Who Is The CHEESIEST Character In Super Smash Bros. Ultimate?

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[@VarsIII]

~SPONSOR~ G2A is having a major spring sale right now! If you're in the market for cheaper prices for games/software/gift cards check their store out right now! www.g2a.com/spring-sale

[@JoeBidenOfficial]

i dont think you should buy keys for indie games. big games and gift cards and subscriptions yeah absolutely

[@Veecy]

It should be known that sites like G2A are usually selling you stolen keys

[@cherrypepsicola7813]

You can tell a cloud main made this list but he did say there was a lot of personal bias and that this wasn’t a definitive list

[@Mystprism]

Saying Cloud is less cheesy than Roy is absolutely insane. I would put Cloud 4th or 5th tier of cheese. Blade beam, run away charge limit, back air, insanely fast move that does like 23% (cross slash), and a frame 7 oos up b. Cloud is a full kit of cheese, with a few non-cheese moves thrown in.

[@magnum567134]

All of those up B's designed like that are cheese

[@magnum567134]

16:50...and...he just said Aether is honest😒

[@riotron1026]

Eh…as much as I’m not a fan of the character, Cloud to me feels like more of a well rounded higher tier character than a cheese one. Has tools for most situations but (at least to me) mostly never really feels like you get killed out of nowhere and there was nothing you could do about it. Roy on the other hand, Side B and Jab + Bair near ledge can kill at stupidly low percents and given the speed he has to rushdown and pressure…yeah feels like straight up robbery.

[@aronspiker72]

There's a difference between cheesing and just being really good. None of his kit really breaks the rules of the game in the same way that, say, Diddy's banana, or Peach's float cancel ignore specific limitations of the game itself, while his unorthodox tools like limit are honestly pretty mid in ultimate, while his up b doesn't have any onstage killpower like say Ike; the spike hit box is actually very unreliable offstage compared to Chrom; and is more punishable than GW up B if you shield it.

[@pothos489]

you’re confusing “strong” with “cheesy”. a 23% side b is strong but not cheesy. a side b that kills at like 50% at ledge is cheesy

[@mylorddio8272]

Complaining about the Pits* Neve mentioned Clouds BS Cheesey Biar.

[@anigodzapex9384]

The amount of Cope is not fathomable. Mentions Electroshock arm as cheese, and says the Character with Limit Attacks has no Cheese. You cant Combo into Finishing Touch, wich makes it not Cheese. You cant Combo into Electroshock Arm either!

[@Kingambit7]

​@@anigodzapex9384Erm acshually there is roll get up side-B

[@anigodzapex9384]

@@Kingambit7 FAIR!

[@lasercraft32]

BREAKING NEWS: Local Cloud Main angry because Pit's Guardian Orbitars counter overpowered back air! XD

[@searchethan8603]

@@Kingambit7 underdogs fan mentioned 🙏

[@bemiatto67]

Lmaooo that Cloud bias is INSANE

[@Matanumi]

Bruh back air alone is a materia of cheese

[@Simon-Sax]

This is a clown if he doesnt think Cloud is not much of a cheeser

[@AGuy-0751]

He's a cloud main

[@1250Axel]

Hahahaha he always do this. But I don't mind, i would do the same hahaha

[@vocalidgoku]

Cloud requires strong fundamentals 🤷

[@danielferrieri7434]

Mario: American Cheese Link: Shredded Cheese Sonic: Swiss Cheese Donkey Kong: Moldy Cheese Bowser: Melted Cheese Ice Climbers: Frozen Cheese Hero: Cheese Sticks

[@STONKS_MemeMan]

Keep going. I want you to reach Hero.

[@BigFroa]

Frozen Cheese X 2

[@hoohah5067]

Who's grilled cheese

[@Knivess0]

​@@hoohah5067Incin

[@brawlnut8543]

Peach: cheese cake Pac man: cheese ball Bayonetta: chesse curl Ridley: cheese bite Cap'n falcon: goat cheese Mega man : process cheese The miis: milk cheese Min min: concentrated chesse Steve: cottage cheese

[@thepigeonman_]

Min Min is the definition of cheese

[@june9914]

I think her name’s definition is noodle

[@brawlnut8543]

@@june9914 if so, she's cheese noodles

[@Mr_Game-and-Watch]

Very biased to cloud

[@xmalin1]

Putting cloud 2nd is wild lmao

[@callmekanda5662]

bro i been seeing every comment abt cloud and its made me not interested in watching the video cus ik bros takes r gonna be ass but HE THINKS HES THE 2ND MOST HONEST CHARACTER???? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@infernate4067]

Honestly the Pit/Dark Pit take was pretty bad. Their side b really isn't good to throw out unless you're in niche situations where you can ledge cancel if you miss. And their down b might seem pretty broken but no one talks about how it shrinks extremely fast so you can only throw it out for an immediate hit. It also gets beat out by MOST upairs in the game because of this. You play this character knowing that the only way for you to do things is to condition for DI In so you can get Dthrow/Dtilt into bair at ledge or their recovery is bad and you hit them with Dsmash

[@j.ovinnn]

Yea that take is terrible idk what he was on with that. Plus they actually need it. Pits air speed and fall speed is so bad that without it pit would be one of the easiest characters the game to juggle. Plus u can’t land with down b because you’ll just get grabbed so you pretty much have to go to ledge and get ledge trapped. And dark pit side b is kinda of cheesy if you know your opponent is gonna land with a move or throw something out in the corner but if you whiff your opponent has infinite time to punish you. Plus this characters combo game is pretty mid d throw down air into up/ nair is pretty much it.

[@packun_jonk3276]

bruh you cant put link in tier 3 because of his nair and then put cloud as an honest character when he has that bair (and fair and nair). Not to mention any of the setups or other crazy moves he has

[@elitecombine5373]

Very good point.

[@PALMA06]

as soon as i got the Cloud section I knew this man was a professional yapper

[@KingCoreyFTW]

banjo cheesier than incin is insanity

[@android4754]

True outside of wonderwing invin and breegull blaster being weird (though not any weirder than mega man lemons) they have nothing cheesey. They should be in lying every so often or jaywalking. Most of the time they just try to win neutral. They can rob you but that is not the plan 90 percent of the time. Incin is almost entirely cheese. Their win con and game plan is not even honest.

[@TheyCallMeIce]

Yeah nah I'm going to have to disagree because Incineroar has his specials which, I admit, are BS, but I'd also consider Wondering ALONE to be cheesier than all of Incin. Plus he has dthrow which guarantees a followup because of how short the bury is (which means you can't mix up your mashing), uptilt is way too quick AND way too strong, dair is way too big and I mean, half of his moves in general feel like they are. And let's not talk about WW, itself. It has a HUGE hitbox, full body invincibility, it lingers on ledge, and it MURDERS.

[@bozomechanics2531]

@@TheyCallMeIce Side b will kill at like, 30. Wonderwing will just get shielded. Command grab moves are so gay

[@1tresequis]

incinity

[@11Natrium]

The least biased Cloud main

[@Kramburger11]

Cloud is an honest character that also has a lot of cheese. I feel like this tier list is trying to be two things at once. Cheese and dishonest gameplay aren't the same thing.

[@Kramburger11]

I'm an Ike main, and I agree that he's an honest fighter, but he also has a lot of cheese potential with Up B spikes at low percent (plus it has super armor), and neutral B two-frames, for example.

[@legatronsquatasaurus7831]

@TreyMM-qz4wga move that forces jumps out of characters recovering high is a wasted slot if it doesn’t two frame? Even if it does like 7% with enough knock back to gimp bad recoveries and has a huge hitbox? And can be used to stall recovery in the air?

[@HerMajestyVelvet]

Joker top of the list that man is the entire cheese wheel

[@tumultoustortellini]

Once you understand how to fight him, what you see is what you get, honestly. Arsene can be annoying, but at this point in the meta, he's not really that insane. Bair, side-b and arsene counter can all be cheesy, but he's not the worst I've ever seen.

[@Newbmann]

The perfect tier list for april.

[@Ai-jr4ou]

In most cases Pit D-special is laggy enough for you to punish them, and every up-air can hit them out of it just space better since the feet are vulnerable even at the very start of the move. The only reason you might see a Pit punish someone after Orbitars break is because if it does enough damage to break orbitars it is likely a smash attack (or something like Bowser Bair) so the move is innately laggy. If you are grounded, which you should not be using Obitars grounded unless reflecting, then you can be + on block from a good amount of tilts but since it is not an actual shield you can't cancel it so for a true punish you need to be at least +4 and point black for Jab 1. Also player diff if you get caught with bad DI on electroshock arm not like it is some frame 10 kill option even point blank it takes 18 frames and is very clear what move is coming, as well as a decent amount of hitstop as well. 11:02, to shorten the above response. Because it is not an aerial shield, you can't cancel out of it, it is not frame one, you can't roll/airdoge (since air shield) out of it, has different and lower damage thresholds to break, takes more than 11 frames to put down, and has no parry window. In exchange it reflects shit, can be used in the air, and you are not stunned for 5 seconds when it breaks.

[@eanderson9599]

Every single one of my characters is in the cheesiest tier, what does this say about me as a human

[@666blaziken]

You really enjoy the goofy Nintendo aspect to smash bros, not a bad thing at all

[@unoriginalname6604]

21:45 You can literally say the same thing about Banjo and his Wonderwing move, but he's two tiers cheesier than Link for some reason. Wonderwing makes me wanna tear my hair out, but the rest of Banjo's moveset is pretty honest.

[@MorrowMoon_thenightwing]

Ridley has to play basically entiely honest, plasma breathe is like the only unfair thing he has

[@epicmaster46]

Alternate title: Cloud main whining about people calling Cloud cheesy for 39 minutes

[@jroz6640]

Imagine thinking Boweser isn't the cheesiest characters in the game. Heaviest character, but one of the fastest, one of the best jumps, has tough guy armor, has invincibility in some of his moves. Total cheese

[@paulerichson]

I'm calling it. Cloud is in the honest tier to get people to comment on how stupid that cloud is honest but literally the most honest fighting game character of all time Ryu in the teir right below the cheesest? Well gg on playing the algorithm. 19:57

[@lasercraft32]

When you put Cloud (with his Limit Break, and overly generous back air) above Captain Falcon, one of the most honest characters in the game. 💀 And Mega Man consists of 99% cheese. Its just projectiles and little pellets _constantly._ He deserves to be lower.

[@pullsane]

I still haven't recovered from the fact that my entire high-school friend group GENUINLY called me cheap and cheesy because I was a lucina / marth OTP back in the day of Smash 4 and kept doing so in ultimate years later. "You just win because of your character" The worst offender mained Jigglypuff in 4 and Byleth in ultimate Is it really so hard to just say GG when you get curbstomped so hard you need Johns? ESPECIALY WHEN YOU PLAY UBER CHEESE CHARACTERS??

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I mean Puff vs Martcina sounds like a not ideal matchup for Puff.

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 As someone who used to play this mu a lot, you'd think so, but not really. Lucina has lower dmg, and jigglypuff essentially gets to choose their interactions w/ lucina at all times. I can theoretically smack them for free, but they have a more potent toolkit

[@pullsane]

@@tumultoustortellini Absolutly agree. In addition Puffs NAir and BAir are so disguting to fight against with lucina. With marth due to the increased threath bubble they are more manageable but that friend is not some random ass newb, we both have played this game excessivly since melee so he know to use that against me and perma stick to my face.

[@Light50977]

Huh Sora?? My guy they created an entire Twitter account for him because no one wins with him lmao What's his cheese here? Being floaty and having a great nair?

[@666blaziken]

And spammy projectiles

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

By cheese you mean inconsistent (or what should be) win cons, basically how frustrating are the character's win con without real effort

[@absolanimations9276]

not the cloud bias lmaooo

[@WarningStrangerDanger]

>Ness Yo-Yo at ledge "GGs, shake my hand."

[@unidentified4122]

I always knew I mained a hard working character 😌 whats a little arsene dishonesty here and there

[@ZTLGsmashultimate436]

Nah your character is cheesy

[@TheyCallMeIce]

Nah. Arsene is a crutch that Joker does NOT NEED, and on top of that you get it waaaaay too easily and frequently. You've got it like 50% of the match on a bad day.

[@ZTLGsmashultimate436]

@@TheyCallMeIce Finally someone who has the same thought process when it comes to joker being an honest character

[@derrickdavis3888]

22:59 Me personally I wouldn’t take that far level of disrespect! I don’t mind that most people get upset about getting gimmicks against Luigi’s up-special, down-special, z-air and his neutral special. The only upset is that while they’re trying to edgeguard him is very optimally but more risk effectively because his exploited recovery is very limited as if he is too low or too far from the stage. His Super Jump Punch comes out in Frame 8 because it’s fast but react-able when he only has two variations during the move, It’s weak when he’s not close enough to them it just very weak and easily to get punished, What’s more embarrassing that if Luigi hits you the sour spot from the Super Jump Punch I don’t deserve myself to gimmick someone when they aren’t aware of it while they’re off stage, It’s best idea is to never challenge him if anyone mains a fighter without a counter. It’s not my fault that if anyone gets hit by that it’s your fault because you only just left yourself wide open because most players use their own instincts to react not everyone has the good instincts to react to be able to punish him it’s because they haven’t mastered to learn to counter-pick -stage matchup against any fighter’s even or disadvantage matchups. What’s more important that you don’t want to underestimate a good Luigi players are very strong potentially against players who hold at tech chase if you try tech or don’t tech you’re dead, If Luigi stands still and waits for the right moment for you to make a single misinput if you dare try to use get-up attack, most importantly don’t get too aggressive against Luigi he don’t play with them!

[@frealish6622]

Love the longer podcast type format. U have a nice voice

[@dreamnail]

How tf is plant at the bottom but CLOUD and JOKER are at the top

[@AshenDemon]

Element of surprise and cheese are NOT the same. No one is surprised when Kazuya fishes for 0tds and when he kills you from one combo but are you going to say he's not cheesy now.

[@Wildestleaf]

I feel like everyone has their own definition of cheese. I think the next smash game should do something about spamming the same move like back airs over and over again. Making it stale isn't enough. I personally think the more you use the same moves, (hit or miss) the game should add more start up frames. They already do it with roll spamming. But that just me.

[@grimsdol4665]

I think ranking cheese depends on 2 things, one what u count as cheese, for me it's effort vs reward or something that exploits another person's weakness in a brain dead way So like a dk Cargo throw onto a stage tech or you do die at like 50% (or get thrown under the stage) or like Mario's flood to push people recovering off the ledge

[@SamiJ1508]

Bowsercide plus tough guy armor. You were right at first

[@tumultoustortellini]

Honestly all of his specials, plus nair - bair at 80, plus the fact he's faster than mario

[@mrmediocre848]

Oh, so Fox and Falco having confirms and combos for days is balanced out by their weaknesses, whereas Ganondorf is more cheesy because he can kill you early off of hard reads? Sure, let's ignore his obvious weaknesses that eclipse the Spacies.

[@CipherKnighto]

I like TCNick’s a bit more. Also funnier

[@electricssb]

Please do why no one plays Lucas. He’s my main and you promised to make a video on him last year.

[@fortes_05]

Putting ridley that low is insane

[@TheDemonChara]

You don't know how much it pained me when you said Lucas and Ness are friends... Just to say it, they don't even know each other lol.

[@elitecombine5373]

Watching this makes me want to so a video of my own.

[@sa-x4213]

FINALLY , someone looks at guardian orbitals as part of pits best moves and that’s not “honest” , being able to skip for example corrins juggle game it’s NOT honest

[@ZackH1]

just an fyi the video is only viewable in 360p 🙏 not sure if this is just on my end

[@abcrasshadow9341]

You were probably just early :)

[@ZackH1]

@@abcrasshadow9341 you're probably right LOL that makes so much sense

[@daddysmashgaming6461]

As a Mii Swordfighter main, I can verify we literally *have* to be somewhat cheesy. Granted, it’s highly skilled and precise cheese that I would consider “honest” and fair (chakram is one of the hardest projectiles to master, but one of the best in the game) but we kinda have to count on our opponents not being ready for it. Playing the character successfully at a competitive level 100% relies on outsmarting your opponents and forcing mistakes to create openings, as opposed to more conventional win conditions. So, I will accept our placement on the low end. Plus, we have cheese with Skyward Slash Dash having instant KO potential on the entire cast at 0%, lmao. Great video.

[@mir8651]

It's not fair because no one plays your character lol

[@daddysmashgaming6461]

@@mir8651 hey now, it’s not my fault people fail the matchup check 🥹

[@HenryZhoupokemon]

Let’s be honest like 80 of the roster has cheese of some sort

[@riotron1026]

Thank you! I’ve always said that the Shotos & Terry are cheese ball characters. The way they play forces you to have to play very precisely and very cautiously otherwise you get cheesed out by their toddler level difficulty kill confirms.

[@ronersteel659]

Not sure why every comment here is just saying Cloud bias when you literally put it at the start of the video. I am curious though, why is Mythra/Pyra two tiers cheesier than Cloud for having busted neutral/having generous frame data when Cloud has both of these traits to a very similar degree?

[@QenaitheCustodianGuard]

Kazuya is very honest tbh.

[@beau1207]

EWGF makes him the cheesiest character to ever exist

[@theinsaneone3415]

Wtf was the banjo placement

[@patricklynch4074]

I disagree with a LOT of placements here Particularly cloud lmao

[@AmmojerseyRTA]

Going to Japan??!? Are you going to be participating in any tournaments?

[@master_of_krynn]

As a Cloud main, yeah no, he's abit more cheesy than that.

[@jakk2631]

Dam all my mains are on lowers parts of the chess guss I'm. Just carried by chess

[@the-building-man]

Where the hell is Samus and DSamus?????

[@SkippyIsFunny]

It's at 34:05

[@kaito2220]

If only some of Cloud's moves had a semblance of endlag to them and/or he doesn't just have limit moves 3-4 times a stock, he ain't honest lol Also gordo is trash, git gud m8

[@jiyu3027]

Limit is all kinds of cheesy along with bair and fair bro come on lol even dash attack at ledge

[@PrinceSamTV]

Fucking Banjo spamming Neutral B, Side B, and side smash 🙄

[@pamoon_]

limit is velveeta sometimes what are you talking about

[@alexnoren6141]

Mash = honest

[@empanothing]

Luigi

[@lbesavant]

Every character is cheesy. It’s called a character strength.

[@annoyedhitsuji2865]

very interesting video

[@wftghw]

Super fair list, it's a tough line to draw bit I think you've done a good job!

[@Lopster_Real]

today i will respectfully disagree and like the video

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

interesting cheese tier list. very cheesy.

[@concerned9890]

These comments are full of haters lol

[@Boilerguydave]

The thumbnail should read, “in ultimate”. Smash is melee, the real one. Ultimate is the game that dies when the new one comes out.

[@nikkobird590]

@@Boilerguydave smash is smash no matter what.

[@daddysmashgaming6461]

Hey I noticed you actually don’t have a video on “why no one plays Mii Swordfighter”, as they are one of the least played characters in the game. I would volunteer as tribute to help with that one. 👀

[@slippythepenguin1561]

Putting cloud in lower than citrin is crazy

[@l.n.3372]

Citrin?

[@BootyBunBandit]

@@l.n.3372Citrine is ganondorf

[@slippythepenguin1561]

@@l.n.3372 oop corrin

[@benross9174]

Super main bias

[@l.n.3372]

@@slippythepenguin1561 ok that makes more sense xD tbh I do think it's weird that people believe Corrin is better (or has more cheese) than Cloud. with limit, Cloud is better, and Cloud moves faster on the ground, too. both have good aerials but the ground speed and limit, IMO, make Cloud better than Corrin.

[@kyotojabami2508]

Cloud bias is wild here 😂

[@neondouble_]

Dark Pit being cheesier than Cloud's Limit Break is utterly insane. I get guardian orbiters, but if you wait them out they're punishable. Limit just makes Cloud have insane damage, more speed, and MAKES HIS RECOVERY LESS PUNISHABLE! Cloud is a cheeselord you trippin' for that

[@CookieGal-]

Maybe the most insanely biased and/or blind Cloud main opinion I have ever seen to say *Cloud* has no cheese.

[@SkillTissuGaming]

Cloud bias 100% he has stolen candy at 7 eleven

[@sspectre8217]

There are mains that are honest about being very cheesy and then there’s Cloud mains…

[@smashdriven1640]

This is the first time I’ve heard anyone call Palutena honest in any sense.

[@MercenarySmash]

She’s a fundamental character at the end of the day. Sure, her moves are better than most of the cast’s, but she has to rely on solid neutral to win at a high level. She has no true 0 to deaths, no kill confirms, and an extremely predictable neutral with little mixup available. That’s why she’s honest.

[@grimsdol4665]

She's just really good but that doesn't really make her cheesy, it's not like her moves have a stupid hitbox or frame data or gimmick (except for the I frames on 2 of her attacks)

[@MichaelGreen-vk5xq]

Especially since they patched out her really cheesy unfair stuff like her prepatch nair which hit way too many times and comboed for far too long and too easily.

[@UltraThroatKick]

@@MichaelGreen-vk5xq It actually combos better now, before it was a solid kill move and edguarded way way better. It was basically the move you could use for everything.

[@MichaelGreen-vk5xq]

@@UltraThroatKick it definitely doesn't combo better now lmfao look up base game palutena nair or palutena washing machine... it might work slightly better at low percent but it falls off like crazy at like 60%.

[@MemorialClamp40]

Saying Cloud is one of the most honest characters in the game is WILD

[@kylescheer9454]

You did not cook with this one bro ngl

[@abcrasshadow9341]

Brawler should be one tier worse in steals candy from 7-eleven same with mario, they are too close to Mr. Mishima in kill potential for my liking, not to talk about cape the definition of cheese IMO and suplex (you know the one) from brawler.

[@randomguy8107]

Corrin’s Fsmash charge hitbox makes her a jaywalker imo

[@l.n.3372]

not sure why, but the words on the tiers are a little blurry; I cannot read what each tier says at the end.

[@funniloneliboi]

22:57 The transition from “Lucina, you’re up here. I don’t think anyone will disagree.” to “Luigi, f*ck you.” is just hilarious

[@KrossTheManJ]

Fox is NOT HONEST.

[@chrisouellet6398]

This is so biased

[@sukmykrok3388]

I have never stolen candy from a 7-11... ...I stole the whole 7-11.

[@AshenDemon]

do you by any chance play FP2?

[@sukmykrok3388]

@@AshenDemon FP2? What is that?

[@npc_blob1609]

As a Falco secondary, his racist aerials (as NickC puts it) alone make him cheesy. Wall-jump Nair to reversal people standing too close to ledge and Fair mixups on shield including a knowledge check landing hitbox.

[@Spyder-Marth]

Sorry but all Clouds do is spam back air than call themselves good. I picked that character up for a week and got almost max GSP in a day. He's broken. I just spam Bair at ledge and people get hit by that or can't punish it if they block OR if I miss. Broken character. He's top 15-20 for a reason.

[@mohammadalhusaini810]

Beating little timmy on elite smash doesn’t make a character broken or make you good my guy

[@xanander4693]

@@mohammadalhusaini810he’s right tho. Limit sometimes auto wins games for cloud

[@kevcopo]

Never seen Vars SO mad at characters before 😂 bro is usually so professional and well spoken and today he is like “nah f*ck you you’re down here”

[@wishtyme]

Pokemon trainers has THREE characters, does not matter how good they are or if they have cheese, Lucarios ability is straight up cheese, just existing makes it the cheesiest tier, mega man is the cheese man, he's just projectile sonic, cloud has limit and back air, and incineroar's gameplan revolves around cheese. Sephiroth at a low and mid level is way more cheesier then you might expect. other then that i think that this list is pretty good.

[@someaccount5200]

I'd say Young Link's range sets back a lot of his cheese potential a long with having a lot of weird kill setups

[@nextos]

I stopped the video when you put cloud at completely honest. Good day to you sir.

[@nejikuchiki_7047]

I've climbers don't belong there. Just like heavys, that's all they have. Getting chain grabbed by them doesn't feel bad right now cuz of the limited amount of ppl who can consistently do it. But getting grabbed by somebody like kazuya... we all know. Also, inkling is too low. They never really lost anything except how long u get burrowed at"0"%. They still have everything that made them annoying at the start.

[@crabraveclan4645]

I like Brie personally

[@natejohnson1083]

I skipped to like 2/3ds of the way through this video, and i saw my main, dark pit, placed one scum unit further than pit and now im so excited to hear your take haha :) Edit: yeah the electroshock is so solid. Also, i'll point out that light pit has those arrows. For me, that seems to counteract electroshock and i probably would have put them in the same tier but i see ur point too. Its all about the emphasis...

[@Valderami]

Bro Incin is literally nothing BUT Cheese and gimmicks all the way through, gap closing armored side b, frame fucking 3 counter with a longer active duration than endlag that doesnt expend its buff when hitting shield (unlike heros buffs for example) despite getting value in the form of extra shield stun, which could lead into a TRUE shield break with neutral b. There is not a single honest thing about incineroar at all

[@SharKing319]

There's already a lot of comments tearing into the Cloud bias here, and I'll throw my own two cents into that. Between his infamous bair and that huge fair of his also being practically unpunishable on shield (both moves being done with a *_comically gigantic and heavy sword,_* I might add), Cloud is easily one of the goofiest examples of landing lag being a foreign concept in Ultimate and why that's a bad thing. Also, fuck G2A.

[@toadboy4]

I guess I don’t use that many cheesy characters, I use Chrom & Lucina a lot & neither of them are cheesy, Corrin is in a non-cheesy tier as well, and then we follow to Bayonetta, Byleth, & Aegis being middle of the road characters with King K. Rool being the cheesiest character I use

[@Mattroid99]

We kinda don't know the definition of cheese I suppose I guess I'll just talk about my main but there is no universe where you you tell me DDD is cheesier than DK, Bowser and Incineroar (Characters that when they touch you you EXPLODE) with a straight face. I agree that the character relies on cheese and gimmicks but that's because he's awful, not because his cheese is actually good, which is why most good DDDs are actually playing a lot of fundamentals intead of risk-reward the videogame. "Spam gordo for days and hope people fall into his traps"? Are we only talking about Elite Smash or actually competent players?