Why Crossoverless Single-Driver Speakers Are (Mostly) Crap! (Ep:84)

[@karl-heinzfink5930]

Life is a compromise, and speakers are no exception.
Crossovers are adding phase problems to a speaker. Whatever you do, a crossover will do that in the crossover area. Even first-order crossovers, which could be better in theory, don’t help because you have to look at the combination of the acoustic behaviour of the driver in the cabinet plus the electrical filter. So, fewer ways mean better phase response. However, it is impossible to make a driver that handles the whole spectrum, and even so, if we could find one, we would have to deal with the effect of the cabinet dimensions. And that needs some eq filtering. So a minimum of 2 drivers is a fine compromise. 
In the old days (before Klippel), drivers often showed changes in inductance over excursion, modulating the connected crossover plus generating IM and harmonic distortion (I worked hard to make a crossover-less speaker when I started with EPOS, but found it did not work well). With this sort of driver, a simple crossover would be beneficial. However, with well-compensated magnet systems that are standard nowadays, the crossover does not hurt. We also have nice tools to design the crossover - no more boxes of components and soldering iron for a good result (OK, after simulation, we need it again). So we always have to find a compromise. One of my teachers was Ted Jordan, and his full-range drivers could sound very nice. I did some work with BMR drivers that could sound nice as well. But yes, all had some problems, like insufficient energy in the top area or no deep or full bass. So I do 2 and 3-way today and live with the fact that a crossover adds some group delay distortion but gives us other benefits. It’s a compromise.

[@IanKnight40]

@@karl-heinzfink5930, Nice to see you mentioned Ted Jordan. I was very good friends with John Wykes ( sadly he passed away 18 months ago ) one of Ted's colleagues and friends who worked on Ted's original full range driver. Years ago John owned one of the original dies for the casting of the titanium driver. I've heard many a story regarding the development of that driver, no pc's those days!.

[@karl-heinzfink5930]

@@IanKnight40 , Ted was a very nice guy, and I learned a lot from him. Even today, when I work on new cone profiles, I use the rules he taught me.

[@trevorbartram5473]

Thanks for designing the Q-Acoustics 3050. Based on Martin Colloms review, I purchased a pair last winter & couldn't be happier. I'm unsure if you designed the many follow up more expensive models but it's gratifying to see the concept has legs!

[@dougschneider8243]

Thanks for the excellent, informative response.

[@sonusancti]

Not the full 20-20k perhaps but say 80-14k is definitely common. Many brands have been making single drivers for decades and they would've shut down if they sound crap as you say. Theoretically, it is an excellent idea. Think of your tiny eardrum, isn't it perfectly full range?

[@rvaillant]

Having built single driver speakers using Fostex 4” drivers I can say they do have some virtues. 1. Is imaging. Better than most speakers. 2. The sense of a live performance. Cons. 1. The baffle step loss and resulting 6 db loss of lower frequencies below aprox. 700 hz. I fixed it with digital e.q. 2. No low bass. Fixed with subwoofers. 3. Although not readily apparent, grainy highs and lack of high frequency speed. There is no fix unless you crossover to a tweeter and the lower the frequency you can do it and work properly the better. Bottom line: A well designed multi way speaker will always outperform a single driver design in most areas. We should skate some time Doug, ha.

[@fonkenful]

Take a look at some of the Mark Fenlon designed drivers - certainly good enough for Harley Lovegrove to achieve decent results and reviews with his Pearl Acoustics Sibelius. I’ve personally “daily driving” a complete 7.2.4 Atmos system based on mostly on Alpair drivers for well over 6 years. Frankly, I’ve found them to be well suited a modest HT rig with the substantial bass management and PEQ available, when run at comfortable levels well below “reference”. But as with all things audio, we each have our own set of expectations, biases, levels of tolerance for “imperfections”, and budgetary limitations. To quote another YT personality, “the only person who needs to like the sound of your system is, you”

[@stevedeharde2712]

Your criticism of audiophiles wanting simplicity is amusing. I say this because your explanation of the limitations of single drivers and benefits of multi-driver speakers was way too simplistic. There are many ways to skin a cat, and they all have compromises. Generalizing that mostly all single driver speakers are crap is exactly the opposite of what you should be doing. Having an open mind and rewarding good sound no matter the source is the proper role of a reviewer. There are plenty of single drivers that will play with great linearity and low distortion from 100hz to beyond 20khz. Relieving them of bass with an active crossover and subwoofers, and letting them play from a single point source can provide better results than multi-driver designs. Better dynamics, better imaging and soundstage, and more natural sound can be achieved. Crossovers cause phase issues and other problems too numerous to discuss here in depth. I have designed, built, listened, and sold every type of speaker. They all have limitations and compromises.

[@fonkenful]

@@stevedeharde2712 Steve, I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve been around long enough to arrive at the theorem that “audiophiles” (yes intentional air quotes) don’t know what they want until some published expert tells them. As a generalization, too many of “us” have long given up on trusting our own ears and rationalization and thirst for the guidance and validation of self appointed gatekeepers.

[@meowhsu]

I like my Omega speaker with my deceare setup. It has a more emotion/liviness to the setup and I feel more connected. It might not be good for all kinds of music but I don't think it's easy to find a speaker that's good for all types of music regardless of the design

[@Phloored]

My solution is to get all the filtering done before the amplifiers with active crossovers. I bi-ampa two way. A stack of two heil amt in free space (mounted on a pole) for each side with wave guides will play down to 500htz. Then a 9.5 inch mid bass in a 170 litter transmission line cab will easily pick up from 500htz down to the teens. So bi or tri amping with electronic crossovers gives that direct injection. It's a really really great way to listen.

[@MaartenVisser2920]

Maybe you should consider that a single driver speaker needs a completely different design of the enclosure to sound good. I designed a speaker that sounds (and measures!) extremely good with a single driver. It just needs some thinking in stead of calling something crap, and saying that someone who tries to explain something is talking BS. And yes, I also used to build multidriver speakers.

[@dougschneider8243]

Go on and explain because I have yet to see any single-driver speaker that overcomes all the issues. I'm all ears.

[@MaartenVisser2920]

@@dougschneider8243 A speaker that overcomes all issues doesn't exist. I won't give my design away because I will build and sell these speakers. But I can tell you there's no damping material in it, and they're rather tall. I'll be happy to send you a pair to test them as soon as I start the production.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@MaartenVisser2920 So the "secret" speaker that solves these problems. OK....

[@MaartenVisser2920]

@@dougschneider8243 A speaker that does a good job with a single driver.

[@IanKnight40]

@@MaartenVisser2920 Cabinet design will not cure driver breakup , colouration and inherent distortions from the driver.

[@gaborozorai3714]

All design concepts are compromises. Single driver speakers just choose different ones. Those that are well-executed have strengths that are very difficult for multi-driver ones to achieve. Multi-driver speakers try very hard to behave like a single point source with no crossover or phase issues. Singles don't need to try, they just ARE like that. Furthermore a single driver speaker may be simple in terms of components but the design of the driver is anything but. There often is - especially with larger drivers - a deliberately designed flexibility in the cone or between the center, directly attached to the voice coil (whizzer cone or dustcap/dome) and the outer parts of the diaphragm. A mechanical crossover filter essentially. Anyway, my references being live acoustic music and other (multi-driver) speakers, if I hear good full-ranges to be very good indeed, in many ways, I just don't need anyone telling me that they're crap. It's just childish.

[@Dave-vu3cu]

Coaxials are a far, far better solution for creating a point source. Kef, Tad, Mofi etc. I think that single full range drivers are crap in comparison.

[@gaborozorai3714]

@@Dave-vu3cu Compare “crap” to “have a balance of strengths and weaknesses that may be less acceptable to many users”. “Crap” is categorical, masquerading as objective.

[@Dave-vu3cu]

@@gaborozorai3714 A coaxial is a better set of compromises than a full range, making more effective trade-offs. A full range is crap in comparison because of that.

[@thecommish362]

Having worked for and with some brilliant and creative loudspeaker designers, I absolutely agree. Most of us want simpler to be better, but sometimes it just does not turn out that way.

[@dougschneider8243]

Isn't that the truth!

[@solomonstewart1025]

As one gets older one loses some high frequency capability so some of us are more tolerant of the pros of single drivers.

[@dougschneider8243]

I'm not sure that's the best reason for them to exist.

[@audio_acoustic_engineering]

Cube audio are very good single driver speakers, and Songer Audio. I’d love to hear the Pearl Acoustic Sibelius, HiFi Cave gave them a rave review. There are many poor and meh single driver speaker, there are fewer great ones.

[@Ivy13276]

He probably hasn't heard Cube Audio Nanuphar

[@paulmorris1225]

I use a 2 watt SET amp and single 6.5" driver speakers (albeit with a sub) because I LIKE the sound. I'm not a recording engineer, I'm not interested in accuracy (to what anyway?). I just want it to sound "nice" and don't give a damn about distortion. Each to their own and all that.

[@dougschneider8243]

Indeed.

[@eldloppa2]

This will ruffle some feathers, I think.

[@soundstagenetwork]

Perhaps. But the truth can hurt sometimes.

[@dougschneider8243]

I'm okay with that!

[@tyeadel]

Going from 30 Hz to 20 kHz with a reasonably flat response is a big ask. The closest I can recall was the Goodmans axiom 301 in a 250 L (about 8 cu ft) ported box. Now the best solution is probably bi (tri) amping. The sound source in your video with vinyl and moving magnet is highly suspect though.

[@dougschneider8243]

HUGE ask.

[@SonicFlare]

This reveals the corner that "high-end" audio has painted itself into over the past 40-50 years. Facts matter little, measurements matter little and it's all a grand old "subjective" family claiming to have objective authority to defend their positions. Except of course when it all starts to fall apart and you actually start revealing truth and the crowd then predictably goes wild with claims that measurements don't equal sound quality.

[@sbonamo]

A bit of over generalization.

[@dougschneider8243]

There's some of that.

[@johnhess351]

You are right, for a powerful audio system, you need multiple driver speakers with some kind of crossover, but a Fostex or Lowther and some others with a generic subwoofer does extremely well in moderate listening, but not so great at high power with saturated source material. The problems you described with single driver systems are only present at high power levels. If you go to yet higher power levels, even multiple drivers do not work as well. Everything is relative.

[@dougschneider8243]

As soon as you mix in subwoofer, it's not a single-driver speaker anymore.

[@Teachering]

If I am not mistaken, several of the Totem high end loudspeakers are without a crossover and yet I have heard that they are very good. This is an interesting discussion.

[@eldloppa2]

@@Teachering Their torrent series of drivers (and maybe more) run without a filter. But that's the midbass driver, which by its design has sufficient inherent low pass behavior since a voice coil is nothing more than an inductor. However, to the best of my knowledge, they do not have any full range drivers. Only the midbass is crossoverless, and then there's a tweeter which does have a high pass filter on it. Which aligns with the arguments made in the video! Totem don't try to make a single full range driver because they know that that driver would have severe drawbacks in the higher frequencies - so they leverage a dedicated driver for that instead which is special made for the purpose.

[@Teachering]

@@eldloppa2 Thank you for that information, eldloppa2. As you can tell, I am a newbie when it comes to this type of discussion; but I'm learning.

[@connorduke4619]

Fully agree. To me, most Dynaudio standmount speakers display a mastery of engineering compromise across all of the engineering parameters I am aware of.

[@ColocasiaCorm]

so what you're saying is Dynaudio standmount speakers are completely compromised

[@uncola6028]

I tend to think things that are EASY to measure, over time became believed to be more important to performance because they are easy to market. The simpler things like single driver crossoverless design have benefits that are harder to measure, time alignment and other stuff

[@dougschneider8243]

You can measure all those things in "crossovered" and crossoverless" designs. It's not magic.

[@williammay8413]

I have the paradigm 40 B bookshelf speakers , Doug how do they stand out from the rest as a good speaker?

[@soundstagenetwork]

The Founder 40B is excellent

[@ColocasiaCorm]

as a single-driver fan, these flaws and shortcomings were unbeknownst to me thank you Doug for exposing the truth! i will convert to a multi-driver box fan now

[@dougschneider8243]

I detect the sarcasm. It's fine to be a single-driver fan, but it does not negate the fact that it doesn't really work that well.

[@ishkabibbledib2729]

​@dougschneider8243 Correct Doug. I would never have single drivers in my home. No way they can do what my Paradigm Personas can.

[@ColocasiaCorm]

@@ishkabibbledib2729 correct ishka

[@brentbutterworth5480]

If a driver is big enough to reproduce bass, it's too big to properly disperse treble.

[@dougschneider8243]

Among many other issues, definitely.

[@ColocasiaCorm]

So Doug when’s the cube nenuphar review coming out?

[@dougschneider8243]

Don't worry, it's OK to like single-driver speakers. Just there's a reason companies create multi-driver ones.

[@ColocasiaCorm]

@@dougschneider8243 oh thank goodness. I was worried. Glad to have your approval Doug

[@jimmatheos9069]

If this is even remotely true, why are the top single drivers companies still in business with many of them not even able to keep up with production demands? Many of these single driver companies are out of stock or are backed up in orders. This clearly shows that audiophiles want single driver speakers and will wait long periods to get them rather than buying boring multi driver speakers.

[@dougschneider8243]

First, how do we know these companies are out of stock because of backorders? Many high-end companies are so tiny that they're out of stock because they can't even afford parts. However, to your other point -- many hi-fi companies are still in business that make lousy products. You can find them in other product categories, too. And the reason they can stay in business is that they're tiny -- and perhaps have owners that have other jobs. So it's not a good argument.

[@markovlasic1978]

single driver speakers , paper cone with ultra thin copper foil in transmission line boxes at 1 or 2 ohms are the future of sound standard. and those goes lower under 20hz and way above 20k hz. the sound is more then amazing with carefully made germanium amp. sound is very fast 1watt\7 meters. this is not BS.those hand made speakers exists and goes above 120 db of sensitivity.

[@soundstagenetwork]

Where exactly?

[@markovlasic1978]

@@soundstagenetwork It is patented in Serbia over 30 years ago.also patented voice coil for mics. amazing hifi sound

[@markovlasic1978]

everything that you said about single driver patents are more or less wrong. the most advanced method for great nature hifi sound is low ohm regime and unconventional voice coil patents with ultra thin foil, not wires. that stuff is a game changer.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@markovlasic1978 Really now... and with what speaker is this happening? BTW, have you looked at the distortion and also stability issues of amplifiers at 1 ohm?

[@markovlasic1978]

@@dougschneider8243 read carefully what i wrote.

[@mcbowler]

I had good results with DSP correcting single driver

[@dougschneider8243]

DSP can correct for frequency response, but it can't correct for dispersion. That is what it is based on things like driver size(s), cabinet shape, etc.

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

I’ve a 8” tengband full range driver it’s very hard to get it sounding Smooth

[@soundstagenetwork]

We are not surprised

[@emmet7208]

Even more care needs to be taken when designing a point source driver, only to still accept that it will have flaws. Seeing as there are so many more two and three way designs available in the market (massive understatement!) tells us what most people prefer and are willing to shell out money for!

[@waynes4491]

Check out the Pearl Acoutics "Sibelius"

[@1moderntalking1]

Coherence for me is of prime importance. No tweeter and woofer combo comes close to single driver coherency.

[@dougschneider8243]

Coherence but missing a good chunk of the audioband, highs and lows????

[@1moderntalking1]

@@dougschneider8243 our ears are midrange vacuums but that is not to say we can’t hear highs and lows. We need a speaker that can do all this well. Co-axial speakers try but fail because there is a big speed difference between tweeter and the woofer that surrounds it.

[@trevorbartram5473]

What the single driver fad has brought is continued advances in driver design (see the work done by Mark Fenlon in the last 20 years) that would otherwise not have occurred. I believe Mark would admit his drivers work best in the 100Hz to 10KHz range in small box designs. That is still an incredible achievement. Another achievement is the work by Dali in reducing eddy current distortion due to steel in traditional drivers. When it comes to crossovers, part quality is an issue, manufacturers have traditionally used the cheapest parts without regard to sound quality. When all manufacturers are doing it & it's not openly discussed, it's difficult for reviewers to differentiate between designs!

[@gtrguyinaz]

Totally agree…

[@soundstagenetwork]

Glad to hear!

[@dicmccoy]

You shouldn't be shitting on single driver/no crossover designs. There are many multi-driver designs that are complete dog shit too. In everything audio, there has to be compromise. You can't have it all unfortunately. So, choose your poison. Don't shit on one design philosophy because you don't believe in it. No matter which you go with a design, there's always, always, and let me say that one more time, always compromise. One is not better than the other as there's always compromise.

[@CarlVanDoren61]

Yes, Ken Songer S1 open field coil is amazing 😊

[@hificave]

Agreed. No such thing as the best do-it-all. Some genres need multi way drivers that each driver can focus on a specific range and allow it to perform its best and this provide a better experience for genres that require this. (Heavy rock, metal, large complex orchestras). But a full range/no crossover done properly, for acoustic, jazz, blues and more simple genres, the realism and presence in room, is spectacular and creates an emotional experience. There’s way more to this conversation. Cheers!

[@brucermarino]

Are you sure at University on things like this in my spare time. Although I agree, there's a much better case to be made for this. When also explain why not just give some objective assessments alluding to objectivity. Including things like mass, dispersion, intermodulation distortion, etc. would be useful. Happy to help, my friend.....

[@BlumensteinAudio]

The answer here is better compromises. You should listen to the Triton, by Blumenstein Audio. it’s an 8” classic Pioneer wide bander with a neodymium supertweeter crossed above 10000hz.

[@dougschneider8243]

That's not a single-driver speaker then!

[@BlumensteinAudio]

@@dougschneider8243Who’s keeping score? Why quibble over semantics when you could be sitting back and just enjoying the music from whatever can get the job done? For the record, I also built drivers at Feastrex and their ultimate ~$65000 / pr. D9e Type III field coils could definitely be considered “Single drivers.”. I personally might still use my 24” subs with them because I don’t waste time trying to be totally purist. (just mostly purist). hence, I’m a wide bander guy.

[@BlumensteinAudio]

@@dougschneider8243 boy you must be really fun at parties! if you like Cube Audio, you’d love Feastrex! some are purists, personally, I am not purist - I’m a wide bander guy. please don’t delete my comment this time ;)

[@BlumensteinAudio]

@@dougschneider8243 true single driver speakers are high concept, can cost upwards of $80000/pr. for just the drivers in the case of Voxativ or Feastrex. Which is why most of the cheap “single drivers” are missing something. I think alot of the “controversy” between traditional two way and single driver also boils down to what people are used to. confirmation bias.

[@saint6563]

Anyone: Heard single drivers w/300B amps are the best. Guessing because [not well designed] 300B amps are infamous for lacking top & bottom end.

[@philmu1983]

have anyone check out Wing Acoustics ? ?!

[@johnshaw359]

Well said.

[@dougschneider8243]

Thanks!

[@IanKnight40]

You are spot on Doug. As a professional loudspeaker engineer I agree with you totally. There is so much crap out there misleading people.

[@dougschneider8243]

Great to hear.

[@hifiman4562]

I've always said a single driver should not be tasked with playing below 50hz. Or playing above it's beaming point. I think a good place to start is with a 3 way setup, and sub.

[@ishkabibbledib2729]

❤

[@howardbateman1195]

you should listen to the Audience 1+1 speaker.

[@Audfile]

OK, what about the next level down from that? Totem Metal, a crossover-less driver and a tweeter with just a cap on it? Supposedly these are epic.

[@soundstagenetwork]

As far as we know, Totem does put at least one element on the tweeter, so that's a crossover. Also, their torrent driver is reportedly designed to have specific rolloff characteristics. So it's been designed almost as if there was a crossover in place. That's usually not the case.

[@Audfile]

@@soundstagenetwork kinda crap to epic with addition of one capacitor and a tweeter.

[@matoot]

Blumenstien Audio makes great single driver speakers.

[@JakePurches-Base2music]

Single drivers only works properly in headphones. Lowthers are so crap that I refused to do a demo of my recordings on one for fear that the audience would consider my work crap too.

[@fonkenful]

All generalizations are dangerous, including these made here. Lowther’s are only one of numerous brand names associated with wideband, “full-range” single drivers /systems over the past 100 years. While not an industry expert or YT personality, I am a boomer of a certain age who’s listened to a extensive number of speakers over the past 60years, and voted with my wallet and sweat equity in building more than a few scores of designs. FWIW, the half dozen or so most underwhelming / horrific listening experiences I’ve had were with legendary brand names / models (JBL Paragon, EV Patrician, Bose 901😮, Klipsch and several very large scale front loaded horn multiways, including, yes Lowthers. OTOH, transducer makers such as Jordan, Mark Audio, and even Fostex have had decent results in both the DIY and commercial market with designs based on their drivers. All loudspeaker system are compromises, and success is not based on trying to defy the laws of physics as some manufacturers of esoteric audiophile ephemera espouse, but on understanding them and carefully crafting designs within those constraints - cost certainly among them- to fit a wide variety of use cases.

[@odei59]

Single driver speakers good or bad depends on your box tuning and of course your own ears and your self confidence too.Here is sound from Lowther PM2A: :kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX-2pZecbZdqmbs&si=aabHbIDcmewjjPLt.It is sound from single driver speakers, no sub no treble or super treble either.

[@JKadison]

What about Sibelius loudspeakers? They certainly aren’t crap.

[@dougschneider8243]

Note that the title has the word "mostly" in it. Maybe they don't fall under the "crap" category. But most do.

[@johnshaw359]

They may be theoretically better, but eventually they'll become crap, as he said, and this issue has been known for decades.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@johnshaw359 Are you sure they'd be "theoretically better"?

[@johnshaw359]

​@@dougschneider8243 On reflection, No, I was thinking point-source-wise.

[@firebladeclements]

Right on Doug! Hope you have the time and a big garage for all the single drivers coming your way, lol. Like that XTC tune "It's just a complicated game" yyayyame Let the savagery begin, can't wait!

[@peterandersen4040]

Not all people can hear 20.000 hz

[@dougschneider8243]

In fact, most people can't. But most single-driver speakers have high-frequency issues much lower than 20kHz.

[@sbonamo]

Very true.

[@AmazonasBiotop]

Yes, you have many valid points. A passive crossover is so bad of an idea and has only one big advantage that has nothing to do with sound quality. Convinience. It is so dumb to go trugh the power amp section were we drive up the voltage and current. Just to diliver that not to the driver .. It goes first to the passive crossover and then to the drivers. So dumb that now you need very pricy and big components (inductors, resistors and capacitors). The smart and inconvient way that results in better end tesults is active crossovers. And in the 2v domain the parts is so much smaller and it is more cost effective to get high end parts. Plus higher order filters is easier to use plus the power amp now act directly on the driver, just as on a single driver that dont have any crossover. 😅 In other words we need to put the effort where it counts.🎉 But unfortanaly cinvinence trumps all.😢

[@dougschneider8243]

I'm not sure if "convenience" is the right word. I think it's familiarity -- audiophiles are familiar with passive crossovers and, inherently, resistant to change.

[@AmazonasBiotop]

@@dougschneider8243 With a passive crossover mounted in a speaker that 99% of all speakers has. Then it is just to connect it to any amplifier and you are done. Easy and convinent. 💖 If you have a 3 way and need to get 3 stereo amplifiers or 6 separate amplifiers. 6 speaker cables. Some crossover box for devide frequency range for each driver. And 6 signal cables. For us that want everything as separated.🤔 Yes then there is active speakers that have built in amplifiers and just need the low level signal in.. ..but that will not by far satisfy the audiophile. 🥰

[@dougschneider8243]

@@AmazonasBiotop That's fair -- and yes, a single amp is more convenient. However, if you look at many audiophile systems, they're far from convenient with all their tweaks. I think the biggest issue is resistance to change.

[@stevedeharde2712]

I just went through the last few years on the Soundstage websites. I could not find one review of a single driver speaker. I may be missing something. Please direct us to one if I am missing something. And please do not delete my comment.

[@dougschneider8243]

Obviously, this whole thing triggered you. It appears you deleted an entire thread in this discussion where it was disclosed that you appear in House of Stereo videos -- and therefore appear to have an agenda. What's next, are you going to come in under an alias? As for single-driver speakers, if you knew how to use Google, you'd find Maxxhorn, Atelier, and others...

[@stevedeharde2712]

@dougschneider8243 Maxxhorn: September 2008 on Soundsatge. Really? Rave review and not by you. Lol I don't see any others. Perhaps Google isn't working correctly? As far as deleting my thread. You mean after you deleted four or five of my points you didn't like? And again, I do not work for House of Stereo. Call Joe and ask him. We will see how long this comment lasts. Hopefully, you believe in free speech and transparency.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@stevedeharde2712 The comment will stay there, I don't care. As I said, I'm not triggered by controversy the way you seem to be. Don't forget, you deleted a dozen or so posts that talked about the House of Stereo connection. As for the House of Stereo connection, people can Google House of Stereo and Steve DeHarde for themselves and decide. Speaking of deciding, circling back to sentence 2, I'm not triggered by these sorts of things. We let our writers write these articles freely. In fact, after that review was published, my editor-at-the-time and I purposely listened to a pair at a show and couldn't figure out what he liked about them. I believe he even bought them. But the bass was poor, the highs were lousy, and even the midrange was colored. Go figure...

[@stevedeharde2712]

@dougschneider8243 My point is. What have you reviewed recently? Also, this is where a lot of designers are going because of the cost and complexity of getting multiple drivers to play coherently without having your head in a vise and half the energy from the amp turned to heat. I get it. You don't like them! Joe of House of Stereo is my friend only. That is my only affiliation other than being an audiophile. He doesn't even carry single driver speakers. So, there is no agenda. I deleted the thread after you deleted some of my comments about perhaps you having an agenda with your advertisers. Anyway, there is room for both of our opinions to be valid. So, just stop. Again, a video discussing all this from both sides would be interesting and informative.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@stevedeharde2712 What have I reviewed lately!?!?!? I've been reviewing from 1995 to today, nonstop. As for single-driver speakers, I heard lots at shows and, other than the Cube Audio speakers, which I mentioned, I have no inkling to review any of the others. They've all been pretty bad. As for stopping, I reply to posts. This is the channel my videos appear on. Maybe you should stop?

[@stevedeharde2712]

Great review below from Soundstage in 2008 (not by Doug) explaining the benefits of a full-range driver loudspeaker!

[@middleearthltd]

How can a KZbin video hurt, when, as a general matter, (especially) when no one watches it Also, if you like something having someone not like the same thing should not matter at all I don’t care what people like or dislike or how they spend their time and treasure This is the most simplistic video I have seen on this subject so there is that The Pearl Acoustics Sibelius SG speakers are too spendy for me at $6k but I would really like to check them out The Ogy from Closer Acoustics are another speaker that I would love to try or even buy at $2k ish but I like to build speakers I don’t have any single driver speakers yet but I will build one/a few and decide for myself

[@dougschneider8243]

"This is the most simplistic video I have seen on this subject so there is that." I deliberately kept it simple because the case FOR single-driver speakers can be destroyed quite simply and easily. I could give more information as to why, but why do it? It can't work well in a true hi-fi sense. As for your reply, what you've said to counter that is -- absolutely nothing.

[@Ivy13276]

CUBE AUDIO NENUPHAR V2

[@Ivy13276]

If you say so😂

[@dougschneider8243]

I do.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

ooh, SPICY! but somebody had to say it. we already knew it but somebody had to say it

[@Love-One-Another]

Scientific data of a frequency range means nothing. If you like how something sounds, then listen to it. Be it any audio format or speaker design. Audiophiles spend too much time on the science than actually enjoying the audio/music. I know, I use to do the same. Now I just enjoy my music.

[@dougschneider8243]

"Scientific data of a frequency range means nothing." What proof do you have to say that? After all, all the good data we have about how something sounds has been based a lot on frequecy-response data. It's also what most if not all the great speaker designers use. So if you're to be believed, they're all wrong?

[@Love-One-Another]

@@dougschneider8243 Just because some people like vinyl and some CD's and as for speakers, everyone has a personal taste. Whether it be bassy or more accurate. Many factors that don't always have a flat frequency response or even the full audio spectrum. To each their own as they say. But that's why I said that. Each person has their own personal taste and we don't all hear the same thing depending on our age and ears.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@Love-One-Another I think you might be wise to dive into the literature a little more, including the extensive listening tests done by Floyd Toole that showed that once biases are removed -- i.e., listening blindly -- results tend to converge quite a bit more compared to when they're not. You've also strayed from answering my question about proof about the statement "Scientific data of a frequency range means nothing." In short, it does.

[@Love-One-Another]

@@dougschneider8243 I think you are misunderstanding me. Data means nothing to the listener because each person has their own taste in sound. Some like it bassy, some crank up the treble, some like vinyl or CD. All factors that don't always have the perfect frequency. So that is why I said, listen to what ever sounds best to your ears.

[@dougschneider8243]

@@Love-One-Another As I said above, you really need to do more research into this. Dr. Toole and Sean Olive have shown that we're not all that dissimilar once bias is removed from listening. That's not to say that everyone likes the same things insofar as sound good, but that it's not like the Wild West the way you make out it to be. Once again, the research is quite telling.