WHO IS THE MOST ________ IN SMASH? (ft. Marss, ESAM & WaDi)

Who is the most BROKEN Smash character? Who made the biggest comeback? Who is the class clown? These are all important superlatives relating to Smash characters, and who better to assign them to our SMASH PROS? Are there any we missed out on? Let us know!
► Don't forget to subscribe to our channel: bit.ly/2RLov5Q
► HoldForward on Twitter: / pandaglobal
► Find more Panda on our website: panda.gg
► Find other fans on Reddit: / pandaglobal
► Get the best Panda clips on TikTok: / pandaglobal
Panda Partners: GEICO, HyperX, Meta Threads, ZOWIE by BenQ
Panda Players: Anna Cramling, Coney, ESAM, Faye Mata, HookGangGod, iBDW, Jiyuna, KitanaPrime, Kizzie Kay, Little Z, MarlinPie, Marss, Plup, Punk, RayC, Saint Cola, Simply, SmallAnt, WaDi
Panda Games: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, Guilty Gear Strive, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Street Fighter V, FGC, Anime Fighters, Chess, Speedrunning, Dragon Ball FighterZ
Check out these other channels here!
► / pandaglobal
► / pandafightinggames
► / thepgstats
► / marss007
► / iaintjwong
► / kizziekay310
► / punkdagod
► / animeilluminati
► / hookganggod
► / wadirob
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate on the Nintendo Switch brings together everyone’s favorite Nintendo characters such as Mario (Super Mario Bros.), Link (The Legend of Zelda), Samus (Metroid), and Pikachu (Pokemon) in one of the most popular fighting games ever made! The series is further set apart by including a selection of 3rd party video game characters from different franchises such as Persona’s Joker, Street Fighter’s Ryu, Final Fantasy VII’s Cloud and Sephiroth, and Sega’s Sonic The Hedgehog. Most recently the game has been updated to Version 13.0 where Kingdom Heart’s Sora has been added as DLC to the game!
With top rosters in games such as Smash Brothers and Street Fighter, heavy-hitting influencers on Twitch and KZbin, and our own unique hardware offerings on our shop - Panda is just built different.
#ESAM #Marss #WaDi #Panda #PandaGlobal

[@6skybeam914]

"metaknight has 1 thing" "dash attack or grab" thank u wadi

[@conmartys2749]

I’m dying

[@manelneedsaname1773]

There are three types of people in this world, those who know how yo count and those who don't

[@lylelylecrocodile2538]

As a meta knight main I would also include side b well at least for me

[@bhoppyy6458]

@@lylelylecrocodile2538 side b in neutral?

[@lylelylecrocodile2538]

@@bhoppyy6458 what do you mean I'm not good with smash terms

[@whaloob]

“Fire emblem characters have the power of anime on their side, Little Mac lives in New York” sent me Also I feel like Zackray’s played enough Joker to be called “the 2nd best Joker”

[@dspd0140]

Zackray is the best Joker. Leo is focusing on Byleth-Aegis and Joker is only a Min Min counterpick. His Joker can't possibly be better or as good as Zackray's when Byleth is his main.

[@madmoxxi7397]

@@dspd0140 you say that but Zackray plays joker Spargo plays pythra Spargo’s pythra beat zackray’s joker Leo later beat zackray’s joker with pythra and spargo’s pythra with joker

[@hym9733]

@@dspd0140 Best Joker now, for sure. But I think if you compare 2019-early 2020 Leo's Joker to Zackray's Joker, Leo's is undeniably better.

[@Latias38]

@@hym9733 Zackray may be the best dedicated Joker so to speak (yes I know Zackray plays alot of characters), but Leo is just the better player that happens to have a Joker as of this moment. While I do agree that Leos Joker in its prime > Zackrays current day Joker, id say that Zackrays Joker > Leos current day Joker. Leo is putting in all of his time and effort on Byleth and trying to practice Pythra

[@dspd0140]

@@madmoxxi7397 Zackray lacked MU experience back then and Leo knows Sparg0 and the matchup better. Anyway, in his last video Leo said that he wouldn't even use Joker against Min Min now since his Aegis leveled up because Byleth-Joker is too hard.

[@gurasbutt2033]

We just going to ignore that Marss has boxes full of beans?

[@chorizord6974]

You don't have one?

[@Lucas-sl6df]

Yes

[@micahbarrus8406]

"They have anime on their side. Little Mac lives in NEW YORK". Killed me.

[@harperp2565]

an interesting video would be getting them to reduce the roster to around 20-40 characters, since sakurai had that interview saying the next smash game would most likely have less characters, if it even happened.

[@MK-bi1hj]

I doubt smash 6 or whatever has 20-40 characters. I'd say like 50-60 realistically. What Sakurai did say was that smash 6 wouldn't have every single character return (so maybe say byebye to joker, sora, piranha plant etc). It reality, smash 6 could have more characters than ultimate, just with more newcomers and some ips missing.

[@colingamer5073]

@@MK-bi1hj Unless those were just random characters, it wouldn’t make sense for them to remove Joker or Sora, especially Sora. The fact Sora WON smash ballot, it just wouldn’t make sense.

[@lifetake3103]

@@colingamer5073 I mean it makes complete sense from a licensing perspective. I have zero expectation that sora is licensed to nintendo for the next smash game

[@stereng]

This aged well

[@bandit8891]

@@stereng What?

[@shane199817]

Ganon definitely needs a rework. For how important of a character he is in LoZ its a shame he's just a Falcon clone and not even good. At least if he had a different move set it would be interesting even if he still wasn't great. While someone like Little Mac I think does need some changes/fixes like his recovery, overall his kit makes sense since he's a boxer

[@thomascunningham7164]

I agree with that, Gannon di serves it, while you’ve at it rework Zelda too because her kit will never be good in a single smash game

[@nahte123456]

I get everyone wants a Ganon rework, but I want you to consider. In LoZ Ganon fights normally either have projectile spam or a ton of burst options. He'd make Banjo look interesting.

[@foytsgarage2085]

Honestly I think the most minimal change they could atleast give gannon would be to allow him to up B after he uses side B off stage. It would dramatically improve his recovery and Honestly probably bump him up to like mid tier.

[@Endershock1678]

I'd argue Mac doesn't make sense because he is a boxer, but his feel is entirely different than punch out, where his precision, wit, and speed were emphasized over strength or power.

[@ShinyKelp]

How are you gonna talk about the character that dropped the most and not even mention Inkling. Day 1 everyone thought they were the best in the game, and now even a few buffs aren't enough to encourage anybody to pick them up.

[@oliverorchard6774]

Yeah I 100% agree.

[@thebakery3802]

Inkling dropped so hard they forgot she existed lmao

[@oliverorchard6774]

I think the character that fell off the most was Inkling. While arguably still being a good character, I think everyone in the first year of Ultimate's release thought Inkling was broken due to the paint causing you to take more damage. However, people overtime did find ways around the paint by exploiting the refilling of the paint for instance and as such, people don't really talk a lot about the character anymore.

[@whiskoo9941]

character fell off because every other top tier found some crazy gimmick that killed absurdly early or did 0-70, meanwhile inkling got nerfed

[@survivorofthecurse717]

It's a massive shame tbh. Also, Splatoon 3 looks nice

[@Lunar1314_]

@@survivorofthecurse717 fellow splatoon fan 🍷

[@Andres183_]

i was thinkin k rool tbh, idr beginning of smash too well but i feel like i saw him a ton more then

[@survivorofthecurse717]

There's a difference between a character being good, but falling off like inkling, and then someone not knowing the mu. Also, I can see why some people called it "the falcon treatment." It's the closest we have to a legitimate rework

[@TehDompie]

It's so funny how ESAM and WaDi are almost complete opposites with their approach to how they think about the game and improving and everything like that. Marss isn't in the middle but since he makes fun of everyone it works out for the chemistry. Seriously when is the panda podcast

[@Jackaljkljkl]

WaDi didn't even own a Switch at one point

[@Hugo_Prolovski]

put plup in there too

[@poeticdavide]

This was literally a podcast

[@AnthanKrufix]

2:20 *ESAM:* _Uses numeric notation_ *Marss:* _Visible confusion_

[@joey5745]

Panda y’all should these three compete in different Speedrun Races. • Beat Classic with 5 characters, • Exceed X amount of Meters in Home Run contest with 5 characters, • Race to beat Galeem in World of Light • Get under 2 mins with 5 characters in 100 man mob smash, • Defeat all 83 characters in All Star mode,

[@auraboros4239]

Yeah Lucario needs his moves redesigned, I like how they did him in Project M. I wish he had longer combo strings.

[@marshtomp8]

If you want a good Lucario look no further than Pokemon Unite. He's been tip top tier despite being nerfed every patch.

[@randomizedbeing9955]

Just give it bone rush and close combat and then it's top tier :)

[@randomizedbeing9955]

@@marshtomp8 I play the game and mained Lucario ever since I could get it (not very long ago) Plenty of online matches and still haven't lost yet, unite Lucario would dominate smash

[@auraboros4239]

@@randomizedbeing9955 Yeah bone rush would be cool for lucario in smash, it would give him more range like a swordie. And close combat could be like a multi hit jab kind of like dancing blade.

[@Hugo_Prolovski]

they should just release project + officially with better graphics.

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

12:11 Personally I'd say Game & Watch. Character has been mediocre at best since Melee, and at the beginning of Ultimate people were saying he was mid tier until Maister came along and went from unranked PGRU season 1 to #6 PGRU season 2.

[@heartbreaker2485]

As a meta knight main I can confirm dash attack or grab is the same thing

[@coneg2714]

Honestly right now I think you could argue Byleth as a face solely for, as ESAM said, that's Leo's actual main right now. Causes the most tier list placement discussion, caused the biggest uproar during the DLC reveals for being another Fire Emblem character, and we've had almost a whole year now of them winning offline events.

[@gloubiboulgathefirst5784]

Yep he certainly made waves and not only on release

[@carlbrandon4603]

My only problem with going based on what Leo’s main is smash four, there was a clear number one player of smash four and his mains aren’t the face of ultimate you know

[@coneg2714]

@@carlbrandon4603 I think Ultimate not ending up like Smash 4 makes it hard to compare. I definitely would've considered Diddy and/or Sheik the face of that game, and then Bayo broke it right at the end of its life to scar everyone. Sora didn't do that for Ultimate, and probably won't long term. Pyra/Mythra are the closest to that conversation of late game DLC defining the meta and even then it's debated where they are on Top 5. So in the meantime, might as well just go with Leo's main for the fun of it.

[@mkale1749]

I love the box of stuff behind Marss that says “beans” in big ass letters

[@tumultoustortellini]

Honestly the most disappointing part about this game is that, despite taking more feedback from the fanbase, they never redesigned a single character unless they could do it with only changing frame, knockback and knockback angles. MK, Lucario, Sonic, Samus, Ganon, and dr. Mario could all do with some reworks

[@lifetake3103]

Ganon got the pseudo rework going from 4 to ultimate with his smash attacks, but thats the largest rework we have ever seen from the game series as a whole which is kinda nutty.

[@blackball2223]

Dr. Mario just needs to be a skin, what they should do for Mario is make his Up Smash the Super Jump, his Neutral Air the Spin Jump, his Down Air can be the stomp, his recovery should be the Wing Cap, Final Smash should be Mario using Cappy on the T-Rex, and then Mario should have half his regular speed, but then half of Dr. Mario's damage and knockback output

[@revengeoftheshreks1860]

Nah samus’s moveset perfectly encapsulates the feeling of the Metroid games in my opinion. She may not be fun to play against but in my opinion she has a cool moveset that is fun to use and watch in the right hands

[@Lead.By.Example]

Ok you have to be realistic lol they’re not just going to completely rework characters movesets because competitive players think they’re “bad”. Yeah it’d be cool if they made dr Mario faster, better combo potential and shit but that’s just not gonna happen lol

[@DaRealJake]

@@blackball2223 no lol

[@im_Spade_]

16:55 Exactly what WaDi said is exactly why I love ultimate so fucking much. This game, despite it's glaring issues, is fucking AMAZING and is easily the best smash game since Melee hands down. ❤️

[@FancyPotatOS]

Most in need of a rework: Sonic. I mean, he has two moves which are visually the same (and in general, doesn't really matter the differences). It feels like they focused more on his speed than any other interesting ability that he could potentially have. Other characters may need a balance change, but they definitely have a decent, diverse moveset.

[@RealityMasterRogue]

I think sonic should get the wisps Put the spring in one of his throws, give him laser and drill as up and side b

[@startic7516]

Most surprising is Pichu, here we have a joke character who literally damages himself and was trash in brawl, but in the beginning of ultimate he was blowing everyone up

[@Extreme11]

No pichu got shit on in brawl…because he wasn’t a character

[@chordalharmony]

Pichu was so bad in brawl they basically didn’t exist Pichu was in Melee btw, not Brawl

[@kaleidoslug7777]

I think Joker is the face of the game for the stated reasons but also because he's the face of the DLC, and this is by far the smash game with the greatest quantity and quality of DLC picks. All of them but Plant and Banjo are decently competitive and almost all of them have been really hype

[@apollo8447]

Also the fact that the games menu and animations are based off of persona 5 makes him just feel so at home compared to every other charactor.

[@scraps7624]

Love seeing these 3 discuss the game

[@erinc5364]

I miss broken pichu. It wasn't fair for him to have that forward tilt but it was hilarious.

[@plantedcabbage]

People thought game and watch was bottom 2, and then maister came and showed us he's insane

[@gabrielkrows488]

Most needing of a rework is def Ganondorf. In smash he's a captain falcon clone but wayyyy worse, plus he never uses any of his actual powers in zelda. In Zelda he can float, throw projectiles, even posess people, and other sorcerors. He can create phantoms, is a skilled swordsman, he can reflect, and even rip an island in half.

[@wonderlandzer0]

I love this video!! The casually passionate atmosphere was nice :)

[@benjaminconway5956]

Kirby is the face of ultimate no question - sakurai’s golden child

[@hambughrr8186]

In terms of "Most deserving of reworks", that superlative has so many correct answers. My personal take is Little Mac because of how much his moveset design spits in the face of platform fighters, but holy FUCK, there is absolutely no denying that Sonic and Ganondorf age worse than milk. I'd also argue for Lucario, Luigi, Kirby, DK, Zelda, (Young/Toon) Link, Meta Knight, Jigglypuff, (Dark) Samus, Ridley, Daisy, Bowser (Jr.) and Aegis. Aegis sounds like a weird choice to rework, but the amount of shortcuts they took regarding her balancing is shockingly high enough to warrant a lot of changes to her gameplay. I'd demote Foresight from an actual mechanic to an aesthetic change regarding Mythra's rolling/air dodge animations, make switching slower both in startup and cooldown, reduce Mythra's raw damage output, weight and range while fully compensating for knockback (she's now as light as Squirtle), and change Pyra's hitboxes so that they deal less damage and knockback on hilts (tippers retain their original power). Pyra's Down Air also gets special mention: to compensate for its disgusting size, it now only spikes if you land a tipper, and said spike is also only active for one frame. You might be wondering "wow WTF happened to Mythra", well I think she's so OP that even when separated from Pyra, she is still a top tier. Stance Change is inherently a difficult archetype to balance, but like... look at how quickly Aegis accumulated her good ass results when she dropped! Update: Added Kirby, Jigglypuff, Dark Samus, Young Link and Toon Link to the list of characters that I think would benefit from reworks.

[@Hugo_Prolovski]

im voting for sonic from a viewer perspective. if i have to watch one more lame ass sonic in top 16 im gonna get depressed

[@Lychem]

Although I agree with most of the characters you said, I don't get what's wrong with Bowser and Bowser Jr to necessitate a rework. Could you explain?

[@hambughrr8186]

@@Lychem Both characters are fine for the most part, but there's a few moveset changes that'll give them that extra touch! For Bowser, he now uses his canon voice, and he no longer has Tough Guy because of how fast he is. His Down Tilt is now the Blazing Tail from Super Mario Odyssey, Forward Smash is now Bowser Punch from Bowser's Inside Story, and Dash Attack is now Shell Roll from Mario Galaxy. NAir is now a belly flop that he uses in the Mario and Luigi games. Neutral B is now Big Fireball/Fire Breath. Pressing B will make him shoot a fireball, but if you hold B instead, he just uses Fire Breath. As for Bowser Jr., Mechakoopa has way less endlag, Grab is now Frame 6 (down from Frame 11), and if you hit him out of the Clown Car with any move that deals knockback and isn't a windbox, he ALWAYS gets his Clown Car back. Forward Tilt, Up Tilt, Down Smash, Up Air, NAir, and Up B "Weapon Swing" will use the Magic Paintbrush instead. These attacks deal magic damage, and the Koopalings will still use their functionally identical Magic Wands instead. Neutral B is now Goop. Bowser Jr. uses his brush to fire a ball of goop that can be angled up or down, and once it hits the floor, it basically leaves a damaging bed of goo on the ground. Direct impacts will deal minor damage that increases over time, but cannot stack with itself, and poisoned foes can get rid of the poison faster by dealing damage to Jr. himself. The Koopalings will cast Goop using their Magic Wands instead, and it uses the following colors based on your Jr. alt: Orange (Jr.), Light Blue (Larry), Red (Roy), Pink (Wendy), Lime Green (Iggy), Black (Morton), Yellow (Lemmy) and Dark Blue (Ludwig). Both characters will receive new Final Smashes. Bowser becomes Fury Bowser, which is basically the Brawl Giga Bowser, but reskinned. Bowser Junior's new Final Smash is now the Airship Armada: you fly into the background and gain a targeting reticle. Press A for a spammable barrage of Bullet Bills, press B for a Banzai Bill that creates a Smart Bomb-style explosion. Only 1 Banzai Bill (explosion) can be on screen.

[@doommustard8818]

The face of this one is Kirby because he's the only one that survived the snap. I don't know who the face of the competitive scene is but the casual scene will always have Kirby.

[@obviouslyanonymous]

It's funny watching this a year later and thinking about how the answer would be Steve for 80% of questions now

[@zifny3035]

It's wild to me that Nintendo saw Ganondorf, one of the scariest and most powerful badasses out there and made him into a worse echo fighter of some dude that drives a car.

[@Jackaljkljkl]

Underestimated: Byleth Suddenly got bad: Pichu Rework needed: Toon Link May cause an upset: Kazuya Best playerbase: Shiek Comeback master: Bowser Biggest letdown: Echo fighters in general Better than expected (in terms of fun, not competitiveness): Hero Ultimate's Fox/Metaknight/Bayo equivalent: Pythra

[@LoliPeeSlurper]

Underestimated: Byleth Suddenly got bad: Inkling Rework needed: Ganondorf May cause an upset: Steve Best playerbase: Peach Comeback master: Joker Biggest letdown: Banjo Better than expected: Mr. G&W Ultimate's Fox/Metaknight/Bayo equivalent: Pyra/Mythra

[@LuigiLonLon]

Jesus, Pyra and Mythra are living rent free in Marss' head

[@marccheroni9971]

I mean... Did you see pyra Flip?

[@IceAnt573]

Marss has been a victim to: Leo's Aegis at Ultimate Summit 3 Cosmos' Aegis at Nairo's Birthday Bash Sparg0 in SWT Pools. Plus, there's DM in his region who is a good Aegis player. I don't blame Marss for this especially when Aegis has a really good matchup on Zero Suit Samus.

[@anzack2551]

@@marccheroni9971 Powercrept by a move that doesn’t exist

[@nevenpatrk9661]

We all know that Rebel's Guard is going to nerfed to the Level of Cloud's Limit if he is in Smash the next game.

[@LiorRonen]

I'd personally give glow up to G&W, people thought he was bottom tier

[@Evan-mt7bc]

I think Link and Dark Samus were the most disappointing characters for me in Ultimate. Link was shown to have a massive visual rework, he got a bunch of new tools, they changed his grab, his bomb, he can pick up 2 arrows, he has his melee boomerang back this is going to be insane how much they are going to change him and it all meant nothing. All but his bomb was so niche and useless you literally never see Link's use the 2 arrows, I find myself wanting for the Gale Boomerang back almost everytime I use it especially with his new bomb, I find myself constantly wanting his Zair to play mid range. All Link got was something to play with in Training mode for 10 minutes before switching to another character. This was going to be the first BIG rework of a Smash character but he almost came out of it more dull and boring and somehow being unchanged despite technically a third of his moveset being changed. Dark Samus probably most of all hurt though. Not only is base Samus' moveset grungy and barely fits Samus in any iteration despite literally feeling like a Smash character in her 2d games Dark Samus is not Samus, like not even close. Dark Samus in their source games has literally no moves that Samus has, characters in Metroid don't even mistake Samus for Dark Samus like it's some Sonic Adventure 2 shit, hell you could even see Dark Samus' moveset in Smash 4 as an assist trophy which had a very faithful moveset using moves that you saw in Prime 2 but in Ultimate the only thing that Dark Samus does in Smash that she does in her base games is 1 of her win screens where she splits into 2. It's kinda magical really how badly they managed to fuck up Dark Samus even deleting the assist trophy just to give Samus 8 more colors. It almost feels insulting to have Dark Samus in the game at all. Dark Samus is probably the only character in Smash that objectively and whole heartedly, I'd rather not have. Every other character for good or bad I'll take but Dark Samus feels like just the laziest and biggest missed opportunity that I'd rather they never took in the first place.

[@adamtheriault6743]

You sir are very incorrect about dark Samus 1. In her Metroid prime 2 boss fights, especially the second one, she uses abilities in line with prime Samus like the morph ball speed booster, ice spreader ice beam combo from Metroid prime, and in Metroid prime 3, the plasma beam she steals from ghor, among others 2. There are actual data logs in prime 2 of the space pirates confusing dark Samus with Samus and attacking her, only to get annihilated, leading them to be worried that they have to deal with "two of them", until they learn she's only concerned with absorbing phazon and trying to figure out how to coerce her into annihilating the real Samus 3. Concerning the assist trophy, the moveset the assist trophy uses, in look and use, is ripped straight from prime 3, the arching aim shots above that home in, the tendrils of energy that bat away close combat aggressors, the scattershot was started in prime 2 and carried to 3 4. For her win screens, the splitting is the most obvious call back, the one where she turns and looks directly into the camera and it zooms in, it shows her actual eyes in the visor, which are also shown off in the end of prime 2 when she's so supercharged with phazon her skin becomes transparent and you can see her organs and whatnot, the one where she reaches up with her left hand is a call back to her creation and her destruction, when she's created, the first thing that sprouts from the mass of phazon is her open, outstretched left hand, and when she dies, she reaches up in the exact same way with her left hand before she explodes 5. This is purely to rub it in, but if you're going to call dark Samus 8 more colors for Samus, you counted wrong, dark Samus shares the black with yellow secondary color with samus's new eighth color, unless you also meant texture, which you didn't Would I rather she be her own character, yes, there's available material to do so Am I happy she's in the game as a playable character, yes, what she DOES have gives her plenty of personality through very different animations Am I going to be absurdly salty about how she's implemented, like all those people salty about mii costumes despite actual fans being happy about their inclusion to the biggest crossover in gaming history? No You're not a real fan, so don't pretend to be, it makes other Metroid fans look bad by comparison

[@neo4420]

@@adamtheriault6743 bro it aint that deep 😭

[@adamtheriault6743]

@@neo4420 watch sakurais presentation explaining Terry bogard then tell me sakurai doesn't care that much

[@neo4420]

@@adamtheriault6743 you care way too much abt the game bro why are you arguing with people on the internet thats goofball behavior

[@adamtheriault6743]

@@neo4420 is wanting to correct lies about something you care about really that much of a grasping concept for you?

[@skykissell9001]

Samus needs a rework to play more like dread Samus. I don’t think she has had a single move change since 64

[@Geozone117]

Ganon gets the re work. Drops the mic.

[@crimsontrickster6636]

I can’t believe the first one wasn’t Falcon. He went from a character where half of his moves didn’t function right, to being roided out and spamming up smash until it kills. And now there’s a ton more Falcons compared to when ultimate came out

[@robertmosley429]

I think for “What character has the best players”, the answer is peach. They spend 12 hours a day in practice mode. I think it’s genuinly impressive how much they have found with that character and I don’t even think they’re done. Every peach player I’ve seen is insane, but it kind of sucks that there aren’t a lot of peach players in majors, I love watching their gameplay

[@Endershock1678]

Look, I'm gonna level with you. Peach has 1 difficult thing, float cancel. Learn that, and everything else is autopilot. Maybe it was easy for me because I'm used to learn FGC inputs, but she definitely doesn't need as much labbing as you think.

[@robertmosley429]

@@Endershock1678 Sorry if I didn’t make this clear, I’m not saying peach is the most difficult character, I was just saying that I think the players are really good at using her for what she can do.

[@HoshiArt]

Also love how half of the video is just them discussing their PTSD from Leo's Joker

[@ogkboy5029]

“They got anime on their side, Little Mac lives in NEW YORK” As a New Yorker I agree with this sentiment

[@gardiangamer2443]

the character that is pretty much the face of smash bros? Mario or Kirby.

[@hambughrr8186]

Mario and Kirby are good answers, but I've got 12 better ones: The Original 12!

[@DrEcho]

The last question is yet to be determined I think. For me it's Melee-Fox Brawl-MK 4-Bayo because they were so dominant in the vacuum of few/no balance changes from the devs. Looking at Ultimate I think we can only now begin to say who's that character because we know there are no more balance changes. It's also possible with such a big roster and such efforts towards the balance and how much time and change we've already had with the game since 1.0.0 that there may never be one character that achieves immortal meme status like previous titles.

[@Hugo_Prolovski]

yea true. but fox was nowhere as broken as bayo or mk lmao

[@DrEcho]

@@Hugo_Prolovski yeah not broken competitively or dominant except in our consciousness which I think is even more important. When I say "immortal meme status" I really mean it. No items. Fox only. Final Destination.

[@shn4449]

It's so great that there's not a single 'face' of Ultimate competitive like Fox in Melee, Meta Knight in Brawl or Bayonetta in Smash 4.

[@DBE_TheZek]

Yeah, it’s very cool to have 3-5 characters competing for top one (though Pikachu is busted)

[@tomasbedoya2901]

"Most likely to make your bracket easier, Wadi" you didn't have to do him like that

[@ariasariamis712]

Well, they did mean that he randomly removes difficult opponents for them, like Dabuz and Spargo

[@claymore4852]

There were many characters that no one believed in and ended up being great, but I think Byleth deserves a special mention here. Not only was he/she considered a low or mid tier by everyone, he/she was also getting shit from everyone for being a FE character and now he/she is winning majors piloted by the best player in the world + people seem to like the caharcter now, I see tons of Byleths online

[@Lexicon865]

"Biggest letdown was Banjo" *I dunno, Daisy would say otherwise*

[@Hawkeyeblock]

Nah we waited 20 years for Banjo and they butchered him begone filthy casual

[@kyurei4478]

Honestly Daisy as a Peach clone is exactly how I imagined she would be in Smash. Dark Samus on the other hand...

[@melgibsonero]

People were fine with Daisy being a recolor of Peach, even if it's missed potential. People were waiting for Banjo since melee and then they get... this.

[@Eclipsmon8421]

A character that we could see as surprisingly good is my main Bowser. Now you might tell me that Bowser wasn't bad in Smash 4, and that's true, but the thing is, Bowser is super heavyweight, and we would learn that he lost his combo throw that pretty much made his character in Smash 4. And before Ultimate, there were only 4 super heavyweight that were considered good and it was often because they got one broken thing in their kit. Smash 4 Bowser and DK got their super good combo throw, Brawl Dedede had one of the best chain grabs in the game, and Brawl Snake, who was technically a super heavy in that game due to being heavier than King Dedede for some reason, was broken mess of a character. Bowser in Ultimate isn't a broken mess, and doesn't rely on one combo or something, and yet it's a legit very good character.

[@Adem92Foster]

How did none of them say "Game And Watch" at the first question, went from a low tier/low-mid tier no one believed to a high tier that almost everyone despise

[@Skeepers192]

The "best playerbase" character has to be someone with a high skill ceiling. Like Shulk or Pac-man. If you play those characters you're probably nuts because if you aren't, you get destroyed until you stop playing them.

[@dush.1746]

Then more like a high skill floor

[@Skeepers192]

@@dush.1746 U right

[@mooseywoosey8734]

I think it’s worth mentioning Sora in the conversation of who will be thought of as the “face” of Ultimate. Not because he’s broken, or because he’s a nightmare in bracket, but because his inclusion feels like an act of god in the first place.

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

Little Mac doesn't need a whole rework, but he should have a slight buff to his up b height. It's a platform fighter. It's ridiculous. He either should get the buff or he shouldn't be in the game; I'd prefer he be in the game. It would still be bad relative to other characters, so the "theme" still fits. Just enough to make him a little better.

[@nonplayercharacter12333]

I wanna know in the comments which character broke your heart. For me, I'm gonna go with a personal bias and say Marth. The man I stuck with since Smash 4. He has things going for him, but in the ocean of good frame data, cutscene combos and broken DLC and Lucina being overall better, it's hard for Marth to shine in this meta.

[@mlindquist8942]

lucario and metaknight need reworks for sure

[@BurningNight314]

I was playing along. Here's my list: Biggest Glowup: Palutena (From Sm4sh to Ultimate, she became a much better character) Biggest Fall off: Pichu Most deserving of a rework: Sonic (Because no one likes Sonic running away for 8 minutes) Most likely to cause an upset: No opinion Best Playerbase: Ice Climbers (No one plays ICs unless you can pull off their crazy stuff. It helps that their playerbase is so small, so a high average) Most likely to make a comeback: Joker Biggest Letdown: Banjo (Most annoying character in the game IMO) Surprisingly Good: Steve (I never thought he would be bad, but he's way better than I was expecting) Face of the game: Joker (His reveal trailer was the most hype thing in the game's lifespan IMO. I also just think he's super cool)

[@crucibleberri]

I feel like worst falloff could also go to K Rool and Belmonts. I remember week one Ult when everyone thought they were crazy good

[@MrBobxxl]

Sonic needs a rework the most, by far. Just from looking at how polarizing and hated the character is. For me, rework isnt about making a character better or worse, but improving the kit to where it better fits in the game or make it less cheap or frustrating. Another good choice for me would be g&w since i think he just wouldnt work anymore if one would nerf his up-b and nair and buff some other moves for that, but at the same time, in the current state he is a character that cant play offensive himself but when you get to get close to him, he destroys you most of the time, making him a character, that has to be battled by camping/outranging him. Just think of maister up smashing 5 times in a row and all the enemy can do ist give him his space and w8t it out... That cant be good gamedesign.

[@4valongaming388]

as a face of the game I actually think of Palutena or Wolf. As Pika was a base game char that stayed top tier through all the patches that didn't change him, Wolf and Palu were characters more picked by players, more seen in top8's of tournaments, and despite patches they remained the top tier and I think most ppl still agree they're top 10, with a lot like me picking them as top5 candidates. Wolf was the more hyped from the start cause of his return from brawl (and remember how wanted he was in smash4), and Palu was the one that made biggest jump from smash4 to ultimate, prepatch of her nerfs being really considered top1 by some. As Palu was pretty much nobody's character (I can count one player who played her..) in smash4, to make her popular and till now we have Palu mains getting PGRs like Lui$ or Chag. And Wolf on the other hand secondaried/pocketed by so much of top players, Leo, Tweek, Kola and more and there are Wolf mains like Jakal or Charlie, even Wizzrobe making top8 at one major not expected by anybody to do that well in ultimate.

[@Shadw0Maelstrom]

I was just thinking about how the characters that alpharad wants to get in, he basically doesn't get to play because they broken. Bayo in smash 4 and pythra here, or maybe not idk

[@16-bitpixel74]

I'd say sonic needs a rework, sonic has way more moves than just "SpEeN" two spindashes??? Cmon man-

[@mikeychrisanthus9948]

I think wolf when I think ultimate, a near perfect mesh of an all around character that lets each player’s creativity shine through him

[@Ult_Trickster]

12:12 - I know most of it is because of MKLeo, but I'm surprised they didn't mention Byleth. With the addition of majority of people weren't hyped during the reveal because it's "another Fire Emblem character," during the presentation Byleth was shown as a slow and laggy character who unlike Joker, only has a tether recovery and while they do have long reach, everyone thought "well if you're too slow to get your moves out then it doesn't really matter." But once Leo had interest in them, he proved everyone wrong by (at first) having him be his secondary, and now is basically using only Byleth at every tournament and winning 99% of the time

[@nathanpark]

I'd love to see Kirby get a rework. Just making his moves more aligned with his games would be a great touch. Dtilt becomes his slide move from the games, Nair becomes him shooting out a puff of air, Things like that.

[@skybubbles2637]

Meta knight is fine, but just make 1 more move a combo move like m ake FAir low kb and make hair a little stronger. Now fair is a poking tool that can combo into up b for a kill or upair for a combo. Also, landing lair combos and it kills

[@caliensomlak3984]

Biggest glow up is game and watch. Without buffs game and watch went from mid to top teir

[@Prexon339]

Won't lie I think Sonic needs to be reworked the most. He spins he's a ball wow guys, but like. Can he just actually have a real moveset? I don't even care about his existence as a character. Just don't wanna deal with haha spin

[@ice5615]

sonic and samous she should get her metroid dread moveset ngll and sonic is well yk

[@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569]

Exactly. Like I can at least respect zoners being campy because they fill an obvious archetype of "I can pressure you from a distance so you are the one who needs to approach" Sonic meanwhile is campy because he's only mediocre up close and has the craziest burst options in the game. He abuses broken mechanics to control when interactions happen which just leads to a boring non interactive game. Ultimate Sonic reminds me of Melee Puff with how they utilize overtuned mechanics to control the pace of a match. Difference is that at least Melee Puff has Rest which can make games interesting, Sonic just camps you and punishes you if you dare try to approach him. Not saying that there isn't obvious counterplay, but for anyone who doesn't play a defensive character the matchup is frustrating to say the least.

[@ShinyMew76]

Sonic could have the 3 elemental abilities from sonic mania, the fire dash, the bubble bounce, and the the electric shield could be a reflector Neutral Special: Homing Attack Same as is Side Special: Fire Dash Will dash forward into the air, similar to Mii brawler’s special, “burning dropkick” Up Special: Spring Same, but when he reaches max height, tails will grab him so he can move left and right more easily while descending Down Special: Bubble Bounce Spikes aerial opponents, sends sonic straight downwards, if he hits the ground or a platform, he bounces back up, he reflects projectiles while being sent downwards Shield: Electric Shield Sonic will get a new and improved shield instead of the average one he has, his will be unique like yoshi’s Sonic can still be shield poked, but his shield will reflect all projectiles at the expense of a small amount of shield strength being lost. Dtilt: Spin Dash Can Be charged, will act like his spin dash from sonic mania Ftilt: The average ftilt, but made to fit sonic better Utilt Instead of his current utilt, the up throw animation where he uses his spikes to send the opponent upwards will be used, it will be a reliable KO option Jab: Same Dair: Dropdash Again, from sonic mania, it’s a spin dash but it starts in the air, he spiked opponents on his way to the ground, he does a spin dash immediately after touching the ground, you can cancel the move in the air so if you spike an opponent you can recover onstage. Nair His nair will be the same as it is in all 2D Sonic games, he simply jumps in the air and spins, the hitbox stays active until he touches the ground, jumps again, or after 5 seconds. Bair Same Uair Utilt animation but aerial version Fair Same Fsmash Same Dsmash repurpose his breakdance taunt into a multi hit smash attack Usmash Same Throws Same but they combo incredibly easy and send at optimal angles Your too slow! Taunt returns Final smash is super sonic but he is instead a controllable transformation, which lasts for 15 seconds or when the opponent loses their stock, a counter which starts at 50 and counts down the rings will eventually run out after 15 seconds, sonic is invincible but can still be grabbed, he will still die offstage or from a KO throw.

[@ShinyMew76]

Mewtwo is probably one of the most slept on characters

[@kyurei4478]

True but he needs someone to show his potential. The unusualness of the character makes him a rare pick I think tho.

[@solemnsovereign758]

I've played Mewtwo on and off for the last year, and I've always felt like he was "a high tier in a low tiers body." He's got good buttons, decent stats, and is incredibly explosive, but the massive body and low weight makes him worse then he should be. Doesn't mean I don't love him

[@zeospark9715]

I swear Sakurai was like "No I added Pichu in this game so he be a joke character, not the best character in this game" and just hit the nuke button on him in that infamous 3.0 patch lol

[@melondoesyoutube]

My Personal List: *Biggest Glow Up:* BYLETH (MkLeo changed the way people look at this dude dramatically) *Worst Fall Off:* KING K ROOL (I felt like EVERYONE was playing him after release and everybody had trouble mashing out of bury) *Most Deserving Of A Re-work:* BANJO & KAZOOIE (Banjo was extremely hyped but fell off immediately because of his spammy and zoner moveset. I feel like nobody enjoys playing as him or against him) *Most Likely To Cause An Upset:* KAZUYA or STEVE (for the same reasons they list in the video, I 100% agree) *Best Player Base:* ROB (Also agree with this one) *Comeback Master:* LITTLE MAC (If I'm up 3 stocks to 1, and I die to K.O punch twice, I start to sweat) *Biggest Letdown:* BANJO & KAZOOIE (I was so hyped, just to be dissatisfied and disappointed 😞) *Biggest Surprise:* INKLING (I was so scared Inkling would have a zoner moveset and be super easy to beat but was pleasantly surprised with the moveset and combo potential) *Face Of SSBU:* JOKER (This character blew away everyone and for a time, everyone called Joker #1. And people still feel that way to this day) (And that's it. So yeah.)

[@shmeeplopshmeeplop2730]

remember that everyone thought G&W was bottom 5 at one point

[@seamuscoyle1441]

Yo glow up across games is honestly Ness, Ultimate ness smokes every other incarnations of the character

[@nickpasquini1161]

Surprising that none of them mentioned G&W for most surprising

[@TheSpaceOpera]

Biggest glow up should be Game and Watch. Very early tier lists thought he was TRASH - and Maister demonstrated the potential of the character and now he’s undisputedly at least high tier. Most in need of a rework is piranha plant. He is entirely reliant on his gimmicky shitty slow spike ball which is a pretty terrible gimmick. It’s a shame and I feel like there was more wacky potential for him. One trick pony with a really bad trick.

[@Takkunaso]

Whenever I think of smash ultimate, an image of all the DLC come to my mind lol

[@risingtoastcheesecake4730]

I was most surprised by Hero. I thought he would be like sora turned out, a swordfighter who does swordthings and has some spells. And then he turned out to be a goofball and the most fun character for me. I think lucario is a good candidate for a redesign, but I feel like ganon also needs it. He has been a falcon clone forever now and it's about time he gets his own moveset. Honestly, do something like banjo who rides kazooie to dash and make him summon a horse whenever he dashes so he isn't slow on the ground. Give him a float mechanic and make him faster in the air. Give him magic based attacks. And please don't just replace him with calamity ganon in the next game

[@geekey3441]

1:55 Esam: "stinkiest loser" Wadi: ""stinkiest loser?"" *checks* *sniff*

[@GING173]

I Remember in high school this one kid talked about how he was balding and would carry Rogainewith him to school every day

[@kamgray1010]

Ending was so wholesome wtf

[@baliaza4485]

I feel like joker is the face not only because of mkleo, but because of how unexpected he was and it paved the way for even bigger additions like banjo and steve

[@hambughrr8186]

Joker is definitely an unexpected inclusion, I really did not see any requests for him TBH, but the way he was revealed definitely generated a lot of hype that he would otherwise not receive.

[@baliaza4485]

@@hambughrr8186 That and for the later inclusions to smash

[@myholmiestreams9287]

Esams enjoyment of wadis "rrring the bell" is so wholesome

[@SamsauceYT]

that little mac discussion made my high ass laugh so hard

[@nevets1726]

"Most Deserving of a Rework" Me: Donkey Kong

[@DeezNuts-kb9di]

not having ganon come up as a "rework needed" contender had me smh my head.

[@jankounchained4211]

I love these kind of discussions with the boys

[@mykingjr]

Reworking sonic to make him an actual hype character would make me happy :(

[@nick1wasd]

I agree with Joker being the face of Ultimate, but mainly from the PR perspective. He was the first DLC, and was the trend setter of Ultimate's conga line of wacky 3rd party picks for the remaining 10 slots (though 3 of them were first party).

[@blackstab3913]

On the rework matter I'd say there's a few characters than just outright don't fit into Smash gameplay wise. Shulk, Snake, Sonic, Min Min come to mind. Monado shield/smash outright break the fundamentals of the game, Snake is designed to play as campy as possible (unlike Samus or YL who can be ridiculously obnoxious, but can do other things) and he has the right to edgeguard for no risk/high reward with side B. Sonic is just something of an antithesis of Smash and is frustrating to play against, as and watch and Min Min is self explanatory. Personally, I dislike most sword characters, the ones that get the advantages of swords + very good stats for almost no trade off (Roy, Aegis, Lucina, Shulk...) but Byleth, Hero, Cloud, Sephiroth... are characters with clear strength and clear weaknesses and prove that sword zoners can be balanced and more importantly fun to play as and against. Aegis is just a regular swordie with an absurd frame data and unnecessary privileges in the form of foresight and Pyra's dair, just give them fucking lag on their moves and it would be fine. There's place for "more original" gameplay, like Hero, Rosalina, Isabel, Steve or Olimar are proof of, but as long as it stays interactive for the opponent, which I feel isn't the case for Shulk, Snake, Sonic or Min Min

[@devongibson4161]

Most likely to cause upset? Hero RNG and Link. I’ve never had anyone rage quit so much as when I use these two characters.

[@theimprovedbore550]

if ESAM was serious about his "most likely to be bald in 3 years" superlatives, then that's _really_ funny also i'm genuinely shocked they didn't push more for sonic to get a rework

[@Sawcybui]

I'm shocked they didn't even mention Ganondorf

[@genericname4855]

R.O.B. is the face of ultimate. Most represented character in tournaments, and is arguably the most versatile (can be played as a fundamentals character, combo character, campy projectile character, etc.).

[@crooker23]

They got anime on their side, little Mac LIVES IN NEW YORK

[@sillysailorartemis]

16:56 "Everyone is here

[@3eve0n]

I didn't realize how bad lucario's moveset in smash was until I played pokken. Ever since then I've wanted him to be completely redone.

[@saged9643]

Marss sounded so smart in this video

[@Speye1577]

For the first award, did they forget about sheik?

[@jomart1121]

The box w “Beans” on it making a guest appearance

[@lethe_lets]

The face: K Rool. Everyone has an opinion on the big old pirate.

[@orlandorodriguez8270]

Usually don’t comment but found this concept for a video really fun. Would love to see more of it on here and especially with the fgc crews