Why Big 3 Kpop Companies are Struggling

[@britneymybeloved2979]

I feel so bad for the girls of ITZY you can really tell that they've noticed that their group is going through something akin to an identity crisis but JYP doesn't really seem to care.

[@britneymybeloved2979]

Like just in terms of song quality how did we go from Miss A, Wonder Girls, and older Twice to whatever is happening now.

[@catchingteez]

I feel like big 3 girls groups in general are having an identity crisis. From Itzy to Nmixx to Aespa things are just rough. I'm worried about what's gonna happen to Baby Monster when they debut just because they're so young and the first girl group at YG since Blackpink. Either YG sticks with the usual image and people don't really like it or they take a big risk switching things up. I don't think it will be pretty regardless.

[@pheromone714]

​@@catchingteez I wish they do not go on Y2K concept cuz every group now are almost doing the same(it's so hype)

[@staycsprinkles3777]

they actually wanted to do sneakers originally so it seems JYP lets them have input in the tracks now, but...they need better writers

[@staycsprinkles3777]

@@catchingteez I thought it was a red flag when the rapper in Baby Monster was covering a 10 year old rap by Joyner Lucas. YG is so behind the trends and it shows

[@zhisu2665]

YGE seriously needs to let go of their "starvation" tactic/dungeon, it was ridiculous from day one.

[@catchingteez]

I think it could work under the right circumstances (having a "better than you" image AND having unique and substantial releases each time they come back), but the execution just hasn't been there.

[@zulco99]

Those tactics only works for Blackpink, not for other groups i agree.

[@minhee7]

@@lalitpradhan541 Yeah but i got bored after some time, signing about how you're the best all the time can get you so far. If they had better lyrics I would listen to them like I used to at their debut.

[@iagreewithyou3478]

I don't mind it. What I Iove about them is they don't get dictated by the industry and the fans. They have their perception of time it seems. It's like they're in an alternate timeline from the rest of kpop. Sure, it's not good for them all the time, not many people like waiting, and kpop fans have already been spoiled by other companies with their incessant comebacks and releases. But it's refreshing to me. I love their artists whether they come back regularly or not. If the company gets destroyed, I will still love their artists' music. They're just my style.

[@lalitpradhan541]

@@minhee7 new songs that are in my playlist are "ready for love" " pink venom" . Older songs that will stay forever are " see you later" " really " "as if it's your last " "don't know what to do " " playing with fire " . I don't recommend anyone to listen to only one artist or band . I listen to various artists so I just put songs in my playlist mix. Good balance. N about their MV I just watched when want but I prefer their old performance videos rather than actual MV.

[@silentnight4025]

Another group I would add is Mamamoo, they really help girl group from smaller companies to succeed. They are the only girl group to stand top to top with the girl group from the big 3. They may not have the big of international fan but in Korea they are the most respected group among their senior and highest demand for collaboration

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

Girl's Day did that. GD walked so that Mamamoo could run. I don't see Mamamoo influence newer ggs. I only liked a Mamamoo song that turned out to be a phone ad, and only a few of their newer songs like hip. Mamamoo's music is not the best despite the groups very evident talent. It's a hit or miss for me. Mamamoo isn't the only group from smaller agency that made it big there are countless others. AOA, Sistar, GFriend, oh My Girl, just to name a few. Hyeri from Girl's Day was almost as big as Suzy at that time. She literally started in the Reply Series.

[@selenophile6405]

@@LovelyLittleLillies Random question but do you feel like the music MMM make now vs their talent don't add up Like great vocals but wrong song choice

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

@@selenophile6405 sorry I don't follow Mamamoo closely. Idk what all their new tracks are. I just occasionally listen to new reccs. Their discography for me is a hit miss. Wasn't interested in their music since Starry Night or something. But Illela (however it's called is catchy and great ☺️). Everyone have different tastes.

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

@@selenophile6405 MMM songs that I like are 1cm, Hip, Gogobabe, Illela, woohoo, and Hwasa's Twit. I don't listen to other solo's music bc it's not my taste nor really curious about Solar.

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

@@selenophile6405 my personal problem with Mamamoo is them copying western artists and being raunchy, bringing a certain type of vulgarity to kpop. I know sexi songs always existed. But with some groups there was innocence maintained. Now kpop is turning more raunchy, with Hyolin and Hwasa and rest of MMM leading it. Like the leotards are not my fav look (I hate them on western artists and hate even more in kpop. Too exposed for no reason). I saw the tiktoks with solar getting PR , some were ok some not a fan of

[@niki5923]

i remember a few years ago jyp was called the girlgroup expert and now in this golden age of girlgroups jyp has taken the backseat is baffling to me

[@luizamodestosilva]

hybe's success is due to their subsidiaries system because that's basically smaller companies (with a good investment fund) free and fully dedicated and in control of one maybe two artists only, instead of a bunch of groups under a single general management. bts and txt under bighit, newjeans under adore, lessera under source, enhypen under belift. not to mention their subsidiaries in other countries like hybe japan and hybe america which are independent entities. that's so freaking smart and that's why they're thriving! jyp kinda tries with the divisions thing but they end up all responding to the same higher ups, so it doesnt make a difference in the end.

[@angelf722]

but the difference is Hybe have companys stans. I remember when gfriend moved to hybe they got so much more attention, the irony. Any group that comes out of hybe will do well, somehow, even enhypen despite being unpopular in korea compared to other groups, always get a win. While it took treasure a year to get their first win. Hybe is smart bcs it makes it seems like there is such a thing as Hybe family, when they're all managed seperately, but fans eat anything up

[@Callisto_52Hz]

@@angelf722 are we gonna act like big3 don't have company stans now? yall are getting delusional

[@RainydaysV-i5v]

@@angelf722 When g friends came to HYBE/ bighit was ruling the music market with BTS ( as BTS is the biggest boy band in the world with Biggest fandom) so it's didn't take them much time to get recognised as the world is so focus on BTS and BTS releted things. You can see all the groups who came to HYBE got more bigger than ever. They are doing so well in charts, sells. I am not saying it's all because of BTS but definitely BTS influence help to get them recognition. You wouldn't believe but in 2017- 2018 only bighit was more popular than Big3 company in the world because it was BTS company ( that time only BTS was in HYBE) and got more subscribers and followers than Big3 and bighit sells was 3 time higher than Big3 combined.

[@RainydaysV-i5v]

@@angelf722 It's always big3 who had company stan and help the new artists to get success. But in HYBE cesh they didn't had any company stan because there wasn't any other artists except BTS so how they can be company stan ?? . But maybe now many people is HYBE stan .

[@sonzunaur]

​@@angelf722 This is such a weird comment considering the fact that the whole company stan debacle comes entirely from the Big 3 fanbases. Company stanning is literally one of the main reasons why many 4th Gen groups from said companies even got the general population to even check out their music, but if a smaller company did the same for their artists people wouldn't even bat an eye. The thing you're pointing out is just HYBE being smart and as mentioned in the video, they acquired smaller companies who had to build themselves up from scratch and thus know how to spot talent that actually matters and thus give the current groups under them the same advantages. Don't speak out of your ass just because you're petty lol.

[@laulau.i]

BigHit/ HYBE innovated, the Big 3 got comfortable with their usual formula. Also small companies have less to lose so they’re not afraid to try new things, and in this era, people are looking for something different, but genuine. Just my two cents 😊

[@catchingteez]

Absolutely agree!

[@eileencritchley4630]

Yes people get so bored of copy cats, of following trends ugg be original for fecks sake let these groups find what they like and do it well. If that one genre or a mix of genre's just let them go with it don't tell them they have to be this or that it's just so fake.

[@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma]

@Twice is the Worst Girl Group they don't lol

[@ArgerichStan]

SM’s weird decision to me is extending the whole Kwangya SMCU thing to their ENTIRE company and not just aespa. I really enjoy the camp and fun of it as Aespa’s concept, but as you say it really blurs the lines between them and red velvet and all their other groups

[@yoonsope]

And when your own artists are complaining about being thrown into someone else's concept you should get the damn hint. When MAX Changmin dropped Devil I almost had an out of body experience because the song was so good, and then I heard him sing the word Kwangya... Neither OG Changmin stans nor younger Aespa stans will care for the connection, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR HIS MUSIC.

[@kill3008]

fr just why

[@dco.2209]

​@@yoonsopethe kwangya concept existed before aespa. Aespa just expanded it more

[@MB-ic3ou]

I don't necessarily think the quality of Big 3 Kpop groups has decreased, but rather that non big 3 groups such as Idle, Ive, Stayc, Fifty Fifty etc are amassing major success and popularity. This proves that you can still be successful and make good music despite what company you come from. In the past people would only pay attention to you if you were from a big 3 company but now it doesn't matter what company you're from. So now it just seems like these companies are struggling when in reality they just have more competition and can't get away wit just throwing anything on the table.

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

For all you new fans: 3rd gen kpop was full of smaller company groups who made it to Korean mainstream success. Like Girl's Day was pretty big and Hyeri was a Suzy equivalent. She was all over Korean media. Then there's GFriend/Oh My Girl who've had some iconic hits and AOA who I'm sure was known within the int kpop community of that time. I heard BAP was super big in Korea. They're the group that BTS takes influence from as they're a carbon copy. And Sista went big with Touch My Body and Shake it. There was Infinite, BtoB, and SOOO many 2nd gen cusp groups like Nuest. Jay Park had a solo career that took off despite leaving JYP. And there were even a few khiphop and kindie acts that the int community got into. Like Zion T, Crush, Dok etc you know the people under AOMG. And an indie band I think called Hykoh or something. Oh and one of the biggest singers in Korea, IU, has nothing to do with big 3 I believe. So no, unless you're referring to 2 gen and older, you didn't have to be under big 3 to be noticed or have a chance. I

[@lonesouleil]

ive has kakao money, and kakao is bigger than the big 3 combined lol

[@monimuppet6132]

​@@LovelyLittleLillies Carbon copy? That's a new one 😏

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

@@LovelyLittleLillies Came here to say the same thing. 2nd gen had tons of top groups that weren't Big 3 like T-ara, Brown Eyed Girls, etc. It's never been total domination by those companies, it's just that people are going to pay a bit more attention to their new groups. I feel like the people saying that groups like Ive and StayC are a new development just haven't been following kpop that long, Ive's company already hit gold with Sistar a decade ago. Now I'd say it's "Big 4" with HYBE, that's the only difference.

[@isha356]

@@lonesouleil they maybe from small company but there connection with kakao is big and recently they occupied sm oh lord whats going to happen and kakao is known for writing fake article about other competeive girlgroup of I've like aespa , leeserafim ,new jeans

[@j3t617]

I feel like Itzy is in such a wild place right now because it’s not just that JYP doesn’t know what to do with them, but the fandom is not consistent in what they want from them. After “Not Shy” there were so many people saying they want Itzy to switch up their sound cause the songs all started sounding the same, so they gave us “Mafia” and that change divided the fanbase. Then they gave us “Loco” which sounded more like their old stuff, again that divided the fanbase because there were those that genuinely liked the direction they were going with Mafia. Now Mafia is pretty loved, their performances and insane MAMA stage really helped that. In another attempt to switch it up after a gap we got Sneakers which was another absolute curveball, especially after their hard hitting Japanese release “Voltage.” A huge portion of International fans hated it, but Sneakers was also one of their best charting songs in Korea, so that speaks a lot too. Now “Cheshire” which is good, but you can definitely see they were playing it safe. Also because they tried to ease up on the girls having heavy choreography after some injuries. But from the fans still So many mixed signals of which direction to go with the group. I think they just need to hire someone that can be the sort of visionary behind the group instead of working with different producers for each album. Someone to lead the idea. You can see how well that works for groups like New Jeans and Dreamcatcher. Even like Nmixx, they set up SQU4D which is run by longtime JYPE staff member Lee Jiyoung to handle the vision and it seems like they’re sticking with the producers The Hub for the overall sound.

[@rishika3410]

i love how stray kids is unbothered due to all of this company mess, self producing really does help at times

[@Mahtalliel]

Terrible music lol

[@xoxoizuku]

​@@Mahtallielmaybe to you, but stray kids continues to do amazing! stay mad

[@noydbnoydb9402]

​@@MahtallielTheir records and sales disagree 😏🤷‍♀️

[@aksaandinataa]

​​@@MahtallielTerrible music but always an achievement HAHAHAHA 😜🤟, unlike u HAHAHA atleast they create their own art, Shame on you

[@emely11111]

@@Mahtallieleveryone has different tastes, no need to shit on other people for it! Spread love dude

[@acoulter8913]

I definitely felt Big Hit starting with TXT early despite that early hate train TXT endured(& still dealing with today) paid off in the long run for Them, adversity made the fandom stronger

[@Jimocho531]

Despite the mass fans they got during debut.they stayed in the same place.and gradually they rose organically while proving themselves by hardworking. They are very talented but still there are people who overlook them.

[@shockofthenew]

​@@Jimocho531 Yeah, I'm an ARMY and not a TXT fan (just not my style) but I think it's not fair to say they got a huge privilege from being BTS' junior. They did get a major boost in views for their first MV because ARMY was curious, but those views immediately dropped off once people realised they weren't that similar to BTS. After that they were cursed to always be compared to BTS and be in their shadow. They also got a lot of hate and people generally accusing them of being 'privileged' without the privilege actually being there. I may not be a fan but I respect them for staying strong through that and just slowly building their fanbase and figuring out their direction. I hope they'll last a long time!

[@Jimocho531]

@@shockofthenew I understand you not being a txt fan as their music is very contrasting from bts discographies.

[@shockofthenew]

​@@Jimocho531 Thanks for understanding! It's not that I dislike them, they're one of those groups I keep an eye on since they have something interesting. They're just not quite my style musically, but I would say their music is good quality.

[@matjb]

The way that the Big 3 are currently relying solely based on the fact that they’re the Big 3, is horrible for their longevity in todays market. Smaller companies are really thriving due to the Big 3 not marketing or focusing on musicality. It’s evident their artists are suffering because of this and it’s sad. As someone that has been into K-Pop since 2007, this has been something that has slowly become more evident with new groups debuting from small companies, meanwhile new groups from the big 3 seem almost…mediocre unfortunately.

[@anetasz7759]

I want to rant sooo: YG: People (mostly BLINKS) pay attention to BabyMon because of BlackPink, if they're going to renew their concract and keep the strategy of putting out 1 song a year at best BabyMon will still be getting attention, because some Blinks might look for sth to 'replace' BP for a moment. We will see if it's going to work for YG. JYP: I'm so sad for Itzy, like you said the royal concept photos was not a move, and I seriously thinnk if they did a different photoshoot, 'sneakers' would not get that much hate, bc ppl were expecting royal concept and got kidspop... For NMIXX !!! ISTG, the track itself is LOUDER THAN THE VOCALS, I hear Lily belting but almost like she's standing 5 meters away from the mic... WHY SM: It's the fact that Lee SM himself reached out to Hybe to sell his shares so Kakao doesn't get it, seriously what a circus. SM claiming Hybe will change their artists concept like they themselves didn't put them to some multiverse Kwangya space galaxy planets superpower AI sh*t that could've been exclusive to AESPA and work great for them... About the artists I agree 100% with you

[@catchingteez]

Ooooh! What you said about Lily! That's exactly what it sounds like!!!

[@karlafrancis8471]

Sm didn't want to be acquired by hybe just because it was hybe. By now it should be clear that each label has control over their groups concepts and music so nothing would have changed if sm was under hybe. It was their pride that stopped them and now they're basically under a slave contract with kakao

[@Jimocho531]

@@karlafrancis8471 yeah they were afraid of losing pride.they just told lies in the video of hybe will change their artists. Look at seventeen their songs and concepts didn't get affected by hybe after acquiring.the video was a total circus slandering hybe.

[@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma]

@@karlafrancis8471 yes it's their pride which stopped them and how do you know they signed slave contract ??

[@karlafrancis8471]

@@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma you can see the details of the contract online.

[@wywrd_mtnt]

As a stay, and pretty into what other jype groups are doing, the main issues I've noticed is that they have zero idea how to market. Skz are saved by the fact that they self produce, but every other idol group of theirs (not talking about the bands since idk much) is having an identity crisis with their music recently. They don't know what people like to listen to, they don't know which audience to market their groups to and they don't know how to progress sounds and discographies to feel cohesive and not messy and as if the management threw stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Their mixing as you've said outside of skz where they do it themselves is also incredibly poor lately. You have to wonder what's going on when the same producers doing stuff for them do stuff for other groups and it sounds good. Oh and their creative teams are terrible too with maybe the exception of nmixx. And if you're stray kids or twice you don't even have "vacation" or "break" in your vocabulary, they're being worked to the bone with lacking promotion on both the domestic and international side. For skz you even get your albums unlisted and out of stock for months on end as a treat. Skz are mostly free of the musical identity crisis because of their own efforts, but this comes at the expense of their health, and the company doesn't even have the decency to manage them well for their efforts. I'm subscribing just on how respectful you were to all groups alone! Also the video was really good, I love discussion videos where people aren't toxic, so I'm really excited for more!!

[@cubriffic172]

I follow Xdinary Heroes and they're also one of the few groups under JYP that has had a consistent identity- but once again they are a self-composing group so they know what they want to do and fight for it.

[@wywrd_mtnt]

@@cubriffic172 I'm into them too! they're a band tho so it's kinda expected of them to self produce to some degree at least, for idols it isn't an expectation and it isn't easy to achieve either cause most of the time management pushes back against it

[@yeojeons9337]

bighit def was a threat to the big three for a little while before hybe was a thing, from 2018-2021 when hybe was founded. bts' global success had them floundering and while they definitely didn't compare in the structural ways, like influence on the media, bighits revenues and successes started to over shine them during that time

[@vronji]

currently I think hybe is more successful than the big 3. theyve got bts and seventeen who are kpop staples, and txt, enhyphen, lesserafim, and newjeans are some of the biggest 4th gen groups out there.

[@yeojeons9337]

@@vronji oh for SURRREEEE they’re dominating in pretty much every field. i was just referring to the video where they said bighit couldn’t compete until they became hybe

[@SuhaniPrakash-qd3nl]

​​@@vronjitechnically even justin beiber and ariana are under hybe ..because hybe had bought Ithaca holdings , the entertainment jb and ariana r under..

[@judaisupremacy6125]

Hey, ironically I was recommended your video after watching felt’s SM video lol. Anyways I perfectly agree with everything you said. I only got into this past January but as a business student who’s just looking into k-pop history, the change in the industry landscape is so interesting to see happen in realtime. And you did a great job explaining the business reasons this is happening!

[@catchingteez]

That's so funny! I'm an advertising student who's been into kpop since 2020 so yeah watching the industry change has been fascinating to me. It's nice to find other people interested in this stuff!

[@JonnyBravoZero]

19:27 Yeah, I agree with you. Out of all companies out there today, HYBE is doing things that resonates much harder with listeners in today's music landscape. It's undeniable at this point. Re-investing into their art and music paid dividends in the end for HYBE.

[@jhiaka9888]

18:22 it’s not just they’re on top but they also established and pioneered Kpop to what it is today and that time has passed, but that’s not to say someone couldn’t threaten that (hybe).

[@catchingteez]

Exactly! I consider them to be like the founders of kpop. I just think other companies are starting to stride ahead of them in terms of who is pushing kpop forward creatively now.

[@daerincakes]

People consider hybe in the "big 4" but the big 3 (yg, sm and jyp) are the companies that made kpop, KPOP! The amount of times I have to type this is unprecedented, thank you for agreeing with me lol :)

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

​@@daerincakes too many new fans here. Even in the small population, highly concentrated kpop market in Korea countless groups from smaller companies reached big fame (mainstream fame in Korea and recognizability within the kpop fandom). Groups like BtoB, BAP, AOA, Sister, Girl's Day. It's nothing new. Hybe might change kpop and big 3 or maybe they won'. The only way Big Hit could even grow for any substantial influence is by acquiring already established groups rather than launching their own. New Jeans is big but they're literally under Ador they're not a BigHit group. BigHit only gets association through Hybe. Seventeen was successful and established ever since clap, Mansae, Don't Wanna Cry and their success have nothing to do with Hybe. Big Hit only has BTS and TXT under them and idk what other groups. Their reach is exaggerated. Maybe that's why Hybe is buying all these stakes in other companies. Funny how fans will say Hybe is overtaking big 3 or is a threat yet Hybe intends to increase revenues through work and talent that big 3 debuted. Make it make sense 😂

[@ShayGamerD3]

Very interesting and insightful commentary! I agree 100% that big three are unprepared for a global market. In fact, K-Pop is still at the beginning of its global popularity, and in time I believe it will even grow bigger. And international labels haven't started competing with Korean labels in K-Pop area yet, and nothing prevents them from starting their own K-Pop groups. K/DA is a very good example that you can make a virtual group entirely based in the U.S. piggybacking on the entire K-Pop and Korean wave phenomenon, and they haven't attracted more popularity only because Riot is doing that to promote League of Legends, not hitting global music market: and K/DA production value might be even better than most of K-Pop, as Riot composers and music producers are amazing. And I completely agree that international fans do not care about big 3, in the West you follow an artist because you like their music, not because you like their label.

[@thamys2106]

i think stray kids and xdinary heroes are currently the only consistent groups in jyp in terms of concept and music production quality, but both are self produced so we can't really group them with the rest

[@catchingteez]

I didn't know xdinary heroes were self-produced but that makes sense now that you say it. Their concept has the same kind of quirkiness as Itzy's but managed better, so it doesn't feel quite as frantic.

[@thamys2106]

@@catchingteez i just wish jyp would manage them better cause the way they promote them is too similar to how groups are promoted, even tho they are a band. not to mention the fact that after their debut there was like 4 months where they released ZERO content, like fr zero they weren't even uploading to instagram

[@betxengi5388]

JYPE had the treasure that was Day6, but they never let them grow to a global scale. I don't think Xindary Heroes can escape the same destiny

[@betxengi5388]

Imo Twice is the first group that keeps JYPE going at the moment because they have a stable fandom. The second is the Skz, who also have a pretty steady fandom. However, JYPE does not intervene in their music, so they managed to hold on. If they hadn't spoiled itzy and bet on Nmixx, which they didn't succeed with, they would be much richer now. Itzy was at the top for 4th gen ggs and still would be if JYPE have known how to manage them and produce quality music

[@j3t617]

@@thamys2106 JYP is promoting Xdinary Heroes as idols, which is miles better than the way they were promoting DAY6 as a rock band, which was no promotion at all. It seems like the reason they took a hiatus is cause they needed to bond better as a band. They probably took that time to really get better at communicating, lyric writing, and composition. I personally think JYP probably rushed the gun with debuting them cause they needed a band the year DAY6 was going on hiatus.

[@ForeverForty]

To add, despite BTS coming from a tiny company, the music and quality is really there. And then, they paired it with their utilization of social media that really sets them apart. They worked on the resources that doesn't cost anything but will have a farther reach. (e.g. Bangtan Bombs in YT, twitter, fan cafe etc.). I remember when kpop groups started opening Twitter accounts (yes, I refuse to call it X - it's Twitter forever lol ) after BTS won Best Social Artist in the BBMAs. "Rooting for the underdog" can only go so much and will reach its limits but passion, talent, strategy, good team, unique charm, some luck and actually - destiny. That's what makes "A BTS". Something that the Big 3, especially SM is trying to replicate.

[@1mpurit1ez]

Truthfully, the influence of Big 3 and the success of their groups is inevitable, but it’s undeniable that they are all falling behind. Smaller companies are putting more emphasis on music quality for exchange of quantity. It feels like Big 3 groups put out music just to put out music sometimes, but there’s nothing deeper than that. I considered myself a SM stan for a long time, I loved groups like SHINee and EXO, but they’ve (SM) really lost their way. JYP seems to be doing something different with NMIXX now, but people are saying that it strays from their initial concept and I have to agree. I hope JYP has more care and sincerity when it comes to ITZY’s releases because for one of the biggest 4th gen girl groups, their recent TTs have been subpar. YG has been on a slow decline for a long time and truthfully, they don’t seem to care for this. They do need to debut more groups/artists because trainees are not going to be satisfied with training a couple of more years on top of the years they’ve already trained. They’ve already lost iKON, who is to say they won’t lose their other artists soon too? I feel like they don’t plan for the future of the company until the very last minute. HYBE and many other companies have better management, better music quality, and are able to adapt much quicker to the ever changing tastes of the general public-something that the Big 3 appears to be struggling with. I do not think the influence of the Big 3 groups will ever change, but I do think that they have vastly more competition than ever, whether it’s concept, music, etc. especially when it comes to the girl group scene.

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

I disagree. I don't think big 3 are falling behind. I though Aespa was. Small bc at first they didn't receive as much attention but their fandom continues to grow and Aespa music quality is good imo. I could be wrong but Aespa comes off the stronger gen 4 girl group than Itzy. Idk what their fandom size is but recent Itzy music quality went down ever since sneakers, no? Me I'm not a MITM person. Hybe has a big international market - that's where you see their influence. But frankly big 3 focus on local market over international market first and foremost. Just because NJ is getting as big as BTS overseas doesn't mean big 3 girl groups are losing ground and influence just bc you don't see them all over western music charts. Why do you think smaller company groups had to go into int market in the first place (BTS toured in US at kkon as soon as they debuted). Because big 3 has such a chokehold on local Korean market. Plus JYP and SM fans seem to be quieter consumer who just quietly enjoy the music in comparison to Hybe and YG who have a loud, verbal presence on the internet.

[@narsis273]

​@@LovelyLittleLillies newjeans actually became big in their own local market compared to international and no the big 3 aren't only focused on local market. With BP from YG obviously they're more successful on the international market. Just beacause they're called big 3 doesn't mean they won't fall behind they already did and mostly consuming their brand's name. In 4th gen both g-idle and itzy look more successful and g-idle isn't even a big 3 group

[@ebony7177]

@@LovelyLittleLillies Just looking at last year, small companies were leading the charge for ggs. Look at who had the big songs: G-Idle with Tomboy and Nxde, Ive with love dive and eleven, leserrifim with fearless and anti fragile and NJ with hype boy and attention. Those weren't big Internationally, they took over the local charts. At the awards last year where were your Twice, Red Velvet, Aespa and Black Pink? G-Idle and Ive were fighting for all the gg awards. Also Big 3 DOES focus on International, BP has almost abandoned local for International. Big 3 doesn't have the same prestige as before. Their groups still have that privilege but it isn't as unbreakable as before IMO. What used to be a guarantee over the years now has started to become a role of the dice.

[@CloneCommando525]

Could you maybe elaborate on in what way do you think SHINee lost their way? As someone who got into them in 2022, that's the first time I see someone saying this about them - usually I see people praising them for the opposite, so it's really interesting what's your reasoning behind this.

[@1mpurit1ez]

@@CloneCommando525 Sorry for not clarifying! I didn’t mean SHINee or EXO lost their way. I meant SM as a company. I thought I made it clear enough but realize how it could be interpreted now. 😊

[@-megaera9628]

Just saw this on my recommendation! Love your voice btw. Just want to share my thoughts: For YG: Idk man, they had been messy. AKMU is the only YG artist i am confident in following. Looking forward to Baemon and Treasure to propel up tho. For JYP: Idk why but JYPE rly needs to bring Itzy's Japanese releases, Blah Blah and Voltage, in their main Korean comebacks which i s much more cohesive with their earlier releases. Nmixx's new comeback rly got the group much more positive attention. I hope in the future, they would continue to showcase the girls' voices (that stage practice was great!). The only thing is their creative direction. Still kind of wonky imo, and I hope it will get better from there. NiZiU is still getting strong in the Japanese market, the complaint I only see to the fans is their local promotion. I hope the members could participate in local variety shows. SM: Sigh, idk what to say. It was a mess. I just hope the quality of the music of their artists will stay good. They also had plans to debut more groups in the future, including a girl band i think? I just hope they could balance the promotions because they had a bad history of promoting girl groups simultaneously. G.O.T. the Beat... Man, it was a disappointment to say at least. I wish a successful Aespa comeback next.

[@catchingteez]

Aw thanks for the compliment! Treasure has definitely been on the rise and they have a lot of potential so I hope YG does good by them. I didn't even think about Itzy's Japanese stuff but you are so right. Nmixx feels like they're starting to even out a bit brand-wise after the last comeback and NiZiU has started doing more in Korea, so hopefully they can find more success. Yeah SM is...something. I really hope Aespa gets the kind of music and content they deserve.

[@haleyhutchinson8302]

I don’t keep up with SM so can’t say anything about that company. JYP I think just needs to figure out what that company wants to do. ITZY went from be the top 4gen girl group to the 4gen girl group that people are starting question. JYP is doing those girls wrong. YG main issue is management. If that company can start managing that groups correctly they would be fine. They treat their girl groups badly, Have one comeback a year and have little promo. YG can be the top Big3 company if they change their ways…but YG I feel like that company likes to take the easy way out. Let all the groups (specifically BlackPink and soon BabyMonster) do all the work. YG wants to keep this 1 comeback a year thing but it might not work on every group. Some people forget that Treasure is even a group under YG. When most people hear YG they will think 2ne1, BigBang and BlackPink (and I guess BabyMonster). As much as I don’t like Hybe, they run the game right now, which make the Big3 look small in comparison.

[@emperesque1218]

Loved the video and I agree with you. Honestly, I think the Big 3 have been poorly managed for a long time, with the exception of JYP with Twice/Stray Kids. With Hybe actually being managed competently, their poor management is catching up to them. YG has always been terrible towards their female artists, and now they're also pretty terrible for their male artists. SM can't seem to balance their acts, and is overall a dumpster fire rn. I feel bad for NCT and Aespa. JYP has fumbled almost all of their groups except Twice and Stray Kids, but even then, the new direction Twice is going is shaky. Big 3 company stans can hate Hybe all they want, but Hybe's rise has forced the Big 3 to sit up and try, rather than lay in their own complacent poor management.

[@catchingteez]

That's interesting, saying that the Big 3 were never great at management. I can't speak for older kpop groups since I only got into kpop in 2020, but it's evident that they don't know how to handle the international market. As their audience gets bigger, their management gets more out of hand.

[@emperesque1218]

@@catchingteez As someone that got into Kpop back into 2015, I feel like the Big 3 have always had management problems. The YG Dungeon has always been a big issue, and they've always treated their female artists and trainees like shit. SM has always been obsessed with success in China and creating a male version of Morning Musume (big group with a revolving door of members as they "graduate") and you can see they tried it with Suju, EXO, and now, NCT, all of which failed to executing the "revolving door" concept or get big in China, and was to their groups' detriment. JYP has always been a bit too fixated on success in the western market. He pushed Wonder Girls at the peak of their popular to the west to try and make them popular there, only for them to inevitably fail because there was no demand back then and end up on a 3 year hiatus. Miss A became Suzy and The Others, Got7 in general, etc. Sorry for the rant lol. Just felt the need to explain myself.

[@anita892]

Pretty sure Stray Kids is working because 3racha handle all the music production themselves. I suspect they wouldn't be going quite as well if JYP was handing all of that (see Got7 and their musical ups and downs).

[@AwakeningWings]

@@emperesque1218 I can agree to this. I've been listening to Kpop since 2009 and the management wasn't great then either. Now, it's all falling apart; all three companies. Besides Stray Kids, I don't know what concepts and sound the other groups have any more or are going for. SM with their marvel universe concepts and YG not debuting any groups or releasing quality music. It's like they lost their aim in the concepts and sounds for each group. It's a disaster. We're just out here watching all this unfold.

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

​​@@emperesque1218 EXO WAS big in China what are you talking about? At their hight I saw so many fans online and I was barely into kpop at that time. How do you think EXO got so rich? It's after Chinese members started leaving and China blocked kpop that SM had to retire their Chinese expansion. Maybe China felt threatened that Korean pop culture was taking over. That's why they started creating their own dramas that are similar to kdramas in fashion. And to this day they're still attempting to make a cpop idol group (no success overseas). If you look at all past scandals and tabloid coverage you'll see that when to comes to kpop and idol companies majority lacks management. There's no we'll run management and company at all, they all have flaws. And don't say Big Hit bc it's bs. They overworked BTS at the start of their western fame by flying them to US and back to Korea for local schedules back and forth. Claiming to give them a vacation but handling a camera for them to film. A variety show content. Raising price of merch, etc. There's isn't one known company that treats their group as well and manages their comebacks with zero issue.

[@pidgeongguk8818]

I really loved this video! I was actually so disappointed when it came to an end, I just wanted more

[@catchingteez]

Thank you! I've got another video coming later this week, so you can look forward to that!

[@ATWTMVTVFTVSGAVRALPS]

I agree with this because the rising global popularity of groups from smaller labels (such as Fifty Fifty) proves your point.

[@status101-danielho6]

As a recent casual fan of K-pop (unusual considering I'm a 50-something), I found my content through grassroot discovery rather than Big Music. It started with Standing Egg, and eventually morphed into using 1theK/Genie/Super Sound Bugs plus the labels themselves to find music. It must be discouraging to independents to release great music, just to have viewer counts in the hundreds and even the tens. I hope they realize that an appreciative audience like us is out there if they just do their own thing on their own terms.

[@mrjackpots1326]

Smaller companies with their small staffs and low overhead had a big advantage during Covid since they could much more easily replace touring with livestream concerts. Whereas a group like Twice who toured in 40,000 seat domes could not make up that lost revenue with livestream.

[@elizabethramirez2232]

I remember when I first got into k-pop and before BTS won the BBMAs, the big three were literally powerhouses literally everything was SM, JYP, and YG especially with groups like EXO, GOT7, NCT, Blackpink, Twice, and Red Velvet and many more who were in their prime/entering their prime. Thanks to the global success of BTS and other contributing groups, smaller companies were able to reach a level of success that would have been unattainable before because these companies realized there is more than just the Korean market (which you mentioned in your dreamcatcher video). Many people try to diminish it, but fans, especially for smaller groups and companies, are so important in k-pop since it really allows a group to continue being active and so much more. I think a group that is one example of this is LOONA. I can see the big three trying to achieve globalization, especially JYPE. I think they tried expanding their Asian market at first with BOYSTORY and NiziU, but I don’t know much about either group and how they are doing in terms of success. And now, instead of focusing on the global success of their current groups, JYPE debuted VCHA. This is interesting to me, but it is not surprising especially with the increase in foreign members, aside from the usual foreign categories, in groups and an increase in popularity with groups who have foreign members like Black Swan. I’m honestly excited for VCHA and can’t wait to see what JYPE does with the group. HYBE is doing a similar thing with Dream Academy and I honestly won’t be surprised if SM and YG start doing the same. I think this also has to do with globalization and more people wanting to go through the k-pop process. I loved the video and I pretty much agreed with what you said! I’m honestly loving k-pop as of now and can’t wait to see what happens in the future of k-pop. I’m not sure if you’ve done it yet, but a video on your thoughts about the fifth generation (and whether you think it should’ve started sooner or later) would be interesting! Honestly, in my opinion, I believe it should’ve started sooner. Many people argue that the generation changes after a certain amount of years have passed, but I think it all deals with the k-pop climate. K-pop generations, in my eyes, are just like trends: trends first spanned numerous years, but nowadays a trend can last a day. K-pop has grown so much and it’s kind of crazy to that (G)I-DLE and Newjeans are in the same generation lol. That’s all for my “little” splurge.

[@pheromone714]

Every group now is shaken because of Newjeans Y2K concept like everyone wants to do the same and leads to loss their own original identity

[@catchingteez]

Agreed. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this level of trend chasing in the girl group sphere.

[@angelf722]

@@catchingteez among smaller companies yes, but i feel like big 3 companies have pride and still maintain their own identity. Like aespa isn't changing their futuristic concept, nmixx still has mixxpop sounds, and i think babymonster will go for hiphop. Big 3 companies r still making good music, but by their own standards, whereas Hybe gives general public what they want and so it seems like they're overshadowing big 3

[@jorrdan.]

@@angelf722 love me like this is a complete departure from the mixx concept though? no change up in that song whatsoever and the fits are def y2k, which isnt a bad thing but yeah

[@lailiecarrillo]

@@angelf722 nmixx’s mixxpop is literally just aespa’s experimental concept (like next level and savage). jyp is known for coping and bandwagon concepts and not really doing it well (like O.O and dice). but I hope jyp will develop a distinct sound for nmixx (and itzy) because they are the most well rounded and talented/skilled group in all of 4th gen. love me like this was really good.

[@krizismenya2171]

​@@catchingteez well ofc you didn't, you came to kpop in 2020 as you said yourself

[@terrimnida]

Loved what you said. Especially the point on globalization, a part of me wonders what would happen to these groups long term? I keep hearing the key to longevity is Korean GP support.

[@user-ib1is7ny7r]

the problem with jyp is that they NEVER come up with something original for their groups (itzy initially WAS as original as they could get… but they started having an identity crisis soon)

[@ventibean]

I like that the Big 3 are getting scared tbh. It's allowing a lot more diversity in the industry because a lot of baby groups are popping up from unknown or small labels and taking the industry by storm. As a veteran KPOP enjoyer, I went from watching the big 3 always having the top GG and BG spots (snsd vs 2ne1 vs wg and bb vs sj) and it's refreshing tbh. New talent, new voices, new music, new vibes. It gives overlooked idols a chance in the industry now. Like, Mamamoo. What, like all of them were passed over by Big 3 companies, joined a small one, and now they're one of the top ggs of their generation. And they're TALENTED, incredibly so. It lets artists that are genuinely incredible have a chance in the industry without having to fight tooth and nail to be in BIG 3. Plus, the shift allows for diversity in musical style. SM has their own experimental flavor, YG is hip-hop based or badass or whatever, and JYP is going through a crisis (aside from self producing groups like you said) so it gives artists and companies with different vibes and styles a chance to show their stuff without fans having to deal with like. 4 different options of music to listen to.

[@LifeOfTheAngels]

SM is seemingly centering and restructuring their groups around NCT what with the rotating members for their super groups, and the experimental music which is just….like why??? NCT is it’s own thing why’re they bleeding NCT’s concepts into other groups, it’s making them lose any individuality they previously had, and Aespa too, Aespa in itself is an interesting concept but they keep hand fisting the kwangya thing into all their old groups new works and it just doesn’t fit?? Even with GOT, their latest comeback, all the b sides on it just sounded like rejected Aespa tracks, and it’s really bothersome that SM pushed off Aespas comebacks continuously, just to push a novelty vanity project that ended up flopping anyway, like SM is seemingly trying to rely on the clout of their previous successful groups to soft launch this new restructure and most stans just aren’t interested

[@catchingteez]

I think that's partially why NCT doesn't feel as exciting anymore. Now it's all of SM doing it. Trying to shoehorn Kwangya into their older groups really made me scratch my head. It makes no sense.

[@nicoleloss7987]

They are not making any more nct

[@theophilus1981]

I think it's a good thing for the industry and smaller companies. the big3 will always be relevant. But seeing smaller company groups and artists get exposure is always good thing, alot of talent in the past hast fallen into the abyss of failed groups just because they didn't have the so called "big 3" privilege and budget.

[@sopuchitti2972]

BTS holds lots of power and HYBE is musically versatile and every group is doing so well ... 2017 BTS explode and the golden era satrted

[@moonpalaces]

ooh you hit the nail on the head with this video especially with that last point

[@catchingteez]

Thank you! I think people always forget how different the domestic and international markets are, companies included.

[@liladune3961]

I don't know much about the Big3 companies but your explained your points very well. Like other commenters, I'm happy to see a fellow atiny starting a kpop channel. I look forward to your future videos !

[@sonofsarek]

YG: all their popular songs are basically “I’m so cool”. If you have to sing a song about being cool, you’re not cool.

[@redd1161]

cooler than you though

[@sonofsarek]

@@redd1161 you wish.

[@everythingnothing2978]

I think they kinda succeed doing that but the group also must have it's own brand .Idk how to say it but when you see them you just knew that it's so them

[@adenashiloh3397]

One exception to this on YG's popular songs is Love Scenario by iKON.

[@jayr7781]

It sells so ofc they're going to go with that route

[@alesonu]

You know, recently I have seen a trend to hate any group belonging to HYBE. I don't now if it is because of the reason you mentioned but I am recently finding several haters of Hybe grp. They are putting hate comments abt them even on vids that have nothing to do with the grps! I don't know if you have noticed it, but being a multi stan, I am noticing it very frequently recently!

[@3yes0ny0u]

I thought SuperM was a mistake from the beginning. People were very excited at the idea that they were going to put some of the biggest names from the biggest groups into a brand new group, IMO, as a competition for BTS. But I had difficulty imagining that, when down the line these groups were going to be fighting their own people once the fans realized what a logistical nightmare it would be to fit SuperM schedules with their group and solo work. I couldn't believe they couldn't see that scheduling for the members was going to become a fight. So I had a sinking feeling that if SuperM was going to be successful, those members were going to be slowly pulled from their original groups. And for some groups, that could be the straw that break the back - be it in the form of disbandment or just a slow torturous death like f(x) and Miss A. So how well received would these members be if they are seen as the one that broke the group? Honestly, it felt like SM threw all they had at producing SuperM but the ROI is in the red.

[@llamabean529]

The moment SuperM was announced all the k fans were up in arms, I knew it was gonna be a flop because you can't just make music in English and expect people to love it. The group was and is a weird concept. As pointed out in the vid I just want to groups to promote individually also the name is terrible

[@user-ib1is7ny7r]

@@llamabean529 they only released 1 song in english though, I think the reason they flopped was freaking jopping

[@Doyoungismyfave]

@@user-ib1is7ny7rSuperM didn’t flop. They have done extremely well

[@onlyfrog]

as an exol who lived the whole superm thing, more than half of the fandom was unanimous in disliking the idea. the "war" inside the fandom was huge. i don't know how exactly it ended up in the large scale, but the common decision was to boycott it. it overworked baekhyun, he didn't like the project and we knew it'd be detrimental to exo's future. for the exols who supported it at the time, i hope they're satisfied knowing that superm was indeed the "beginning of the end" for exo being well-managed. we knew the plan was to hype nct and then discard exo so they could make nct their new exo (which never happened - they only kinda, very kinda reached that with aespa). now exo barely has comebacks and is promoted like a nugu group just because sm wants them to flop lol. same goes for red velvet.

[@valeriacollova3729]

I got into kpop in 2017, right before BTS won their first billboard award. I saw them before what was honestly the first major break in the US and started getting into kpop in general because of them; I learnt what the big 3 were and at the time, even with BTS' rising popularity, people would ridicule anyone that tried to utter the words "BIG 4" while referring to sm, jyp, YG and bighit (which ig it's fair given BTS were their only act at the time, but they also started making a LOT more money than them even with just one group). A lot of armys thought bighit should be included as BTS' popularity skyrocketed to levels no one had ever even thought possible... honestly in 2018/2019 I already thought that YG shouldn't be in the big 3 anymore and bighit should take their place, because of how badly YG kept managing their artist (mainly blackpink) + they were right in the middle of the burning sun scandal at the time... everything started to shift because of BTS' still untouched popularity and now that HYBE exists and has bought small labels they have actually become a real and giant threat to the big 3; this was unthinkable in 2017, when people still thought exo was bigger than BTS ever would, but honestly the big 3 has been slowly mismanaging their artist and getting worse and complacent for YEARS, but nobody was a competition if not bighit, because even if they only had BTS at the time, the big 3 saw how big they became globally and tried SO HARD for YEARS to replicate it with their existing groups or newer groups (reminder that when superM released they were specifically marketed as the Avengers of kpop to go against BTS; YG would never shut up with their comparisons of blackpink and BTS... everyone was trying to get their own BTS). now that HYBE has not only BTS but a whole bunch of other artists, they have completely broken the system, ESPECIALLY because now THEY'RE the trendsetters now with groups like txt, lesserafim, newjeans etc AND they have a bunch of beloved and still famous/active 3rd gen groups like BTS or SEVENTEEN. anyway, this change has been long coming, it all started with bighit surely but slowly and then it started the massive chaos after hybe was formed

[@RainydaysV-i5v]

I remember that lol 😆 Black pink is next BTS . Super M is next BTS. Stary kids is next BTS. Recently new jeans is next BTS. I am seeing all this from 2018 and now i am not interested in next BTS but i wonder which country artists going to rule the world maybe it's not korea anymore. Latin music rising so high . Without BTS k-pop has lost it's main stream and now other industry growing so fast .

[@grannyrocks]

Lmfao yes I testify this. K-pop fandoms would group together to mass report BTS music vids as well. Now that BTS is on a break we seee kpop groups getting a lot of attention which is just mere attention, no attraction, no drawing in, no connection of the fan with the artist. I think Latin music and Bollywood are catching pretty fast on k-pop right now!

[@garretburrow]

There is one thing I'd like to add regarding what you said at the end of the video about western/global fans preferring to support the little guy over big corpo money...I kinda think that's part of the reason why YG made "The Black Label." It has this "little guy" vibe, but with big corpo money support. We might see more big 3 companies using subsidiary companies to debut groups for that exact reason in the future.

[@Proj3ctX1]

I never thought about it until this video but imo HYBE is currently the biggest company in KPop imo. SVT, NJ, Enhyphen,TXT,Lesserafilm along with BTS were major contributors to the industry over the last year while I don't think the big 3 as all together had that many.

[@alphamigo111]

Why is there imo... Isnt it obvious that by money n impact hybe is too ahead of kpop rn.. 😂

[@smorespg3d312]

Hybe is worth more than all of the Big3 combined just counting BTS😊

[@Darkdesires946]

​@@smorespg3d312coz hybe has many labels lmao

[@Darkdesires946]

​@@alphamigo111only money not impact

[@whysoseriousd-2430]

​@@Darkdesires946 definitely impact too can we have intellectual conversation instead of smth that are said out of just hatred?

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

Idk, HYBE is definitely a new development, it's more accurate to refer to the "Big 4" now, but there have always been slumps for the Big 3, and have always been successful groups from smaller companies. Remember that time before Twice when JYP was nearly out of business? Everyone joked that Suzy was keeping the lights on, but it wasn't really a joke. Success comes and goes to an extent. There were majorly successful non-Big 3 groups like Infinite, Sistar, After School, T-ara, Brown Eyed Girls, GFriend, IU, 4Minute, Rainbow, AOA, etc. HYBE is really the only new story here.

[@_yeojo]

even though hybe is already a big gun now i'm as hybe enjoyer still hesitant to clump hybe with the big3 😂 i feel like hybe should be in it's own category

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

@@_yeojo But the point of categorizing those companies as "Big 3" is that they have a lot more capital than the small companies to invest in mv's and other promotions, and they have such a good reputation that the general public will always take a look when they debut a new group. Hybe fits all that criteria at this point, so they belong in the "Big 4". Like if you look at a group like NMixx, they haven't had any massive hit songs, if they weren't from a Big 4 company, people wouldn't take much notice and very few of the members would have any name recognition. If you're not from a Big 4 company, you need a hit song to get any significant attention.

[@_yeojo]

@@rachelmaddowswife8713 i pretty much know why hybe could be categorized with them, i dont need that long explanation. i feel hesitant because the other 3 are now messy so i want hybe to not be associated with them

[@rachelmaddowswife8713]

@@_yeojo Whether or not you like a company is subjective. Some people may like some that others do not. The fact that they're one of the top kpop companies is an objective fact though, you can't disagree with it.

[@forg_tful.]

​@@rachelmaddowswife8713"the big 3" term was never about the capital, it was about the biggest name kpop companies which have the biggest influence in the korean music industry, among music shows, media, broadcasters, etc. and as much money as hybe now have, they don't have the connections the big 3 have cultivated for decades before bighit even existed, let alone hybe. bts was not enough to rewrite that. the big 3 have these people in their pockets, it's a country where tradition reigns supreme after all.

[@GleeChan]

100% agree with everything here. Every time I wanted to type something you brought up that same thing! Even on (G)I-DLE being a cultural reset last year! I guess that's why I shouldn't try to comment before the video is over, lol.

[@catchingteez]

I appreciate you watching the whole thing! Glad I covered everything you wanted.

[@Taejiu]

This is 🔥 keep it up

[@jayr7781]

Yes we know Paid HYBE stan

[@nyangnyang8611]

i love the growing diversification in kpop because it brings more variety, but i agree that some big 3 groups are just being mismanaged which is a shame because they have great potential but are just given meh songs, especially girl groups who seem to be so popular with the korean general public if they're given mid songs of course people will look away and just focus on the next group

[@catchingteez]

Creative direction is such an issue for the Big 3 right now.

[@sur_un_nuage]

the closest i’ve ever come to being a “company stan” was when DSP was still relevant and it fell off they were SM’s competitor and while i also don’t think that the current big 3 are going anywhere any time soon simply because they enjoyed success during a time when kpop became more mainstream and more worldwide but no company is immune to struggle, so i know better than to be a company stan (for other reasons too)

[@kkurajam]

That was a great video , well put !

[@xXxNeonPrincessxXx]

As someone who's been an SM Stan for yeaaarsss. Started from SNSD to NCT my ult has been SHINee and I admit that SM is in a horrible position musically. For 4th Gen I started losing interest in NCT except for the Dreamies because I still like their releases. SHINee soloists still releases great music but SM doesn't really have the chokehold on the industry anymore and not a lot of buzz follows the seniors anymore, just the loyal fanbase. Their 4th gen groups direction are just questionable. It feels way too manufactured and no more variety. SM groups were always known for being experimental but it's not like this. They're trend makers but ffs stop making Kwangya happen it's not gonna happen they used to put out great musical trends from the cute concept of Gee to the tropical deephouse of View. The concepts had variety you never knew what you were gonna get you just knew it was gonna be good but now, it's just this typical kwangya sound and I hate it. Even though I still love the older groups releases the new projects are just terrible. They're just pretty much holding on to nostalgia with SM Family and I feel like the creative direction are now on the hands of businessmen and not actual artists. SHINee were able to handle their own creative direction in their solos but since they're blurred out and are just making music for their fanbase and they sound amazing but I cannot defend their new groups anymore.

[@catchingteez]

I think that's why the Girl's Generation comeback did so well. It wasn't experimental, which, ironically, made it stand out from SM's usual stuff. But still, it was riding off nostalgia too. They can't seem to come out with something new and fresh that looks toward the future.

[@maiphan1032]

hm thats odd, as someone who also started w snsd back in 2010, shinee being my ult as well, surprisingly i somewhat like the newer projects too... specifically aespa and some of nct stuff (mainly dreamies and some 127)

[@thebestlife1174]

​@Mai Phan right? I never listened to Exo, Red Velvet, or NCT. After aespa, I listen to all these groups now

[@katgreer6113]

kwangya is really hurting them more than they like to admit. They should have left kwangya and all of that only for aespa. NCT are my ults too, all units, and I think their peak was 2020 Resonance era. Not peak in terms of popularity, but quality of music releases and promotions. Promotions in 2020 were amazing for them and I loved it so much. When NCT comes together as a whole they are so powerful. 2021, Universe era however, was...mid at best. Bad at worst.

[@pufferfish3974]

Yeah same here tbh. Initially, I really tried to follow all three NCT groups and even other NCT U activities, but I really only stayed with 7dream. I feel kwangya could’ve been better if it was planned out much earlier on because right now, it feels rushed and it’s too confusing.

[@snooperslooth2795]

It's always better when there's competition between many companies. When there's competition you see better quality and variety of product.

[@medici__]

The vocal processing in twice's songs are also becoming atrocious, especially in their recent comeback with set me free. Everyone sounds robotic and too autotuned as if an AI processed the vocals. Not to mention some members vocals sound muffled. Its very distracting once you notice and It doesn't work at all.

[@catchingteez]

Yeah there’s been some weird stuff going on with Twice for a couple years now production-wise. I also have noticed an autotune issue with HYBE, but that would be a whole other video.

[@Fvhlipe]

@@catchingteez not to mention, when talking abt Twice’s set me free, the whole song and concept seems like a throwaway from Eyes Wide Open era, like something they would have released after Cry for me.

[@ilymahi]

yea i was so baffled to listen to moonlight sunrise on apple music (it has more hq sound) cause the mixing sounds awful ?? so disappointing

[@Sagopearl]

@@Fvhlipe that’s the whole point and the members wanted to release set me free because they think fans would like it since ‘it’s similar to cry for me’ 💀 it’s nothing similar lol

[@Sagopearl]

Where are you listening the song on? It sounds fine to me 😭

[@_pttypetty1202]

this is a whole essay on SM for anyone who cares to read😭 I have a lot I’d like to touch on when it comes to sm. The concern that SM groups are losing their individual identity is becoming incredibly prevalent. They all feel like replicas, from SuperM to GOT. They might as well slap the letters NCT in front of every SM group and consider them another sub-unit. The concept of having company albums is cute until you realise that their is barely any distinction from the company albums and their individual group albums. It barely even feels like a collaboration between different artists. It just feels like another play into NCT’s concept. Just as how all the sub-units gather together once every couple of years to create one big album they do the same between sm groups. They all gather as a company to produce one album. NCT having as many comebacks as they do within a year is just so counter-intuitive in my personal opinion. It surprisingly makes me bored. There’s little to no anticipation for their comebacks as there’s no time to cultivate excitement before something new drops. Genuinely feels like they are putting quantity over quality. For example, with NCT dream (and I speak on them through a purely subjective lense) when looking back at their first full-length album, Hot Sauce, to me it was a model album. They did everything right. To start of with, the promotion was absolutely impeccable, both before and during the era. Each track was distinguishable and had its own sound, putting together an amazing album. Production was great and there was evidently much time and effort put into each and every aspect (back when SM actually did their job). It didn’t feel like they were throwing something out to the public for the sake of it. When looking back at their successive releases however, I feel as though it’s difficult to make a proper discernment between tracks. It kind of feels lazy. The title tracks themselves were pretty lacklustre. Especially when NCT’s repacks (in my opinion) always out-do the original, which only served to deepen my disappointment when beatbox dropped. The b-sides all relatively sound the same, or at the very least have a similar vibe (save for their pure rap and pure vocal tracks) and even when switching between songs it feels repetitive and monotonous (this is not to say that they sound bad by any means) which kind of sucks when NCT usually has something unique to offer, being that they are pretty well know for their diverse discography. Aespa are honestly such a mess right now too. Everything about how sm has been managing aespa thus far screams unprofessional. When aespa go on live to talk about their delayed comebacks, or when they leak their own tracks in their lives to self promote it almost feels as if they are under a company that is on the brink of going under (probably not too far from the truth seeing all that’s going on). It sad because aespa really has what it takes to make a strong name for themselves in this sea of new groups that are constantly debuting. SM are genuinely wasting potential and it feels like everglow all over again. Aespa had such a huge grip on the industry from debut to next level and they are always highly successful when they are active so I don’t understand why SM doesn’t prioritise them. I feel like it does touch into a subject that someone else made a video on where they talked about how companies are not really used to girl groups being such a large source of income for the company. We are in an era of kpop where girl groups are dominating and selling millions but these companies don’t seem to come to that revelation. I feel as though these two groups, both aespa and NCT, mirror the inner turmoil within SM at the moment. Although experimental is SM’s trade mark, to me it seems like they are pushing this agenda a little too adamantly and it’s kind of off putting. Imagine, this isn’t even a quarter of the things that are wrong with the company at the moment and my comment barely scratches the surface pertaining only TWO of their groups. It’s going to be very hard for them to get their shit together.

[@catchingteez]

I'm the one who made a 23 minute video on this stuff so don't worry about posting an essay lol. I've never gotten into many NCT b-sides, but I definitely agree on the oversaturation of comebacks. Half the time I don't even hear about them before they pop up in my recommended a couple days later, and even then I'm not exactly eager to click because their last few titles just haven't hit for me. Aespa has what could be the strongest and most distinct brand from anyone in the 4th generation right now, but SM keeps diluting it and pushing them off to the side. It's so sad to see, especially considering that SM has never done a great job promoting their girl groups. I think I've also seen that video on the mishandling of girl groups, and I absolutely agree in SM's case. I want to say that SM will be able to pull itself out of this funk, but considering how many curveballs have been thrown at us in these couple months, I'm scared to even think about what they're not telling us and how badly the company could possibly be burning down at this point.

[@1__11]

It's all became quite a mess since nct2021: sm chose to ignore lucas' situation and put him in hiatus along with wayv (but they defeated sehun in an instant i don't get it), canceled rumoured album and china tour, it was clear to me that they had to rearrange 'universe' in a big rush because of that mess, there was no meaning in nct2021: no new members (actually even less), there was long awaited cb for 127 after successful 'kick it', but sm released nct2021 right after sticker and made them dirty. Everything was a mess in 2021, only dreamies did it really well that year. I'm really disappointed in nct's management, esp wayv. Atp wayv's potential just go to waste. As for aespa, i don't really get what exactly went wrong, mb less cb more success but i really enjoy their music tho they last cb was more nct-ish - I don't complain but expected them to be more hyperpop. Ig the main problem is concept of kwangya multiverse etc. The way sm do it now it's more like a bother, cause everything's stuck to it. I really wish nct could release smth like t7s once again 😢

[@staycsprinkles3777]

Part of it is because Lee Soo Man is an old dog that doesn't like to try new tricks. He didn't know how to evolve with the times. Even aespa's concept was developed in the 90s but he waited until the technology could catch up, but this whole Bible lore creeps people out

[@ningmushii]

I agree with everything you said. I notice that around mid or late 2019 SM songs especially NCT have lost that ✨touch.✨ Everything sounds the same, there’s no more anticipation or uniqueness, it’s just like here’s a new song and it’s nothing really special. I can tell that the idols are tired, like very tired and the video that comes to mind is the Ay-yo recordings, they sound tired. They don’t even sound like they have much energy but still managing to make it work. Red Velvet too, What happened to their classic hits and each b side making the album feel full and diverse? Their last 3 major releases are just okay, like I still can listen to them (except feel my rhythm because it was horribly executed imo and whoever was in charge of that could’ve make it fit them much better.) but it doesn’t sound like how it used too.

[@_pttypetty1202]

@@catchingteez YES! The whole thing where NCT randomly pops up in your recommended, just yes. Everything they’ve dropped after NCT universe feels like it came out of nowhere. Quite frankly, their last few comebacks (ay-yo, phantom, BFE) have made little to no noise whatsoever. I completely agree that aespa has so much potential amongst 4th gen, notably with the influence they had on the industry as mere emerging artists. I think the mismanagement of aespa is the most easy to spot especially when the members themselves are quite vocal about it. The fact that Aespa’s comeback for last year was postponed for ‘stamp on it’ is incredibly poor on SM’s behalf. Having a comeback for aespa last year could’ve been pivotal for them and was such a missed opportunity to build a stronger foundation for aespa’s fanbase. This would be necessary given the fact that they are still in the early stages of their careers. I do also believe that SM will get through this mess eventually but, with how many issues that are already arising, it seems as though they are holding themselves down with side tasks that only act as an anchor in their progress. SuperM and GOT are projects that sound appealing on paper but realistically it would be difficult to properly execute and pull off. There would be no real loss should they decide to quietly get rid of them. When it’s very evident that they are using these two groups to pander to the western market it renders them both pretty useless. Aespa’s popularity both domestically and internationally is at an all time high and NCT’s popularity in the west seems to be soaring so truthfully I feel that there’s no need to invest in these “supergroups”.

[@96unique2]

I have noticed the weird mixing in nmixx’s songs! I thought I was the only one! I might have even commented about it when it first came out but I couldn’t really find anyone talking about that aspect of the song. Good to know I’m not completely crazy

[@catchingteez]

That's partially why I wanted to bring it up so bad. I felt the exact same way, so it's nice to find other people who have also noticed it!

[@namaide2000]

I really like your analysis, please scream more trues about the K-Pop industry 👌🏻

[@catchingteez]

Thanks! I definitely plan to.

[@risurisunaa]

I began to stan Twice only this year, but the more I do it, the more I'm concerned about their well-being. If the latest video about Ready To Be content Behind Scenes (that includes dance practices and some games) is to be believed, it means that they shot 6 videos in a day. Four of them are dance practices that required to be in one take. Maybe I'm overthinking it, after all it's probably nothing compared to live, and they [Twice] say that being hardworking is in their genes, but is it really okay? Maybe they should rest once in a while? As for their music, well... I actually like Set Me Free, but I can't deny that is rather hard on autotune. And the m/v, despite being somewhat catchy, parts of it look like they are from different m/v. I keep saying that Twice slay every concept, but still something's just off. And, to think about it, I didn't heard much about other groups from JYP. Sounds really suspicious.

[@wywrd_mtnt]

well as a stay, overworking is the jyp brand unfortunately. skz are being worked to the point most members are injured and most of us are incredibly worried rn so

[@everythingnothing2978]

Twice is definitely overworked.I have been a casual listener of them for quite long and I noticed how frequent their mv got recommended to me .I stan other groups so it's like I thought these girls just had a cb? Like it's crazy

[@MoonMontag]

I also like twice but I hate how frequent their comebacks are !! Like take a break take a step back set yourself free from the shackles of overworking. I agree Twice keep saying that they love being in the studio and making back to back releases but it’s been like that for over 8 years. They have two to three Korean releases and a Japanese release within one year almost every year

[@barkspasenine]

I bought the set me free album and even just looking through the pictures, something feels off. Especially when you compare it next to Nayeons solo album.

[@markigirl2757]

If they are using auto tune it might be they are finally giving the girls a break from their high pitch sound so in a way it’s a good thing but yeah I think eventually twice will have to retire one day if they continue overworking

[@sarcasticsquiggles1512]

I’m definitely new to the kpop world, only now branching out from bts since Jin’s enlistment. I had no idea there were “Big 3” companies, in fact I though HYBE was a big company. This is really helpful, outside of the kpop stans I’ll be the first to say that BTS is treated as mainstream in my area. No one thinks they are the under dog because they are so huge. Super interesting video, and easy to digest. I don’t have more than 2 years listening to Kpop, and even then it’s a very narrow view of the industry as I stuck to one group. Can’t wait to see more of what you upload!

[@nicholaskatsikas4904]

BTS started out as an underdog when they debuted but that’s not unique for K-pop groups outside the big three (Vixx was another such underdog). The difference with BTS is that they steadily grew as a group and became the most popular idol group ever which was a huge surprise for everyone into K-pop who was listening in 2015-2016. It would be a mistake to call the groups working under Hybe underdogs though. I was a fan of a bunch of small groups and they would kill to have the funding groups under the Hybe umbrella have now.

[@Hahahahahahaha11335]

Finally an Atiny made a k-pop commentary channel 😭😭 Thank you so much for making this Channel ❤️ I was tired of biased opinions and people excluding Ateez out of discussions. Now I can see more Ateez fancams 🥳 I love your voice and the way you talk 😆 also agree with everything you said . Will you please make a video on unpopular k-pop opinions or opinions on particular groups ! You slayed in the first video can't wait for more 😄

[@catchingteez]

Hello fellow Atiny! I definitely have some Ateez-centric content lined up so stay tuned for that. I also have a video about Dreamcatcher coming up if you're familiar with them. Any particular groups you would like to see me cover?

[@Hahahahahahaha11335]

@@catchingteez I know dreamcatcher. I LOVE their Song Deja Vu . I heard it few days ago and it's one of my top gg songs of all time 😩 I'm only an Atiny so I can't say any specific group other than Ateez but I'll definitely watch everything you'll make ❤️

[@catchingteez]

Thanks for the support! ❤️

[@C.f001]

@@catchingteez first of all I’m so glad you made this channel, second of all I’m also curious about Dreamcatcher 😶

[@5XKXNXA]

i am not even an Atiny but i am happy about that too. We need fresh opinions!

[@ujungangel]

9:05 DUDE LITERALLY😭😭 and what pisses me off the most is the producers of mafia in the morning act like they did something so revolutionary when they really just jump-started the downfall of Itzy’s career

[@atomiconnection]

Good video! There were interesting points made for big 3’s and Kpop in general. HYBE is a label for NewJeans (ADOR) and LE SSERAFIM (Source Music). IVE (Starship) has actor division and music division. After Izone, Wonyoung and Yoojin joined IVE which brought life to Starship. IU is a company unto her own. I think Koreans also embrace the rise of smaller agencies. They are quick to abandon things that may not work well. It’s part of the ultra competitive mindset. The international fan base has certainly played its part in accelerating the rise of smaller agencies. I believe the talent-driven business models will ultimately prevail in Korea, and you are seeing this being played out among current generation of K-pop artists.

[@lucianarodriguez4201]

i started listening to kpop during lisa solo era so i;m kinda new, i remember i was so into blackpink until i didn't know what else to watch, then i discovered stray kids and ateez (my ults) and i'm kinda a jyp nation stan which i have to say jyp is my favorite big 3, with that being said... with yg i think the main problem is the lack of content we get, like throwing a blackpink member to make a tik tok is not good promotion for the other groups. i'm also into yg groups like a casual listener, yg's latest problem is their idols are leaving and i think one of the reasons are related with what i said first, like for me is unbelievable that a group like ikon with the talents they have and amazing songs like love scenario or rhythm ta are not extremely big in corea and internationally, also i'm still hurt that mashiho and yedam left yg because i was starting to stan treasure BUT with yg artist in general i think that after they promote they disappear and they only promote like 3 times i think, also they need to find their sound bc looking and sounding cool kinda gets boring sometimes so with jyp would say the group that was harder for me to listen was itzy idk, i swear i read somewhere that itzy meant something that it related to their concept but i can't remember. i also don't get their concept but i like their songs and they're so talented, and i really appreciate that the mics are on literally always. i hope this year they get better songs and establish a clear concept. with nmixx idk why but i like their songs i think their talent is what grows on me, the vocal ability of this group is out of this world, out of their 3 tittle tracks for "love me like this" is best i think we can all agree on that, and i really like that concept for me it's giving avril lavigne vibes with the clothes they wore and also i loved the dice conept giving alice in wonderland, i think if they establish their concept with some "dark" alice in wonderland idk if i'm explaining it correctly, nmixx can be a monster rookie they have it all. for twice i feel they're discovering how they want their mature sound to be idk but i love set me free. with XH i looovee them, their songs, personality everything, sometimes i forget they're a band i hope this year we can get more content from them. and lastly for stray kids the sky is the limit for them you can see how envolved they're in everything they do and i thank jyp for letting them do what they want with sm idk why but i never been interested in their groups, only like some of shinee, exo and taemin songs and psycho obviously, but atp everything they're releasing lately sounds like and nct extension, also can we please start a petition for sm to stop having nct units when they overwork some members and forget others exists, ALSO my main problem with sm is that ever since the pandemic we get 2 to 0 live performances, but in general i think sm needs to take a break to work with what they have, and stop focusing in quantity sorry for writing a lot hahahaha, also if something is not well written english is not my first language and love to see a channel from a fellow atiny

[@Nameless_mixes]

There are so many issues happening with the Big 3. I feel like there wasn’t even enough time in the vid to discuss it all without going over 2 hours. Looking at YGE, there’s also The Black Label where Somi presides. And maybe BP/Winner? Idk. All of the changes in YGE management at the beginning of this year was… something. But their strategy of “less is more” really is starting to harm them. With how impatient KPop stans are for new content 24/7, you can’t be going on 2+ year hiatuses. Blackpink isn’t the standard. They’re the exception. And when the biggest girl group isn’t reminding us of their presence, it allows for smaller groups to rise to prominence. Hence the massive explosion in popularity of NewJeans and Fifty Fifty (not to mention IVE, Le Sserafim, etc.). And them trying this out with Somi has basically destroyed her career. She went from JYPE not letting her debut to YGE not letting her comeback. Speaking of JYPE, they’re never had an original idea in their life. That’s an entire video in itself that I’m planning on saving for a rainy day when a certain fandom has ticked me off enough. And for what little creativity they do have (DAY6, XDinary Heroes, etc.), they don’t promote them enough. Don’t get me started on how NiziU and Boy Story’s potentials have been squandered. It’s no wonder that Itzy’s concept didn’t go far and that NMIXX is already changing up their sound to have more widespread appeal. But since we’re talking about creativity, SME has always been the company that pioneers KPop and the direction of the industry. Anything that you love about your faves, there’s like a 99% chance that SME did it first. But they basically beached the ship and can’t get it back in the water with the SMCU. IMO, I love the idea of more canonically connecting the lores of their groups. We saw this come to light through EXO and Red Velvet’s discographies being interconnected. And NCT added onto that. But Aespa really brought it all together. And that first year of late 2020-late 2021 was amazing! Then 2022 happened… Where the SMCU concept should be wrapping up by their 4th year anniversary (check out Mera’s video on Itzy where she briefly explains the “4th Year Fever”), it seems to be going nowhere. Not only are they dooming Aespa’s long term career (similar to F(x)’s), but they’re dragging the company down with it as long as this Kwangya branding is all over the place. Don’t get me wrong, I watched SMTown on New Years and loved seeing all of their artists come together. But it should be reserved for events like that and not be in every group’s discography. So yeah, I don’t think these companies are going anywhere either. Their sales over the last 2-3 years is proof of that. But their management teams need to get with the program. YGE needs to give its artists content. JYPE needs to think outside of the box. And SME needs to realize that they’re no longer the only company with creative vision. Albeit, HYBE’s ideas are very different. But now both companies are starting to compete over who has more influence over the KPop sphere. And with RBW trying to be a HYBE wannabe, I think SME needs to wake up and realize they’re losing. Anyways, I just want whatever’s best for the artists. They didn’t work this hard for their companies to screw them over. Loved the video, as always! You’re easily becoming one of my favorite KTubers! And anyone who watches Felt’s content has amazing taste! 🙌❤️

[@nicholaskatsikas4904]

Agreed with most of this take except for the statement about NizU because they don’t belong in this discussion because they are a Jpop group not a K-pop group and since debut they have been an incredibly successful group at that.

[@stacie1595]

Agree with your assessment of big3. I'm curious about your thoughts on NMIXXs latest comeback. If they can manage to form a cohesive identity around that kind of music, I think JYP could be on to something. But as a long time kpop fan, I think we need to apply the same level of scrutiny to HYBE now. We can critique the big3 but we also need to be checking our bias and making sure we aren't placing hybe on the same pedestal. You might like the way hybe does things for now but with power and influence comes corruption. I'm not saying that's happening now, but we should just be reminding ourselves that hybe is in the business of making money like all the rest and run the risk of being just as problematic.

[@jamkutie]

Yes HYBE run the risk of being problematic as you say but waiting for future problems or treating them like will become corrupt to the current levels of big 3 before anything even happens is also problematic. We see it already with Big 3 stans trying to throw every random thing at HYBE and trying to make it stick to divert from their company stanning behaviour of these historically corrupt companies. Company stans are weird and HYBE will definitely get attacked for sure when the time comes. We know ppl are just waiting to throw stones because they've gotten big now.

[@HeidiAndrea-mp8oe]

But if you expect hybe to be that corrupt expect the whole big three tooo ok and yeah hybe focus on music and it brings money that the whole point of it the resin hybe will be problematic is cause of big three Stan’s are angry hybe keep succeeding and hyb will be attacked and made to seem like the bad guy in every way

[@eileencritchley4630]

The contract law in South Korea for kpop individaulss/groups is 7 years after someone bought a case to the law courts I think it was sort of known as 'end slave contracts' not the real name but the common name people used for it.

[@WilliamsAK07]

I think you're right on, about BP. They are talented, but doing the "We're better than everybody" is old, and really trying to portray themselves bigger than they are is also old. I do like them, apologies if it sounds like I don't. I actually used to listen to them, but pretty much quit. I think trying too hard to be the "one" is giving them tunnel vision, which is not good. I do listen to BTS, continue to listen to BTS, I don't really know which artists belong to which company, I just try to find something that sounds good. I do like New Jeans, TXT and I think these are both HYBE, think I remember you mentioning that. I don't know a lot about the K Pop industry, from what it sounds like, a lot of the artists don't have the freedom to bring what they have forward, which is what really make an artist an artist. I have a very hard time telling one group from another, often sound too familiar, looking too much alike. I hope for all of the artists, a good change is on the horizon. I do think with all the hard work all of them put into it, they deserve to take opportunities. Thank you for sharing.

[@ancientmingyu0604]

Fantastic video. Absolutely spot on! You did amazing work with this, thank you so much ❤️

[@AnejaJohnson-rj2xu]

For sm, I think they are gonna debut a new boy group. that has (former nct members) sungchan and shotaro, so that should be interesting. I also think that they are gonna debut another girl group, but I can't wait to see what sm has in store for everyone 😅

[@Ankit-uv3yp]

There is one thing about SM, they survive, no matter how great of a clusterf*ck they get themselves into

[@slowtassium]

so glad u brought up the jyp production issue i felt like i was going crazy !! to me the vocals sound as if they were singing in a cardboard box, like they're too "cushion-y" (?) which is a strange route to take with your 2 more girl-crush focused groups, this would work for like a ballad, but a song like Dice ??

[@Cloudsofsand]

I really like your globalization point and how those in the west reject corporations! I honestly didn't think of that and you can definitely be on to something there!

[@2xsunny]

I can't believe sm had my girls taeyeon, hyoyeon and boa singing 'step back, silly girl'. They should just have let aespa have the song. The styling, lyrics and style of song were clearly aespa-esque

[@WarriorSageNeha]

Eww why would even aespa sing that 😂😂 and yes I get style of song and styling.. but what make you think lyrics were aespa esque ..

[@azirai2408]

and imagine than even if baby monster DO survive and continue to renew their contracts i hope that they rethink the group name before debut because imagine if they last for as long as SuJu did we would be calling late 20s, 30 year olds baby monster??????? it's like when they thought of the group name they didn't expect them to continue for that long which is a bad move on their part

[@wendyeveryday]

I agree with everything you said, the whole video I was screaming "YES!! Finally, someone who share the same opinion as me"😂😂😂 I'm OG Stan of K-pop since 2009, so I notice when the shift of attention occurring to BIG 3, when BTS suddenly exploded back 2017. For EXAMPLE: the moment SM released Super M, I already knew it was going to be a disaster because they tried so hard to make an avengers group, promoting exclusively at US, just to compete with BTS fame. And we know its not going to work cause BTS has become fan favourite due to their underdog story, their connection to music and fan. Not just some bunches of people you never know before came together (no hate to the members). BTW, I'm not an ARMY SO NOT A BIASED OPINION but I follow BTS story and a casual listeners. I'm also NOT SM haters because they are the ones that got me into K-pop in 2009, and I know about SM collaboration projects (like SM Ballad, etc), but I have seen enough when a group is created for strategy marketing to lift the company BRAND. Watch this video if you want to understand more what I'm pointing about: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mna5c4ean7t1mrM (NCT story) & kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYLPZ3Z_a9d7qM0 (SM story) by felt. 💕 Love your video. And FYI, I'm also fellow InSomnia since Fly High era❤😁🥰 so I know popularity disparity feels.

[@catchingteez]

I love that I'm meeting all these Insomnias in my comments! It's nice to hear an that an OG kpop stan agrees with me since I only got into kpop in 2020. It's cool to know that we noticed the same thing despite starting at such different times.

[@themousegoddess]

I was originally a Loen girl back in the day, so my perspective may be skewed. But I think the SuperM and GoT shit is also something that grew out of SM's same old thing of wanting to be Motown 4.0. I mean, SM Station has always seemed to me to be a pretty direct imitation of how Motown would have its stable of artists collab regularly. Think Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell. But the thing is, they're falling prey to the same stagnation that Motown hit when it left Detroit. They're now following trends instead of setting them. (Disclaimer: except for some of the artists who have a degree of self-determination built into their contracts (due to seniority).) I don't think SuperM et al has as much to do with trying to compete directly with BTS, as it does with that trend following. They tossed a bunch of existing artists together to maximize hype, because they didn't want to spend the resources on something actually new but still wanted to cash in.

[@ekuniverse1]

I think of BTS as a group that would've been produced if SM and YG created a boy group together. They have the idol image, fandom, marketing, visuals, dancing like SM. But also like YG they have western inspired vocals, rap and self-produce their own music with creative freedom as artists. Even though I joined K-pop in 2018 when BTS was already the top group. I could see why they succeeded and you could say they are the latest innovation of K-pop. They are the most all-rounded K-pop group. Meanwhile when you see SM and JYP groups, they have the idol management but lacked the self-artistic direction until SKZ of course, which is why SKZ is succeeding and so popular and YG were originally lacking with the "idol" image but were definitely going to succeed with iKON, they had everything it took to succeed like BTS. The hit songs, songwriting, dancing, down to earth personality, stage presence. Just unfortunate B.I had a scandal. YG was promoting them a lot at that time too, they were winning Daesangs and there were lots of big plans for them in 2019 and push them as the face of YG. If there's one company that can rival HYBE with global popularity it's always been YG, with 2NE1, Psy's Gangnam Style, Bigbang and Blackpink. YG was always the one that was more likely to help K-pop succeed in the west because their music is inspired by pop culture, they were never typical idol groups, just artists who love music. What BTS did is YG's and SM's formula and package it all into one. However the biggest problem I have with YG's 4th generation is that they're turning too much towards the idol side, where there is less creative freedom. Likewise it's the same for HYBE, Trainee A was going to be self-produced but it's really hard to find trainees who are musically talented instead of wanting to just be a "cool" idol. I'm looking forward to Zico's boy group as well as Jay Park's and B.I's in the future.

[@EEG4ever]

I’m a fan since 2008 and I agree with Wendy, when the idea of super m first announce I was very skeptic and questioning wtf is the company doing. Totally gave up when they don’t understand that releasing a girl version of super m aka GOT isn’t gonna make things better.

[@LovelyLittleLillies]

​​@@themousegoddess too many fake undercover BTS fans here claiming to be SM artists fans . Idk at that time but SM is known for SM concerts where they bring ALL their artists together. They've also have been doing inter collabs for holiday season. This is nothing new. Why does everything have to do with BTS. Look I used to listen to their music prior to DNA and Butter is a bop, but let's not pretend that BTS is original or unique. They're literally a clone of BAP who were massively successful in Korea and within the kpop fandom and Block B. 3 rappers one of whom happens to be a dancer, 2 of whom seem more underground. HipHop elements? Mixing underground rap with idol lol. It's all been done. Soon they're gonna say SM groups breathe bc they were copying BTS lol. Let's not be fake n dumb here. Super M has nothing to do with BTS and eveito do with Big 3's ever so unending attempt to break into US market. Make sense they'd do that if Big 3 were already breaking into Japan and China for a long time. Don't tell me BTS copied Wonder Girls 😂😊

[@witchgroup]

Very good video, it really give perspective on a lot of thing i didn't think about.

[@inimmz]

i wish these companies had your thought process because you sound like youve put more thought into this than any of those companies have in the past few years

[@catchingteez]

I don't know if I should feel more flattered or worried about that 😂

[@strngrdani]

you summed up everything perfectly ahhhhh

[@Sonar_125]

I think it's the end of big 3 domination considering how stayc, Ive, new jeans and le ssarafim are doing well. It's Hybe's dominance as of 2023.

[@RainydaysV-i5v]

Big3 started to go down when BTS waved started in 2016 . BTS Alon made bighits richest than Big3 combined. BTS alone was more Big than k-pop at the time because no one knew about k-pop. Then bighit started to buy small company like pledis, source, ador and also in west Justin Bieber company and they become giant not just in terms of money but power too . And as k-pop started grew other small companies groups also growing alone with big3 and HYBE. The difference is before it was only big3 who was ruling the industry but now many companies and the most giant HYBE. HYBE now has alot of successful groups and without BTS they still can be on top and intresting thing is HYBE can be on top with ONLY BTS too ( without any HYBE artists) . It's crazy that BTS is now on hiatus almost from an year STILL 60% HYBE income cane from BTS Alon and other 40 % include SVT, TXT, enh, New jeans, lesser, etc . BTS truly legends no comparison but HYBE got lucky with BTS.

[@ArieAGinting]

for JYPE, they have a special Division to handle their Artists. Division 1 takes care of 2PM, Stray Kids, 3Racha, and many more Division 2 Only takes care of Itzy Division 3 Take Care, Twice, J. Y. Park and Nayeon (Twice) SQU4D takes care of NMIXX Studio J manages Day6, Xdinary Heroes, Even of Day (Day6), Young K (Day6), Dowoon (Day6), Wonpil (Day6) and there is also JYP China & JYP JAPAN especially in Itzy's case, they were handled by Division 2 whose work has been getting worse and worse lately. This division has also started to be discussed a lot by the Knets highlighting their poor work performance, considering they only have 1 Girl Group to take care of

[@zjdj09]

i am genuinely so happy that someone has finally tackled this topic. i've only been into kpop for like 3-4 years (1 and a half being just a bts stan 😔) but i've had my fair share of...thoughts on the industry. i really liked that you went into depth with each company and even included hybe. i think it's the big 4 (as some call it) at this point, and hybe is definitely dominating. also i'm so surprised that this is your first video???? like DAMN i need more 🫶

[@minihwas]

It’s a small gripe, but like you said I WISH jyp would stop spoiling the entire chorus in trailers. I felt like i’d heard skz’s whole album before it even got released, i almost don’t wanna watch the trailers next comeback but alas , i’m nosey

[@geonah05]

Ateez are my ults too and I love XG. Such a good video, thank you!

[@nyxsneha4588]

Bts is bigger than all of kpop combined. Lets keep things in perspective guys.

[@TheBoytoy09]

I completely agree with you. I'm no music expert I'm just a fan, and like wise I too began gravitating to smaller company groups. I feel bad for all the artists being affected especially those who are trapped or have no control. Great video 📹 👍 👏 👌

[@TheMusicBoxMashups]

A well spoken host and New World as the outro music? Yeah this is a great video

[@catchingteez]

Omg stop I just laughed so hard 😂 It's nice to find another New World enthusiast!

[@debaratipaul851]

I don't necessarily think big 3 companies are falling behind but I can see that big3 companies most likely rely on their name rather than actually doing something to promote their artists. Like how luxury brands charge for their brand name rather than their product. Because I can see that right now SKZ is doing pretty well but most of the times they are not promoted properly. It wasn't until Maxident era that they went on a few promotional shows other than weekly idol and idol radio. SKZ just got some foreign gigs and most of the times they do not get to collab with foreign idols that will help them reach more people. Their concept photos for new albums always make them look like mannequins for branded clothes. The company rarely does anything creative about it. Most of the times albums are not available in album counters just after a month of music release but 2 year old albums of other groups are available. I am really glad they have such creative freedom but the company needs to do something, at least something for them to move forward.

[@chibib]

I stan three groups: (G)I-dle (mid-tier company), Ateez (small company) and SKZ (big company), and I strongly agree with your thoughts on SKZ promotions during comebacks. Sure, I don't mind the usual Weekly Idol, Human Theatre, etc. but dang look at (G)I-dle guesting in that show where they drank alcohol (Nxde era), that was sooo fun! And Ateez has been in Showterview more than once and also collaborated with various KZbinrs! All of these on top of Weekly Idol, etc. (not sure if they go there every comeback but I know they have gone there). I can give Div1 props since we had a better variety of guestings during Oddinary/Maxident, but it's still not enough. Wishing for the best! P.S.: I really LOVE how KQ is handling Ateez right now. Now that they have another group under their wing, the true test of their management skills is just starting. I am personally rooting for them as a company!

[@debaratipaul851]

@@chibib Yeah, I am really glad as well that Ateez are being handled properly. Lot of small companies are actually putting in the work that they need to promote their artists. Like XG and fifty fifty. But for skz and other jyp artists, specially their boybands (no hate to the girlies at all, I love them) div1 just doesn't seem to have any idea how they should promote them. I honestly do not need skzflix or web drama stuff. I'd rather have more promotional collabs and creativity in their comebacks other than just 3racha's hard work. XH is just falling behind as well. I need them to be seen so bad. I need jyp to accept more popular brand deals and better styling for XH.

[@chibib]

@@debaratipaul851 I am excited for Skzflix actually and was sad when it didn't push through last year. It'd be a good way to showcase their acting skills since the boys haven't starred in a proper drama so far. I'm not big on Kdramas, but my bias line is actually a popular pick among Stays to debut as actors (plus 1 point for Ateez again for getting drama roles way ahead). I'm curious though, what sort of more creative promotions would you like to see from Div1, or previous promotional activities you liked and wanted more of? As a girl who loves bands, I am worried for XH too. I am already sad with the lack of bands in the scene (N.Flying is my fave so far). I'm aware of the mess Day6 was before they started enlisting, and I'm afraid XH will go another route. I love their punk, "I am NOT" SKZ era sound so much! Jooyeon's singing style is soo strong and fitting for the genre. He's like Jongho but in another font lmao.

[@eita8946]

treasure is great, has great promotion, super talented members and incredible good songs. people just don't give them enough appreciation, but they are literally blowing up on japan right now. theyre doing great, thank you.

[@JB-bl7xf]

They have shitty music tho

[@user-bv7rl9zj5x]

their music isn't good

[@Foxy-ct4yn]

Has a single YG artist even released a song this year? like the other two of the big three have had multiple artists releasing this year already it's kinda crazy to think about

[@catchingteez]

Now that you say that... not that I've heard of. Jeez that is crazy considering we're heading into April.

[@Chichi11186]

It’s so weird honestly. They say it’s “quality over quantity,” but it sounds like restriction instead.

[@EllaVateGoingUp]

The closest so far was Bigbang's Taeyang releasing a solo song with Jimin....and even then he's under the Black Label now instead of the main YG label. So even that doesn't really count. Jisoo's solo will be the first YG release of the year one third of the way through (unless I've missed something, I don't stan any YG acts)

[@sparkle2848]

A member of AKMU released a song but thats about it i think

[@EllaVateGoingUp]

@Sparkle Oh yeah Akumu! I keep forgetting they're under YG. Yeah Suhyun did a collab for Big Naughty's new album

[@IMAMYLUU]

Off the topic but SM's discography is sooooo good, you guys should really check out NCT 127's R&B, amazing

[@angelf722]

Nmixx just made a comeback with Love Me Like This not just the song but every sing bside song in their album is amazing and high quality, it surprised me. They just got their first win!! So proud this is their beginning please continue voting for them. Groups like Stray kids, Treasure and nmixx who's success is slow but successful feels much more organic than new group who win straight away after debut. In many ways, Nmixx remind me of NCT 127 when they first started off people didn't like their futuristic neo sounds and they won their first win with cherry bomb the year after debut. Treasure too with jikjin, i hope babymonster do well, i have a feeling they will since their producer won't be teddy, but nowadays good music doesn't matter in kpop sadly. Even tho babymonster have a lot of global fans idk about their korean fans, so I'm a little worried but we'll see.

[@Kpop.addict_Drama]

Company stans make me feel so weird whether its big 3 stans, single companys or hybe i just feel weird about it I know everyone loves hybe but I still just dont think we should stan companys and all the hybe, yg stans, sm, basically big 3+hybe stans love to act superior and sometimes I just find it cringy idk

[@TEAM__POSEID0N]

Yeah. It's kind of an unusual thing in Kpop. In other markets, it's quite common for fans of groups or artists to not even be very aware of which company their faves are signed with. The funny thing about HYBE company stans is that they think that HYBE is special and the other companies are bad and that they're not really "company stans" because they're just pointing out that HYBE is better than everyone else. The HYBE stans just go around talking about HYBE the same way that all other company stans talk about their fave companies, but they aren't willing to admit that they're the same as other company stans.

[@natalies.9487]

i feel like bighit was the crack in the BIG 3 structure and now all the little companies have a chance

[@spacespace652]

i love the clarity you have in your points! it's also great to listen to a video essay with wonderful evidence-based points without and backhanded quips against preferences. of course there will always be bias, but your video is so organized and well made that i would grade this a perfect score for an essay!

[@catchingteez]

Aw thank you! I'm glad my reasoning is sound.

[@spacespace652]

@@catchingteez it definitely more than sound! i read a bunch of other comments and i saw that you major in advertising. it really shows that you know what you're talking about :) hope to hear more from you, whether its another essay or something less serious! (or none at all if u dont want to post, no pressure!)

[@FaveDike]

i feel like wayv would have being bigger cuz their english songs are so amazing and theve got talent

[@jaiikoala]

I will also add as someone who has loved a lot of sm’s artists work… that another huge thing that’s making them go down hill is that their music is starting to sound outdated.. like its good when you can modernize 2nd gen sounds and make them sound 4th gen, but im not getting any of that from their producers it just sounds like they’re being lazy and genuinely stuck in 1st and 2nd gen trends which ties into the point you made about their groups lacking individuality, because they’re just starting to sound like people who paved the path in the company their walking on, like aespa is starting to sound like red velvet if red velvet was a tech inspired group, and nct sounds like if super junior were to be going through a middle age crisis, nct’s management also seems to be developing a momoland syndrome were they are producing the same song (with minor changes) because its what peaked or got viral and not giving us anything different if that makes sense, like i love 2 baddies but i feel like I’ve heard 8 different versions of 2 baddies before 2 baddies even came out ??? Hell 2 baddies even sounds super similar kick it WHICH IS SAYING ALOT .. YG just seems like they’re trying to play a game of catch up at this point, Seungri’s scandal as well as all the numerous drug scandals they’ve had seem to have just stolen soo much of their time and attention that they’re now scrambling to catch up and see what people actually like and implement it, it seems like they’re just catching up to trends that happened in 2018-2019 like trend wise YG is at least 4-5 years behind. JYP, i have a strong feeling that the reason the groups that arent self produced look like they’re having an identity crisis, IS BECAUSE JYP HIMSELF IS MOST LIKELY HAVING ONE- he’s 51 years old, and he has kids that are mostly between 5-10… which means he has kids part of generation alpha , so music wise he can only account for what he knows millennials and gen alpha like listening to, hence why itzy had Been dropping music that sounds like it was for kids under 13, especially sneakers.. hes having a hard time finding what Gen Z (which ranges from the ages of Mid 20’s to 13) likes in terms of music. he has no clue musically what the entirety of Genertion Z enjoys, and NMixx is him experimenting with what he thinks we like, he missed with O.O, but got us with tank, he saw we liked tank and created Dice, so hes just literally using the numbers from their releases as well as itzy to see what we will stick on the billboards

[@jaiikoala]

Most of gen z liked what hybe was putting out content wise and musically before they became Hybe so source music and big hit (i think ador was recently created), so they’re just using their numbers from then while also studying trends to drop music hence why their groups haven’t had a musical flop yet, because they know what we like, while also keeping their groups individuality intact because their giving these groups who have members apart of gen z creative control of the groups sound

[@lisapang1943]

You hit the nail on the head!

[@flare929]

Sm is more in trouble now after 3 exo members sued sm for not paying them 😂

[@kenziii5973]

I Dont think you Can call it loosing the grip but more like a transitional period like at least for SM ent and yg ent , since both still have among their groups one of the top5 4 Gen groups and they're both will be debuting New groups and you Can tell they both scout talented promising trainees , im personally looking forward to see how well their début will be

[@lealarsen2017]

this was the most accurate non biased explanation i have heard so far. and you are right. because i have seen fans of the big three labels ban together against Hybe because they too feel the shift and are affraid their fave idols will be swallowed. what they need to do is is have one big Hybe "like" label with a lot of smaller labels under them. who runs themself. because look at how different the Hybe groups are. i am only a BTS fans but i do listen and watch what i can about the industry. and i too was very much against the powerful people on top. i started out watching kdrama so i know that those things that is rumored is likely to be true about the industry and korea. I also follow an ex producer who worked in different labels so he know how it all works. and it´s really awful but he can practically tell who produced what without looking at the credits. but the reason why i never supported other groups is that the music is really not for me. However some TXT songs and New jeans are actually really good. and that´s because they are more mainstream golbally. I watched an interview with the professor who had a BTS cores and he was interviewed in korea and he had a very interesting view on kpop. he liked kpop music so he said that if you like one song you will likely to love it all because they all sound the same. But ever since BTS came they changed it all. Bts broke the norm by creating their own music and changed their sound and genre. and people saw that. it was new and exciting. it was not only because they where the underdog. now the big three labels really need to focus on their music on a global scale not only for asia. and that means no repetition but working with an old man who thinks he knows music will keep it old fashioned and not evolve. they are not to keen on trying something new because that was the formula that worked for them so why change that. Sorry if my english is not the best😬