Why build a Proa? A weird and (hopefully) wonderful sailing experiment

My next project is to build a 26ft racing Proa (Outrigger sailing canoe).
Here's a brief overview of the what and why.
Edit: sorry can’t work out the link in the video trick!
Click ⬇️ for Part 1 of Snow Petrel Down Under
• Why build a Proa? A we...
Music: bensound.com

[@laur-unstagenameactuallyca1587]

you explained all of this so well!!! I've been obsessed with proas since I was 17 (19 now) but am still a newbie to boating outside of the basic terms. countless reads on proaforums I still couldn't find anyone who could explain to me why they declined since the 70s/80s and their "shortfalls" preventing people from adopting them more widely in layman's terms. I think the proa is stuck at where the more popular multihulls - tris and cats - were in their formative years and no one thought they'd work. But it's a bit sad to see the boat design forgotten so much outside of it's homeland

[@MattTucker]

Thanks Lauren, I'm glad it made sense and cleared things up! I'm still hoping one day they will come into the mainstream again. That's a big part of why I am doing this project.

[@theinspector1023]

In the early '90s I contemplated an arrangement with a canted rig mounted on the outrigger, for a stable all weather cruising proa (before Sailrocket existed, I have to say). The idea was/is that the harder the wind blew the more lift the rig produced to counter the heeling force. A great disadvantage of this arrangement would be the temptation to avoid reefing, which would ultimately still be necessary for structural/control reasons. It would also be likely to be wider than it was long, which might raise a few eyebrows, and make it unpopular in a crowded roadstead. Plus it would be an 'Atlantic' proa like Cheers, which might raise yet more, more traditional, eyebrows. The proa is such a marvellous and adaptable concept. Keep up the good work. Looking at the date makes me think you've probably built it. I hope it's come up to your expectations.

[@MattTucker]

Interest idea, I guess at some point it would lift off and cartwheel down the bay but definitely some serious potential as sailrocket showed. Yes bot is complete though still tweaking her. I need to get another update video out. Life and work can be very inconvenient sometimes!

[@markthomasson5077]

Not sure the leeward foils are a good concept, so looking forward to seeing if it works. So far the theory is that they reach optimum speed just before the outrigger lifts. I would stick with a lee pod, it is going to save you when not moving. My small cruising proa concept has a custom dinghy instead of a pod. For a racer, how about a foil that sticks out above the water, in the form of a thick wing that has enough buoyancy to right the boat. A feature of this would be to make the foil hinge upward, held down with strong springs, so over at 90deg the foil hinges up 90deg, still giving max righting. An idea from .....name on the tip of my tongue, Australian now not with us, he had a foil lifting the outrigger, at first glance sounds the opposite of what you want, but should reduce outrigger drag whilst still having nearly all righting moment.

[@MattTucker]

Thanks for the thoughts Mark, I agree on the benefits of a lee pod in certain situations. I guess for me the point of the leeward foils is not to save a capsize it's to provide extra righting moment for high speed/wind sailing. Where a pod generally stops you capsizing once you get over 45-60 degrees the foils will stop you getting to that point and also provide lift to the main hull which is taking all the weight of the boat once the Ama is flying (Which I intend to be doing at all times). I also have a pod in the form of the main platform where the track is and this will help prevent a capsize if it gets to that point though it wasn't my original intention. I do like your idea for a wing foil, I think though if you have enough buoyancy in the mast and you keep the tip slightly to leeward of the main hull you shouldn't get into a negative stability situation because if the boat is lying on it's side floating on the main hull and the top of the mast is slightly to leeward the Ama will still be providing a small amount of righting moment and will slowly bring you up. It will be interesting to see how this plays out with my boat having the foils and the pod and I will definitely be testing it for your viewing pleasure!

[@renegadefunkstar]

Go Matt! Awesome project - great to see you starting in on it!!

[@MattTucker]

Thanks bro! Can’t wait wait to take you for blast sometime!

[@miketeale5672]

This has the potential to be hugely interesting to watch, but hugely expensive to be the person doing all the work and generating all the resource. Good luck with every aspect of it.

[@MattTucker]

Thanks Mike, it good to know that it interests some people. Yes this prototype is costing more than I would like and that’s is with a fair few compromises. My plan is to build a bigger one once I’ve worked out the flaws in this one. That will be a serious business which I will likely need some kind of support for. Otherwise I’ll just have to keep saving for a few decades!

[@ianaitken1136]

Well done Matt. I like the idea of the leeward foil but you will find that a T foil has much less drag. When a lifting foil breaks the surface it introduces air down the low pressure side and the lift reduces markedly but the drag remains. Please keep us informed of your progress. I wish I lived just down the road from you so I could come give you a hand and keep you motivated.

[@MattTucker]

Thanks for the support Ian. Yeah it would be great to have another Proa person around but don’t worry motivation isn’t an issue! Yeah I’m hearing you about the efficiency of the T vs V foil I’m just not sure I can confidently engineer a control system for a T foil. I also plan to sail solo so need it to be reasonably low input/passive. I’ll keep it in mind and see what I can come up with. Did you manage to get out on yours at all this summer?

[@ianaitken1136]

Fair comment, must always keep in mind to only add lightness and simplicity. Yes we did quite a bit this past summer. Two cruises in the Hauraki brine for a total of 20 days. So Jacknife is tucked up in the shed for the winter with just a small list of improvements to be done.

[@MattTucker]

Ian Aitken Ian Aitken that’s fantastic Ian, I’m glad to hear that you got some good use out of her and only a small list of improvements! That’s got to be a win. Do you have any videos or pictures?

[@TRYITON01]

Love your boat Ian, looked on with great envy.

[@atomicsmith]

I'm not much of sailor, but I've always thought proas were interesting. keen to see your project progress. Best of luck!

[@MattTucker]

Thanks Adam! Yeah something a bit different, hopefully I’ll have another vid up soon. She’s coming along slowly but surely!

[@atomicsmith]

@@MattTucker Curious about your rigging. looks like your mast is canted one direction and you only show one jib. How will you shunt it to the other side?

[@MattTucker]

Good question, I haven't really detailed that part in the video so I'll try to do that in the next video. The mast is straight fore and aft but the foot will be about 1.5m to windward. It will cant to leeward so that the top is roughly straight above the main hull. The boom is similar to an aero rig (with stays) so it will extent forward of the mast and this is where the tack of the jib will attach (the forestays that attach to the hull are only to hold the mast up). So when you shunt the mainsail swings around the leeward and the jib swings around the windward of the mast. Does this make sense??

[@islandvibez]

Polynesians, Micronesians, Melanesians after watching this; What can I say except you're welcome ☺

[@MattTucker]

Thanks mate!

[@deltahunter2302]

started with Austronesian. In order.

[@islandvibez]

@@deltahunter2302 you are 100% correct! Austronesians are the earliest group or humans to sail beyond the visibility of their coastlines. From Madagascar to rapaRapa nui, hawai'i, and Maritime Southeast Asia, they're all one big family that originated from Taiwan and east asia ultimately.

[@Seafariireland]

Go for it and best of luck!

[@MattTucker]

Thanks mate!

[@richardprice6840]

Sitting in my easy chair when I noticed a model Proa from Truk in micronesia

[@heathbarry6015]

I love the idea, keep at it!

[@MattTucker]

Thanks Barry, glad you like the idea! You never know until you try it!

[@wadetarzia]

Interesting project! I wonder what kind of drag comparison there is between the leeward lifting foil idea and the lee-pods that Russel Brown has found so effective? (Though he was a cruiser more than a racer). Good luck, and I will enjoy following your project.

[@MattTucker]

Thanks Wade! Yeah I guess the main difference between the foil and the Lee pod is that the foil will be further away to leeward so create more lee helm drag. It will also be in the water to a varying degree at all times whereas the pod is only in the water when you are at a fairly decent healing angle. In terms of overall drag the foil should be more efficient due to the gains that are made being a hydrofoil vs a planing/displacement surface which the pod is. There’s only one way to find out! Thanks for following the project.

[@recidivist11]

I looked at the foil concept a few years ago, the big issue i found was the need to change the angle of attack once shunted, how are you going to work around this. I love the idea of a Proa it is a pity that there are so few who think like us. you will spend a lot of money for your dream but keep at it.

[@MattTucker]

Hi Pedro, Thanks for the messaeg. I think the world just has to many sheep to be honest. I seem to be afflicted with the curse of trying to do everything differently (aka the hard way!). Yes it will probably be a lifetime money drain but I feel like I can not rest until I have experimented to my satisfaction. My foils will rotate 180/360 degrees so they are always the most efficient profile for the direction of the boat. Because the boat always stops during a shunt I will rotate them the moment before I get headway in the new direction.

[@recidivist11]

@@MattTucker right. one system i saw some where had foils with no leading edge IE flat on the bottom with a symmetrical curve on top , the angle of attack was adjusted on each tack I think the designers name was Joseph Norwood jr It may have been in a book called High speed sailing....ah Something I read in the Eighties. Great attitude! we mst chat one day I would love to get a look at the Proa sometime :)

[@MattTucker]

Yeah that’s definitely an option Pedro but I think with foils you just lose so much efficiency when you start making compromises. In my experience on the couple of Proas I have sailed on, rotating the rudders around is not a big drama so hopefully it will be fine. The idea with this prototype is that if something doesn’t work or I feel like another options could be viable I will experiment and change things so I’ll see how it goes. Of course if you are ever in Hobart look me up and I will take you for a spin!

[@jordanwestrupp]

Subscribed!

[@MattTucker]

Thanks Jordan! 🤙🏻

[@tinytree100]

Hey Matt, why not have a single hull with foil assist on both sides ??

[@MattTucker]

Good question Art, that’s basically what Hydroptere had and it proved to be incredibly fast but rather unstable. She had the speed record for a while but when they tried to take her offshore the full reliance on foils led to a few catastrophic capsizes. The IMOCA 60s have more of a foil assisted monohull setup with canting keel etc and they are much more seaworthy but not as fast as a multihull. I guess I see my concept as being a bit of both and hopefully the best of both but we’ll see!

[@halstedmorris35]

Have you read PROJECT CHEERS? Are you building a Atlantic Proa? My father owned CHEERS and I sailed on her many days.

[@MattTucker]

No I haven’t read Project Cheers but I’d be keen to look it up. She is a legendary boat for sure! I’m building a Pacific Proa. I think the Pacific set up works well with the added hydrofoil and becomes the best of both worlds.

[@halstedmorris35]

@@MattTucker , check out cheersdicknewick.com

[@Lesserthannone]

Foil will generate weather or lee helm, how will you combat this?

[@MattTucker]

Yeah it should create lee helm which I think i think is a good thing in a Proa. The unbalanced nature of the interaction between the Drag of the Ama and propulsive force of the sail on the main hull can make controlling a shunt very difficult in my experience. The foils being offset to leeward should balance that out. Of course the balance is much less of an issue once you get moving but the foils should create significantly less drag that the leeward Ama of a trimaran so I can’t see them ever creating too much lee helm.

[@CloudElve]

@@MattTucker If the lee helm proves to be a problem, then assuming you have one foil for each tack, you could move the foil a bit further forward to counteract this. The C-foils on trimarans also tend to be a bit further forward than the CE / centerboard, which helps counteract what would otherwise be a lot of lee helm from the ama. Very cool project, I'm looking forward to seeing your progress, and how it sails!

[@MattTucker]

@@CloudElve Just realized I must have been a bit drunk or something when I replied to the original message! Not very eloquent... Thanks Marco, the plan is to have both foils in the water at all times like a canard rudder system and they just rotate around 180 degrees. I will then play around with the offset angle to get the windward lift balance right between the two. Hopefully that makes sense.. It's hard to describe without drawing, maybe I'll include some more detail in my next video. Coming soon hopefully!

[@user-uw4zl6cl7s]

Очень доступно хоть и английски й. Не понимаю все понял))

[@socrate570]

Your proa is to complicate and expensif for nothing. Possible to do easyer for free or nearly...

[@MattTucker]

Thanks for the feedback, if you have any specifics on how I can make it for free that would be super!

[@MattTucker]

Yeah I agree with you about the Proa being more of a combination between a monohull and a multihull. With that in mind I guess a good way of looking at it for me is that the AMA is the bulb of the keel but above the water rather than below. The extra weight on the main hull as the AMA comes out is counteracted by the foil lifting to leeward of the main hull and also provides a bit of extra dynamic stability as the speed increases and the foil gets further under water. Like the modern IMOCA 60’s I’m not sure that adding weight to the main hull would be the best option for optimising speed but and interesting idea. It would give it a bit more positive righting moment as you got to the tipping point where the AMA is no longer providing righting moment because it is too high in the air. I look forward to seeing some concept pictures of your design.

[@markthomasson5077]

Christian SANDON PIERRE . Some disagree, fastest craft for your bucks. Longer main hull, only one outrigger to pay for.