Who Were the Welsh-Connected Peoples of Scotland and England? Kingdom of Strathclyde and Hen Ogledd

Drone footage by Michael from mfj_living / mfj_living
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Who Were the Welsh-Connected Peoples of Scotland and England? The Kingdom of Strathclyde and the Hen Ogledd
Who were the people of the Kingdom of Strathclyde and the Hen Ogledd (Hen Ogleav), and what is their connection to Wales? Today, I’ve come to Dumbarton Castle, which sits on the volcanic plug know as Dumbarton Rock. Dumbarton, meaning fortress of the Britons, was the scene of countless epics down through history, including a Viking raid that I will explore in more detail later.
Dumbarton Castle was the capital of the Kingdom of Strathclyde, also know as the Alt Clut (meaning Rock of the Clyde), an early Brittonic kingdom that existed from around the 5th century to the 11th century. The people of the Kingdom of Strathclyde spoke Cumbric, a variety of the Common Celtic Brythonic language. Cumbric was very closely related to Old Welsh, and there are many more references to Wales in this story.
This is because the Kingdom of Strathclyde was part of what is called the Hen Ogledd in Welsh, or the Old North in English. It refers to a historical region in parts of southern Scotland and northern England that was inhabited by Brythonic people who spoke Cumbric. Interestingly, the Welsh word for themselves is Cymru, meaning fellow-countrymen.
Strathclyde was just one of many kingdoms and peoples in the Hen Ogledd. They included the Gododdin (Godovin), who inhabited a region of modern south-east Scotland and north-east England) and who were descendants of the Votadini; the Kingdom of Elmet who inhabited a region around West Yorkshire; and the Rheged (khreged) who inhabited the region around Galloway in modern Scotland and Cumbria.
There was, and still is, a strong affinity between Wales and the people of the Hen Ogledd. Perhaps part of the reason for this affinity is that some traditions state that an important Welsh leader called Cunedda, who lived from 386-460AD, came from the Kingdom of Gododdin (VIN) in the Hen Ogledd. Cunedda is said to have come from Manaw Gododdin, the modern Clackmannanshire region of Scotland, and settled in North Wales. He would go on to become the King of Gwynedd (Gwineth) in ancient Wales, and found the royal dynasty of the royal dynasty of Gwynedd.
The Men of the North are consistently referenced in Welsh literature, and with many heroes drawn from the Hen Ogledd. Coel Hen is one legendary figure for instance, a leader of the Brythonic peoples in the late Roman period and the progenitor of several kingly lines in Yr Hen Ogledd. Later legend spoke of him being the grandfather of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great.
If we turn our attention back to Kingdom of Strathclyde, Dumbarton was a defensive strong hold of the Kingdom, with Dumbarton Rock allowing them to control the shipping trade along the river Clyde.
Sources:
Scotsman - Ivar the Boneless and a brutal Viking invasion of Scotland www.scotsman.c...
Siege of Dumbarton en.wikipedia.o...
The Kingdom of the Britons www.bbc.co.uk/...
Kingdom of Strathclyde en.wikipedia.o...
Hen Ogledd, Wikipedia en.wikipedia.o...
Coel Hen, Wikipedia en.wikipedia.o...
Strathclyde, Britannica - www.britannica...
Cunedda, Wikipedia en.wikipedia.o...
History with Hilbert - The Old North: British Celtic Kingdoms in the North of England (Hen Ogledd) • The Old North: British...
Creative Commons Imagery:
Jakednb commons.wikime... Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. commons.wikime...
Notuncurious commons.wikime... Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. commons.wikime...
Llywelyn2000 /NLW commons.wikime... Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. creativecommon...
#scotland #wales #history

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Please let me know your thoughts below...

[@drewwilliams6888]

What a cracking video. Diolch yn fawr

[@michaelhalsall5684]

The Old North is a forgotten part of Britain's history. The modern names and borders of the current "British" nations, England, Scotland and Wales actually cause confusion when studying this period in British history. I'm pleased to hear you using terms like "Brythonic" to explain the language and culture of the people in the Old North. The term "Welsh" was a clumsy Anglo-Saxon term meaning "foreigner" and it meant more than a citizen of today's Wales. The Cornish people were labelled as "West Welsh" at one stage! When the Saxon arrived in Britain Brythonic languages were spoken from Cornwall up to Scotland.

[@Chris-mf1rm]

Good point about the modern nation states of GB. The names mark a much more nuanced picture and help give rise to the nonsenses of ethno-nationalism.

[@Cumbrianlad3363]

A few months ago I heard about Strathclyde and ever since I've wanted to learn more about it. The people who lived there, their language and culture and their history. Good video👍

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks James

[@alexanderguesthistorical7842]

Constantine The Great was too early for Coel Hen. The Constantine in question is Constantine III, who was eventually given co-Emperorship with the legitimate Roman Emperor Honorius in 409

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Good point. It's one of the legends at least, it's probably not true

[@Clans_Dynasties]

Great work as always

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Cheers buddy. I hope you're well.

[@Clans_Dynasties]

@@celtichistorydecoded im very well my friend, i hope you and yours are doing well, Just seen your on Tik Tok so ive followed there too.

[@celtichistorydecoded]

@@Clans_Dynasties Cheers buddy, I will need to use it a bit more.

[@alanthomas2064]

Yr hen ogledd the old north

[@paulstewart8459]

At least in my case, I believe I have demonstrable proof that this connection between Wales and the Old North (Cumbric-speaking Brythonic Strathclyde), is true. My YDNA, which is I2c (Neolithic, or pre-Celtic), connects to just (and only) two families in Strathclyde: a specific branch of Wallace as well as Goff (or "Walyes" (Welsh- meaning "Briton", and "Goch" (red-haired or red-complected). Wish we had written examples of Cumbric... maybe it exists undiscovered in a library somewhere... one can hope at least.

[@KrisHughes]

There are plenty of Welsh folk who would help you with your pronunciation (and plenty of online resources, too). It's worth getting these things right in your videos (ask me how I know!) (Okay, I know because I've actually removed videos from my own channel when I got pronunciation wrong.) Think how it makes you feel when people mispronounce Scottish words.

[@DeeplyStill]

Love this video. Thanks

[@drewwilliams6888]

I think the first recorded use of the Welsh language, was written in Strathclyde. I maybe wrong on this statement, please correct me.

[@claudiaclark6162]

Make Scotland Strathclyde again

[@owenprytherchking3124]

I can trace my family back to the Men of the North

[@maple1255]

I am enjoying listening to your voice and distinctive accent, from here in America. I appreciate you sharing about the Welsh connected people of Scotland and England. A good friend of mine on YT lives in Wales.

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks Maple1255

[@davidthomas1467]

Is your ascent Scottish or Welsh?

[@maple1255]

@@davidthomas1467 My friend's accent is Welsh

[@honved1]

I’m Welsh but I lived in gorgie for a while, I found out that it’s name comes from old Brittonic. The name is thought to be Brythonic in origin. Early forms suggest it derives from gor gyn - upper wedge - which may refer to the tapering shape of the land between the Water of Leith and the Craiglockhart hills.

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Class Micky, thanks.

[@TheEggmaniac]

Theres a lot of place names around Edinburgh that originate from Brythonic. Another is Penicuik ( from Pen Y Cog ) a little town on the outskirts. I m told it means the hill of the cuckoo, and is almost the same in Welsh.

[@celtichistorydecoded]

@@TheEggmaniac Brilliant, thanks Jack

[@melysmelys2622]

Allt Clud means 'the summit/peak of the Clud', (pronounced 'Cleed'). Ogledd is a 2-syllable word in which each syllable has equal emphasis in Welsh: og-ledd. Very interesting video.

[@stella8726]

Thankyou so much Steven. I’ve already watched it over a few times already. I hope to visit one day. Fun fact: Coel Hen is apparently the man in the song “Old King Cole was a merry old soul, and a merry old soul was he!”

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks Stella. Thanks for your suggestion, it was an interesting topic to research and Dumbarton Castle has been on my list of locations for a while now. It all came together nicely.

[@SassyTheSasquatch96]

All of my family originate back to stathclyde in records we can dig up, always found it to be a fascinating place.

[@rhobatbrynjones7374]

The emphasis is on the syllable 'Og' as in OGledd.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Hey, my USA friend just put me on you, I am from Carnarthenshire, Wales. Just told him I translated Carter Bar plaque to a half English half Scottish fella when we visited crossing there - he was amazed. Subbed. 👍

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks Huw. Glad to have you here.

[@vickyrowe393]

Ye can travel from asygarth to Midgard from Yorkshire is same as travelling from Godwine to gododdin. Is there a coiners cragg or any ravenstones near Arthur hill fort

[@mbluetraining]

Evidently, vast swathes of Ireland (15 %- 20%) - right up to the 15th/16th Century - Spoke Welsh! This was a result of a linguistic overhang from the 12th Century when thousands of Welsh settlers came with the Anglo-Norman knights in 1171.

[@adrianjones8060]

The Welsh alphabet is very different from the English because we have more vowels and letters .’ Allt’ means a hill and the the ‘ ll’ is pronounced through the side of your mouth ,as in ‘Ll’andudno or Llantrisant etc. The letter ‘U’ is pronounced like ‘ugh’ in English., as in Cymr’u’ The word Clud means ‘cosy’ or it can also mean ‘tranquil’ Diolch for the video. The connection between the Albanwyr and the Cymry is often forgotten, but never the less we are ultimately of the same Brythonic stock. 👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@egbront1506]

U is pronounced more like I in current Welsh. It is the Y, which is closer to "ugh" or schwa. The Y has another pronunciation, also like I. You just have to learn, which one is which for each word. Cymru sounds like Cumree in English spelling.

[@adrianjones8060]

@@egbront1506 Dwi ‘di bod n siarad Cymraeg am dros haner canrif…Beth am dan a ti? Mae’n amhosib cyfieuthy’r ddau iaith efo’i gilydd achos meant yn mor wahanol …ond fel’ a mae hi ynte?

[@micklivi92]

Great video. Keep up the good work!

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thank you, I appreciate it

[@ryankellypa]

this is where us Campbells come from?

[@Quacklebush]

Alt Clut was the capital of the Kingdom of Alt Clut, the kingdom being named after its capital. It was after the sack and loss of Alt Clut, that the power center moved further inland into the valley of the River Clyde. And once again the kingdom was named after its power center, Starthclyde, "strath (valley) of the River Clyde". So technically you are wrong when you claim Alt Clut was the capital of The Kingdom of Starthclyde.

[@alanthomas2064]

Dumbarton-fort of the britons

[@alanthomas2064]

Ystad clud- strathclyd

[@Quacklebush]

@@alanthomas2064 Dumbarton is the Scottish Gaelic name. Alt Clut means 'Rock of the Clyde' in Brythonic, the language spoken by the indigenous population.

[@paulseoighemcgee5772]

Fine history retelling , a chara , but don't forget to smile ! : )

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Cheers. I was so shattered when I was making this one. 70 hour weeks catch up.

[@noahtylerpritchett2682]

The old north is called the old north but hilariously it stretches as far south as Shropshire and Gloucester because of the ancient kingdoms of Glouvia and Luitcoyt.

[@Chris-mf1rm]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing this. This part of the history of these isles should be more widely known.

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thank you

[@brettrichards2972]

Once again man great job very well-researched and you pick very interesting parts of British and Celtic history to go over parts of the been ignored by a lot of mainstream historians I've always found the kingdom of strathclyde to be very interesting because I think more likely that they were a pictish king developed Roman features on the other side of Hadrian's Wall due to their proximity

[@bertberto5671]

Great as always TY

[@celtichistorydecoded]

Thanks Bert Berto, I hope you're good.

[@bertberto5671]

@@celtichistorydecoded I am TY, I hope you are too.

[@jmyd83]

👍