Why China is Flooding Europe with Cars!

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How is China able to sell European drivers so many cheap cars? Customs data shows that Chinese EV shipments to the European Union have increased by 361% since 2021.
All over the world, Chinese automakers are taking market share which is threatening European automakers.
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[@PBoyle]

Get a 7-day free trial and 25% off Blinkist Annual Premium by clicking here: bit.ly/PatrickBoyleJan24 or scanning the QR code.

[@typxxilps]

profits are bigger here in europe than in china. cars are not best but good average. they can beat any in price and american cars are not competitive, not even tesla. VW owns parts of saic as other

[@kevintewey1157]

You need to show your information how the real estate crash made people more broke when Chinese are still saving money, which Americans are not doing at all, 60% of us only having a thousand for the next emergency you are bias is showing again and everything is relative but you don't show that

[@kevintewey1157]

Go interview Brian berletic of the new Atlas ..... before you continue to make a fool of yourself in front of every single one of your listeners

[@kevintewey1157]

Jesus man don't leave a stone unturned😅

[@kevintewey1157]

Dont remind people that China's future is not dependent on exports again bias

[@Argus-ut8gi]

Countries that called for free trade began to engage in trade protection. When they have a manufacturing advantage, they will tell you the importance of free trade; when they lose that advantage, the opposite is true.

[@sejarahnow4991]

that is called hypocrisy

[@calisto2735]

Dumping through gov subsidies is not "free trade" though...

[@fofoqueiro5524]

Free trade is an excuse to occupy the other side's market when you have the upper hand.

[@Argus-ut8gi]

@@calisto2735 Yes, there is enough of a toolkit of lies in the toolbox. Think about how they suppressed Huawei and how they prevented the Netherlands from exporting high-end lithography machines to China.etc.

[@michaelotieno6524]

@@calisto2735 Did you miss out on the part where US/EU car manufacturers also get subsidies - or to use the more hypocritical word tax incentives and tax credits.

[@MeganoOdles]

In China they call it subsidies, in the EU it is called grants..

[@SethPlato01]

@@fishcane1 free market, unless you are winning, then sanctions

[@guochi]

我刚刚用中文也提到了这一定。真是活该这些傲慢的人落后！

[@nfuryboss]

EV will be going for a bust. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4CqZq2olLClpac

[@passby8070]

​@magicsmurfy yep, it's a legalized corruption...

[@gwhlin]

EU investigation into dumping and subsidies of Chinese cars? It's funny that the same car is half as cheap in the Chinese market as in the European market. Mercedes Benz, Tesla, Audi are both. That is to say, BYD's pricing in Europe is actually twice that of China. Mercedes Benz, Tesla, Audi are both.

[@orionmedivh5859]

"China subsidizes this, subsidizes that", but when EU and US are also doing it, which Tesla gained a significant amount of benefits from, it is considered "free trade". However, they cry out "unfair practices" like little babies once they realized they are losing the competition.

[@rahadityap2375]

They didnt called it "subsidizes" They called it "Grant and Fund"

[@Teddy-ic6nj]

They're a bunch of hypocrites

[@CorporateShill66]

Tesla is finished

[@gumpyoldbugger6944]

@@rahadityap2375 or tarriffs.

[@danielskate117]

What a bunch of brainwashed idiots.

[@calvinblue894]

Well EU wanted China to go Green.. So that's what China did..

[@guill90]

Uh no 👎, they make green products on the worst way possible. E.g. toxic lakes full of heavy metal sludge from rare earth mining to make EV components.

[@Flitalidapouet]

They even greened real deserts, only country in the world to succeed in large scale. Western country talk about it, make power points, tell us all the good idea they have. Take thousands of dollars to do conferences, and does nothing .

[@everyhandletaken]

EU probably wants them to be charged over USB-C too 🥲

[@physchir]

EV does not equal green. Maybe in political speak, but not in practical speak.

[@calvinblue894]

@@physchir It takes the first step.. Don't expect perfection.. There will be further technologies to build from there

[@davidu5597]

EU bureaucracy: you must transition to zero-emission vehicles as we are banning ICE vehicle sales in 203X. EU consumers: start buying Chinese EVs using subsidies they paid for through taxes. EU bureaucracy: no not like that!

[@Arigator2]

You think China pays for things with Taxes?

[@wotermelon_]

Genesis 2:15: "The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." Self-proclaimed devout Christians: *NO*

[@controlfreak1963]

Chinese EV's are not only horrible, the companies that make them won't even be able to support them in the future. Also, the EU and the US converting to all EV in the 2030's is a laugh. I'm speaking as someone that understands that not only do we not have the electrical infrastructure for all EV cars, it will take decades to build and most likely will require natural gas turbines for a portion of the grid. EU doesn't have easy access to natural gas now that Russia is gone but they can get oil far easier. Solar and Wind are not going to fill out your entire grid. France has nuclear but Germany just closed all their nuclear power plants.

[@daciefusjones8128]

you sound like a chinese shill.

[@GeoffO856]

​​@@controlfreak1963Agreed. I highly doubt any EV company in the PRC would allow auditors from foreign companies in their factories to ensure compliance with EU regulations. BYD = Burns Your Driveway

[@krajorama1]

I'm surprised you didn't mention that apparently BYD is going to build a factory in Szeged, Hungary (EU) to build EVs.

[@tooltalk]

shame on Hungary

[@lorenzom7237]

yes but the batteries have to come from China anyway

[@mjabb02]

​@@lorenzom7237CATL is opening up factory in Hungary to make EV battery. I believe BYD will also open up battery factory there too.

[@tooltalk]

@@lorenzom7237 >> yes but the batteries have to come from China anyway

[@Mr-ro6cl]

His many arguments are just done by lips

[@MGZetta]

Fun fact: All of Chinese EV subsidies in the last 20 years is less than the US war funding in 2023.

[@sayaandyangsaya2756]

US government: War is a big business, at least for our military industrial who have great influence in our government policy.

[@imakevideos5377]

Yeah the supposed "subsidies" are almost all on the consumer side so china doesn't actually give subsidies directly to the companies

[@JohnLee-db9zt]

Fun fact. We don’t care.

[@leesarson2853]

@@JohnLee-db9zt Fun fact I sure do

[@MGZetta]

@@JohnLee-db9zt We can tell you couldn't ignore it. 🤣

[@MeetYourCows]

When China doesn't subsidize renewables we criticize them for pollution/climate change. When China does subsidize renewables we criticize them for subsidies/flooding. Very interesting.

[@gutenmorgen9626]

Nah bro, false equivalency. China is criticised for pollution and exacerbating climate change because of its coal-powered industries. It’s the world’s top importer of coal. No one is complaining about their use of green tech. The complaint is the use of dirty industries. They are doing both. Don’t fall victim to quick but meaningless soundbytes

[@tooltalk]

>> When China doesn't subsidize renewables we criticize them for pollution/climate change.

[@Metapharsical]

CCP 🇨🇳 *is* pollution.

[@MA-go7ee]

No, China is criticised for building coal plants and lying about it

[@yl128pang3]

​@@tooltalk , The Ungrateful West never thank China for burning millions tons of fossil fuel in the factory owned by the West and manufacturer goods for export to the West. West enjoyed 2 decades of clean air and low inflation.

[@rytiskurcinskas7179]

When cheapest Golf 1.0L petrol in Ireland starts at 30,000euro with almost no spec and on the other hand you have BYD for 32000euro you can get fully speced small Suv and its fully EV with 300-400km range its a no brainer

[@m.m.4609]

you can also get a fast nice Mercedes A35 AMG with 30.000 km on it for about 30K. worth every euro, I never understand why people buy new cars when the value of that same car is down by a couple K's already the next month. Stop being an idiot, buy second-hand low milage european cars, instead of wasting it on new chinese karts.

[@lookinaturmom]

@@m.m.4609what’s a a affordable car for a beginner driver?

[@smelly4373]

@@m.m.4609sadly used cars are also very expensive now so this idea that people should just buy used doesn’t hold up to the issue at hand

[@Cincy32]

​@@lookinaturmomFord Crown Victoria

[@robertagren9360]

@@m.m.4609 It's not really about cars as a tool. If it was a tool people would never sell a working car.

[@user-hk5wd4sp4m]

In fact, China subsidizes all electric vehicle manufacturers produced in China, including brands from other countries such as Tesla

[@kin9225]

China has stopped subsidising all EVs since 2022

[@rwbrooklyn]

the subsidy is to EV buyer, not the manufactorer

[@tooltalk]

@@rwbrooklyn >> the subsidy is to EV buyer, not the manufactorer

[@ruleoftwo6174]

@@tooltalk$72Bn, also that is just for the vehicle manufacturers, the subsidies to the upstream suppliers is much harder to track. According Nikkei Asia, CATL the largest battery supplier in China received $400m in direct subsidies in the first 6 months of 2023. Lastly, what foreigners are typically unaware of is the cheap financing provided to state directed industries in China. The Chinese banks provide very low cost and long term NON-COMMERCIAL loans to industries that the government directs. For most businesses in China, they are unable to obtain bank loans beyond 3 years and typically bank lending rates have been 5-7% range over the past decade. But if you investigate the solar industry from a decade ago, Chinese banks provided 10+ year loans at 2-3% or even lower funding, calling these structured/project financing, but in reality these were backed by guarantees and government directives. On that, the amount of low cost long term funding for the EV/car sector in China could be in the hundreds of billions. In summary China never competes on a level playing field, it seeks to take over certain sectors it sees as strategic on global basis and will seek to use this as economic coercion/leverage. EU and any other markets that are seeking to cooperate with China should be aware of these. Furthermore the draconian "net zero" policies being pursued by western politicians is playing right into the Chinese strategy and all such politicians should be investigated for their personal income to check for conflict of interests.

[@tooltalk]

>> including brands from other countries such as Tesla

[@nkaloyanov]

In a shopping mall in Bulgaria, I came across a Dongfeng T5 Evo at 28.500 euros. Brand new. Grabbed my eye, despite my general resentment towards Chinese cars. Test drove one. I was totally impressed. The 1.5GDI engine pulls 195 HP, the auto box is fine, noise isolation is decent, there are so many goodies there. I came to check a similarly specced T-Roc. Starting at 35 grand.

[@wangyaohan8824]

that's the results of competition in china with almost 100 car brands, everyone should make better product than their competitors.

[@fofoqueiro5524]

You probably want to reflect how you developed the general resentment to China considering it was Europe that tried to colonize China and killed Chinese in the past.

[@phiality9070]

​@fofoqueiro5524 you sound like someone whos pissed off because of history

[@wilsan806]

@@fofoqueiro5524 Please share the location of the former bulgarian colony, I can't seem to find it.

[@sznikers]

​@@fofoqueiro5524lol you dont even recognize countries but you jump here with history lessons 😂

[@alustin]

Tesla is getting government subsidies from Chinese government in the Chinese market. Yet BYD is not complaining to the Chinese government that Tesla is taking market share from BYD, why is that?

[@geoffgjof]

A lot of times companies have to share their Intellectual Property with a Chinese partner. So the Chinese may be getting that from Tesla, so they are able to incorporate it into their cars, whereas U.S. companies don't get access to that. So the Chinese companies are able to keep up with new EV tech and still get decent market share. That would be my guess anyway.

[@tooltalk]

@@geoffgjof : Tesla also open sourced their IP early on in "preparation" of entering the Chinese NEV market. I guess that's why China allowed Tesla 100% independently owned without a forced joint venture which allow a local domestic competitor to "share" (euphemistically) their IP.

[@WalterGao]

@@geoffgjof No one want to use TESLA's IP since once you did ,your IP would be automaticly shared with TESLA

Because BYD has better tech than Tesla, Tesla is a cheap car in China according to a friend that lives there, all the good brands people want are chinese.

[@tooltalk]

​@@WalterGao >> No one want to use TESLA's IP since once you did ,your IP would be automaticly shared with TESLA

[@JanRademan]

Africa is also seeing a significant push from Chinese car brands.

[@gangatalishis]

Makes sense considering china steals most their mineral resources from them. Just sell it back to the locals.

[@A-se2ur]

Ah, the latest method of China’s neocolonization of Africa then.

[@Muhluri]

There's so many Haval cars on South Africa's streets

[@fren111]

​​@@A-se2urChina Secret is Invest in poor countries, Western brands only know how to invest in America and Europe... of course Africans will consume more Chinese goods Chinese cars seem affordable and high quality to most of the world,

[@tooltalk]

>> Africa is also seeing a significant push from Chinese car brands.

[@mranderson3927]

I'm going to disagree Patrick, China absolutely had the goal of winning at EV worldwide

[@wangyaohan8824]

exactly, I stop watching when he said "because of lower local demand".

[@helloworld9811]

How about reversing “you have to find a local partnership as "joint adventure" (establish a new company in China and give at least 49% of share to a local partnership company for free) to sell your car in China?” eg, if a Chinese car maker wants to sell cars in EU, Chinese car maker need to establish a new company and find another European car manufacture as "joint adventure" and give 49% of the share for free? China only allows Tesla to operate in China without a "joint adventure", because China wants Tesla to help China grow their own electric car supply chain.

[@GSC084]

Patrick has a few things he hate and he is unable to hide his bias.

[@jokarejam8674]

​@@helloworld9811 how about each country starting to prioritize there economic interests. If your country needs to negotiate with a private entity that is beholden to laws and politics of another country and they control the livelihood of your population you are fucked. Essentially you are not independent anymore. And especially with German brands due to there laws they prefer domestic production over there chains abroad when they start losing money your country will suffer the consequences.

[@axelnilsson6478]

Well then post your evidence

[@bulletspike8101]

We in Ireland are used to unfair Government taxes the ridiculously high VRT charged on car imports, so that we buy from Irish dealers instead of going to the UK to buy the same car for half the price.

[@philipjones3599]

Could you not just buy in northern Ireland register insure etc then and the drive it in Ireland?

[@aishaalamoudi599]

right?

[@Ome99]

​@@philipjones3599 You do realise that NI is part of the UK?

[@philipjones3599]

@@Ome99 exactly that's the point.

[@jimpaddy79]

@@philipjones3599 Then you should see the problem then

[@trey1531]

Cars these days in America are way too expensive.

[@cwirowaty]

They are like 50% cheaper than EU bro

[@mshepard2264]

partly this is because of the type of cars that people in the US buy. People are buying 6000lb extended cab pickups with 400hp and complaining about it being expensive. People in the US need to buy more small cheap hatchbacks.

[@benfowler1134]

Because the fat, lazy, pampered US carmakers keep pushing oversized trucks because the markups are higher - and not the cars which people actually want to buy.

[@kleyyer]

South America too. Here in Brazil, BYD just opened up its factory in place of the former Ford factory we had here.

[@HebryNegga-wy4zr]

Hola, Tudo Bem?

[@Etelvinicius]

Not for long.

[@user-yv7hv2cb8e]

And Great Wall too.

[@serafinacosta7118]

Yup. Meanwhile the charging infra structure is virtually non existing , with limited growth prospects. . Tesla created its demand by building the charging infrastructure on their own, bankrolled by shareholder investment. The Americans have Tesla charging stations virtually every retail power center in the burbs and smaller towns on the coasts and upper Midwest , covering their consumer demographics. For a vehicle that takes at least half hour of recharge time. The bulk of consumers willing to shell out money for an EV is within large metro regions , and there in lies the problem….. lack of available real estate to install EV charging stations. And never mind theft on charging stations in public locales , namely curbside. And the costly undertaking of installing solar in your car port. And the fact no one in right mind will subside electricity consumption to recharge these vehicles. Toyota is the only one who figured Brazil and is selling hybrids from their model lineup. The Chinese car makers will end up like Chery. Shutting down their shiny new plants. Or deep discounting a and depending on local partners as Chery did.

[@kennedy6618]

Good for Brazil! Chinese EV vehicles is the future. American cars are expensive and built cheaply!

[@justgeneric2876]

Trouble with all the manufacturers is they’ve stopped making quality goods at a fair price

[@vylbird8014]

It's hard to compete that way, when so many customers go straight to the 'sort by price' option.

[@txdmsk]

Toyota's cars are very good. The Corolla is great, and so I hear the Rav4s are too. I wouldn't say they are cheap, but they are almost fair.

[@asdcdweadasd]

VW is pretty reliable too

[@pif5023]

And people have less money to spend overall

[@arrtwo1375]

They need to move product for their stockholders. Line go up

[@lucasbeut]

Just a small correction: in Brazil, the import tariff for electric cars has been revised. Previously it was 0%, but now it will scale as follows: 10% import tax starting in January 2024; 18% in July 2024; 25% in July 2025; and 35% in July 2026.

[@Etelvinicius]

Brazil always making the wrong moves regarding everything.

[@RealBoiJare]

Why do governments always try to make their citizens more and more poor?

[@yuriel6691]

​@@Etelvinicius I agree so much with your comment it's as if they do it on purpose 😅

[@lkchoh1454]

What is entropy? In car manufacturer they will know that piston is pushed and compressed facing sparkling produce strong heat and energy being released and then car in motion. Similarly China in entropy I.e under suppression, containment like trade war, banned all necessities like chips, limited movement, cause triggering sparks and then suddenly EV cars, Huawei iPhones, bullet trains, etc Chinese export overseas.

[@Kevin_Street]

From a quick Google search I learned that several Chinese EV makers have announced plans to set up manufacturing plants in Brazil, so it seems the announced tariffs have already had an effect.

[@willie346]

Is the Chinese subsidy for their EV any different from European subsidies for AirBus? The Europeans are okay with distorting external markets, but not when others reciprocate.

[@thorin1045]

yes, it is done by the eu, so it is good, unlike if china does the same, which is bad.

[@MS-ly8iz]

it is seeing you can look up how much Airbus got from subsidies and you can't for chinese subsidy.

[@thorin1045]

@@MS-ly8iz are you sure you can't look up, or you (and me and most) just can't read the chinese sources that would show it.

[@looloolama]

Hate the game not the player, got to leave your emotions at the door when analyzing geopolitics. Countries don't make their decisions based on emotions, they try to win.

[@metalvideos1961]

no its not. but since the EU are US puppets and the US hate everything China the EU does as well. so they come up with crap like that

[@do0myk]

only we can subsidize our industry if anyone else does it its unfair 😢

[@zacksmith5963]

Europe selling cars to China = exports China selling cars to Europe = flooding Racism going strong with a mix of jealousy

[@norlockv]

As a US resident I’d really like to have the options for small electric vans. Instead my options are electric sports coups and overweight pickups. If the US makers won’t build practical city transport vehicles, we should allow those imports.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

EVs are luxury items.

[@agxryt]

Practical city transport is not the US' strong suit. But you have to recognize the ill intentions of moves like these - and other "flood the market" schemes coming out of China. Are you willing to sacrifice your children's future and independence for the sake of becoming a zero-carbon soccer mom?

[@richierich440007]

NOT AT ALL and in better words - HELL NO 😵‍💫

[@michaelimbesi2314]

We have practical city transport vehicles. It’s called walking and public transit. Private cars don’t really fit in in cities…literally. The amount of space required to store a car at its destination is enormous and imposes a massive unseen cost on every home or business. Between a parking spot and that spot’s share of the aisle, parking a car requires about 300 square feet. And they’re exceptional space inefficiency also means that they tend to cause whatever right-of-way they try to use to rapidly become extremely congested.

[@norlockv]

@@samsonsoturian6013 They needn’t be: much lower maintenance, overnight refueling for pennies, and much lower pollution in areas where it’s a problem. If you take the average “soccer mom” they may travel 50 m/80km in a day. They don’t need a eTron or Lighting with 300 km range. They’d be happy a vehicle with more seating, no oil changes and no fumes for under $40k.

[@gunner9711]

Why western always said flood with China this or that. Why last time Asia never say our country flood with Europe goods? (Car, handphone, tech) fair compensation is this world needed.

[@hugoguerreiro1078]

Because China forced Western companies to engage in joint ventures, stole their technology and uses other protectionist policies but then takes advantage of free trade with Western countries. China has been engaging in a trade war with the West as part of their unrestricted warfare policiy for decades and now they're complaining that the West is fighting back.

[@benfowler1134]

It's not fair competition, and never been fair. Over there, fair play is for suckers. Why should't we follow suit?

[@whateverrandomnumber]

Brazil suspended the zero tariff for EVs this year, giving tariff exemptions to the so called "flex fuel" ICEs (can run on gas or ethanol or any mix in-between).

[@henrylam92]

Toyota is betting on hybrids knowing at its current state the US is nowhere near as ready for full EVs.

[@user-yh8nv9cq4f]

Half of BYD's cars are hybrids.@@henrylam92

[@dylanthomas12321]

Toyota stupidly bet on hydrogen fuel cells which are highly inefficient compared to batteries since you have to spend a vast amount of energy to extract the hydrogen from H20. And even more if you start with salt water. Toyota is far behind in BEV tech and recently made a vaporware r PR announcement about their fantastic new battery pack which doesn't exist and won't for 4or more years. Once great company, but huge mistakes.

[@find2hard]

EU will take action in a few years, when the EU industry has already been destroyed. Like what happened to EU solar panel makers.

[@ivancho5854]

The EU government has never been fit for purpose. Correction: The EU government is fit for purpose, because it's purpose is a bureaucratic dictatorship to line the pockets of the elites and keep the people from understanding that they are really slaves.

[@michaelnurse9089]

They can't take action with reciprocal action. Problem is that most wealthier European economies moved production to China a decade or two ago. This means that the pain associated with such action may well exceed its obvious benefits.

[@zacksmith5963]

Europe selling cars to China = exports China selling cars to Europe = flooding Racism going strong with a mix of jealousy

[@logician3641]

@@michaelnurse9089 Dumbest thing in the world to do. Destroy your own industry and then blame China.

[@pipster1891]

The EU is just an economic arm of the USA now. It damages its own economy and industries for the good of America.

[@robertlee6338]

Something western OEM dont mention is that these Chinese car makers partners are Western car makers, who made huge profits from Chinese state subsidies

[@zacksmith5963]

No country is named west

[@MS-ly8iz]

Show me the proof seeing most of those so called partners forced those companies to provide forced technology transfer so they paid dearly for that acces. Where is the forced tech transfer or forced joint venture for chinese companies in Europe? :)

[@zacksmith5963]

@@MS-ly8iz they can't . Lil

[@timetraveller2300]

@@MS-ly8iz Chinese ICE cars couldn't compete with foreign brands. "forced tech transfers" were not "Forced". market share in exchange of IP. that's fair. Actually "tech transfer" doesn't make Chinese ICE cars better than European or American or Japanese cars. Chinese EV techs are domestic.

[@Seven.Heavenly.Sins.666]

I don't really care about whether or not Chinese EVs have received state subsidies. Germany also subsidizes its auto industry. US has implemented IRA resulting in many EU manufacturers to relocate to the US. I personally had bought lemons from Dodge and Toyota in the past, and will not buy from them anymore. If the Chinese EVs are cheaper and better built to last for at least 5 years or more, so be it. There is no sense for questioning why China has exported massive quantity of EVs to the world. Propaganda like this isn't doing justice to consumers who are price conscious.

[@ChipChat1493]

For a simple reason there is a big demand for reasonably priced and proven reliability EVs produced by China.

[@SlashCampable]

Maybe I'd buy an European car if I could afford it, but economical policies have made it so that the working class have stagnated while the rich have gotten extremely wealthy. If one family is well off enough to be able to buy 5 cars at the expense of 100 not being able to afford anything is it really a mystery why people are looking at Chinese manufacturers to supply the demand? This just feels like the rich making the poor poorer and then blaming the poor for not having any money to spend. It's hard feeling any kind of loyalty to European brands when they've done nothing to earn the respect and trust of people.

[@fungo6631]

Buy a used car you tard. You can get a mk3 VW Golf for a few grand euro in a good condition. A mk2 diesel golf is even cheaper and will last over a million km. My grandad has had a VW Golf mk2 for some 30 years and the car outlived him.

[@wangyaohan8824]

that's called capitalism, freedom to obtain profit as much as possible. no system is perfect, the people's culture is more important (and culture also can be good and bad).

[@wolfumz]

I had the experience a few years ago where I wanted to buy an entry level car here in the US, only to learn they don't exist anymore. Automakers don't produce any entry level cars anymore, except for Hyundai and Toyota. New compact cars don't exist. It's too expensive, they say. They just don't sell enough in the US to justify the trouble of importng them. I was quite surprised.

[@m.m.4609]

ahh BS. European cars aren't that super expensive. You can get a super fast high quality Mercedes Benz A35 AMG with 30.000 km for about 30K. You could pay the same amount for a new chinese "car" , but then you deserve all the shit the car is going to give you.

[@ivancho5854]

I hear you and you're not lying. Crony capitalism has killed the West. The middle class soon won't exist. It will be some rich elites and everyone else will be indentured servants. Debt is the modern shackles. Allowing China to destroy European car, bus and soon truck manufacturing is an equal folly though. Usually when politicians stand up like Van den Leiden (or whatever her name is, was she elected by the people by the way? Doubt it.) and say that they are going to investigate anything, it's code for not doing anything. I hope not. Chinese car imports must be banned outright in the EU, or the EU will not have a single car manufacturer in short order. At the rate that China is facing demographic collapse and geopolitical supply chains under serious threat, I suspect that in a decade China will no longer be able to build and get to market any cars in Europe in a decade. That means no spare parts either. I am not buying any Chinese car at any price. Anyone who can't see the writing on the wall is a fool of the first order and deserves what they get.

[@justindressler5992]

What car company isn't subsidised though, either directly or indirectly.

[@commentBox82]

ya, looking at GM

[@Electricdreams21]

True. The UK pumps billions into the car industry to help keep it competitive

[@user-xl5kd6il6c]

did you look at the amount of taxes cars have everywhere though? is it really a subsidy if they steal everyone's money when buying that same product that is "subsidized"?

[@tnickknight]

The southern states offer huge bribes and anti worker laws

[@MrBlaxjax]

@@Electricdreams21? Really? More details please.

[@Gotcho1977]

Good video. Love your channel. Very rational and informative.

[@VL-inquisitor]

"Unfair trade practices' and 'highly subsidized' seem to be big words that are far too simplistic if not misleading in describing the current EV car imports from China into EU. The thing is China is selling exported EVs more expensive than the same EVs sold domestically. Besides, China EV industry is simply more competitive. This is the edge of China and the problem for EU. To address the problem, EU should think about how to make its car industry more competitive.

[@mshepard2264]

I hate to say but i agree in many cases the Chinese EV offerings are superior. This comes from cornering the lithium Iron phosphate battery market years ago. Its more the result of other companies lack of foresight and innovation. The only company that will be able to compete with the Chinese companies is probably tesla due to their aggressive implementation of advanced manufacturing.

[@hydrohasspoken6227]

No, EU would rather keep whining about their defeats.

[@thanasis-_-]

It is more competitive because the CCP doesn't let companies to become monopolies

[@tooltalk]

>> China EV industry is simply more competitive. > This is the edge of China and the problem for EU.

[@ProjektJay]

we will keep blaming china instaed of competing. it is a free market

[@rus.t]

Not just Europe, they are also doubling down in Asia & Australia

[@z50king29]

He said that

[@jackminao2060]

Latin America too

[@SineN0mine3]

Australia hasn't had a car industry for over a decade, nobody here cares. We tried to warn people it was going to be a problem but it turns out our car companies were wasteful, lazy, inefficient and had way too much government funding. The other car companies are to blame here, not the markets.

[@cb250nighthawk3]

Business is business. 🎉

[@letsburn00]

The Australian government allowed car manufacturers to shut down in Australia. It's all just imports and foreign companies now.

[@happyhappynuts]

The problem is overcapacity. It wouldnt show up as subsidies. The mechanism is shadow bank provides the loan, shadowbank goes broke, new entity is formed to operate the industrial plant

[@snorttroll4379]

Please specify. Do you mean the lender goes bankrupt or and a new bank refinances, or do you mean that the legal entity that operates goes bankrupt and is taken over by a new one

[@snorttroll4379]

I mean the assets are taken over by a new one

[@benfowler1134]

From seeing the way Chinese business operates up close for much of my life, I'd say that the problem is much more fundamental, deep-seated and cultural. You're not going to fix that sort of thing in 1 month, or even 1 century.

[@seanlee9377]

'Cheap' because your EU manufacturing costs are too high and your cars are over-priced

[@megalodonming]

If the Chinese government wants to subsidize my next car purchase with their hard earned money, I will take it. In fact, along the line of Milton Friedman's thinking, it is rather stupid not to take it.

[@timop6340]

There are multiple strings attached. Free lunches and such...

[@sebastianorye2702]

Sure. But if you were the government, and you knew that the Chinese were running artificially low prices on their cars, running out your local manufacturing, would you allow that? You know that it's only temporary, and that it's therefore not equal competition. Either give local manufacturing subsidies to level the playing field, or put tariffs on imports.

[@Cincy32]

This is the most short-sighted comment I've read today.

[@henkondemand]

If they make a good affordable EV I will take it. It would also be nice for Western car makers to finally get moving on affordable EV's due to Chinese competition.

[@name-oc2df]

…unless you’re after a car that is maintainable and able to perform at a high level

[@TubersAndPotatoes]

Not only cheap chinese EVs. They've been aggressively exporting normal ICE cars, large trucks, construction vehicles.

[@hclau218]

"aggressively exporting"? Are those cars going into landfill bcos nobody wants them? Your ridiculous racial bias is really showing. Oh well! to be expected, I suppose. Can't compete, curse the other guy.

[@ivonivan1169]

Chyna trucks are the best, simply because you can order 10l-15l diesels with p-pumps or similar mechanical injection systems

[@MGZetta]

Everything China does is aggressive. How dare the export. Lol

[@vlhc4642]

Chinese EVs aren't cheap either, they're sold at 200% mark-up in Europe.

[@mealien0808]

Yes, I see them in my country Every new truck is now a chinese in my country because they are cheap You can buy a chinese truck for 15000$ brand new. Before the chinese, there were only two options Japanese or German, and the cheapest ones were 40000$ to 60000$ in the second market.

[@fyang1429]

8:06 - A minor correction: there are Mitsubishi cars sold in the US.

[@tHebUm18]

Thought I was crazy for a second seeing it up there.

[@speculawyer]

Yes. Not many though.

[@Sifisomabanga]

Mitsubishi is Japanese

[@wilkinlow]

It’s pretty much dead in the water for years now, can’t remember the last time they have a car that sell like hot cakes.

[@95blahblahhaha]

Suzuki is also sold in the US too

[@henk7356]

Mr. Boyle. Thanks for this comprehensive explanantions, however a few things are expressed wrongly. You state that the chinese car manufacturing is not growing and do not exceed 28 million units, however the production over 2023 was over 40 million units. There is a use appetite in China for local brand cars. This will cost the Germans, Japanese and Koreans a significant market share. Also, the exported cars are tailor made for the export markets and have no share in local markets. Also the China economy is strong and growing. I live in Guangzhou-PRC for 25 years and I am closely related to the automotive market.

[@FREN12345]

Recently, Germany abolished the subsidy for EV-buyers almost 1 year early due to an overall budget crisis. Yet to be seen how it will impact sales of EV, but it's not looking good.

[@Dosmans]

Well yes, but the subsidies went to the automakers to offset development costs. The impact will be minimal because automakers lower the prices to not experience low demand time. China is running towards massive systemic crisis and so far there is no light at the end of the tunnel for them.

[@robinspanier7017]

german evs are operpriced glorified gaming chairs on wheels. the subsidy was removed earlier because they didnt sell their own stuff

[@Dave1507]

@@robinspanier7017 But Tesla isn't german. You described a tesla there.

[@Youtubegoblin23]

It’s 2024 and I still can’t buy an electric VW here in Australia. Germany was too late to the party and simply won’t have a manufacturing sector in 20 years time

[@tooltalk]

@@Dosmans >> China is running towards massive systemic crisis and so far there is no light at the end of the tunnel for them.

[@Evanturar]

The auto industries in Europe and the US are 100% critical infrastructure. Every auto manufacturer is a hub for engineering, regional supply chain, automation technology, raw materials and a raft of other healthy economic benefits. When an auto plant shuts down or leaves a region, the impacts are devistating.

[@Cakemake-123.]

U should know the German cars dominated chinas automotive sector for decades if this is normal for china then there should be reciprocity from European side as well.

[@manu.yt25]

The EU tried to warn them by setting clear goals and still many old car manufacturers took years before considering Tesla or chinese EVs a serious threath, I'm not really sorry for them.

[@langhamp8912]

Cars are financial tools of destruction to their owners, their infrastructure hugely expensive (exhibit a: the enormous and free parking lots that have infested cities and towns), their drivers crash an awful lot, their fuel (gas, diesel, or batteries) dirty and heavily subsidized, and they pollute a tremendous amount. Making sure everyone privately owns such a dangerous and expensive vehicle, however, seems to be government policy everywhere. Thus, when an auto plant shut downs, the local impact is indeed destructive...in the same way that when an Oxycontin plant shuts down the locals are unhappy they can't push their poisonous products on society as a whole.

[@samuraijack1371]

Auto industry is a big drain and waste of western economy. They don’t make quality products at reasonable prices anymore, have needed tax payer bailouts several times times now and somehow aren’t even competitive on a global scale while trying to bust unions. In free markets this is what is called a “zombie” industry.

[@alanjenkins1508]

Yes. Just letting it go so Europe can have cheap Chinese cars for a few years will lead to long term economic decline and dependency on China, an authoratarian communist state that hates us.

[@philipfreeman72]

Here in Thailand most seem to shun maintenance , they just keep buying cheap .

[@rs-dp6pr]

A white person living in Thailand to pretend to know what Thai people thinks is laughable.. just remember to pay your girl every month..

[@Babigoldfish]

You sure you're not a out of touch rich man?

[@JoeOvercoat]

That describes the typical American vehicle owner.

[@user-ny3gw3iq7x]

My impression is that the value of cars and parts exported from Europe to China is now much higher than the value of cars and parts exported from China to Europe. If both sides deny each other access to the market, Europe's losses will be greater, so Germany firmly opposes a trade war with China. There are 5 million European cars sold in China, which makes European car manufacturers make a lot of money. Of course they are produced in China, but why can't Europe also introduce Chinese car factories and bring technology and employment?

[@tooltalk]

>> My impression is that the value of cars and parts exported from Europe to China is now much higher than the value of cars and parts exported from China to Europe. > If both sides deny each other access to the market, Europe's losses will be greater,

[@hurrikkkanes2533]

⁠@@tooltalk nah lmao EU car cartels need China more than China needs EU market my bro 😂 EU rtards will gladly accept Teslas like good dogs. idk if these EU capitalists will just give their China revenues over these so-called domestic protection lmao vw and stellantis and others are already investing in new EV JVs in China, capital has no nationality bro 😅

[@hillsideonly]

​​@@tooltalk >> "China is number 3 export market for Europe, after the US and UK." That's kind of a broad and quite misleading assertion that lacks nuance. It's not China's fault that it can make cars really fast, pretty cheap with little drama. China's industrial abilities encouraged foreign companies to produce there and ship to export markets. Chinese indigenous companies export to EU is barely anything. It's Tesla that's exporting the vast majority of automobiles going to the EU. Tesla Berlin just announced that they'll be shutting down for 2 weeks in Jan-Feb because of scarcity of materials, This would lead to increased exports despite the EU probe into Chinese EV "subsidies" and the amendments that France, Germany made to their laws recently. You should be mad at Berlin for it's inability to function at an efficient pace, and at Tesla for siting a company in China.

[@marong3717]

what r u smoking ?? what are the parts exported to china from europe ?? and evs have less no of parts - china makes motors, batteries, controllers and almost all parts inside cars. as i see its less than 10 % of value of car if in case in high end cars require parts from europe

[@tooltalk]

@@hillsideonly >> It's not China's fault that it can make cars really fast, pretty cheap with little drama.

[@Metapharsical]

Wow. Its remarkable, this is the only time I havent seen a Temu or other Chinese merchant ad on a video 🤔 😂

[@nickthegun]

I bought an MG4 and if you'd have told me five years ago I would be buying an MG, I would have said you were crazy. But its nearly 10k cheaper than its nearest rival so, yeah....

[@nathonix7072]

How is the MG4 in your opinion

[@nickthegun]

Great, honestly. The only thing that lets it down, as mentioned in the video, is the software. It needs some QoL updates for sure. The lane assist is terrible.

[@squibys2262]

Good luck selling it on as just like you were doubtful of ever purchasing a MG the second market will be even more so.

[@s._3560]

Software no doubt will have updates to it to correct that. MG is much loved brand in UK, so good on it being revived.

[@nickthegun]

@@squibys2262 Its leased through work so very much not my problem

[@mishmohd]

Interesting that BCG didn’t include protectionism as a factor that helped European car manufacturers.

[@startcomplaining9781]

It would be highly unusual for a company with global revenue interest to comment on political decisions/act like a newspaper. They are very careful on what they are publishing.

[@fractalelf7760]

I worked for them at one point, they get paid often to shape a narrative to what people writing the check want to hear… US industry never fully recovered by letting Japan in, EU and now the US are not going to repeat that error.

[@andrewmakenzi]

😂😂😂 bro that’s western politics for you,

[@fractalelf7760]

@@andrewmakenzi You’re right, we don’t have the CCP telling us what to do and using embedded control of companies for a pseudo-fascist economy. Some measures have to be taken to preserve local industry, China is not going to pay for your bills or retirement. To think China doesn’t act to protect and ensure its markets is an absurdity of the highest order, all they do is self-promote in every action.

[@mishmohd]

@@andrewmakenzi aren't you "western"?

[@stephenjohnson1112]

Insightful and informative! Even the parts that are hard to swallow.

[@littlestinker9716]

Patrick, you forgot about Nissan Versa. Available in U.S. starting at $17.4K brand new.

[@GoodlyPenguin]

Only Patrick "Boyle" B.I.G. can make a banger of a video to help the hip-hop community get their own Chinese EV. Big ups, Patrick.

[@thomasholm4338]

Word!

[@WhatSmellsLikeToast]

Jit slid frfr

[@tren133]

The Hip-Hop community would be ALL OVER Dongfeng's new M-Hero 917 electric SUV. It is like the Chinese version of the Hummer, except somehow even MORE 'murica.

[@ex0duzz]

What's this? Can someone explain it? Does the hip hop community love new Chinese EVs? 🤣

[@crabjon1979]

In 2023, the total number of passenger cars sold in China was 21.7 million units, which was a 5.6% increase from the previous year. Specifically, Chinese-brand passenger vehicle sales jumped 24.1% year on year in 2023 to 14.6 million units. The market share of such vehicles hit 56% last year, 6.1 percentage points higher than in 2022. The sales of new energy vehicles exceeded 9.49 million units, surging 37.9% year on year. The total vehicle sales in China rose by 12% to 30.094 million units.

[@robinspanier7017]

a tesla: 50k, a mercedes: 100k a chinese car: affordable enough said?

[@xelkim9666]

I've started to embrace China more because without them my normal life cannot operate, I wish there were more Chinese here in Belfast I would greet them with gratitude.

[@benfowler1134]

Ni Hao, Wu Mao

[@patrickdegenaar9495]

I was in China over the summer. I saw some very desirable looking EVs on sale for $30k. Meanwhile, German and Japanese Auto are doing everything in their power to slow down the shift to EV. I think we are experiencing another Kodak moment.

[@sebastianorye2702]

The power of lobbying by VW and Toyota

[@Johnnyde94v2]

Thank you for the info!

[@murorwaalvinpeter1464]

its fair business competition when the EU and US dominate their competitors but unfair when they are being out competed in the market

[@Argus-ut8gi]

You told the truth

[@haldir3120]

Always have been like that.

[@tonystanley5337]

Software may well be a defining feature of high end cars, but it is not for lower end. It does have to work though, and legacy auto hasn't got the skills yet. The defining features for lower end EVs are range-price ratio (efficiency) and perhaps battery life, along with general quality or maybe safety.

[@martian9999]

Exactly. One wonders why e.g. journos can't get this right. A Tesla is superior because it is efficient (more miles per kwh), charges fast, doesn't coldgate (no charging speed bog down in cold weather), doesn't rapidgate (no charging speed bog down when it's hot). and the charging network is tops. And, Teslas are darned fast. All this is due to good ole' thorough engineering, not software.

[@fungt89]

EU pulled the same shit with Airbus vs Boeing. Free market only applies to my market

[@samsonsoturian6013]

That's physcially impossible. The garbage in the video is just systemic Ponzi schemes, not protectionist garbage

[@peterfireflylund]

And the US did, too. It also has a very protected home market for cars - otherwise, the European and Japanese cars would have completely beaten GM and probably also Ford.

[@web2yt488]

In the end a government is required to protect domestic industry and labour. What they say doesn't matter. Much like the world no longer takes Chinese messaging at face value.

[@abdiganiaden]

@@peterfireflylundthe US does not penalize if produced in US which Toyota does

[@relwalretep]

EU had to do something in response to the publicity over IS state sponsored espionage in Airbus, and that was something.

[@3falexchina953]

This year in Kazakhstan 70% new cars Chinese. All my friends looking to buy a ZECKER even they owned BMW. I never expected this change soo radical and quickly.

[@geraldh.8047]

What is ZECKER? Is that a cheap noname clone of ZEEKR?

[@tren133]

To be fair, Zeekr cars are some of the best EVs out there right now. VW launched their brand new ID.7 in China and got a measly 300 pre-orders, which is just sad. Meanwhile Zeekr just launched a similar electric sedan, the Zeekr 007, and within days got 50,000 preorders. Zeekr (and almost all of Geely's) EVs are legit.

[@MustermannAnybody]

​@@tren133 Zeekr cars are great if the other Geely EVs are any indication. But stay away from the ZECKER clones, they are a total scam and surely not as good as the ZEEKR original.

[@Pezzerd]

4 Chinese bots talking to each other 😂

[@b.fingers3896]

the good side of this is that it speeds up the incentive for investments in EV infrastructure (charging stations, repair shops, replacement parts) and demand for skilled workforce. Expensive or non-existing maintenance is one of the main things stopping people from buying EVs.

[@theodavies8754]

Sure there's a big market for first time made in China cars. There was a domestic market for them until they found it's better to swap a new BEV for a used ice. Big ships to take them back. Now the domestic market for anything has crashed. It was over in 2023. It's only ever about the money.

[@Flitalidapouet]

Even in California, where it's very hot, you often have 2 hours waiting time just to access the chargers, (does not include charge time) In cold countries EV is pure hell. (I mean real cold, Canada, Russia, not fake cold like England, Sweden)

[@JoeOvercoat]

Is that a misery loves company argument? 🤔

[@Flitalidapouet]

@@JoeOvercoat Yep, EV owners sure do love misery indeed. This is why either most of them have a secondary gas car, OR reverse to gas after a couple of years. Only around 10% are fanatics, that will accept to suffer just to virtue signal.

[@hatescreen]

I bought a MG4 last year, firstly for the EV and secondly because of the value for money. I looked at 208e and ID3 first and you just don't get value for money. EU are trying to push EVs and then giving out as we buy the "wrong" EVs.

[@nkaloyanov]

I own a Golf MK7, and recently looked at the ID3 as a potential replacement. Mate, it looked like my first car - Toyota Yaris '02, with a computer and some tech gimmicks. The quality was horrible, and everything in the car was screaming, 'Cheap junk'.

[@hatescreen]

@@nkaloyanov If you want Decent look VW powered EV I recommend Cupra Born but the value for money is poor in my opinion, I would go look at the MGs or BYD Seal (likely next car in 3/4 years).

[@tren133]

@@nkaloyanov ID.3 is not a bad car, just too expensive. It is selling quite well currently ... in China of all places. Why? That thing starts at like $16k USD in China! For that price it is a blooming bargain!

[@leanlifer]

Shanghai-built ID3 is around the same price as MG4 (actually called Mulan here ) in China. Which one would you choose if they are the same price?

[@m6dn]

@@nkaloyanov the brand new ID3 2024 model is less then 16000 Euros in China. how much is it in your home?

[@eddenoy321]

Patrick could read an old telephone book and make it sound interesting.

[@user-rr9rt9qj4k]

I would love if Patrick could read me a bedtime story and I would fall asleep in no time.

[@tomdillon3143]

Ursula in front of the EU Parliament sounded a lot like the speeches Trump gave about "fair trade".

[@goranmiljus2664]

Her wig is the same as Trumps.

[@elliotoliver8679]

Trump Derangement Syndrome alive and well

[@tooltalk]

>> Ursula in front of the EU Parliament sounded a lot like the speeches Trump gave about "fair trade".

[@tooltalk]

@@davidemelia6296 >> The Chinese manufacturers have been 'following the same rule' - they certainly haven't been dumping, if that's what you're trying to imply.

[@Keckegenkai]

@@goranmiljus2664 thats her real hair; shes just stuck in the 80s big hair phase.

[@ingo_8628]

Today i saw a BYD ETH8 with red (temporary) numberplate of Cologne near Bonn.

[@Chrischen0589]

So when Japanese and Korean cars are taking over market shares in Europe and America it’s fine when it comes to Chinese it’s always bad - what an irony. I find it very interesting, European cars had dominated Chinese luxury car segment for decades until a few years ago - now that Chinese car makers are doing better than their competitors - they achieved it by put better production the table not just blaming that the western had a head start in making cars - so maybe those legacy car maker should put more focus on how to improve the product and reduce/optimise operation cost to make themselves more competitive than just blaming competitors

[@danhtran6401]

You need your ears checked. Didn't you hear that the Chinese people don't even want to buy their own garbage EVs. What makes you think exporting garbage around the world is a good idea?

[@MS-ly8iz]

because those countries didnt put forced tech transfers or were hiding their state subsidies :)

[@Chrischen0589]

@@MS-ly8iz don’t really know what are you talking about? Forced tech transfer ? From whom!? Hiding subsidiary? Are you talking about the ones that all EVs are getting in China regardless of where the car is made whereas US government only subsidies US made EVs? Man you are in another world, please read some real news from independent sources and stay away from those media that full of bias and propaganda

[@ralfzacherl9942]

It's still gonna take a while. If you have a Chinese Electric Car in Germany there is no Chance any mechanic can help you with Software or anything. They try to change that but Germany is moving very very slowly. Maybe in 4-5 years.

[@henrylam92]

Prob the push back comes from the German mechanical engineers and they take pride in their machinery.

[@ralfzacherl9942]

@@henrylam92 I'm German and when you show up with a new VW with a software problem they're almost as incompetent as with a Chinese car. They try to update it and if it doesn't work they say sorry can't help you.

[@henrylam92]

@@ralfzacherl9942 well thats on the german manufactures. They need to hire more software engineers. It is also why a lot of people prefer older german cars that have less tech

[@bigE_0]

No word about Volkswagen dirty lobbying and the opposition to pollution rules

[@paulhawkins6415]

The cheek of von der Leyen, 'your cars are cheaper than my over taxed and over regulated cars, it's not fair'. The empress of the Franco-German empire should think about cutting taxes and getting rid of red tape

[@snorttroll4379]

Too much tape.

[@paulalvarezloblich8363]

This comment was so dumb i felt my brain cells dying

[@paulhawkins6415]

@@paulalvarezloblich8363 I think you mean brain cell. I am talking about the rad tape that cost VAG 20 billion in the USA

[@snorttroll4379]

I bet you took the tranfection therapies.lol. it might have taken your brain cell. btw. it is true. there is a reason people want to make cars in china and not germany. cheap energy is the reason. @@paulalvarezloblich8363

[@Ask-a-Rocket-Scientist]

Thanks for shedding light on the situation

[@johnk4306]

But what happens if EV incentives and subsidies run dry? Demand for EVs is significantly created by governments having invented this EV market niche - and even with this government intervention most consumers still aren’t interested in EVs.

[@HMKfilms360]

I wouldn't mind an ev vehicle because i don't travel far. But ev's are expensive.

[@nshon7]

You are assuming EV tech will stay stagnant forever like ICE. Range, charging speed, battery degradation, weight will see massive improvements. The tipping point, incentives and subsidies not withstanding, will come whereby the lifetime cost of owning an EV is observably lower than ICE. China is betting on this and is like a bat out of a hell on that path. They are best placed to benefit when that tipping point happens and it’s be too late for others.

[@user-hk5wd4sp4m]

In fact, it is based on carbon tax, which means that as long as the world continues to develop on the road of environmental protection, some people will definitely choose electric vehicles for cheaper prices and lower carbon taxes.

[@mshepard2264]

This is because the US govt basically holds gas prices artificially low through the use of the strategic reserve and subsidies for the oil companies. Electric cars can be cheap just not electric hummers and electric f150s. GM even used to make some affordable electric cars (Bolt and volt) but they cancelled them so….

[@cheesecake7159]

Price will go down untill the car producer bankrupt

[@codywaller2840]

I’ll just keep my Japanese ICE car.

[@ryanreedgibson]

I don't blame you. Chinese cars are crap.

[@fungo6631]

The Japanese even make hybrid cars, like the Toyota Yaris and Corolla Hybrid. If I needed a greener alternative, I'd rather choose that. I'm sure many people will be happy to pay up more for a Japanese EV due to their quality.

[@yudogcome5901]

​@@fungo6631Chinese automakers also produce very good hybrid cars. For example, BYD generates more than half of its sales from hybrids. In fact, Toyota's EV bz4x was recalled due to quality issues, and the new model bz3 Toyota only designed the appearance and cabin decoration, and outsourced other parts to BYD for production.

[@AK-74K]

@@ryanreedgibson They are not anymore. BYD and Geely make excellent cars

[@zacksmith5963]

I ll keep chinese and japanese both

[@JohnTrustworthy]

So the politicians were doing a kickback scheme with the EV subsidies and suddenly an outside player threatened their oligopoly. So sad.

[@converdis449]

Excellent the first review I have seen that explains what is really going on with China 🇨🇳 and the automobile industry. Germanys economy is greatly built on the car industry, not only direct manufacture but also the aftermarket automotive industry, manufacture, supply and service and repairs. This is why the EU is panicking

[@michaela7759]

CHINESE EV iMPORT TAX CHANGE IN BRAZIL!!! Import tax for chinese ev ARE NOT ZERO ANY MORE. Since a few days ago it is between 10% and 12%, and will gradually increase. To 18-25% in july/24, 25-30% in july/25 and finally 35% in july/26

[@AB-fi5jt]

That’s a bad news for ppl in Brazil.

[@tooltalk]

@@AB-fi5jt >> That’s a bad news for ppl in Brazil.

[@torysche2917]

@@AB-fi5jt I think it's a great news for ppl working for a car industry in Brazil. They are not gonna lose their job!

[@tooltalk]

@@heitors.3917 >> I just hope this means that Chinese companies will start to make their own factories in here.

[@deezeed2817]

@@tooltalk Brazil doesn't manufacture EV's

[@Glory-to-God.]

US automakers get on average direct subsidies from federal and state governments amount to almost $9,000 per vehicle while direct subsidies from utilities push the amount over $10,000. that is about twice as much as the subsidies from Chinese government to Chinese automakers in China.

[@MS-ly8iz]

Funny so you have the source for that claim that they only get that subsidy ( i doubt it seeing your just parroting the CCP) Lets ignore the free land , forced technology transfer , protected home market ( 40% import tariff) :)

[@SafeBandicoot]

A lot of commenters here doesn’t appear to understand why Chinese industry policy is really unfair. US or EU industrial subsidisation is not the same as China. The price of a car is not just the material & labour. Huge part of the pricing is covering the costs of R&D, plant investment, energy, taxes, pensions, debt interests & of course profit. In Chinese car companies where the government owns full or controlling shares the most of these financial burdens & risks are covered or non existent. The grants & subsidies US & EU governments give to native companies don’t go anywhere near covering these massive costs.

[@uaesaqer]

one of the best reports I ever seen

[@iainmrodgers9991]

It's funny how you described European companies as selling well in the past because of all sorts of excellent qualities - such as engineering and design - yet now that Chinese companies are overtaking them, it's because of underhanded tactics. This seems to be how politicians think too. When they were trying to get China to open up its economy they were full of rhetoric about free markets, now they have switched to protectionism.

[@udhayakumarMN]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@devalapar7878]

First of all, the video doesn't make those points. It only presents the arguments from all three sides. Second, do you even understand the arguments? Did you understand what happened in Haiti? Do you think that was a good thing? See, we accepted unfair trade practises as long as China was developing. Now, it is a developed country. The West gave China the know-how and the money. You couldn't just open a business in China. You had to partner with Chinese companies and transfer know-how. That was the deal. How did China thank us? China has one of the most protected markets in the world. China is more protectionist than Europe and the US combined. But they didn't only violate copyright and patents. They also flooded our markets with cheap products. Products which receive in China huge subsidies. China doesn't subsidize foreign companies in China. But we do subsidize Chinese products built in Europe and the US. So there are huge differences as you can see. I am sick of it. Nobody is forced to buy Chinese products. We don't owe them anything. Let them sell their products in the third world. I don't care. They hate us, and I have no appetite to support them anymore.

[@Meitti]

That much is true though, chinese EVs are not competing with quality, but with very low prices. Something that meets the demand of poorer eastern european- and south european regions. In China itself before their financial troubles, chinese considered buying chinese products as a sign of poverty.

[@pikapika8294]

@@Meitti Sorry to break it to you, but the average price of a BYD in China is 162 thousand CNY, higher than Volkswagen's 159 thousand CNY.

[@iainmrodgers9991]

@@Meitti The quality of Tesla's Chinese built cars was far higher than their Fremont factory in California. Your point about quality is not 100% accurate. But Tesla did the correct free-market thing. It got some of its Chinese guys to come to the USA and improve procedures. This is how free markets work. Protectionism will cause more problems than it fixes. Having started down the road of more trade with China the West has to understand that it might as well keep going - "where goods cannot cross borders, soldiers soon will" (Winston Churchill).

[@MotoZ7]

27% tariffs and what were calling Tax Credits (not subsidies). That's the free market 😅

[@benchoflemons398]

Right, this is the bastion of liberalism? Doesn’t look like it

[@Tounguepunchfartbox]

A tax credit is a subsidy to the consumer, not the producer. A subsidy would the the government sending Ford a $10,000 check for every EV they build.

[@benchoflemons398]

@@Tounguepunchfartbox it’s fungible. If you give the credit to the consumer you increase demand. The only difference is that one is more politically viable.

[@Tounguepunchfartbox]

@@benchoflemons398 except the consumer subsidy doesn’t directly decrease costs to produce. GM can’t export a $35,000 vehicle at $25,000 because of a consumer tax credit, nor can it price a $35,000 dollar vehicle at $45,000 due to a $10,000 tax credit. With a subsidy, it could do both.

[@samsonsoturian6013]

Quit talking to yourself. No one knows what you mean

[@GOICOBA]

Hearing a european politician complain about China flooding the western market with cheap electronics in 2023 is laughable at best, von der Leyen is a court jester for our union.

[@zacksmith5963]

This shows colonist mindset

[@Dordord]

That woman is just spy from the US

[@tonywyli]

She is loyal to USA

[@xicofaria]

Patrick, things in Brazil changed as per new tariffs from the 1st January. The Brazil manufacturers lobbied to get the electric imported cars to get tariffs like any other ICE car. It's going to be progressive yoy, but in 3 or 4 will match the ICE tariffs.

[@ImpressionsFromEverywhere]

Wanting to rent a car in Saudi Arabia recently, I was first busy googling all the many car models I was offered which I had never heard of. All Chinese. I guess soon enough those model names will be familiar like Toyota, Honda, VW and all the others.

[@doujinflip]

If they last on the market long enough to develop a decent after-sales reliability and maintenance record. Which considering Mainland Chinese attitudes toward quality of service will likely grow much slower than they expect.

[@AK-74K]

@@doujinflip The build quality is very good for these Chinese cars, assume if they want to keep growing their sales, they will have to catch up on their service.

[@advancetotabletop5328]

You mean like all those fly-by-night Chinese brands on Amazon?

[@marklee8512]

​​@@doujinflipGo searching, most of the EV taxis in China could easily run for 1 million Kms. They wouldn't have made it without efficiency after sales services. Plus EVs require less maintenance than ICE cars.

[@user-wl4lk9eg5m]

​@@AK-74K😂，I have SERES M5，almost no need maintenance 20000KM every time only replace air filter

[@MrMakabar]

This is going to be really bad news for OPEC. The EU is the second largest EV market after China and now China is flooding the world with cheap EVs. We are already at 19% of car sales being EVs globally, so this could really destroy the IC car market.

[@rtmpgt]

good.

[@Origami84]

Why would Opec cares? Electricity doesnt come from air, it comes from fossil fuels

[@cdo...49283]

Hopefully, f*ck OPEC.

[@apc9714]

Remeber when Russia (member of OPEC+) accused the West of manipulating oil prices?

[@strigoiu13]

It is nowhere near 19%...19% with hybrids...

[@slevingaius]

Same thing that happened with the mobile phone industry, only in this situation at an accelerated rate.

[@zacksmith5963]

Europe selling cars to China = exports China selling cars to Europe = flooding Racism going strong with a mix of jealousy

[@sighsgkj]

Where're all those "flooding" cars ..... when I looked for a new car a couple months ago Toyota / Ford / Honda / etc. all told me to get on waiting list.

[@Mr.Weed420]

Saloood Patrick and Happiest New Year’s to you brother. Thank you so very much for all the knowledge you share and for keepin it lit af. 🔥 (bro maybe you can do one on the hypocrisy and frivolous spending of the so-called“left”. Something maybe that will get through my boomer parents thick heads. I’d appreciate that as I’ve been unable to accomplish that feat in 45 years. Cheers bro.

[@73BigMC]

TBF to China, it didn’t force Europe to destroy its manufacturing capabilities in the name of net zero.

[@bleack8701]

Exactly. China is pushing their manufacturing while the EU is strangling the European countries. This is the natural result

[@BoogieBoogsForever]

Barely any Chinese cars over here in N.Am.; Canada down through Mexico. I did notice a brand or two (maybe electric) selling in a major shopping mall the other day.

[@tren133]

Barely any Chinese cars in the US, and by extension Canada since they are the quintessential US vassal state. Everything south of the border is open season for Chinese cars, INCLUDING MEXICO. Without a single major manufacturing plant in Mexico (which actually produces 3.5 million cars a year), Chinese cars have already grabbed 20% of the Mexican car market. Just wait until Chinese carmakers open up their own factories in Mexico. They are going to own Latin America's car market within a decade.

[@benfowler1134]

@@tren133 There Americans are already looking for ways to cripple Chinese carmakers setting up shop in Mexico. Nothing is definite, and while the Mexicans may well die mad about it, there are things the Americans won't tolerate in their back yard.

[@georgedoolittle7574]

Where does one even park a car in Europe let alone use one?

[@ryansmithc]

No, China has been placing the building blocks for global expansion since the early 2010's. They only allowed international Auto OEMs to have a joint partnership because they needed to scale domestic factories and create the entire supply chain industry. Now that it has been established, the goal was always to export internationally. Now these Chinese OEMs are waiting for international supply chains to be also built out in trade friendly areas (eastern europe and Mexico). Once Tesla establishes Giga Mexico, they can then build off of that and become global. Chinese companies have also received funding for the upstream and downstream for battery production. This takes time and involves signing lot of agreements. They are simply waiting for the market to grow and Tesla to scale, then compete. To act like of all this wasn't planned and due to poor chinese economy is short sided.

[@NelsonNyairo]

He is so biased towards China that his whole argument becomes obsolete

[@purethinking269]

China invited auto companies to build there so they could steal the tech. That is why their cars have advanced so fast. By comparison, hyundai took over 25 years to catch up in quality and style with others.

[@benfowler1134]

@@purethinking269 Thankfully not all technology is stealable. It wasn't that long ago that Fat Face threw a public tantrum because China still couldn't make a ballpoint pen. When they finally achieved this great feat of industrial might, the entire country celebrated for a week.

[@ghostindamachine]

If analysts and non-Chinese car manufacturers are startled by the meteoric rise of the Chinese vehicle manufacturing sector, then they clearly have been asleep at the wheel. China had over 600 !! car brands and start-ups in the automotive industry. Xi mandated a few years ago that all these companies need to merge and consolidate to around no more than about 100 car manufacturers / brands. For years already Sandy Munro of Munro and Associates has been warning of the coming tsunami of cars out of China (India and Vietnam). Comparing it to the meteoric rise of Japanese car manufacturing in the late 70's and early 80's. Out-competing every other country on volume, price and reliability. And China (India and Vietnam) will repeat this process for sure. But, all things considered, like the switch to electrification, I see it as a good thing. If people need to drive electric; they want an affordable, reliable car. And the Asian car manufacturers (China, Vietnam, India) are fulfilling and will fulfill this demand. And with every evolution, they will get better at this. So, well, shame on the European, US, Japanese and Korean brands and supporting industries for lagging behinds once again. People are not brand-loyal anymore. People are now loyal to what ever car fits their needs. And fits in their financial situation. And if one can get great value at a lesser price point.. Well, then that is the clear decision maker. edit: typo

[@tooltalk]

>> If analysts and non-Chinese car manufacturers are startled by the meteoric rise of the Chinese car manufacturing sector, then they clearly have been asleep at the wheel.

[@georgev8590]

When was the last time you bought something that is cheap and high quality form China? The way it works even in chinese culture is that if you buy something cheap, you have no right to complain about it being absolute crap.

[@MasticinaAkicta]

I would worry more about how long they stay functional. And if something breaks or doesn't works if it gets fixed... it is after all China. Were warrantees don't exist.

[@doodlebug1820]

Are you saying India and Vietnam have taken over by China products or will be producing cats themselves?

[@Meitti]

Chinese cars are not high quality, but they're cheap. Demand for chinese cars is more of a sign of a global recession and its effecs on normal people.

[@socialmedia9681]

Always enjoy your content. Loved it.

[@Jazzmaster71]

Export numbera is one thing, but cars sold is another, they are piled up in port in Rotterdam and other places in Europe. Look around you, not many Chinese EVs on the roads in Europe.

[@honorquest]

Once again, the EU reluctantly does something they've disagreed with Trump on.

[@beigegecko]

certain events made them realize the importance of economic and traditional security, and it’s not about trump at all

[@MrMakabar]

That kind of stuff happened way before Trump. Big example is propably solar with over 50% tariffs on Chinese panels. The problem is that Trump has actually started a trade war with the EU at the same time as he tried to push the EU to start a trade war with China. Needless to say that this is just plain and simply stupid.

[@mugetsu143]

who?

[@honorquest]

@beigegecko So Trump has better insight then because it took the EU several years to come to the same realization.

[@sebastianorye2702]

Maybe. But then again, Chinese BEVs entering the EU market is an extremely new phenomenon. While Trump was early, EU was on time.

[@dennisthornburgh2113]

Just a note to let u know how much I appreciate your well researched productions. While I always thought I was at the top of the game in my profession, you have set a very 'high bar' in your profession.

[@zacksmith5963]

Europe selling cars to China = exports China selling cars to Europe = flooding Racism going strong with a mix of jealousy

[@robincray116]

10:50 They didn't give subsidies for cars in general. Just the EV ones. Given how difficult they made it to get a license plate (non EV) in china, subsidising cars in general makes no sense.

[@brenogi]

BTW, the import tax on EV in Brazil is coming back soon. It's been anounced already.

[@g0r0th]

Hey Patrick, there is a major actor that people seem to forget in this conversation : the country of Morocco. Being right next to Europe, the kingdom has centered its industrial strategy around car and car components manufacturing, reaching a ~8M vehicles exports with a ~70% integration level. The interesting thing is that the country is betting on African cooperation (raw materials) in order to produce critical components for EVs, and tax incentives given to foreign manufacturers to produce said components. They’re also pioneering green hydrogen and renewables in industrial use, to cheapen energy costs and reaching “clean” manufacturing. The biggest companies have massively invested in the country (Japanese, Americans, Korean, German, French, Italians…etc.) and of course the chinese, because the most interesting part is that they have free trade with USA and EU. I believe it is gonna be one of the major automobile player in the future, and playing a massive role in the Chinese auto strategy.

[@maasicas]

Green hydrogen and renewables dont cheapen anything. So far they have made everything more expencive multiple fold.

[@dr.drakeramore2740]

good comment

[@Cymande82]

@maasicas Not true, then again you know nothing about it of course. Onshore Wind Power in 2022 had about 57% lower production cost compared to that of Nuclear which in itself is cheaper than gas and coal. Not to mention that the fossil fuel industry receives subsidies annually of about 5 300 billion dollars world wide.

[@jkuang]

Hi Patrick, I thought you said China is declining. So why is China getting ahead in EV cars?

[@akitadakid6326]

bruh what, just cause a country is doing bad doesn't mean they loose the ability to do something good.

[@aircorgihui43]

And don’t forget all these car companies is owned by the CCP government and it’s highly subsidized

[@user-ch1bs7we3c]

​@@akitadakid6326 了解中国的真相，只需要一张机票。而不是西方的媒体。

[@jkuang]

@@akitadakid6326 Do you know how SERIOUSLY GOOD that is? China is the force that is pushing EV cars forward. It is a whole ecosystem over there. And somehow we are talking about China collapsing or declining ye they are building the future. By the way, they are also building out the ecosystem for chip making. They can now produce 7nm chips AT SCALE. In what way that is not SERIOUSLY GOOD and in what way it is declining with "some good?"

[@harshityadav8698]

​@@akitadakid6326The thing is the industry which they are excelling at isn't just an industry, it's the automobile industry. It alone can change the entire landscape of the country. Plus, the only problem in china is the real estate sector and its related industries, which is going to be fixed soon.

[@SamA-cy8eu]

Japan and EU should think about how they should make their car industry more competitive rather than crying about it!