Why Credit Scores Are a Scam

[@TheGravelInstitute]

We hope you liked this video. We’re doing weekly releases now, and going longer and more detailed - this video was actually filmed out of our new studio in New York. Our first year has been fantastic, but we really need your help to release more stuff and keep growing. We love every single patron: www.patreon.com/gravelinstitute

[@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV]

How much longer? Are you at all worried that people will be less likely to watch the videos if they're longer? I mean the original vision was bite-sized content, wasen't it? I thought from the beginning, that that's very ambitious, because leftist politics has a little more to it than right wing nonsense and when you're trying to explain it, you're also up against decades of propaganda that has burned into people's heads. But so far, you've done a good job.

[@supershinigami1]

In your introductory video you mentioned that people like Bernie Sanders and Slavoj Žižek would also be in your videos. Is this still a plan? And what about Mike Gravel? I know he's dead, may he rest in peace, but wasn't he also supposed to host a video?

[@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV]

@@supershinigami1 bruh... how is a dead person supposed to host a video?

[@supershinigami1]

@@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV Dude, I know that. It's just that they said that he'll also host a video. Also, there is a way to film videos when a person is alive and post them after they died.

[@rickb3650]

@@supershinigami1 Gravel was one of the rarest of people, an honest politician that actually tried do what is right for his constituents, his country, and the world.

[@spartansfan1026]

I took out one loan my entire life, for my education, and paid it off well ahead of time. I busted my ass for that. Earlier this year I tried to bump up my credit score a little by trying to finance a new phone to replace the one I've had since 2015. Trying to make small steps to raise my score to hopefully get a good rate on a mortgage someday. I got denied. My credit score was too low. Too low to make three payments of $170, they apparently thought. After paying over $600 per month for years to repay my student loans. Of course it was a hard inquiry, so it dropped my existing credit score. Fuck. Credit. Scores.

[@spartansfan1026]

Okay, yeah yeah, that reply is a bot. But you know what? My credit score wasn't even "bad" like the example in the bot reply. It was fucking 705 and I couldn't finance a goddamn cell phone.

[@Whatever100500]

​@@spartansfan1026 By the point you are forced to take loans that don't make financial sense for you, credit score already fulfilled it's nefarious purpose. Quite depressing.

[@kimberlychodur3508]

@@spartansfan1026 that's pretty sad 705 is considered in the good range, I don't know why you would have been denied. I paid off my house about 4 years early, my vehicle 2 years early and some credit cards and they dropped my score by 100 points or more. I was over 800 now it's in the 700s. When I had debt, my score was higher, but I was busting my ass every month making payments. When I inherited some money and could pay it off or at least most of it, it drops like a ton of bricks! Fuck the credit score, it's a sham to keep you in debt FOREVER!

[@etuanno]

@@kimberlychodur3508 You see, that's the problem. You paid off the debt "too early", they were making less money ergo you got less profitable and thus you have a lower credit score. I've now read a bit about the credit system in Switzerland, long story short: There is no credit score. There is however a score that determines if you can actually pay the debt (income vs expenses) and didn't default on anything in the last 5 years. It's like how secure your debt is, the securer the debt, the less you pay in interest.

[@simonjaz1279]

@@etuanno paying off debt too early is a bad thing. It shows them you have a sudden influx of money that you may not be able to pay off afterwards. Honestly, the system in switzerland is much like in the us. The only large determining factor is if you are currently in debt and how you have paid it off. Honestly the us needs to add more ways to get an accurate count for it, but for the most part people in credit card debt are terrible with money in the first place and would have defaulted their actual bank accounts instead.

[@jazzsocietyofecuador]

The Gravel Institute is providing a wonderful and important public service. Mike Gravel would be proud of you.

[@Samhallsfeber]

Hard to take The Gravel Institute serous after seeing this video on there take on Ukraine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXeqgnxuhZ51g8k

[@MalayKumar98]

No they are not. They call out outliers where the conservatives have been wrong and ignore every damn thing wrong with socialism. Cancel culture is actually a tool used by socialist and they have killed more than millions across the world, which they conveniently ignore. Name one country which has thrived under socialism.... they will use the argument as religion zealots... "This is not true Socialism"

[@MGC-1977]

I used to volunteer a lot at homeless shelters and found out that the main reason they couldn't get apartments wasn't because of lack of money. It was because of a bad credit score, which was a result of using credit cards (and getting in endless debt) due to some sort of emergency.

[@gwills9337]

@Vikas because public housing crowds-out rapacious private landlords. In America, literally everything is contrived to gatekeep basic needs and extract Rentier profits

[@MGC-1977]

​@Vikas Sadly, in my country the system is stacked against the poor. If you are rich you can anything you want (and even have your own rocket ships) but, once you start going down that spiral towards poverty, there's no way out.

[@kimberlychodur3508]

@Vikas because no one wants it in their neighborhood. When they try to build subsidized housing in this country, the neighbors get together and get it banned.

[@mvito39]

Co signature

[@MGC-1977]

@@mvito39 What are you trying to say?

[@greenleafyman1028]

The most scariest part is there are still a huge amount of people believing that American system is still the best system in the world.

[@LH1980XX]

It is... if your a bank.

[@EvoraGT430]

@@LH1980XX Yep. The key moment in this video is a 9:06

[@hueypautonoman]

I've actually seen people say they will only date someone with a certain credit score.

[@jmm5346]

The entire American system is predatory as fuck lol. Everything i based around making money and fucking the next guy over while you smile and take his money. It's sickening and our populace is too brainwashed to see it. Even the things that are designed to help you are predatorily looking to see how they can take your money. It's sick.

[@victoriancu7358]

It was on paper. But the america dream died 50 years ago.

[@crustjunkie]

I tried to follow the conservative talking point "Just pull yourself up by your bootstraps," "Become your own boss", and start my own business but was denied a loan because I had numerous surgeries due to a life threatening illness that lowered my credit score to 500. Now I'm physically disabled, can't work, and all I got out of it were more medical bills, lower credit, and infinite debt.

[@eyyy2271]

I'm so sorry to hear that. This country is absolutely unforgivable...

[@crustjunkie]

@@eyyy2271 Thank you. It truly is.

[@ulysses7157]

The bootstraps are a myth. They never existed in this country.

[@Effective_tool_of_Satan]

@@ulysses7157 in fact that phrase is supposed to be ridiculous, impossible.

[@pozloadescobar]

I'm sorry guy. I admit I often fall into bootstraps thinking, but I have endless sympathy for the folks who were railroaded by our inhumane unhealthcare system

[@gweegoop7781]

It’s insane that our credit rating agencies are for profit companies.

[@rickb3650]

For profit and immune from consequences.

[@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999]

Virtually everything is where hyper-capitalism reigns

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

And that one of them is still allowed to even exist after having poor security practices that lead to sensitive data on HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people being exposed. A just world would've dissolved such a company or simply allowed anyone whose data was exposed to claim compensation from an uncapped pool, first eating into the money of the company, and then into the money of its board members, not just in terms of money they have in the bank, but assets, even their primary residence. A just world would've left the executives responsible penniless, and on the streets; dying of exposure to the elements dressed in rags with the company they lead being nothing more than a faint memory on the dismal record of humanity. Not what might as well have literally been a slap on the wrist while only allowing those in the US who signed up for monitoring receive compensation.

[@BTrain-is8ch]

Ratings agencies work for lenders not for you. Credit scoring is not a public service. Of course it's for profit.

[@user-gz4ve8mw9l]

In the USA everything is for sale and has a price. Everything and everyone is for profit and thus human lives are commodified. The coporate oligarchy and their puppet politicians will ensure we remain slaves. Unless we rise up in revolt and refuse en mass.

[@Justbemyselff]

Your organization is what is keeping knowledge of these events alive and showing people that a different reality is possible. Thank you.

[@Blaze6108]

Credit score actually makes a lot more sense if you imagine it not as "how financially responsible you are" or "how creditworthy you are", but rather as "how much profit can the bank milk out of you". If you see it this way, it suddenly makes sense why paying off a loan lowers your score: by paying it off immediately, the bank can't profit from the interest on the remaining payments or the potential late payment fees.

[@wyattb3138]

My dad has a great credit score because he is in constant debt. I don’t understand it, so I grew up not getting things I wanted and then went through college on mostly scholarships and then got a small student loan. I got my first job and then he wanted me to get get a new truck because it will start my credit. Now I gotta car to finance and pay $12000 in interest when it’s done. I was gonna get a used car paid in full but at least I build my credit. I told him that credit score is a scam and he changed his attitude when I said the government tracks you with it.

[@marz8386]

It’s interesting to see a bunch of memes about the Chinese “social credit” system being pretty normal and acceptable in internet culture. And yet, “credit scores,” which have a similar name, function, level of influence, and are even more predatory, exist here in America and nobody seems to question it. Very fascinating video.

And the Chinese social credit is mostly fake as well.

[@blindedjourneyman]

Cognitive dissonance is a night marish battle

[@mrnobodyplays147]

@ not really. The chinese government does admit that it is true, its just not as strict/stupid as people claim (some people actually argue that listening to English songs lower your credit score lol)

[@Little_Sidhe]

False equivalence, our credit score isn't based around moral values set by the state.

[@genieglasslamp5028]

@@Little_Sidhe And neither is chinas.

[@Kinography]

It’s so wild that people are like “haha social credit” when we have this ridiculous system

[@davidegaruti2582]

Yeah , the fact is you see what the social credit does and it mostly targets buisnesses that violate food safety laws

[@comicconcarne]

-100 FICO score

[@Chunmeista]

So social credit is so bad because communism apparently, but suddenly the right has zero complaints when it comes to FICO credit. It's like they're trying to make wealth related to credit/"morality". 🤔

[@memesthatmakeyouwannadie3133]

As long as it's not the government doing it, they'll let any horrible system stand forever.

[@kevinmclarkey621]

Tbf, it's the fucking same with a different coat of paint

[@AllTimeScary]

Fantastic as always. Credit scores are such a rigged and awful system for most.

[@loublev5098]

No credit score will open up new doors for you.

[@newskiee]

@@loublev5098 no it wont

[@Thommy2n]

A friend of mine was able to buy a house cash upfront (probably one of the few millenial generation people I know who’s able to.) Far from anything grand, just a tiny little out of the way fixer upper with enough space for their dogs. Their credit score went down. For being able… to actually maneuver… through this predatory economic system… they were punished for it.

[@blindedjourneyman]

Which is why you ignore it, and keep going. Punishment means nothing if it can't affect your life style.

[@Thommy2n]

@@blindedjourneyman Sure. Unless if they have unforeseen expenses where they might need a loan (like if the house needs renovations/repairs), getting a good home owners insurance rate, a credit extension. Or... you know... if their looking for a different job that does background checks including credit score. But what are the odds of any of those happening? *He said sarcastically*

[@blindedjourneyman]

@@Thommy2n again, this system is evil if you choose to.step out of it no ammount of repentance will save you. Cause they wish to make an example out of outliers. Those that choose not to play the game once are so harshly punished there is no point in turning back. it'll be hard even hellish, but there is no choice lest you wish to be bankrupted.

[@BTrain-is8ch]

That doesn't even make sense. They made a cash purchase, didn't seek any financing so the reporting agencies wouldn't have been in the loop on the matter, and you're saying their credit score dropped as a result?

[@JanieBee]

@@blindedjourneyman yeah but the irs won't let you ignore any of that. Ppl get their homes taken, licenses taken and wages garnished. It sucks but we really gotta do something about this

[@racewiththefalcons1]

I would love to see a companion piece to this video that discusses how the wealthy can take out loans against their investments with super-low interest rates, no credit check, no timeline to pay back the principle, and no taxes on the loan. It's called "buy, borrow, die" because they only have to pay the interest, which is actually tax-deductible. And if the investments borrowed against pay dividends, those dividends can pay for the interest, so it's literally free money given out to those who are already wealthy with essentially no penalty whatsoever. There is not even a penalty when the borrower actually dies, because their children can inherit the assets "stepped up" and sell the appreciated value of the investment incurring no capital gains tax. The whole system is designed to benefit people with money and punish people without it. It's inhumane and purely evil, and rewards selfishness.

[@thatdamncrow9197]

Yea the point of interest is due to the risk If someone is rich there is very low risk But if they poor they are high risk

[@sonic8005]

@@thatdamncrow9197 the higher risk helps keep them poor

[@AdmiralBison]

Access to expensive accountants Good friends with bank mangers and their families - like if one’s kids go to the same private schools Live in the same area codes Don’t need a good credit score. Bush jnr bankrupted his oil business still gets finance easily Trump is notorious for not paying his bills and loans, but a Dutch bank is happy to finance him in the millions Also helps if you friends with politicians that give give tax breaks/tax incentives to your business. Many, many ways for the already wealthy to get more money.

[@AdmiralBison]

Oh… and speaking of area codes Do you know many poor dense urban areas actually finance more affluent vehicle centric suburbs? Because dense urban areas are more “tax” efficient - more offices, more stores, etc… that go towards state revenue than expensive suburban sprawls.

[@thatdamncrow9197]

@@sonic8005 yes but many poor people also make bad financial decisions Literally economic collapses have happened because of people not paying back loans And its hard to expect a bank to trust someone who has a record of not paying debt

[@evan]

This was absolutely incredible. Such great editing and delivery. One weird part about moving from the US to the UK was my credit score basically started over. All the good credit I'd worked to build growing up was nonexistent now. Positive is that the student loans from the US are not considered in the UK at all and you can mostly get away without paying them indefinitely provided you file correctly

[@TheGravelInstitute]

Thank you Evan!

[@landon.packrat3281]

When I paid my house off, my credit score dropped 40 points. Worth it.

[@kevintewey1157]

Wtaf?

[@landon.packrat3281]

@@kevintewey1157 I know, right?

[@blitzn00dle50]

???? You'd think that would be good

[@landon.packrat3281]

​@@blitzn00dle50 It's good for me. Less so for the bank collecting interest payments. The answer is to look at real estate advice for professionals. They don't expect anyone to actually pay off their house. You're expected to keep refinancing (cash out!) or upgrading.

[@LaB567]

Right - pay your loans on time and in full and your credit score will be excel- wait. It’s so ass backwards and stupid.

[@megaclodsire]

I am full of rage, but in a very chill and nonchalant way

[@megaclodsire]

@Lex it's wooper

[@megaclodsire]

@Lex ok

[@TIENxSHINHAN]

"Wells Fargo called the ghetto loans... referred to the individuals... as mud people" Honestly racism be so insane and cartoonish at times, I can't help but laugh. Like I've never heard white people say this to my face so to hear how racists talk when they're alone can be a trip.

[@ingislakur]

Victim mentality my dude

[@severdislike4222]

Oh you are in for a disgusting treat. Look up mudsill theory and it continuing modern application. Holy shit is it gross.

[@gannibalof21st]

@@ingislakur wtf. Stay apathetic and please do say that to people's faces. Would love to see that.

[@starlightt4094]

Im taking my money out of wells fargo that company has been trash for a while

[@satori-in-life]

Bro... I"ve never heard anyone say that shit. The racist MFer's that said that shit are fucking monsters.

[@HeckaLives]

"Wouldn't it be dystopic if we had to live under a system like the Chinese social credit system?" *Yeah, wouldn't having to rigidly adhere to a number, which socially constrains you, suck?*

[@jacktenrec63]

have you seen bro jogan talking with some goof that sells get rich quick schemes on YT and they were scaring his dim witted audience with what you just quoted ?

[@the80386]

and the thing is, the Chinese 'social credit' system isn't even what it's made out to be in western media. it's much less 'all encompassing' and mostly targets business and transactions rather than peoples' behaviour. but why be unbiased when you can stir up jingoism instead?

[@inefffable]

Americans make fun China and North Korea all the time, while failing to see the parallels, or brushing them away as "it's not the exact same so I can ignore it"

[@GhostOnTheHalfShell]

It’s a surveillance state. Or as Varoufakis says, capitalism has already mutated into something worse, techno feudalism. Platforms control the products, services and the prices we are offered, while controlling what we see. And yes, this very platform is one of them. The requirements of a free market or free society fail in our current situation. The coup has already happened as I like to say.

[@pozloadescobar]

It's really not that hard dude. Just pay your bills on time and don't run a balance. Voila, good credit!

[@reggiep75]

Credit scores are a sign of how easy it is to dupe people into getting into more debt than is viable for them.

[@xam113w]

It's not really being duped into it, it's being forced with the threat of homelessness for many.

[@TrueMithrandir]

bingo!

[@redbean9410]

dont buy things you cant afford?

[@StockyDude]

My credit score is 806 and I almost never pay interest. I use my credit card for all purchases but pay off the balance before the monthly statement is released. I earn reward points for every dollar I repay, then use the reward points to pay off smaller purchases. If anything, I’m the one screwing over Visa and AmEx. I do my research and play it smart. Most of the people whining about getting cheated are just too lazy to do their own research. In reality, no matter what help or social benefits they may receive, they would still be poor, because if they’re not willing to do their own research, then they don’t have the mindset to be successful in the first place.

[@GhostOnTheHalfShell]

Debt has been used to exploit people for centuries. “I owe my soul to the company store” is an old lyric.

[@awhahoo]

15 tons, if I remember correctly, is a song that use that lyric

[@noax7635]

A credit score doesn't determine how trustworthy you are, its a way for financial institutions and businesses to let eachother know how much interest they can sucker out of you.

[@IceQueenaliasIQ]

Germany is different btw.. We don't have such a big culture of consumer debt. Europe in general I would say. We also have a different Score called "Schufa"-score.

[@blitzn00dle50]

In my personal finance class I keep straight up saying on assignments "the purpose of a credit card is to take advantage of people who don't or can't pay back charges" I do NOT mask my hatred for free markets in that class

[@TrueMithrandir]

bingo!

[@redbean9410]

stop buying things you wouldnt pay for with cash on the spot and you'd be fine.

[@rennnnn914]

As someone who has never had a credit card and paid bills with cash I find it unfair that I'm judged badly because I don't go into debt.

[@buttercuptaylor7135]

You aren't bad, just lucky. And you probably never had devistating medical bills or a huge student loan debt.

[@rennnnn914]

@@buttercuptaylor7135 sorry, I meant judged badly by those who use credit ratings to decide on their relationship with you, such as banks.

[@introvertdude99]

I’ve been judged by my own mom who has several credit cards and loans

[@jhonshephard921]

I applied for a really nice apartment with no credit score. I was afraid I would be denied even when I could pay but when they asked why I have no score, I told them for religious reasons(I never told them my religion by my real name makes it obvious) I don't use a credit card and only used debit card. I got approved. That said, you shouldn't have to even explain this and people shouldn't have to claim to be Muslim or from some old sects of Christianity to avoid credit checks when you can show your last few pay stubs and a bank statement or similar.

[@mashno226rz]

That seriously worked? Where is this?

[@jamesa.646]

SMH and people are only focusing about China's social credit while being ignorant of credit scores smh

[@Riveloperinc]

A group of people who get wealthy off the labor of another group, by using laws and regulations to protect them sounds familiar.😒

[@teeth-man]

You could be like my political science professor from college, and spend your whole life working on your credit score to near perfection, only to get cancer, rack up an unpayable amount of medical debt, and have your credit score ruined in such a short time because you couldn't possibly pay it back. It's sad that declaring bankruptcy is one of the most freedom granting things an American citizen can do.

[@Rahbinah]

I've learned through family members that bankruptcy does not damage your credit as much as some would believe. It takes about a year after filing chapter 7 for your credit score to start increasing and one can obtain credit cards and lines of credit thereafter. It makes sense though because they want to keep you on the debt hamster wheel.

[@tias.6675]

LOL !!!! Sick.

[@dragontyron]

"credit scores were invented in the 80's" went a _long_ way in radicalizing me

[@PantsMasterPlays]

Not just the 80's, but *the end of the 80s*

[@PedanticNo1]

How am I just now finding this channel? This is right up my alley, thanks for you time and efforts!

[@dizzymetrics]

Fantastic video. With all the memes of a social credit score, it's a great opportunity to tell USA citizens that they have had the same garbage long ago. Denial of employment, rent, or even opening up a bank account is indefensible.

[@JukeboxTheGhoul]

I agree, both credit scores and social credit scores are bad

[@davidegaruti2582]

@@JukeboxTheGhoul how is social credit materially bad ?

[@JukeboxTheGhoul]

@@davidegaruti2582 The same way regular credit scores are bad. Gatekeeping mortgages and stuff behind certain behaviours. what's materially good about a social credit score?

[@georgebrown1543]

Why is that they check your credit when renting an apartment, but paying your rent on time month after month doesn't go toward your credit score?

[@greenearthblueskies8556]

Great point

[@redbean9410]

its cuz rent isnt debt. ur not paying back a loan, ur just paying. its the same thing as asking why paying for a new macbook doesn't increase your credit. cuz its not debt, its just a purchase.

[@bloodshotred6334]

​​@@redbean9410yes but we are constantly told that the dredit score reflects your financial responsibility. So you would think that paying rent on time every single month for 15 years should surely improve our credit score intuitively but it doesn't.

[@MiKi-sx3tt]

As someone outside USA, this video really mind-blowing. And make me realize why there's such a thing as food insecurity in the country supposedly wealthiest in the world.

[@theggfloupin4084]

It’s weird. When you think about it’s basically the American equivalent to china’s social credit score.

[@redbean9410]

a wealthy country doesn't necessarily mean the citizens of said country are wealthy

[@GTAVictor9128]

Funny how much people screamed at China's social credit system and how much it repressed personal freedom, all the while being ignorant of the fact that it's not that much different from the US's credit score system. And as it turns out, the Chinese social credit was overblown way out of proportion.

[@ulysses7157]

That fact is that china's social credit system turned out to be very boring and tame. Which is hilarious seeing these china haters foaming in the mouth trying to rally support to fight the Chinese government. Not defending china though. Just saying.

[@jacobr5627]

They both suck

[@noelnotcole7940]

China and the USA are two sides of the same coin, but both countries refuse to admit it

[@KikomochiMendoza]

The Social Credit score is nefarious for a different reason than the US Credit Score. Social Credit Score rewards/punishes in order to regulate behavior. Instead of passing laws a score is used to incentivize/disincentivize certain acts. The US Credit Score was supposed to gauge a person's ability to hold credit, but as aptly explained in the video is used by a financial system to encourage living on debt. Both are terrible in their own right. But its like comparing apples to oranges on which is system is worse.

[@thatdamncrow9197]

@@noelnotcole7940 except china sends kids to military school for playing games

[@catoflado4977]

So USA actually has a Social Credit system since 1989? Thats crazy

[@JD-jl4yy]

I'm European and didn't even know this was a thing in the US lol

[@EvoraGT430]

They're trying to bring it into the UK as well. Screw that crap.

[@herohero-fw1vc]

In Japan, such a system does not exist. Almost everything is cash.

[@bigchurp]

Wow really?

[@kimberlychodur3508]

@@EvoraGT430 the last thing your country needs to follow the U.S. lead in anything. But the greedy have invaded everywhere. I just hope you don't adopt our healthcare system. You'll soon find out what medical bankruptcy means in a hurry.

[@blitzn00dle50]

!! ATTENTION CITIZEN !! You still have a charge on your credit card that has not been paid back! Target - $34.66 🕛This payment is now late, and so you've been charged $6.88 in interest. 🔴8 points have been deducted from your credit score. 🇺🇸With liberty and justice for all!🇺🇸

[@deez5710]

I love how people make fun of China for its “social credit” system when this kind of shit exists in their own country bruh. This credit system is life ruining.

[@johnnyonthespot4375]

I have never cared about my credit score and have never done much intentionally to affect it until my vehicle died and I had to get a new one. Oddly, somehow my score had gone up to 760 when I applied for the loan (amazing timing) but then a stranger thing happened - I have made every payment perfectly but somehow my score is now at 560 and the only thing different in my life is this vehicle. Humans are not the client here - they are the product.

[@josephsmith3658]

It makes you wonder why they drive down your credit score when you make a hard inquiry about what your score is. Your credit score is not for you to know for yourself, so you can become financially stable, per se; but a calculation for them so they know who to offer credit, and who not, and obscenely profit.

[@bobbun9630]

The assumption is that making a hard inquiry means you're about to take on more debt. All other things being equal, more debt represents a higher risk to lenders than less debt. If you want to buy into the model presented here that credit scores are about profits, not risk, then understand that risk represents the probability of default in this case and defaults cost money and thus reduce profits.

[@tiffanysedits5406]

We are ALWAYS the target.

[@ingislakur]

you think so,?

[@SA-op4xu]

@@ingislakur are you black ?

[@ingislakur]

@@SA-op4xu naahhh fam, im a white,

[@SA-op4xu]

@@ingislakur unfortunate.

[@cardiiiiii]

@@ingislakur ew lol

[@ryancooper6949]

Love you guys, you all are doing great work.

[@bnice1374]

I've never understood the American credit scores. Where I live you get judged on disposable income, so having loans is actually a bad thing when you want to buy, rent or apply for a loan. In my opinion this is the responsible and rational way to things.

[@Naruedyoh]

In Europe a semipublic number that dictates your credit history would imply millions on data protection fines. Asking this to hire someone would simply shut the companies for asking such sensible and unneccesary data

[@EvoraGT430]

They run credit scores in the UK, so I'm not sure this is true.

[@Naruedyoh]

@@EvoraGT430 Europe i said

[@bobbun9630]

FICO scores don't actually contain any information about your credit history. They're a statistical score, most likely based on a regression model, that predicts the risk associated with a population of individuals with similar scores. Actual credit history is used to compute the score, but the actual data isn't present in a three digit number.

[@Naruedyoh]

@@bobbun9630 Still is some private information given publicly

[@draneym2003]

Begs the question that if capitalism leads to a higher standard of living, why are we always being told to tighten our belts more often than ever?

[@GTAVictor9128]

Exactly! Just like how much people remind us about the evils of communism (ie: state-capitalism), while remaining ignorant of all the people who were subjected to slavery and starvation under capitalism - after all, capitalism was and still is the main driving force behind slavery. I'm not excusing state-capitalism, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy.

[@ThatsOnYoutube]

Capitalism leads to a higher standard of living for the 1%.

[@jdawg443]

I used to live debt free and had terrible credit. I had to start buying things on a credit card to prove I could be trusted to rent a car 🤔

[@cookiecola5852]

That is ridiclous

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

I'm working with my credit union to get a good credit score. My 1k loan will end up costing me like $60 and as long as I pay it off in full my new credit card is 0 interest. I hate that I have to do this shit on the first place to get a mortgage but my piece of advice is use a credit union and not a bank.

[@pippincovington1348]

I'm debt free, presumably my credit is awful. At least I'm not a slave to debt tho

[@GEN512X]

So long as those things you buy are needful items you were going to buy anyhow; and have the funds to pay for it already... Then you are not in "debt". You are leveraging the banks money instead of your own, and paying them back without interest. Credit cards are the only supposed "debt" instrument; that actually does not require you to make the banks money by paying interest if used responsibly. We just have a society that is financially illiterate with them (not the poor who depend on them to get by), and it took me 20 years of giving the banks insane interest to get educated about them properly. My ignorance was the highest debt I have ever paid; not the credit card.

[@KayossSZ]

38 years old, never used a credit card in my life. I'm kind of proud of that now.

[@deborahf.rausch1135]

I had an EVICTION JUDGEMENT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and quite a number of other negative items on my report with a low 400's CREDIT SCORE. These prevented me from getting a mortgage until I starting looking for help. After he finished working on my REPORT in just 14 days, my CREDIT SCORE increased to 780, all the negative items on my REPORT were deleted permanently and he added good trade-lines to boost my credit mix (Mortgage trade-lines, Installment trade-lines, Revolving credit cards and Auto tradelines) on my report, I got the mortgage and that was phenomenal! ,thanks to Michael Gibbs ---[[e-mail]]--

[@georgekostaras]

Lucky bastard

[@narumango22]

How did you do it? I'm still young and want to do the same in the future.

[@richiandino8187]

@@narumango22 hey. Sorry for the late reply. I do not know how he did it but you can absolutely live without credit. In fact, I will assure you will be 100 times happier. You can start by realizing that a credit score is only used in big cities and big Towns where the suits are pretty much controlling the city. Communities where bars, restaurants and farms are located are the best way to escape it. Communities are always happier because it is inexpensive to live in those places, most of the villages work for the greater good of the community and not for the big suits. Do your own research. I have studied agriculture and almost if not all the farmers I've met have told to stay far away from credit, loans and pensions and let me tell you, they may have their economic problems but they can and will have the freedom of getting out of that economic issue. They seem happier than a city person.

[@narumango22]

@@richiandino8187 I appreciate the reply! I'll try to do my research like you suggested, and I'll consider what you said when I look for a place to settledown. Like you said, I feel like life would be less stressful without it.

[@buttercuptaylor7135]

We already had the FHA to insure the banks would get their money, but that wasn't enough for the greedy Capitalists.

[@dingdud6602]

Wait…Americans have a “scoring system” for their people?

[@AvatarBowler]

Yes. It’s pathetic as hell. 😑

[@fireant202]

Lol getting a “improve your credit score” add mid video was too funny. Thanks Experian. KZbin’s ad engine messing up.

[@normanclatcher]

Functioning well for the citizenry, it seems.

[@trunoholdaway2114]

This is a difficult discussion to have with people, especially those high on easy debt. They see all this immediate gains, feel accomplished, and rather not think about what that means for thier future. Furthermore by the time they've made a huge commitment to debt there is nothing they can do except to continue the cycle.

[@Aria-Invictus]

I went to get an inexpensive apartment to rent. They did a background check and rejected me due to sole reason of lack of a credit history. i offered to show them my savings and checking, having more than enough money to pay rent, showing also i have a full time job and also offered to pay a full years rent with security deposit upfront and they still rejected me. Unbelievable!

[@MiguelRPD]

Damn I feel this so hard. I've been struggling with credit card debt for 10 years. It's time for a change ...

[@pozloadescobar]

It's not cancer. It's not lupus. It's not dyslexia. It's something that you can change by increasing your income or decreasing your expenses

[@InevitableTruth247]

@@pozloadescobar ah, so finding a better paying job in my area, and not renting. Why didn’t I think of that before? Thanks internet stranger!

[@pozloadescobar]

@@InevitableTruth247 I know it sounds inhuman and callous, but that is indeed the blueprint. Homeownership is out of reach for nearly every normal person right now, but smart budgeting can also relieve a lot of expense pressure. I have too many peers who buy new cars they can't afford & eat $10k/yr in delivery food

[@pozloadescobar]

@@jackbarrjohnston9138 You're right, it IS expensive to be poor. When I got a job after being homeless, biweekly paychecks and debt obligations meant I couldn't cash flow anything but an expensive weekly rental for a while. The world stomps on you when you're poor, but even still, fixing the income problem gets you out of the jam eventually. We can all fix our income problems if we try for it

[@mizjulio]

@@pozloadescobar If everyone is getting stomped maybe it's better not to individualize the system (althought it's good to take care of your life as much as possible) but to identify and rally against the boot that stomps

[@Problematist]

It's welfare for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor systematized.

[@user-gz4ve8mw9l]

Socialism seems to be working quite well for the oligarchical elites now doesn't it.

[@PaulThronson]

I am a senior exec at a employee owned bank and this great information. I'm proud to financially support The Gravel Institute.

[@o0Avalon0o]

I'm really happy a channel like this is around. It would be better if even more people could see it. Thanks for your hard work making this factual & entertaining.

[@aliciagarliepp7330]

Of course when I watch a video about the scam of credit scores, I get an ad giving me advice to higher my credit score 😂

[@simonjaz1279]

Because credit cards are awesome

[@averagezing]

For years, I've said that not enough people talk about credit scores in politics. Thank you for bringing it to attention.

[@Artycashew]

Amazing job. I love how informative, Accurate, and easy to listen to gavel institute videos are.

[@theleftnetwork]

Woah, the animation in this video is beautiful. I like how y’all are trying different animation styles, yet maintaining the same Institute look/feel. Keep up the great work y’all!

[@Andy-km1xp]

@ChestBurster-In-A-Can which*

[@latentcc9448]

"We see that credit, instead of being an instrument for the suppression or the attenuation of crises, is on the contrary a particularly mighty instrument for the formation of crises. It cannot be anything else." - Rosa Luxemburg, Reform Or Revolution, Chapter 2: The Adaptation of Capital

[@debrasue2793]

i hear people flippantly compare gravel videos to prageru and i honestly cannot understand how one compares verifiable facts and a basic understanding of economics and history to an absolute fantasy world of "race realism" and fash/owning-class apologia

[@pozloadescobar]

Because this is also propaganda, it's just propaganda against the very evil financial sector. To say it's propaganda is not a value judgment. It just means that, like PragerU, it's content designed to change your mind.

[@pidgey6830]

Because the gravel institute was specifically conceptualized and pushed to provide a similar type of content to PragerU, the "Anti-PragerU", if you will. It attempts to have similar arguments delivered in a similar way while basing those arguments in sourced fact rather than... nothing.

[@ZeldagigafanMatthew]

@@pidgey6830 And telling a more complete version of history, instead of stopping in the 60s when going over the histories of the Democrat and Republican parties. This is the main reason why I think "Inconvenient truth about the Democrat/Republican party(ies)" are the worst videos produced by Prager, because they are truthful, but stop at a point where the two parties switch at least on civil rights.

[@bobbun9630]

The videos here are better than the "material" (pure excrement) coming out of PragerU, but I don't think I would take what's here as totally factual. There is persuasion going on, and taking everything here as factual and objective can definitely lead you down the garden path. Take this video for example... You might imagine after watching this that credit scores are some horrible scarlet letter that's branded on one's humanity. It's really the predatory lending that's the problem, though. The credit score is just one tool in the toolkit of the lenders, it's not the boogeyman in and of itself. Taking action against credit scoring will do nothing to stop predatory lenders--they have many tools. The idea that the credit score isn't about assessing risk and is instead about profits is particularly problematic, because these things are linked. Debt defaults cost lenders money and thus reduce profits. The goal of any lender is to get the maximum return (loan revenues) for the least risk (default, interest rate changes, etc.) The real misuse of credit scores is that a credit score is a statistical measure and says very little about the real risk posed by an individual. It only says what the risk is for all the people who have a similar score taken collectively. That could be either good or bad. It's good in the sense that the scoring algorithm is probably more objective than a person when making the assessment. It's also good for banks, because banks are making thousands of these loans (millions for some lenders) and thus they really are working with a population, even if you view the business from your individual perspective. It's bad if you need to make a case based on your personal circumstances in order to justify your claim of creditworthiness, because your score will never reflect your individuality.

[@RefugeeKLicious]

Not for nothing but my great grandfather told me, “if you can’t afford it in cash, then don’t buy it.” I’ve avoided credit cards for 32 years and I don’t plan on opening up one soon. Fuck a credit score.

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

Gonna be hard to buy a house with cash.

[@rickb3650]

That's a fine sentiment and will save you trouble. However, the game is rigged and a low or no credit score effects far more than your credit. You can be denied housing, employment, insurance, among other activities, and there is nothing you can do about it as the industry has legal protection from any consequences. You can not fully participate in American life without a credit score.

[@narumango22]

How did you do it for 32 years? I would like to do that same so I'm curious.

[@RefugeeKLicious]

@@rickb3650 what does “fully participating in American life” mean? Or mean to you?

[@RefugeeKLicious]

@@narumango22 I live a simple,frugal lifestyle 🤷‍♂️ don’t require a credit card for that.

[@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999]

One of the most tangibly important and worthwhile educational videos you guys have ever made. Thank you.

[@barryallen2024]

obsessed w the thumbnail

[@user-fp8xc8lf3f]

I'm comitted to living a life without debt, for a variety of reasons but not playing the credit score rigged game is one of them. After 2 years I've saved about 50% to pay cash for a small $150000 condo. I don't make a lot of money, if you're reading this you can do it too!

[@anthonyjohn4380]

Unemployed, credit score 818,never missed a house payment in 26 years and can't even refinance my house,all bullshit.

[@delsucksatgames4926]

As someone who has never had a credit card and has no idea what my credit score is, it's refreshing to know that what I've said for my entire adult life is proven correct. "Credit cards are traps."

[@Dzanarika1]

Good for you.

[@SuperTrainStationH]

China's social credit system is creepy and authoritarian, but what about a system that rates people trustworthiness based on how much CASHFLOW they can generate for corporations by being perpetually cycling through debt?

[@vg7985]

It's capitalism,. Marx called financial capitalism last stage of capitalism. It's obviously not sustainable.

[@regulusvii]

I'll be honest, I don't much about the specifics of China's social credit score, but I think the idea of one could be useful, just maybe easily abused. The first point I'll make is it should be reward-based not debt-based or something that can harm you, but something that can incentivize people to increase it or get more points. Then it can be used for community service actions, where picking up trash in your community will boost your score or give points or holding social events or helping people. What the points or score would be used for, I'm not entirely sure, but if you had some scoring or point system that was reward based, then it would incentivize people to be more active and caring about their community. Use shit like this to help the community, not to harm and profit.

[@peterlyov3445]

China's system is mainly used and intended for small and medium sized businesses who try to tax evade or break any laws, it's extremely rarely used for individuals in society and when it is it's very trivial. Most people that do the "China credit score meme" are probably clueless kids

[@SuperTrainStationH]

Clueless kid? A system that can be used to ban individuals from riding the train for contradicting the government over things as simple as doubting the effectiveness of a martial arts system the government is promoting is as fucked up, “it only happens sometimes, and when it does it’s trivial” isn’t an excuse I accept for government abuse of individuals in the western world and China doesn’t get a pass from me for that either. China being good about things like protecting people from predatory MLM style business models does not make them invulnerable to imperfection.

[@peterlyov3445]

@@SuperTrainStationH I seriously doubt it's ever been used to ban individuals from taking the train. Do you have any credible source to back up that claim? Again it's main intended use is for corporations and small businesses who violate the law

[@meatrace]

As someone with a high credit school, I'm here to tell you that Gravel Institute is wrong. Your credit score is absolutely an objective measure of your worth as a human. Source: self-reinforcing bias.

[@noelnotcole7940]

Man you really had me in the first half. Good Satire.

[@catofthecastle1681]

You’re not the brightest lightbulb in the pack, huh?

[@noelnotcole7940]

@@catofthecastle1681 "source: self-reinforcing bias" COME ON there's no way this is unironic

[@meatrace]

@@catofthecastle1681 says the guy who failed to catch the joke

[@ValliW]

Fun fact: other countries don't have credit scores. It is purely an american concept

[@horusthreesixteen3843]

As a Canadian, for years I use to laugh at the American Credit Score Scam. Not so funny anymore as it is now growing in popularity in Canada too! In fact, the lead in Utube commercial was a Canadian Credit Score Company that will give u "for FREE" your credit score...🤯 So wanted to click on it to see how they obtain the capital to run this "Supposed FREE Service". No, someone will do a video on that soon enough...

[@mynameismarlys]

My husband and I have spent 20 years trying to live by these numbers. Now I understand why they're just broken mirrors. So many people are suffering because we've all been reduced to data points of profit. Outside a total revolution to reverse deregulation and institute a universal basic income, I don't think we're ever going back to being humans. And I miss being human.

[@Dzanarika1]

It has become only a vague memory.

[@lordeverybody872]

The trick to getting credit is to play the game the banks are. Do not give actual financial numbers. Inflate those salaries. Get several credit cards. Make a few purchases. Be sure and pay them off. I went from no credit to a very high score in no time. Of course, I never used the carda to buy big ,.always small manageable purchases.

[@marisanya]

As someone who avoids loans and debt whenever possible, the idea that credit score goes down when you pay off a loan or don’t use your credit card often is ludicrous.

[@aleksszukovskis2074]

how else would you increase company profit?

[@AstralPhnx]

It's absolutely fucking ridiculous. I don't have a credit card at all for the reason of "I don't want that shit"

[@austingonzalez1148]

Your credit score is based off a report of your finances. Without credit, no one knows it's because youre a good saver with good money habits

[@52flyingbicycles]

My dad keeps telling me to get a credit card so that I can increase my credit score. He had an immaculate record of paying off his debts all his life and developed a nice neat egg, but every year he becomes “riskier” because he doesn’t have any debt to pay anymore. I can easily afford to pay off a credit card bill in full every month (companies call those guys dead beats) but refuse. Debit all the way.

[@doktormcnasty]

Your credit score isn't reporting how good & responsible you are, it's reporting how profitable you are. It's only a coincidence that those who default on loans are also not profitable. Your credit score isn't for you, it's for those who make money off of you. If you pay off your loans quicker & pay your credit cards in full then you're not very profitable & therefore your 'credit' score is lower.

[@stevekatz3032]

When I paid off my car loan I lost 40 points off my credit score, and the next month I paid off my mortgage and lost 60 more. I had paid off all my debts and my credit score was trash.

[@tranger4579]

Lucky you I lost over 100

[@stevekatz3032]

@@tranger4579 Between the auto loan and the mortgage I lost 100 in 45 days. I was now debt free, had over $1500 a month in additional disposable income and a credit score that wouldn't allow me to buy a milk shake. I lived off cash for the next 2 years.

[@tranger4579]

@@stevekatz3032 it's a scam.

[@stevekatz3032]

@@tranger4579 No, it's a 3 card monte game, played with no pea under any shell.

[@Komatic5]

I love how i got a credit karma ad on this

[@toyotaprius79]

Cool thumbnail

[@justaname2422]

I work for a credit card company (sucks I know but they actually treat us insanely well as far as employers go) and credit rating is 10000000% a scam fuck that shit I've seen so many people's lives ruined because of identity theft and the credit card companies don't care since they still get money. Fuck this industry I genuinely wish I could do more but I'd be making below poverty wages without this job. Someday I'll spill some beans but man I wish wage slavery wasn't a thing.

[@LardGargantuus]

sabotage their operations from the inside. fuck these predatory scumbags, let them rot!

[@xancarpenter4196]

This explains why there haven't been a large wage increase since the 80s or 90s. As the price inflation rate went up. The more they price gouged people to use their credit cards.

[@xam113w]

When I tried to explain to a realtor that my credit took a nosedive very recently for a very arbitrary reason involving a credit card annual fee that went unnoticed, they just looked at me like I was crazy and asked if I had a guarantor. It's like the "why" doesn't matter, all that matters is the fact that it is low currently. Extremely dystopian.

[@symmetrylove]

We can have democracy or concentrated wealth in the hands of a few in America, but we can`t have both.

[@52flyingbicycles]

People are starting to wise up to that, which is why capitalists are becoming more open about saying democracy is bad. They always believed it, they just never said it. Scary times

[@Jcewazhere]

Credit score: How obedient you are to what the corporatocracy want you to do. Social score: How obedient you are to what the Chinese state wants you to do. Both are authoritarian tripe.

[@MaroonSandPod]

Credit scores are absolutely a scam. After I paid off my student loans my credit score went DOWN with no explanation other than the closure of an account. So either paying interest, even if just a little bit, for the rest of my life or let my credit score take a hit upon a massive accomplishment. That is completely bullcrap. They should let you set the score to whatever you want if you pay off your student loans.

[@BTrain-is8ch]

You paid off your loan and your credit score dropped by what is likely a meaningless number of points. Who cares? Do you know the difference between a 715 credit score and a 745? Mostly nothing. No one is declining the 715 or giving them bad rates compared to the 745. You guys are concerned about variance that doesn't matter.

[@ShepardCZ]

The only things that don't make sense about credit score are the fact that rents don't count and that living without loans is actually detrimental when you want to take a morthage for example. Although most of the time, you can just use a credit card and pay back at the end of the month without any interest.

[@jacobemerick6274]

Just put more down towards the mortgage when you take it out. More down means you’ll less likely be turned down, getting underwritten for a loan is 100% possible without a score

[@ShepardCZ]

@@jacobemerick6274 You may find that problematic, if you have to pay rent, which doesnt count to the "proof" you are able to pay your debts.

[@ViraL_FootprinT.ex.e]

Such a scam to create a permanent debt culture. I couldn't get my name on the lease to our first apartment because I had no credit history. Something I've tried to avoid because I was always warned about how predatory the credit industry was. My wife (gf then) *could* even though she had bad credit at the time 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@simonjaz1279]

Because despite what propaganda like this tells ylu...its not a scam and is good...

[@Dzanarika1]

It is not good, i****. They just want every to be in debt endlessly so you can work yourself to death. However, we should be thankful to death enormously as that is our way to escape this mysery on earth.

[@ChristopherElwell]

I love how much [pause] EXPRESSION is put into the caption stylization. I suspect the original script was copied over, with that notation meant to aid the presenter.

[@TheGravelInstitute]

yes! in the future we might remove that haha

[@patricks2645]

Fantastic, I found out credit scores were made in 1989 a little while back and got so mad about it and this explains exactly why its so infuriating

[@douchopotamus3755]

'Just have money, and you can do anything' is the message from credit scores

[@zlpatriot11]

Do a piece on the Military Industrial Complex.

[@raam1666]

I will NEVER take out a loan.

[@buttermoth5861]

I got an experian ad for this video. Disgusting.

[@kevintewey1157]

irony or REVENGE? Same here

[@KillTheFuture42]

The concept of a credit card alone is so strange to me. You are seduced to spend money you don´t own and pay more back than you borrowed, while giving a company information about your habbits and routines. That feels so fucked up. And all that to give you the illusion, that the system isn´t screwing you.

[@Dzanarika1]

Exactly.

[@johnjoesafatso]

It's real ironic to me that americans shit on the chinese social credit when this has been happening for decades.

[@alexandertownsend3291]

What's your point? Both systems are problematic.

[@Megacooltommydee]

@@alexandertownsend3291 That's the point. They're saying that Americans tend to criticize other countries' flaws (mostly due to propaganda) while failing to recognize their own flaws. This is what happens when you live in a nation that's so propagandized that a good portion of its citizens actually (falsely) believe they're immune to it.

[@satori-in-life]

There's nothing more American than hypocrisy.

[@alexandertownsend3291]

@@satori-in-life As an American I hate to admit this, but you're right.

[@johnnynitetrain32379]

I’m 43 and never have taken out a loan for anything (college paid for by my GI Bill), never have had a single credit card, nor have I ever bought a brand new car. Only have had utilities, phones, cable, memberships etc in my name. Have always paid my bills and rent on time. No outstanding debts…and my credit score is way below average. I don’t know how I’ll ever be able to buy a house and I did everything right. Going to sleep every night with zero debt isn’t bad though.

[@simonjaz1279]

U didn't get a credit card and thts ur problem. Also, there are dozens of programs out there to take out a loan to make a down payment. The military literally has a fantastic program for vets with loans...

[@Ultimime]

I get an analysis of the inherent discrimination and predatory nature of credit scores over here and some poor simpleton gets a "slavery was actually a good thing/didn't exist/wasn't racist" from the pragernator. I don't usually go hard for yay team but yeah I'm glad I'm on this team, this team is awesome.

[@rolandvirag8522]

This channel is the first channel I’ve ever seen that I seriously consider contributing to.

[@hwill12345]

Absolutely critical to remember that these systems of social control were a choice, just not our choice.

[@Pizza_Rat]

strange how people that complain about the chinese social credit score never complain about the US credit score (they both suck)

[@ngirchoskarngirchoskar8218]

How the credit score is NOT a scam. In a true constitutional republic, where buisnesses moraly uphold its peoples wellness. A credit system, allows individuals the financial safety net, only the wealthy can offer their heirs. It allows the average person financial backing (voucher), that could only previously exist if you were born into wealth. If it feels like a scam its likely because of institutions built on racketeering not community.

[@d.j.branham4314]

Starbucks unionized. Let's go

[@circle11111]

💯💯

[@Aka.Aka.]

We are all slaves, just with different masters. Social Credit Score? Monetary Credit Score? Sticks. The carrots are also pretty similar, wherein in this system you can buy products to sate your desires if you follow the system.

[@sonicsmemehouse3387]

Credit score's are SUS AMO-

[@gabrielj1644]

The animation is phenomenal in this one!

[@GeneSargentArt]

Always thought credit scores seemed like the financial skinner box

[@ohwow9870]

Not only are these videos actually founded on research and, you know, facts, but they’re also really visually interesting and don’t look like dogshit like a certain right wing propaganda Channel…