Why A Project NASA Rejected Became Their Longest Running Satellite Program

Landsat 9 launched yesterday becoming the latest installment in the program which began in the 1960's and the funny thing is NASA initially didn't want to do it and there's been attempts to spin it off as a commercial venture. However the program is easily the best investment in space technology the US has made, helping steer trillions of dollars worth of decisions on agriculture, land use, development and more.
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[@fps079]

As a member of the Landsat 6 flight software team let me tell you there is no feeling of failure like the loss of a spacecraft. RIP Landsat 6.

[@jonceretto5273]

Ain't that the truth....a part of your life goes on the launch.

[@oremooremo5075]

Did it lead to loss of coverage in some areas of the world? Asking for a project.

[@fps079]

@@oremooremo5075 I don't think so, Landsat 5 was still working at the time, which led to Landsat 5 receiving the Guinness Record for longest operational satellite. I think Landsat 5 and Landsat 6 had identical coverage, only a couple tenths of degrees of inclination difference and a slightly longer period for Landsat 6.

[@paulsengupta971]

I don't know what the record is for the oldest operational satellite currently (I think it was covered in another video) but the amateur radio satellite AO-7 (Amsat Oscar 7 - OSCAR = Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio) was launched in 1974. It became unoperational for a while due to the batteries, but they eventually went open circuit and the satellite is now usable again provided the solar panels are in sunlight. That makes it 47 years old.

[@fps079]

@@paulsengupta971 Contact the Guinness People. Landsat 5 is recognized as, "the longest-operating Earth-observing satellite mission in history". So maybe the OSCAR is not earth observing?

[@FelineSublime]

We definitely benefited from the data being made publicly available as a geology/GIS undergrad from 2008-2012. Did some guided research my junior and senior year using their database, too.

[@jonceretto5273]

Geomorphology is what brought me to the early days of satellites... small world.

[@ozzymandius666]

But why is the intro so gay?

[@scottmanley]

@@ozzymandius666 it’s not but apparently you see regular stuff as gay stuff.

[@ozzymandius666]

@@scottmanley Its the rainbow colors that get to me.

[@jungleb]

@@ozzymandius666 gay is ok

[@wafflesnfalafel1]

My grandmother bought a big, glossy picture book of landsat photos for us when we were kids in the 70's, absolutely loved it, super cool. Had no idea it was still operational.

[@DrWhom]

Yes, Landsat was big in the 70s.

[@rlborger]

I started working with ERTS-1 data in grad school in 1973. Ended up making much of my career doing image processing and interpretation of various satellite data. The Landsat series was the best to work with. Most folks don't know that Landsat 2 was originally built as a backup for 1 in case of a launch failure. Never intended to be launched. The unbelievable success of good ol' ERTS=1 ensured that the backup would eventually fly. Landsat 3 was made up from leftover and spare parts from 1 & 2. The highest quality parts went into 1, the 2nd quality parts into 2 and floor sweepings into 3. Which is why 3 was so short lived and of lower quality data. What a wonderful time it was from the launch of 1 until I was no longer allowed to do Remote Sensing work in my career.

[@patrolman53]

why were you no longer allowed, if I may ask?

[@rlborger]

@@patrolman53 I was working on a 2 year assignment to R&D that ended up running for 16 years. It was during this time that I did most of my image processing, image interpretation and other R&D work with Landsat and other image data. It was finally time for that assignment to end and I had to go back to operations doing geophysics (which was the reason I was originally hired some 20 years earlier).

[@thomashead4812]

I worked on the Landsat 6 X-band data transmitter design. It was a fun and interesting project for a young microwave radio engineer. I am thankful I got to contribute to such an important program. Thanks Scott - I really enjoy your videos. This one was particularly interesting to me.

[@douglasstrother6584]

I worked for the company that built the X-band TWTAs for Landsat 8. The science deliveries were always fun.

[@namibjDerEchte]

@@douglasstrother6584 Can youu share in what way they were (unusually?) fun? Sounds like there's some nice stories, and with science deliveries, secrecy requirements probably won't make you redact too much?

[@dphuntsman]

Great summary, Scott.Only correct I might make is on the shuttle launch facility out at VAFB: it was finished, and we’ all on the Mission Control side were in our (final) simulations training for the first launch from there. All the billions had already been spent- & then a command decision was made- forced by the USAF Secretary- to not use it.

[@CrissaKentavr]

Yeah, the USAF used it for their autonomous craft testing eventually.

[@RS-ls7mm]

The shuttle on the Vandenberg pad also had the improved solid boosters. So close, so much money wasted.

[@jonceretto5273]

Were you out of CSOC, STC or VAFB?

[@dphuntsman]

@@jonceretto5273 I was at MCC in Houston.

[@jonceretto5273]

@@dphuntsman And I was at CSOC in Colorado Springs. SOPC ring a bell?

[@hopje01]

Yesterday, big UFO alert here in Belgium. A strange triangle thing was seen by many people. But turned out it was the new Landsat after his launch. :)

[@karlzen86]

Same here in Norway too XD

[@theonly5001]

I got the Centaur Rocket infront of the northernlights on video. I will have to Upload that sometime, when i get back home.

[@Melanie16040]

@@theonly5001 Checked your channel, didn't see the upload :( could you @ me here if you end up uploading it?

[@kazsmaz]

Saw that rocket myself! Saw the retrograde burn above Scotland.

[@blipboop5594]

Had no idea that kind of thing was visible here!

[@colinritchie1757]

SO that's what it was , out with the cat last night and saw it, the joys f Polar orbits, the ISS never comes this far north

[@Rybo-Senpai]

@@colinritchie1757 look about 10-20 degrees above the horizon to the South, it'll be fast moving with a gentle right hand curve coming from the west, I saw it about an hour ago from my camping spot near Acharacle while somehow still having signal

[@kazsmaz]

@@Rybo-Senpai he didn't see what you are talking about. Were talking about a plume in space not a tiny little speck

[@mickeyfilmer5551]

I am considerably older than you (apparently!!!) but I remeber being able to access the landsat imagery for the first time (I also woke up at 4am when Neil and Buzz stepped out of Apollo), and was absolutely gobsmacked at the resolution and the ability to see the vegetation in one colour and other things like temperatures etc in infra red, what an amazing set of wonderful views. btw I really appreciate your channel and your concise vand accurate reporting of everything space. Thank you (Young Man- lol!)

[@nagualdesign]

Vegetation? _On the Moon?!_ 🧐 😜

[@arushreddi5419]

@@nagualdesign vegetation on the EARTH

[@nagualdesign]

@@arushreddi5419 No shit, Sherlock.

[@arushreddi5419]

@@nagualdesign lol

[@henrya3530]

Quick reminder - in one month it will be the 50th anniversary of the launch of Prospero (28/10/1971) the only British satellite launched on a British rocket. To date, the UK is the only country to have developed and then abandoned a satellite launch capability.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

when starship goes into commercial operation, there'll be 100+ good reasons for other countries to follow the uk's lead and abandon their efforts.

[@the18thdoctor3]

@@sirmoonslosthismind monopolies are bad

[@gerrycoll2560]

One of my earliest introductions to computers was in a remote sensing course using LandSat data. We used what would now be called ASCII art to printout onto white fan fold paper, using space, dot, * # @ etc for different shades, all on a VAX of some description.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

Not at all surprised that costs went up when the program was (fortunately temporarily) privatized. Public-private partnership means public pays and private profits.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

all organizing arrangements have their moral hazards to watch out for. public programs, private programs, and public-private partnerships can all be good things and can all be bad things. the people leading the effort have more to do with the outcome than the way they're organized.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@sirmoonslosthismind All organizing arrangements do have their moral hazards, but with for-profit companies being _for profit_, they have an organizational incentive to do whatever it takes to gain control of the public sector to use it to their own benefit.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

@@Lucius_Chiaraviglio all humans have an incentive to structure things for their own benefit. neither the public sector nor the private sector is actually incentivized to serve the public. we should quit arguing over pointless ideologies and address society's moral rot instead.

[@clarkkent7973]

Seems to be working for NASA and SpaceX.

[@Lucius_Chiaraviglio]

@@clarkkent7973 But is it really getting us space access for the same or lower cost than what we would have gotten with the government keeping more control over the process. (Of course, what we had before was not ideal either, since it extensively used private companies for building stuff under contract . . . and you know what that means.)

[@ShannonMcDowell71]

Long time viewer, just wanted to thank you for your videos - I always learn something new with each one! Best to you! 😃

[@rocketsocks]

Huh, it's interesting that both Landsat 6 and Mars Observer failed within months of each other both due to faulty hydrazine plumbing.

[@TypoKnig]

My grandfather was an abstract painter, and he made some oil paintings based on ERTS and Landsat imagery. 😊

[@Gsoda35]

Who would not love to have Scott Manley as a passenger in the intro rocket? For every upload from Scott, life goes from calm to interesting to exciting.

[@RCAvhstape]

3:02 love those old school graphics

[@markhollis5850]

Gosh, Scott, you are young! I remember the first Landsat! The multi-spectral scans were used to determine vegetation and also to find minerals in the earth. I think that National Geographic published the first pictures from Landsat I.

[@Zacks.C-land]

Great episode! I did my grad school research using a good chunk of Landsat data. The whole program is a gem for earth sciences researchers.

[@virutech32]

well that's why you shouldn't try to commercialize government services. what they do might not be profitable, but it is critical h we need it. thx for video scott. very cool beans

[@gordonrichardson2972]

It's also an impediment when users in the 3rd world have to pay for critical data.

[@HalNordmann]

Given that some people want to privatize the whole of NASA's operations for a long time, this is a good argument for why it isn't the best idea.

[@scottmanley]

Just because something helps the country to the tune of tens of billions of dollars per year does not mean there’s profit to be made by a private company.

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

@@scottmanley the spike in usage of Landsat data once it went free was basically a line going straight up. Better to use the data than try to earn money from it.

[@markdoldon8852]

But the Landsat images has so many commercial uses that it really makes a perfect test for finding ways to commercialize space. In the end it failed due to poor implementation rather than the data not having the value. We're all better off with the open data of course, but prior to that decision, it made sense to see if industry could handle the process.

[@differenttan7366]

The idea for the Yoyager program started in 65 as well although the satellites launched later than Landsat 1, must have been a good year for long lived sat programs

[@0tiochico]

Looking forward to see the imagery back from Landsat 9 and tinker with it´s multispectral data, so much science that can be done with that!

[@klausvonshnytke]

The vastness of your knowledge about space topics is amazing.

[@martincain9743]

This is one of the best videos you’ve ever done. As an avid user of google maps both for travel, exploration and science I appreciate knowing this eye in the sky view will continue to improve and am now going to get into that public data to help plan for the adventures where no other data is available.

[@djstoplichtofficial]

I enjoyed the way you talked about the history of all the satellites in the program, I watched the launch without really knowing anything about Landsat, made me curious and now I have the answers to all the questions I'll ever have! Thank you Scott!

[@perlsackhd3957]

This open data is just beautiful. I remember checking if a glacier is still covered in Snow from the Sentinel Data this Summer

[@happykillmore349]

The most informative and up-to-date channel on KZbin.

[@sevex9]

Graphics were on point with this one. Thanks Scott!

[@sl600rt]

2103. The launch of sls 1 makes it the longest running nasa program.

[@markdoldon8852]

What was Landsat 21 canceled?

[@Interstellr]

My dad is actually working on the restore- L mission to service Landsat 7 which is actually now called Osam - 1 he says it is expected to launch in 2024 but they are having problems extending the arm to grab the sat.

[@BenJamin-rt7ui]

Really interesting. Keep educating us Scott.

[@kyletornow5781]

Great episode. Very informative and very interesting to hear of other successful satellite programs. Would be interesting to learn more about how the advanced satellites imagery systems work. Thank you as always

[@coffeecuparcade]

A thank you from us to you, for keeping us "in the know" when it comes to space. Appreciate you so much!

[@movax20h]

Landsat was probably the program that got me hooked into being a space enthusiast the most. I remember seeing beautiful landsat photos in books and magazines in early 90s (with most books from late 70s and 80s), and how they work, and what can be learned with their instruments. The tech and dedication was mind blowing to 10 years old me.

[@Thihercooley]

Awesome outro! And also awesome video about all the Landsats out there!

[@yorkshire_tea_innit8097]

Landsat (and sentinel) are just so useful. I bet there are millions of people who could use them to help their job but don't even know they exist and/or that it's free. I used to work in the Maltese environment agency, and when I showed them all these tools and offered a tutorial for basic use, loads of people got good ideas and started implementing them into what they do. One example of which was monitoring fish farms out at sea which they used to do with a boat.

[@JohnSmith-yp2nt]

Incredible breakdown and analysis. Hats off as always, Scott. Thanks for going above and beyond.

[@stevenewtube]

Hi Scott. Great video mate. I’d love to know who made the tape transports and a bit more on the tape machines. Fascinating !

[@fekard]

I know a lot about this, but this is very good. Where did you do the research for this? Some good detail here. Thank you.

[@bardigan1]

Back in the late '70s there was a Lansat story floating around Alaska about a fire that had been discovered by the satellite on one of it's first passes over the state. Basically the fire was so far out in the bush that nobody knew it happening, and that it was the size of Delaware. You can't call it an urban legend because, well, Alaska, but everybody who heard it up there was pleasantly reminded of just how big the state is.

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty interesting history indeed! 😃 Thanks a lot, Scott! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@skyricq]

Old fashioned machines and electronics are just so cool looking

[@happyhome41]

Only 1.32M subscribers -- where is everybody ? This should be in all the schools, and the students tell their friends and their parents, and . . . Wonderful.

[@maiaemmett2399]

I appreciate that both attempts to privatize it failed miserably

[@HalNordmann]

Given that some people want to privatize NASA, this is a good argument for why it isn't the best idea.

[@freiherrvonbraun6942]

I haven't seen the video yet, but isn't Planet and BlackSky doing something similar? (sadly have to pay for it)

[@polygondwanaland8390]

@@freiherrvonbraun6942 Planet, BlackSky, Maxar, Airbus and a bunch of others all do commercial orbital imagery.

[@joyl7842]

Fascinating stuff! Thank you Mr. Manley.

[@user-xv4id9xx7u]

_Hello, it's got manly here!_

[@b1laxson]

Have you considered covering Canada's Radarsat series?

[@kennethblackwell1137]

Fantastic....thanks for the report. I love to hear of NASA's science-satellite programs.

[@avejst]

great video as always Good update Thanks for sharing :-)

[@ebikeracer9]

Awesome video as always Scott!

[@mercuryman7]

Interesting to learn the historical connection between the Landsat satellites and the TDRS satellites. It is not often mentioned, but when the Challenger exploded, it was carrying one of the early TDRS satellites. One of the reasons for the (initial) delay of the Challenger launch was an issue with that satellite.

[@24HoLTeam93]

I love earth observation satellites! And your channel, so this comment is mainly to convince the YT algo that you need more viewers.

[@paulcochran1721]

So instead of V'ger, it is actually Landsat that has detected the carbon unit infestation.🙂

[@Kevin-hb7yq]

LOL

[@majorgruber5925]

Sure wish you'd do a video on NASA's abandoned MXER research (and outside related studies). The orbital tether-sling such an interesting concept. Kind of like LoTech goes super High Tech with a resulting orbital trebuchet. If it worked for Sampson, aye?

[@bobbuilder4268]

@2:17 the Eros data center! Now thats data i can get behind, and on top of, sideways, upside down. Its all good even when its bad.

[@stevenesheim9413]

I grew up about 10 miles from the Eros date center in South Dakota. I have friends that work there and at one point applied for a job there. It's a cool place.

[@oremooremo5075]

I was wondering whether the Landsat monetization program is what led to the lack of data in some areas during 1990 -1995 or was it due to the failure of landsat 6 getting into orbit?

[@absalomdraconis]

Probably the monetization program, since you'd generally expect the satellites to be placed for complete coverage regardless of anything else.

[@oremooremo5075]

@@absalomdraconis In some areas I only got only one very cloudy image.

[@kenhelmers2603]

Great info! Thanks Scott :)

[@notjosh202]

Great Video, Awesome Pictures

[@JoeyD_NYC]

@Scott Manley Neil Tyson, Bill Nye, and Michio Kaku are all people who have inspired me to be interested in space exploration and I put Scott Manley on that personal Mt Rushmore for me too. This guy has taught me more practical conceptual stuff about physics i can apply than most teachers I've had, and taught me how to do things in KSP I've seen only in movies. I'm going to college as mechanical and aeronautical engineer because u helped inspire me to, thanks Scott!

[@BlackHawkBallistic]

What an amazing program, those photos are absolutely stunning.

[@biranai]

Considering the fact that NASA is almost the only source of free space images it is great job. Thank you :)

[@lostpony4885]

Scott Manley in an office job: "File safe."

[@bmattison]

My father worked for USDA Grain Inspector Division from the 1950s till 1985. I remember him talking about his office being contacted to identify what was growing in certain fields in his area, South Arkansas. It turned out they were making sure that what the satellite identified in a field was actually what was growing there.

[@Kevin-hb7yq]

Excellent video!! Scott, I have a question about space debris mitigation. I'm sure there are all sorts of suggestions and plans about how to pick up space junk, similar to how the space shuttle would retrieve broken satellites. The development of reusable rockets like New Shepard, Electron, SpaceX, and others allows cheap access to LEO. If Kerbal Space Program taught me anything, it's that minor changes in speed at apogee will bring junk back. Could any of these vehicles be used to lob large tightly woven Hemp-rope nets on intercepts with debris clouds? They only need to inflict low amounts of delta v. I say hemp rope because the weight and costs will be extremely low. The small bits can smash through of course, ( but will be slowed ). Just lob them up into the 'debris orbital toroid' (forgive if I'm saying this wrong ) on a none orbital but intersecting arch. Just a thought, I'd love to know what is actually viable. Cheers!

[@igorgylycheyev9294]

Geography undergrad student like me really benefitted from the free data. Not only the data from the Landsat program, but also from sentinel and srtm. We often download those data, sometimes for assignment, sometimes just to try the different ways the data could be analysed using GIS softwares, messing around, basically. Back in the day, my lecturer said, research using satellite data would cost upward of two months salary here just for the data alone.

[@alexlandherr]

I’m impressed that Landsat 5 had a 29 year service record.

[@RS-ls7mm]

It was pretty typical of satellites built in the 80's and 90's to last a very long time. I used to work for Hughes. Almost all from that period still work although many have been retired due to better satellites wanting the location. One still in use is 41 years old.

[@carldawson5069]

You probably don't remember Telstar satalight or the song by the Tornadoes. Those were some of the best days! (You young whippersnapper 😜).

[@mickwilson99]

Yay, Scott, for championing this most valuable public good!!

[@chukkie0001]

The landsat 9 centaur upper stage and fuel dump did give some nice images from the netherlands.

[@quadaerospacespacecat8061]

Fun Fact : in the film Kong : skull island which takes place in the 70s features landsat 9.

[@S1baar]

what is that outtro music? is there a full vresion

[@gardnep]

Having done some ground truthing Landsat images in 1982 for agriculture. The images were used to check crop health and estimate yield. This is fed into those markets that speculate on grain trade. So if crops look crook in Canada, the world price of canola goes up and you can buy a contract for a higher price to be delivered in the future. A bit like betting on the horses for farmers.

[@garethandrew8641]

There was vapor trails over the UK from the rocket, cool

[@sparkmanuk]

A Scot Manley episode never disappoints!

[@chrismiddleton398]

Scott, can you tell someone important, we need a vessel named "Lightly Seared on the Reality Grill"? It's the first Iain Banks name that made me laugh out loud (in "Matter"). "Don't Try This at Home" is also good, but maybe a bit on-the-nose?

[@senna4281]

Starship telescope. Could spacex use the upper inner fairing as the telescope mirror having it open up into segmented mirrors like the James web telescope does or even fit solar panels to the inner fairing. This would leave more room from more interments. Would love to see some do some graphics on how the upper fairing could be utilised

[@pe1pqx321]

Hi Scott, Just a quick question. At 1:16 you show a picture stating it is from Apollo 6. As far as I know, Apollo 6 was unmanned. Did it carry photo equipment for Earth-research?? Or could the picture be from some other (manned?) mission? Edit: According to Wikipedia, it did carry a 70mm camera looking out of the CM hatch window.

[@johndododoe1411]

How does Landsat compare to the more recent Dove program and the other satellites from that team?

[@matthewstuart2054]

Love all your videos :)

[@XLessThanZ]

Thanks for that extremely interesting subject. 🥰🤗👍

[@cjturner2036]

Having made a detour into funding and data availability, you might have to dive into the SPOT Image program and do a compare and contrast report on the science.

[@thesquirrel914]

I had a great view on North base for all of the 4 seconds that I saw it😂

[@chrismoule7242]

5:00 - that launch mount looks kind of familiar??

[@binkythecat457]

This just might be my favorite episode.

[@catmate8358]

Cool story :) Is there going to be a follow up video on the Inspiration mission with videos from space and crew telling about their experience and all the interesting stuff?

[@jebediah2408]

I’m hoping it’ll come after the 5th episode of the Netflix documentary

[@kmlammto]

The weather and earth-sensing satellites have had a strange relationship. The GOES-R program had requirements that overlapped with the lower Earth orbiting satellites. The latest ones have taken ideas from the GOES-R program about the ground side for the raw data processing and ancillary issues. Of course, they have added their own improvements. That is actually the sad news because they could and should integrate similar functions for the taxpayer. As a lowly engineer on the GOES-R program, I was not in a position to cause institutional changes in either NOAA or NASA.

[@ANonymous-mo6xp]

I'm still convinced that the patch for GOES-R should have been the Stay Puft Marshmallow man.

[@kmlammto]

@@ANonymous-mo6xp I did insert a picture of Gozer the Gozerian into a slide deck for a monthly status report. 😀 It was not well received. 😛

[@metachuko]

My cousin was there watching the launch. I think he does some kind of software engineering that was used by NASA

[@JohnMGibby]

Awesome video!

[@kitt44kt]

I'm surprised that Scott didn't mention Landsat in the movie Kong: Skull Island (2017).

[@xyzzyx7812]

the old intro is back, YAY!

[@nicolevenant-gutierrez443]

Yes, a new video!

[@iitzfizz]

Haha I was literally looking before

[@patricks_music]

Old tech is really fascinating to me

[@RealHogweed]

Maybe you should make a video on the Copernicus program

[@GJCServices]

whats 9s resolution?

[@Hiperruimteindustriee]

It is a massive disappointment that they didn't call it the eros program: Earth Resources Observation Satellite Program

[@syabilazri]

The USGS department that manages Landsat data is called EROS: Earth Resources Observation and Science

[@petergray7576]

@@syabilazri Cue the awkward Congressional hearings on the EROS budgets.

[@mikicerise6250]

Forsooth! I think I've got a case of the vapours.

[@rtarouca]

How are sensitive military imagery dealt with in the free access data base? What about other countries sensitive information?

[@America_Yea]

Say Scott are you going to do any videos on the new DLC for the outer wilds I'd like to see that.

[@RXTRUX1]

How many earth observation sats are in orbit? Seems like one launches every month or so somewhere.

[@Alewxx]

is the little soyus in scale with the saturn5?

[@CakraDiaz]

why is it that sometimes automated subtitle on ur vids are in Vietnamese, scott? I believe this is the third time I found ur vid to have it in Vietnamese again