Who Would WIN: Tom Bombadil vs. Morgoth?

[@JeremyKenny-h9p]

Hmm. Morgoth, who literally made the entirety of Arda his ring, and once held all of the Valar at bay aingle-handedly, or Bombadil, whose single note-worthy act of power was being unaffected by Sauron's trinket. I think he'd find Morgoth a bigger challenge than a willow or a barrow-wight. The wisest beings in Middle-Earth claimed he couldn't withstsnd Sauron. And Sauron is no Morgoth.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Fair point! Morgoth’s power was on a whole different scale. But there’s always been something mysterious about Bombadil that makes him hard to fully grasp. It’s fun to speculate how he might handle a challenge like that!.

[@sabineb.5616]

​@@Taleof_fellowship, Maybe, Tom Bombadil could hold his ground against Sauron for a while - if he doesn't forget that Sauron actually exist 😉 But Morgoth is not a fallen angel like Sauron, he is a fallen god, and only Eru is more powerful. I don't think that Tom Bombadil's origins are shrouded in mystery. Tom was a so-called Dutch doll which belonged to the Tolkien children and looked exactly like Tolkien described Tom. The doll was present in many adventures of Tolkien's bed time stories for his children. That's the reason for Tom's slightly goofy songs and funny rhymes. They are private nursery rhymes which Tolkien invented for his kids 😊 And when Tolkien said that Tom was the oldest being in Middle Earth and that he was there before everything else, this was literally true. Tom had been there before Tolkien started to write the LOTR trilogy. If one knows this back story, it's easier to understand why Tom Bombadil is such a strange being and so different from all the other LOTR characters. He is a remnant of the children's childhood and a symbol for more innocent and protected times. Tom and Goldberry help and shelter the hobbits like a father and a mother who help their children to get out of trouble or console them after a bad nightmare. But when the hobbits leave Tom and Goldberry for good, the hobbits are on their own and they have matured a bit. And after the Tom-Bombadil interlude, which was written more like "The Hobbit", Tolkien's style had changed and matured. He was now an author who wrote for grown up readers. So, Tom Bombadil's origins aren't really mysterious, and l think that Tolkien loved to obfuscate Tom's story a little bit. It may have been a bit of an insider joke 😉 That said, the question why Tolkien decided to put the doll of his children in his LOTR novels, although Tom was a bit of a misfit, is interesting. Maybe, the answer is somewhat trivial, and his children enjoyed that the beloved doll who was a hero of their childhood bedtime stories, had a place in Tolkien's epic saga about good and evil. Maybe, the chapter about Tom and Goldberry helped Tolkien to leave writing for children behind for good. The hobbits had matured, and Tolkien's style had matured as well. And if we consider Tom Bombadil's origins - maybe he can beat Morgoth after all! Childhood heroes can do that 😉

[@Taleof_fellowship]

@@sabineb.5616 What a fascinating take on Tom Bombadil! I love your point about him being a symbol of childhood and innocence. It’s true that his whimsical nature and songs reflect that playful spirit Tolkien shared with his children.You’re right-Tom’s presence in The Lord of the Rings adds a unique layer to the story. It’s like a reminder of simpler times before the darker themes take over. And your idea that Tom could hold his ground against Sauron is intriguing! After all, childhood heroes often embody a special kind of resilience.Tolkien's ability to weave his personal history into his work adds so much depth. Thanks for sharing these insights!

[@sabineb.5616]

@@Taleof_fellowship , thanks a lot 😀 I am very glad you like my thoughts! And l hope you didn’t think that I wanted to criticize you and your very thoughtful video essay! I have wrestled many years with Tom Bombadil. I always liked that interlude and that the four hobbits had a wonderfully safe haven at least for two nights) - or was it three? I think there was a rainy day in between, and Tom and Goldberry didn't want to send them away in such bad weather 😀 But l could never work out how Tom and Goldberry fit into the greater world of Tolkien. But when l learned that Tom was a beloved doll of the Tolkien children, it was suddenly not so cryptic anymore. I have to check how old Tolkien's children were, when the first novel of the LOTR trilogy was published. I think that all of them had left the household long ago. But can you imagine how pleased they must've been when they learned that their Tom had found a permanent place in their father's grand saga about good and evil? 😉

[@AmariWang-v5w]

While I get your point, I think your point would be more effective without some of its exaggerations (e.g. calling the One Ring a 'trinket' or suggesting Morgoth did not utilize allies in what limited dominion he held on middle earth or that such dominion was uncontested.) The fact that he ultimately lost helps us to understand this hyperbole even if we can accept that Morgoth was indeed a power to be feared and reckoned with.

[@AmariWang-v5w]

I heard a theory once that aligns with some of the views shared in this video that I liked: Tom Bombadil is either the embodiment of Arda in its pure, intended state or the embodiment of the music that brought Arda into being. He is potentially as immovable as a mountain and as unstoppable as a raging river. His resistance to harm is beyond the human scale. Destroying him takes the same amount of effort as reshaping Arda itself. Tom's two biggest limitations are 1) that his abilities are linked to his environment (the more like Arda's natural state, the more powerful--the more he is in a corrupted environment the less powerful) and 2) he is not inclined to wield his potential power as actual power in conflict with those around him. If Morgoth went to Tom's house and forced a melee, Morgoth would get curb-stomped. If Morgoth corrupted Arda until his corrupt vision was all that was left, I don't know that there would be Tom Bombadil left for a fight.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Linking his power to the environment makes sense, as Tom seems tied to the natural world. It also explains why he doesn’t actively engage in conflicts-his strength isn’t about exerting dominance but maintaining balance. The thought of Morgoth confronting Tom on his own turf is interesting. It seems Tom would stand strong in his domain, but if all of Arda fell to corruption, Tom might indeed fade along with it.

[@sicilianmammalian]

Eru creates harmony, Morgoth creates disharmony, Eru creates jazz

[@Taleof_fellowship]

So basically, Morgoth dropped a bad solo, and Eru had to bring the jazz to fix the whole vibe? Middle-earth really is the ultimate jam session gone wrong!

[@cuebj]

@@Taleof_fellowship Brilliant pair of comments

[@davidbellamy2612]

What is most important is that Tolkien saw his creations as real and as such he had no right to change them. Tom is a character from one of Tolkien's early children's stories; someone who had huge whimsical power within his own realm and when transplanted into Middle Earth Tolkien had to seriously think how Tom would react to this new world. As such, Tolkien had to tell his story as through the eyes of some one who had existed before anything else, who had certain ways of behaving and talking simply because it was true; he existed before Tolkien had devised Middle Earth. Tom had sort of watched Middle Earth evolve from afar. With regards to Tom's encounter with Morgoth one would be tempted to imagine Tom being overpowered by Morgoth but then waking up in his original bed in the world he had been created for and one he had not seen for tens of thousands of years, and think he had just had a really long dream that had ended with a bit of a nightmare. He then got up put on his hat and went to check if everything was doing okay; almost forgetting Middle Earth in a heart beat.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Thank you for sharing such thoughtful insights! It's always a pleasure to delve deeper into Tolkien’s world and explore the intricacies of his characters.

[@cuebj]

Well. Bombadil did pre-exist and exist separately from the stories of LoTR and Silmarillion. He was a separate toy who entered the world in the story

[@meganhuggins7494]

Tolkien said in an interview that he only put him in LOTR as a diversion for the Hobbits on their journey, an adventure, but is not an important character and served no other purpose. He is not Maia, Valar or any other supernatural being, he is an enigma. He could be removed from the story and it would not affect the outcome. He is not part of the legendarium.😊

[@jamesrodgers5422]

It would probably play out like Buggs Bunny vs Elmer Fudd.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Haha, that’s a great way to put it! Bombadil and Morgoth would definitely be a unique match-up.

[@CE77777]

I mean for me the best way to look at it is that Bombadil is the incarnation of the song the Ainur sang to bring the world into existence, what that allows him to do is yet to be seen but it lends credence to the idea that the same power of that song used to create form out of nothing is within him That being said, Morgoth has power so great it has the capacity to corrupt that same song entirely, so I think even when giving Bombadil that much grace you still cannot find an outcome in which he wins Naturally he is always so jolly & carefree though because he is likely aware of the creator (Eru’s) intentions to preserve the world & not let it full eternally into shadow, and because of this unwavering faith he goes about his day without a care in the world 🤷🏾‍♂️ That’s just my theory based on what I know of Tolkiens works though, do with that what you will 🫴🏾

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Interesting take! Personally, I’m more convinced by the theory that Tom Bombadil represents Tolkien himself within his world. I know it’s difficult to determine the outcome of a fight between them, but in my opinion, Morgoth is indeed more powerful as a fallen god. However, I have a slight belief that Tom could possess a hidden power capable of countering even Morgoth, especially if the theory that he is Tolkien was correct.

[@jedthezed3599]

This is a pretty good video...subbed!! 😊

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Thank you so much for subscribing! I appreciate the support!

[@ericfaith2810]

Tom Bombadil was always rumored to be Eru Iluvatar"s chosen form to assume to enjoy his creation. If that be true, of course the God of Tolkien's universe would win, but Professor Tolkien did readers a favor by being ambiguous about Bombasil. Ugh, how I wish Peter Jackson would have had him in the Fellowship of the Ring.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Indeed, Tolkien definitely left Bombadil’s true nature open to interpretation, which makes him such a fun character to discuss. And yeah, it would have been awesome to see him in the movies.

[@G31M1]

So you think he could be like the LotR Jesus? xd

[@DanLeaming]

I kind of look at Bombadil as a character like Melchizedek. No known parents, no beginning, but worthy of a tithe from Abraham. Paul said Jesus was a priest in the line of Melchizedek.

[@richardsmith988]

There is a lot of Tom Bombadil that is a simple reality aligned with nature or as we experience it as flow-of-energy. This points to the illusions created by those that imprisoned Sauron and over time, set him free. The one ring in itself is a manifester of illusion for the wearer. But Tom is unaffected by illusion or anything related to illusion. Tom is more of the core values of NLP; Love, beingness, oneness, okay-ness, and inner peace. This shows Tom as self-mastered. Goldberry is a manifestation of Nature in its source value; she is a living manifestation of nature. This parallels Nature and Hern, and Tolkien clearly knew about pagan beliefs as a far more ancient form of religion. This points to an origin of religion manifested in real form. Everything ages in his world of Middle Earth, and this points to a source of positive energy.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Great analysis, seeing Tom as aligned with pure energy and unaffected by illusions adds depth to his role. Goldberry as a symbol of nature is a beautiful touch.

[@richardsmith988]

@@Taleof_fellowship I find it interesting that we know even less about Goldberry. Yet she simply is, just as Nature exists in reality; a living example of natural beauty that Tom simply loves and gives him purpose. This is a very Zen-Taoist interpretation of existence, where mindfulness meditation is simply experiencing existence with your senses, both physical and intuitive. This makes one aware of effortless effort (what is seen as constant flow of energy), this mirrors what the Japanese see as "Mushin" - action without conscious thought. Gandalf just is as well, his presence focuses those around him by his simply stating the obvious right action that needs to be taken and the moral implications integrated with that action. This points to oriental Martial Arts, especially Judo where energy is guided "grounded" neutralizing the force and the negative emotional vibration that it exists as and changes it through dispersion into the ground. This perspective in its essence points to a whole deeper level of the LOTR.

[@WaggaDaBagga]

Tom Bombadil lived in a house with his beautiful wife inside the old forest. He was from: the countryside as a spirit of: the nature itself. He was always smiling and singing with joy. In the books he was included, but not in the films. Since his size is not that tall, I would think his body's host is some kind of Forest Gnome ("goblin"). Who could communicate with animals and cared for the plants. (he was, after all, as tall as Aule's children (the Dwarves). And his wife was someone he met at the light-trees in Similliron. And fell in love with.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

his peaceful life with Goldberry in the Old Forest is such a contrast to the chaos around him. It’s almost as if Tom is a spirit of the natural world, untouched by the evil that surrounds him

[@unitron2005]

Hardly a contest. Bombadil was stated to be below Sauron, so he would get godstomped by Morgoth.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Interesting take! But Bombadil is a tough one to figure out. Some fans think he’s just on a completely different wavelength than Morgoth or Sauron, not caring about power or even engaging in their struggles. Others argue that his immunity to the One Ring might make him immune to Morgoth’s influence too, like he’s just untouchable in his own way. Then again, Morgoth’s raw power is undeniable, so maybe if Bombadil actually cared, it would be a closer fight. Tolkien really left us with a mystery on this one!

[@unitron2005]

@@Taleof_fellowship Not really, it was stated that if Sauron regained the One Ring, Bombadill would fall. Which means that full power Sauron >> Bombadil Unless I only dreamt that bit in the books.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

@@unitron2005 It is the opinion of the Council sure, but they are not themselves fully familiar with Tom Bombadil’s powers nor had they ever been in a position to test it. I’d say rather that we know the Council of Elrond THINKS that Sauron could defeat Tom Bombadil if it came to it. However, Tom Bombadil claims to be ‘Eldest’ in Arda, in the drafts ‘Ab Origine’ and typically we see older correlated with stronger as Middle-Earth is a manner of decline narrative.

[@nickcopeland5497]

Tom was there before the trees and the rivers because he made them. He is Aulë, the "good" valar smith whereas Melkor was the evil smith. But Melkor is brother of Manwe, the King of the Valar and Arda. Because Tom outclasses the Sauron, the effects of the one ring don't affect him. That power is childs play to the valar. It took several Valar to take out Melkor/Morgoth though. So Tom couldn't defeat Morgoth. But he could put up a decent fight. They are on the same level.

[@kharkanas6779]

I think not. If we use Eastern religion as an example, I will say Bombardil is a Buddha. And morgoth a god. But what is a god to a Buddha? Detached, what would affect Bombadil? Not power, not anger, not grief, not envy and certainly not ambition. Bombadil was one with nature. Meaning he was one with creation. And that isn't something you can defeat.😊

[@spencer1980]

My hot take is that tom Bombadil IS melkor. With morgoth expelled, but so much of him had been imbued into arda, tom bombadil is like a lobotomized melkor that remains.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

A ‘lobotomized Melkor’ version of Bombadil is a wild idea but makes sense with how mysterious he is.

[@MC-tl7oj]

Not sure how thats a fair matchup honestly. When talking about Tom holding onto the one ring, Gandalf mentions how he would hold out for a time and fall before Sauron last, as he was the first, alone like an island facing the sea. And Morgoth is a whole scale of power beyond Sauron. Tom vs the witch king, gothmog, therynwithl etc would be closer

[@Taleof_fellowship]

I see where you’re coming from, but I think Tom’s mysterious power makes him a wild card. Even against someone as powerful as Morgoth, who knows what might happen!.

[@The_Tradie_Trainer]

It’s plausible that the council of Elrond are unaware of the extent of Tom’s “power”. For the tale it would also be important that the “good guys” didn’t think they hade some all powerful godlike figure to fall back on if their other plan(s) failed.

[@joriskemper5392]

I think Tom is Tolkien's aligory of himself. His desire not to get caught up in politics and struggles but to live a more simple and unbothered life.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Tom Bombadil definitely has that carefree, independent spirit that could reflect Tolkien’s own values. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[@dixieflatline1189]

Tom is untested and uninterested. He was around when Morgoth corrupted the song during the formation of Arda + the wars that followed. They never went at it then, when everything was chaos and the world was at stake. During the third age, Arda wasn't at risk, just the free will of people living on it. Again untested and uninterested.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Tom seems content to stay out of the chaos, like he’s in his own little world. Maybe he just knew things would work out without him getting involved!.

[@Erintii]

This is interesting question, but we don't know Tom's power level. We know that Morgoth was powerful coward (he run away from fights), but Tom? I've had a lot of discussions about Tom with my late Mom. We liked idea that he was an Ainu on a Vala level power. He is not affected by the One Ring, even if the One even affects Gandalf himself who is a Maia. So I don't think he is a Maia, but who is he? He mentioned, correct me if I am wrong, that he was in the Old Forest before sun and stars. This refers to Years of Lamp, and maybe the Old Forest is the last surviving piece of Almaren? It is so weird and ancient.. I heard theories and he and Ungoliant are polar opposites and Tom can be embodiment of the Song of Ainur and Ungoliant the Discord. Or maybe Ungoliant is a being coming from a Void? Maybe Tom and Ungoliant are primordial beings coming from the Void and thus detached from a world. living outside the laws of world. Ungoliant was just hungry wanted to eat, but not to dominate the world. Morgoth cried for Balrogs to save him in this moment of humiliation. We know that Morgoth had no authority over Ungoliant, he made a pact with her and she almost ate him. If Tom was from similiar race? or promodial beings Morgoth would not fight with him. Morgoth was a coward and preferred to make others did a dirty job. He run from Tulkas and even didn't want to duel Fingolfin. If Tom is a primordial being of unknown, but great, level of power and could punch him in a face, Morgoth would avoid the duel and ordered Sauron to fight.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s such an interesting theory! Tom Bombadil’s origins are definitely one of the biggest mysteries in Tolkien’s world. The idea of him being a primordial being, like Ungoliant, is really intriguing-especially when you think about how different they are in nature. Ungoliant was all about destruction and hunger, while Tom just seemed to enjoy living peacefully, detached from the power struggles of the world. And you’re right, Morgoth wasn’t one to face someone directly unless he had no choice. If Tom was that powerful, Morgoth would likely have done anything to avoid a confrontation altogether.

[@Erintii]

@@Taleof_fellowship . Thank you. Tom and Ungoliant are polar opposites. I am thinking about him, as well as Ungoliant and Nameless Things, as primordial as he is know as "Fatherless" and in Arda all creatures are coming from Eru. Aule created dwarves but still Eru let Aule to keep him. So, who can be Fatherless? Another question is why neither Morgoth, who was a coward, and Sauron, who was not a coward, never attacked the Old Forest. Was it invisible for them as Doriath under the Girdle of Melian, or they did not dare?

[@Taleof_fellowship]

As for why neither Morgoth nor Sauron attacked the Old Forest, it’s a mystery. Maybe the forest had its own power or protection, similar to the Girdle of Melian, or perhaps Tom’s presence alone made it a place they preferred to avoid. It’s fascinating to think about how such a small area could remain untouched by such powerful forces.

[@eaglefangkaratedojo7473]

They explicitly say that he cannot, and that he would have no use of the ring. He’d be the last one to fall to Sauron, most likely, but fall nonetheless. There ya go. Saved you 20 mins.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Actually, Tom Bombadil is outside the usual rules of Middle-earth. He wouldn’t ‘fall’ to Sauron or Morgoth like others, but not because he’s immune-he simply doesn’t care for power or dominion. The Council of Elrond even suggests that he’d eventually fade rather than fight, as he’s disconnected from those struggles entirely.

[@eaglefangkaratedojo7473]

@@Taleof_fellowship Gandalf says he’d be overcome if he fought but yeah, he’d avoid fighting entirely most likely.

[@The_Tradie_Trainer]

Gandalf may well have been correct, but it’s worth noting that all his memories at that time come from his time in Middle Earth rather than tracing all the way back to his origins as Olorin.

[@eaglefangkaratedojo7473]

@@The_Tradie_Trainer That’s never confirmed in the books, just something rings of power does. He remembered being Olórin because he tells a select few people, including Faramir, his true name.

[@The_Tradie_Trainer]

@@eaglefangkaratedojo7473 idk I’ve never watched past the opening scene of RoP. As for Gandalf (and other Maia) “For it is said indeed that being embodied the Istari had need to learn much anew by slow experience and though they knew whence they came the memory of the Blessed Realm was to them a vision from afar off, for which (so long as they remained true to their mission) they yearned exceedingly.” - Unfinished Tales. To me “learning anew by slow experience” would indicate he didn’t have the same knowledge he left Valar with. Which makes it entirely plausible his knowledge of Bombadill is incomplete (or not; impossible to know for sure).

[@christopherrobbins0]

Tom would walk away. As the world burned around him. He'd find a spot and create life no matter what Morgoth did.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Thats his nature

[@christopherrobbins0]

@Taleof_fellowship though as I think about what he is and what we as the reader know about him. He may not be too happy if Morgoth put the forests of Arda in danger. And we really don't know the extent of his powers. He may create a barrier around his forests totally disconnecting them from the reality of Middle-Earth. Or maybe pull all life into himself and simply move it into a pocket dimension. It's a cool concept to ponder.

[@kurthermann1302]

Tom is a child, thus impervious. Who else would wear the outfit he does and sing the songs he does. His imagination is whatever he wants it to be that way he wins

[@fred20097]

The biggest problem I see in this video is that if you have great power, and there's a great threat in the world, you don't leave it to others to fix, you do your bit too. And this isn't about power, it's a moral question of right and wrong. If you can help defeat a great evil, then you should do it, least that great evil later comes for you and there's no one else left by that time to help you. Moreover, it's simply the right thing to do. As for a confrontation between Bombadil and Morgoth, perhaps they'd cancel each other out. Or maybe they're two separate parts of the same being, and once they were reunited, they'd merge into one being, the evil in Melkor not completely defeated, but neither the good in Bombadil.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

It does seem logical that anyone capable of fighting a great evil should take part, if only to prevent future harm. Tom Bombadil’s non-intervention can be puzzling, but perhaps his power and nature are so different that he views things outside of good and evil, which is hard for us to comprehend. As for the idea of him and Morgoth being two sides of the same coin, it’s a fascinating theory. Maybe they represent balance, and a direct confrontation could result in an unpredictable outcome.

[@Kornheiser10]

Tom may be the personification of the second round of "The Song" that ultimately overtook Melkor's discord. I'll take Tom in three rounds.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Three rounds might be all he needs with that level of power 👀

[@derekwebb7577]

Morgoth was the most powerful of their shared race. I am sure it would be an epic battle that would wreck the land like the end of the First Age.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

You’re right that Morgoth’s power during the First Age was immense. Any confrontation between him and Bombadil would certainly be an epic one, with a massive impact on the land, much like the destruction seen at the end of the First Age.

[@Zomfoo]

Elrond’s council seemed to suggest Tom would ultimately lose to Sauron. Morgoth/Melkor was magnitudes more powerful to Sauron who was his servant.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

elrond’s council 'THINK' that tom will fall.

[@cuebj]

Doesn't mean they were correct. Even the council of the wise didn't seem to know what or who he really was

[@uapuat]

At the Council of Elrond, it was established that eventually, if everything else fell, Bombadil would also fall to Sauron. Unless that is incorrect, he would not be able to withstand an assault from Morgoth.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

i have responded to a comment similar, the council of elrond "THINK" that tom will fall to sauron, its character’s thoughts 💭.

[@bigdeal1163]

When you are a creator and all powerful, you have no thirst for domination and destruction. You want to see evolution of your creations in harmony, this is Morgoths weakness

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Morgoth’s obsession with control is what ultimately weakens him. Tom’s approach to simply being and letting things evolve is such a stark contrast to Morgoth’s hunger for power.

[@MrMGR1986]

I say hes the embodiment of the Music of Eru

[@Taleof_fellowship]

The embodiment of Eru’s music fits so well with how Tom feels so ancient and powerful, yet free and unburdened.

[@nickcopeland5497]

I strongly believe Tom Bombadil is the creator of Arda: Aulë... the Vala who was a rival smith to Melkor, but the "good" version. Tom says he was there before the rivers and before the trees. That's because he is the maker of the substance of their world. He was there first making things. It would explain why Gandalf and Tom speak in Rings of Power like Tom is of a higher rank, like Gandalf's new boss pretty much. That's why Tom is complete immune to the lower rank maiar powers imbued into the one ring too. Tom isn't Eru. But it is Eru Iluvitar who wields the Flame Imperishable. It is the Secret Fire both Tom who is Aulë, and Gandalf serve. And it is Eru who judges and controls the direction of the wind of where immortal spirits are swept to Valanor or to blown into the void.Just like Gandalf and the Balrag are equal maiar spirits, the fight between equal Valar Tom (Aulë) and Melkor is 25% likely to kill one foe or 50% likely to kill them both.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s an interesting perspective! Comparing Bombadil to Aulë is compelling, especially with their shared connection to creation. However, Tolkien never fully revealed Bombadil’s true identity, leaving a lot open to interpretation. While Bombadil has immense power in his realm, it’s still unclear how he would compare to the Valar or characters like Melkor. Tolkien seemed to intentionally keep Bombadil’s nature a mystery, allowing fans to theorize and debate.

[@karlschipul9753]

Is Bombadil supposed to look like Jack Black?

[@Taleof_fellowship]

not quite sure, but he should resemble to an old man, at least to Hobbit eyes, with a wrinkled, ruddy face, bright blue eyes, and a bristling brown beard.

[@jamesmirt3847]

He’s just Robin Williams

[@christophermyers6372]

Im going with Bombadil as the winner, just funny when a hillbilly beats a bbeg.

[@mypov9790]

I hope that they will release another trilogy about morgoth, Tom, and other valars...

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That would be epic! So much rich lore with Morgoth, Tom, and the Valar. Imagine a cinematic universe exploring all of them… fingers crossed that one day we’ll see it!

[@mypov9790]

@@Taleof_fellowship thanks to your video! I didn't know that a certain Tom existed/is existing in the full story... Great job!

[@MrC-55]

Tom is the Oyarsa of Earth. CS Lewis and Tolkien were friends

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Tolkien and Lewis did have a close friendship, and it’s always fun to explore how their works may have influenced each other. Tom Bombadil certainly remains one of Tolkien’s most mysterious characters.

[@xenspace5764]

For me, Tom Bombadil brings to mind certain Zen and Daoist Masters - enlightened beings who inhabit the wilderness and have no interest in civilization. The ring has no power over him because, as an enlightened being, he has no desire for power. Of course, in the story he is the most ancient of beings and has a range of magical abilities, but he still has the vibe of a mountain sage.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

I love that perspective! Tom’s disinterest in power and his connection to nature does give him that sage-like quality. The parallels with Zen and Daoist masters make a lot of sense, especially given his ancient and enigmatic nature.

[@xenspace5764]

@@Taleof_fellowship Thanks for the response! It's interesting how such characters appear in stories written by people who have no apparent link to such wisdom. Perhaps an example of the Jungian unconscious archetypes manifesting through creative literary works.

[@cjheaford]

So who is the winner?

[@Taleof_fellowship]

no clear asnwer, they both strong on their own terms, but morgoth is most likely to win.

[@TheCylrin]

Tom is the personification of nature which is apart from the Valar

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Totally agree! Tom really seems to represent something different from the Valar, like the natural world in perfect balance.

[@pabloalvez915]

Of course Morgoth can not defeat Bombadil, because Tom is Eru himself. That simply isn´t possible, never, not in a month of sundays. He´s simply not interested in Arda´s matters, yet as a caring father, he also wants to give his creations the chance to grow up and face struggles by themselves. Much Love.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s an intriguing idea! Tom’s role in Arda and his apparent disinterest in its larger conflicts does leave a lot of room for speculation. The idea of him being beyond even Morgoth is certainly an interesting topic to explore.

[@michaeltoney2277]

Tom could no more fight Sauron than a beautiful piece of nature can fight the strip mall being placed on it. However Sauron could never kill Tom he is the very essence of Arda. If Sauron had won and his corruption spread then Tom may have been twisted and changed.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

I love that metaphor! Tom represents something timeless and untouched by the corruption of the world, much like nature. He doesn’t seem to concern himself with the struggles of power but embodies the enduring beauty beyond them.

[@RhondaCoulter-v7s]

Bombadil is Tolkien. So is Gandalf. Bombadil is outside the story and has nothing to fear from the bad guys in it. He isn't quite a god but pretty close. Gandalf, on the other hand, has plenty to fear in the story, because he is inside it. Would Tom have fallen to Sauron? Yes, in the sense that telling the story from Tom's viewpoint would have killed the whole story. He just had too much power, even outside the Old Forest (like in the downs of the barrow-wights). Tolkien had to tell the story with himself in it, as Gandalf.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

i’ve heard about tom being tolkein, but adding gandalf i don’t think about that.

[@rafaelgustavo7786]

Even Sauron of the third age, and without the Ring, could defeat Tom Bombadil: "would find out its hiding-place, and in the end he would come in person. I doubt whether Tom Bombadil, even on his own ground, could withstand that power; but I am sure that we should not leave him to face it."

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Tom would probably just sing sauron to sleep before he even found him, better not mess with someone who can resist the one ring like its a shiny pebble!.

[@teovu5557]

​@@Taleof_fellowshipbombadil is probably illuvatar dicking around on middle earth for the sake of it in human form.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

haha that’s quiet interesting 🤣

[@Dereisendrache177]

@@Taleof_fellowshipBased on the book he can’t.

[@Dereisendrache177]

@@teovu5557It’s been confirmed he is not iluvatar because he was stated to only make like 2 interventions in middle earth. Honestly tolkein probably made Tom bombadil and Goldberry represent Himself and perhaps his wife to put themselves as mysterious characters in the narrative

[@troyrichardson592]

How could Morgoth be the ultimate evil if he was defeated?

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Evil can be redeemed.

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

Team Tom!!

[@BLD426]

Tom is Tolkein. He could just write Morgoths' death.🤨

[@Taleof_fellowship]

hmm 🧐

[@MalzaHaps]

I'm not sure if Tom would fight, does he even fight at all in any of the story? Also does Tom even care about fighting morgoth we don't even know if he can die

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s a great point! Tom seems so detached from all the conflicts, and it’s hard to imagine him fighting anyone. Maybe his power lies in not needing to fight at all.

[@julianbruce7595]

i got my money on morgoth with a first round KO of bombadil

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Haha, betting on the Dark Lord, I see! Morgoth would definitely go all out. But Tom’s calm, mysterious nature might surprise us all!.

[@afzalhaider9163]

Tom cannot win against Morgoth even saron and rings of power Tom is even worst

[@Taleof_fellowship]

It’s true, Tom probably wouldn’t go toe-to-toe with Morgoth in a typical battle. But then again, Tom doesn’t really play by the same rules as Morgoth, Sauron, or even the Rings of Power. He’s a wild card in Middle-earth!”

[@Parasmunt]

In truth Bombadil is unknown, he doesn't fit in to the hierarchy that Tolkien laid out with Illuvatar, the Valar and the Maia.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Yeah, Tom definitely doesn’t fit neatly into any of Tolkien’s established hierarchies. It adds to his mystery-perhaps he’s beyond even the Valar and Maiar in his own unique way.

[@jimmyellison2766]

he is one of the blue wizards

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Well, never heard of that before

[@jimmyellison2766]

@@Taleof_fellowship what happened to them do you know

[@oceanblueheart1472]

😅 I don't think it would be a fair fight. Not even a fight. Are you kidding. LOL

[@Taleof_fellowship]

why not, tom isn’t that easy to be beaten inside his realm.

[@Dereisendrache177]

Sauron is much stronger than Tom bombadil

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s not true

[@Dereisendrache177]

@@Taleof_fellowship if tom was in Mordor instead of his old forest, he couldn’t even kill an orc. If Tom was in his forest, then Sauron would still kill him. Tom’s magic likely revolves around spiritual/Banishing type of powers(Like he did to the barrow wights) I don’t see that affect a Maia like Sauron personally.

[@silverhaste8900]

​@@Dereisendrache177 well if bombadil indeed has the power to control the earth like some theories suggest he could...idk bury sauron under the ground or unleash the power of the trees against him

[@Dereisendrache177]

@@silverhaste8900 That does not work when Sauron’s body is made of heat. Any attack he would throw would be useless.

[@williamafton348]

I firmly believe Tom Bombadil is actually Eru Illuvatar, which is why he never directly gets involved and is completely disinterested and unaffected by the Ring. He simply sits back and likes to experience the wonders of his creation first hand. If he were to meet Melkor, it would likely be like a disgruntled rebellious son met his father who still loves him but does not support his lifestyle.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s a really thought-provoking take on Bombadil! His indifference to the Ring and the events around him has led many to speculate about his true identity. His connection to the deeper powers in Arda is definitely a captivating mystery.

[@emmcenna619]

Bombadil is almost certainly a primordial being like Ungoliant, who was able to overpower Morgoth, but like Ungoliant, he'd be limited by the power of what he draws from. So, I suspect he was always technically as powerful as both Morgoth and later Sauron because he drew his power from Arda and nature. And as Morgoth, the Valar, Elves, Men, Dwarves, ect. made Arda their own, his power would wane. But in making it his own, Morgath relinquished power. So They were both progressively weakened, through time. Morgoth for the taking and imbuing, Bombadil in the relinquishing and retreating. But, being more immortal than the immortal, he didn't have the foresight or concept of cause and effect that the Ainur had. So, he would never have strategized to defeat Morgoth. As the creations of Iluvatar, including Morgoth, took control of the world, Bombadil would have just naturally retreated because he was essentially the spirit of what would be made of the world. The whole plan. Morgoth himself could have attempted to take Goldberry, and Tom likely could have stopped him. But she was not of the world , it's not even clear if she's a Maiar. But Tom couldn't resist the changing of the world, and saw no reason to do so becuase the changing was a part of the whole unfolding that was beheld by the Ainur immediately after creation. It could be said that Tom was as powerful as all of the Ainur and children of Iluvatar combined but was limited in his ability to resist the unfolding.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Wow, this is such a detailed and thoughtful analysis! You bring up some really fascinating points about Bombadil’s nature and the idea of relinquishing versus taking power. The comparison to Ungoliant and Morgoth’s weakening over time is really interesting, especially in the context of how Tom seems to withdraw from the world as it changes. Thanks for sharing your perspective!

[@valentinwidmann76]

It would not be even a challenge for Bombadil. Bombadil is simply superior and his power is supreme in his realm. Its like an ant would try to fight a blue whale...just no match at all.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

That’s a fun comparison! Bombadil’s power in his own realm is definitely something else.

[@nickmiller48234]

Id like to see Tom fight the Witch King then Carcharoth then Glaurung thenGothmog then Sauron then Melkor. Work up the ladder

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Now that’s a legendary gauntlet! It’d be incredible to see Tom face each of these foes and rise through the ranks. Who knows, he might just surprise everyone by making it to the top!

[@samotxx411]

I dont think he can win over morgoth his immersive power is just crazy to be compared to tom great video though!

[@Taleof_fellowship]

It’s mysterious, but I don’t think Tom would fall that easily either.

[@TheLibraryChamber]

...because its not.

[@SkankHunt95]

If Melkor go solo in old forest, he's fcked up

[@Erintii]

He was too big coward to took risk. He would run from Tom as he run from Tulkas. He hide himself in a basement because Varda created Valacirca to hang above his fortress.

[@PopJacare]

😂😂😂😂

[@BigdogGaming-sm3lj]

Melkor is the oldest and mightiest of all of the valor in sheer power. This was establish by Tolkien himself. I think tom is a physical manifestation of Ada.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Yep, Melkor’s power is legendary! And thinking of Tom as a manifestation of Arda is such an interesting take-it really fits his mysterious, otherworldly presence!

[@YimmyYames513]

Tom but their would be some kind of sacrifice Tolkien wants the good guys to win but their would be a cost.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Tom but their would be some kind of sacrifice Tolkien wants the good guys to win but their would be a cost.

[@carl8229]

Its only a matter of time before amazon makes Tom Bombadil black and LGBT

[@Taleof_fellowship]

lmao 💀

[@YimmyYames513]

No one ever asks how Tom is only what is Tom. Now Tom has gender issues.

[@wufako]

This made me choke on my coffee. Laughing so hard.

[@NicoleStevensHays11x]

@carl8229 Look at this lost freakin soul, bringing his “politics” to a KZbin video about Tolkien. What a freak. AND he’s scared of black ppl. Any brothers here who can knock him into next week?!

[@ccptube3468]

Tom is Eru personification on Middle Earth. Morgoth is nothing to him.

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Tom Bombadil does seem untouched by the evil that Morgoth and Sauron represent. Tolkien intentionally left his origins mysterious, but it’s fun to speculate about his true nature.

[@cliffinjesus8932]

If tom is illuvitar as rumours.. morgoth is fckd

[@Taleof_fellowship]

if Tom really is Ilúvatar, Morgoth would definitely have no chance! That would be such an interesting twist.

[@cliffinjesus8932]

@@Taleof_fellowship like thanos snapped his fingers

[@joshdyer3270]

No way tom is rhyming his way out of a war with morgoth. 😂

[@Taleof_fellowship]

Haha, that would be a rap battle sadly morgoth can’t sing 💀

[@joshdyer3270]

@@Taleof_fellowship lol i would pay too see that.

[@G31M1]

Morgoth about to get served ooooooOoohhH