Why are Steel Bikes so popular? Featuring Fairlight Cycles

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Steel is real is a saying that persists in the cycling world but what does it actually mean? To get under the skin of steel, its endearing popularity, the latest developments and where it might be going, I chatted with Fairlight Cycles designer Dom Thomas. We talked about his background of steel frame development, the latest developments that are pushing the Fairlight Cycles frames to the pinnacle of the steel frame world, and why he's so passionate about the use of steel
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[@cecilecorpuz5735]

Great interview! Many years ago I was sitting on a bench in Aosta ITALY and we were looking at an old BENOTTO Delivery van An Old Italian by sitting next to us started to talk about bicycles with us, He said you Americans only wants wall hangers, we Italians ride to ride we build bicycle to race! Building steels frames we put our hearts and soles, blood sweat and tears into each frame that we build! You see it! You feel it! It's a passion for us! Many years ago! As a young kid in San Jose Calif I used to hand out in a shop where there was 2 frame builders, Dale Saso and Jeff Lyon, it was great being able to watch the 2 different styles back to back, Jeff was schooled in the U.K. Dale was self thought who would have surface plate, milling machine and lathe! Jeff on the other hand just blew me away, old school all the way with LARGE PLY-WOOD plotter on the wall with a bunch of holes and plugs to figure out the angles, 2 BENCH VISES! A PILE OF FILES! AND A PILE OF HACK SAWS! NO PO0WER TOOLS! One day he said MOVE ASIDE BARON I NEED TO MAKE SOME $$$! In a days time he built this frame, ready for paint! In fact his frames are still reasonably priced at www.lyonsport.com, A Fillet brazed unfiled L'avecaise frame starts $1095! Way back I bought one of his frames for $300.00 U.S. Several years later some one stopped me and said that's a Jeff Lyon! I said sure thing, he said looks like my size! If it fits would you sell it! I said how much would you pay, he said $ 500,00! Sad to say I sold it! BTW: This post was not by Cecile, it by her other half! www.renaissance-cycle.com

[@markbaker9341]

Great interview thanks. Strael 2 owner here. Best bike I've ever owned, always have a smile on my face when I'm riding it. Its been trouble free and very easy to live with.

[@Gekoman333]

As someone who does literally all my commuting on an old 87 Raleigh Super Course, the last several minutes were music to my ears. It easily tripled my conviction that my next bike will be a Fairlight.

[@nomap2161]

I’m in the US and haven’t seen anything interesting for my style riding from the big companies selling here. After selling my carbon Diverge, I was drawn to the designs of Mason, Fairlight, Kinesis and Ritchey. It seems the British know how to make really great bikes. Ultimately I decided on the Fairlight Faran 2.0 and have to say it’s the best bike I’ve ever owned. It’s also the first steel bike I’ve owned. For me, it’s almost future-proof. I have 700 and 650B wheels that I swap out for different riding preferences. I do wish Fairlight would make a carbon fork for it like the Secan though. The Secan 2.0 wasn’t out when I bought my Faran so opted for it instead to use the fork mounts. I don’t use front racks so I feel it’s a bit wasted in that regard. I may install Ritcheys carbon fork someday as it looks like it’ll have the same trail as the Secan when installed.

[@rickbeckner9906]

David, thanks for the excellent questions and giving Dom the space to give such interesting and informative answers. I learned a lot from both you and Dom from this.

[@philtomlinson8220]

I've always liked Fairlight bikes, and one day hope to own one myself. This interview with Dom has made me like the brand even more. As a cad designer in the bespoke furniture industry, I really identify with the ethos that in order to design a quality product it's vital to have hands on practical experience. Additionally, I very much like Dom's aim of producing quality products that are actually accessible to ordinary people. For me a quality steel frame is a timeless thing, and will always look good. Take a look at even pro level carbon frames from as little as six or seven years ago and they already look pretty dated. Finally, unless you're a racing snake, in full lycra and going pretty fast you can look a bit of a knob on a sculpted carbon frame with deep section rims!

[@bradsanders6954]

What a load of crap, steel is cool, steel is vintage. Roadbikers ride carbon everything, from frame to any other part that can be carbon. People like featherweight bikes. Carbon frames change, because they are evolving, getting lighter better all the time. Steel bike riders need youtube hacks to assure them they are cool, and doing the right thing. Next day the same hack will be pushing some other frame material, he already got his clicks and likes from the steel crowd.

[@philtomlinson8220]

@@bradsanders6954 Yes the Just Ride Bikes channel gets a lot of clicks. What he says must resonate with a lot of people. I don't think cyclists ride steel bikes for any reason other than they like them. Sure if you're racing carbon is the way to go, but for many steel is a good alternative.

[@bradsanders6954]

@@philtomlinson8220 Somewhere, steel is popular with roadbikers. Online there is a possible huge concentration of riders who think steel is it. In real life what is seen are carbon bikes, as light as can be afforded....I have 2 steel bikes and 1 carbon roadbike, 2 carbon mt bikes...modern carbon is way better than 10 year old carbon....everybody wants to imagine they're a racer on roadbikes, most everybody.

[@jimthebikeguy]

There is a lot to be said for the plus effect of having an emotional connection with the bike. Thats the crux of this (no pun intended). On paper, one material may have advantages over another, but a bike you love and are invested in will always feel faster. Especially if it is a little bit special and you built it yourself.

[@KoenMannaerts]

A technologist, an environmentalist, a generalist: Dom Thomas is the 21st century craftsman. Kudos to you man. And to David for recognizing excellence.

[@felixjackson2670]

Interestingly. Been following bike tech. for decades..racing,riding,commuting,touring. Few years ago ditched my Carbon MTB frame and rebuilt onto Stanton Sherpa 853- love it. Then sold my Carbon winter bike frame and bought a 653 Bob Jackson on eBay -love it. Few months ago pulled my Campag Super Record off my Pinarello f8 and on to an Argon 18 Titanium frame (2014!). The only Carbon frame left is my Ibis Gravel Bike!!! Great chat and thanks for your content.

[@paulkruglov7280]

Great interview!! Dom is very passionate about his company and steel. Fairlight makes very nice bikes. Keep up the awesome videos.

[@xaviermelendez2639]

Another engaging and insightful video, nice job David. Yeah, Dom’s passion and deep knowledge are quite keen, kudos for the great work at Genesis on the 953 race frames. Have to say, after riding and racing over the years on numerous bikes since the mid 1980s, steel and titanium are my personal favorite material of choice for road feel and ride quality. A handcrafted steel or Ti frame truly feels alive!

[@saint_piran]

Loved that long-form interview format Dave, and I really like Fairlight's bikes.

[@davidarthur]

👍

[@adriannelson3045]

Intelligent and interesting interview. What a lovely bloke and so articulate about his specialism. Lovely to hear positive and passionate talk about steel frames.

[@jonburnell532]

Great little discussion. Thank you 😊 It's right up there with the one you did with Niel Webb.

[@davidarthur]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ianbauer4703]

Love your channel and its content, thanks for posting about this.

[@nickkent7164]

My 5 year old Strael mk.1 still makes me smile every ride. I've been very fortunate to own many bikes over the years and never kept one this long. This is finally the keeper, oh, and the Secan I have too 😊. Was hoping I'd hear there's an HT MTB in the pipeline 😉

[@rbstretch100]

Fascinating interview. I'm a Secan 1 owner and very tempted by a Strael, if only my garage had the space.

[@shmuelyosef1]

You need to enlarge your garage, or like me, get a steel storage structure (they are way cheaper then your bike) and keep them there locked out of site...

[@julianwinn4502]

A friend of my father just gave me a 1985 Raleigh Quasar. First steel bike I have ridden and I'm amazed at how comfortable it is. It even has tubes that are round at the ends but oval in the centre section to reduce drag - someone was thinking back then!

[@sweepsp8468]

One of the best posts on yt I have a affinity with the name "Fairlight" I owned Fairlight cages ltd and all of your comments on product being the best and customer service rung true with me. If one day I can afford one of your bikes I will be there. I hope you have a good and happy new year.

[@Peter-gn8pj]

This fellow Dom has some really great things to say about design and he says them so thoughtfully and straightforwardly. His advice about making for designers is great (going straight to my architecture students, that one!). I am pondering the purchase of what I consider a high end bicycle, though a luddite anti- elite side of me wants to get away with doing a lot of the same things on a cheapo D4 I rescued from the garbage..I guess I am listening to this to understand why I would make such a conspicuous purchase.

[@mancello]

I have a Secan first edition. One of the most comfortable bikes I've ridden. Aesthetically it's a nice looking bike as well.

[@anthonyharris483]

Ive tried all types of tubing like titanium, carbon, aluminum, magnesium, and steel. For me quality steel tubing just feels the best. Steel tubing from Columbus, Tange, True Temper and Reynolds have some of nicest feel tubing. Titanium is quite nice also but something about the feel of steel that feels more alive. Carbon is dead feeling in comparison has its place in terms of light weight but is disposable if a catastrophic failure should occur. I wouldn't trust carbon over time whereas steel can last several lifetimes if taken care of.

[@brankododig1585]

Only if you look at it, if you ride it in anger and ride it a lot, it will fail due to fatigue or perish in a crash. I have both steel and CF, trust them both really.

[@Abingusus]

Steel weights more so bike has more momentum. Thats all. You can put weights on carbon bike and it will feel like steel bozo

[@warchalify]

Ok, I'm sold. Buying the new Streal 3.0 frameset!

[@markadams8041]

I do believe in the balance that steel has of springiness and shock absorption and stiffness. That and the ability for most places to repair a broken steel frame gives the material the moniker that Steel is Real.

[@Solarsystem50]

I have a 1972 Raleigh Super Course and it rides fantastic.

[@martinflibotte9857]

Great interview. I’m on Fairlight website looking at a Secan 2.5 54T. This is most probably the bike i’ve been looking for: short arms geometry for better comfort, steel but with a lot of r&d behind it, lightweight and attention to details, beautiful finish and simple at the same time. I have a one year carbon gravel bike which that i never got used to, unfortunately. I don’t like the riding position and it’s uncomfortable on long rides. I’ve been looking at steel bikes manufacturers for a while and Fairlight seems to meet all my expectations!

[@bicycleutopia]

fairlight bikes are really nice, very well thought out, and are AFFORDABLE!!!!

[@markowsley4954]

Many years ago I had the original specialized carbon fiber and ended up switching back to a custom steel Waterford Schwinn Paramount. Nothing beats a steel bike to me. I love what Fairlight is doing at a reasonable price point. The Secan is high on my list of new bikes.

[@BeezonToast]

About to find out how real steel really is! I ordered my Strael 3.0 this week with an arrival date 17th July 2023. Very excited.

[@davidarthur]

Nice! Let us know how you get on

[@solitaryrefinement6787]

Steel never went away. It just was out of the spotlight while all the materials of the day came & went. It's a ride-everyday material that you don't have to worry about. I don't think I'll ever buy another carbon bike again. There's a lot to be said for carbon's performance attributes, but I'm not racing...like, ever. Once I returned back to steel (I won't even look at aluminum anymore), there's just no going back to anything else. And I know that whatever steel bike I buy now will be here long after my passing. It's #1 recyclability is that you can ride them forever then someone after you can have a life with them.

[@alasdairworsley4890]

I've 6 steel machines. 3 longstaff trikes. A raleigh randonneur. The 708 frame I built with Harry quinn 33 years ago and a 501 gitane from 1988. All brooks too. 3 paris brest done on steel. 9 super randonneur. A 6.5 hour 100 mile sportive on trike at 50 years old.

[@jamesgeorge8915]

I like the look of the one off flat handlebar faran they built.

[@DanielFNG]

Great content, would love to see more of this type of almost podcast like approach. Not sure if there’s already a cycling podcast focused more on design, philosophy, almost emotional aspects of cycling… but most seem to be racing or product focused (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Anyway, subscribed off this video!

[@davidarthur]

Thanks Daniel - had hoped to do more long form conversational videos like this with designers but the uptake wasn't massive so didn't lean into it as much as I would have liked. Maybe I should just bite the bullet?

[@DanielFNG]

Hmm maybe something you can treat as a passion project and do less regularly? Tricky with podcasts though as you almost need a consistent schedule I imagine to build a separate viewer base. You'd have my view at least!

[@peterahlstedt2043]

Great video. I wish you do a similar video with ENIGMA bikes and their Signature series who are made in England

[@anirudhs9200]

Watching from the US and have not seen any steel road bike that looks like a labor of love, like the Strael 3.0. I'm smitten, but I need to wait till December 2022 for the 105 groupset? Not fair!

[@anthonyharris483]

I guess I'm more a traditionalist with liking the slim look of steel tubing

[@Ben-td4vz]

Got late to the Video, but it was excellent! Thanks for sharing. 👍

[@dinodaniel2237]

Great video ! Didn't Tom Boonen win the green Jersey in one TDF riding a steel Pegoretti frame painted team colours?

[@anthonyharris483]

Those Fairlight bikes look amazing.

[@gclh22]

I have the 2014 Volare 953 and 931 best bikes ever made if you ask me. I have hammered many carbon bike on both of them. Only 953 with 2 cages pedals Garmin mount 6.7 kg

[@gravelpack8536]

Great interview love the cut aways too. Still looking for my steel dream bike maybe it will be a fair light

[@djdtraining]

I’ve watched about 5 or 6 videos reviews on the Strael and so tempted. Has anyone ordered one from Australia? Just trying to get an estimate of timing inc delivery

[@steppings5645]

I would love to see the Tour won on steel again. Great video Dave love these chats.

[@davidarthur]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@danilocapellan1316]

Excellent 👍🏼

[@ianfranklin9482]

My old, steel Genesis Fortitude Single Speed was an awesome bike! Cheers Dom!

[@ericpmoss]

I'd like to see them use the hydroforming techniques that Anchor (the old Bridgestone) uses. I think they call it NeoCot. [Edit: it sounds like they do some of it already.]

[@emooooooo2036]

I have a Strael 2 and I love it. I’d quite like a secan but I am disappointed that they are now made in Taiwan which goes against my ethos of trying to buy British and buy something with eco creds.

[@Flyingtwiglet]

I’m building up my Secan 2.5 frame tomorrow 😃. It looks lush in orange and feels a lot lighter than I imagined. It’s beautifully made.

[@holdencaulfied7492]

He said "butted rear ends" at 37:50 LOL. Yes, I'm a child.

[@sabamacx]

Can't wait for my Secan and Faran to be delivered. Shame they're no longer made in the EU though, that was a big selling point.

[@c3pigpig]

You are better off with the Taiwan frame. The Czech frame is prone to rust as it is not internally coated before delivery. I had the Secan 2.0 and it is full of rust internally.

[@sabamacx]

@@c3pigpig No doubt, but I'd still prefer to pay the premium for an EU frame.

[@johnnymagicflute4874]

@@c3pigpig That's really interesting - where did you see that the Taiwan frames are internally coated?

[@c3pigpig]

@@johnnymagicflute4874 A few Secan 2.5 owners clarified with fairlight that the Taiwan frame suppose to be phosphate dip and Ed coated beforehand

[@johnnymagicflute4874]

@@c3pigpig That's great, thank you.

[@georgvonberg4377]

Absolutely amazing interview loaded with transforming insights. Outstanding job David with this fabulous guest!!! :)

[@cyclingtothemoon2539]

Forgive me for my ignorance, when I think of steel I think rust. Is rust an issue on steel frames that are ridden in all weather and road conditions? I assume they’re not using stainless steel or a rust proof steel? I know aluminium can fracture or get brittle over time but it wont have tiny rust spots all over it where a stone has hit it and gone through the paint… ?

[@trevekneebone369]

I'd like to know this too. Are the tubes treated in some way?

[@ShredST]

Decent steel framesets have anti-rust coating on the inside. There are also stainless steel bikes, but those are very rare. The steel used in Fairlight bikes is not stainless

[@jojoanggono3229]

That orange bike goes straight into my wishlist. Would love to ride that in a mix terrain rando.

[@KenSmith-bv4si]

In the Air Force(Phantom Phixer) I learned there are 7 forms of corrosion and not one of then attack carbon bike frames but, 3 of them affect steel.

[@simonm1447]

Carbon don't suffer from corrosion, but it can delaminate (this happened once to a Concorde rudder which disintegrated during flight) which is hard to detect, and it is sensitive if it gets a hit (in the case of a crash) on a tube. Of course steel needs corrosion protection, but this isn't a real problem as long as the bike isn't used during salty winters

[@LitNews]

Carbon is electrically conductive and can accelerate galvanic corrosion of metal components. Are there any metal components on your carbon bike?

[@xaviermelendez2639]

True. Have you looked into Reynolds 953 or Columbus XCr stainless tubing?

[@mramazingtroy]

Imagine if you could actually buy a steel frame at the moment. I've looked at fairlight and the waiting times are ridiculous. To the point a custom frame wait is only marginally better.

[@davidarthur]

Unfortunately there are delays for bikes and frames from most bike manufacturers, big and small

[@pigeonpoo1823]

Dave, I really enjoy watching these interviews. Why do we buy British? Cos we want to support these guys designing quality products that they want us to enjoy. See also, Whyte, Dolan, Genesis, Boardman, bowman (loved that video), Hunt, Hope, Mason, etc etc. We really are spoiled for choice. Also, thanks Dom, I adore my Equilibrium and imagine it will outlast me

[@greg4712]

Another equilibrium rider here! Absolutely love mine, it’s 5 years old and had clocked 30,000 miles. Still going strong!

[@benjaminmccann9144]

I’d love a stainless or Ti Strael???

[@davidarthur]

I'm sure a titanium version must be on the cards for the future, would love to see that. Maybe once supply isn't such a challenge

[@shmuelyosef1]

@@davidarthur I think that Dom has his hands full for a while, and quite honestly, I'm not sure that he could make a bike more responsive and comfortable than my Strael 3.0. When I was shopping for bikes, I got to test ride All-City Cosmic Stallions in both titanium and steel. The differences were VERY subtle.

[@markachternaam5207]

Would much rather have stainless steel over titanium.

[@grahamekellermeier8280]

All my bikes are steel frames steel great to ride.

[@sahasrangshuutube]

I have Gunnar Waterford Roadie

[@tonywebb532]

The best bicycle I ever owned was a hand made De Lange bicycle made from Reynolds 531 tubing. Unfortunately I was a victim of a hit and run accident. I fortunately survived but my bike was a write-off. Miss that bike. It was so responsive.

[@bradsanders6954]

Steel bikes are SO popular, when I ride my steel roadbike in local group rides, its always the only steel bike out there. Its a novelty for sure. Im sure it makes for clicks and likes on youtube to say steel is wildly popular. In any serious roadbike race there will be zero steel bikes, it just doesnt happen. But they are cool and mine works great.

[@bikemike1118]

Steel, Titanium and Aluminum = materials and frames you can rely on

[@bonzobanana1]

About 95% of all bikes sold in the world are steel. Not only does it dominate the entry level price sector but its the main material for Africa, Asia, South America , China, India etc. I think its the only material made into frames by robots. It has an incredibly low defect rate and is super easy to recycle which I think was mentioned in this interview. It's definitely the right material for a responsible environmentally focused world. CF is very slow to manufacture often with horrible working conditions, high level of defects with the worst safety record, not recyclable, easily damaged or destroyed. CF is the very worst material when it comes to the environment and compassion for others.

[@simonm1447]

In Western countries most bicycles are today made with aluminum frames, even budget bikes have aluminum frames here. It's hard to get a new steel bike, the only typical bikes made of steel are expensive touring bikes with a high payload or cheap entry level bikes (like Chinese fat bikes or entry level road bikes like the Eurobike 550)

[@bonzobanana1]

@@simonm1447 Where do you live? Here in the UK the average price of a bicycle including ebikes is only about £400 and we have places like Halfords, Decathlon, Argos, ebay, Amazon etc all offering a large amount of budget steel bikes. Many countries actually have an average purchase price for bikes less than the UK although I think countries like Germany and the Netherlands are more. A huge amount of Walmart bikes are steel and they have a huge chunk of the US bike retail market. However that 95% is a world statistic and we know China and India together make up a huge percentage of bikes sold. I would still expect to see perhaps 40-60% of bikes sold in the UK as steel but really have no figures to back that up but we have ebikes and performance bikes going up to £13k and yet the average price is just under £400. So you know a huge amount of bikes in the sub £200 price range make up the majority of sales to get that statistic. A quick look at Amazon's best sellers in bikes shows the vast majority of bikes are steel. Childrens, BMX, fat bike, some mountain bikes and other misc bikes maybe about 90% steel on that page although admittedly this time of year children's bikes move to the top. Seems like only a few months back children's bikes weren't so significant although the best sellers were still entry level steel bikes including folding. www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers-Sports-Outdoors-Bikes/zgbs/sports/550026011

[@simonm1447]

@@bonzobanana1 I live in Germany, here most bikes are meanwhile with aluminum frames, even the 250 € bikes offered in hardware stores. Amazon offers budget steel bikes (like cheap fat bikes or cheap road bikes like the Eurobike), stationary retailers in Germany usually don't. The budget steel bikes are usually made of carbon steel, lighter and better tubes made of cromoly are typical for more expensive frames, like touring bike frames or custom builds. A decent bike starts at 500 € in Germany, at least with some Deore components.

[@arifazhari7598]

Steel has something that other material did not have. History, simply steel bike does not boast much but simply beautiful to look at.

[@claudiovecchiatto3260]

Like everything as soon as something gets popular prices rise accordingly. Bikes are just overpriced. And steel bikes more than the others IMO. I mean they all say it's a easy to work with and humble material and then they charge you 1000+ for a frame. And most of these companies gets their frame done overseas. Just riding the wave of the cool/hipster/vintage movement they are

[@christerlundgren3805]

Have a look what the tubeset cost from reynolds or columbus, no one work for free i guess...

[@claudiovecchiatto3260]

@@christerlundgren3805 good point. And looking around all frames material have gone up in price the same.

[@BrianRPaterson]

I really enjoy this kind of content, but the number of ads popping up make it borderline unwatchable on KZbin. I'm going to track down the podcast.

[@davidarthur]

Hi Brian, thanks for the feedback. The ads are automatic by KZbin but I can look to manage them better on longer videos like this so thanks for letting me know.

[@BrianRPaterson]

@@davidarthur I know. I felt terrible as soon as I sent that. You have my sincere apologies. On the positive side, in-depth interviews on technical bicycle topics like this one are great. I'll keep my eye open for more of that, and other content.(SUBBED). Live long and keep pedalling!

[@davidarthur]

That's okay. I've turned off mid-roll adverts so feel free to try watching again without the interruptions this time

[@Strange_Brew]

The problem with steel bikes is the round tubes. Take a 6 ft broom handle in a 30mph wind and try to hold it up with your hand at one end. You can’t. Then, take an oval tube and you can. My Lightspeed ultimate has titanium oval tubes and really performs as good as new carbon aero bikes.

[@emotioneering]

When you’re a two stone overweight weekend warrior, a bit of extra mass in the frame is irrelevant vs the benefits

[@edwardallan197]

That's me!....

[@B8.5OZ]

Steel is cheap and more forgiving when you need to align forks or rear alignment issues. I am not a speed cyclist so don't need a Carbon bike the same price as a Yamaha. Most of my bikes are Aluminium which is great for picking them up. Pain when road surface unforgiving. Like the saying goes Steel & Aluminium. Jack of all, master of none but more durable and cheaper than carbon.

[@edwardallan197]

Steel is king for poor bike nuts. My Peugeot 501, and Bianchi only became mine to build after passing thru many years of idiots & theives, finally rusting on a pile. With work & care, they came back to life. You can do that with steel.

[@marksmith566]

Because people like saying “Steel is Real”

[@formernavyspook]

Real men have steel between their legs.

[@bengtwahlstedt1021]

Why does modern steelframes have a carbon fork !!?? That is stupid !!!! They should have a steel fork !!!! Carbon frames have carbon forks !!!!

[@davidarthur]

Because weight mainly. Plenty of options for all steel frame and fork if you want it though

[@shmuelyosef1]

Aluminum bikes have carbon forks as well. I have never owned a carbon bike, but the ones I have ridden have been a fairly harsh ride. On a steel bike, it is true that steel forks are pretty compliant (often laterally as much as front/aft)...a well designed carbon fork can be made laterally stiff and yet compliant to road chatter/bumps...plus it saves 1-1.5 pounds in the front end, which makes for very responsive tracking on rough roads.

[@brianford8493]

Because they bend and don't break

[@gaza4543]

oh they break BUT they're hell of easier to fix and make look dam near perfect again

[@JayLato]

Quick answer. Hipsters.

[@dmac2573]

Wrong. I have a steel gravel bike and it's insanely rugged. Don't have to baby it.

[@Foster_B]

@@dmac2573 you really don’t have to baby carbon either

[@dmac2573]

@@Foster_B it's definitely not as tough as steel, and harsher on your arse.

[@dmac2573]

@@bartoszsmietana1 Lol that's just not true though

[@gaza4543]

@@dmac2573 It bloody is, I have a steel bike sitting in the garage, any stone chip needs to be sealed straight away and cracks in the pain and you will see rust bubbles form under the pain. If not a few wet rides will have its way with it. Sure it won't break but it won't look pretty either. I agree that a wet winter, in general, won't ruin a steel frame but you do have to be mindful and quick to spot trouble before it starts and use preventive measures to control it. Now if you're speaking about stainless steel then that's a whole different ball game. But in general, a steel frame if you want it to look good and plan to keep it longer than 15 years id expect at least once in that time it will need a strip and full respray depending on how well you look after it. I've had my steel bike coming on 5 years and there are parts where corrosion has certainly set in under the paint and its cleaned and wiped down with WD and waxed to protect it once a week.