Why are mercenary armies are so rare in Sci-Fi?

[@dathore]

The main reason why nobles and kings would hire mercenaries is simple, if you don't hire them, your enemies will, and then they won't be your enemies for much longer.

[@gmradio2436]

Renaissance Uno Reverse card. Bribe your rivals mercs.

[@dathore]

@@gmradio2436 yeah, the bigger wallet is always the winner.

[@gmradio2436]

@@dathoreWelcome to House Steiner.

[@dathore]

@@gmradio2436 my favorite house, call in the scout lances.

[@gmradio2436]

@@dathore The story behind that meme is hilarious.

[@thestanleys3657]

"Mind tricks don't work on me, only money"

[@warlynx5644]

What about mind tricks…WITH money?

[@WickedPrince3D]

@@warlynx5644 ROFL, the final story in "Four Rooms" comes to mind. The Mouth is trying to convince the Bellboy to do something dangerous, criminal and violent, and for every minuet the Mouth talks and keeps the Bellboy listening; he puts another $100 bill on the table.

[@chickenusgoddus464]

Bounty hunter swtor?

[@patricknakasone9376]

Mercenaries where also economically useful in a primarily pre industrial farming socity as you did not have to pull men out of the fields to fight. The primary age group for soldiers is also your primary age group for farm labors.

[@kovi567]

Not having your own population die and have them provide labour instead is always economically useful. The more of your population you commit the less people are there to work in factories to make weapons, less people to produce rations, build infrastructure, construct vehicles of war, etc. The reason why we don't have much of ScI's over the top and borderline stupid definition of mercenary is because humanity has recently developed proxy wars, and that's what the big powers that everyone is turning their attention to do. In that sense, entire nations are made mercenaries by other, much bigger ones.

[@shanz7758]

@@kovi567 A sovereign state is a sovereign state. You can't argue a state is another one's mercenary only because it fights a war for the other state. If it does, it is not a mercenary state, it is a satellite state or client state if you will. But not a mercenary. Most people don't actually think YOUR definition of mercenary is the relevant one, and there are other words that already describe the kind of interactions you are speaking of.

[@kovi567]

I like your enthusiasm, however that's not what I said. You are arguing against a strawman. What I said is that in the sense of using foreign forces instead of your own, other proxy nations are used as what mercenaries were used for back then. And yes, these have a name and you are very, very smart that you remembered them. You may have your dopamine cookie now.

[@shanz7758]

@@kovi567 And I say you are abusive of what the word mercenary means. Also, as a cognitive scientist, that's not how dopamine works. But that's not really the subject.

[@kovi567]

@@shanz7758 How am I abuse to the meaning of mercenary when I have yet to give a definition?! You really like sounding smart, don't you?

[@Peregrin3]

One of the main reasons why the thirty year war was so bloody was because of how many mercenaries were used on all sides, with up to 30 million dead from famine, disease and looting.

[@cantmossadtheassad9952]

They're actually pretty common in alot of the more fleshed out sci-fi settings

[@MM22966]

He really leaned into "They're all monsters", but mercs come in just as many kinds of moral/professional shades as any other body of people. As an example, in Battletech, The Eridani Light Horse are one of the most famous merc units. They are the descendants of the Star League Defense Forces, professional soldiers of humanity's golden age in Battletech. The ELH fight because it is their job, and they wait for the day when the SLDF and the Star League to be resurrected - definitely NOT because of some desire for booty or blood-thirstiness. When they set up a camp, the ELH always fly three flags: the flag of the regiment, the flag of the House they are currently serving, and a bare pole, highest and in the center, for the day when the Star League banner can be put back up.

[@grygaming5519]

Dont forget the Northwind Highlanders who were basically the Primary Company for the Black Watch. When the Black Watch went on the exodus the majority of the Highlander Regiment stayed behind to protect their home planet of Northwind. They even went out as Mercs to provide for the planet and awfully had to work for the Capellans. When the 4th Succession War hit, under Hanse Davion who guaranteed them autonomy they eventually turned but it took a lot of concessions from the Federated Suns to push the CCAF out and give the Davions a leg up during the 4th war. Eventually they went on to side with the new Reborn SLDF with the reactivation of the Black Watch that pissed off Space Emerald Chickens, that there was a Kill on Sight for anyone connected to the Highlanders...too bad Clan Emerald Chicken got their preverbal punched hard during the Refusal Trial on Strata Mechty.

[@gmradio2436]

I know there was a mercenary prince during the Renaissance. Ended up running his own city state be the end, and had a form of mercenary honor. That said, he was an exception to mercenaries of the time. I am also aware of some swedish mercs that were absolute professionals, but absolutely lethal. They took wiping out competing companies as proof of skill. A large part of it is cultural. Just saying that there is a reason that The Prince warns against using mercenaries.

[@MM22966]

@@gmradio2436 The Sforza dukes of Milan.

[@gmradio2436]

@@MM22966 Thank you for the lead.

[@MM22966]

@@gmradio2436 You're welcome! There were others: John Hawkwood of the White Company, Prospero Colonna, Ambrogio Spinola, etc. Look up "Condottieri"

[@cp1cupcake]

12:00 At least one of the Mass Effect "mercenary companies" does get legitimate contracts, but they still generally act like thugs. Specifically, the Blue Suns operate at least one legitimate high security prison.

[@WickedPrince3D]

The mercenary companies in ME aren't really much more than criminal gangs that sometimes hire out for fights. Note that in ME2 the three main merc groups that you encounter during "Archangel" all have their hands in one (or more) branch of local crime. It's kind of hard to define them, are they mercenaries that commit crimes to supplement their merc money? Or are the criminals that hire out as mercs to supplement their crime money? Blue Suns were definitely the best organized, which-ever way you lean.

[@fix0the0spade]

Except the Blue Suns are notorious in universe for betraying clients and the 'legitimate' prison runs a protection racket demanding ever higher payments or the inmates will be set loose at an unspecified place and time. At least it did until the place mysteriously got shot up one day, the warden was killed and hundreds of inmates broke out in a hail of gunfire.

[@johnlloydkalata1962]

@@WickedPrince3D Honestly, a lot of fans and retrospectives speculated that the illusive man faction would be an optional faction to either join or to receive help, rather than be a direct antagonist, and they were the attempt for blurred-paragon-renegade options for mass effect 3.

[@WickedPrince3D]

@@johnlloydkalata1962 Except that we WATCH the Illusive Man basically Indoctrinate himself on purpose by having Reaper Tech installed at the end of ME2 - just like Saren from ME1 - despite his doctor telling him it's a terrible idea. And yes, I've read the ME book where Cerberus wrecks one of their former specialists by doing testing of implanted Reaper Tech that was a total FAIL. The Citadel AI; IE; Reapers had been using implanted tech to turn the Indoctrinated against their own people for millions of years. I can't imagine any way that this was going to work out for I.M. He was always convinced by his second-hand indoctrination from the novels that he was much smarter than he actually was. Not that it isn't an interesting idea.

[@pantherace1000]

A friend of mine had a great turn of phrase regarding Landsknecht and 16th-17th century warfare in general. "If your side didn't have Swiss Pikes they had Landsknecht, if they didn't have Landsknecht then they had Cossacks, if the didn't have Cossacks then you were on the wrong team"

[@lightspeedvictory]

At the very least, in Star Wars Legends, the Mandalorians did eventually create a mercenary army that at one point was hired by the Galactic Alliance during a spat they had with Luke Skywalker’s Jedi Order

[@Attaxalotl]

Screw Natasi Daala, all my friends hate Natasi Daala.

[@athibi9461]

Something interesting to note about the idea that in Sci Fi, mercenaries might struggle to properly equip themselves. Depending on the setting, it is entirely possible that 3d printing/ manufacturing technology gets so much easier, that a mercenary group might set up camp on a mineral rich asteroid and starts pumping out military equipment and even starships. An example I personally love is Horatio from Endless Space. An entire faction, that is essentially just an ultra rich narcissist cloning himself a few million times to make the galaxy a „better“ place, where all sentient life is Horatio.

[@CaptainBanjo-fw4fq]

Urgh…don’t tell Elon about this idea. It’s exactly the kind of thing that he would want to do.

[@johnrex7108]

@@CaptainBanjo-fw4fq Eh, he's okay... rather have an Elon overlord than a Bezos.

[@albusvoltavern4500]

At least in Star Wars. outside of the general central governments mercenary groups are quite prevalent. They don't always take the name "Mercenary" but local sector defense forces, outsourced droid armies and battleships, private station securities all essentially function the same way as mercenaries do: They will protect those who pay them, usually in their local area. Even many large pirate groups (the hutts, black sun, ect) have many independent branches that do "independent contracting work". Surprisingly enough, once you get into the gritty lore of the universe you realize that the SW universe despite its large governments is very, very lawless, especially in the expansion region and the outer rim. Even members of the central seats of power require the use of decentralized, and independent groups to protect their assets, especially in the era of the demilitarized pre clonewars era.

[@DarkPuppy9]

Kinda twisting the definition of mercenary to make your point

[@cancerbucket2245]

He is also wrong about how the lanzknexht operated

[@CaptainKeen]

Yeah. I feel like a better argument would just be that mercenaries exist on a sliding scale. In a lot of scifi settings, major nation states are unlikely to hire mercenaries. But there can still be groups that exist on the periphery, in the more lawless places. They can have organizations larger than small gangs, with high quality personal arms, that will completely dominate on some small backwater planet, even if they can't afford the infrastructure to take on major militaries, like tanks, cruisers, etc.

[@Randomusername56782]

@@CaptainKeenI disagree, even today militaries often hire mercenaries to supplement their armed forces because its cheaper to hire mercenaries then to train up and equip soldiers, and also to do dirty work for their respective nations militaries or intelligence agencies. Or even in some cases to deploy troops in regions that they legally cant be in to guard some important asset, like china and its belt and road iniative. Ie what black water and Wagner do.

[@bantakkor8039]

Mercenaries in Syfy might work better as "corporate security details" that can be bought or rented, and not so much as forces of war. For example, some agricultural planetary settlement needs protection and the party which owns the settlement approaches another party or corporation to provide security measures against criminals, untamed nature or worst case to buy time against an all out assault, but not necessarily to wage a war. These security details could still be considered "mercenaries", I'd say this is also how mass effect defines Mercs. Funnily enough Cerberus, the only non-government independent group to field an army big enough to challenge the major powers is considered just a terrorist group.

[@lordMartiya]

Macross' latest entries feature two mercenary groups (called in-universe private military contractors, but they're called for what they are at least once). Apparently there was a failed coup, after which the New United Nations decentralized and started hoarding the best equipment, while colony fleets and far-flung colonies have to do with monkey models and outdated equipment they supplement with weirdly well-equipped mercenaries.

[@mill2712]

"Looks like its those mercenaries. Think they're gonna turn tail and run again?"

[@peterglade1803]

sauce

[@darykeng]

"Not this time. Open fire."

[@weldonwin]

@@peterglade1803 Project Wingman I think

[@mr.radovic702]

"ORANGE!!!"

[@mill2712]

@@peterglade1803 Sorry I was unable to tell you. Your comment must have gotten lost. But yes, it is Project Wingman.

[@AdamMPick]

"Real mercenaries have not existed in real life for a long time?" Have you missed the whole continent of Africa? The UN Mercenary Convention entered into force in 2001. South Africa had to ban their citizens from fighting in foreign wars in 2010, because so many were joining merc units. South African mercs were instrumental in the fight against Daesh in 2015, despite that. Merc units tried to take over whole countries in and around Africa since the 60's, sometimes repeatedly in the same country. 2004 Wonga Coup comes to mind. They have included air assets, often. Either flying local machines or bringing their own. In the Eritrean-Ethiopian War Russian mercs were flying against each other on both sides. In Africa the use of merc air assets was quite often the main reason to even bring them in. Also, Landsknechte were highly regulated and disciplined, until the Sacco di Roma, they were considered very reliable and beside the Swiss the best army units in Europe. They were only allowed to fight for imperial rulers and units which fought for other kings were given no quarter. Most european rulers styled their standing national armies after them. They were literally not a thing anymore when the 30 years war started. The mercenaries of the 30 years war had little in common with Landsknechte. Landsknechte were not condottiere, armagnac, Reisläufer, Fussknechte nor brabançons. PS. There are whole book series about mercenary units in science-fiction. Falkenberg's Legion for example. Star Trek is FULL of merceneries. Did you forget the TNG double episode where Picard was captured by a mercenary unit and became a member of the crew to find an ancient vulcan weapon for a romulan agent? Or, how a bunch of mercs stormed DS9 to steal the Dax symbiote? The whole Nausicaan race is literally nothing else. There are also side remarks about Bajoran, Ferengi and Romulan mercenaries all over DS9.

[@weldonwin]

Mercenaries are mentioned as being commonplace in the Foundation Universe, with the Galactic Empire in full collapse and numerous petty kingdoms across the Galaxy, fighting one another for territory and resources

[@kyriss12]

Wasn’t foundation pretty much just Rome in space?

[@weldonwin]

@@kyriss12 Specifically, it was inspired by the book The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire. To note, this is something it also has in common with Battletech, with the Star League being inspired by the Roman Empire and it's collapse and the following Dark Ages, even if the term "Dark Ages" is heavily debated by modern historians.

[@andrew3203]

@@weldonwin , Not all modern historians are sell-outs. But when we talk about the Black Plague, we seldom see them admit that massacring the cats as 'Devil's pets' allowed rats to spread the plague far easier. And lack of bathing and spread of lice, using churches as faith hospitals instead of real medicine, burning witches (which were the herbalist doctors of the time) all point to a pretty dark age that saw Europe lose 75% of population. And the lack of lit streets as well.

[@AdamMPick]

@@weldonwinStar League was the Russian Empire. Sucession wars was the russian civil war. Aleksandr Kerensky was Alexander Kerensky, who fled before the civil war got bad. He even has the same name. The whole concept of Kerensky returning to the inner sphere is the white guard dream of returning to Russia and retaking the homeland by force for the betterment of all. The only thing they flipped, they made the exiles the communists.

[@matthewneuendorf5763]

I grew up on mercenary Science Fiction, from the obvious properties like Battletech and Star Wars to the classic authors like Pournelle and Drake. In the modern era, mercenaries are all over the place, but especially in third-world areas. They don't get as much billing as they may have in the past, and the biggest names tend to be filed under "private security" or other euphemisms to bypass certain laws in certain places (in the case of the USA, the anti-Pinkerton laws and whatnot).

[@miketogwell1000]

Pournelles Falkenbergs legion books are some of my favorites

[@roan2288]

It's a private military company, not a mercenary company I swear!

[@adrianusnicholas8600]

Finally Someone mentions Falkenberg’s Legion and Hammer’s Slammers

[@SlappinDaHoe]

Yeah, add Hammer's Slammers to the list if you haven't already!

[@kongilian]

Mercenaries provide us with beautiful Sabaton songs about sacking Rome and defending the Pope

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

And both sides are mercs at the same time...how cool is that?

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

Also the many badass Merc companies in BattleTech, like Wolf's Dragoons, the Eridani Light Horse, the Northwind Highlanders, Kell Hounds... and that's barely naming ANY of the mercs present in the setting. Hell, the best way to experience the setting is to BE a Merc.

[@kyriss12]

@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 No the mercenaries were the ones doing the looting. The defenders were a mostly ceremonial group of 189 swish guardsman. The song he’s referring to is Last Stand.

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

@@kyriss12 Both are mercs. Guard just never changed the employer and had a different job (FAR from ceremonial). In modern age they are more like Vatican army with a twist tbh.

[@KevinWarburton-tv2iy]

The Swiss Guardsmen were Mercenaries. Paid Contractors.

[@williamhare4456]

My first answer I came up with is when designing your sci-fi setting you need to rack your brain just to make the major factions for huge battles and mercenaries are a collection of minor factions that you need flesh out and it’s to much work.

[@codyraugh6599]

Not to mention most sci-fi are central government and one world government. No need for mercs

[@MM22966]

Shout-out to David Drake's Hammer's Slammers: the most elite & ruthless mercenary armored cavalry regiment in space!

[@jaquigreenlees]

and Lois McMaster-Bujold's Vorkosigan Saga's Dendari Free Mercenary Fleet.

[@adrianusnicholas8600]

Falkenberg’s Legion by Jerry Pournelle

[@MM22966]

@@adrianusnicholas8600 Hell yeah! Spartans, return with your shield or upon it!

[@vidfan1701]

Are you familiar with David Drake's "Hammer's Slammer's"? It's a wonderful series about a mercenary group that uses the most high tech tanks imaginable.

[@garereeve117]

I’m a fan of that series. That setting has the proper conditions for mercenaries to thrive: colony worlds where the local governments can’t afford a standing army, and have to choose between either hiring mercenaries or submitting to somebody who DOES hire them… or fighting well trained, well equipped, highly experienced soldiers who do not have to worry about a famine if they burn a thousand acres of wheat to the ground in order to flush out a sniper, and will have left the planet long before anybody can start looking for any mass graves in their areas that they were hired to pacify.

[@a_Minion_of_Soros]

Black Rock, the investment firm has really branched out lately!

[@SilverCrescent-lo6qw]

In a setting I am writting mercenaries exsist because warmachines are essentially fused to individuals so when your warship/warmachine is too outdated to continue to serve in a nations military they are essentially just released feom service because its inhumane to do anything else. So you can have a Merc fleet of dozens of now outdated military vessels and warmachines that will then contract with corporations, planets, or factions in exchange for logistical support. They may even continue service with their faction of origin as forces in the same way PMC's do.

[@SilverCrescent-lo6qw]

They even move to colonize planets independently and build logistic chains of their own, forming private independant military forces inside their original nation

[@Sorain1]

I can see that being a reason for a return and continued existance of such. That and the old 'deniable asset' reason.

[@SilverCrescent-lo6qw]

@@Sorain1 Honestly they mostly function as anti pirate assets, convoy defense, and patrol forces on less tamed sections of space. But during times of war they are hired and used as true blue mercenaries by various factions. Half the reason Space Japan is so powerful is they hired Space China's Mercenaries to turn on them and aid a third factions fleet in a battle which cost SC most of their fleet and left them open to attacks from all sides thus allowing the three factions bordering them (including space japan) to eat up massive chunks of their territory without any damage to industry.

[@GhostBear3067]

Loving all the Battletech love in the comments and image selections.

[@Daimon-X]

Archeological works showed up that mercenaries existed in Europe, in 13th century BC, during the Bronze Age. It's a very old line of work. Mercs are a double-edged sword, they can be a blessing, or a worst curse. For everyone, who will hire them.

[@robertalaverdov8147]

Like the time Carthage hired mercenaries to fight mercenaries that rebelled when they weren't paid from the last war.

[@HD-mp6yy]

It's the second oldest profession

[@weldonwin]

The first Punic war was basically started by Italian Mercenaries, the Mamertines basically going sideways on the island of Sicily and taking over a whole town, when their previous employers stopped paying them.

[@eddapultstab2078]

Machiavelle actually talked alot about this in various treatises, including the prince. He contrasts different nations and their use of mercenaries and the strengths and issues they have noting that Britain had the best balance because they use mercenaries to support their established professional army and the professional army can keep the the mercs honest enough that they don't worry betrayal constantly. Italy on the otherhand had to rely exclusively on mercenaries throughout all the city states and the numerous fortresses that once dot Italy was more to protect from internal turmoil than outside invaders. Even more problematic is that even the slightest competent mercenary leaders were heavily distrusted and feared and numerous civil wars occurred either because or in spite of a merc leader. The finer point that Machiavelle was trying to convey was not against mercenaries but the over use and over reliance of them.

[@poil8351]

The holy roman empire found that out the hard way in the thirty years war. One of the reasons they had wallenstein assassinated becusse they became concerned about his growing power.

[@bkane573]

Star Wars has some merc groups. Not groups that can win wars, but groups that could sway battles.

[@StevenHouse1980]

In StarWars Legends, I think the only time the Mandalorians run a mercenary armie is later when Boba Fett gets voted in by all of them as the new Mandalor. As he was at the time most well known, respected and feared of all the Mandalorians, he was also the leader of Clan Fett(one of the largest clans) due to all the surviveing clones that had familys both biological children and adopted. Any way Boba as Mandalor had the leadership of the mercenary clans and directed which contracts were in the best long term intrest of the Mandalorian clans after being too scattered across the galexy due to the Empire.

[@Stinger420]

"There will be a substantial reward for the one who finds the Millennium Falcon. You are free to use any methods necessary, but I want them alive."

[@philippschwarz4539]

"No disintegrations!"

[@Stinger420]

@@philippschwarz4539 Heh, heh! Exactly!

[@shanz7758]

Well... Honestly it depends on your definition of mercenary. Because if you think of a mercenary as someone working for a private company that fights your wars for a price, it doesn't exactly apply. But yes, you could argue that bounty hunting is a solitary mercenary work.

[@KevinWarburton-tv2iy]

yes, the bounty hunters are essentially Mercenaries but at the individual/small group level. The bounty Hunter's guild itself though could be seen as if not a PMC as a PSC. As many comments here indicate ...there is a fine line between Private Security Companies & Private Military Companies. There is also a fine line between Mafias/OC/Pirates & Mercenary Groups too.

[@stuartwald2395]

Go with the Slammers! The "good guys", but without any mercy or concern.

[@bennai2]

Personally I have the feeling that in most sciences fiction universes the mercenaries are used for special operation purposes, where you don't need a huge force but rather one who his hard to connect to your government. Like a Delta Squad, Sas or Green Berets for hire

[@darrylhilbig6459]

Forgot at least a couple. David Drake's "Hammer's Slammers" with Alois Hammer and the series that starts with a book called "The Tactics of Mistake". The Dorsai series. Ends with "The Final Encyclopedia". In most settings with Mercs there is usually a central controlling body that takes care of the contracts that they operate under. Try giving them a look and you can see how it can work in a sci-fi setting that removes some of the amoral aspects of your reasons you think they couldn't work. The points you made only apply to those settings as that is the way they have been set up.

[@MM22966]

Oh, and the "Prince of Sparta/Falkenberg's Legion" books!

[@pdallen8355]

Glad someone mentioned the Dorsai!

[@ServantOfOdin]

Well, in Star Trek, we know of some mercenaries from various races. Quark thought about hiring mercenaries to bust his brother out of prison (Nausicaans), Miles O'Brien once won Tongo against a a Romulan Mercenary, Chakotays crew consisted of Malcontents, Outlaws and Mercenaries, the Trill Verad hired two Klingon mercenaries to take the Dax symbiont, and when Ishka was captured, Rom wanted to hire Nausicaan, Breen or Klingon mercenaries to rescue their mother. And then there is the Ferengi Leck, an "Eliminator" (yes, technically an assassin, but still). He was not interested in money, only in fighting, so technically that doesn't count as mercenary, but he offered his services to anyone in need of a professional and his preferred skills were quite different from other Ferengi. /Edit: Edited out some spelling-errors

[@ala5530]

I'd also throw in the Orion Syndicate, being formed of smugglers, slavers, pirates and mercenaries.

[@eddapultstab2078]

I think science insanity was talking about legitimate mercenary armies with top of the line equipment and logistics as well as a clear doctrine. It's unique to battletech as the unique mix of a never ending war along with techno feudalism creates a special atmosphere that allows things the wolf's dragoons, which had like 6 or 7 full mech regiments on paper and probably dozens more of various infantry, vehicle and reserve regiments to support that pyramid cap. Even in star wars it would be hard to find a mercenary army/fleet that can go toe to toe with any periods factions fleets and not be a minor nation, mandalore is a nation by the way. Same thing with star trek, only the ferengi could and willingly supply ships and hardware to independents, however ferengi will try to monopolize it and force mercenaries to be their employees defeating the purpose. It is a fine needle to thread and it needs a good explanation.

[@ServantOfOdin]

@@eddapultstab2078 True, but they way SI said it made it sound like SI assumed there were no mercenaries whatsoever in Star Trek, which is plainly not correct. They may not be as organised as in BattleTech, or as big and well equipped, but mercenaries are still mercenaries.

[@eddapultstab2078]

@@ServantOfOdin I would consider those as hired guns or PMCs. While mercenaries is a broad term but there are a few merc in history that mercenaries had both military prowess and political clout. Gaelic mercenaries in bc times were some of the most feared and respected warriors for hire in their time, the galatians were especially notable because for a time they were more trusted in guarding an Egyptian Pharoahs palace over the locals. Swiss mercenaries were especially influential as if one side hired them the other needed to hire their competitors or face certain doom in a battle. Then theirs the conditorie that once populated Italys battle fields and politics. They varied in numbers, quality, and reputation but they were a major fixture and institution in regional politics, some were granted fiefs and castles in lieu of payment. One famous mercenary general, who's name I forgot how to pronounced but translated as "honey cat" if remember right, has a really awesome horse riding monument somewhere. All these mercenary groups have in common is that they are well established, they have a long and notably successful history of warriors and that they are more than a mere hand full of men and have reputations as valuable as the cost of their services, like chances are if things go south it's probably not their fault and is the only thing keeping them worse.

[@ServantOfOdin]

@@eddapultstab2078 Fair points, but not all mercenaries work in groups. Some not even work as teams, prefer to work alone. You can call them hired guns or whatever you like, but by definition, that still qualifies as mercenary work. Nowhere in any definition does it require mercenaries to be groups, especially organised or well-qeuipped ones.

[@lichlord9838]

"Mandalorians aren't Mercs" You know some of them are large, organized military units for hire right? They aren't all Boba Fett clones (no pun intended)

[@barrybend7189]

The Hizari in Star Trek Voyager are mercenaries. In Star Trek Online you had to hire them to fight the Vaaduar. They are a delta Quadrant force as it's the only area with the instability necessary for mercs.

[@clintcarpentier2424]

It's not entirely impossible to have mercs in your story. It's more a matter of what you actually call them. Bandits - Any number of reasons people turn to banditry. Among the top you can find retired soldiers, dishonorably discharged soldiers, AWOL soldiers, or even soldiers in disguise. "Shit, our scouting party has been cornered, men, act like bandits!" "Sir, the platoon we sent to the front, were mugged on the way, they're in rough shape." "Is that the best shit story you could feed me?!" Brigands - Bandits in large enough numbers to choke trade routes. Pirates - See Bandits above. Privateers - Ship Captains with letters of mark by their nation to act like pirates against enemy commerce. Now, David Weber's Honorverse shows another type of merc. Definition, by definition, is definition. Small allied nations need skilled military personnel to train their military's upper echelons. Manticore's military their willing personnel on half-pay (semi-retirement) and promise to keep rank advancement on time. These troops are then put on the pay-role of the allied nation, as what they figure is appropriate rank with advancements and honors for a number of years. Sometimes these troops even come with hardware; whether this hardware is old-tech or cutting-edge is dependent on personnel contribution (to the war at hand) and general resource availability. Though they will hand out ships in spades, none of them are Capital Ships. They may send Capital Ships to your space, but they are not being loaned to you. If you want Capital Ships, you have to build or buy them yourself, but that comes with it's own caveat; you need the personnel, skill and infrastructure to operate them. Sometimes it's easier just to provide occupying forces. These can also be called mercs; highly dependent on trust.

[@dparnass]

The Traveller RPG has mercenaries, but they were mainly at border worlds such as in the Spinward Marches

[@ralvin5763]

Cheers for this. Was just writing a Traveler RPG campaign and realizing a lot of the things that you mentioned, especially how certain specific conditions need to be around for mercenaries to "logically" fit in the setting.

[@iainbaker6916]

Another example of mercs: Kiith Soban from Homeworld.

[@minorityofthought1306]

"Wherever there is a Mercenary there is strife and chaos." - Memoirs of General Andross Mcoy.

[@sirhenry9313]

Before the video: Space is big. I would think there would be a HUGE demand for Mercs to raid shipping lanes/planets etc of nearby systems. Think Orian Syndicate of Star Trek, or Bounty Hunters/Mandolorians of Star Wars. Pirates and mercenaries working for pay in the vastness of space seems almost the same as old seafaring Pirates and mercenaries 🤔

[@hakonsgaming535]

Actually there are mercenaries in Star Trek (yes even by you're unbelievably narrow grammatically unusable definition). I can Cite at least two. First off the Ferrangi DEFINITELY have mercenaries, and sometimes operate as such. The Ferangi Marauder which is their main ship has been shown to be technologically on par with the largest federation ships as well as having similar size and capabilities. Note that such ships are independently operated and the Ferrangi don't really have a true central government, we see them operating as independent privateers and threatening federation ships in a military capacity multiple times in TNG. There are also the Lethians, who are a telepathic species known to hire out as fighters to other species including the klingons as well as multi species criminal organizations. We only really get glimpses of the alpha and beta quadrants outside the big three powers in TNG but there are definitely a lot of systems and worlds outside the major powers and we've seen real mercs operating on multiple occasions which makes a good deal of sense given how lesser powers like the cardassians breen and others are known to be belligerent but not big enough to be a problem for the likes of the Klingons romulans or federation.

[@nibblitman]

I think Comstar and the MRB/MRBC setup and the power they wield in the Battletech setting make Mercs much more viable, is this realistic? I’m not sure but it sure is fun.

[@stevenclark2188]

Also the Dragoons and Outreach.

[@CharlesWarrington]

It is when you think of the neofeudalism there are plenty of Counts/Dukes and Corporations that don't want to risk their own men (or recall them from their duties oppressing peasants/workers) but have enough money to hire some mercs to handle a problem nearby. Plus you can capture some of that value back if you gracefully 'give' them some shore leave on your world while waiting for their chartered Jumpship that will arrive 'any day now.'

[@ltcinsane]

Mercenaries become a lot more viable when there is kind of built in infastructure/institutions in the form of the MRB/MRBC that kind of makes them legitimate

[@h.s.lafever3277]

check out the Hammers Slammers book series by David Drake...

[@dajona7860]

Comstar has the benefit of having a mostly unchallenged monopoly on interstellar communications. This gives them disproportionate power, since if they blacklist a group, that group is hosed. If the phone company can turn off all communications in a region, or deny individual customers service, then people listen when they say not to give a Merc group any business. At least until their reputation took a beating and the Mercs all went "Screw this, we'll create our own regulatory board." The new organization didn't have the political and economic influence to strong-arm customers into black-listing a rogue group, but they *did* have lots of mercenaries who would be happy to take a contract from an aggrieved party, or even the organization itself, to eliminate said rogues.

[@breembo]

I mean blackwater and wagner group are two examples of state sponsered mercenary groups. A way for states to wage illegal wars. Keep official casualty statistics low. Places to try out new weapons or dump old gear unto. Used to train allied states or occupied govts. Used to cheaply bulk up a military's support and logistics train (since you arent paying to train them or give them benefits). Also they are highly desirable for rich third world nations who lack a competent military heritage and/or are plagued with corruption/nepotism issues. Better to hire external professionals then rely on your own shit army. Also merc bodyguards are probably one of the better represented uses in history (when political assasination from your own general/ a coup risk too high to give an army), hire the guys who have no ties to the local politics. So i think the video missed quite a few legit uses for them in the future. In starwars for example they would be more akin to the corporate sector security forces. Like corellia, kuat and other powerful entities had their own fleets to protect their assets outside of the government forces. Lets not even discuss that mercenary groups are typically a byproduct of periods of extended conflict. Lots of young men with combat experience and not much else wandering around the countryside turning to banditry was a common result. Better to have mercenary groups put them to use in a more easily accountable organization. The bulk of PMCs today are staffed by former soldiers. Today we also see former soldiers joining up in independent expeditionary battalions like in ukraine, where nato can not send its own soldiers but can turn a blind eye to foreigners joining the ukrainian army. Sort of like how the french foreign legion was massively bulked up by former german soldiers post ww2.

[@gmradio2436]

The three Star Wars examples you gave are technically governmental entities. They serve directly under their sovereign state. Sabooth squadron might be a better example.

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

International legion isn't mercs, though. they're officially part of the Ukrainian Armed forces as foreign Auxiliaries. Wagner is, because they were solely there for the paycheck. IL are there because they feel Ukraine's continued existence is a cause worth risking their lives for.

[@DarkVeghetta]

Mercs need the right mix of instability and brush-wars to flourish. Lower barrier to entry certainly helps, but old military equipment can also serve their needs when starting out. That said, SC.I played with the definition a bit too much in order to support his argument for my liking. I fail to see a convincing reason to be so restrictive, beyond artificially reducing the number of examples that qualify. Much like national armies, there are many different types of mercenaries and not all of them have the same goals, scale, or tactics. This is why PMCs do qualify, just as a different kind of merc. Same goes for mainly ideologically motivated outfits, which do exist in real life (the Swiss Guard come to mind) and media (Battletech has the Eridani Light Horse, as another comment pointed out). Matter of fact, it's pretty easy to disqualify just about any outfit from being 'true mercenaries' by adding some slight stipulations that seem common enough to make sense. For example, Wagner could easily be disqualified as a 'proper' merc outfit on the grounds that most if not all of its combatants come from the same nation-state as their employer, meaning that there's a solid basis for considering them a part of Russia's national army, just one that has a different legal status and has/had some built-in diplomatic deniability - arguable this is how they now function, without their original leader. This doesn't have to be difficult. Do you fight/kill as a team/unit/army for personal gain while being expendable to your ultimate employers, which are some flavor of local government/warlord/moneybags but you aren't part of their normal military structure? If so, congratulations, you're a merc, a soldier of fortune, a gun for hire. What sort of mercenary is a separate and more in-depth question, but all of them have at least this much in common.

[@AORaiMechWork]

"It just a job 621 All of it" Greatest dad in Armored core

[@abeelvago]

Mechwarrior (Battletech universe) fans: boy have I got some news for you buddy

[@randybasel3798]

Another more recent example of proper mercenaries would be Executive Outcomes from South Africa.

[@danielnoahalie9186]

FINALLY someone remembers them!!!

[@KevinWarburton-tv2iy]

Sandline as well.

[@craytexbuc5648]

I feel like in legends post endor galaxy Mercs could have popped up. Lots of chaos, lots of weaopons, and a lot of different groups that want one another dead.

[@CharlesWarrington]

Agreed, I kind of like the Mandalorian and Bad Batch for exploring that time from a street level perspective

[@Mr.Beauregarde]

The problem is, theres no 1 man force multipliers. In a setting where planetary forces can be assembled, and capital ships are measured in miles, a mercenary company the size of China couldn't provide a measurable advantage them all manning/supporting/piloting a space fleet of vehicles. It works in battletech not just because mechs exist, but because they're difficult to make, maintain, and deliver to the various and sundry battlefields. The barrier to entry is any 4 mechs and a single dropship

[@craytexbuc5648]

@@Mr.Beauregarde very true.

[@gmradio2436]

The issue post Endor is scale. The groups that can organizeand finance a planetary level threat is limited.

[@shadowslayer205]

There are a handful of named mercenary groups in Star Wars Legends, one of which I remember even worked for the rebellion at one point. Indiviuals and small groups of bounty hunters and assassins are also a common sight in Star Wars, being almost as ubiquitous as mercenaries in Battletech and used by many factions.

[@Crazael]

I personally could see Klingons going out and being mercenaries and hired guns. And I could see their Empire using them as auxiliaries during warfare to help bolster their fleet and army numbers.

[@KevinWarburton-tv2iy]

The empire is at Peace but the Martial Spirit must be retained. Nothing more perfect for that than sending state-Sponsored Mercenaries to go & and help out Allies, Client-States, stabilise unfavourable situations as well as engage in some destabilisation where necessary i.e. Coups. As well as serving interests abroad it also serves interests at home as it's good way of getting/keeping Veterans & surplus young male potential troublemakers out of your hair.

[@acegear]

funding is the more reasons they dont exist and pay, its more profitable to go pirate

[@gasmonkey1000]

Id recommend Farscape's Peacekeepers. While they de-facto rule entire chunks of the galaxy theyre a mix of Mamluks and Italian Condotierre, with a dash of Norman, in space. They generally prefer being invited and then becoming kingmakers. (Also watch Farscape if you haven't, beautifullu trippy show)

[@nobodyherepal3292]

5:58 believe it or not, Wager actually had mi-24 gunship and Su-25 jet crews on its payroll.

[@KevinWarburton-tv2iy]

Yeah, but the tanks, planes, helicopters were provided by Russia & payroll was Russian State so not much divorce between State & "Mercenary" there.

[@dragonshair]

Enjoyed the video, but you missed two major mercenary groups from SF literature. The Dorsai books involve a planet who supplies nothing but mercenaries for other planets. Also, the Sardukar from the Dune books. While not strictly mercenaries by your definition in this series, very close to it and definitely worth a mention.

[@dbell1016]

This I have to respond to. Everything you said MIGHT be true of scifi film and tv BUT you've left out print science fiction. There are two famous military science fiction series that deal almost exclusively with mercenary armies. First there's " Hammer's Slammers " by David Drake. David Drake was an intelligence officer assigned to support an armored unit during the vietnam war, and he came back from the war with PTSD. As a sort of self therapy, he wrote the Hammer's Slammers series. It's gritty, emmersive, and sometimes shocking and some of the battle scenes in the book came from actual battles he witnessed or fought in. The series includes the anthology "Hammer's Slammers" , "At Any Price" , "Paying The Piper" , " Rolling Hot " and several others. Actual officers at the pentagon have read the series since it deals realistically with war in the future. The other series that comes to mind is " The Mercenary " by Jerry Pournelle. ( can't get more direct than that ) When he wrote that book and the further adventures of John Christian Falkenburg , He was invited to speak at the pentagon because he deals with the subject of a mercenary's dream of a long war with little to no fighting. ( although when there is fighting its dramatic and intense ) He also deals with insurgency and ending or withdrawl from the conflict. Both of these series are famous in the annals of print science fiction, so I was surprised by the title of this video. ( What is he talking about, is this only click bait ? ) After seeing the video I see you were talking only about video and games. I would strenuously recommend you look up either of these series ( Hammer's Slammers is my favorite of the two ) . You will be richly rewarded by very good reads.

[@dragonturtle2703]

I think your definition of merc is a bit narrow. The way I see it, any soldier for hire is a mercenary. This can blur the line between them and other things like bounty hunters or hit men, but the key is it being a war, or other sorts of distinctly military stuff.

[@silent0089]

Kiith Soban (Homeworld) are essentially mercenaries (a clan of mercenaries) and they werent violent like any mercenaries and more acting like PMCs to other Kiiths

[@somthingbrutal]

if you are looking for mercenary scifi check out David Drake's Hammer's Slammers series of stories and novels

[@MasterGhostf]

As societies develop and industrialize, the state needs to become larger to manage all these parts; this makes the necessity of organizing the various armies into a cohesive whole. We saw this during the 1600-1800's. Mercenary armies fell out of fashion as industrialization, agriculture revolution all happened. Workers in Europe could produce more food and more things, meaning more laborers were available for manpower. Its why France was so dominant, they mass recruited the majority of their population, Firearms reduced the martial skill needed, so professional troops were easier to train and maintain, this meant that mercenaries who practiced year-round for their contract, were competing against cheaper, well equiped, and equally skilled soldiers

[@dwalk9674]

You never touched on one of the best book series about mercenaries in SCI FI, Hammer's Slammers. Mercenaries will always be around in one shape or another. Its the world second oldest profession. We don't call them Mercenaries today as its a bad touch term. That is why they are call "Private Military Contractors". As for not being able to get equipment. Governments can't wait to sell their older and surplus equipment. Not to mention the many arms dealers that exist, which are usually government backed. I really don't feel this was researched as well.

[@MikhaelHausgeist]

There are several definition of "mercenaries". I think it is important because some definitions exist and prosper (like Bobba Fet) and some really don't. Basically bodyguard are also some form of mercenaries.

[@sohrabroozbahani4700]

In the universe i developed Humanses are basically nation states for hire, they have their own mothership "City" occasionally even alliances of them, their own full fledged fleets (military and civilian) planet side and orbital settlements and bases and all, only on small scale, only to provide the city with its minimal get by needs, the main reason was after the long war humanses had so much numbers cloned of themselves, an stupifying amount of war material at hand and a lot of first hand war experience, the greater powers let humans settle where the wished but every time the colony was developed into substantial profit or unearthed something really valuable they came around with enough political leverage to rob it from under humanses feet, then humanses fought for it and lost, every time, after a while humanses decided to go with the wiser plan, if you can't beat them join them, so they forgo the entire investing and developing of the colonies and instead hired off themselves to the bigger players to do the stealing part instead, and it paid, in the current time of my universe humans are just that, nation states getting paid in credit and material to fight other people's dirtier wars for them. Mercenary nations... and of course, pretty awesome at it too, cause himanses are supreme ya'll...

[@WickedPrince3D]

In Battletech many/most of the mercenary companies started out as official military in one of the great houses. After feeling like they'd been betrayed by their leaders they went rogue and hired themselves out to anyone that would pay enough to keep them going. I'd suspect that other mercenary companies started off as several smaller groups that banded together to get better jobs. Otherwise yes, SF mercs would need to be initially and probably consistently funded by somebody with a lot of money to spend on expensive future weaponry that they'd need to be competitive with other militaries; and especially if major battles are fought in space with ships; it's hard for a group of friends who can't find a stable job to scrape together the funds to buy a small fleet of warships that would be competitive in battle; and crew them.

[@KevinWarburton-tv2iy]

Scenario ...a civil war Remnants of the defeated forces flee with their remaining mobile Assets, maybe they find themselves an off the beaten track world to set up base. Maybe they have a bunch of Civilian Ships/Refugees with them including factory ships. They vow to retake their home planet one day but in order to build their strength & gain new citizens for their free world they go on a mission to recruit more soldiers. How's a good way to make money to pay for people's work, pay for new gear for new recruits etc? 1) Engage in some smuggling between certain Systems 2) Engage in some arms dealing ...maybe you sell an Assault hover-Tank Tank so you can buy two or three battlemechs 3) engage in Piracy 4a) Set up as a Private Security Company 4b) set up as a PMC. Use some of your funds gained to invest in Shipyards, Industrial Orbitals both at your new world & in other systems.

[@WickedPrince3D]

@@KevinWarburton-tv2iy Note that I said Many/Most, not ALL. Yes, there are a great variety of other reasons for going Merc. But from what I have read of B'tech merc history what I originally said is correct for most of the main merc companies I'm aware of. With the big obvious exception being the Wolf Dragoons.

[@warhawke223]

The European Anti-Mercenary bias is very clear here. First, Mercenaries were often specialists, Sappers and Artillerists being to two most predominant examples but later Musketeers and riflemen joined. In these cases, while larger states could afford their own, while smaller states lacked the specialized training, knowledge and equipment.The biggest factor in the demise of the Mercenary was that the smaller states of Europe were subsumed into larger nations. Smaller states who had lacked the Financial, Industrial and manpower resources often hired mercenaries make up these shortfalls and often hired out their own subjects as mercenaries to larger states. Hesse is probably the most well known example of the latter as The Landgrave Frederick II who contracted with the British to provide soldiers for both the American revolution and the Irish Rebellion of 1798, Hessian forces were organized, trained and equipped by Hesse and loaned as units to supplement British forces. Hessian units were known to be well trained and highly disciplined units though considered somewhat inferior to the British Regulars. Hesse did this in order to fund their own military expansion and other state expenditures. In a Sci-fi context, nations or planets who lack the industrial base and/or material resources would see mercenaries both as a means of generating revenue (off-planet credit) and a way to develop indigenous military capability. Planets having the resource base but lacking advanced technology would see them as a way of supplementing conventional forces with advanced technological capabilities. Advanced states would likely see such units as a way of maintaining military superiority or high-tech industries in weapons development and production while transferring the costs to others. Likewise, states with moral or other constraints on the use of force might see lesser societies (or races) as acceptable surrogates. The possibility of Corporations using mercenaries to engage other corporations, national or planetary governments or to obtain and exploit resources is just as likely in this context as well. I recommend some good books and series in this vein; Jerry Pournelle, CoDominium series, Janissaries series Gordon R. Dickson, Childe Cycle (the Dorsai Novels in particular) David Drake, The Hammerverse Lois McMaster Bujold, The Vorkosigan Saga John Dalmas, Regiment series John Ringo, The Legacy of the Aldenata series Allen Cole and Chris Bunch, The Sten Chronicles Andre Norton, Central Control series Walter Jon Williams, Voice of the Whirlwind C. J. Cherryh, The Faded Sun series, The Company Wars series

[@mathewkelly9968]

BattleTech enters the chat ..... "Huh"

[@clarkreamer4560]

David Drake's Hammer's Slammers and Jerry Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion stories both explore and revolve around SciFi mercenaries but are 35+ years old. The authors who were impacted by Vietnam had a pretty grim view.

[@MM22966]

I always found them good reading, because they offered insight into just how messy and complicated insurgencies or governments on the fringes are; how corruption effects things, how military realities on the ground do no reflect the cleaned-up & simplified narratives used by politicians and reporters, how different ethnic or national viewpoints create wildly different reactions to the same situations, and so forth.

[@SageofStars]

This varies by setting, and a lot of that variance is caused by speed and ability to patrol your own space. If the central government is in full control, you won't see mercs much, since they wouldn't really be necessary. They'd be more like private security concerns in Star Trek. Meanwhile, you have Schlock Mercenary, the greatest Scifi Comeday Space Opera Webcomic, which, given the title, is all about these.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

Battletech and surprisingly Mass Effect do mercs in space well. When your nation is so big you can't realistically cover all of your own territory, mercenaries make up the difference. Likewise in all the wild and untamed parts of the map where governmental mandates are more of a suggestion and the idea that the army is going to be there to save you isn't likely, mercs can and will do that jobs....for a price. Provided they aren't the same groups you'd want protection from.

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

That and BattleTech Mercs can be EXTREMELY fucking skilled, and make your own units look like idiots. You want the job done halfassed and look patriotic? Or do you want the job done PROPERLY and professionally. Probably the latter, and you'll pay for the mercs.

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

I've always been interested in the sci-fi versions of mercenaries and bounty hunters!

[@BelRigh]

There is an interesting book setting (90s pulp) called the "Dirigent Mercenary Corps"... This was a verse with ONE merc group, the titular one ... LSS the planet had been developed and was a University/ r&d centered planet... Long ago they were invaded and the Brains turned their plowshares into swords and now hire out troops from company level and above to any of the hundreds of human planets in the Verse... For internal Conflicts, one planet is threatening it's agricultural neighbor... Etc... however they are highly trained and under full, strict military discipline... It's sheer pulp, but such a cool series.

[@gorasul12]

On the "why would you employ them?" Well if I dont my enemies will 😆

[@truetheternal2314]

There is no less then 10 mercenary groups fighting in Ukraine on both sides. A mercenary group does not have to be a full army. Alot of times they are free-lance fighters or could be specialized forces fulfilling a rule. the definition of mercenary is: one that serves merely for wages. It is misleading to imply that numbers too low to be a full army is not mercenaries. And mercenaries have been around for thousands of years with one of the oldest recorded being in 401BCE where 10,000 mercenaries were hired on just one side. Has for sci-fi settings there are thousands of examples of them being used from Star Wars to Hammer's slammers. Warhammer, battle tech, etc... It really depends on the nature of the setting and the cost of space travel.

[@luscinius2933]

I disagree on Mass Effect, as we seen in ME2 at least Blue Suns have their own planets and plants, IIRC recruitment mission for Okir mentions a Blue Suns cruiser, they have ships, guns an means to produce them. So does the Eclipse. Heck, even Blood Pack has some means of weapon production. And I gurantee you, that Batarian Hegemony use all those "pirates" to do they dirty shit for them.

[@masterzoroark6664]

Basically, for merc bands to form you need a certain brand of instability and near total war state of things, otherwise you have something like Private Military Contractors or hired hitmen (let alone just thugs). In relatively stable settings people are way too attached to one or the other ideology to form something a big band that doesn't care for whoom they work for- hell even places like 40K aren't that unstable to have mercs, Imperium and Eldari are cohearent enough plus Imperial creed distains disenters and aliens, Tau are basucally unifying everything, even the hired races, under one ideology, Chaos too- but the ideology is the god you pray to and if you try to work for everyone you are turned to soup or something worse, and Nekrons and Tyranids fundamentaly can't have disenters or side-hopping bastards- Nids are a hive mind and standard Nekrons basically run on programming which they can't defy

[@blindoutlaw]

Landsknecht founded by the Holy Roman Empire…… also sacked Roman as they were pissed off at the Pope

[@ash470]

Great Video, it was so good it kind of makes me want a whole series of videos looking into other well used tropes like Space Piracy, Mega Corporations, Trade or Manufacturing Guilds, etc...

[@thelordofcringe]

Military contractors are absolutely going to be EVERYWHERE in a realistic sci-fi. Much as today where we prefer contractors to staff remote refueling outposts, a space military isn't going to stick their own assets 6 months travel into the kuiper belt for a minor task. Mercenaries as shock troops is unlikely. They're never going to be better than constant training that the military will focus on. But as garrisons, it's highly likely. Why would you put 300 men on an asteroid 4 months from earth just to protect a few fuel depots? That's 300 men you could be training to be shock troops or starship crew. They'll be contractors. They'll likely be ex military and they'll put up a decent defense, but that's about it.

[@poil8351]

I would kind of also mention the condottieri who were basically Italian mercenaries in the late medieval period. Also they were often slightly unique because some of the groups were also basically bankers and as a result had bucket loads of cash avaliable.

[@EvelynNdenial]

you did miss one type of merc. the state backed mercenaries. mercs that might as well be part of the standing army of an independent nation but because that nation isn't a major player and wants to stay neutral but still wants to leverage its military it lends that military out as mercs to other warring nations. they'd have all the training and equipment of a proper army. an example would be the swiss mercenaries. sponsored by the swiss confederacy so long as they always return immediately to defend Switzerland if they're attacked.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Do be fair, Putin didn’t take very long to put down Prig. He knew full well that it was a “devil’s bargain” and that Wagnar was no longer the low profile “deniable” asset they had been. So they just folded them into the proper military using their experience which was what triggered the mutiny in the first place. Prigossian was going to lose his private army.

[@markc1548]

Academi (Blackwater) = USA, Erinys = England Olive group = England Triple canopy = Latin America There are literally dozens of long-term mercenary groups on the planet today, and they range in ethics. But the point is if they work for and under regulation from the US and England among many other countries today. In a fictional galaxy with fewer regulations and larger territories with zero laws, they would thrive as a means of filling the vacuum of a non-standard law enforcement or standing military.

[@MM22966]

You make a good point. I was somewhat put off by SI's harping on "they're all monsters" narrative. I'd throw in Executive Outcomes op in Sierra Leone - they stopped a rebel group that was literally going around chopping people's arms off.

[@cp1cupcake]

I think most of the modern merc groups are either have a more defensive (security vs offense) or a glorified cat's paws for when a country does not want to get openly involved.

[@MM22966]

@@cp1cupcake True. There is a strong international (UN, 1st world governments, etc) vibe against moving toward real combat power among mercs. You can't topple serious governments with an assault rifle or some heavy machineguns. You can with thousands of men and tanks, etc. (Wagner being a recent case study of what NOT to do). Even Executive Outcomes was forced out of business because they were TOO good at what they did (The UN forced the Sierra Leone government to tear of the contract in favor of UN peacekeepers). And one of the forwards of Hammer's Slammers' books warned against the devolving cycle of outsourcing your violence to strangers, and the spiral of debt/instability/violence it causes.

[@Kepora1]

"Why are mercenary armies are so rare in Sci-Fi?" Bruh, Battletech literally exists

[@gmradio2436]

This comment is funny. Nice bait.

[@Kepora1]

@@gmradio2436 how is it bait in any way, shape, or form?

[@gmradio2436]

@@Kepora1 I am giving you more credit than you earned apparently. I was hoping you were just trying to be clever. Now I have to ask if you watched the video fully. Sorry, I overestimated your comment.

[@Kepora1]

@@gmradio2436 nah. Their videos have kinda gone to shit so I really didn't bother watching. The point of the video is a nonstarter anyways because mercs are pretty common in sci-fi.

[@gmradio2436]

@@Kepora1 Quality aside, you keep putting you foot in your mouth. The video is about Mercenary ARMIES. A quarter of the video is about Battletech specifically.

[@biogeniccolour2155]

Id love to see this channel cover Lancer, as it's a mech game with Merc companies varying from traditional Merc armies(Mirror smoke) to glorified Frist responders that cosplay as Arthurian Knights. (albatross) Plus the only alien race in the setting made humanity invent the combat doctrine of "nuke it from orbit, napalm their forests and boil their oceans and then nuke it again because I think something moved"

[@trainknut]

16:20 "Most of the time fighting is happening, it's titanic empires slugging it out across dozens or hundreds of star systems" ... *_WHAT_* The fuck are you talking about? out of 11 Star Wars movies, we have seen peer-on-peer conflict a grand total of THREE times. The VERY end of Attack of the Clones Pretty much all of Revenge of the Sith and The Battle of Endor in Episode 6. Literally every other time we see combat in Star Wars it's asymmetrical guerilla warfare... Which is literally all of the other movies. It's written into the lore that wars and conflict are(ironically for the name) actually exceedingly rare in the Star Wars universe, Star Trek has far more actual conflicts and much more brutal ones at that, but so much of it happens off-screen we get the opposite impression, Star Trek becomes the intellectual show for hippies, while Star Wars is the action show about punching your problems in the dick... Yet in-universe the factions of Trek are _constantly_ committing brutal atrocities and acting like it's just a regular Tuesday, even the Federation renders entire planets uninhabitable just for political leverage and barely even flinches at the decision... and these were supposed to be the wisest and brightest minds in the whole starfleet doing it. Star Wars has a whole trilogy dedicated to the complex inner workings of the political systems that are designed to prevent war, and how such systems can fall apart and be broken down one by one in difficult times. And how ten thousand years of peace can turn into half a century of war at the snap of a finger. But you all thought that was dumb and boring... so now we get more rebellion stuff forever and ever. Which admittedly is also interesting and sometimes done quite well, but not very often, not as much as the prequel era in my opinion. (when I say prequel era in this case, I'm referring to 1999-2012, not 43-19BBY)

[@ondrejdurdis5374]

You completly ignored the most useful aspect of mercenaries nowadays and probably in the future as well. That is when you want to do something pretty moraly ambiguous you can use them. And when its time for questions truthfully say: "No, our military never did such a thing."

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Not to mention the Condotieri of Renaissance Italy

[@spamhonx56]

I think the reliance on scale to define mercenaries may have been a little over emphasised here. Mass effect's mercenary organisations, for example. I think they are absolutely large enough to be considered an army for hire, even if they're usually deployed in double digit numbers. Their lack of a navy would be akin to complaining that Landsknechts didn't have any warships or that battletech's mercenaries lack anything bigger than fighters for space combat, if they have even that.

[@ashtiboy]

meanwhile with battltech the mecranrys even got a offical bueru bulltaion bords contract sistem across all of human space. heck in battletech even the clans even use them too if they want too.

[@huntermad5668]

Like a third of them are actually House irregular through... It also reflect the origin of the mercs as they were originally House units disbanded after the Star League rise. They needed to do something about million of soldiers suddenly out of jobs

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

@@huntermad5668 it's actually significantly less at this point. Most COMPETENT Merc Units in BattleTech were former SLDF or House units. But Merc Companies in BattleTech are a dime a dozen. Any idiot who can afford a lance can be a merc. Not a good one. But one nonetheless.

[@spacecorpse3212]

1:14 pmcs and mercs are interchangeable as the skillset and person to any of those two professions is the same just depends on how morally bankrupt someone is and pmc's are already deep in the grey zone

[@darykeng]

Yeah, just how "formal" and "civilized" they try to appear while being the same

[@Yacovo]

Africa has seen a lot of deployments and contracts for PMCs in the 2000s up to the 2020s. It has gotten to the point that serious discussion on legislation for tougher regulations limiting their use. Thanks for the video.

[@Paul-cu9lu]

It really comes down to the scale of the sci-fi setting. A universe in which the core parts of the civilizations are peaceful / stable would have no need of mercenaries. Where mercs could really shine would be the frontier areas, far away from the seats of power. Or further still in uncharted space where mercenaries would act as security on expeditions into the unknown.

[@urbypilot2136]

Even in WH40K, where some would say is a shitty enough setting to have the requirements outlined in the video for merc companies to exist, doesn't have them. Because the IoM for example would rather use conscription and servitors than hire out mercenaries, as the populace is practically self-sustaining. Even the gangs in Necromunda would never be able to be become mercenaries, because the IG can simply have more conscripts than the hive gangs can muster.

[@readermike8355]

You completely forgot the Orion Syndicate and the Ferengi from Star Trek. They would totally use mercenary armies.

[@Dreamfox-df6bg]

What is the difference between an Orion/Ferengi merchant and an Orion/Ferengi pirate? If you are armed, it's a merchant. Who would hire them against who without getting the greater nations involved? And they mentioned what would happen to mercenaries when that happens. Starfleet has a technological advantage mercenaries could not overcome, but accepts a surrender. Klingons would thank them for target practice. The Romulans and Cardassians might take prisoners and give them either to their secret service or their 'justice' system. Even if mercenaries have the firepower to overpower a smaller ship from these nations, each or them would send out a force to squash them. Don't confuse mercenaries with pirates, which operate completely differently and do exist in Star Trek. But mercenaries as a meaningful force? No.

[@Sherudons]

Annoys me they usually are shown as bumbling incompetents too over professional military units, barely ranking around the skills of militia, you would expect outfits to form out of washout or redundant military and police forces, mostly trained and somewhat disciplined. Main reason I like the battle tech ones, bumbling incompetents get destroyed to a man fairly quickly, and established ones really are good. Our history ones though tended to be second sons striking out on their own or men trying to elevate themselves, hell mercenaries still exist to this day or "PMC's", thing is a mercenary band who simply ran or turned tended to not be hired again and disbanded or dismembered the ones in charge.. though there were just utter insane people like gotz of the iron hand and simon mann, credit due to count dankula for those stories. So if you intend to go down to just the money, you better win every time and be willing to utterly burn bridges with everyone including your own.

[@o.k.productions5202]

I could see Mercenaries being a thing in the verse (Firefly setting), especially in the more desperate hours of the war. We never see them and I don’t think they have ever been mentioned in the setting so they probably don’t exist by the time of the show at least.

[@lilyeves892]

I mean we see plenty of hired guns in firefly and that's one of the primary things mercs do when there isn't any wars on

[@Inward_Outward]

I love the Battletech imagery used here. "Look at the bright side, kid. You get to keep all the money."

[@sollytom6266]

My meta-answer to the question is that mercenaries are so rare in science fiction because David Drake did it so well with his Hammer's Slammers series.

[@donaldyoungberg9033]

I think your definition of what is a Mercenary is a bit arbitrary then turns back on itself when you label the Hutt having such a force. by definition a mercenary is a soldier who works for a foreign to them military but is not part of it. The landsknights (not going to try to get that right) were a huge force you could call such. You also could call them a bandit army and be just as correct in what they were often. Size of a force to be a mercenary is not a factor. In some settings they can get large while in others they might be just a single guy. The military forces in some eras were small so a small band of soldiers could be just as strong as a local force around. In Battletech when you move the time line back Mercs were much more rare when there was the super state that controlled the most advanced military units. It was only when it broke apart that fragments of the military men had to find new job since they didn't work for the super state anymore. Some joined factions while others tried to keep independent and still others gone full Pirate. This brings me to the point the largest times mercenaries seem to appear is when the larger states have a time of peace or cold war. The soldiers from various factions now have no real job but only have what they did as soldiers as a skill pool to be hired for. They either get security work, semi legal job as mercs, or go illegal as bandits and such.

[@Sinapus]

Schlock Mercenary manages it somehow. Mostly for comedic effect, I suspect. There seems to be well-maintained police and military forces in many systems, but I guess there are places where at least company to regimental sized units can be used. The unit central to the story gets into a lot of different assignments to chase the eternal paycheck. Tagon's Toughs: "Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating New Life-Forms! And Then Kill Them."

[@gmradio2436]

A good setting for mercenaries is Rifts, also known as Science Fantasy on Crack. North America is a good example. Between the Coalition States based in Chicago, the Alien invaders from Atlantis, the Vampire Kingdoms pushing up from Mexico, the Pacos Empires, and Banditos based out of area 51, there is plenty of opportunity, support and demand for the several merc armies running around. There is even one comprised of demons in power armor.