Who was the Real Evil Judge Holden? - RE:WIRE

[@Spartan-4309]

I hold Blood Meridian may work better as a mini series than a 2-3 hour movie

[@jarnodatema]

Agreed

[@HandsomeLongshanks]

​@cursed770 wendigoon has a 5 hour video summarizing and talking about the book. It would probably end up being a 10-12 part series if they kept everything.

[@GeorgeRamsey22]

​@cursed770I took personal offense to that...

[@GeorgeRamsey22]

All Gooners unite in defense of our king!

[@Trve_Kvlt]

​@cursed770I've never seen a more incorrect statement in my entire life

[@lbwlawyer]

I’m from Nacogdoches, and I can truthfully say we’ve never had a goat rapist. That sounds much more like a Shelby County issue.

[@Rewiretube]

Brutal

[@JacobWoolf-sc9hc]

Lmfao. Panola county can verify this statement as fact. Fuck Shelby county.

[@rickrose5377]

Tucumcari.

[@Elwood_McCable]

Sounds like something somebody with an immoral fondness for goats might try to maintain.

[@rickrose5377]

@@Elwood_McCable Immoral?

[@Nabo42]

I think the real judge is the friendships we made along the way.

[@yucatansuckaman5726]

😂

[@aidanespinoza-smith871]

Nah Bro that's just the one piece ending😭😭😭

[@superman9772]

the actual real events occurred south of yuma, arizona (that's my hometown) the gang was hired by the sonoran, mexico government to kill yaqui and apaches who had not submitted to the mexican government ...the river crossing was at that time part of mexico... the river crossing was run by a man named lincoln (a cousin of the future president) ... lincoln had written back home (kentucky) that he had gotten rich ($50,000 or about 2 million today) from the river ferry... the gang discovered this fact and took over the river crossing ferry and killed the quechuan people, who ran the competing ferry... the quechuan then massacred the gang... BUT the judge supposedly escaped the massacre with "lincoln's gold"... now , i did hunt for that gold from time to time... following hints, clues, and old timer's stories, i went from the swamp and sand of the colorado river to a small park near the bend of santa monica blvd in los angeles, to campo, ca, to valquez rocks (northeast of los angeles) to hi jolly's grave in quartzside and some places in between ... never found the gold but the story and description of judge holden was consistent ... it's my belief that his cruelty and gruesome actions affected the valquez gang that he reportedly rode with until their eventually demise in campo, ca (southeast of san diego)...the glanton massacre at yuma crossing had set off the yuma war which eventually bankrupt the state of california and caused several other massacres. notably the oatman massacre and the crabb expedition massacre...and the massacre of the cocopah people by the quechuan people.. it was a very gruesome time and wasn't "settled" until the ride of king woolsey and his arizona rangers (the infamous red sash gang/ cowboys from the o.k. corral shootout)... to this day, there is still flashes of gruesome acts in that area and thus it's not advisable to travel in some areas... some of the cultural spiritual rituals in that area still have very bloody and gruesome acts (and i've witnessed some of these acts)... there's a saying down there "you haven't cried enough tears for god to listen"... judge holden was a product of that environment and the description of his actions in the novel were consistent with the acts of other persons of that period... he was just one of many...

[@Nabo42]

@@superman9772 Indeed.

[@RandAlThor-ow1lq]

Obviously man was the real judge

[@Ligierthegreensun]

The point of the book has always touched upon the warlike nature of humanity. In many ways the book can be surmised in the Judge’s speech on war. Rather than being some embodiment of war or the devil, or a demon, the Judge is the embodiment of humanity’s worst traits; his love of war and violence, rape, and murder and his ability to do horrendous and despicable things (the rape and murder of children, cannibalism, etc). McCarthy is lamenting how those parts of humanity follows him wherever he goes, and doesn’t sleep (it happens all over the world every day) and it will never die out so long as humanity exists.

[@Battleatchivamaugs]

Damn that's good! I originally was leaning more towards the judge being the devil, but this makes more sense

[@Happyheartmatt]

@@Battleatchivamaugswouldn’t the devil as a construct be the same figure of representation in religion of human evil, not a supernatural being.

[@janllh24]

Beware specious universalism, 'who' appoints themselves the judge of what's constitutive of 'humanity' in all its 'history', adjudicates what belongs strictly to history qua contingency, and to a supposed 'essence' that is the constant subject of the former ? Does something specific, eminently historical, conceal itself behind the mask of the universal?

[@Ligierthegreensun]

@@janllh24 word salad masturbation might make you feel intellectual but in future could you just do it on your own rather than on a public forum?

[@IIISWILIII]

​@@Ligierthegreensundoing their best Judge impression... quite well actually! 😂

[@mattevanswastaken]

There are two charecters in all off the books I've read that have really struck an deep interest in me. They are Judge Holden from BM and John Coffey from the green mile. I feel like they are representations of polar opposite spiritual forces.

[@lionofapollo4636]

Lol

[@ubt3606]

Lol

[@theuno9799]

Lol

[@bobthabuilda1525]

@@theuno9799I think this is a brilliant comment, actually. I had never thought about how these two characters were perfect mirror opposites

[@palestalemale8831]

The showdown would be epic.

[@Hoganstan]

the judge making gunpowder wasnt supernatural, because brimstone (sulphur) is an ingredient in gunpowder. he just knows the chemistry

[@TheSmily-x3i]

It's supernatural because he's makes gunpowder in the same way the devil makes it in paradise lost.

[@patrickmcelrath4962]

And potassium nitrate from the urine!

[@Hoganstan]

@@ficheye00 why would you get chemistry information from linkedin

[@-ICITRONSI-]

he made it so quickly it would be impossible for him to build and use a furnace like how he did in the book

[@CountDoucheula]

Chinese been doing it for thousands of years

[@aidanfarnan4683]

One strong argument for The Judge being Satan or Lucifer, not mentioned in Vile Eyes video, is the inscription on his gun, "Et in Arcadia ego": *In the garden I was there also.*

[@BananaBanditos]

That and in his backstory introduction to the Glanton gang, how they met in a volcano and his description of creating gunpowder is a direct 1-1 reference to "Paradise Lost" Or the story of Satan's deception of humankind and the introduction of the ability to sin and to die upon humanity.

[@Smoovesquid]

Last scene he says, “there can be only one beast”.

[@bgilley8199]

I think it's made clear at the end with the dancing reference...dancing with the Devil indeed.

[@keithcarpenter2563]

He’s introduced in the novel as Satan when he walks in and accuses the reverend

[@NiarahHawthorne]

I have an alternative idea: he curates the image of being Satan, but is not Satan himself.

[@zambeazy]

i don’t think blood meridian would work as a movie, but i’ve always thought the most interesting way to adapt the book would be as a show. maybe 6-10 1 hour episodes, but the catch is every episode has different actors to sort of portray the different ways the characters are viewed by the readers. the one constant, however, would be the judge.

[@IsaacV2001]

I’ve found myself thinking that I’d like to see certain scenes from the book adapted to a sketch, to see how the aesthetic plays out on screen. The scene that I always think of is “The kid and Shelby.” It has all of the workings of a story contained within, and enough stake and character to leave an impact after watching.

[@BetoGames]

A comic book would be great

[@crazychase98]

You do them as a bunch of pennydreadfuls with gothic horror element's and the constant would be judge holden and you call the shorts The judge

[@joevanweedler]

cool idea with the different actors. i agree it shouldn't be a movie but several long episodes of a very detailed show. nothing cut, nothing softened or altered for TV. the book deserves that and nothing else would do it justice.

[@sejredyr166]

This is such a good idea!!

[@9148H2]

One could argue that the Judge is a cosmic horror entity and represent the violence and cruelty of the universe. Like in the Cthulhu Mythos, the character Nyrolothotep who wonders the world in various guises and loves to manipulate mankind to create chaos, violence, and war, because he sees Humanity as his plaything and enjoys the chaos that he brings into the hearts of men.

[@BNK2442]

I love how McCarthy was able to create the feeling the Judge is other than human without at any moment showing he doing nothing explicit supernatural.

[@mattevanswastaken]

@BNK2442 Yeah it's almost as if his mastery of all skills and knowledge could only be acquired by man who has lived forever. That is the proof provided that backs up the statement that he never sleeps and never dies.

[@brennancarter7721]

There is a lot of speculation that the Judge is based predominantly on Gnostic Archons. If you look into it it’s really fascinating.

[@VidaBlue317]

Being the brightest among The Judge's crowd is like being the smartest kid who rides the short bus. EDIT: I wonder how The Judge would fare among the literate - he'd have to adjust his tactics.

[@malvo5190]

Reminds me of Lorne Malvo from Fargo

[@realtoast7036]

I just finished this novel. Throughout the book, the way Judge is described at various parts - giant, nude, hairless, imposing, dominant etc. - strikes me as being representative rather than any actual individual. Like an infant US, or the spirit of a massive, powerful cherub, unaware and uncaring of its power or even a sense of its evil as the gang (perhaps representing Eminent Domain and expansion) destructively rolls through the West. Judge is the Kid's own tortured conscience, randomly and oddly appearing (as when Kid is in jail awaiting is own hanging). We know he's following the kid, and the kid had opportunity to kill Judge, but didn't. Instead, the Kid was able to temporarily expunge the imagery, guilt, shame, self-loathing during his twenties and thirties, only to later return when Kid is the Man. I'm thinking this is the conscience and revisiting of his (Man's) own evil and horrible doings. The dance is the madness roiling in the Man's thoughts as he revisits his awful sins, culminating in the Man violently ending his horror by killing himself in the outhouse. In fact, maybe The Kid, himself, is representative of the adolescent country, and its revisiting its own horrible past as it becomes the middle aged adult.

[@brennancarter7721]

Brilliant analysis, you made me think.

[@BuenoMcgurski]

I like the one

[@Happyheartmatt]

Great insight

[@richardbuckley1232]

This is a great reading, but there is a solid hint that the Judge rapes the Man in the outhouse before he murders him. Any thought on this in your reading?

[@samhainabyss]

definitely the embodiment of “the state”, maybe kind of like mr world in american gods?

[@2pacula780]

"It's judging time" has to be his best quote during the Cavalry ambush

[@fgcpeak9591]

facts. I stood up and cried when he said that.

[@shreddedbagelwabiwabo8342]

Especially when he bled all over the place like a meridian 😢

[@walterfechter8080]

Obviously, The Old West nurtured a lot of legends. A renegade so-called "judge" would fit right in. Roy Bean was a real guy and whose life was the stuff of folklore. Thanks, Re:wire.

[@frend1220]

In my humble opinion the book just tells you who the judge really is, in the very beginning when he first steps into that tent.

[@karlwikman3874]

I'm convinced Judge Holden survived into the 21st century and reappeared under the alias "Sundowner" in Metal Gear Rising

[@Rewiretube]

Hideo Kojima almost certainly loves Blood Meridian, right?

[@happymaskedguy1943]

How to go from high art to tacky trash in one step.

[@TheRealSillyMakotoYuki419]

@@happymaskedguy1943you saying metal gear sucks?

[@pigeonhunter7909]

He does have very striking similarties to the Judge, now that I think about it.

[@srbrant5391]

Can we just stop and admit that the portrait of Judge Holden in the thumbnail is one of _the_ most terrifying works of fan art in history? Yes yes, there's tons of fan art that make our eyes bleed and venture into the realms of the literally unspeakable, but that particular painting conveys all the nihilism, brutality and lawlessness of the novel. Like every curve, contour, angle, shade and stroke in that portrait echoes the inhumanity of _Blood Meridian._ And that _FACE..._

[@Rewiretube]

That was the thing that got me to read the book. Someone on Reddit was talking about scary literary villains, and shared that picture. I was like WELL I guess I’m reading this

[@Literallyryangosling777]

Imagine just being in the middle of monument valley and you just found youserlf with this creepy 7 foot tall fat and strong dude

[@jackruby6696]

Judge holden is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse:war

[@flatujalok]

8:36, I don’t think the judge was draped in another man’s clothing, he was draped in meat. I’ve read this book over 20 times, it is one of my all time favorites. Thanks for the video!

[@metsrus]

He's like that supervillain mutant from the X-men, Apocalypse. Believed to be the first mutant, who also stood 7 ft tall, he lived throughout different ages of human history, acquiring a vast and superior knowledge on all things, and inciting wars and pestilence where ever he went. In fact, in one of the passages, McCarthy did indeed defined Judge Holden as a "mutant". "In that sleep and in sleeps to follow the judge did visit. Who would come other? A great shambling mutant, silent and serene." Both characters appeared at around the same time. I wonder if the creation of the comic book character was inspired by McCarthy's Blood Meridian character.

[@Rewiretube]

Funnily enough, Apocalypse debuted in 1986, only a year after Blood Meridian!

[@metsrus]

@mugetszangetsjushou I really like how eerily similar their lines are too. Judge Holden: Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. Apocalypse: There exists no freedom from me. There is only freedom through me.

[@saidi7975]

You are not wrong. Though unlike the Judge, Apocalypse is not pedophilic and views beings around as projects with potential or wretches to be eliminated. He is also more of a nomadic barbarian as empires to him are part of a cycle. Judge Holden however is dripping malice, guile and depravity.

[@metsrus]

@@saidi7975 yeah didn't the Judge see potential in the Kid in the beginning. "I'll speak softly. It's not for the world's ears but for yours only. Let me see you. Dont you know that I'd have loved you like a son?" When they met again in the last chapter, the Judge said how the Kid was a disappointment to him

[@Mr.En1gm4]

I think the war parallel is not only in the fact that he admires it, but in the way he describes it: The ultimate trade (which was always there) waiting for his ultimate practitioner. Directly mirroring the Judge waiting for the outlaws, he was always there, just waiting to join them.

[@broccoli919]

My favorite part of the book is when they ask “What do you want to be when you grow up Holden?” And replies “the catcher in the rye” 😊

[@SenkaBandit]

Beautiful

[@HandsomeLongshanks]

5:50 iirc, he used bat guano too, which containes potassium-nitrate, a vital component of gunpowder.

[@MichaelAnderson-ky1kc]

When he makes gunpowder the judge is paralleling satan in paradise lost. The actual judge Holden probably wasnt bald, at the time hairless just meant no facial hair

[@JacobWoolf-sc9hc]

I think he's just a sociopath with a genius level intelligence, probably has PTSD from being an officer during the Texas revolution. But is so self aware that he knows all this about himself and just decides to revel in the same trauma and violence that created him believing himself to be the better man simply because he's honest about himself and the nature of man

[@goodlife1581]

Ya I agree

[@ThievesInTheTreasureRoom]

No

[@MrCmon113]

Probably quite intelligent, but you can fool people into believing that you're much smarter than you are. Especially if you have no problems with grandiose lies. I've met people like that and they made quite an impression.

[@annegrohs6181]

While you're free to hold such an opinion, I can seriously believe anyone who has read the book would hold such an opinion. McCarthy's writing is full of the supernatural. The books lacking supernatural elements are outliers. Blood Meridian is not an outlier. An interpretation where the judge is simply an intelligent sociopath would be a forced reading indeed. And like much bad criticism, such a claim cannot be entertained for long for anyone who reads the work rather than reads what they want into the work.

[@StandAsYouAre]

There is something to be said about people who have such blinding charisma they can convince weak minded people to do extremely horrible things.

[@ExtraLongHonkers]

took me 10 whole mins to realize they were two different dudes

[@thinkneothink3055]

I think that The Judge represents the spirit of manifest destiny. The end justifies the means, absolving all participating from moral responsibility. It doesn’t matter who dies, as long as we accomplish our goal. The Judge represents the American Spirit, even the American Dream, during the days of American conquest. I should say during the early days of American Conquest. Back when we carried out acts of genocide and other fun things like that.

[@joppejohn]

I thought the same thing when i read it! I think its certainly a valid Reading of Holden, this seems overlooked alot, the book really kills the entire Idea that the settling of america was benevolent and civilized in the slightest.

[@willywonka7812]

​@@bobdollaz3391 you sound like a fascist, but i wouldn't be the first to point that out

[@willywonka7812]

@@mstone-wd7kc I recognise fash, based on their talking points

[@willywonka7812]

@@mstone-wd7kc bobdollaz is nowhere near as overt as you, however

[@sejredyr166]

His accumulation and destruction of knowledge also points to this.

[@ElGeecho]

I enjoyed this video. I agree with your take on the novel. Blood Meridian was a compelling book, but I'm not sure I would ever be comfortable giving the book an unqualified recommendation. The final lines about Holden fiddling and dancing really do stick with you. I wonder if it would seem cheesy to someone who hasn't read the entire novel, but when you've gone through the journey it is a chilling ending.

[@JudgeFromBloodMeridian]

So guys, Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent.

[@Rewiretube]

Hey, Judge! Big fans.

[@JudgeFromBloodMeridian]

@@Rewiretube "whoever avoids evil, enters into fear itself" "those who have no inner demons are one themselves" "whoever fears the devil has the fear of their own weakness" "what evil feared is truth"

[@SairanBurghausen]

@@JudgeFromBloodMeridianHoly cringe

[@PeterPan-g8u]

​@@SairanBurghausen idk whats cringe about someone trying to give his own ideas. And how old are you...12? because no adult say's "Holy Cringe" and i know that you cannot even make up your own.

[@Slipp0000]

@PeterPan-g8usays Peter Pan wth 🤣

[@gorskieric2134]

The judge is dancing...and he will never die

[@erikjimenez8671]

You could say the judge is in the same category as Gunter O’ Dimm from the Witcher series. Entities beyond our understanding, as Gunter makes deals and collects souls while the judge documents events like a scribe

[@nobel7x777]

Personally, I feel like the Judge is the embodiment of the evil of man. This is evident by his love for war and the atrocities he commits throughout the book. Even the supernatural aspects of his character fit with this.

[@nomdeplume5446]

I think a film adaptation of this novel is impossible. To truly capture what the early days of colonizing the American West were like would be far too violent (physically, sexually, or mentally,) for even an R rating.

[@bruderschweigen6889]

No its not

[@nomdeplume5446]

@@bruderschweigen6889 yes it is

[@PrinceAliTheGreatest]

The violence isn’t the issue… The Boys TV series has an incalculable amount of violence & gore, both sexual & physical. (Probably) even more gore than Blood Meridian. But pretty much what makes it ACTUALLY difficult for an adaption too be made is it’s philosophical elements.

[@Aryan-qv5qk]

@@PrinceAliTheGreatest also child rape stuff might be hard to adapt

[@behuso]

Maybe the real Judge Holden were the friends we made along the way

[@vkpskulls]

I like to think that the Judge was a part of each of the Glantin gang. Each carried a piece of the monster. Thus his immortality. He lives on through the evil that men do. He is the “war” waiting for mankind from the beginning.

[@MrGeekSunda]

Another banger of a video guys.

[@Rewiretube]

Thanks!

[@r.w.bottorff7735]

If a proper film is made of this monumental book, it must be a work of art in it's own right, separate from, but relative to, the book. That is the real challenge of adapting this work.

[@vinm300]

Harold Bloom said, "I sometimes think the Judge is immortal"

[@MogMonster87]

I finished this book about a week back and I felt the main truth of the story was that anything is possible in life which when taking into account all the horrid things that happen in the book is actually quite scary and maybe the judge embodies that feeling.

[@TheMightyPika]

Blood Meridian could work as a game far better than as a movie.

[@stevewilson9778]

I've read the book a few times and my subjective opinion is that The Judge represents fate itself. The Judge himself is not evil. The Judge essentially holds up a mirror (figuratively speaking) to each of the characters to show them their own evil deeds. The Judge knows everything because he knows what's in the heart of each character and knows all of their thoughts and actions as if he is a projection of their own consciousness. By the time the Kid becomes the Man, he had spent his life outrunning the Judge (his own fate) by literally constantly moving and with half-hearted attempts to preach to others and atone for his actions. He had several chances to kill the Judge and never did. Why? You can't kill him because you cannot escape your fate. To kill the Judge in the story would have been symbolic of the Kid/Man literally getting away with all the stuff he did with that gang, which would have defeated the purpose of the story. The Judge himself is no more evil than any of the other characters in the Glanton Gang. He never forced them into doing anything. They all ultimately chose to do evil things and they were all "judged" for it appropriately. Their fates suited their deeds. I never saw Holden as a literal character. I don't necessarily think he was a hallucination, but he was fate manifested as a representation of the collective consciousness of the characters in the book, especially the Glanton Gang and even more especially the Kid/Man. Those are my 2 cents.

[@veganmagick7251]

Doesn't explain the missing children...he was definitely evil...fate wouldn't be so one sided if that were the case

[@stevewilson9778]

@veganmagick7251 I need to read the book again. Does it literally say that the Judge was responsible for the missing children or was it an allusion? If it was alluded to then it might not be so cut and dry. Know what I mean? I'd also like to add that from the reader's POV, the missing children indicates the "evil" nature of the Judge only if the reader has a strong moral compass and a general sense of humanity and sense of the difference between good and evil as a basic concept. As in, all readers would feel that way. However, from the Judge's POV, war is necessary. Everything that takes place in the story is necessary, including all atrocious acts. The men themselves do evil things but were duped into doing so under the guise created by the government that what they were doing was for the good of the nation. The fact that the Judge himself is indifferent to all of this does not necessarily suggest that he is evil, but that he may even transcend the human notion of good and evil, much like fate itself. Fate itself cannot be evil because if it was, then why would evil things happen to those missing children? (That's a rhetorical question, btw.) It's also important to note that I use the term "fate," which is a synonym of "destiny." The book itself mentions manifest destiny.

[@The-S-H3lf-Eater]

@@stevewilson9778 He isn't neutral or indifferent. In fact, he seems to petty, maybe even really petty. He says that he hates that birds have freedom. If he had control, he would just pluck their wings off and put them in a zoo. He doesn't ever directly kill somebody who is stronger than him or equal to him in every sense, right? I haven't read the actual book I have just seen stuff about it.

[@stevewilson9778]

@hobby4340 yeah I hear you. I might be thinking too much into it and projecting my own point of view onto the character. I'd like to hear from McCarthy himself in regards to the Holden character. There's too much going on in this story. All the ideas presented basically pre-date language itself. On top of that, he's using language that has gone extinct. I've only read the book twice and it was easier the second time around. However, for a book that's (roughly) 400 pages (can't remember the exact page count), it reads like a book that's over 1000 pages. Regardless of whether Holden is truly evil or not, I still have a hard time seeing him as a literal character. I wonder whether he was there physically or whether he was a figment of the characters' imagination? A manifestation of the collective conscience of the events in the story. I'll eventually read the book again when I'm up to it lol. Anyone else have any thoughts? Just seems like even though McCarthy isn't really being vague in his writing, there's something I'm missing. I watched some recorded University lecture that was posted on KZbin that caused me to read it a second time because I had realized I misinterpreted quite a bit of it LOLOL.

[@lmenzol]

Such a dumb take…

[@lonl123]

Blood Meridian in my favorite book of all time. I struggled with the book for the first 40 or 50 pages, getting used to McCarthy's weird writing style...and then it just "Clicked" and I couldn't put the goddamn thing down. Read the book in two days....I wish I could somehow capture that flood of emotions and awe and puzzlement I had after just finishing the book. After going online and reading voraciously other peoples review of the book, I then did something I had never done before or since. I turned to page 1 of BM and read the entire book again. Even after reading the book 5 times now, I still am confused about what the hell it all means...I also flip flop on my interpretation of who or what Judge Holden was...From being just a very, very bad man...to being maybe the Devil himself. I've kind of settled with the fact that Holden is a representation of the evil of mankind....a personification of Manifest Destiny.....What it takes to conquer a wild, savage land. I live in the southwest and BM captures my imagination and also it terrifies me that just a few lifetimes ago, this was a very, very dangerous place to live, and If I were alone, the chances of me surviving would probably be pretty slim...and my bones would of joined the countless other souls that died here over the thousands of years humans have lived in this beautiful but dangerous land. Christ, I want to read the damn book again.

[@dflt5th]

Given the author's name, i can't help but think Holden was partly inspired by irish myth. He's similar to an incarnation of one of the Irish war goddesses. They pop up in random places throughout the mythology. They usually have strange abilities and a strange appearance and they're always starting wars or causing calamity.

[@myhaikaratesmellstillrocks6823]

Blood Meridian is an unbelievable read. Absolutely mindbending.

[@StandAsYouAre]

Cormac really loves creating the most horrific antagonists around doesn’t he? If Judge even got on film it he would stand right beside Cornac’s other nightmare inducing Anton.

[@fgcpeak9591]

Cormac mentions that The Judge is Anton's grandfather actually

[@idicula1979]

A very grim and bleak reading can see Judge Holden as the Id in all of us. As Tobin and the kid began to realize his cold charisma and reason seems to grow over a person the way our best wishes seem to fade with time. His myth almost make him not a man but a of immortality spirit the washes over every man.

[@sammyjoel123490]

That painting that you first show of the gang is chilling when you see the judge on his horse with a small child in his lap.

[@ttowntrekker5174]

Dee Brown published Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee in 1970. In graphic detail, it outlines the atrocities the US Government and States did to the various Native American tribes as a part of westward migration in the mid 1800's, including bounties issued for scalps and the scalp hunting that occured. I've thought for years that McCarthy may have fictionalized details from Browns novel for Blood Meridian. You might check it out. It's an excellent read.

[@Rewiretube]

Go check out our video on the Sand Creek Massacre. Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee was the book that began our research into Sand Creek! If you like Dee Brown’s work, check out Heartbeat of Wounded Knee- it picks up where Bury My Heart leaves off.

[@publiusventidiusbassus1232]

I don't know, while the atrocities against Natives are a regular theme in the book and McCarthy's work, I don't think McCarthy chose this setting it as some form of literary activism or for socio-political moralist commentary. He's very brutally honest about not only the savagery of "civilized societies" like the expanding US or Mexico, but he completely stripped any sense of romance from the Natives too. The roaming tribe from the first arc of the book is pretty much characterized like a giant plague of locusts, seeding destruction and ruin wherever they go; it makes it very clear that the US and Mexican authorities aren't singling them out of imperialist alarmism, they are a very real, and a very evil force themselves. I think this period perfectly encapsulates Blood Meridian's motif of the perpetual self-sustaining war within mankind. The Comanches feel entitled to commit unspeakable horrors against American and Mexican settlers not only out of the deep resentment from the occupation of their lands, but also out of their own celebration of brutality from their war-like cultural values. In part, this causes the "settled" societies to seek increasingly destructive punitive campaigns, emboldened by their own sense of moral indignation against what they see as inhuman barbarians, and the value they put in their "world-building" endeavors over basic human dignity. The act of scalp-taking is directly adopted from the Natives, for example, and is a regular image throughout the narrative. Its the theme of ciclical cruelty. Holden's speech about societies that build vs societes that don't, in my opinion, drives home the idea that their age is not one to be measured in morality, but simply circumstance, as the period is not, in fact, particularly dark in the long history of humanity's black deeds. The Natives aren't displaced because they're inherently inferior, nor are the settlers able to expand ruthlessly because they're uniquely evil. It is a matter of resources and fate, which is as changing as the wind. Wether it is tribes or empires, the horrors remain the same.

[@Rewiretube]

Good analysis

[@bongboi2831]

@@publiusventidiusbassus1232damn bro literally just talking to talk, natives didnt scalp eachother also. Europeans did that first

[@custardgannet4836]

Great video guys, very interesting.

[@forex_shark6042]

idk if Jesse Ventura can actually act but for some reason I think he would make a good Judge in film.

[@yucatansuckaman5726]

I can hear the voice I agree.

[@johnk.7523]

His face isn't childlike enough imo

[@AuraAkurie]

I personally think a good Blood Meridian movie is possible, however, the problem is that in order to make said good movie you cannot pull any punches with it. The violence and depravity is a core aspect to the book and considering how things are with the media these days, I just can't see anyone allowing it to be made without a lot of interference being involved and essentially worsening the movie.

[@agsemerjian]

Did McCarthy read Lovecraft? If so I suggest the Judge is an avatar of Nyarlathotep.

[@Annihilation_Studios]

In my opinion. The book has absolutely no references to Lovecraftian legend or theming. So having Cormac McCarthy suddenly whip out the Lovecraft card on us seems a little... Unlikely

[@BuenoMcgurski]

Cormac said himself that making a film adaptation is possible. It just requires “balls”. I imagine if a film adaptation was to manifest, it would resemble something like the adaptation of the novel “Naked Lunch” (1959) by William S. Burroughs. The novel was often said to be impossible to film. However in 1991 David Cronenberg managed to pull of the impossible. The film has many aspects of the book itself, and in it’s own right, is just as bizarre, grotesque and intriguing. However, the original work has basically no structured narrative, and is almost a collection of surreal, perverse, and thought provoking scenes loosely based around a few recurring characters. With some confidence from studio executives, a strange mind for the genre of science fiction and horror, and definitely some “balls”, Cronenberg was able to pull off a masterful re-imagination of the story to which the original author, Burroughs (who was often critical of everything) actually approved of. The film is one of my favorites of all time, and aside from David Cronenburgs 1982 masterwork “Videodrome”, the film may be his Magnum Opus.

[@Rewiretube]

I love Videodrome

[@BuenoMcgurski]

@@Rewiretube When Max kills Barry Convex and then jumps on stage and shouts at the audience “Death to Videodrome! Long live the New Flesh!”, as if anyone knows what he is talking about.

[@prof.badfellow9868]

One might say the Judge’s "faith" is based in war and science. Perhaps it is better to view the Judge more as an embodiment than a supernatural entity, although elements of both certainty do apply. Great content and analysis, by the way

[@johndread1724]

The judge seems to me to be an embodiment of modern war, obsessed with control and intrinsically intertwined with - and corrupting of - science.

[@johndread1724]

There's a reason it's set in the old West, smack dab in the midst of the industrial - and a scientific - revolution, and the start of mankind's systematic destruction of nature and themselves.

[@RecordedMercury]

I do find it strange that Holden was an extremely well educated man, yet only known by an alias. A very peculiar case and an ink blot in history

[@Ealsante]

There's actually an interesting parallel in how the Judge says that war was always waiting for man, and how he himself was just at the volcano when the Glanton Gang arrived. He was waiting for them. The ultimate trade awaiting the ultimate practitioners.

[@kommando5562]

As they say he represented the “evil of those days”. I’d say he’s a mix of all these cool filabuster guys you named mixed with evil stuff that inevitably always happens in war and with humanity.

[@manfmalachi]

The judge was written about so we could have knowledge of him. Now he has our consent MindBLOWN

[@wobblertv8083]

In my opinion he was a dark djinn or a lovecraftian style old god .

[@tibboocelot9272]

An adaptation of Blood Meridian would be insane for Tarantino's last film

[@aaronl221]

Respectfully I do not think Tarantino should be entrusted to make a film adaptation of Blood Meridian

[@Trenz0]

​@@aaronl221to be fair who would?

[@Zionswasd]

​@@Trenz0 coen brothers could do it, but not in one movie, it would take a 10 part series or something

[@kthxpls]

@@Zionswasd Something like this would never work or have the original material respected, since every single modern movie and tv show, are basically leftists political agendas full of forced representation of groups of people, I would never watch Blood Meridian if it made today.

[@Death138death]

I’ve just recently come across this novel. I really want to get a copy and read it. I’m so intrigued. I’m honestly really surprised a film hasn’t been adapted sooner.

[@Sygg-uj3ze]

26:38 This would explain the "tantric conditional immortality" attempted with those "husks", that is, the yeeted "gentile" offspring. IF this is in fact the guy.

[@steveclare116]

I'm aware a film adaptation is underway. I would have liked to have seen how the late Sam Peckingpaw would have adapted this work to the screen.

[@ficheye00]

It's bound to be disappointing. I wish people would just let the book stand on its own. I mean, are they really going to show a bush where they hung dead babies by their jawbones? I think not.

[@1sihingable]

I couldn't finish just listening to it. I feel one would have to be a sociopath in order to finish this book without difficulty. The inhumanity of humanity is actually a very human thing to be; God save us. Thank you for this.

[@zerowastecalifornia]

He is the most evil character I have ever encountered in any story. Great video!! Thank you :)

[@matthewscully2475]

Not a real-life model but I suspect that Kurtz from Heart of Darkness might be a literary progenitor for Holden. Obviously Kurtz doesn't have Holden's physicality but both are hairless and deathly pale- the whitest of white men. Both are impeccably intelligent, cultured and charismatic while also being astonishingly violent and cruel. Both believe themselves to be something more than human and beyond morality. Holden indeed might not be human but Kurtz (spoiler alert for a 124 year old novel) dies saying 'the horror, the horror' suggesting he might have realised what he had become. I also think both novels share a similar central them- civilization is just a veneer and people can become monsters if the circumstances dictate.

[@headwhop26]

I used to teach Heart of Darkness! Love this comp

[@headwhop26]

I think Dan's drone shots really add a lot to this one

[@Rewiretube]

I think Jake's graphics really add a lot to this one.

[@headwhop26]

Thumbs down 👎

[@dantediss1]

Book of Enoch says " NOAH " was an Albino... The Judge LOVES to Catalogue EVERY living thing he can so as to Determine its Worth. Just Interesting

[@Rewiretube]

Cool connection

[@hhooligan2109]

Always felt the Judge was a Djinn/Jinn. He was placed in the way of the Glanton gang to destroy and hold them accountable for their bloodlust. Not an original theory, but the one that makes the one that makes the most sense to me. Thanks for the great video.

[@grimtea1715]

I think he gets compared to one when the fortune teller is telling the gang their fortunes

[@publiusventidiusbassus1232]

I fundamentally reject the idea that the Judge's existance is tied to any sort of morality system, or that he's some form of "punishment". Holden is the deepest and most insidious avatar of darkness, and exists and does as he does for his own amusement.

[@tokebak4291]

@@publiusventidiusbassus1232 You should read to book.

[@final_animal]

He saved their lives by appearing and both enabled and encouraged them to commit their worst acts of violence. They would have all died before they even got started if the judge hadn't rescued them in the desert.

[@PIRAKAS666]

nice work👍

[@r-saint]

It should be a 16-part TV series or something. With very high production value.

[@RecordedMercury]

I do believe to some degree the real judge holden was some sort of blip in history. A real case of an entity or something else walking the esrth, if only for a time.

[@princetchalla2441]

The scariest thing to me is that just about every man has the potential to become as well rounded as the judge. People who become polyglots, military training, and learning tricks from others around them seem almost mystical. And yet they walk among us every day. The only difference between Judge Holden and some of these renaissance men is their capacity for violence and refusal to act on those impulses. Not all well educated men are that benevolent though, and that’s why I see Judge Holden almost like a warning. The kid didn’t have it in him to kill the judge even if his own life depended on it, yet he is willing to be a passive observer at best or am implied accomplice to these acts of evil done unto others. We cannot turn a blind eye to the wicked people and their acts, and we must better ourselves to better deal with people as talented and malicious as the judge.

[@RecordedMercury]

@@princetchalla2441 I agree 100%. Though I do find it strange that the real Holden was just as educated, but there's no records of him. None that have survived anyway. Despite him being "one of the most educated man in Texas" there's no historical information on him. Very creepy indeed.

[@joshuabryk4316]

It was most likely this guy en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wilkins_Webber who used the pseudonym “Holden” but we don’t know for sure

[@idonhaveanyideawhattocallm1472]

I recommend looking up Oskar Dirlewanger, men like judge Holden are very real and very human

[@TheAce736]

Dancing and slashing at once. His feet are light and nimble. He never sleeps. He says "I'm fuckin invincible"

[@davidfleeman2610]

I dont want a movie because i feel it wouldnt be done right or theyd change way too much for "modern" audiences. I DO want a graphic novel on blood Merididan that gives us a taste of what some of these iconic people and scenes would look like

[@antoniovillarreal1203]

If they make a movie then Kane from WWE should play as the judge

[@jakobs.family.computer]

U want my 2 cents? I was born in the 80s, and havnt had a book able to grip me start to finish since r.l. Stein, which I hold as an accolade, cuz “I’ve read books. But much like many, my attention span is short, if at all. So I appreciate all you guys who have read the book for me, its mind blowing to me that I sat thru a 5 hours video reading this book to me, and I really appreciate people qualified as teachers to give me other perspectives to reflect on. This is good stuff. Do more and I’ll be happy, well I’ll try to be happy either way, but the key word is try, the rest is up to you guys, im sorry to tell you

[@Mr.Classic91]

"It's light on plot" *proceeds to discuss an abridged version of the plot for nearly half an hour * Okey dokey

[@headwhop26]

I mean, Ulysses is “a book about a guy who takes a walk” and it’s 900 pages

[@ahsuser]

Highly recommended IMO - I had the opportunity to teach this ten-ish years ago with a very cool Junior AP class (couldn't get away with it nowadays) and that was 100% the most fun class I ever taught. The novel is just so ... horrific, and while it's fiction, it reads true to the realities of the old West. I heard there's a movie in the works, which of course I'll have to see in the theater just to see how badly they botch it - Where's the Coen Bros when you need 'em? :)

[@Rewiretube]

You got to teach this?! So jealous

[@ahsuser]

@@Rewiretube I had five kids from my Sem 1honors Eng 11 that signed up for AP, before the local community college made it irrelevant with college 111 & 112. I had to buy the books myself, but it was a worthy investment. The class is still out there somewhere on blogspot (which has since been blocked by our school (??)). I still read BM about once a year, right along with 'Child of God.' I guess I'm a fan of Cormac's darker works, with the exception of 'The Road,' which I read once then a second time just to make sure the Zoloft was still working ...

[@pathfinderforgetool3549]

Saltpeter, charcoal, and sulfur make gunpowder. Brimstone is a fancy word for sulfur and saltpeter is potassium nitrate which you could (possibly) get from pee and charcoal from the oven he made, he just made really crude black powder

[@Nothingness687]

Speaking of real people in Blood Meridian I found an interesting detail. When Chamberlain joined the scalp hunters he says that he met some of his old comrades, who were Ben Tobin, Doc Irving and Sam Tate. When the gang members were doing their crimes in Yuma, Chamberlain along with Tobin, Marcus Webster and Tom Hitchcock decided to leave the gang, because they were disgusted with other’s behaviour. In BM we don’t know what exactly happened to Tobin, Irving, Tate and Webster. It’s never clearly stated that the Judge killed Tobin, we never knew if Webster and Irving died in Yuma, and we never knew what happened to Tate after the kid left him in the mountains (after the kid leaves it is said in the book that he hears shooting from a distance, which could be Tate fighting against Elias’s scouts). McCarthy never revealed the deaths of exactly those characters who were mentioned more frequently in Chamberlain’s memoirs, especially because real Tobin and Webster 100% survived.

[@shikanab]

A good blood meridian movie should be a mix of Bone Tomahawk and The Good the Bad and The Ugly. Chances of that happenning and being done well are so thin

[@ResidentNinja]

Any sort of theatrical adaptation of blood Meridian would have to be done in an animated probably with heavy comic book influence style so you could express the violence without endorsing it or fetishizing it

[@martinez5566]

There's no way Hollywood has it in them to adapt Blood Meridian faithfully. I'm not even sure it can be adapted faithfully. Due to the writing style, there are entire conversations where it's unclear who is even talking.

[@foxdiemmxx]

He’s the driving force for what became The American Dream.

[@ficheye00]

When they found the judge, they were watching the advancing band of Apaches as well. He had them go into a bat cave and collect the dung so he could extract the 'nitre' or nitrates. Then he had them walk up an old volcano with him. When they go to the top, they found pure sulfur. It was already mentioned that he had a bag with him that was filled with finely ground charcoal. After he'd powdered the ingredients, he had ALL of them pee on the mixture, using the moisture to keep it from exploding while he mixed it up. (Urine has some nitrates, but only unhealthy pee). Then they let it dry. It was gunpowder at that point. You just missed a few key details. I just read it again for the fourth time, but it was definitely possible to do, and gunpowder has been made this way since the war of 1812.

[@GordiansKnotHere]

Judge Holden was Manifest Destiny made flesh.

[@nate2064]

The problem with the phrase hairless is that it doesn’t mean what you seem to attribute it to the phrase hairless simply back, then meant without a beard, and you can tell because in Chamberlain’s account he has a drawing of the judge, lecturing people on geography, and he appears to have a full head of hair just no beard

[@edwarburton]

Great video

[@Rewiretube]

Thanks, Ed!

[@polish2x91]

If you lead with the research, rather than the whole long introduction, this channel may be more successful. If we're here to see who the judge is, we don't need 1/2 the video to be an explanation or recap of the judge. You can get that down to 2-3mins, and jump in. Your research is top notch.

[@Zachary_prince]

Maybe the real Judge Holden was the enemies we made along the way(instead of friends lol).

[@thepappi9]

i really enjoy his form as the devil in this book. maybe not literally, but the amount of references is absurd

[@man.actual]

Blood Meridian would be a good video game

[@cal4621]

He’s just a fallout character on their 5th play through

[@Rewiretube]

“I think I’m gonna play an evil character this time. Speech at max”

[@basementmadetapes]

The more I read BM the more I think the judge is some avatar or otherwise representation of war itself. In the two of instances u cite, he is described as basically waiting for the Glanton Gang to show up and later when he talks about war he says before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate practitioner for this ultimate practice. The gang are the literal men war waited for. Far as the movie goes, I think it would make a better limited series. A movie would be too short.

[@christhechilled]

9:47 if The Kid was truly dead, than the book would make note that “ A bloody naked Judge was dancing playing his violin. “ So what ever the Judge did to him was a fate worse than death.

[@kgilliagorilla2761]

A book about a book. Notes on Blood Meridian by John Sepich. A true companion to McCarthy’s grizzly novel. Chamberlain apparently rode with him. He is still dancing, I have no doubt.

[@Rewiretube]

We used some sections of Notes on Blood Meridian (the stuff we could find online) for researching this video!

[@kgilliagorilla2761]

@@Rewiretube Going into BM knowing it’s historic fiction, and then researching and finding facts in the fiction is chilling. I’ve re read BM several times, translated the Spanish, looked up the fauna, the towns, the trails. Read about the ferry massacre, the indigenous peoples, and what was happening in the country in those times. After all that what really stuck was when Holden said, “ War was always here waiting for us.” Like I said, chilling.

[@ghostforgotten281]

allegedly at the time, hairless did not mean bald, it meant clean shaven. I believe this is an illustration made by Samuel Chamberlain of the judge with a full head of hair.

[@sligoboy11]

My favourite part of blood meridian is when the judge said it’s judging time and protagonists got to use the rest room In peace

[@zbubby1202]

Just as an aside, the bit about the brimstone gunpowder making may sound fantastical and ridiculous, but it is actually clever chemistry. Your urine is the primary source of the potassium/sodium nitrate which has been used since the medieval era as the critical oxidizer in gunpower. The 'brimstone' is just describing geology of a volcanic origin, which will contain the sulfur; used as a catalyst to bring down the activation energy necessary to initiate combustion of the resulting powder. From there simple charcoal from a campfire can be used as the 'fuel'. So, fun fact for the day, your renal system is a built in gunpowder factory.

[@Beastlango]

It should noted the description used for his hair just meant he was clean shaven

[@SamuelGiles-op8gd]

Nice Deathchant shirt, cool vid.

[@Rewiretube]

Deathchant rules

[@IIISWILIII]

"Pleased to meet you. Hope you guess my name."