Who owns your data? Jaron Lanier has the answer. | Andrew Yang

[@andybaldman]

*If you like the ideas you hear here from Jaron, look up his other lectures. He has many, and they're all really good. He doesn't have his own channel, but has many speaking appearances and lectures on other peoples' channels, going back 10 years. Lots of good ideas.*

[@albert_chen]

Jaron Lanier came to our school as a speaker recently and I was lucky enough to sit down and have lunch with him with a group of other studnets. Many people didn't know him and actually made fun of his appearance. For many students, stem speakers are a chore that they have to sit through and I feel no different for most speakers. Jaron took the stage with no real game plan and just began talking about what was on his mind. While listening to him talk about how social media is affecting our lives, how can we benefit from technology, and the impact of open-source technology, all I could think about was what a bold new perspective. The saddest thing was when I looked to my right, kids were sleeping. The overwhelming feeling I had that day was disappointment. My school, a relatively wealthy private school, paid for such a great and influential speaker to come only for the majority of the student population to sleep through it.

[@jperin001]

And what is sadder is that it is a great many more than your classmates who are sleeping through important discussions. But the awakening is beginning.

[@wt5219]

Really sad that lookism pervades our modern existence, and we are all worst off with it. Would have greatly appreciated being able to hear someone like this speak in a classroom setting.

[@Ho11is2Ho11ywood]

i felt like this years ago when Cornel West came to my school.

[@matthewallan1619]

Very jealous you met him! One minor thing: Jaron's perspective is actually heavily influenced from the 70's/80's....he has his own insights, but when discussing the worrying effects of social media, how the internet could be structured and what data 'is' (philosophically), he frequently references computer science theory from decades ago. It allows one to see that the people of yesterday, in some ways, were having better conversations about technology and we've lost that. So, not so much a brand new perspective but rather a re-discovering of the conversations that were left aside and forgotten in exchange for quick gratification.

[@katherandefy]

He’s brilliant. I think his self-expressions are a bit dated but the info is not. Unless for instance Jack Dorsey is considered old fogey. He is saying the same things as Jaron.

[@daurham]

Ideas were discussed here that I’ve never thought of. Wow

[@likha2010]

Why isn't this longer? We need like a couple of hours or a book equivalent to the topics! Data as labour (new form of work), data unions, data brokers, and basically a new vision of economy! Please have Jaron back again! You haven't talked about how both of you can work or how politicians could make this work, what has failed, and how we can restart or continue what is promising i.e. moving beyond GDPR!

[@tammymcconnell821]

Melanie_Reads I think he might have his own podcast.

[@jimbledsoe9083]

this is very deep and i am needing to rewind and listen very carefully. i will also be thinking about it for a while. So the length is fine what we need is to do the home work and research more around these ideas. Data Unions with fiduciaries and subscriptions that grant us control. A lot to unpack here.

[@likha2010]

@@tammymcconnell821 I have to look for it. He might also have a book but I've listened to several long form talks he has given. However it's the first time I've heard about the topics he raised here. It's very compelling.

[@likha2010]

@@jimbledsoe9083 definitely! I have to listen to it again. Too bad that Andrew interrupts his chain of thought several times that makes Lanier's statements woefully incomplete and leaves me hanging. They should talk again and this time he has to simply listen, summarize, and ask better questions! I'm with you on this. The concepts are fresh and compelling.

[@BobbyRoybal]

@@likha2010 Jaron does have several long videos here on You tube as well. He is brilliant, but can get a little distracted as he digs so deep on concepts and topics. Andrew is brilliant for saying things that everyone can understand, while Jaron requires a stop, rewind, look-up, and deep dive. I think the two together are an amazing mash-up of thoughts and actions. (With Jaron on the nature of reality and philosophy, and Andrew with the... here's how we can do that.) If left to his own ends, Jaron would talk forever...delving from one amazing concept and insight straight into another. He's a great speaker... but kind of a hosts nightmare. ;) Andrew did a great job, exposing Jaron to a new audience. They should co-write a book! I'd just call it, "Why and How!" lol

[@ArthurMottergan]

This guy Yang I think this guy should be president.

[@aljan5047]

Don't think. Believe

[@ArthurMottergan]

@@aljan5047 Sorry I but there is no god.

[@aljan5047]

@@ArthurMottergan I respect your opinion.

[@ArthurMottergan]

@@aljan5047 did not intend to attack. Should have responded in a different way. I respect your belief just saying.

[@aljan5047]

@@ArthurMottergan same here. it's hard to express ourselves in comments. No worries. #HumanityFirst

[@liaderyang7487]

Andrew Yang is the dopest right now. The UnderGround King who hasn’t been crown. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@kiranraj2744]

someones been listenin to 50 cent

[@user-zb6lg1xj3k]

Damn team Yang is putting in werrrrk

[@007topless]

Yang is killing it

[@Zinacharme]

what a good conversation.

[@auction00]

Love Andrew Yang. Listening to Andrew calms my mind because I've found someone I can trust ............and let him do the research for me of what I need to listen to for a better future. Thank you Andrew!!!

[@GrantLenaarts]

Jaron has clarity on the data landscape. We need an AI of Quality measures, this will create trust data that can flow into accounting.

[@opealia]

More people need to hear this podcast, no matter what your political views are.

[@tinhinnh]

Yang is unknowingly prepping for the 2024 debates by interrupting a speaker here lol

[@katherandefy]

Jaron’s laugh is funny and infectious. What a brain. Gonna see if I can find books by him. If not hope to hear more of these talks with him in them.

[@JuiiceBoxxx93]

I just bought his book Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts Right Now. It’s good.

[@katherandefy]

I bought it too and still gotta read it. Thanks for the reminder.

[@Saki-Legenda]

Great minds where that greatness is only rivaled by the greatness of their hearts is a rarity indeed. The world desperately needs more people like you Andrew and Jaron.

[@ctznblack7996]

Personally I hate subscription models, I think they incentivize a lack of innovation in the product or service. However I agree we can't continue with this pseudo-free access to everything. Wether we like it or not it cost something in the end and I'd rather that cost be transparent.

[@LahvTM]

Why do you think subscription models incentivize a lack of innovation?

[@ctznblack7996]

@@LahvTM because i've seen it in cable companies, online games etc. not saying some can't rise above that but when there is a steady income supplied by subscription there is little incentive to make the service or product better than it is.

[@katherandefy]

That’s a general criticism of capitalism and consumerism. And I had some of the same thoughts. However the key benefit of both those things is that they direct resources exactly where needed/wanted/requested/demanded. The weakness is definitely monetary “efficiency” replacing innovative improvement(s). It means that the older a system gets, the more security-focused it is on staying the same. This is not a feature of systems per se but a core feature of the scarcity mindset that arises from almost total dependence on monetary reward to convey subsistence. It isn’t just individuals in need of security but businesses and more broadly speaking, all levels within commerce. The wrong idea is to think that competition creates innovation. It does not. It creates zero sum winners and losers, sink or swim modes. What’s the solution? More security for everyone. Less backbiting and fewer damage hits sustained oneself or lobbed at others. More collaboration. For instance, Google has had some great ideas, PayPal ditto, Square also, Facebook of course and Twitter, Instagram. However, the general monopolizing effects are mega-damaging. I was leaning toward The Venus Project idea of resources in common with all. That’s a great thought. We’re not quite set up for it though we’re closer than ever before in history. I think that the importance of money is that it directs resources rather promptly. And until we have more security, those who hold the resources are not apt to share them in common. So Yang is right imo. We must move the needle over the hurdle of economic security/freedom.

[@auction00]

I had never heard of Jaron Lanier before this show and I'm learning alot. Will probably have to listen a couple times to get it all and also wish is was alot longer because there is just so much important information..........

[@stephenbach3042]

Search on KZbin for his other, longer video appearances. Also I highly recommend his book, Dawn of the New Everything.

[@smallpotatoes6820]

"It's not like anybody at Google and Facebook sat there and said that they wanted to do this. Well, maybe at Facebook..."

[@deeb33]

This was SO GOOD

[@Xander_1]

Hey Andrew, if you can I think it would be great if you had Michio Kaku on your podcast. He’s also considered a futurist and I think he will have a lot to contribute in terms of technological changes of our time and how it’s effecting us.

[@gh4534]

Dear Andrew, would you consider expanding your definition of "Data" beyond just electronic data? I seriously believe and perhaps you are already aware, but DNA is also data. People have been giving away their "DNA" data to 23andME and other ancestry websites for years. This I believe is an even more insidious than electronic data which only looks at our behavior. DNA data exposes us to even more detail examination of not only "who" we are but "what" we are. I'm not sure if the term "golden gene" is anything, but one could imagine, preferred genes (longevity, height, intelligence) that could be discovered (or even known already) that could help people like eliminating diseases. Designer Gene! People are giving away that data and someone could have that GOLDEN GENE and not know it but more importantly.....not OWN that gene. Consider: Henrietta Lacks' 'Immortal' Cells - I believe the hospital just took her cells without asking for rights. Not sure if she won any rights over them or earn anthing from her own cells but the hospital stoll her cells and gained massive knowledge and research.

[@kellytirman2257]

Two of my favorite thinkers. Thank you!

[@KYLE-zo4bm]

my god if i had to pay a subscription to every website who could afford to use the internet just be transparent about the use of our data and give us a cut of it

[@ryanodagawa]

Exactly...In the 80's, you just needed a TV. Then, cable tv came and now you're paying for the tv and the cable and then internet. Now, you're maybe paying for the TV, the cable/satellite, and/or computer, internet, VPN, Anti-virus, and mobile phone and Netflix, Disney +, HBO, Hulu, The Blu Ray and player, etc. And your pay wage hasn't really increased. I don't understand how that's supposed to work?

[@navinvent]

Problem with giving a cut is that, facebook made 70.8 billion $ and has 2.6 billion users, so approx about 30$ per year per customer, if they cant even make 3 $ a month from user, then the new companies will not be able to make a product and facebook is one of the most profitable. google with 140 billion revenue and 3 billion users is making around the same amount.

[@navinvent]

@@ryanodagawa Same way paying road tax doesnt give you a free car, insurance and fuel.

[@P4DDYW4CK]

If the value of data increases (as it would if we could bargain for better prices) then those companies could just take a share of that money as a charge for services rendered and still make enough money to exist. On top of that, data doesn’t depreciate over time like other forms of capital do. And trust me, these companies aren’t short on cash. They’re some of the wealthiest companies in the world and they employ far less than the big companies of yesteryear like Kodak used to. Plus, you could place a small tax on data transactions and make a sizable commons (like a public library) for everyone to use for free. Sometimes when we pay for things it gets better. That’s how we got peak TV. It doesn’t mean poor people will be locked out. And if 3D printing ever hits off in a big way, imagine a future when any engineer or designer can put their CAD file on some platform and make money every time someone uses it; same with art, music, and other things. Sure the platform would keep a chunk of the commission, but the individual gets rewarded as they should. Plus, it’s our data. It should be our property. I don’t care in what fancy ways some platform uses to capture that data. If they sell our data to some third company, they can keep a chunk but we should get a chunk too. What size should that chunk be? Ahhh, yes. That’s where market competition will come in. Except now users (or data producers) will have a say because they own their own data.

[@mbrightster]

@@navinvent Then internet is a public utility and needs strict regulation

[@steve_m2473]

Having YOUR data means, by definition, it is uniquely identifying YOU. No anonymity, not obfuscated into groupings, simply YOU. While there are many companies that can identify you and your data specifically as it relates to their interactions with you, it does not (in full daylight) travel with YOU. So that means the concept of owning your data means there is a repository (or repositories) warehousing the association needed to get all of your data from all of your interactions. So I guess I'm skeptical of such a premise being good or desirable for people. Its at best, a compromise and acknowledgement that "its going to happen anyway". But it seems more like an accelerant than a solution.

[@Alic4444]

The distinction is often very small. Not only because of the growing information mined and exchanged by companies, but because the more time people spend engaging with technology, the more the distinction becomes merely academic.

[@RevolutionaryThinking]

With UBI I'd spend a LOT less time on social media. I'd go travelling more often and even do more staycations. I'd have more money to explore my actual world instead of just explore it virtually.

[@hey.m.i.c.h.a.e.l]

i know right

[@justinleemiller]

Great guest! One of the few people who really understands these issues.

[@andybaldman]

Interesting to hear Jaron flat-out advocating for banning algorithmic manipulation. That seems like a slight evolution from his earlier beliefs (even though he was only stating it hypothetically here). But he's right. Recommendation engines that are run by someone else, to squeeze more time/money/attention/profit out of you are evil.

[@n1mbusmusic606]

Keeping people paying is different than keeping people watching. One requires an increase in quality of product or service the other requires manipulation. One is honest, the other fundamentally dishonest. We must choose

[@garyrodgers7883]

Thank you. These conversations are great, Yang.

[@DromarTB]

Never heard of Jaron before this; he's a pretty insightful guy. Thanks for introducing me to him!

[@stargazerh112]

Love to see a podcast with Yuval Harari

[@MultiA3b]

Great show and really important topics. Keep it up!

[@Luper1billion]

listening to these podcasts make me feel like I made it to the good universe where we win

[@yurona5155]

This must have been the most visionary displacement activity vs. empathic genius laugh-off of all time! ;)

[@faithwind3376]

Hmm explain?

[@kawtharbardan2515]

Viva PRESIDENT Andrew Yang ❤🇱🇷

[@user-xi2th5fm5p]

Jaron Lanier is a computer science philosopher. He brings clarity and speaks directly to the issues of our day. I would encourage you to watch his TED Talk.

[@virioguidostipa5681]

This is so good! Always a pleasure to listen.

[@erinpalmer7179]

Awesome discussion. Enlightening and inspiring. Thanks ever so much!

[@MB-hz7wm]

Genius idea of “Data Dignity” and using it for good by choice, not for something negative without choice by default.

[@andybaldman]

Ohhhhhhh shit! Lanier and Yang? Dream guest! WHY IS THIS NOT LONGER?? Glad he's on though. His ideas need to get more oxygen, as he's spot on about social media.

[@GreyWarden365]

#YangGang #Yang2024 #HumanityFirst

[@mtheinvincible4156]

Data dignity. Love the term.

[@christiansolid1098]

If this would be in video form this would be 🔥🔥🔥....nevertheless this was a great convo

[@thegoodthebadandtheugly579]

Well done for speaking to Jaron! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@swordierre9341]

While i struggle to see the practical application of these his ideas. Jaron's insights will become more and more paramount as technology, the internet, and society continue to meld (look at china as an example). His name will be remembered.

[@SOHRABSAADATLADJEVARDI]

“Organizing” was the most important and magic word in this conversation. One important subject was missing when talking about KZbin’s business policy: the daily copyright infringement which hurts the musicians community a lot. KZbin is exploiting music and music videos for their ads. And take the 100% revenue without sharing with the music copyright owners. Jaron, should have mentioned as a musician this issue specifically. He should have mention the “safe harbor” in the DMCL which saves KZbin’s ars towards their daily copyright infringements.

[@BobbyRoybal]

Their books, are the ones I have on my night stand! Holy Crap, what a mash-up of great thinkers!

[@joylo2321]

What a great conversation

[@davidtisler82]

I love this cast and the way we can find what part has been talked about.

[@jimmybolton8473]

Thankyou gentlemen ❤️🙏 for caring

[@Valness11]

has anyone found articles or videos of jaron lanier speaking about the current covid crisis in relationship to social media and technology? i am just WAITING for something on that. and meanwhile imagining it.

[@ninan2670]

Yes yes yes yes yes yes!!!!!!!!!! I am Sooooooooo waiting for that !!!!!!! It is IMPERATIVE, and URGENT. In fact, COVID and the surrounding dynamics tend to render some of these ideas radically outdated - can you believe???!!! Seismic shifts in global realities, power struggles, identity parameters... configuration of the dreaded dystopic (data-drenched) apocalypse...

[@ShadyRonin]

This is hands down the best Yang Speaks interview yet. My next suggestion would be bringing on Yuval Noah Harari... that would be an EPIC chat!

[@milesteg8627]

OMG. I hope other podcasts like Fridman or Weinstein have also have Jaron Lanier on. He has some fascinating and paradigm-shifting ideas - with practical market-based applications.

[@johnglascock6896]

Have you heard of Jaron Lanier? If not Google his name. I didn't know he existed. It's crazy his accomplishments: music, composer, pianist, musicologist, author of best sellingbooks, artist whose art is in museums, creator of virtual reality software, philosopher, on and on... I had no idea...

[@ymustitho6343]

I love that notation. Needs and feelings are what drives the society forward. It is the greatest wealth any human can ever have.

[@kc5029]

Yes Andrew Disposable INCOME As Far As The Comment On Paying FB

[@albin1568]

need to put video aswell, more ppl will watch

[@katherandefy]

But many people shy from the camera. And I wanna hear the ideas. So either way is fine with me. There are so many people to learn from. We need lots more of these funny people who don’t hog the camera. Really. We got hoggers of media aplenty with little in the way of contributions for the people they’re getting attn from. That’s actually a huge problem with attn getting. It’s so much work.

[@mbrightster]

@@katherandefy A visitor could have a still image on thier camera. We would get to watch Andew responding to the speaker.

[@stevown]

Great discussion

[@johnbuckner2828]

12:09 Good laugh 😆

[@codybye1319]

I think this is a really nice podcast, and the subject matter is excellent. That said, I do want to note that advertising on the internet does not necessarily equal the same sort of social dystopia as social networks. 100% love the idea of people participating in the equation to help with the quality of data. As an ad tech guy, it is always pretty interesting to watch how *bad* the various targeting systems can be - for example, trying to sell shampoo to a bald guy. Happens all the time.

[@kumkumjain9864]

good chemistry betwn u two...beneficial to us

[@AdamBechtol]

Solid stuff.

[@joysureta]

We want that in FRANCE 😮😳😢😢😢 do we have that ?

[@jonathantrautman]

I keep hearing about how many thousands of workers are going to be needed to contact trace, and yet none of the contact tracer positions I've applied to have responded to me in any way. Nothing logical is being done in this country. USA. We are not prioritizing worker safety, we are not testing well, contact tracing well, we are not even believing in the reality of the crisis well enough! I feel I understand these things, not in a professional way, but certainly in a way that would improve current practices just about everywhere I look. I have no professional certifications or degrees. I have two associates degrees and a certificate of general education. What can I do? This is my main concern every day, and I can present the situation in a cogent, logical, humanitarian fashion. Many don't have a humanitarian view on this crisis at all. I ask, why? This is also something I feel rhetorically prepared to remedy with all my being, but I have no qualifications. What do I do to help? I say this knowing experts are being ignored left and right How do I stop being a rat in the maze/matrix battery?

[@katherandefy]

Jonathan Trautman I am volunteering. Because being with and growing what I want into something bigger is essential. More people would love to be involved as well. Yang is looking for volunteers.

[@mokopenipatene4564]

When the leadership fail the People must choose a leader

[@tinhinnh]

He is the people’s President

[@plutarchtheoligarch1657]

Please talk to Dr. Ben Goertzel.

[@TwinTailsRyu]

Had no idea Jaron was in the Late Night Show's band!

[@n1mbusmusic606]

Super important conversation!! Space mirrors, thorcon nuclear and I don't c a modicum of b.u.i and MIDS as antithetical! It's practical

[@danielgajohnson]

Thanks for this discussion. Big fan of you both! I would like to make a suggestion though, similar to ones I and others have made on Eric Weinstein's show. Please don't gloss over ideas and concepts that could help illuminate the conversation. For instance, when Jaron says "code speaks louder than law," and you agree with him. I don't understand what he is trying to say with that statement, and it seemed interesting, and I would like to know how that idea contributes to this conversation.

[@howimade3309]

GET DR BUTTAR ON YOUR SHOW ASAP!

[@pencilcheck]

Somehow I feel like I like the services that are free than the services that are paid. But yea I understand what Jason was saying

[@diego2539]

Andrew, I love you man, but constantly interrupting Jaron was frustrating to listen to. I still enjoyed the episode, but yeah, I was just interested in hearing more of Jaron had to say.

[@jperin001]

Know what you mean. It's uncharacteristic of Yang to interrupt. I think Yang was just very excited to talk with Jaron. Perhaps even man crushing.

[@livmilesparanormalromanceb6891]

I keep thinking your logo is the thin blue line logo XD

[@justintierney4717]

Jaron is a legend

[@deliriousarmy3940]

Speaking of data, Yang floated the idea of a 4day work per week. According to study in Japan it increases productivity by 40% in recent test. New Zealand PM suggested it earlier. Even Anthony Scarramuchi, former WH communication sec like it too. Saying Yang gang is a force to reckon in 2024.

[@justinleemiller]

I have a youtube subscription. It's worth the money. I'm not sure why people are afraid to pay for things they value.

[@kumkumjain9864]

"decency" is a mutuality...it cant b evidenced as its intangible...

[@jimmybolton8473]

Yeah we deserve some money for our data so we can build a future for ourselves and family’s

[@suleiman1520]

I hope Jaron takes care of himself... I can hear him gasping for air as he breathes... Such an important, human, empathetic voice in these times.

[@adrianwright2817]

My app Health Equals Wealth uses this data dignity model by giving users digital currency for their posts, livestreams, etc... we gamify the social experience and include a health component.

[@doctora3262]

Don't forget to comment, Like, Share and Subscribe for the ALGORITHM. Let's harness the technology and algorithms to boost positive voices like Andrew, Jaron and few other notable ones.

[@kumkumjain9864]

th only privacy one cn rely on is ones thoughts... nobody cn steal that data...

[@n1mbusmusic606]

I love you both!!!!

[@18Yoav]

If you use somee.social you'll see how data ownership and monetization by the user can work in a social network.

[@jimmybolton8473]

Point

[@AtypicalPaul]

Wish Yang was still in the running. YANG 2024!?

[@JordanService]

Yang we can make an America 2.0 right now with in the legal structure, we just need the leadership. IMO we can focus on repurpose failing colleges as new townships. Check out our models!

[@katherandefy]

Jordan Service more info please?

[@JordanService]

@@katherandefy I have more specific things un released (related to the Municipal Structures) but a good start is here: www.PietraNetwork.com

[@kumkumjain9864]

emotions r also a mix of contradictory data...rather like paradoxes tht make up relatnships

[@Betty9971]

Best display of awesome laughing ever!!!

[@DenHenson]

Andrew, you need more descriptive THUMBNAILS. The current thumbnail has no pull. The keyword for this video like “who owns your data” should be in the thumbnail and Title should really serve as a subtitle.

[@SkyRiver1]

Personally I would prefer a sort of democratic neoconfusian techno-meritocracy, wherein people would not vote for candidates, but for the tests and various VR simulated scenarios submitted for consideration by experts in testing of psychological fitness and problem solving abilities that would be appropriate for the office being sought. Tests that would be open to all citizens at all times in order to challenge those who held various government offices, and replace them if they scored higher than the current occupant during the next cycle of government upgrade. And perhaps these test competitions should also be opened to AI or at least cyborgs who are highly supplemented by AI.

[@dionysusnow]

Cyborgs, the slippery slope.

[@SkyRiver1]

@@dionysusnow We are already cyborgs and have been for a hundred years. Wait, on second thought, make that centuries, no, millennia.

[@realdeal139]

Jaron’s laugh is both funny n scary.

[@nate4029]

How long till trucks get automated?

[@gh4534]

Andrew mentioned during his run that a truck went across the country fully automated already.

[@nate4029]

G H oh ok. I asked because I was thinking of getting a cdl but then the thought of trucks getting automated...

[@mbrightster]

Has anyone figured out what our data would be worth to us? Lets say we offer our data to every Tom Dick and Harry company that offers to pay us to sell our data. Given certain criteria, how much could it be worth as a monthly or quarterly payment?

[@kunaalsingh510]

Andrew, can you get Chamath Palihapitiya on the show?

[@deliriousarmy3940]

I think Yang found his laugh buddy.

[@RameshRamloll]

My troll comments define my data dignity and have immense value... Jaron Lanier, God father of the internet... you learn something everyday I guess.

[@JackTheRabbitMusic]

Jaron!!! Let's jam brother!!! Call me!! 🐰❤️🎸🎶🤝✌️

[@fudgeknuckle952]

I've studied psychology at Uni and we're paying a massive cost for this trash. I don't use ANY social media except KZbin (i know, i know) which i reduce notifications as far as possible. This is not sustainable if i want to start a business though. The market demands you make a presence online and you must submit to the terms of service in order to do so. Even as a yang ganger fully aware his run existed because of the internet - fuck the internet.

[@hey.m.i.c.h.a.e.l]

As long as we live in a world that says you dont have much or any value unless your a hardworking wealthy man or a pretty fertile woman the majority will always live in poverty and be overwhelmingly unsatisfied with there lives

[@faithwind3376]

True.