Why Bayonetta Is Still Controversial

[@monochromesoul5873]

I was just happy that a character Like B1 and B2 existed, campy, confident, feminine, hack and slashy, sassy. In B3 she never talks, the enemies have no personality, the main villain is a nobody, Luka became relelvant for some reason, Jeanne got the shortest end of the stick. This sucks.

[@garfieldkermit]

Only getting to see bayo and jeanne interact at the end honestly felt like we were getting punished especially

[@jamalhartley5863]

@@garfieldkermit It's even worse seeing them fighting together at the end showing off that chemistry they have with each other and it only reinforces why Jeanne is the obvious choice of if Bayonetta was going to have a romantic partner, if any, it would be Jeanne.

[@lunarkun6342]

@@jamalhartley5863 not really since it has been established in bayonetta 2 how they only see each other as sisters/best friends

[@jamalhartley5863]

@@lunarkun6342 You mean Bayonetta 2, the game in which the two live together, Bayonetta mentions that Jeanne isn't a morning person which shows that she's possibly waking her in the mornings, teases her with a wake up kiss, oh and the whole game is STEP BY STEP similar to the myth of Orpheus who went into the underworld to save his LOVER. Like...huh????

[@lunarkun6342]

@@jamalhartley5863 best friends live together all the time, and every friend has mocked the other with a kiss threat. And also, im pretty sure if everyone was as strong as bayonetta, they would save their best friend in inferno

[@BeannJuice]

I miss collecting LPs in Bayonetta where you can listen to classical music while gaining a new weapon

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

Same but I prefer this way of getting weapons they feel more relevant to the story

[@Teybort]

She now have interaction with some of her new weapons on the actual cut scenes wich is WAYYYY more worthy.

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@@Teybort yeah

[@austinmorrison6953]

@@MinatotheGreenLantern yeah carrying on the weapons of our fallen allies(or in this case fallen selves) is pretty cool.

[@MinatotheGreenLantern]

@@austinmorrison6953 I enjoy seeing her get new weapons

[@Matiasfv]

I feel like bayo 3 is one of those games that the more you are attached the characters and the story of bayonetta the more you hate the story in the third game, but for general audiences that wasn't that important to criticize since the gameplay was really good.

[@derrickdaniels3955]

I agree wholeheartedly

[@garfieldkermit]

definitely, the story gets more disappointing the more invested you are in the series

[@roamingtheinternet8652]

@@johnskith3849disagree a bit tbh, 3’s gameplay despite its big flaws is far better than Bayo 2 that genuinely had really shitty problems that were never addressed.

[@florida_sucks]

@@roamingtheinternet8652sure, but both are massive step downs from bayo1

[@jamalhartley5863]

Bayonetta legit opened my eyes to what a strong female protagonist looks like. She's a literal female gaming icon. Bayonetta 3 was kinda character assassination. She's constantly barely getting by, so many people die in front of her with her doing nothing, and she just was not herself at all. The fact she takes Luka seriously in any capacity, even as a lover doesn't fit. They clearly aren't sure what to do with this character. Multiverse was a terrible idea this early in the series. I felt genuine rage at how the game ended.

[@garfieldkermit]

Her not saving people was so insane, like the fact that they didnt even mention how she couldve saved them drove me mad

[@jamalhartley5863]

@@garfieldkermit she could block a bullet with another bullet. But she couldn't shoot the thing that was gonna possess french Bayonetta

[@sohaibhamdan2114]

Same lol I wasn't even hyped or something I was just looking dissapointed and questioning what happened

[@Sunnysideup420]

Throughout the game I realized that they completely switched two characters’ roles which I think ruined the story. And while Bayo’s character was definitely ruined and it has a part in it, I think this is another. And that’s Luka and Jeanne. Luka was a character who was not taken seriously and has been more of a comedic relief. His relationship with Bayo in 1 and 2 felt more like a “friends who flirt.” And whenever Bayo interacted with him, the tone was always comedic, sure there were moments of seriousness, but it was balanced. Jeanne throughout 1 and 2 had different roles, and they still worked. She is a character to be taken more seriously because of her relationship with Bayo and also her roles. She is Bayonetta’s partner and equal. She is the only one from Bayonetta’s past that is still alive and her relationship with Bayonetta is more deep. Which is why most moments with her are serious. Sure she can have comedic moments, but like Luka, they were balanced. In 1 and 2, Bayonetta’s most vulnerable moments were with Jeanne. Because Jeanne is a more serious character. But in Bayonetta 3, they are completely switched. Luka is the more serious character while Jeanne is the more comedic character. This is what brought it down. Like, Bayonetta’s reaction was to Jeanne’s death was insulting. That was just… god it was terrible

[@_mari_1555]

THIS!☝💖💯💖💯

[@Yoshizuyuner]

Bayonetta was in middle of a bloody battle she had no time at all to cry her heart out for her

[@BEEEES]

​@@Yoshizuyunerand yet she took a moment to mourn her fluffy boytoy when he reopened the portal for her.

[@pbg624]

The fact that they tried to force this relationship but also try to claim this is her child is ludicrous. Last I checked I thought Bayonetta didn’t like children so I never imagined her to be a mother.

[@DarkSeraph]

She grew to care for her child self in 1 and Loki in 2 so she does care.

[@LatchinOn]

Bayonetta never said she didn't like children. She said she didn't like CRYING children.

[@hyliahyrule4508]

@@LatchinOn uhm, she actually did say she has no interest in children verbatim in Bayonetta 1

[@Megadoomer3]

It's her child from another universe/timeline, so the main Bayonetta hasn't had a kid. (and didn't show any attraction to Luka until the final hour of Bayo 3)

[@Yoshizuyuner]

Dude really thinks that in a multiverse there isn’t different bayos with different sexuality’s and shit

[@Crzypengu]

The Hellena Taylor situation still hurts me to this day. Its not so much that she didn't tell the full truth, but that we don't know the full story on her side. Most people only know her as a voice actress and question why she wasn't in acting roles as shown on iMDB. From doing research she has mostly been doing work in the Theatre industry rather than voice acting. Perhaps she enjoyed doing Theatre over voice acting and would stick with it. However during the Covid-19 pandemic the Theatre industry was essentially destroyed and with Hellena Taylor moving back to London I highly doubt she found any income or jobs to work. This probably would have hurt her a lot financially that she was looking for ways to make more money that could help her out through her problems. I can't remember exactly who said it, but either platinum or one of the workers there knew she was going through some depression at the time. Going through old tweets of Taylors Twitter account also has some instances of people asking if she was doing alright before this whole controversy came about. My best guess is that she doesn't know much about how the Video Game Industry works and hoped that she could get some kind of royalty for voicing the character again. Platinum Games of course doesn't owe her more money than she could offer which is probably why she cause the call to boycott in the first place. Asking for more money is definitely greedy, but I also wouldn't be surprised if she was going through financial problems with her theatre career. She also got married a couple years back, but we don't know much about that. Even with how bad that acting controversy went, I do wish we could get Hellena Taylor back as Bayonetta but I can't see that happening at this time

[@garfieldkermit]

Its a shame, because if she was transparent about the whole situation, her legacy would be significantly better than the state it is in now!

[@Crzypengu]

@@garfieldkermit it definitely would be. I want to plan on making a video retrospective about the whole series and its controversies over time by next year. Part of me wants to reach out to her to do an interview to ask about her acting career in theatre and then what happened during Covid for her. I just need more answers to stuff like this.

[@Xtarlina27]

Doesn’t matter anymore, she’s a worthless nobody, and I highly doubt anyone would be willing to forgive her.

[@popcultureoverdosed]

She ruined her own legacy and got what she deserved.

[@ihaveakirbyobessesion2617]

Ugh hellena we were rooting for you we were all rooting for you !

[@garfieldkermit]

She ruled twitter for about 48 hours lmao

[@kasumi9873]

I cloud get over this forced relationship but i will never forgive them for throwing Jeanne and Bayonetta into trash to give little miss Viola spotlight

[@garfieldkermit]

Jeanne deserved so much more

[@skyhero6236]

What like voila she what most teenagers are like

[@dvreaux]

​@@skyhero6236let's not lie now...

[@skyhero6236]

@@dvreaux what I like voile and the fact she not brain dead like bayo and you that you can’t dodge to get witch time and a free combo

[@luhaleyry321]

@@skyhero6236 why so heated? Crazy to call people "brain dead" for a video game character

[@SomeSprites]

The thing with Bayonetta's plot is that it's not story driven. The story isn't exactly bad, per se. It's simple, rudimentary and mostly serves to outline the characters in it, just like how most hack and slash games' plots are. It's a character driven plot, and it's why people look back at it fondly. So when you take away the character driven plot and basically assassinate its characters and what people loved about them, try to make it more story focused while also somehow not really committing to the story bit, it's obvious why a lot of people would be left disappointed with the 3rd game. It's the same reason why the DMC reboot attempt, as you mentioned, suffered - because it tried to reinvent the series without understanding why it was beloved. And heck, as far as I've heard the game actually has good gameplay, much like B3. One thing I always loathe when I see people discussing the ending as well is that people are actually mad "because their head canon didn't become official" which, no? I genuinely cannot understand how someone could think that with their full ass brain. If anything, I've seen more people say that Bayonetta would've been way better off without any romantic plot going on at all. What people are pointing out is that she and Jeanne have way, way more chemistry between them than Bayo and Luka, and for the 3rd entry to just pretend like he was actually more important and deserving of her romantic love is just full out ignoring the established characters and relations in the previous 2 games. Sure that can be weaved off as just a "multiverse" thing, but when it comes to that point it just stops being interesting and enthralling - characters can be redone, killed, brought back and whatever all because it's just a multiverse, at which point why the hell should I even care about the characters from the character driven plot? (Although it's funny that the game released in the same year as one of the few media pieces that actually did a multiverse story properly, that being EEAAO. And it's honestly one of my favorite pieces of media ever and one of the few that has made me cry). And on the note of the random surge of dudebros trying to deny that Bayonetta has ever been queer-coded or that queer people were in the wrong to see her as an inspirational character: may I point you to yet another campy, sexy witch donning all black that fought against holy adversaries that hated her simply because she was unashamed of herself and was also subject to advertising to mainly cishet men : Elvira, Mistress Of The Dark?

[@garfieldkermit]

I hadnt even considered the elvira comparison, its the crossover we deserve!

[@FEKana]

Honestly, I think Bayonetta 3 may have suffered from Mass Market Appeal. The fact that they included Niave angel mode is my biggest suspect of this. Most people who play Bayonetta know about the partial nudity, why would they then need a mode that covered her up. Yeah you could say that Niave angel mode is a joke since it changes things like cigarettes and Bayonetta pulling a tomato out of her chest instead of her heart, but it did still prevent her from undressing when summoning demons. Because the mass Market would be confused by Bayonetta 1 and 2's type of story (despite them in concept being easy to understand and are in Detail a little confusing) Bayo 3 went with a concept most people understand and recognize. The multiverse, which allows them to be as inconsistent as they like without major consequences

[@iguessthisismyworkaccountl8437]

i do kind of like the "naïve" masquerade forms a buit more since I think the added covering gives more shape to the body, as weird as that sounds.

[@FEKana]

@iguessthisismyworkaccountl8437 and that's fair. I just think this game screams for a mass Market attention rather just purely those who like the bayo franchise and or brawler esc games (the actual name of the genre eludes me right now)

[@mondaymauve]

​@@FEKana Hack and Slash?

[@IceQueen975]

I never played Bayo BECAUSE of the nudity. It made me uncomfortable, sorry. I actually like the option. Now, it;s must stay *optional* , as I don't wanna censor. But the option is nice.

[@FEKana]

@IceQueen975 that's fair, but at that point you kind of lose half of the charm of what makes Bayonetta a semiunique hack and Slash game. I mean I was pretty uncomfortable (being a gay man and all and female nudity made me uncomfortable when I was younger, not so much anymore) at some point too so I understand the sentiment you have. I just think that at that point. If we're gonna add a censored option for nudity, what stops them from doing the same with violence, etc. But that's just my opinion. People are free to like the game and if it helps them enjoy bayonetta, what do I care

[@demoncakes4405]

In my eyes I don’t think any side has any good in them, Helena for lying, and Hideki Kamiya for ending the Bayonetta 3 story like that… it’s like shaking off a monster to the wing of a plane… Only for that plane to be intentionally flown into a cliff . _ .

[@sceneiorcitzien]

I just finished a play through of Bayonetta 3 and I love the game mechanics! I just wish this bayonetta was as feminine and charismatic as the first one. I’m trying really hard to like Viola, but what annoys me is how she’s not introduced properly

[@moukies]

A+ breakdown as usual. I think you utterly nailed it.

[@garfieldkermit]

Thanks so much!

[@HamburgerHelpMe_]

I have to say this is one of the most thorough break downs of the Helena controversy, that was refreshing in itself. The definition of a rollercoaster

[@garfieldkermit]

It was so weird to live through, like I almost made a video about it like halfway through so I'm happy I waited until it was properly over because things just kept on happening!

[@j.a3788]

As a multishipper idc who she would end up with, but atleast make luka's story a lil better. Even the fact fae (that already talked about in bayo1) felt so out of place to me

[@sohaibhamdan2114]

We need more fans like you lol it seems like alot of ppl are mad bcs she doesn't end up w Jeanne or just cause she's straight or bi idk I'd rather have her stay single tbh

[@BEEEES]

Bayonetta shouldn't have been paired with anyone, but especially not luka. I just find it so difficult to imagine these characters being a couple with the way they are characterized

[@thisabambii2323]

@@sohaibhamdan2114fans are mostly mad at the fact that luka and bayonnetta are together when they literally have no chemistry but jeanne and bayonnetta has chemistry and have history together. Even years ago the creators was saying that bayonnetta and Jeanne are girlfriends.

[@thisabambii2323]

@@sohaibhamdan2114 they basically queerbaited them

[@cynthiasoolihua2410]

honestly what kills me is that B1/2 Bayonetta was so much more herself - witty, sarcastic, self assured, sexual, but in B3 she literally hardly speaks after the China levels, and her dancing is cutesy/k-pop style (like watch CreativeHandle's edit where she does the Let's Dance choreo to Catellena by Orange Caramel. It actually fits the song there) instead of the unique sensuality she had before. Also, as a woman, my favourite part of Cereza was that she had NOTHING to do with men. Like nothing at all. She states that she refuses Rodin save her/fight for her, rejects all of Luka's advances, and her sexuality - one of the if not THE only form of female sexuality done right in media - never once felt like it was extrinsic. That is to say, it came from within her, and for herself, and not something she performed for the approval of external eyes. And in B3 not only was her sexuality spayed after like Chapter 3 lol, her story literally gets co-opted to be ABOUT a MAN. Not to mention if Bayo3 is Cereza from B1... then her falling in love with Luka is so gross. Like please why are we accepting a Freudian story about a little girl finding a lover that is literally the same person as her guardian father figure in B1. Yuck! I also want to say that Viola's design and behaviour takes away from the core conceit of Bayonetta as a series. That women can be empowered sexually via THEMSELVES, that they can be traditionally feminine and still be powerful, that they don't need to be traditionally masculine in order to be cool, fun, powerful, badass, etc. But Viola as a character feels so terribly generic exactly because she foregoes the original point of Cereza/Bayonetta's character. Like how many tradmasc lead characters do we have in games already versus tradfem characters? What if that girl from Lollipop Chainsaw wore heavy boots, pants and a biker jacket suddenly? Would she be at all unique or memorable anymore?

[@garfieldkermit]

I agree with a lot of this, but especially the start, like she feels so sedated in b3, and WHY DID THEY FIRE THE OLD CHOREOGRAPHER??

[@TeaTimeTable]

First of all this is a different Bayonetta all of the Bayonetta's are their own timelines just because they wanted the story of this one to be with Luka doesn't mean or take away from her character at all and she's always hinted that she's at least somewhat caring towards Luka even in the first game and movie "like if you don't like men just say it" Her falling in love with luka is gross yet she's like 500+ years older than him LMFAO still unsure how he came across his powers in this world but that "Yuck" comment was so unneeded. Viola while I hate her too she's Punk and very clearly a daddy's girl as you can tell she is feminine in her own way if you pay attention to her she's just outgoing in contrast to Bayonetta's calm cool and collected personality.

[@cynthiasoolihua2410]

@@TeaTimeTable hey! Thanks for the reply. Id just like to clarify somethings; I think you took what I said way outta context. Firstly I was talking about how Bayonetta’s story was about her own arc as a woman, fighter, person. So the fact Luka got turned into such an integral character to her success (literally half the game is about finding him, restoring him from being a Faewolf, the whole faerie concept in general, opening the way back from Alphaverse, and saving Viola’s life) instead of as a supporting character to Bayonetta’s successful actions really burns. The ‘yuck’ comment wasn’t unnecessary, sorry. I don’t know how else to explain the weirdness of a little girl dating the same man who took care of her. Sorry! Also, I specified traditional femininity. Viola is not traditionally feminine. Thanks!

[@TeaTimeTable]

@@cynthiasoolihua2410 This Bayonetta didn't have a story to begin with she got wrapped up in Viola's shit show of a story they wrote almost immediately and from there just pretty much accepted things and then came to a realization that she liked luka after all the time I guess her and this Luka spent together. Also the whole taking care of her a a child thing is the equivalent of you getting turned into a young girl version of yourself and having your girlfriend/boyfriend randomly walking in and seeing you like that and then finding out a way to see if you can turn back. He didn't raise her at all it was a random situation that happened and she just trusted him to look after her younger self there was no romance at all involved there. I'm willing to argue she's at the very least more feminine than the french Bayonetta.

[@iguessthisismyworkaccountl8437]

i mean, i like viola for that exact reason, she is the opposite of bayonetta, i just wish that they did something with that.

[@jay-no9qq]

A lot of fans were burned badly. And fans will be extremely more cautious when bayo 4 comes around

[@TurtlePWR108]

Love how everyone titles their bayo 3 ending “straightonetta” lol

[@StillThatJelly]

i still couldve accepted the forced relationship beetween bayonetta and a side character who suddenly got relevant BUT TAKING AWAY ALL THAT SCREEN TIME FOR JEANNE she had so much potential and so much stuff they could do with her but no they preferred making her just "saving" professor cigarette with some sketchy arcade game and then getting killed by him like it was nothing i cant accept her death it was so stupid

[@mondenkindqueen]

Jeanne deserved better. If Bayonetta Origins gets a sequel, Jeanne is being foreshadowed as the focus, with a goal of “finding a true path” to avoid her untimely fate. So there’s hope.

[@garfieldkermit]

The ending really felt so abrupt, I was really expecting Jeanne to be brought back somehow, but they moved on from her dying sooo quickly it was mad

[@sohaibhamdan2114]

They rlly did her dirty imo they did both duo they didn't look like a duo or partners they were never together

[@odisleftpaw5663]

it's so sad how this game started out so well in the prologue but each chapter it felt less and less like bayonetta to the point that she barely gets any lines at all, I'm gay as hell for the record but the lack of nudity in this game felt so weird??? bayonetta to me has always been about the ridiculous sexiness that she displays because she can and wants but in this game there was barely any of that?? like after the first chapter the stupid cutscenes with ridiculous nudity became less and less common and I think that's one of the thousands of flaws with this game

[@garfieldkermit]

I hadn't even really picked up on that but yeah the sexuality did seem a bit more tame than the previous games

[@telekinesticman]

I love when people try to use the one throwaway line when she's teasing Luka in Bayo 1 about how she has no interest in children, "but making them on the other hand..." as some kind of concrete proof that she couldn't possibly be in a gay relationship with Jeanne. One single line of dialogue that I honestly always interpreted as quite tongue-in-cheek, maybe even sarcastic, but even if she was serious - so what? She's bisexual, cool, either way it doesn't matter. I don't think most fans have an issue with the idea of Cereza being attracted to men in any way, it's the fact that it was Luka *specifically*. That's always been the problem for me, anyway, not even counting how blatantly they disregard the existing relationship for her and Jeanne. It's always funny that people show up just to complain about how "shipping drama" doesn't matter, but clearly they're upset by it, because why else are they publicly complaining about someone else's opinion of it? Just that cyclical nature of online discourse that I notice far too often.

[@garfieldkermit]

I find it hilarious that within a day of you commenting this, I've seen someone else use this exact justification for her being straight. Like you said it's frustrating on the grounds of bi erasure alone, but as well as that, its like there are so many other aspects of bayonettas personality you have to overlook to take that line seriously in any capacity. And yeah, people who act above shipping discourse as a justification for getting involved will never not be funny

[@telekinesticman]

@@garfieldkermit I included that scene ("do I look like I have any interest in children?") in my Bayo 3 video to make a point about how I don't really see Bayonetta as a mother, and people thought I was doing some conspiratorial manipulation in my editing when I didn't include the "now making them on the other hand..." follow up line. I didn't include it because it wasn't necessary at all to the point I was making - I didn't say Bayonetta could never enjoy sex with men, I just said I didn't think she would get pregnant with Luka's kid. It's a weird thing to imagine happening in-universe. I never even mentioned her sexuality once in the video, yet people took it as me complaining she wasn't gay. You can always tell these people are just like, blatantly homophobic when that's the only thing they complain about anyway.

[@garfieldkermit]

@@telekinesticman Haha I'm sure you understand the jumps in logic that come with publicly critiquing bayonetta 3, I'll have to check out your video! :)

[@draconicfeline6177]

I mean, people change. She might or might not want to have a kid at some point, or more accurately, THAT Bayo decided to do it. Maybe most Bayos take the interactions with little Cereza and Loki and go NOPE ALL THE NOPE and maybe 5% of the time, she has a few more positive thoughts. Multiverse! ... Don't like how Bayo 3 has so much Luka, it's not very organic and as has been stated, it takes away from her personality as not giving a fuck about what men think about her. Bayo 1 and 2 are very different beasts.@@telekinesticman

[@eamsamaraka486]

bayo one has the best visual story telling of the franchise, angels looking celestial and grandiouse but have a pretty nasty look once they recieved some dmg, flipping the whole "light is good" around, 2 was amazing but lacked the special feeling and 3 is just meh. i see the third entry often praised for its gameplay but i felt even that lacking big time, cant see things, forcing you to play a certain way with big enemies among other things.

[@garfieldkermit]

Yeah, the camera was so much better in the first two, but with all the demons I kinda get why it was worse, but it's still a shame

[@outrageouslamp4539]

I think my main problem with the story was how poorly set up the antagonist was. It just made bayonetta feel far weaker than she was in the previous 2 titles, especially given how many bayonettas die in this game in such lame ways. Post game not allowing you to select different characters for replaying chapters feels like an oversight. At the very least jeanne should have been selectable for the bayonetta levels (and they should let the player obtain the different costumes for jeanne seen through the game).

[@garfieldkermit]

Overall Jeanne was just done so dirty by the whole game, especially considering how 2 seemed to set her up as a much more important character!

[@outrageouslamp4539]

@GarfieldKermit the way they killed her off just felt so disrespectful to the character. Like, really? A stab in the back?

[@garfieldkermit]

@Outrageous Lamp the umbran witches in general seemed so much weaker in 3, like Jeannes death, but every AU bayonetta died in such a stupid avoidable way, like Bayonetta dodges bullets all the time and is shown to have amazing reactions, the way every character dies feels honestly inconceivable.

[@outrageouslamp4539]

@GarfieldKermit there were so many better ways that they could have still killed them off while honering the characters. Imo they should have gone out on their own terms. As for the alt bayonettas, their deaths were so stupid. They should have built the antagonist up way more to show why they are strong enough to kill so many bayos. The last two games ended with bayonetta defeating gods. This just made her feel underpowered rather than making the enemy seem all powerful. At least the game play was good

[@CowboyTiger0600]

Hey first of all nice vid! 26:30 "cereza and the lost demon" this game will prob. start another controversy when it comes out because the new information and characters sprite revaled recently show the child figure that almost everyone expected to be "lukaon" to be ctually him and even has some of the clothing patterns of luka, the conclusion is.... this new game is probably going to try to justify why bayo and luka are together with a... actually luka was always a reborn god faerie with superpowers with the purpose of being with cereza ( No longer "bayonetta" cause that's just a nickname apparently) and protect her 🤢, which sounds like more of a betrayal to the series I'm very depressed

[@garfieldkermit]

I'm intrigued to see where the story goes, but the romance between Luka and Bayo really just gets more icky the more you think about it

[@CowboyTiger0600]

@@garfieldkermit I am too, kinda, but I'm gonna watch it trough gameplays and streams there's no way I'm putting more money into this series

[@garfieldkermit]

​@@CowboyTiger0600 oh same here honestly at full price it's kinda crazy

[@williamgriskell7752]

@@garfieldkermit it's icky because your one of those guys who thinks hating men is cool and you have a tremendous amount of self hate. What a clown

[@draconicfeline6177]

Ew Ew ew, she needs no protection, she needs no fated romance, let her be free.

[@wayverleesoulsong]

Bayonetta 3, compared to the previous two, does not feel like a Bayonetta game

[@PrettyGothBoi6085]

Genuinely always saw bayo and jeanne as sisters, but after rethinking it, i get it. Now I'm sad too.

[@crypt2niite]

i was eating while watching this and did an /actual spittake/ when i saw how low your subscribers were and how low the views on this video are, the video is well paced, your voice is very pleasant, and your points are all well formulated and articulated, as well as the editing being on point, absolute hidden gem of a channel and i look forward to watching you grow exponentially in the future!

[@garfieldkermit]

Lmao thank you so much, glad you enjoyed it!!

[@thecreativesparkyt470]

The cereza and the lost demon game is fairly cute. More so following an Alice in wonderland lore since bayonetta seems to refer to that in the series quite a bit. More so whimsical in the eyes of a child. with decent evading and new techniques it feels pretty new especially with being able to play as Cheshire. I think I like it so far tho because I loved Alice growing up and the bayo games are some of my favorites.

[@mondenkindqueen]

Playing through it now. It’s cute and I like the story. Good gameplay shakeup. The one mark against it is how difficult it is to navigate the world.

[@garfieldkermit]

I hadn't even considered the Alice comparison for CatLD, I'll have to keep that in mind when i get around to playing it!

[@salemtheastra]

The thing i hated most was how horribly the story line was executed. The multiverse theory for bayonetta could have been SO much more had they actually made it good. For starters the whole viola thing should have been trashed there were 1000 other things that could have been done to get the plot started. 2nd Is the bayonetta you play as, WHO STANDS THERE WATCHING YOUR VARIANTS GET KILLED, literally she does NOTHING to help the varients, im give her a pass for egyptian bayo since we saw that was completely fine the first 2 times but for some reaosn passed out so thats the creators fault but the other times were easily avoidable, another thing is you dont even get to interact with them much. And my biggest issue is jeanne, she is ALWAYS getting the short end of stick and this time for what? So a ship that felt more forced then anything can happen and a character who im sure 87 percent of the fandome dislikes? In bayo 3 jeanne got done so dirty its not even funny. Its just straight up disrespectful

[@jaguar4120]

I've been a Bayonetta fan since the WiiU era. When I brought Bayonetta 1 and 2. I absolutely hated the story of Bayonetta 3.

[@eduaragao]

I don't think Bayo needs to be queer herself to be a queer icon, the same way many queer icons were not queer, nor ever said anything about the subject. To me, it's all about making femininity look powerful through extravagance.

[@AndrewSnake]

The core issues i see in Bayo 3 is the multiverse stuff, the writers want the cake and eat to , add the multiverse fatigue now and the ending making space to a new one , of course have multiverse as a excuse for Bayo be bi or not, have feeling for him etc, because simple put , next Bayo could be a new one and ignore the last 3 games And not sure where i hear but i hear there plan this trilogy story or the bare bones of it, ya sure ... i could believe the time travel stuff, but multiverse is a far fecht , this IP berely have any hype power whit just 3 and one spin off

[@exo_eve7575]

I very recently played bayo 1. I played bayo 2 last year and bayo 3 on release and playing the first game fresh gave me lots of perspective on what made bayo 3 so weird. The Humonculi felt soulless cuz they are only weapons, the angels and demons are living beings that were able to have a back and forth with bayo. Some of the highlights of bayo 1 was her and the boss angels having cheeky convo before the fights. Singularity was the only part of the faction that spoke to her which is such a missed opportunity to me. With a multiverse plot they could have done so much. Maybe instead of just "living" weapons, the faction could have been a hyper mutated militaristic faction of humans whose earth is based purely on conquest and when they got done with their universe they wanted to conquer EVERY universe. Giving the faction more opportunities for unique voiced characters instead of just one bonkers old man. Also I hate the idea of them giving her a kid. its a tiring trope of the cool femme fatale to get softened by becoming a mother, like its the end goal for every woman. She took care and grew attached to Cereza in the first game but she wasn't a MOTHER. there is a difference. (it just shows that Kamiya (who has plans up to bayo 9) is still such a man, the ending feels like such a man thing to come up with lol). Also Viola really didn't even need to be her daughter to exist. If they wanted another playable witch to show a more modern girl, they had a multiverse literally right there to play with! They could have had Viola come from a universe where the witch hunts didn't happen or simply an apprentice to Bayo since in the journals in Bayo 1 state that witches dont come purely from blood but by their affinity with Spiritual Energy. the idea that we were robbed of a prologue that showed the power of Singularity not only killing a Bayo but a universe that had the full might of the Umbra is a tragedy. Also would help make it known that that Bayo wasn't Bayo1 since stupidly they share the same design... Finally Who the fuck are the fairies!?!? Why are they so important and shoe horned in. In all the journals of Bayo 1 (IDK about bayo 2) the word fairies was only used like twice... I swear they just wanted to give something to Viola to make her cooler and make her extra special by being the combo of a witch and fae. Also to give Luka something to be important. Honestly I should make a video one day cuz i have SO many thoughts about this. I love Bayo 3 so much. the gags were fun, the style and feminine sparkle is maxed, the gameplay feels great (Even Viola with some practice) but the story...zoinks.

[@garfieldkermit]

That part about the homunculi though... like I miss her quipping with the enemies and it was essentially gone

[@dip4329]

I've played thought the game 3 times since release and it's become my favorite action combat system of all time. The best way to play the game in my opinion is to completely ignore all collectibles and the viola chapters and it's so wonderful. I'm constantly smiling playing as bayonetta and while many of the other parts of the game aren't nearly as close to core combat the combat is so amazing I'll play it over and over again.

[@garfieldkermit]

I definitely think I'll like it more personally upon a replay, being able to skip the Viola chapters and ignore the collectibles will improve the pacing so much more!

[@10Bendog]

I love Bayonetta 3, although I find it weird how abruptly ended. You escort Dr. Sigurd from the lab and credits roll. Like, the game just ended there. It doesn’t matter tho. Every level before it is fun. I’ve grown to like Viola’s sections, especially after the patch that buffed her, and I’m so happy that they let us be able to replay chapters from certain verse, so I don’t have to go through some of the sections when I’m not in the mood for them, like chasing after Rosa through Paris. P.S. Also, yes, I am kidding about the end thing. But those final two chapters are where most of my problems with 3 stem, and I would gladly sacrifice two cool, but brief, moments in them to just pretend neither chapter exists.

[@garfieldkermit]

Lmao don't tease me with the good timeline where it ends there, I can only dream

[@lightmana4415]

Great video. I am amazed how many details throughout different aspects of the games. I personally enjoyed fight part of bayonetta 3 actually but not a fan of story part and character shift. From my opinion, Bayonetta is a character who overcome whatever challenges throwing at her a positive and somewhat humor way, which make Bayonetta unique and cheeling to play. But in Bayonetta 3, Bayonetta seems lost all along the story. Seeing her alts got killed 4 times and fell to a obvious trap just make audience feel bad.

[@jurnikovah7453]

This channel should’ve been more popular.

[@garfieldkermit]

Thank you! :)

[@user-ls5nl5hr8p]

I got random people harassing me in my DMs because I said I didn't think the Bayo 3 romance was good. I've been a fan since 2016 and I'm pretty good at recognizing the familiar faces in the Bayo fan art, modding and youtube communities, but I had people I've never seen in the fandom before telling me I'm a stupid triggered snowflake and that Bayonetta has always been a straight character and that it's not a game for gay people... it was a lot! it was also very dumb! I didn't even mention BayoJeanne, I do ship it but the tweets I made about the Bayo 3 romance literally just said that I didn't find it very convincing

[@garfieldkermit]

Yeah I haven't been deep in the bayo fandom for long, but just the jump between pre and post b3 is insane with how toxic it has become

[@Andrea-rc1gz]

Same here people got upset at me for saying luka and bayonetta together didn’t make sense. I didn’t even mention jeanne

[@StillThatJelly]

the more i look at this whole situation the more im scared of actually trying to become a voice actor

[@esteboi3858]

this video is legitimately great as a nice look back of the general overarching drama this series found itself sadly into my only issue is that i wish this video was made more recently. there’s been a bit that’s been happening especially with some of this drama getting more recently divisive with the official fanart of luka and bayo as parents do you plan to make potentially another follow up video? genuinely loved this leveled but honest attitude you brought into this video and the community absolutely needs more of it

[@garfieldkermit]

Glad you enjoyed it! Planning to make a follow up on cereza and the lost demon and might mention that controversy when I make it!

[@esteboi3858]

@@garfieldkermit thank you for replying! with how choatic and horribly bayo 3 onward discussion is it was so nice to see a video like yours that was relatively unbias and looked at all sides fairly. it’s still insane to me still how badly the community got after one game, but i’m interested to hear how the lost demon was for people who played it

[@crypterion_moon]

I don't really agree with the relationship part, I never saw Jeanne and Bayonetta being together in that sense. They were sisters and the last Umbran sisters to me. But I can see why people felt the romance between Luka and Bayonetta came out of nowhere, the build up to it wasn't present in the first 2 games but at the same time, it was ambiguous regarding whether Bayonetta here was the same one from 1 and 2. It seems that this Bayonetta 3 isn't the same Bayonetta as 1 and 2 because her mannerisms aren't as exaggerated as before, she seems more reserved than the previous games. It did raise some questions as to what caused the change but I knew I wouldn't get my answer until later. There was a video in which it explained that due to the events of Bayonetta 1, Cereza would come to idolize the Bayonetta that saved her and return with memories of her but never be her in the exact same way and that led to the conclusion that the Bayonetta we see in 3 is in fact little Cereza from Bayonetta 1. But that's just a theory.

[@denizplays1307]

I found this video randomly and found it very entertaining and very well explained than most videos talking about the Bayonetta drama, fanbase, etc. I wish people could just enjoy the game and not whining about everysingle little thing BUT its obviously not wrong to talk about serious drama, controversies, etc. that could ruin the series also yes DmC Devil May Cry wasn't good as the original games, but an interesting take on how Capcom reimagined Dante and the others and making him and Vergil to Nephilims which is a serious cool concept Anyways like I said the video was entertaining, well explained and like your voice, so chill and very clear imo, and I'm impressed how much work and time you put into these videos so imma say, Congratulations: you just earned yourself a new subscriber! :)

[@garfieldkermit]

Thank you so much, I'm glad you liked it! :)

[@popsicleblues6569]

At this point i truly don't care what other people think about it, 3 was just as amazing as the other games in my eyes. The games have always been pretty polarizing feeling; being very unfriendly to new players, combat being basically everyone's favorite part but constantly being interrupted by what feel like mini games(seemingly to try and break up the monotony or try crazy shit), and the story being ass backwards until you get the full picture. It seems like it's just me but after fucking YEARS i'm just happy i've got another game of my favorite queen, because it's felt like she might not even get more games *since the first one*. This feeling has me justifying a bit after the fact but i was yelling, pissing, and shitting at the mindnumbing special event levels just as much as the other games, tho adding Viola on top of that was psychopathic levels of torture. I also think the games art design is fucking gorgeous as ever and hearing people shit themselves over it has turned into a red flag. Not gunna try to defend the hetero fairy romance because that shit *stinks* but when i saw her die I was just as accepting, with all the controversy she was like "might as well gtfo now" lol

[@WesternNoivern]

The Cereza and the lost demon analysis WAS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID!!! Why are they alienating the exact audience they are targeting? Old time BAYO fans who like the story are getting a game about the lore of a game that SHAT on the story we liked fans who just wanna play for the gameplay (and the sexiness) are getting a completely different medium and a game about a kid Bayo Who is this game even for?? The ppl who don’t care abt the story care more about everthing this game does not offer!!

[@garfieldkermit]

It does feel a little niche but I've seen some people say its good so idek anymore

[@apexfalllegendarium349]

@@garfieldkermit Bayonaise 1 is all i know,its the hardest to pure platnium you can make even harder and its the best story best looking graphically best looking bayonetta

[@bunnymoon5290]

I don’t like the bisexual erasure with the shippers; I think she can still be gay and still be with Luca..personally I liked the two together, and it’s been hinted at since the first game.

[@garfieldkermit]

You're right with the bi erasure, and i wish i mentioned it in the video, I think the reason it happens a lot with b3 specifically is because of the multiverses and how one bayonetta who portrays queerness might not be the bayonetta who ended up with luka

[@heymomm1922]

Bayonetta is straight y'all will be okay.

[@thisabambii2323]

@@heymomm1922they never said anything about her sexuality so stop it

[@unknownuser7542]

my main issue with Bayonetta 3s ending isnt even the Bayoluka thing. It's the way Jeanne and Bayonetta die. One of my favourite parts of B1 and B2 were, how overpowered Bayonetta she is. The games are still challenging but she always won. It was like part of her as a character. So for Jeanne to be stabbed by a grandpa in a wheel chair and Bayonetta to be overpowered by some goo it just felt not credible. And to add to the mess, Viola didnt even defeat Singularity, which made her seem unworthy of the name Bayonetta. I feel like this ending could've been easily fixed.

[@jaguar4120]

Absolutely agree. The ending should have ended sooner.

[@BEEEES]

​@@jaguar4120 we won against singularity six times and the game didn't let us win

[@jaguar4120]

@@BEEEES That was the most annoying part of the game. You beat up and win but still get punished? What was the point?

[@jadenmcbride4900]

Tbh I love bayo 3 tho the ending was....well for me was not expecting this plus I do like Viola tho and I'm kind of looking forward in bayo 4 also so many theory like the world is back the way it was and all bayo are back the life it's just some theory that I know so far but I really enjoyed bayo 3 and ik we all have opinions about the game

[@elmichidelosojostristes9817]

I really don’t like the story, I forced myself but I just couldn’t. They killed Jeanne, made Luka more relevant for some reason, the villain was so random, and enemies are meh, and the ending seemed like story boards just wanted to kill bayo in some way. A big problem I had was Bayo and Luka, they never had chemistry, and even if they did have chemistry, it wouldn’t mean Bayo couldn’t represent lgbt, it would still be an lgbt relationship if Bayo was lgbt, but Luka and Bayo never had chemistry together! One thing that I constantly do when playing the game is thinking she is Cereza from Bayo 1 and not Bayo from Bayo 1. I hope we get a dlc or something. 😭

[@garfieldkermit]

The killing of Jeanne and Bayonetta especially really felt like it wasn't built up to naturally, like if it was clearly their 'time to die' that would make a little more sense, but it really felt out of nowhere

[@mistermister4525]

I'll be honest I think platinum was afraid that the hot female badass would be mistaken for "wokeness" by incel idiots who have never played the game so that's why I felt like they played it safe with bayonetta being cutesy and barely saying anything

[@IceQueen975]

Very possible. Which is ironic because no woke designer would *ever* make Bayonetta. She's too feminine. She ENJOYS male attention and company. She doesn't put other women down. Bayo is the antithesis of woke female characters nowadays.

[@gatzimitk]

@@IceQueen975 I wouldn’t say she „enjoys“ male attention or at least specifically. She doesn’t really care who is watching her. One could argue that she‘s actually tamer when in the presence of men. ( I don‘t particularly agree with that, since the most time we‘ve seen her be near regular men were with Luca or Enzo ) She‘s just an over the top sassy femdom to everyone around regardless who they are (except children and family of course) ,which while not the absolute „wokest“ thing imaginable, is still pretty up there. And also some one liners were directly taken out of drag shows, so take that as you will.

[@roseaphile]

@@IceQueen975 you said this very confidently yet very incorrectly

[@sohaibhamdan2114]

Tbh I'd rather have bayo stay single but I didnt mind her w luca, bayo 3 just forced it a little but it's crazy how a character being straight is a problem these days lmao times changed ig

[@lost_to_time.]

Not gonna lie, Bayonetta 3 just feels like an attempt to copy the DMC 5 effect. Multiple characters with different play styles, younger character with a temper and less confidence, the whole 'passing of the flag' thing. The only big difference is that DMC 5 removed the extra things like map navigation and platforming, while Bayonetta 3 seemed to add MORE gimmicks that complicate things.

[@garfieldkermit]

The platforming especially feels so misguided, the way bayonetta controls just doesn't fit that kind of precise gameplay at all

[@sebthederg5459]

Bro your content is amazing I'm a Happy to be your fiftieth sub!

[@garfieldkermit]

Thank you so much, glad you enjoyed the video!

[@juanRodriguez-ux3xb]

Ppl just don’t care about anything the wizard game proves it and all the others before it by the way this is a great vid

[@garfieldkermit]

Witch game >>> that wizard game any day, glad you enjoyed it!

[@Gomk141]

Jeannes outfit will forever be an eyesore to me

[@vengeancegaming4810]

Personally, I believe that Bayonetta 3 was a pretty good action game. I really like how Bayo felt, and well I was sketched out by the demon summons before the game came out, I came around to loving them when the game launched. Honestly I think the story was passable for an action game and sure it was weaker then the first 2 games it was pretty alright. Of course I say that without mentioning the ending because it is probably one of the worst I have seen in years, I mean, HOW did they think that was a good idea! I just don't get it. Overall, I think the gameplay was great the story was passable, and while it didn't looked the greatest at times, the graphics presents itself in a nice way without impacting my overheating gen 1 switch's performance, keeping a mostly 60 fps even in the high action sections.

[@jaguar4120]

The ending was garbage. I get they were going to a dramatic finale. But Bayonetta dying was awful too watch. It doesn’t make sense. They should have ended the game sooner.

[@Demonskunk]

I’m a filthy Bayo 3 liker. I enjoy Viola’s shake up to the gameplay, I mostly liked the setpieces (the spider is one big frustrating part though.), I liked the enemy design (It felt very distinctly ‘human’ compared to the angels and demons), and I even liked the ending, and Bayo’s shack up with Luka. My biggest frustration, actually, is that I thought we were going to get more expansion on Luka beforehand. I always felt that Luka and Bayo had an affectionate relationship. She dogs on him, but if you pay attention it’s clear she’s fond of him. She teases him BECAUSE she likes him, not in spite of it. I also don’t think her ending with Luka erases her relationship with Jeanne; I can’t see a woman like Bayonetta being a slave to monogamy. Especially not after she danced all over the church. I would have liked a segment playing as Luka and/or Lukawolf to give us more of his perspective, and I would have liked to have felt the game showing their growing/grown relationship. And I’m sort of looking forward to where the Bayo series goes next, if anywhere. I haven’t played Cereza. The price of entry is too steep and the gameplay style looks like it’s going to be frustrating to me (Trying to control two characters in a fight is why I didn’t jive with V in DMCV), so I might end up just watching a playthrough.

[@garfieldkermit]

Tbh the lack of focus on Luka is where I think a lot of the dislike of B3's ending come's from - if he got a bit more camera time like you mentioned, I feel like it would feel a lot more justified and wouldn't have been as controversial. And since I made this I've played and loved Cereza, it's a lot cheaper now and would recommend it if you're willing to give it a try, but I would say try the demo first if you're unsure of the gameplay!

[@bug8992]

I actually like the way bayonetta 3 looks

[@crown0017]

I specifically remember saying to my husband as I reached the credits of bayo 3 "well at least I'll always have bayonetta 2 and my tradition of replaying it every December" the ending of 3 made me upset. Like I liked the game well enough till the ending.

[@mrmeteor64]

You also forgot the part Hideki Kamiya got racist and started calling people foreign insects or something like that.

[@TheCynicalGhost]

Bayonetta 3 is such a fascinating game to me. When the game released, I was very partial to the story because I never really cared about the plot of these games just the gameplay and it didn't really seem any worse than the previous games to me, which I thought weren't good but still relatively enjoyable. The ending I thought was incredibly abrupt but didn't really hate her and Luka getting together because it felt like that's where they were going at least with how many teases there were in the first game. By now though, yeah, I do think the story is the worst of the three but mostly because it tries to do too much while also trying to stick to what it did before and things just don't land by the end, I think the ending is good in a vacuum but taking everything into account is just incredibly weak, and I have grown to understand why many hated it so even if I only think it's bad and can just move past it. The game itself I still love though. Its gameplay is my favorite, its music is wonderful, and I actually really like playing as Viola. In fact, I generally just like Viola a lot as a character and the story would've been better off if they committed to her being the emotional core of the game. Maybe like DMC4 where she's kind of pulling the plot weight while Bayonetta was pulling the cool action stuff and giving her something to do on the side. As well as giving her own levels unlike DMC4. I think the controversy behind it however is what makes me want to distance myself from the franchise for a bit until the next game whenever that'll be. I'm excited to see what they do with Viola to a point but at the same time the fanbase, the lead up, as well as just how strange the game is overall just left me burned out which is a shame because again I absolutely loved Bayonetta 3 despite its problems. A franchise with highs and lows in each entry and one I admire but man it's also just way too controversial for its own good. Edit: Part of me thinks Bayonetta 4 is going to feature Cereza in a pretty decent role to kind of write the wrongs of Bayonetta 3 since Kamiya said a future game will come off as "backpedaling" even while he claims it isn't even though it definitely is. lol Kind of see a Yakuza 7/potentially 8 thing going on with Bayonetta 4 but only time will tell. Never really cared about the plots of these games as I said, but I do want to see if it can get even dumber to a point. lmao

[@garfieldkermit]

I do think it's kind of funny how the Bayonetta franchise can't seem but help get embroiled in controversy, but honestly it's kind of camp at this point. I think you hit the nail on the head with how the story tries to do so much, and in the end, that's why the ending felt to abrupt since no storyline got time to breathe!

[@scroptels]

Boy what a mess this was, unfortunate that the game didn't turn out so good but it happens, I do hope we can still get Cereza in future bayonetta games because I'll always love her (regardless of sexuality or gender). I do look forward to Lost Demon, I think i might enjoy it, though not gonna get it on release 'cause i don't do that. Anyway your videos are great! I've enjoyed them since the first one you uploaded. I think they are well structured and concise. So i wouldn't have comments of what to improve, just keep doing what you like.

[@garfieldkermit]

To be fair I think the new CatLD trailer makes it look a lot better so I'm a lot more hopeful now for the gameplay but I'm still shocked by the price! But thank you so much for the support I really appreciate it!!! :D

[@KuriaruisBetterThanU]

its been practically confirmed that cereza is coming back for more games so :D

[@garfieldkermit]

​@@KuriaruisBetterThanU really? Where did they say that? Not that I doubt you lol I just want this good news lmao

[@KuriaruisBetterThanU]

@@garfieldkermit There was like a game awards thingy or something I forgot what it was but a platinum representative said something along the lines of "We hope you enjoy CEREZA's next adventures as much as we do" (they didn't say 'viola' or 'bayonetta') Also iirc Kamiya himself tweeted something abt how Cereza is still gonna be the main focus and viola is a side character

[@crosseyedbear69]

Isn't jeane and Bayonetta's relationship that of sister's or best friends? Like I personally think Bayonetta could be bi

[@sainttan]

"I" believe Bayonetta is pansexual (sexually or romantically attracted to people regardless of their sex or gender); she's promiscuous (having or characterized by many transient sexual relationships - Google Dictionary) and comfortable in her own body. Her ending up with Luka is a given, especially since it's been built up since the 1st game, young Cereza is attached to him, evident that Bayonetta still likes lollipops to this day. When Luka is in screen with her, they have this tension, either for humor or flirting. Her undermining Luka is just her mischievous way of playfully flirting with him. And when she found out who the monster creature (Strider) was, she stop her self from slaying him, and believe in Viola that she can save him. As I've said Bayonetta isn't straight, she just happens to fall for Luka and just admitted it by the end of the chapter. And based from Rodin the two are OK despite being trapped in Inferno, meaning the two are still together. Not every one has to be LGBTQ ending (especially this game), just because they're not straight, Bayonetta chose Luka because she loves him. It her choice, (despite being the writers, it is technically her) as fans who are against it, should just get over it and move on and be happy for Cereza.

[@drecatwolfuwu7948]

bayo deserves better. I played through 3, and though it was fun, my one gripe is that her sassy personality was really dumbed down. I blame Nintendo , because they clearly can't handle such a unique character.

[@garfieldkermit]

Barely getting to hear her speak in 3 really felt like a downgrade!

[@vadandrumist1670]

Now that Cereza and the Lost Demon has come out, what are your thoughts on it? As someone who hated B3's story I haven't bothered experiencing the side game myself, but from what I hear there's an old face in the Jeanne section which might have importance to the series' continuation. Not that that means much if you're like me and think Bayonetta should just be rebooted to create a firmer foundation (no time travel/multiverses, concrete rules for magic and all related, and more witches and sages).

[@garfieldkermit]

I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but it looks a lot better than the teaser and first trailer let on (that was all that was out when I made this) so I'm not honestly a lot more positive on it. I'm tempted to play since I do love the art style though and if it improves 3 by fixing the story then it might be worth it!

[@vadandrumist1670]

@@garfieldkermit Fixing B3's story, not sure that's possible. After all the worst parts are pretty enclosed. They can try and justify Luka after the fact, but that doesn't change the characterization (or lack there of) in B3 for him or any other characters. Not to mention the setting is itself broken due to the multiverse, which once established can only be "fixed" by being ignored or undone. To explain, six Bayonettas died in B3, and my care is next to zero because my investment is next to zero because they were all *a* Bayonetta rather than *the* Bayonetta. Even for Lost Demon we can only guess which Bayonetta this one is, and it's entirely possible it isn't one we know at all. Curious though, what do you think of the aesthetic changes in B3? Admittedly a low-key controversy, but I'd say it's undeniable that they distanced Bayonetta as much as possible from her defining hair aesthetic. The naive mode is one thing, but the hair aesthetics have been completely removed from the summoned demons, every other witch aside from B3 Bayo and returning B1&2 all wear non-hair outfits, and wicked weaves/beast within are replaced by the non-hair demonic transformations. Considering Viola's non-hair summon system on top of all this and I wonder if they will actually do away with it entirely in the future.

[@garfieldkermit]

@@vadandrumist1670 Yeah the aesthetic changes clearly had some thought behind them, but I'm generally over the multiverse plot device being used as a justification for a lack of aesthetic cohesion. It's a shame since a lot of the choices made with how b3 looks are good, but I kinda wish they committed a little more yk?

[@UmbraOshawott]

Personally I don’t really care about the ending of bayonetta 3 because I don’t really play games for the story I do it for the gameplay, I also don’t care if bayonetta is homo or heterosexual or anything else, it really doesn’t matter to me. I just think people should just calm down and be happy there was a 3rd game at all. Side note: I am a newcomer to bayonetta and have only played 2 and 3(bayonetta 2 is the better game).

[@jaguar4120]

Bayonetta 2 was better because the developers that did Bayonetta 1 were the same for Bayonetta 2. They had passion for the series. Bayonetta 3 key developers from the previous titles left platinum games in the middle of the development for Bayonetta 3.

[@darkrobsl]

Play bayo 1 and you Will change the BEST to 1

[@ammynaten8392]

Maybe there is something wrong with me but I actually loved the story, the only thing I ever found dissatisfactory is how every multiverse Bayonetta died, which I get was absolutely necessary to drive the plot, but it left it predictable, and cut these potentially deep and cool characters stories shut. I would like to learn more about Tokyo Bayonetta and her relationship with her Jeanne, so I can tell just how much her death meant, or what the china Bayonetta thinks about her army, does she see them as disposable? Comrades? How much did she care for them? Other than that I find the story to be sweet, and retains enough of the original characters quality to be enjoyable, and the ending left me really sad but never dissatisfied, which is a win for Bayonetta, because I almost NEVER Imagined I would like a story where every version of the main character we learn to know and love dies... But I actually did, and given I lost my mom pretty recently, March 24 of 2022, I could really feel for viola, and given how annoying I thought her segments were, and how cringy I thought she was, really helped me to like her character more, especially now that she is Bayonetta. Overall, I am satisfied, and if your not, that's okay, I just wanted to share how I felt with everyone. I also don't like the idea of people hating the ending because Bayonetta was straight, because it feels kind of petty. Maybe the Bayonetta from the first two multiverses were lesbians, after those were the games Bayonetta had chemistry with Jeanne, not the third one. However the argument that Bayonetta and Lukas relationship materialized isn't fully true. Was it rushed? Hell yeah it was, but it was very clear to me experiencing the story of Bayonetta that Luka and Bayonetta didn't just care out of nowhere, it just started and ended in one game which is abrupt, but there's enough there to see a developing relationship, but only if you look to see it. Most fans expected her to end up with Jeanne, so they ignored the parts she shared with Luka, and sense they more or less ignored them, they essentially treated them as though they didn't exist. That's my 2 cents anyways

[@garfieldkermit]

It's nice to see some representation for people who like the story of 3, and i can see how that connection you have with the subject matter would make it more personal! Even if most people don't like the story, I'm glad you were able to!!

[@wisuslara1199]

25:46 I don’t get it, please, someone explain

[@Kiddo_williams]

Bayonetta 3 story was horrible and made zero sense. Viola is a horrible character and I will not buy the 4th game if cereza is not back. They killed off Jeanne who would’ve been a better lover than Luka who has no chemistry with bayonetta. Then this cereza just stands around while watching all her other versions die she just shoots her guns at the enemy like you literally fought gods and that’s all you do. The writing is ridiculous and pathetic and the fact she can’t handle singularity just doesn’t add up.

[@IdiocracyWorldTour7774]

FACTS i will NOT buy Bayo4 if Manly Viola is leading.

[@alexdoesthings23]

the game came out, i wonder how youll feel about it

[@garfieldkermit]

Haven' got around to playing it yet, but I'll most likely make a follow up at some point :)

[@nikomint4894]

I love every of the 3 games Luka and bayonetta hade a relationship since the first game lol I realy dont care if she is straight or not. There where never any romantic scenes between bayonetta and jeane. Both endings would be fine with me

[@SparktehFox]

People are really acting like there was NOTHING behind Luka and Bayonetta? That's just choosing to ignore what's on screen in favor of your own ship. I don't deny the chemistry between Bayonetta and Jean, but acting like there wasn't any chemistry with Luka, or that Bayonetta can only be a lesbian and nothing in-between is asinine.

[@GhostwalkerSparrow]

Honestly I still go back and play bayonetta 1 from time to time, but 3? Nah one playthrough is enough for me...

[@barnabydoesart_]

Let’s hope that people keep badly reviewing Bayonetta so they go back to original

[@IdiocracyWorldTour7774]

FACTS Bayo 3 is pure TRASH

[@drewhaynes1874]

people dont realize b3 is different than the og continuity, b3 is a different bayonetta varient. i dont like the bayo luka ship but it makes sense that theres a universe out there a luka and bayonetta get together. kamiya and co had several to say about bayonetta and jeanne in the past games from jeanne calling bayo her sleeping beauty in b1 to bayo legit checking out jeannes a** and offering a wake up kiss to Jeanne to lukas in game journal straight up saying that jeanne and bayo were lovers. if you want bi/lesbian bayo play the original 2 games as that one is... luka bayo shippers have b3. eyes of bayo 3 kamiya confirms he knew thered be discourse with Luka and the new direction The original bayo ended with 2, bayo 3 is a reboot... shes not even the bayo from the first 2 games and gotten killed off for another character who was given the bayo title by dark eve who actually wasn't actually color my world bayo... Dark eve was another variant

[@Mikairium]

its a multiverse problem honestly. if you say "bayo 3" is "different" than bayo, then is it bayo or not 😭😭😭😭 like i dont get it

[@spookyscary6400]

it gets mentioned in game that bayo and luka are "destined" to be with each other in Every universe. that's why the pair get called arch-eve and arch-adam. that's what the lyrics of Al FIne, the main battle theme, are about. It is a really, Really stupid thing to do, but the writing in 3 sorta invalidates pretty much any other interpretation of bayo's character and retroactively undoes some of her dedvelopment in the other games. this is one of the reasons why so many people have Problems with the game's narrative

[@draconicfeline6177]

That's so gross, leave out this destiny. If she chooses luka, good for her, but if it's some destiny bullshit... That's not very bayonetta@@spookyscary6400

[@TombRaider_Remastered]

Bayonetta 3 doesn’t star our Bayonetta (witch with discerning eyes) she only makes a very very brief appearance at the end. You guys are STILL discussing and entirely different Bayonetta. Bayonetta and little cereza are very VERY different characters 😭. The witch with discerning eyed timeline im pretty sure is over. Her story was just 1 and 2 and kamiya already stated her and Jeanne are in a relationship. 3’s story is little Cereza And Bayonetta origins we have to wait and see which Bayonetta’s story this one belongs two. It could either be little Cereza or Bayonetta or possibly another multiverse bayo.

[@TombRaider_Remastered]

I will say though people who didn’t catch all the hints that Bayonetta and Jeanne are a couple in the first two games are pretty dumb. It’s beyond obvious Jeanne is Bayonetta’s gf (possibly even wife but that’s just my speculation)

[@meldrickedwards1892]

@@TombRaider_Remastered Nah.

[@TombRaider_Remastered]

@@meldrickedwards1892 there is nothing to say “nah” about its literally confirmed Bayonetta 3 is little Cereza from 1 all grown up. Also Bayonetta origins confirms this as well lmao

[@crashb800]

Ok, so this is coming from a person who hasn’t played the games, and I’m looking almost entirely at the video clip from 20:09 in the video till about 5 seconds later, but did Platinum somehow make Bayonetta, literally f*#king Bayonetta, a sub?!?!?!? I say this because the way the physical contact plays out between the two characters in this clip implies Luka as the more sexually dominant character. It seems to have the same issue of most depictions of more sexually dominant women where people are willing to portray women as sexually dominant as long as a couple of women can feel sexually empowered, or more likely, a rather specific group of men (admittedly this includes me) can feel incredibly horny. Of course, she has to go back to being a submissive women the moment she’s in a serious relationship because god forbid we have a relationship between a man and a woman where the woman leads and it’s seen as actually romantic and not over-sexualized. I’m also annoyed because the relationship with Luka seems to play into this idea that a man has to be sexually and romantically dominant to be taken seriously both sexually and romantically. It should also be mentioned that very arguably the main romantic interest should’ve been Jeanne, but I still think my previous statement still applies regardless of that. Again, I don’t think a male/female relationship where the man leads in said relationship is a problem except the woman is F*#KING BAYONETTA! Of course, I’m getting this out of literally 5 seconds of video footage, so the entire take could be wrong because I haven’t played any of the games, but what I saw looks incredibly heteronormative.

[@valence6023]

AceStarThe3rd put it quite eloquently during his twitch stream: "Wait... maybe Hellena Taylor was right."

[@Amber_xo_133]

Helena’s Bayonetta voice is better

[@demetricsmith471]

The video was amazing. I am playing the game for the first time and I don't think the spoilers will have any impact on my playthrough. I do completely agree with the opinions about the enemy design. The enemies are far less interesting this time around. Do any of the enemies speak? The Angel's voices were a large part of characters. I don't think that I have heard any enemies 🤔

[@jaguar4120]

Bayonetta 3 is good not great. The story was a huge disappointment and downright garbage. The only thing that was great was the gameplay. Bayonetta 3 was definitely watered down by a lot and lost a lot of personality. I’m sure the development cycle was hell. Bayonetta herself was dull or boring thought out the game. She was oddly silent during cutscenes. My point the whole game was a mess! 😮

[@demetricsmith471]

@@jaguar4120 WOW!😱

[@Esmeyippie]

Viola being Cereza's Daughter is the stupidest thing ever done in this franchise like at all. If it's a multiverse why can't you just make Viola from a Multiverse without her having to be closely related to Cereza,Cereza could have very well been like a not-so-distant ancestor. Or she could have just not been related at all! In fact I would have enjoyed Viola had she Cereza and Jeanne been the main trio since that would have provided a bigger way to expand upon and ENJOY their characters

[@jaguar4120]

Exactly Viola as a character is annoying she never did anything to the story other than her in the way.

[@MabuseXX]

Sorry, but this is idiotic......the game is more than a voice actor. Hundreds of people had worked on the game....and the game would perfectly run without any voice-over. And why is nobody talking about the real heavy lifters behind the curtain: the coders, the gfx artists, the level designers and so on. The voice acting is a very small part of the game development, it's more the cherry on top.....and it's completly irrelevant for the game development. To make such a hush about an voice actor, but ignoring the really harsh conditions of the real heavy lifters, is absurd. 9:22

[@draconicfeline6177]

I'm not a fan of the aesthetics of the enemy designs here.

[@draconicfeline6177]

And the boring dancing summons, nothing fun like the Joy dance off. Even her versus her french version doesn't seem to be having fun...

[@hvensnt]

who's the other voice reading the texts?

[@javaghay]

Me

[@danielsantiago4490]

Honestly, I've grown to generally despise or straight up hate the entirety of the online fandom a little before and especially after the release of 3. As much as I despised the "dudebros" leaving their reactionary vitriol, I witnessed plenty of people on the side of reading Bayo as queer with pretty reactionary vitriol of their own, unironically accusing the game's story and writers of homophobia and name calling anyone that didn't see it their way. It was quite ugly in all directions if you ask me. When it come to this undying (and personally, insufferable) discourse about Bayo's sexuality, I don't get it or see it. I never shiped her with Luka and disliked how the relationship came out of nowhere in 3 but I also never shipped her with Jeanne nor really see it either, they have about the same chemistry with Bayo, really. If anything, Bayo has the most chemistry with Rodin and I don't ship that either. Narratively speaking, romantically pairing Bayonetta up with someone takes away from her character. She's this character that overcomes her sadness and solitude by finding happiness through herself. From 1 to now 3, there's this theme of being at peace with the "inner child" and this giving a sense of completeness with one's self that is able to overcome the deepest of darknesses. It's a sort of übermensch and we see it with the guns "Colour My World" and the lyrics from the very song by Petula Clark, the symbolism behind the bugs on the gun charms, her glasses now having designs that allude to her having both the right and left eye (unity within the self). It's fine to ship characters and all but to me, placing Bayo in an intimate relationship with someone seems insulting to the point of her character and all this online discourse about it just outright rejects the point. As the B from the LGBT, I am beyond tired of looking for representation where I have to squint to see it, either be explicit or in this case, in the game's canon, otherwise, I don't want it. Otherwise, it's subpar representation at best or malicious queer baiting at worst. I could write a whole detailed essay as to why I think this whole discourse is kinda ridiculous but this is not the time or place. On a side note, I couldn't help but notice the Jojo thumbnail that talks about why some people read the show as gay. I think it's worth mentioning (and I've never seen anyone bring it up in these discussions) that there's a cultural gap here, considering that both Jojo and Bayonetta come from Japan and both take heavy inspirations and cues from the world of western fashion and it's industry. One of the more lost-in-translation bits that stand out is that in Japan, people that are interested in extravagant fashions, "sophisticated" tastes or with "sensual" or bombastic behaviors are considered to be eccentric people, not necessarily queer in the lgbt sense. Whereas, in the west, these qualities tend to be read as queer or queer coded. Anyway, that's just one of my many frustrations with the fandom, don't get me started on the mostly terrible takes the fandom has had with the new enemies, I straight up plan to make that the subject of my first KZbin vid. This was a nice recap of the hot messes in the time we've had with 3, oh also, the hack and slash genre fans tore this game a new one too, so that was another sector of the fandom that disagreed on the gameplay being good, so there's that too... god, this whole event and game need an exorcism.

[@garfieldkermit]

In response to your point about representation you have to squint to see, I do think it's important to acknowledge the history of queer subtext and where it has been used tactfully and when there is just queerbaiting. I actually have a source which I quoted in the Jojo video about this between 53:40 and 54:42 which I would recommend checking out since it really made me rethink queer rep and the context it is coming from. And on the note of the queer fashion in Jojo and the cultural gap, it is an important aspect to take into account, but I do think the queerness in Jojo runs a lot deeper than just the fashion. Sorry if this response came across as too defensive, but I wanted to make sure I gave it the attention it deserves since it's clear you've thought this through! Thank you for insightful feedback though and I really hope you end up writing that essay!! :)

[@emi_miku8070]

Now Helena Taylor will always be the best sounding bayonetta, but the new voice actor has the heart Helena didn’t have, the new one did her best and sounded amazing! Helena lied about how much she was getting paid while the new voice actor is such an Angel

[@blacephalussy]

Imo in the other games bayonetta's relationship with luka just wasn't anything serious in the first two games. Especially in the first game she was just toying with him, and besides I think falling in love with someone who would wrinkle up and die when she doesn't even age would just be dumb, so in that way I don't think it makes lots of sense.

[@Mycommentmywords]

Here are my thoughts on if you should have continued to boycott Bayonetta 3. If the whole reason you originally wanted to protest it wanted to protest the game was built solely because you wanted to support Hellena taylor then no. But even tho Hellena Taylor lied about her specific situation. She did being more awareness to the fact that the games industry has really bad practices when it comes to the process of making games (crunch culture). Also to the fact that it is seemingly normalized in the gaming industry for voice actors/actress to not even know the full extent of what how much their talents are going to be used before they get into the studio. Which is way after their contact has been agreed upon and they can no longer legally negotiate. So even with all this context if you still wanted to buy the game then that is your personal decision and I won't judge you one way or the other because this world is really cruel and hard and I like you play games as a primary way to enjoy myself. So what im really saying is nobody needs to justify why they play whatever games they like to play to anyone but themselves. But I would however just ask any reading this comment to use whatever means you have to help bring awareness to groups or organizations that you can verify help advocate for better pay and working conditions in the gaming industry. Because odds are the people watching this video are in no way the upper management of the gaming industry. Nor are we likely involved in the gaming industry at all besides consumers. So all we can do is uplift the people that are involved and activitly working to improve the gaming industries business standards

[@bestianegra3725]

My oc is

[@centurynerdbr]

Controversial as if, to me Bayonetta 3 is one of the best games of 2023 and the best of all of the franchise. People critisizing for the most overreacting, exaggerated and ridiculous reasons. I love this game and never will stop liking and hoping for more great things to come for Bayonetta, like a new future fourth game. Its recent release with Origins was a success, everyone loved. So there is nothing wrong with the game, the only ones with problems are but yourselves.

[@ramboturkey1926]

Bayonetta is straight

[@houragents5490]

People convinced themselves she was gay when she was never intended to be. Bayonetta 3 deserves a sub title and it should be. Bayonetta 3: When fanfiction and head cannon go too far. Awesome game in it's own right thought, Cereza and the Lost Demon was a very nice surprise too. EDIT: Reddit is far from an accurate place to get a general opinion. A lot of people were not surprised that Luka ended up being the romantic interest. They were always hinting towards it, so it's not really all that forced. Bayo x Jeanne is fairly fringe in the grand scheme of things. It really is sad how we have to pretend there's something gravely wrong with this otherwise awesome action game all because of this.

[@stormyskyz7881]

I regret buying Bayonetta 3

[@jaguar4120]

Same and I brought the special edition. 😂

[@swefress]

Because people cannot take that she looks and acts sexy. there. I said it. Move along.

[@IdiocracyWorldTour7774]

FACTS thats why Viola looks Manly and has ZERO Ass on her/it.

[@spaghettiwarrior1573]

The thing I learned from this video is that opposing political views are far more effective at causing mob mentality than lying is. Which is pretty sad, really.

[@bedroombunny9529]

"And were left looking foolish when it turns out she lied" wow, it's almost like you shouldn't just take people at their word or something, what a concept! I feel no sympathy for people who fell for her bullshit. I didn't need to find a reason to backtrack because I was never going to boycott this game in the first place. You don't need to have a degree in mathematics to show that she was full of crap in her original videos. She said Bayonetta had MILLIONS in sales revenue (without merchandise). Basic Multiplication shows that to reach the figure she said each copy of Bayonetta 1 & 2 would need to retail for over $200 each. If someone is willing to lie about something so easy to prove you should doubt anything else they say because it could very likely also be a lie. All I had to so was sit back and wait until more evidence came out and how happy I was to be vindicated (yes I am petty). You're not totally accurate on Viola. You play as her for 3 chapters and one post credit scene and her levels are far shorter than Bayonetta. Her longest level is the one in Cairo and that's still shorter than most (if not all) of Bayonetta's stages. Oh no! Gamer is expected to learn to play a different character. Don't ever touch DMC then because you have to learn how to play upwards of 4 characters in some games. Sorry if I sound rude but I am sick of this idea that games like Bayonetta and DMC need every character to play the same. That was my (and a lot of people's) complaint about Jeanne is that she just feels like Bayonetta with an annoying gimmick. Does it mean you will have to learn new things? Yeah, but it also means that the things you learn can be transferred between characters and it also helps you adapt to learning new things in other games. "Why is this controversial?" Because weird people projected their own fantasies onto a piece of media instead of paying attention to what actually happened in it. This happens all the time so I'm not surprised it eventually happened to Bayonetta. People seem to forget that at early as Bayonetta 1 she showed interest in Luka, the one normal(ish) human who seemed to be able to keep up with her. Throughout the whole game she calls him Chesire to tease him but after they make it to Isla Del Sol she starts calling him Luka. Do I think the relationship was handled well in 3? No, I would have liked to see more of their interactions leading up to it. I was surprised that they went with romance simply because Luka and Cereza barely interacted in this game. Did I think it would happen eventually? Oh yeah, could see it a mile away. What about Bayonetta and Jeanne in 2? I hope I'm not the only that would say that if I had the powers of Bayonetta I too would do what she did to save my best friend and I feel no sexual interest towards her. Honestly, this whole "two people of the same sex were nice to each other, that means they are gay" shit needs to stop. It's fucking creepy. People are allowed to show kindness and love to each other without feeling sexual attraction. Seriously, look at the way these reviewers talk about her ending up with Luka. They aren't upset that it "came out of nowhere" they are upset because they didn't get a lesbian kiss. Why else would they feel the need to bring up "heteronormative" which is something most people haven't even heard of let alone understand. If you want to be mad at anyone blame the idea of "coding" for giving you a false idea of how people create media. The idea of a woman dancing in a sexually explicit way or being dominant while also being extremely beautiful are not "queer" things. Straight men have enjoyed these things for centuries and to deny this is a very strange form of historical revisionism. With that being said, I think it's REALLY easy to understand why "cishet toxic dudebros" don't want Bayonetta associated with anything LGBT. For years they were called sexist for liking these games. They are objectifying women, they are lonely basement dwellers, blah blah blah all the usual buzzwords thrown around by people. Then seemingly, out of fucking nowhere, it's suddenly ok to like this series. I'd be fucking pissed too. You don't get to call people every nasty name under the sun for years and then expect them to accept you when you suddenly want to play with their toys, especially when you said their toys were bad. That isn't how human beings work and we need to stop pretending we don't know this by now. Hindsight is 20/20 so I won't be nasty about Cereza and the Lost Demon. The game is really good. It has an excellent story with polished gameplay. Is it different? Yeah, it's also a spin off which for videogames have always had different gameplay to the originals. People seem to forget but Mario Kart and Mario Party were once spin offs of Super Mario Bros. Funny thing, it was supposed to be released before Bayonetta 3 but they felt that asking people to wait for so many years and then releasing a spin off would be a bad business decision. Something I will say, why were people so quick to assume it was an RPG? To me it always looked like it would be closer to a 3D arcade beat-em-up because of PlatinumGames' history and approach to making games. How do I think people have misinterpreted the ending? Because the ending of Cereza and the Lost Demon adds a little glimmer of hope and that's as much as I will say for people who haven't beaten it. Now remember, Cereza and the Lost Demon was supposed to come out first but that was changed quite late in development of both games. Does it mean that people are wrong for not understanding Kamiya's "divine vision"? No. But it does add another layer to consider. Thank you for coming to my extremely obnoxious TED Talk. Stay in Drugs don't do School. Overall, was a pretty good video. Something you could do to improve your content is work on your diction because sometimes I felt it a little tricky to understand you. It might be the mic or some setting as well I am not a audio producer so I am simply relaying what my ears heard.

[@jaguar4120]

Absolutely agree with all your points.

[@LizardKingRequiem]

There are ppl who like the highly flawed aspects of bayo 3 and thats because there will always be ppl with no taste lmaoo

[@coolstorybro1894]

I'm not sure you understand what constitutes a bad person. Taylor doesn't have problematic views, she has views YOU find problematic. All her "problem" views are on topics that mostly come down to opinions, so just because you think it's bad doesn't make her a bad person. Don't go boiling down complex problems to simple good and bad.

[@javaghay]

wow thats rlly cool im sure everyones glad you commented that

[@coolstorybro1894]

@@javaghay thanks

[@Sanjixoxo]

Bayonetta has NEVER been gay cope mald and seeth 😂

[@ИльяКоптюк-з3ж]

Well , what kind of lesbian goes literally to hell ? But Jeanne is great at everything