Why Airlines Will Never Improve Economy Class

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[@NonstopDan]

The first 1000 people to use this link will get 30% off an annual Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/nonstopdan04212

[@sarthsingh3271]

Love your videos man

[@loodwich]

Exceptional explanation, I was flying for 20 years, and I saw several changes in the travel... I am not a typical passenger, I usually prefer to pay more for a flight in another company (if the company is better), and also chose the seat, paying more, again. my ticket, at this moment is 25% -35% more than the cheapest option..

[@haytv9839]

👍🏽

[@reserva120]

spot on buddy... Remember when AA a few years back pulled out a rows a seats to give everyone leg room , Because of exactly what you said..." computer Cheap price by 10 bucks , an no one would pay it "..

[@gliderfs621]

As a pilot, for me the best class lies in the cockpit ❤✈

[@h2wngh]

I once checked in at Delta, the girl was asking me what seat do I want, I jokingly told her first class if possible. When taking off, I realized she gave me the whole row on board 80% seated 747.

[@morisnakus6108]

playfulness sells in sexual marketplace

[@YukariAkiyamaTanks]

You lucky dog

[@doncarlin9081]

Sometimes you get unexpected great service from a US carrier. I checked in on a Northwest Air flight from Portland to Tokyo, I asked the agent if there were any exit row seats available. She said sorry they were all taken. Feeling bummed I thanked her and started to walk away, she said wait. She gave me a new boarding pass with an upgrade to business class. I was pleasantly shocked, I hadn't even asked for that, and really enjoyed the flight.

[@doncarlin9081]

@Huang Jianhao ikr? I get that occasionally on non-US carriers, but never before or since on a US carrier.

[@윤기민-b5p]

@@YukariAkiyamaTanks hahahahahahahhahahah 😆

[@ReSiStAsPEcT]

As a really tall man, I can't fly economy because it kills my knees. I usually go for premium economy because its a necessity for me

[@TysonIke]

Try getting an emergency exit seat or the front seat in economy class. They have more space

[@th3oryO]

Different airlines and routes can be better than others, I've found transatalantic/Pacific flight have more room than short hops, especially in Asia. However I'm only 6'2" (188cm) and even then on many flight my knees are within an inch of the seat in front. Can't imagine being much taller.

[@rifatmkt]

May be the only time I feel happy for being a short person :D

[@lmlmd2714]

Premium Economy has always seemed a bit odd to me, as a European. It's never really been a thing in the European market, as the competition is so insanely cut-throat, even legacy carriers here are LCC for all intents and purposes. Upside is that a 3 hour intra-EU flight rarely costs more than the food you buy at the airport and take on the plane to stop you starving to death and becoming a corpse eternally wedged into the middle row seat of some random Easyjet A319. I think north American and Asian legacy carriers still operate more like traditional flag-carriers than they do here, and prem economy as part of that.

[@SiliconBong]

@@TysonIke Good call G 546

[@AdvaitDeshmukh]

Imagine if low cost carriers who only have economy class product started using these more comfortable seats, it would really shake up the competition.

[@lausimeyer6558]

Yes, because this airline would disappear. More comfortable seats = more squaremeters of the cabin surface per seat = higher cost per seat = higher fare needed to earn money.

[@abelb.7997]

The only way I could see this working would be if they could get more comfortable seats for the same price as current seat models, which doesn't seem likely. If they spend any more, they'll have to charge more and be under bid by everyone else.

[@trooperdgb9722]

@@abelb.7997 Its not the cost OF the seats that is the problem... ANY seats that give each pax more space logically will take up more space...thus reducing the number of seats... thats where the extra cost comes in...

[@linesided]

JetBlue is a notable exception. But that's only because they found a niche market and sell on service to those middle class folks who really appreciate it.

[@KRYMauL]

@@lausimeyer6558 One that would work is the lie-flight seats that pack people in like was shown, but the economics don’t work.

[@Violent2aShadow]

10 years later: "Hey....remember when economy class had seats? Those were the days....."

[@AstralShot]

Hol up

[@dangernoodle8813]

soon™.

[@pancake5830]

they actually made a design where they removed half of the seat, you basically you lean on it.

[@donttakemeseriously7652]

now they board you like cargo, more money for them.

[@givemethedaily1052]

No kidding, you have seen those saddle type seats where they fit in about five people where 3 fit now. If they could, they would. And for a 30 minute jump...I might go for it, but if we are stuck on the tarmac...F those saddles!

[@squiddler7731]

I imagine the reason price matters so much to customers is because that's all they have to go off of. When you're getting an airplane ticket you don't see what seat you're going to get or know how comfortable it's going to be, most the time the only thing you can be certain of is where and when you're flying and how much it's going to cost. Heck, for me the biggest factor to comfort is whether or not I get a window seat and if anyone ends up sitting next to me, two factors that are almost entirely outside of my control whenever I fly. With no way to know for sure that paying a little bit extra actually gets you a more comfortable flying experience, most people just won't bother factoring comfort in when it comes to getting an economy flight ticket

[@matrices3987]

Great point, also every assumption he makes is obviously wrong.

[@Stabilization]

@@matrices3987 How so? I don’t side with him cause I think comfort improvements of any kind with a low cost carrier would likely make it more popular if cost is kept low. I’m curious to know what you think? Also yeah, I agree with the main comment OP made a year ago. That’s been how I’ve been flying. I find the cheapest flight available cause I just don’t have the money to spend on more. I’m disabled, can’t work enough to make good money, and thus can’t really take comfort into account, focusing on price. But I absolutely love the stuff that’s added already onto said flights that make comfort better. Like the power outlets so I can charge my phone and listen to my own stuff, the entertainment screens, and flights whose economy seats have decent leg space. It’s why I’ve come to like Alaska Air (plus it’s literally where I live lol) and Delta. Kind of wish there were more options here in the US for low cost carriers like the EU, but we’ll see how things change, if it does.

[@econdude3811]

Actually, we could see a new paradigm emerge regarding more comfortable seats. The economics could work very well but airlines would have to work with the public and people who know pricing and demand in order to actuate it. A business is a business and once something is established it's risky and difficult to change something, even if it's better

[@psychocadet]

American tried an advertising campaign in early 2000's - More Room Throughout Coach. It failed. Their fares were lightly higher, but well worth it. People always take the cheapest choice unless they have disposable income... which most of us don't

[@snorttroll4379]

your friendly neighbourhood grammar nazi here. off of is a very bad formulation. in this case you could say : reason from or just go off or base their decision on. same with etc. it is et cetera . not exetera.

[@itsme_nathan6301]

I remember when they were actually thinking of making a class cheaper/lower than economy. Imagine they just shove you in the large bag compartment lmao

[@basedimperialism]

They'd put you in the cargo hold, and have you make sure none of the luggage gets damaged.

[@braces11111]

Economy will never improve because people don't want to pay extra for comfort/luxury. Economy class passengers just want to get from point a to point b as quickly and cheaply as possible. This video is a waste of your time.

[@21Arrozito]

I think I'd like the cargo hold better than economy.

[@giovannicervantes2053]

Standing room flying

[@mangotail6808]

I also imagine plane manufacturers installing cheap plastic seats to keep the costs down. No cushioning, no entertainment, just sit no matter the discomfort and get to your destination.

[@floridaoceaner123]

See, I personally would love to pay just $10 more for more leg room, but it's never just $10. Usually when I'm booking flights it's at least $80 for more leg room or higher. Is this $10 for leg room thing a European thing? Am I out of luck because I'm usually flying US domestic? Anyways, I would jump at small comfort upgrades for $10, but I've never ever ever seen it offered in my experience.

[@fudgebaker]

The $10 example he gave was if EVERYONE got an inch more legroom, then everyone would pay the $10 premium (aka that airline's normal price would be $10 higher than the competition). But people won't do that, they'd just go to a carrier that is $10 cheaper. Like he said: The majority of people don't care about comfort nearly as much as they do about price. They'll gladly sacrifice a HUGE amount of comfort for a SMALL reduction in price.

[@maxstromberg7666]

Yes here in Europe it’s usually just €10/€15 for extra legroom so not bad at all. Although I never pay it personally since the flights here are so short anyways (2 hours is normal).

[@gregsimoes8645]

@@fudgebaker I think that's inaccurate though. I'm pretty budget conscious for airlines and usually go for the "cheapest" option, but I can also distinguish between a complete "trash" airline. If we're honestly talking $10 difference, I think a GOOD airline will fill even if the trash airline can also fill. Even "short" flights are over $200 nowadays, so a price bump of less than 5% (potentially MUCH less) for a better experience would be worth it, but that would certainly be an INVESTMENT that would take time to pay off. $10 is REALLY not a level of variance to put people off X vs Y when we're talking hundreds of dollars a seat. But it really does depend on how much variance we're talking. I'm not super tall, so a small price bump for an extra inch of space won't move the needle for me. I think IF an airline were able to provide a SIGNIFICANT upgrade in experience, people would pay over the long haul. Just as comparison, if one airline had plush comfortable seats and the other had hard plastic seats with no cushion, I think the plush seats would win out even with a price increase assuming the flight is more than an hour. But we're usually talking INCREMENTAL improvements that most people barely notice, if at all.

[@spencerwilton5831]

$80 for more leg room? In Europe that's more than double the cost of the entire return ticket.

[@commentbot9510]

There isn't even that much more room either.

[@azan-183]

The only way I see economy class transforming is if low-cost airlines that only have one class on longer routes can significantly improve their seats. That would really shake the market up.

[@fl0pZ3]

yeah but first and business class is what makes airlines most of it’s money so they aren’t gonna get rid of it

[@azan-183]

@@fl0pZ3 true but exclusively economy airlines like Southwest could make its seats better and the others would have to also in order to compete.

[@willy4170]

But low cost carriers don’t make long haul travels, but only regional ones that lasts only a few hours

[@azan-183]

@@willy4170 JetBlue?

[@therepublic21]

@@fl0pZ3 cargo on long haul flights makes all the money

[@annoyingmissingtexture2431]

“Why airlines will never improve economy class.” Mr. Crabs: *money*

[@WooHooLadttv]

Flying is borderline torture for anybody above 6 foot.

[@derpedfox]

So having small balls make you taller?

[@jakubmaj4975]

Fancy meeting you here.

[@WooHooLadttv]

@@derpedfox yes

[@WooHooLadttv]

@@jakubmaj4975 hi

[@edsmemefactory]

Took the height from the balls and put them in the legs

[@mikiqex]

I'd love to pay a bit more for a better seat, but since Premium Economy costs double and Business costs quadruple, I'm staying in the cattle class. Also, the price difference, caused by worsening the service, seems to be eaten by inflation or greed, because similar ticket from Prague to NYC (classic airline, 0-1 stops with connection guarantee) cost pretty much the same in 2006 as it did in 2019 ($750).

[@zelva6792]

i completely agree. the upgrade to econ+ or business isnt small. its not $10 or even $100 as he mentions ("..customers wont even pay a small amount for extra comfort...) . econ+ is easily double, and forget business or 1st class which can be as high as several thousand more. i am very willing to pay extra to not have my neighbor drooling on my shoulder, or the kid behind me kicking my seat and screaming for hours. but not like $1,000 or more. and for your average american flying just a few hours that extra $1,000 (or likely more) simply isnt worth it. i would happily pay 300-500 more for a flight lasting 5 or more hours but not thousands. and thousands is what we are talking about here. and thats not 'a small amount' to the average person

[@exiledknight3961]

@@zelva6792 Agree he is making a mistake by saying they would charge very little for an extra inch of space. I am 2 meters tall and would gladly pay extra if it was only 10 dollars.

[@lzh4950]

Saw a Wendover video saying that premium passengers are subsidising economy ones, with the former contributing to almost 1/2 of a flight's revenue with less than 1/2 of the flight's total no. of seats. Maybe aviation is just expensive to start with, given it's complexity e.g. need to dismantle & re-build a plane during a C/D-check IIRC, multitude of navigation & communication systems/ATC out there e.g. VOR, DME, PAPI, ILS. Safety requirements are higher too I think, since with aviation there'll be a greater delay between an emergency onset & evacuation. With other modes of transport you slam on the emergency brakes & then evacuate, but for planes you 1st have to find a place to land (nearest airport could be as far away from you as ETOPS allow i.e. 6h10min away, so your aircraft has to be durable enough to still be able to remain in 1 piece for that long after the emergency e.g. fuselage rupture, fire 1st occurs (SR111 didn't/wasn't, sadly). Additionally the aircraft may have to dump fuel 1st before landing, further delaying evacuation

[@Jrez]

The price is the same? Then with inflation...

[@aolson1111]

You think keeping the price the same over 15 years is "greed?" Do you not understand what inflation is?

[@parasitius]

"a tiny premium for increased comfort" is a bit of odd phrasing when you mean a variance equal to half what I'm willing to pay for the month in rent, but, ok whatever floats your boat. The price difference from the flight I take on a route and the next least expensive option is almost always at least $200 but USUALLY $400~500. This has been the rule since I became a very frequent flyer around 2001.

[@amberbesharah1630]

I'm glad somebody said it, I'd gladly pay $10 extra for a better seat. Hell-ive paid $20 for a cab after work instead of taking a bus (when I had a bus pass) because I had a bad day. But the discrepancy is wayy more than $10

[@Naharu.]

Yeah, if it was that cheap l'd probably do it, but l'd never pay a price enough to get me and my family fed for a good while for the size equivalent to a skinny ant.

[@christianemden7637]

I also had a problem with his price scale, just for giggles i looked up a flight from the US to Germany. The price difference between economy and business was a factor 10 in price.

[@Yume03]

I think he was describing not difference between economy and economy + but between economy and economy near the front or the wings of the airplane where you pay around 10$ more for more leg room... But that extra leg room is not worth it for me there because you can’t have your bag on your lap in those seats.

[@maxstromberg7666]

Most flights here in Europe have upgrades for €10/€15 but we’re talking about a two/three hour flight with that.

[@ScripulousFingore6133]

I never cared about the quality as long as it had Wi-Fi.

[@dudevonsofa1344]

Screaming children.

[@ScripulousFingore6133]

@@dudevonsofa1344 lol. I guess I got lucky. Either that or I didn't notice with my earbuds in

[@yogertslinger84]

True. I fly southwest and as long as I have wifi with free TV and movies I'm good.

[@dodonodens8802]

Okie dokey

[@dodonodens8802]

I cared if the planes are eco friendly and safe

[@kaydreamer]

I only ever fly Singapore Airlines if I can help it. Getting anywhere from Australia takes a long time, and transiting through Changi is always an absolute treat. My partner and I often book a stopover to last several hours in Singapore, so we can explore and tire ourselves out to the point where it's easier to sleep on the second leg of the flight. Not to mention, they do seem slightly roomier than other planes. I'm very small, though. Always happy to take the window seat, so I can spare those with longer legs.

[@noname-bt9ky]

Same I only fly Finnair and other premium airlines.

[@TheBlooRayChannel]

I've been flying for 30 years now. Long and short. All classes. I couldn't care less. At the end of the flight on all three classes, particularly on long haul flights, I still felt sloppy and tired and just needed to shower and sleep. Sure there are more options with food, but I've got SO MUCH MORE on the ground. I always choose to spend that extra bit on a nice hotel. Cheap economy seat + quality hotel is the way to go.

[@aniruddhkubal2936]

Okay, this certainly makes so much sense. Spending on a hotel is much beneficial than spending on a airplane seat!

[@TheBlooRayChannel]

@@aniruddhkubal2936 yep. The premium you pay for a 6 hour business class flight that lasts a few hours can often get you a hotel greater than a 4* rating for a good few DAYS

[@cecilia4267]

yes!! flights will end in less than a day, you can be sleeping in a hotel for a week+ !!

[@gattaca8]

I disagree. Especially on a long haul flight back home from a relaxing vacation. I can not fly eco, and ruin my relaxation from my holiday. I always spend money to make the flight as pleasant as possible, and maybe find a cheaper hotel instead

[@danielgallandat4376]

@@gattaca8 exactly right

[@nicholaskazantzidis]

That’s why jet blue is on another level. Yes it’s economy, yet safe, decent room, great entertainment, friendly staff, reasonable prices, and most important blue chips!

[@bigvaxmeanie925]

Not for long. American airlines own them now

[@Unbrickme]

They also have jet blue mint

[@Windows11Official]

@@bigvaxmeanie925 Yeah they don't

[@74jf92jd]

Don’t forget Air New Zealand they have next level quality and their employees are the kindest I’ve met

[@tsk961]

We fly from Portland on Jet occasionally for vacation, it's really nice ( jet blue is really good and Portland airport is one of the best in every way.)

[@RedBlue554]

Me: I’d pay more for legroom. My mum: how about no

[@Snowshowslow]

Why does your mom decide that? 🤔

[@jinatlas8674]

@@Snowshowslow simple. his/her mom is the one whom is paying for the ticket. lol

[@alexandramcginnis8872]

Jin Atlas Use “They” when you don’t know the gender. She/her is less concise and is also less inclusive

[@jinatlas8674]

@@alexandramcginnis8872 Seriously? Tbh I don't really care. If you have an issue with me using His/her rather than they/them then that is your own personal problem. Not mine. Honey. 😘😘😘

[@exceptionallyriso]

@@jinatlas8674 You should use 'their' instead of 'his/him', it's hard to understand for others if you keep using the slashes

[@hombreg1]

And then you have me, as a traveller, choosing the better routes and paying a little extra to avoid discomfort

[@connormclernon26]

That’s exactly what they want

[@sjwarialaw8155]

You make my tickets cheaper, so I can only respect your decision. If I had the money I wouldn't mind paying more.

[@Kev98]

„little extra“ yeah right

[@adamleddy9894]

My business travel enables my comfortable personal flight

[@lidia.aurora]

Bruh. If it was “a little extra” to people they would pay it. Not everybody has the funds to pay for comfort so its not a flex of intelligence to say you buy a better ticket (just one of wealth).

[@theoverunderthinker]

I flew Economy on Turkish airlines (long haul) and seat size and the food/service were noticeably a level better than United/Delta/American/Lufthansa for the same route.

[@LisaF777]

Yes! This is true for Turkish Airlines

[@shannon81726]

i’ve discovered the same with Emirates, it’s pretty comparable if not slightly better than turkish airlines imo

[@fly89]

yep i fly to asia regularly from europe. i am just 5”2”, so it is most of the time bearable. Once i flown to Chicago from Heathrow with a murrican airline, and i felt it is too tight, even for a small rabbit like me.

[@sofia-js6ys]

I love Turkish!

[@davidhill1634]

Big three in Alaskan airline should be ashamed of themselves

[@SEELE-ONE]

Yeah, not buying the “tiny fare for a bit more” argument… Those “tiny fares” are usually in the $100 or more range

[@Marlene34927]

That is true. Say, they gave u about 10 inches more legroom and better seats for economy in a reasonably large plane. That adds up to about 3 to 4 rows being lost with 1 column also lost due to wider seats. That will be about 35 seats. If each of the lost seats in 300$ that is 9000$ + in loss, needed to be borene by the passenger. So yes, 100 dollars adds up

[@deviouslaw]

Yeah exactly, pay a little more is one thing but seat upgrades are pretty astronomical in price.

[@aolson1111]

@@deviouslaw No they aren't. It's much less than what you would have paid for a similar experience a couple decades ago. What you're really saying is that that extra space doesn't actually matter all that much. If it did, you would pay for it.

[@deviouslaw]

@@aolson1111 uh no, that's not what I'm saying at all. If offered, I would pay 10% more for a bit extra space. I will not pay 50-100% more for extra space.

[@damascus6478]

I fly Newark to London twice a year and have always flown economy. Today's premium economy is what used to be regular economy. I just looked up airfares on United from EWR to LHR, about $725 economy, more than $1,400 premium economy. I'd rather have an extra few days in London instead of a slightly bigger seat.

[@dougle03]

I live 90 miles away from London and would rather be anywhere but London.... Big comfy seat for me please... lol

[@Reebus_]

I guess the only way to fix this would be through regulation, to have a minimum level of comfort that all airlines have to adhere to internationally a bit like safety requirements.

[@gustavoangladacancel5613]

That would make it more expensive killing the point

[@0Ploxx]

With half of these seats you can’t even brace so good luck surviving the crash What we need is a blood sacrifice that shows how these cramped seats are bad

[@acronvron9665]

@@0Ploxx yeah sometimes this is the only way

[@danielchan1668]

@@0Ploxx Underrated.

[@greenmatius]

this will have a hard time passing international agreement: 1. comfort is nothing like safety requirements and are not comparable in terms of importance 2. countries with poorer economy as local airlines would need to purchase relatively more expensive technology, local airports have to pay more to invites international flights to land and travelling becomes less affordable by their people, hence reducing income for the airport, further damaging their economy

[@katiekhabbazi6849]

Blaming the customer is how massive corporations absolve themselves of responsibility.

[@SerenityScratch]

They give you what you want and what you’re willing to pay for. It’s how demand works. It’s always the customer that chooses what is being sold and what continues being sold.

[@katiekhabbazi6849]

@@SerenityScratch You're just describing how corporations behave, you're not justifying it. Don't act as if they have no agency. They *choose* to chase profits at all costs, and should be held accountable for that.

[@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385]

@@katiekhabbazi6849 If they didn't chase profits, they wouldn't exist, and you'd have no way to get across the world in less than a day. Sure, you can argue their methods of obtaining said profit can be scummy, and you'd be right. But without that incentive of making money, there's literally no reason for them to provide the service in the first place. If you really want to make a difference in the quality of airline travel, only fly with companies known for good service and comfortable seats. You'll pay a bit of a premium for it, sure, but when enough people start doing so, that's how market trends start to shift. Alternatively, start your own airline service and provide those amenities you see fit, and if your philosophy on the matter prevails, other airlines will be forced to follow suit. Never forget, real change necessitates real action, and at the end of the day, old men shouting at clouds will never get anything done.

[@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385]

@Aquarium Gravel Well then, someone drank the koolaid.

[@coupledyetivonvanderburg5385]

@Aquarium Gravel Powerful men do bad things, and so too does the sun rise in the East and set in the West. So then, Spartacus, what's your plan to deal with this unfortunate reality? Yell? Scream? Fight? Run? Doesn't really matter, you won't be the first to try, and you won't be the first to fail at affecting any meaningful change. Even if you burn the world to the ground, from the ashes shall rise new tyrants ready to take what's theirs. I suggest you learn to accept the futility of fighting someone else's battles. You'll be much happier that way. Instead, use that anger, that passion burning inside of you, and forge the tools you need for your own success. When push comes to shove, they'll do you much better than shouting into the aether.

[@MEWilliamsEsq]

This assumes that improving the seats in economy comes without any improvement to the other classes. Your premise is off. If you improve the seats in economy but provide things in the other classes that you otherwise obviously can't get, then you still have a need for those classes. It isn't just seat comfort people want. Noise reductions, food quality and choices, drink options, inflight entertainment, seat position on the plane, all factor in.

[@dstblj5222]

those are not a factor to corporate accounts which is where the money is they pay for a bed to save a night in a hotel and perdiem/schedule complications nothing else

[@dubnationx86i]

In a small scale this could work but in a larger scale why would I pay higher for a little bit of comfort in business class at British airways when I can get a decent business class for cheaper with Lufthansa for example I would choose the cheaper one especially if I fly regularly so it's not that easy to upgrade all the planes, they'll have to do so and still be competitive and it's not necessarily worth it for the airline

[@NevG27]

I disagree. You could make business class feel like a suite at the JW Marriott, but if economy gives a comfortable seat with enough leg room and even a lie flat bed, I'd take it. I'd bet the majority of people who fly PE or Business do so not because it's a super luxurious experience but because flying economy is torture.

[@beneyweneys]

I'm pretty sure most ppl who fly business are there just for the seat. The lounge and food is great but they rly are just after the seat. Only the richest of the richest would bother spending money on business class.

[@Suavocado602]

@@beneyweneys literally the only reason I pay more for those flights. I’ve flown hundreds of times and went to the lounge twice. I flew economy last year for the first time in a while for a 6 hour flight and it was horrible. My legs hurt, neck cramped, not a single comfortable position.

[@tperk]

I've flown long haul economy across the Pacific and back a dozen times and it's always been completely comfortable. Then again I was flying an Asian-based airline where they care about each passenger's needs no matter where you're seated

[@joesr31]

Singapore airline?

[@Sunlest]

Asian airlines are always nice to go on for me, and the food was good too.

[@starrimoss7377]

which airline?

[@Sunlest]

@@starrimoss7377 I've done Korea Air (expensive), Cathay, China Air, Chinese Airlines. I'm not tall though, so the experience will vary, but I feel better than any US airliner so far.

[@salvatoremaglione6398]

@@Sunlest Why is Korean Air expensive? Just asking.

[@albusdumbledore5875]

In-flight entertainment isn't that necessary with phones and tablets

[@nickylaraiso9328]

@Too Soon I usually start getting nauseous after more than a couple of hours flying. It's the reason I order Ginger Ale on a plane flight to any long destination.

[@TheLostfoundation]

Thats the thing with at least American they have an app that you can download that acts as their ife and its so much better because I can use my wireless headphones which are better than any wired ones I've used

[@nickylaraiso9328]

@Too Soon I've also had Antacid Tablets that have somewhat helped me out as well, but Ginger Ale is usually the best idea for me.

[@rommelcandiani6358]

Because obviously everybody has those

[@TheLostfoundation]

@@rommelcandiani6358 at this point if you don't have a phone that's on you, and the app is free

[@oxdhaoxt3694]

I flew economy on delta for 14hours from Atlanta to Istanbul and if someone had asked me to pay double and move up to business class mid flight I would have emptied my savings. Worst back and neck pain I’ve ever felt in my life

[@tubby_1278]

I would've done the same too LOL

[@beths3288]

"WE" did NOT do this. The manipulation of the economy by the very wealthy did this. Of course most people pay less, because most people are comparatively poor. An extra $100 for more leg room is ridiculously out of reach for most people. They don't choose economy class out of want, they choose it out of need because they're already over-spending just to take the flight in the first place. Most people are used to taking discomfort in order to save money. It's part of their involuntary, obligatory lifestyle. Airlines will never make economy passenger comfort a priority, but that doesn't mean we should accept it without protest and blame ourselves.

[@harshav8157]

omg this! this guy is out hasnt send the reality of the masses

[@ishaanvasudeva5996]

I mean you get what you pay for I dont see the argument

[@_tsu_]

Bro it's 3-4 hours and ticket prices have only been going down. Get over it.

[@RadenWA]

Basically “If we had more money we’d pay for the extra comfort, but we literally don’t so let’s blame whatever caused us to not have more money”

[@Jules_Elizabethy]

Bravo, this is o true.

[@paulbobenhausen8031]

As an economics student, that graph makes me sad- what is it trying to visualize, why are the X and Y values just completely disconnected from each other, w h y

[@militaristaustrian]

Its a simple Video for normal ppl

[@NoahNelson-Smith]

It messed with my head as well, a graph is meant to illustrate a point.

[@furinick]

That graph is a warcrime

[@LordOfLemon]

Yeah, it's pretty bad. PragerU is also famous for doing this nonsense to trick people.

[@matthewpentecost9604]

Economist here, and I'm glad to see I didn't have to be the first to make this comment. That graph made my brain hurt.

[@AfroSunshineX]

Unwillingness to pay a premium? Or some of us just don't have that type of money and still need to travel periodically

[@aliciaalexander5368]

its both. Like when I or my friends would buy tickets with the money being not an issue we would always get economy or economy plus 95% of the time. Because you just want to get it over with and sleep through the flight. But then spend 1000s on luxury hotels and rentals. Its weird but paying more for a flight feels like paying for a better seat on train to hell. Not like your really pumped. Only one is maybe emirates and qatar air which I still didn't think it was worth the money. So yea its unwillingness lol

[@Frietoe]

Not having enough money is one reason to be unwilling to pay a lot of money

[@yougotgamesonyourphone6947]

@@nicholasrv8834 “just don’t be poor”

[@aolson1111]

Drive a car or take a bus. You don't NEED to fly.

[@ZorimePati]

Honestly, I wouldnt mind paying $50 to upgrade my seat on long haul flights, but many airlines would charge 100s for the small upgrade. thats my issue. I only want to save money to a minimum for flights that take less than 2 hours.

[@Mariazellerbahn]

4:28 "A seat to your final destination". I couldn't have phrased it better myself.

[@siverspotlight]

So why don't companies with no premium economy, business and first (eg ryanair, easyjet) choose the more comfortable seats? Wouldn't it give them an extra edge?

[@TobiasLeininger]

Because they cost more, need more maintenance, better cleaning, and so on. And that makes them more expensive.

[@BP-xv7fj]

Basically: flying is necessity. Good economy would reduce demand for business class. So ya you have to suffer

[@Frisher1]

@Alt Account In the main airline business here it just gets you better food and better seats, foot space is same, and first class is the same seat but upgraded and ofcourse better food, more space and somehow the price difference is not that much, so first class is always full, and so is economy, but business is always lacking passengers

[@aolson1111]

Flying is not a necessity.

[@mateenio2186]

Best Economy class I've flown is on Qatar Airways A380, service and seat space was impressive

[@nigelxavier883]

I flew from London to Bangkok and it was great. I got my gluten free meal as same time as others got their meal. It was an A380 in January 2018.

[@impagain]

Airlines: "Are we so out of touch? ...No. It's people not wanting to pay $10 more for legroom who are wrong." This seems more like "blame the poor" mentality. In my experience the majority of people not choosing slightly more expensive options aren't choosing, they just CAN'T choose more expensive. If good, affordable options for economy class are available, then there are options for every other class too.

[@bunny5914]

This ^ It’s the executives that choose to have shitty economy class products

[@impagain]

@@bunny5914 EXACTLY!

[@aubreyh1930]

Fr. If I could take the better option without it being a horrible move financially I definitely would. I’ve got hip and knee problems and sitting with zero leg room for more than 30 minutes is hard, and it gets harder the longer I do it. But it’s much too expensive to upgrade

[@BZ-rr1wt]

I have the complete opposite take. I would literally fly standing up if I could pay less.

[@21Arrozito]

@@BZ-rr1wt for me, standing up would be more comfortable than economy

[@abhijeet_ghosh]

To be honest an iPad with some offline music, games, and movies is way better than an in-flight entertainment.

[@toanvu9003]

Very good explanation. I also think one of the reason why the economy seat are terrible in general is also for the safety aspect. To pass the evacuation test, a fully loaded plane needs to evacuates all it's passenger through just one side of the plane in under 90 seconds. Alot of these seat design are very innovative and indeed would increase comfort but it would be very hard for those design to pass the evacuation test especially if you have to climb up and down from the upper loft which impedes flow. Also for a non fatal crash landing the lay flat bed layout from 7:05 makes it hard to brace for impact.

[@lzh4950]

The 777 has a large crown space above its cabin roof so perhaps a 2nd passenger deck could be wedged in there (though probably sacrificing some overhead bin space on the main deck) to fit the lofts, reducing the need to stack more lofts above each other on a single deck & thus the climbing up & down required to/from them

[@econdude3811]

Narrator/creator also did very good economic analysis at the beginning

[@AlicjaChojecka]

But.. it feels to me like you did not consider the length of the flight. The longer the flight the more money I would consider spending.

[@jujublue4426]

Same, for an hour or two I don't care having the bare minimum and an uncomfortable seat but if I have to fly to the other side of the world I prefer to have more comfort.

[@imsocool5845]

Being in a plane for me is luxury, even in economy- dont hate me for that 💅

[@raisin8328]

omg finally someone said it

[@lukamilas8648]

That’s why economy is trash

[@avinabamandal3204]

People say money doesn't make you happy well they are lying

[@myespetfroge5624]

@@avinabamandal3204 sad but true

[@violethaye6987]

@@avinabamandal3204 well it doesn't solve all your problems, but it does solve all your money problems. lol

[@aresef]

When Virgin America was around, I would go out of my way to fly their economy class.

[@dingdongditch1000]

This is why I love JetBlue. Best economy seat of the US airlines.

[@yoironfistbro8128]

We could REALLY do with something similar in Europe 😭

[@callum8147]

I think one of the other issues is that people either don't look to see why one economy seat might be slightly more expensive than the other OR that information just isn't available or isn't advertised. They just see two economy seats and notice that one is cheaper than the other and go with the cheaper option. I don't think people are necessarily against paying a small premium for a more comfortable experience (this is certainly a factor) but also they aren't aware of which features they are getting and which features they aren't getting in a product.

[@eggfriedriceisnice3978]

Your content is genuinely impressive, its some of the highest quality aviation content on youtube

[@almightynz2683]

Love your down to earth, concise and honest reviews. I really appreciate it, thank you!

[@HorneyOne]

I think you're right at the moment. However, there's going to be a point where low cost travel gets so bad people turn to better options. The market will have to look towards low-cost carriers to see how cheap economy can be

[@richarddumont5389]

Very interesting analysis. I believe that this race to the bottom is also caused by the lack of mandatory information about the pitch you get with the seat you are buying. I know this info can be found but it is not displayed by vendors at the time of purchase... eg: YC27 would serve to describe an economy seat pitched at 27...

[@NonstopDan]

Yeah to some extent, but I also wonder how many people would pay extra if the legroom was greater?😅

[@richarddumont5389]

@@NonstopDan i certainly would make a decision and go for the highest pitched seat and will stick to that choice - especially on long haul flight where pitch does matter when you are tall. I believe you reasoning is completely true for short haul flights ... I too travel europ with Easy Jet for one or two hours it is acceptable.

[@ryantang4109]

If there are smarter seat allocations that fit in as much passengers as economy but are more comfort, then airline might consider using them to replace current economy plus, so they can fit in more people in Econ+ while charge the same price

[@petitcroquette7831]

Another high end quality documentary... 👏👌👍❤🛫🛬✈

[@firstdurhamite1142]

blaming it on the consumer is disingenuous. Ultimately its the shareholders looking to improve profit margins that decide to strip service.

[@tomr7235]

Then why don't the "economy-only" carriers install these better seats?

[@johnathankain8033]

Their planes are nearly always full, so they have no reason to invest in anything but the cheapest i'd guess.

[@HesderOleh]

@@nicholasrv8834 but it could be used to get them even more full and a leg up on the competition. If you don't keep innovating, someone else will.

[@dubnationx86i]

@@HesderOleh Can you get more full than 90% 😂. They'll spend more and won't increase their profit so why would they invest? if they invest they need a return of investment how would they gain more money doing that?

[@HesderOleh]

@@dubnationx86i You can get 99% full. The ROI is the money they didn't lose to competitors who are innovating while they stay stagnant.

[@raftguide3r]

I was thinking the same thing... if it really wouldn't cost them anymore why wouldn't an airline like South West jump on it.... they'd only be taking business or economy+ passengers from other airlines.

[@harveybroekhuizen3866]

Great video Dan. Keep them coming!👍

[@NonstopDan]

Thanks Harvey🙌

[@idb2100]

Love ur videos dan... They have a sense OF CALMNESS 👍🙏🏻❤️

[@adventuregirl4275]

I'm one of those suckers who flies spirit and brings only a backpack and my own snacks on board. But doing this Has enable me to see the world without putting myself in dept

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

"I reserve this level of anger for when I'm flying Ryanair."

[@Hasmanian]

I find that what I'm willing to pay for my flight depends on my reason for flying. For a casual visit with friends or family price is everything, but I'm not going to begin a 4 or 5 star vacation with a 2 star plane ticket.

[@alexandraeilise]

Exactly. I'm not going to upgrade for a four hour flight, but I'd happily pay a couple hundred dollars more to be more comfortable on a flight that's 8 hours plus.

[@mauchkimberly]

Same.

[@strategicgamingwithaacorns2874]

"Welcome to Sardine Can Airlines, how may we fly you somewhere quickly at the expense of all humane comfort today?" -Every Airline Ever.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

If only it was truly quick... any flight above 6-7 hours length is an ordeal.

[@pokepress]

While I generally agree with your analysis, I typically avoid the word “never”. It is a long time, after all. 😉

[@mitchell10394]

I agree with you. There is a probably a solution. Whether it is an immense upgrade to business and first class or increases in airplane efficiency to increase margins, I believe it will happen. Probably not in the next 30 years or so. Maybe electric planes will make it viable.

[@juixystardust5305]

My love of aircraft and flying started as a child, immigrating from Ireland to Canada .

[@linusogrim]

I feel like he blames the costumer a lot and not you know, generally the free market

[@K3end0]

And who buys the goods and services in the free market...?

[@linusogrim]

@@K3end0 of course it’s technically the consumers that took the decision to fly cheaper. But he implies that if the consumers would have bought more expensive tickets, that would have fixed the problem. And that it is the consumers fault somehow, but that’s not really anybody’s doing, that’s just how the free market works

[@nonec384]

@@linusogrim that would , and its not only 10 dolar more a first class is 20k right? the best part is that 10 dolars is more than 1/20 of my country minimun wage 😄

[@tomdalton4293]

Great video, what was left out though is that it was airline deregulation that spurred the growth of low cost carriers

[@Tvsnumber1fan]

That is so true. Before the late 1970s/early to mid 1980s minimum fares were set by the CAB in the United States, and other such regulators in other nations. Basically back in the 1970s airlines were treated much more like utilities then they are now. Also in many parts of the world airlines were state owned monopolies which had little to no competition.

[@tomdalton4293]

@@nicholasrv8834 it affects them in some varying degree if they operate in the U.S.

[@moalzaben5554]

Hey Dan let me tell ya somethin about saudia’s new a320 that has business class flat beds, and there are only 90 economy seats, currently these aircraft are flying to Munich, Frankfurt, Vienna, Rome, Geneva, and I believe Paris and Milan, I was flying one to geneva on economy and I swear the leg room was great the seat is literally from the Dreamliner and the service in economy they treated us like business by placing blankets on the tray tables and serving us the food, I will never forget the experience

[@tomcurda4203]

Sounds grand. Wish they flew in America.

[@moalzaben5554]

It does fam, but it’s an a320, I think u can find same service on 777 ERs

[@rogerhargreaves2272]

Brilliant explanation of the economics involved, also beautifully read out; your voice is so clear and your intonation is spot on. I flew to New Zealand from London on Singapore airlines economy and it was great. Ryanair, short haul, NEVER again. Great vid Dan! 👍✨

[@nm9266]

The real reason for prices dropping was the deregulation of airline pricing in the airline deregulation act in 1978. Before that prices were regulated. And the real pioneer in low cost airlines was Pacific Southwest or just Southwest now.

[@Frisher1]

Protip: Choose the window seat, extra space because there is nobody to one of your sides and you can lean against the wall

[@towaritch]

That and the emergency exit (you can extend your legs) but they make you pay a premium.

[@MajesticJewnicorn]

A lot of economy airline experiences treat flying as a "means to an end", rather than an inclusive element of a vacation. The best economy classes are Middle Eastern such as Etihad. The problem with airlines with multiple classes is the fact that budget airlines exist and there are fears around gaining customers for short haul flights, which are a huge chunk of sales.

[@aspenjohnson1891]

ive only been on virgin, quantas and air nz and air new zealand oh my goodness their economy was the best, the safety video was actually interesting wow

[@chrismaraboli]

Great video! I have to admit that I don’t mind economy class. I have been able to travel the world for relatively cheap and I’m not too heartbroken about the lack of service. Plus if you fly an airline like SWISS, you are still treated pretty well!

[@NonstopDan]

Glad to hear you’ve had a good experience with Swiss. The difference between economy on different airlines can be big!

[@edwardbishop3150]

flying is the only time I'm happy that I'm only 5'5'' as a male

[@awesometastic-1017]

I’ve flown once in premium (essentially first class for a domestic flight). This was done out of necessity as my father and I were returning from vacation after the airlines canceled the original flight, and we were worried about making a connection if sitting in coach (as we normally did). Guys, I’m rather short as a 20-something, but premium was so spacious I, quite literally, was able to curl up in my chair, fully on my side, and sleep. It was the most comfortable flight of my life. If it wasn’t so expensive, I’d do it again.

[@tubby_1278]

Premium economy? It's almost as much as a business class ticket. Why is it so hard to get comfort on a plane? I just want to be able to sleep comfortably on a plane lol....

[@walkerw4863]

3:47 man just casually pulled out an AD/AS graph

[@msjkramey]

You mean the first thing you learn in econ and he didn't even use it correctly? Sure

[@laurenconrad1799]

I once flew basic economy from London to New York and ended up with an entire four row section to myself. I booked the flight on a Tuesday to save money and I think that really helped with this.

[@Philippe_Gruijthuijzen]

You were just lucky. Probably the other people in your row checked in but did not board. That is the most pausible explaination you had a row for yourself. Not you booked on Tuesday, because most seats are assigned some days before departure.

[@henryd1981]

I'm surprised you didn't mention, at least for the United States, the role of the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, which resulted in, among other things, the proliferation of low cost carriers in the US. It also forced US Legacy carriers to lower fares and to cut costs. Some carriers, such as Braniff and Eastern, wouldn't survive the post-deregulation environment.

[@SometimesPerplexed]

I don’t fully agree because the specific option “slightly more comfortable seats for $10 more” never appears on flight purchase menus, so we don’t know whether it would have a lot of takers. I just priced Comfort Plus on a Delta round trip for August and it adds around 30% to regular coach fare. I’m in the older segment of the flying public and I have resolved that I will never again (except for unforeseen emergencies I suppose) take an overnight flight in less than enough comfort for a decent night’s sleep. This isn’t because I’m super picky, but because a sleepless uncomfortable night takes a toll that I’m not willing to accept, especially factoring in jet lag, delays, security lines, etc. Airlines are hoping that people like me will pay or spend points for an upgrade. We might, or we might skip the trip.

[@patricks.7951]

I got stuck right behind the divider wall from first class and economy on an 18 hour flight.... And I was in the middle seat. That had to have been the worst seat on the plane. On top of having no leg room, I couldn’t even straighten my legs out because of the divider wall. It was horrible.

[@q8xc409]

I'm a simple man. I find good content, I subscribe.

[@leekshikapinnamneni4835]

You’d be a fun person to travel with. I love your channel so much.

[@glow3115]

Honestly a year ago I flew on Air New Zealand and it was a good experience.

[@brandbryce]

great depth on this one, Dan!

[@dinowarrior2167]

Ok then improve First class with next gen seats, move old first class seats to buisness, buisness seats to econ+ and econ plus seats to econ and keep the prices. Trickle down effect its called hand me down, you spend little money in the process.

[@-hello6177]

the next gen seats cost money, and keeping the prices doesn't give it back, they're gonna need to increase the prices for at least the next gen first class, but then a bunch of people who used first class are going to begin using business since it is a quality they were already satisfied with, and the ones in business would go to economy plus, and the ones in economy plus to economy

[@aubreyh1930]

@@-hello6177 you forget that there’s a ton of rich snobs who want nothing but the best. Make them pay for it lmfao

[@c1oud09]

Ugh I hate how true this is. Cmon people like $10 isn’t much more. Your probably paying that to check a bag on RyanAir. ;-;

[@nntflow7058]

Majority of flights are bellow 2 hours. I think most people won't care much about extra legroom or IFE.

[@nakkadu]

@@nntflow7058 i agree....I'm 6' 2 and quite happy in a Ryanair seat for a few hours.

[@ss7progmail]

I'd you didn't notice legacy carriers also started to charge for bags even on short flights. They call it Economy light.

[@helenab9973]

In my opinion, saving $10 is not worth sacrificing the comfort and service. If something unexpected happens the low cost carriers will not provide help and you end up paying more.

[@NarutoHarryPotter]

Checking a bag in RyanAir sometimes cost more than the flight itself 🤣😂

[@Lala47362]

Is it just me that doesn’t mind economy class, I usually just sleep the whole time lol

[@WildBikerBill]

Back around 1998 I flew economy from Atlanta, Georgia USA to Frankfurt, Germany. I put my tray table down, put my small pillow on it, leaned forward and down to put my head on that, with my arms around my head. I slept from shortly after last North American landfall to overflying Ireland. Fast forward about fifteen years. This time I'm flying USA to Israel. Leaning forward and down to put my head down on the tray table is physically impossible, the seat in front is to close, I must remain bolt upright. When the person in front leans back, it now contacts my knees and shins. I and the person(s) next to me can not use the arm rests at the same time, I ended up sitting with my arms crossed over in front of me. I realize the fact I am 6'1" (185 cm) tall has something to do with this. It's also something I can't change.

[@LetiziaCamboni]

I'm curious. How much time does it take you to research, write and make that kind of video? Such a good work! ❤️

[@davidatwork]

Dan, I have been watching your videos for sometime. This is my first comment. Why? I love the first class and business videos you have done. I have to tell you that I love this video. It explains a lot and I do agree with you, 100%.

[@opus2006]

Stumbled across this channel and am really enjoying it. As regards BA the Basic long-haul tickets should be renamed "hard tack and swill" class.

[@mentonerodominicano]

I would pay more for economy if the checked bags were included in the ticket.

[@mentonerodominicano]

@@nicholasrv8834 I usually fly SW domestically. The prices are good as long as I book months in advance.

[@tubamansmom7012]

Dan your assessment it spot on. It is customers who drive this. But also in the back of my mind I keep recalling passenger complaints and the uptick in fights on flights and even on the ground between customers and /or customers and airline employees. I think you are right that unless we ebb flying because of economy comfort and service nothing will change. Interesting to see if any changes come out as a result of COVID.

[@user-hr9hy9it7q]

Imagine boarding a western airline. Middle Eastern airlines are always improving economy class

[@the11382]

European or American? Because there are major differences.

[@user-hr9hy9it7q]

@@the11382 Both with the exception of Lufthansa

[@willy4170]

But those are not low cost carriers

[@user-hr9hy9it7q]

@@willy4170 They are if you live near their hubs, also they're not Ryan Air cheap but they're also not that expensive

[@willy4170]

@@user-hr9hy9it7q emirates for example is not cheap at all, it is expensive af

[@yasinjohnson4687]

Great video. Very constructive and educational 👍

[@electrogeek77]

This perpetual strip down of economy is one of the (many) reasons why air travel is such a horrendous experience for passengers with disabilities.

[@HGrrrr]

I wish when they started implementing extra charges for luggage and everything, we all stood up to airlines who did it and so others didn’t follow suit.

[@Monaleenian]

"Stood up to airlines"?! What were we going to do? Swim to our destinations?! The reality is that people actually preferred paying for luggage and everything else separately, instead of paying more and being given a baggage allowance whether or not they needed it. It was consumer choice that drove us to the current situation. We only got here as a result of the airlines offering people more attractive deals than the alternatives that were available at the time.

[@HGrrrr]

@@Monaleenian shocking you don’t realize you’re paying way more in the end when everything’s a separate charge

[@Monaleenian]

@@HGrrrr No, we're paying more for a flight with the in-flight meal and baggage and everything else that came with a ticket years ago because of inflation. The Federal Reserve, with its obscene money printing, has caused the price of that, and everything other product/service for which companies can't reduce costs at a rate that outpaces the Fed's inflation, to increase.

[@HGrrrr]

@@Monaleenian ohh lord you’re one of thooose. Best of luck to you!🤣

[@pela86]

An unpopular opinion for airlines BUT you are 100000000% spot on. This new series of videos of industry analysis is amazing Dan keep up the great work!!

[@shygorilla8082]

Japan Airlines Premium Economy is awesome. And you get access to the JAL lounges. We flew from Honolulu to Okinawa, Japan through Nagoya. The JAL lounge at Chubu International Airport is great!

[@kgosibogosi7232]

Thank you for not dumping your ads in the middle of a great video

[@ksahnimdl]

I dunno if anyone else mentioned this, but the flaw in this argument is that a new all economy carrier, with these fitted, at no extra cost as per the video, would make a lot of sense, they could charge the same prices during low season, and potentially clean up during high demand. It will happen in my opinion, for long haul flights.

[@grantrennie]

Have a blessed day everybody 👋

[@cobalt618]

NGL Air New Zealand has the best economy class I could ever imagine.

[@ElZamo92]

Agreed. I’ve flown with them many times across the Pacific Ocean and I’ve never had a complaint. The seats are nice, the food is great (they even give you wine), the service is good and if you have a row for yourself or your family you can turn it into a bed. Every time I can fly with them I do.

[@trooperdgb9722]

@@ElZamo92 You can only turn it into a bed if you have booked (and paid extra for) the "SkyCouch" rows. And if there are three of you, or 2 adults...good luck making any real use of the Skycouch!

[@Justineexy]

So we screwed our own Comfort in the past, now we are Preventing our selves from having comfort

[@robloxegy2565]

“The idea of taking vacations by plane more than once a year would seem absurd in the 1950’s. Me who has never even been on a plane: 👁👄👁