Why Bitcoin Miners Will Never Make Money

[@richardlove5549]

If you want to make money mining gold...sell shovels. In this case, sell mining rigs.

[@crockett616]

Yup. Mine the miners.

[@BZentinela]

😊actually that how literally the first California millionaire made himself rich during the 1848 gold rush

[@arod1391]

Bingo

[@renoputra5219]

Even this has its own problems; when the BTC plummets, mining rig sellers choke on their own stocks😂

[@TrashwareArt]

They do more than that. They also mine with it before they sell them - and since they have the items first they get an unfair advantage.

[@jean-francoisturcotte6275]

This is a giant waste of precious electricity and electronic components. Just imagine what we could have achieved if all these resources had been put toward productive areas of the economy.

[@stijnvanbeers8905]

No not true gov money is a scam they printing money holle the time and elektrischity is used for everything u charge ur phone everyday for tiktok... Ect

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

People have committed horrible acts for money and the criminals are always in pole position with the law lagging behind.

[@Tobacc0]

Bitcoin mining seems to fulfill nearly all the conditions of the theoretical economic study model known as "perfect competition". In that model, no company can make a profit because as soon as they do, it attracts increased competition for that profit until the profit is reduced back to zero.

[@georgelin8498]

There are some miners that have have advantages (cost of power) that will profit more than others.

[@pennyether8433]

@@georgelin8498 No. They will earn more revenue per unit of kwhr deployed, resulting in more net income, but still hugely negative. This does not mean they will profit. Currently, even if electricity were free, there's not a single public miner that would post a positive net income. This is because contribution of power cost to the total cost of operating is quite low. This is because depreciation (even with the sandbagged values they apply) is a huge expense. When adjusted to a $/kwhr basis, it is usually 2-3x the cost of power. Salaries and stock based compensation are another major contributor, about 1-2x the stated cost of power. Neither of these values substantially improve at scale, as it requires more hardware (more depreciation) to scale, and it requires more salary (more employees to install, manage, etc) to scale. In total, removing energy cost altogether would knock out only 1/4th the total cost, at best. Simply improving energy cost to be better than competitors would reduce overall costs by a small fraction, but not nearly enough to recoup the overall net losses.

[@bobfrank279]

@@georgelin8498 Name a single miner that has posted a positive net income

[@ToySoldierman]

This video is *NOT* aging well. I've made a *fortune* buying *CleanSpark (CLSK)* the last 12 months.

[@bobbym6130]

​@@georgelin8498He just showed that nobody is profiting. Each must be gambling that they'll be the last man standing.

[@ThomasMooney-mw2eg]

can someone educate me on solar cloud farms?

[@AndrewSutherland-ub3hd]

its a crypto service that offers cloud mining with great offers nothing more

[@RobertIngram-zt3ew]

its a great company for cloud mining

[@JamesSmith-mu5it]

can i make over 0.5 Btc from there cloud mining service?

[@AndrewSutherland-ub3hd]

You can, but it depends on the mining machine you're currently using with them. Right now, I am using a custom miner

[@JamesSmith-mu5it]

i would give them a try this week

[@GerbenWulff]

I remember a couple of years ago a colleague of mine telling me he was going to buy a mining computer, that would make 100% return in 5 years, and me trying to explain what you just did. I don't know if he listened to me. He was planning to get expensive credit to buy the computer. I don't think he was very smart, but he thought that he was.

[@Frzned9x]

the best way to scam people out of their money is telling them they are smart and everyone else are stupid for not understand them Crypto was that.

[@TheRealJellyBomb]

I considered buying one of those rigs that doubled as a room heater, since I was moving into a house that used electric radiators as primary heating. My hatred of crypto and its bros eventually won out, so I didn't.

[@GerbenWulff]

@@TheRealJellyBomb That might actually be a decent reason to continue to mine crypto these days. Even when using old rigs. But only when it's cold.

[@TheRealJellyBomb]

@@GerbenWulff Yeah, that was my logic 😂 Turning on an electric radiator is functionally equivalent to turning on a mining rig, except the mining rig would actually pay back a little of the cost 😊 But this whole mining thing is a cancer on the environment, so I can't really support it 😂

[@carlahaiduk1878]

Crypto is made for people who think they're smarter than the others ...

[@hanst7218]

2:06 What problem? You can just log into your Interactive brokers account or other broker and buy US Treasury bonds, notes or bills on the open market directly. Literally takes 5 seconds and a funded account?

[@archingelus]

The problem is you did not pay attention, because that is the sponsor segment, if things are that easy and ppl are tokd such, nobody needs the sponsor 🤦‍♂️ marketing 101 at the very basic level possible

[@voxpopuli1280]

It was advertisement - so they have to say it is a problem to sell "a solution". I really dont like these hidden ads. You should at least say: "But first some news from our sponsor..." or somewhat like that.

[@luker.6967]

@@voxpopuli1280 well outside of the sponsors he keeps it pretty real, mans gotta get a bag

[@bmeht]

It was a shitty, slimy ad read. Repulsive.

[@archingelus]

@@luker.6967 what he meant is the segment should clearly be defined what is paid and not, and especially which are his thought and which are scripted words that are not his thought, at the end of the day, you watch the video to gain insight from his thought not from sponsors

[@david1999]

Investing in Bitcoin miners will make you money. The stock price of miners move with the price of Bitcoin. You pointed out miners like MARA and RIOT are not profitable. Which is true but if you look at the stock price of MARA in the beginning of 2021 it was at $11. By the end of the year the stock price rose to $77. The same can be said about RIOT.

[@egal1780]

8:32 I heard a good quote about that: "Houses never appreciate. Period. Land does."

[@doingbettereveryday]

Lies. My dads house is worth twice what it was five years ago

[@egal1780]

@@doingbettereveryday I will repeat myself: the House itself, the structe that are referring to, be It concrete, Wood, whatever lost in value. But the Land the House is Standing in More that made Up for the loss in the homes value. I'm pretty Sure that this is what you mean.

[@xXTedwarriorXx]

@@egal1780In real terms yes, the value of the building itself isn’t appriciating (unless it for example is a historical building that may itself increase in value, not just the land it stands on). However as we print more money, the actual building, the materials and all the work gone into constructing that building, goes up in value against the dollar since the supply of dollars increases faster than the supply of housing)

[@chessmagician2024]

@@egal1780 Even if this is true, it's not useful information. The appreciation of land is good enough that it will bring up the price of a house sitting on that piece of land more then the depreciation of the house itself. You need to live somewhere, so it is better to own a house (and live in it), and benefit off the land appreciation, then it is to rent a house and then own land without a house on it.

[@egal1780]

@@chessmagician2024 I agree. But the Point is that at some Point the House won't be inhabitable without some rennovations, meaning that the depreciation isn't Just a number from the IRS but actually based on the real world. Though there certainly are Times in which Land didn't appreciate, Like During late 2000, i.e. the great financial crisis.

[@frevazz3364]

Seems like an activity that shouldn’t exist. A giant waste of energy.

[@ToySoldierman]

Not at all. The Bitcoin miners power the immutable Block Chain.

[@xcw4934]

Your depreciation example seems to have mistakenly lumped together the value of the depreciating asset (house) with the non-depreciating asset (land). Your 65 year old house could be uninhabitable and ready to be demolished and actually be a liability but you could still be selling your property for 80 times what your grandpappy paid 65 years ago because the land is worth so much more.

[@TrashwareArt]

You can print as much dollars as you want, you can build as many houses as want (make more stories once you run out of land) There is nothing they can do to print more bitcoin. People who mine crypto do it at a loss because we know its the future. They are increasing the debt ceiling several times per years. There is a tsunami of money sitting in a bubble thats growing bigger and bigger just over our heads. I will feel quite comfortable with crypto in the future.

[@xcw4934]

@@TrashwareArt But the concept of value still requires people to put faith in it that it'll be worth something to someone else later and that's not a guarantee forever. Terra and Luna weren't worth a whole lot after people lost confidence in it so the fact that there's a finite supply doesn't automatically mean it's bound to increase in value. There is a limited amount of asbestos on this planet. It's a finite resource that can be exhausted if it's overmined and cannot be produced through industrial processes. I don't see a whole lot of people paying top dollar for asbestos though.

[@y4550]

@@xcw4934 the commenter you’re responding to didn’t say anything about a limited supply, he used “crypto” as a blanket term. Most of the biggest cryptocurrencies are actually inflationary (Ethereum, Solana, etc) including some that work off mining (like Dogecoin and Ethereum Classic). I do believe a finite supply plays a factor in how people value it, but you are right in saying that an asset with deflationary issuance is not guaranteed to become valuable. That comes with demand

[@cesarehipthenhopthenhip8377]

Boys n girls please make the comments more understandable 😂 not everyone got high IQ 😅

[@xcw4934]

@@cesarehipthenhopthenhip8377When you own land with a house on it, you can think of its value as being made up of the value of the land plus the value of the house separately. The value of land tends to rise but the value of the house tends to fall as it ages and starts falling apart. The video makes a mistake by not recognising these as separate so it's possible for a house to be worth less and less over time but the property as a whole still sells for big profit because the land it sits on rises so much more.

[@shawnl3151]

10:15 application specific not attribute

[@dhvanitdesai7426]

"Now that we've establisshed what bitcoin miners do, we can get into why they almost always lose money". Actually, establishing what they do and why is enough to come to that conclusion, hell its like the kids who spent so much effort trying to cheat on the test that it would've been less of a hassle studying

[@monolith2001]

9:20 As someone who has pulled and routed cable, I found that guy trying to wrap that zip tie tough to watch.

[@KarlFreeman-fe1nd]

That guy was awful, I kept yelling "Turn it around dammit!" Why was he making it so hard on himself?

[@kennyadvocat]

Miners need to get the latest hardware and hope they hit a good bull market. People that bought miners at the wrong times got rekt. If you bought a shit ton of miners at the end of 2013 you watched btc fall from $1200 down to $250. The problem is by the time the price recovered your miners were 2 or 3 models outdated and not profitable. Not to mention China would mine onnew miners months before they let anyone else buy any. Someone that started in 2015 had all new tech at cheaper prices and was profitably mining with btc under $300 a coin and rode a big bull market. Same situation people that got in Jan 2018, and the peak of 2021. ETH had several updates years back that made certain graphics cards no longer usable for mining as they needed more memory suddenly. And now you can't even mine ETH anymore. I'd rather own a huge data center and compete with AWS. Can sell server space to startups.

[@archingelus]

You don't need to get the latest hardware, your money is totally locked if you opt for ASIC miner which for some reason is the only mining method mentioned in the video along with pretty much most comments, off the shelf GPU can be liquidated easily unlike ASIC and contrary to your point of view, older gpu without LHR feature actually more valuable than newer one as they yield better hashrate, i also disagree with the depreciation since mining pretty much accelerates the destruction of the hardware so actually in my case by second year the hardware was sold at 70% discount and had it reached the 3rd year it would be worthless already

[@archingelus]

@@theindividualinvestor1 it doesn't matter from the network's standpoint, ASICS at its core is nothing more than a non general computing computer, like your pc without the junk and only exists for a single purpose

[@kennyadvocat]

@@theindividualinvestor1 exactly. You got in around Jan 2018 when there were tons of youtubers showing how to mine you were rekt. Most people bought new miners at peaks. Or bought a 2013 asic near the end of its cycle it wasn't good.

[@Liferoad371]

I was mining about 3 years ago with antminers and lost over $5000 I do not pay attention to Bitcoin anymore. you are 100% correct about Bitcoin mining.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

Almost ten years ago I thought about antminers but found they were beyond my expertise and budget.

[@axa897]

@ottopuppy You forget to mention long waiting times for best miners from China . I try as well lost money .

[@tixchicken]

What is the point of mining bitcoin after its all mined? They make money in transactions yeah but who the fuck would send crypto if your transaction is too expensive and who would mine if it doesn’t cover the overhead costs lol.

[@elixexo4011]

Bitcoin is a cult.

[@gagnon124]

You forgot to mentioned that they don't sell their bitcoins

[@JesusWins]

That's a false statement, plenty of miners sell to cover expenses and make money.

[@gagnon124]

@@JesusWins true, but the value of current bitcoin holdings is still an important metric to mention.

[@archingelus]

@@JesusWins that cannot be more correct, i always sold the bitcoin mined on weekly basis because i need to get the ROI ASAP and reduce risk as miners, and i think that is what a sensible miners would do

[@dandoran1313]

By 2050 Bitcoin is worth...

[@Paintboss-ld2hi]

Is there a reason you didn’t include Cleanspark? CLSK. They seem to be doing pretty good.

[@adamalton2436]

Solve a puzzle, get a wad of Monopoly money. How did this ever become a real thing?

[@aristyolim8832]

Because many people believed it can be exchanged to real money, so it does.

[@y4550]

Because it’s the best way we can think of to make a publicly auditable currency that has a fixed supply and low risk of transaction repudiation. It’s incentive structure also lends itself well to not having transactions easily censored.

[@crypto_que]

You think the dollar isn’t Monopoly money? When the bank runs out of fake cash it just prints more. Satoshi figured this out. If you don’t understand we’re not gonna explain it to you.

[@Healthycow]

I'm from the future to remind you that the United States is currently spending $1 trillion in 90 days. That's how this became a thing.

[@imnotusingmyrealname4566]

tech bros

[@markofdistinction6094]

I really like Charlie Munger's quote about cryptocurrency : "Its a bunch of idiots trading turds"

[@Johnnodonoughue]

Good luck 👍🏻

[@1greenMitsi]

take your tech tips from a boomer is like asking fish how to catch fish

[@JohnSmith-ur2ki]

Good goy. Listen to your parasite

[@R53Hole]

at least turds could be used for fertilizer

[@ridhosamudro2199]

​@@1greenMitsiknowing what a fish would be a sucker for is like, top tier tips a fish could've given advice for fishing actually

[@garygarside9782]

i can imagine waking up in the matrix, only insted of making power, the feilds were generating 1 bit coin

[@TheZackofSpades]

I must’ve listened to over a dozen explanations for how Bitcoin is generated. It’s impossible for me to understand at this point. It just sounds exactly like what someone in a suit would tell me when they are taking everything I have ever owned and telling me it’s all my fault.

[@MionMikan]

Basically, in the simplest words possible, when people send and receive bitcoin, somebody has to process those transactions and update the blockchain. Bitcoin miners are people who volunteer to process those transactions, and if they're lucky enough to be chosen to process the transaction, they're rewarded with a bitcoin.

[@lucasglowacki4683]

It is your fault!!

[@Nick-gj6je]

Bitcoin is generated when someone correctly solves a hard math problem. Be the first to solve the math problem, get some good boy Bitcoin tendies.

[@lucasglowacki4683]

@@MionMikanone thing that was left out is how they compete for those rewards. Which is by solving complex mathematical equations. The complexity of these equations is measured in said hash rate, thus the sites or nodes with the most powerful and latest mining rigs win most of the bitcoin rewards. As a side note, most cryptocurrencies need miners or validators based on the protocol. Wether it’s proof of work or proof of stake (there’s also proof of ownership but it’s more obscure). These use different types of processors. One of the reasons NVIDIA has such a high valuation is it’s graphics cards used for Ethereum mining…this has recently switched to proof of stake and is no longer mined but validated by nodes controlled by people who own at least 32 Ether or pools.

[@saidalcapone3964]

There is bitcoin paper and also thounsand journals on crypto, you just lazy to read

[@dracorex426]

Why would anyone be dumb enough to invest in a crypto mining venture that isn't profiting? It's not like a normal business where you can build up infrastructure and/or a supply line and then profit without having to invest more, mining rigs wear out or become obsolete too quickly for that. And you can't run your competitors out of business or build up a customer base and then raise prices because Crypto doesn't work like that. Sure you could mine Bitcoin and then not sell it until the price is high enough to profit, but at that point it would be cheaper to just buy Bitcoin instead of mining it. If a mining operation isn't currently profitable, there's no reason to believe it ever will be.

[@dylanjimenez1952]

Discuss VINFAST and INEOS grenadier car brands

[@CommodoreFloopjack78]

Crypto and NFTs: Absurd wastes of time and resources, but really cool to tell your hipster friends about. Constantly.

[@robertewalt7789]

And mining uses huge amounts of electric power. And most of the miners’ computers work and work, but don’t get anything. Consider depreciation. A two year old mining rig is much slower than new rig, thus will never win the Bitcoin. May is well throw it out.

[@LesserAndrew]

You bring up a good point. Unlike the real estate business, I think some Bitcoin miners are understating their depreciation expenses.

[@Phlegethon]

This is one of the most idiotic concepts devised this century and we’re only a fifth of the way through

[@TheFrankvHoof]

There are a whole lot of inaccuracies in this video: 1: the amount of BTC a miner receives per block is NOT fixed, as users pay gas fees for their transactions, which are awarded on top of the BTC that is generated by the network. 2. Although you showed that big mining companies weren't profitable in 2021, you didn't show why. For all of them, this was due to 2 reasons: relocation of operations out of China, as well as reinvestment into their companies (i.e. buying more miners). 3. Historically, the revenue created from mining BTC has been more than enough to cover depreciation of miners. I'm not sure where you're pulling your info from, but you're simply wrong.

[@TheFrankvHoof]

Let's take Riot as an example. In 2021 they: -Acquired Whinstone (for $651M) -Acquired ESS Metron (for $50M) -Increased its mining rate by over 400% -Earned $213M in revenue from selling BTC -Increased amount of BTC on balance sheet by 3800 BTC If they had simply sold that 3800BTC at +/-$50k per BTC, it would have resulted in a net profit of $182M. Instead, they opted to keep that on their balance sheet. Combined with the near-total write-offs they had to do on their acquisitions, this resulted in a net loss of $8M.

[@TheFrankvHoof]

Let's also show some numbers for MARA (Marathon): - Revenue of $150M - Produced 3200BTC - PURCHASED another 4800BTC for $150M - Held approx 9000BTC on its balance sheet in early 2022. - Grew its hash-rate by 1800% - Reported a net loss of $36M So.. what if they sold that 3200BTC at $50k? Net profit of $124M

[@AApron]

Totally. Wallstreet Millennium maybe better off spending time and energy on other topics. Kind of a Bitcoin FUD video.

[@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067]

Lmao, calling someone "simply wrong" without factoring the volatility of the value of the thing you're mining - not to mention the price of the mining rigs being proportional to the market sentiment around cryptocurrencies. Just accept it's an entire ponzi and few people who came in with tons of money early won and 90% of the people lost. You're simply wrong.

[@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067]

@@AApron Ofc its a FUD video. Only big fishes who came in early win in crypto. It's a scam for youtube randoms like you.

[@raylopez99]

Excellent video by the WSM. One of the best I've seen, as typically the other stuff is something I already know.

[@raylopez99]

From the comments section there's a lot of b-hurt and cope from the crypto bros, lol, due to this video. WSM hit the spot.

[@archingelus]

@@raylopez99 well i'm yet to see sh1tcoin fanboys exists here, would be fun to read theirs

[@henryfitzgerald5857]

I'm 51 years old, and having just learned from this video what "bitcoin mining" is, I think it might be the single most stupid thing to have been invented during my lifetime

[@awesome-3310]

Crypto is a ticking bomb, starting with Tether

[@bitcoindaddy1]

tether owns $100B UST...USDT does two things, expand the USD hegemony and hold UST supplying demand for debt markets.....theres a reason why US hasnt shut stablecoins.

[@loh1870]

Yea it was in 2009 2013 2017 2021 ...I'm sure ur right

[@Kastinuk]

Tether collects billions in interest while not having to pay for deposits. I think they‘ll be fine.

[@mghq-mobilegamerzhq2533]

This is pretty true

[@Civilian95]

Educate yourself on bitcoin before you chat 💬

[@MrRedsjack]

The real question is if the Bitcoin miners are storing large amounts of the mined bitcoins instead of selling them all because they expect some extreme Bitcoin price like 100.000$ in the future. If that is the case the numbers might be misleading.

[@jakubprogramming29]

It's the case

[@darkgalaxy5548]

Every bitcoin exists on the blockchain & can be traced. There are no "secret" bitcoins, just unspent bitcoins.

[@bryanwigmore7224]

True, I think. Under accounting rules, the book value of mined Bitcoins would be the lower of the cost of mining them and their market price. An increase in price means they stand to make a big future profit on historically mined Bitcoins, even if recently mined ones are not very profitable.

[@loveandgamingxx1744]

Good video!

[@1stFoxmovie]

Like in a gold rush... Don't go mining the gold but sell the shovels...

[@auraguard0212]

So it's so competitive that no one wins?

[@AlphaCentauri24]

Bitcoin Mining - Purely energy wasting exercise.

[@nanayaw2000iob]

Spending real capital and power to generate intangible tokens which are continually decreasing in supply🤦🏾‍♂️

[@kaydog890]

As opposed to fiat currency?

[@1greenMitsi]

read more, assume less

[@owenb8636]

@kaydog890 yeah. As opposed to fiat currency. In 2021 only 1/3rd of bitcoin transactions were actually used for exchange of goods and services. You're all just waiting for the right time to turn it back into real money lol

[@1greenMitsi]

@@owenb8636 how many online transactions were there in the year 1997 do you think

[@Yami0to0hikari]

@@owenb8636 do u have a source for the statistics which you posted? 1/3 of all txn is a pretty high number honestly cause i cant find any companies in my area which accept cyprto.

[@jackofallglass165]

Asics really destroyed the way bitcoin mining was supposed to work, it allows bitmain to be the only producer of the machines and they can set the price to whatever they want. bitmain is basically scraping up all the mining profits in the cost of there hardware. eventually they'll go out of business once all these big farms fail. and allowing a mining company to be traded on the stock market is disgusting... its supposed to be decentralized, like it was when people were CPU and GPU mining BTC back before 2012.

[@leadingauctions8440]

Wait, so when the final bjtcoin would be given out, who would be left to varkfy their blockchaim when there is no more profit in it? The entire system is flawed?

[@lelolson3373]

They also get the transaction fees

[@leadingauctions8440]

@@lelolson3373 That makes more sense. Thank you

[@elixexo4011]

Fees are supposed to supplement the reward, currently miners get both the fee and the minted Bitcoin, fees are currently about $9 per transaction but they have gone up as high as $30 post Taproot update. Fees make up more of the block reward than even the minted Bitcoin but only so long as volume is high, more people using the network produces more fees, Bitcoin can only process about 6000 to 12000 transactions per block per 10 minutes. (The block time isn't hardcoded btw, it can be 8 minutes or 11 depending on how fast the nonce is found).

[@leadingauctions8440]

@@elixexo4011 Thank you for explaining that.

[@loveandgamingxx1744]

I made money from miners in 2020, and prob make even more now. Saying that, I do agree. I think a lot of miners will fail a year or 2 after this Halving.

[@FutureIsBetterThanThe80s]

Which mines to watch? And which do you think won't make it?

[@Brandon-yr9jb]

I don't know where you get your Bitcoin information.

[@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067]

Off all the suckers who believe bitcoin is good

[@TheSushiandme]

​@@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067shhhhh, I need miners to go up as today took a dump

[@1greenMitsi]

@@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067 no coiner

[@Drmikeburry]

Not true moving forward. They are valued on a premium to their NAV, and ability to be cash flow positive if they chose to be. For example, during havings, there is typically a drop in global hash rate due to some miners failing to be profitable and this is when the big boy mining companies consolidate the market further. Eventually there will only be a few mining companies and they will be worth a lot due to them having the ability to hold the most Bitcoin and grow their asset stack, support the network, and grow through acquisitions.

[@FutureIsBetterThanThe80s]

Which miners will survive? Any guesses?

[@Drmikeburry]

@@FutureIsBetterThanThe80sClsk, bitf, Mara, riot

[@flowinbinary8787]

It’s said the app is not available in your country

[@sikwee]

What about GPU mining?

[@nathishvel5725]

Makes me think that with the anonymous “decentralized” nature of bitcoin, that this whole cryptocurrency could be a ruse by the energy industry to inflate demand for electricity, therefore keeping energy prices high even in regions where there would be low demand. Or maybe not.

[@kwisatzhaderach1458]

Its the cashless controlled society we were warned about. Don't follow the regime? They shut you down digitally. They can trace everything. Monero fanbois are delusional.

[@y4550]

Maybe for companies in less developed places because miners typically flock to places with the lowest cost of energy. For a lot of miners this means building their own infrastructure or building partnerships with low cost energy companies (in countries where usage of electricity is a lot lower) to help scale their infrastructure. With the recent war, energy prices have gotten ridiculous and has further incentivized partnerships with miners to build renewable energy sources. This would allow both miners and companies to reduce the variance in their costs for energy expenditure, and hopefully rid future generations of their dependence on other countries for their energy needs

[@jakubprogramming29]

Most of the electricity that BTC mining demands is coming from cheap renewable sources. This means renewable plants are more profitable, leading to increased investments and more renewable plants being built. As a result energy becomes cheaper and more sustainable. Clear Win/Win.

[@bengardener8928]

crypto was creates to push chip development/ attract funds to that area, quantum computing etc.

[@georgelin8498]

Tulips

[@prula]

What is money?

[@TheSushiandme]

Fugazi fugezi

[@roegoleg]

It’s the hope that the value of bitcoin will increase forever. The gamblers will continue to bet up the coin and the miners and time their exit perfectly. The dream continues

[@full__tilt]

Bitcoin MUST go up forever, otherwise it will be worthless. There would be no reason to HODL if it stops going up because it means that it is better to hold fiat

[@fnorgen]

Therein lies the miner's problem. If you're reliant on a significant price increase to make a profit, then you'd be better off just buying the asset directly rather than faffing about with mining. At least if you've no alternative uses for the hardware. Though, it's a lot easier to market "crypto mining" to investors than straight crypto speculation. The former creates an illusion of continuing stable revenue.

[@TrashwareArt]

Duh, nothing can increase forever. The only reason why bitcoin is going up is because your dollar is decreasing in value - dont you know that? They printed more money in the past two years than has existed for the rest of the time of the country.

[@TrashwareArt]

And bitcoin already went down 80% from its all time highs. Several times. Its the cycle it follows. You can be a sore loser who whines about it for the rest of your life - or you can check it out now that the price is low. Your choice. Theres plenty of materials out there for anyone who is brave enough to do their own research.

[@y4550]

@@fnorgen You don’t need to rely on a price increase. Some miners are able to make a profit at current price levels. The main determinant is the amount of time you’re able to mine for at a certain price for electricity. There’s also derivative contracts miners can make on the overall network hash power that can further assist them in stabilizing their revenue

[@bc-guy852]

Incredible. The scale of these industrial facilities dedicated to this is almost beyond ability to reason... Just so weird - for essentially a FOMO market. Thanks for preparing this.

[@mikewoodman2872]

Agreed. People are spending gobs of money using nation-scale electrical power to mine intangible fluff that has zero intrinsic value or benefit to humankind, except that it can be traded with others so long as they too believe it has value. Otherwise, worse than useless to humanity. We are living in bizarro world.

[@y4550]

@@mikewoodman2872 what is “intangible” to you and why does it make a currency worthless? Most US dollars are digital, does that make them “intangible” and worthless as well? The problem Bitcoin tackles is the Keynesian belief that governments are capable of, and should, regulate the economy for the welfare of its people. Many Bitcoiners reject this belief and see value in a limited supply. There’s also an underlying belief in separation of money and state and the hope that Bitcoin will be a shared, but not centrally controlled, reserve asset for the world. At the very least it would help contain the debt spiral we find ourselves in today

[@ph318]

​@@mikewoodman2872everything you said is wrong.

[@mogambo4565]

Who is using bitcoin for daily transactions 🤔

[@DarkBloodbane]

Bitcoin mining is a huge waste of energy (literally) and time. Even if they got some bitcoins, they'd still need to find people willing to trade those bitcoins.

[@easye4329]

Im curious how miners getting forced out of the market due to halving profit margins will effect the total computational competition. In theory theres an equilibrium of cost as a function of competition needed to mine coins. And efficiency of scale. Companies might be betting on lasting lasting long enough for competition to go away and cost come down

[@duff16oz]

Thanks!

[@JesusWins]

5:21 I can't take advice from anyone who doesn't know that you can't mine btc with a computer anymore, you need an ASIC. Feel free to look that up.

[@PaulineMontagna]

This sounds to me like an enormous waste of electricity and other resources to create what? Imaginary money?

[@nielsdegraaf9929]

What u own now? Imaginary fiat money? Please learn how money works. No pun intended.

[@PaulineMontagna]

@@nielsdegraaf9929 my money might be a construct, but it’s a construct backed by a real country’s government and real banks with real assets. Bitcoin exists in the virtual world and could just disappear in a moment. You don’t even know who created it. But please, go out and buy Bitcoin and we’ll see who ends up with real assets and who is left with nothing.

[@weird-guy]

Fiat is “imaginary” but everyone accepts, with bitcoins almost no one accept and you need to exchange to fiat anyways so it is almost useless

[@justindressler5992]

The Bitcoin holders will modify the protocol to produce more coins thus, diluting the value of the current holders. Liquidity is a bad thing for Bitcoin value this is why Bitcoin will never be a currency. If it was liquid it price would plumit. Its the high demand and low supply that keeps the price high.

[@enviidakid]

Can you post the audio louder by like 50 % please ....

[@roastmaster2000]

I think 2011 to 2019 was the best year to mine bit coin.

[@ktktktktktktkt]

If this is correct, I'm curious, did they not do their due diligence before entering this industry? Or are they aware of the situation and just making money off the investors?

[@archingelus]

We did eth mining from 2021 during the crypto hype and fully exited at the onset of cryptowinter, come out with about 400% roi and additional 30-50% from liquidating the gpu and hardware which at that point was close to breaking point anyway, so mining can be profitble

[@samsonsoturian6013]

Not necessarily, but at least some are ponzi schemers and others are money launderers

[@BennieVredestein]

@@archingelus But thats an exception right?

[@archingelus]

@@BennieVredestein exception on what?

[@BennieVredestein]

@@archingelus Exception to the rule that mining on average is not profitable, or am i missing something?

[@erbol0011]

Miners can make money if electricity cheap enough. In my country because of cheap electricity, miners worked out with corrupted government to mine even, but mining was prohibited but not for people in power 😅. It became big problem because they use too much electricity. Nearby population have power outage often

[@doingbettereveryday]

Where do you live? 😢

[@Re3iRtH]

Kazakhstan?

[@kanoosh18]

Looks like you are from Kazakhstan 😅

[@HaimRich94]

That also happened in Venezuela, the military even stole imports (equipment) so they mine themselves

[@erbol0011]

I am from Kyrgyzstan. At first after countless miners get into Kazakhstan local started protesting against them. I didn't get at first why but now i know. Because if there are politics involved and politicians have stakes in mining they will rather let people suffer without electricity rather than stop mining. For Kazakh people it may be even more unbearable

[@bluefairy9683]

My question : if all miners are loss making , who comes to dig bitcoins ? If no one then how Bitcoin is able to available for trading and holding for value ? Even oil company can benefit by digging oil from sea and land …. And these oil companies benefit with decent premiums trading in stock market , this time bitcoin miners just like stud all dead far behind Bitcoin price , this is wired

[@mikevolley9933]

Wondering why you didn't include Bit Digital in your analysis. Ticker = BTBT

[@EEZYEEEE]

Wouldn’t using solar help offset all or some of the electricity costs? Also, these mining companies are probably reporting losses intentionally so they don’t have to pay taxes.

[@darthrex6267]

Lol this guy actually believes "Well the CEOs and Executives are still getting millions despite losing money company wide every year! It must mean SOMETHING" It means you are part of the scam lol

[@YouCanHasAccount]

You might think so. After all, it should make perfect sense to sell the energy to the grid when the price is high and mine when the price is low. But a solar farm or wind turbine have a lifespan of at least 20 years. You need to run it that long to get ROI due to the significant upfront construction costs. These crypto scammers don't expect to still be around decades from now.

[@TheFrankvHoof]

@@theindividualinvestor1 "Most large mining companies operate in environments where it's extremely unprofitable for them to operate" Yeah.. I'm going to need a source for that. Because most large mining companies actually choose to operate exactly in locations where it's most profitable for them (such as close to power plants).

[@sanyamYT]

if thats the thing breaking your business then you might as well just sell solar electricity and make money off that.

[@LesserAndrew]

​@@theindividualinvestor1 Very very little Bitcoin is mined from "free" natural gas. I searched the SEC filings for all the top petro companies and couldn't find a single reference to any large-scale operations. Even Shell, which has an entire webpage dedicated to promoting blockchain technology, doesn't talk about it. I've also been on the wait list for Crusoe Cloud for months without any indication that it's a real service. I'm beginning to think the "Bitcoin uses stranded energy" talk is just deflection from Bitcoin's terrible environmental toll and isn't a real thing.

[@GjZ2tNBUve]

bitcoin miners are bad at calculating profits and losses i guess, maybe? they need to introduce a guy that's sound financially to manage this aspect of the business otherwise they are just playing a losing game here, cost, profits, breakeven and all that stuff is the bread and butter of any businesses, you always gotta get that right first.

[@y4550]

Yeah it’s unfortunately a symptom of the broader tech market where most startups have normalized losing money in an effort to grow faster (even when they’re not growing in the right ways)

[@Mesozoic_mammal]

What a waste of energy and other ressources...

[@Ched_D_Bitcoiner]

correction for 11 minutes in the video a few publicily traded miners made money in 2021 for instance Hive Digitial (ticker Hive) & Bitfarms (ticker Bitf) both made profits that year

[@hudooguru2]

This was really well done. Thank you.

[@miro2424]

Depeciation and Difficulty Level doubling every 2 years will kill your profits.

[@bikerunswimjb]

energy technology efficiency and eve tual switch to data-center will boom them all

[@Alec_Tuttle]

So ur saying to short these stocks maybe a good idea

[@LesserAndrew]

Be careful about shorting. In the long run, I don't think they have a good business strategy. In the timeframe in which you'd be running a short, who knows what'll happen.

[@auraguard0212]

2140?! FFS, the main selling point of Bitcoin might as well not exist!

[@bitcoindaddy1]

gold market has been trading in range since gld etf 2003 yet has multinationals and jr miners stop getting funding? or gave up mining? gold price collapse? and gold mine facilities are stuck in most extreme govts and mining operations.

[@BoBandits]

Yay, new How Money Works 😉😊

[@kirishima638]

I’ll be happy to see this asinine trend die.

[@tarrasacid1612]

So you are telling us to short all these Bitcoin mining companies, got it.

[@egal1780]

If the share count is constantly increasing, while the share price stays flat and rises, the market cap needs to rise. Eventually the growth of the market cap will need to become too high, so that eventually it'll implode, or the economics suddenly change.

[@federicogalvagni2332]

Or mining rigs can keep up with halving, if hashrate can increment as price per block decrement they will keep up, but I'm not sure the will, also at somepoint they just can't keep loosing money forever

[@LesserAndrew]

Each mining rig is in competition with every other rig. If they suddenly doubled in power, it would be terrible for the companies highlighted in the video because they would have to throw away all their existing tech and replace it just to hold onto the same percentage of rewards.@@federicogalvagni2332

[@sirranhaal3099]

The information was great, and your final sentence was surgically edited (and should be typed into the description). But you didn’t factor in the X factor of Bitcoin being the internet of money. It’s inherently unpredictable, volatile, decadent-although it has been boring lately.

[@sutats]

It's all book cooking in this infantile cryptocurrency market.

[@Littlefire71]

The rise of bitcoin means the rise of black market

[@TheSushiandme]

It's getting more difficult for them to do that now. You can track everyone

[@WiCapitalco]

Nvda etc made the money

[@loveandgamingxx1744]

Btc miners are cranking. $MARA $RIOT $WULF and even $MIGI is up over 80% and we didn't even hit The Halving, interest rate cuts or Spot ETF. Exciting times 😊

[@olehyankovskyi7112]

It was only because of closure of shorts positions

[@mikeynth7919]

@7:30 sure, the electricity costs are low for that company, but what other expenses do they have that may make them unprofitable?

[@jrmcpuff-n-stuff7524]

If the miner earns bitcoins from solving complex equations or puzzles as you call them ware does the puzzle come from if computer generated then who’s computer generates it

[@TheFrankvHoof]

Nodes pool together transactions into blocks. The headers for those blocks are then sent to miners (along with a target threshold (difficulty)) Miners then generate a random nonce for the header, and calculate a hash based on that nonce (and the contents of the header). Sort of like a checksum. If that hash is close enough (based on the threshold) to what should be the 'correct' value, the block is accepted, and the miner is rewarded. Put simply, the hash for the nonce needs to result in '000000XXXX', where the number of Xs (random value) decreases as difficulty increases. Since a hash is a one-way function, and the has is based both on the nonce and the contents of the block, the only way to find a nonce that fits is to randomly try nonces until you find one that does.

[@armacanqui]

B-but! “Crypto is the future, bro!” 😂

[@truth.speaker]

I'd be careful about mocking it Do you understand how incredibly massive the debts held by global governments are? Would you leave your money in a bank that held tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt for each and every person it interacts with? What if they promised their token was backed by absolutely nothing? What if they said "we will print a LOT more every year, especially in times of crisis" would you trust them or would you rather go to the bank that says "we have a fixed amount which cannot go up and absolutely no debt anywhere to anyone. We have customers in every country"? It would be foolish to trust one, wouldn't it?

[@ingenieroriquelmecagardomo4067]

@@truth.speaker Yes because banks are backed by governments you doodoo head. Who's going to come claim the USA's debt? The Aliens? Government debt is the safest type of debt. Meanwhile crypto is backed by twitter terminally online shillers who keep believing it will go to the moon.

[@ThePeltsii]

Crypto is future if you understand how our current money system works.

[@hoangle2483]

@@truth.speaker Wake up, kid. All the mega whales who invested early in cryptos have already cashed out, exited, and moved on to AI. YOU ARE among the unfortunate ones left holding the bag. Take the L, and go get an actual job.

[@truth.speaker]

@@hoangle2483 what on chain data are you relying on? And personally, I believe a more widely distributed coin is better than one controlled by a few wealthy individuals who could collapse the market on demand

[@halfik83]

At some point we will get to technical issue with making trassistors smaller. It will slow down progress when it comes to new, more efficient mining rigs.

[@Mr.Muckington]

I mean are those ppl rich from being early miners just A.I 😂

[@impactfulcapitalistsclips]

During the oil rush, the companies who made money were the ones who sold shovels and picks - not the speculator. Lesson - the mining rig manufacturers are the winners

[@TheMarc477]

Yep Nvidia made so much money from miners

[@archingelus]

@@TheMarc477 check your facts again, they along with AMD actually TRIES to stop by implementing LHR to future version of cards so it cannot be used to mine crypto, NVIDIA made a lot of money betting on the AI Infrastructure not crypto hype

[@oakpurple]

That was actually the Gold rush😂

[@LesserAndrew]

I'd love to be in a hardware business where my customers have to come back to me every other year and there's no secondary market.

[@Sephiroth3000]

Yes, similarly, crypro content creators are the ones getting rich

[@Foxyfreedom]

Mt. Gox happened, it didn’t stop Bitcoin from exploding. How is FTX or whatever any different. Bitcoin is resilient. Miners will make money in the long run

[@carpediem4512]

😂😂 People are gullible. Shitcoin.

[@LesserAndrew]

Per the video, they still lost money even when Bitcoin was trading for more than $60,000. When prices go up, mining difficulty increases. When prices go down, the difficulty also increases, but not as quickly. It's a terrible business.

[@Foxyfreedom]

@@LesserAndrew they don’t make money until the price explodes. Then their mined btc become so valuable they could sell for a profit

[@ccrider8483]

If I recall correctly, wasn't it originally understood that there would only be a given number of coins (21 million). According to this video that number will not be issued untill 2040. My question is how will the miners be paid after that date? Does anyone really know how many coins have currently been issued? I personally don't know anyone who as actually bought a good, service, or commodity with a bitcoin, which makes me wonder what practical purpose bitcoin or other crypto currencies actually serve. Too much like gambling for me.

[@EdwinSteiner]

How miners will be paid: Everyone issuing a Bitcoin transaction can add a little "tip" going to the miner who eventually includes this transaction in a block. These tips are called transaction fees and the higher your tip is, the more avid miners will be to include your transaction and the faster it will be confirmed. The theory is that when no more Bitcoins are given as mining rewards, the miners will live from the transaction fees alone. It's not clear to me that that can really work because as you say, Bitcoin transactions are useless. Number of coins issued: Yes, it is known. You just need to look at the whole blockchain from the beginning to the newest block and add up all the block rewards. That's the number of Bitcoins mined so far. There may be some small ambiguity for the newest blocks if not all nodes agree what the newest valid block is. As for practical purpose: There is none.

[@trogdorstrngbd]

After the last BTC is minted, the miners will be paid in transaction fees only.

[@y4550]

The creator of the video left out an important contributing factor to miner payouts (I’m guessing from ignorance rather than malcontent). Every transaction broadcasted to the blockchain has to include a payment to the miner who will process their transaction. This number has historically continued to rise with respect to the IS dollar equivalent in value (due to Bitcoin’s price appreciation), but can also go up in Bitcoin depending on demand since there’s a hard cap on the number of transactions that are processed in every block. As for usage, it’s pretty low globally outside trading but it’s non-zero. El Salavador has adopted Bitcoin as legal tender and 14% of businesses have reported conducting a Bitcoin transaction between September 2021 and July 2022. Elsewhere it’s used in small pockets of enthusiasts and it’s usage has only been growing over time. Since transactions require fees to be paid to miners, most of these everyday payments are done on the Lightning Network, which is a technology that utilizes Bitcoin transactions as checks that are notes broadcasted onto the blockchain until one of the participating parties want to settle their funds on the blockchain

[@ZanathKariashi]

they're mostly for buying drugs, laundering money, getting scammed in crypto "games", and buying pizzas.

[@jlindsley9288]

And there are 19,457,427 BTC in circulation as of Block 803192 about 10 min ago.

[@joerodriguez5079]

I wish crypto would just disappear

[@reallysilly3410]

But then.. I would have to use google drive instead of filecoin and I would spend more money on cloud storage-

[@TheSushiandme]

You can't... too many scammers/frauds

[@tokroni]

Make money? As in fiat money? We thought Bitcoin is money

[@EdwinSteiner]

It's not.

[@weird-guy]

It’s a investment, although crypto lovers say it is a currency but I don’t know any shop that accepts btc

[@me-myself-i787]

Marathon Digital made money last year.

[@cpm1003]

This is insane. What a waste of electricity!

[@newhavencon-py5yy]

Sell a house built today in 30 years for a profit? What are you high?

[@onesunghero]

5.5% interest on Treasury bonds is still less than the 8% inflation we've been seeing.

[@viewtifuljon8105]

I think people are banking on inflation going back down whilst the bonds will remain the same.

[@amirz3468]

inflation in the long term is around 2-3% and inflation rn is 3% not 8%, it came down a lot.

[@MistaTofMaine]

​@@amirz3468history wise inflation is much lower but we have couple more years under current administration so I doubt they will pull back reckless spending bills.

[@xiphoid2011]

Inflation is down to 4%. Treasuries actually make money now.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

Outdated. 7-8% was last year. This year is a fraction of that. Besides, all the money it's costing you now is moneu you got during QE

[@amandasmith1920]

you can absolutely make money mining bitcoin. If you can steal electricity.

[@alexanderpalmer7565]

What about transaction fees?

[@archingelus]

that only applies when you interact with the blockchain

[@kuukeli]

thank you for the video

[@bartbieniek7318]

Historically price of btc was always corellated to the average cost of producing btc, factoring in rigs. What you just said is like saying Uber Eats worldwide will never make money because the cars in thier US market depreciate.

[@ZanathKariashi]

Uber Eats doesn't own their cars and aren't liable for any of those expenses, so it's a poor example. they pay literally nothing except their independent contractor's commission, costs for maintaining the app, and whatever expenses are needed for setting up arrangements with restaurants.

[@loveandgamingxx1744]

Good to get in now and ride the wave when ETF and The Halving hits 😁

[@yonkodonny3778]

What about Ordinals? Miners don’t only get money from mining of BTC but from fees to transact on the network itself

[@Jeez001]

Funny enough chinese manufacturera usually mine for a month or so before selling the device to these miners overseas 😂. They are only ones making $$