Why CS Is Dead | Prime Reacts

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[@diaL42]

people here thought it was about C sharp, my dumbass thought it was Counter Strike lol

[@kingnick6260]

Lmfao. CS 1.6 is still going strong… on random Polish servers 😂

[@User-lz2xu]

i mean its true that modern cs is dead

[@damasake]

" 'Overpopulation' Isn't that good for a game?"

[@EnderSpy29]

same

[@bot7845]

C hashtag

[@cosecseccot]

Prime made a minute long short, 10 mins video Truly a 10x developer

[@RobbenBanks153]

Shtahppp

[@ThatguyRuby]

gotta get the mid-roll ads

[@neildutoit5177]

Did I legit just hear that in order for me to get a job I have to get over the milf curve

[@blankvoid4137]

yesss, you heard correct

[@2BluntsLater]

Get on over some milf curves

[@pik910]

according to a documentary I watched you have to get under the milf curves to get the job

[@timjrgebn]

Yes, and he was kind enough to share the two curves he was talking about... he was very specific.

[@abhishek_k7]

yep, primeagen approves

[@dog4ik]

they really need to fix cheaters problem

[@Bellicosei]

I was gonna say, big homie prime does not understand how rampant the cheating is. It doesn't stop at the college level, I've busted people in interviews who are looking stuff up as I ask it, or who submitted "personal projects" for a technical interview that are direct copies of open source projects with the variables renamed... colleges do nothing to address that behavior, giving students the idea that it's okay to keep doing that into their professional lives

[@Howard-mr8xo]

Is it a cheater problem or are some just that good... besides the obvious ones

[@astijus98]

@@Howard-mr8xo There are people that are good, but currently the cheater problem in CS2 is bigger than its ever been, you can see proof of this just by viewing the global leaderboards. They dont start with 1, or 2, or 3... the start in the 10's, then quickly go to the 100ths. Meaning all those people that would have been there are banned due to cheats.

[@timjrgebn]

8:03 --> Very field dependent, or rather hype dependent. I have seen machine learning devs flat out lying about their ML model's performance. Ultra Analytics (ya, I'm calling you out) did this with one of their YOLO models. The original maintainer of the YOLO models even called them out in a GitHub issue. They were purposely not mentioning the DIFFERENT BATCH SIZES used in their benchmarks to make their model look better... They still contract $300+/hr to the btw, namely the DOD... the DOD!

[@Howard-mr8xo]

@@astijus98 Kinda sad to cheat at a video game 🤦‍♂

[@rrraewr]

07:15 there are A LOT of students cheating their way through the bachelors, getting their stuff done by someone else or cheating on tests, or getting carried. It's insane

[@Selsato]

Like there are actually people just using chatgpt. It's absurd

[@TheUMESH34]

Forget school , people are cheating on interviews from what I have heard.

[@clivethompson5016]

like he said in the video, they will just be useless so its not really an argument.

[@viis]

Yup, so many of my classmates in third-year courses are only passing because of Copilot and stuff

[@Dozer456123]

The only people they're hurting is themselves. They can't cheat their way into success at their job. They can't cheat themselves to senior engineer. That shit sticks out, and it's obvious when people are incompetent.

[@hacking4arabs]

The short answer to why CS is dead ( which is a bit misleading ) It's not, CS as a field is very much alive and continues to be crucial in driving technological innovation and solving complex problems.

[@fcnealvillangca7943]

i dont think it's misleading... it's a click bait

[@innocentsmith6091]

I don't think he cares about data structures, algorithms, cpu architecture, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure he's talking about majoring in "get a six figure FAANG job"

[@Dredge22]

He's probably just talking about being able to get an near-average paying job for his degree at all.

[@Digger-Nick]

It's "dead" because getting a degree is no longer a free ticket into a good job. Too many people are majoring in it now and companies no longer hire someone who is "willing to learn" when they have 1000s of applicants who don't need to be trained.

[@innocentsmith6091]

​@@Dredge22people flock to CS because of the lure of a fancy job. No one is making videos about how literature is DEAD because they can't get jobs with the literature degree they got because they enjoy literature.

[@AdamLeis]

🤣 the layers of awesome here… his pseudo-prediction about it being a meme, the really well-thought-out responses that surprisingly map to comp sci, and the slayed response Prime had with the Shyamalan-like plot twist at the end. All. Gold.

[@the_outlier1]

Also the chatter who suggested watching the full video first, and he argues with it (because it's a general complaint when he reacts to things), but this time it would have saved him.

[@AdamLeis]

@@the_outlier1 haha right? So good

[@doigt6590]

Even WITH a degree, good luck finding anything in this economy. I think people who have 5+ years of experience should shut up about this and listen. Every junior right now that is fresh out of college is in the same boat as all the community college guys and the code camp guys and the self taught guys. We're all in a huge ass pool of hyper competition and there is little opportunity to get that precious professional experience that recruiters are looking for. It's just unfair, they are not looking at our portfolios, they are not looking at our cvs. They see less than 5 years experience, they have a chuckle because they found someone with 5+ year experience then your cv with your letter and portfolio go through the virtual shredder that is the deleted mails box.

[@RatherBeCancelledThanHandled]

💯 . The previous generation of devs had life on easy street but don’t want to admit it .

[@AlexRodriguez-do9jx]

Facts. Before you were pretty much guaranteed a job with a bachelor's now it's like...ha! take a number... At least that has been the sentiment for me (b.s in cs, numerous certificates, and startup experience) and apparently I've been hearing of companies starting to outsource swe labor to india it's. The entry level tech market is a legit circus atm. Genuinely been considering going into a trade bc at least there you're guaranteed a job at the end of your apprentice...😅

[@mugennnnn]

​@@AlexRodriguez-do9jxgo for trades then

[@RiRi-ku6xz]

@@AlexRodriguez-do9jxtrade degrees gets you job?

[@AlexRodriguez-do9jx]

@@RiRi-ku6xz no but apprenticeships do. Very common in trades. You get PAID(most importantly) to learn on the job and shadow someone for a set amount of time (usually like 1-4) years depending on trade and you get promoted at the end.

[@cableshaft]

CS was so good back in the day I was playing it for six hours a day while I was getting my CS degree. I wasn't coding in CS back then though, it was mostly C++.

[@downey2294]

9/10 you missed CSS

[@elenakusevska6266]

I miss C++ so bad... I wish I could get an old-school developer job. (Not ironic.)

[@NostraDavid2]

Just in case somebody needs to hear it: SWE != CS Software engineering is building a program. Computer Science is figuring out the fundamental Math that supports SWE. How did you think SQL came to be? That shit is based on Relational Algebra and -Calculus from the 70s. Yes, the fundamentals are that old.

[@kuhluhOG]

Something some people may forget: Computer Science isn't programming. Programming is only part of it. Things like hardware design (of e.g. a CPU) is also part of Computer Science.

[@dominiktworek6455]

but programming is 95% of it :D

[@kuhluhOG]

@@dominiktworek6455 no, I wouldn't say that

[@werren894]

that is information technology

[@werren894]

or electrical engineering

[@werren894]

compsci is about hacking, is it dead? depend if you let it.

[@ivanjermakov]

What is your favorite CS: computer science, css, counter strike or C#?

[@tornoutlaw]

c*** sucking

[@finalformluigi]

The top-level domain

[@mrkostya008]

CS is my favorite

[@subarunatsuki1902]

@@mrkostya008 I'll agree with that

[@dwin9983]

@@mrkostya008 nah bro, CS is much better

[@drchamp1902]

CS is about datastructures, algorithms, compilers, networking, assembly registers etc. programming is just a way to express those ideas

[@Fanmade1b]

In Germany there are still a lot of jobs which require (computer science) degrees. It is becoming less frequent in the private sector, but if you want to work for the government, there are pretty hard rules in place which will limit how much you will be paid.

[@JacobBogers]

_In Germany there are still a lot of jobs which require (computer science) degrees._ A Mathematics degree or a Physics degree will get you the same coding job as well.

[@IC3P3]

_there are pretty hard rules in place which will limit how much you will be paid._ And what you get paid is most likely worse than the private sector without having a perfectly save job. The only one getting paid better than the private sector are the trainees. The only positive thing I can say about working for a German higher federal authority is that you don't have much pressure to perform if any. A project you could finish in 2 weeks, here take a 2 year contract.

[@JacobBogers]

@@IC3P3 That is every government, I have contracted for government projects that have been 20 years ongoing and never finished. Since the potential for moral hazard I recommend get really highly educated ppl for positions. Its already bad that they dont perform, we dont want them stupid aswell

[@eeePPP]

shhhh. dont tell them.

[@theforsakeen-9014]

@@JacobBogers "A Mathematics degree or a Physics degree will get you the same coding job as well."how does that even works? do these degrees teach programming as well?

[@hamm8934]

Agree with your points but ill add that there are plenty of people who get through a CS degree with rote memorization and forget 90% of class content after the semester. So many people barely get through discrete math, linear algebra, higher level algos and ds, etc. to the point where they might as well as not have taken the classes to begin with. Why take these classes if youre just going to forget all of the content and thought spaces? Of course, this isnt everyone but there are plenty that fall into this bucket. Theres also the trope of people getting a cs degree but self proclaiming that youtube taught them. Of course everyone is different, but im still not sold on the cs degree equating to a solid foundation.

[@Boxing_Gamer]

It is if you actually know that stuff..and you will know it but only after years of work and study. The degree doesn't automatically do it for you.

[@finalformluigi]

Unfortunately, not all people enter the CS program with enthusiasm. A lot of my peers seemed to just be there because their parents expect them to graduate college and CS jobs generally pay well. By the time I reached junior year, a lot of these students were filtered ou,t and I was mostly left with 3 main groups: people like me who genuinely have a curiosity for learning about what makes a computer tick, people who were already in the industry and wanted a pay bump, and people who should have been filtered out but are stuck by sunk cost fallacy. To your point about discrete math, that class definitely seemed like a "filter" class to me. A lot of the people that didn't have genuine interest did poorly in that class. Data structures was probably the nail in the coffin for a lot of people. Id say most people that made it through data structures went all the way. I knew a few people that changed majors during or after taking DS lol.

[@SuperficialNight]

As someone with unmedicated adhd it so true I can't remember a damn thing nevermind full courses I can't remember what I ate yesterday its a big issue for me I'm holding off on college until I can get medicated

[@DanteS-119]

i used pretty much everything man. even if indirectly.

[@dandogamer]

This was definitely me at uni and I think it's because that's the way I passed at school so the same habit continued. I must say that 90% of what I do now doesnt involve anything from uni. No proofs, networking, maths etc.

[@boratsagdiyev522]

Recently when I checked job sites for web developers, the job posts I see are for full stack and senior engineers. I don't see any junior front end jobs and they all require college degrees with 5+ years experience - non internships. I've been studying frontend for about 3 years now working my security officer job full-time. I only know html, css and javascript which I still struggling with. I'm always in a state of anxiety where I think about giving up everyday. I don't even know how to get to the next level from here.

[@Xaero324]

You're going to have to get used to being uncomfortable and learn full stack. Pure front end or pure backend is a dying breed since the inception of Ai. I started PHP, got into Node, and now doing Ruby with help of ChatGPT.

[@brettstoddard7947]

Hang in there 🐈

[@bmeister88]

Relatable

[@paraclinical]

Yes the market is very saturated since the covid layoffs, finding an entry level web development job is really hard nowadays, big tech is also laying off lots of people with lots of experience, and companies that are hiring would obviously rather hire people with experience than invest in someone new.

[@Gigasharik5]

u gonna make it

[@abdulwadoodzawity9523]

i thought it was C sharp lmao

[@youtubeenjoyer1743]

No union types = garbage programming language.

[@Alpharabius99]

No way c# is dying soon. But its gonna killa java for sure

[@colinstu]

whotf sees "CS" and thinks "C#" and not "Computer Science"?

[@abdulwadoodzawity9523]

@@Alpharabius99 that’s why i was confused

[@abdulwadoodzawity9523]

@@colinstu bruv some people type c# as in cs

[@user-qr4jf4tv2x]

the era of build your own business is your new frontier

[@georgehelyar]

The idea of computer science degrees is great but the reality is that they are too far removed from what you do day to day, taught (or books written by) people who have never worked in the software industry. They prepare you for doing a PhD in computer science, not for work. At least in the UK.

[@SheelByTorn]

look to me it's more of an advertisement issue

[@finalformluigi]

I think it comes down to your goals, but if you're truly interested in the field beyond just making money, I really think CS degrees provide a lot value by making it a lot easier to make better decisions faster. For example, discrete math was a bore, but drilling T/F logic makes it easy for me to read and transform conditionals on the fly. Working with proofs made me better at validating functionality and potental edge cases within my code just by reasoning about it in my head. Even if you don't retain every little bit about a class (trust me i purged most of diff eq immediately), having the concepts in your subconscious and just being aware of your domain can really save you brain clock cycles and research time developing solutions when you have the breadth of understanding that a bs in CS can provide.

[@finalformluigi]

Also, while I agree they don't really tell you how software dev jobs work, I'm sure I picked up those skills many times faster than someone who skipped the degree. There are also a lot of more jobs out there than just code monkey. Some people may want to be a cloud admin, a data scientist, or a QA engineer (God bless their souls). Some people may just shoot for management so they can pretend to work between meetings.

[@maxheim3802]

I mean in the end probably 50 % of topics that you learn in college are wasted/not relevant to your field you will work in. But for the case of not getting a degree and not being self taught you would need like 1-2 years to even understand all the involved topics just to do some productive work. No company is willing to pay someone for 1-2 years just so they *might* stay with the company. I dont think its a bad way to prepare for a profession and to be able to tell if someone is suitable for a job

[@mattymattffs]

Yeah, so that's what academia is... That's the majority of degrees. University often isn't for applied, it's for science. They want you to go get a master's or PhD, do research, things the university benefits from. For universities teaching is secondary or tertiary. That's why. Teaching students is the side hustle. You want something more hands on? Pick computer engineering or software engineering or whatever the uni offers instead. This is why I typically recommend people go to a technical college. It's much better than a boot camp but usually only two years be the 3-4 at uni.

[@mauricioprado6395]

Bad engineers build their own stuff. Good engineers compose their systems. Super engineers build their own stuff.

[@arcuscerebellumus8797]

Bad engineers build their own stuff (badly) or slap things together (also badly)... It's not about what you do, but how. In my experience bad can be distinguished from good by the depth or understanding more than anything.

[@JacobBogers]

@@arcuscerebellumus8797 The orks in warhammer, but their machines still work _Bad engineers build their own stuff (badly) or slap things together (also badly)..._

[@bruhmomentum2724]

Ngl this one makes little to no sense

[@kyojin1841]

​@@bruhmomentum2724he's trying to describe that iq bell curve meme where both high iq and low iq people end up doing the same thing and its usually people in the average iqs that tend to overthink and do overcomplicated things.

[@patiencebear]

@@JacobBogers If you believe hard enough, you'll get a 10x engineer. Also: If you wear purple clothes, they wont pull you into their meetings.

[@mfc1190]

Great points. One thing I’ve always related software engineering to is the physical engineering disciplines. If I said to any mechanical engineer, “I want to become a mechanical engineer in 1 year.” I’d get laughed at. That’s because each concept builds on the previous. You need foundations to understand more complicated principles. That’s why engineering degrees are generally 5 years and they are challenging. I’m not trying to gatekeep (maybe a little bit), I’m trying to stress that we should step away from the disillusionment of becoming a Software Engineer “fast”. It just ain’t gonna happen, and if it does it’s because you have foundations in place.

[@HobokerDev]

Facts != Gatekeeping

[@boratsagdiyev522]

I'm new to the field. What do u mean by physical engineering disciplines?

[@ConernicusRex]

@@boratsagdiyev522if you don’t understand that 3 word phrase you’re not going to be terribly successful.

[@mfc1190]

@@boratsagdiyev522 maybe “traditional” would’ve been a better word. Things like Civil Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Biomedical Engineering, etc. The thing where the engineer designs a tangible product that must pass design specifications and review, stress tests, etc. To some degree, I’m also saying production software should also have these qualities, and a large proportion of people trying to do this the fast way don’t give these things consideration.

[@boratsagdiyev522]

@@mfc1190 thanks for the explanation

[@user-el9xh1zh5n]

Yeah I learned my lesson my very first semester learning python. I used chatgpt too much and I didn’t learn anything. When it came for the second python class I was clueless and had to reteach myself everything the correct way. Lesson learned.

[@CodeConstellations]

Another plus for college is a learning plan. Once you get out of boot camp it can be difficult to find out exactly what you need to supplement your knowledge.

[@andrewdunbar828]

There was always a huge influx of people who were self taught. Most of my nerd friends who started working as programmers in the '90s were self taught.

[@yayinternets]

That's definitely me, but I'm a Software Engineer who builds products... year 26 of my career. IT is a totally different thing.

[@daniela9171]

for the guy who said, "a mentor is better than college". Put that mentorship on your resume and see what happens.

[@halfstep7487]

One thing to think about in terms of "Competitiveness' is that there are so many types of roles. Front end, Back end, Infra/Devops, QA, requirements. Even for people who are not good at being hard core developers there are other roles around engineering that are critical that those people may excel at.

[@vr10293]

I think the talk of cheating is about the job application process. Lying on resumes, cheating during interviews, etc.

[@crazyluigi6664]

In other words, the Catch 22 of job experience sometimes...

[@MrRafaellbc]

Have u guys watched the whole video? It's a joke video about Counter Strike.

[@murtajiz545]

@@MrRafaellbcdoesn’t take away from the other convo tho lol

[@vr10293]

In the case of India, higher gpa = better employment to some extent. In college, you get "placed" into the companies that have a tie up with the college, and most of them have some requirements (such as for a gpa out of 10, they require >7, or >7.5, or >8). Beyond that, many employers will look more favorably on a 9 than an 8, but thst is more minor, especially with big tech companies and banks.

[@steventolerhan5110]

I feel like software careers were previously on easy mode where you could graduate a degree and put your hands up for a software job and anyone would take you. Unlike many other technical and specialized careers where you are expected to be able to handle any which task with minimal training and have a high level of competency as an entry level. Now it is normalizing a bit. I have no fear for the future of software jobs. At the end of the day it is a job market like any other market, it is governed by the laws of supply and demand. However, in the grand scheme of things, the fundamentals of the software industry and IT industry in general are fantastic and on an exponential curve. Yes it has been impacted by the economy but the IT industry/software industry will continue to grow.

[@AngelloProduct]

I was an 86 credit transfer student and I had to declare my major and unfortunately had my application decline since it’s competitively, so I went for an alternative and just have a degree in general studies and minor in CS so I don’t have to do two extra years so it didn’t financially make sense. And mostly college is fairly a waste of time. You’re better self thought, get your certificate and work on your repository. Hands on Experience is essential and that’s what hires are looking for.

[@dra6o0n]

Programming is only one part of computer science, but not the entirety. It's not marketable for sure, but it is a foundation to narrow down into learning a niche. What will earn you more recognition is a portfolio of projects you make, than a degree or diploma, when it comes to computer software or hardware. Computer Science is more like art, a lot of people can do it but only those who put the most effort stands out. Taking college/university isn't effort to employers though.

[@re_detach]

The main problem is people chose a degree in software because they see dollar signs; you can't blame them because everyone is greedy / needs money at the end of the day. They may not even like writing code once they learn how to; but continue down that path because of the promise of a high salary off the get go. You could more easily land a six-figure job on an oil rig by studying petroleum engineering, but people are inherently physically lazy and chose the path of less resistance, hence the preference for comp sci / software engineering degrees.

[@TheReferrer72]

Oil Rig is dangerous work, where as in software you can do the work in your jim jams.

[@re_detach]

@@TheReferrer72exactly; yes more dangerous but job security / consistent demand for labor is high

[@aarholodian]

Tired of CS grads complaining. CS has the highest employment of graduates within the field of their degree, offering some of the most diverse career paths among all STEM fields, and people still moan. The job market is perhaps tougher than it was but you need to get a grip if you think that CS grads are somehow uniquely affected by this, or that the market is uniquely bad in general. Besides, reddit and youtube influencer doomerism on the matter is not reflective of reality, as you just don't see the average normal employed person mention their status.

[@lavatasche2806]

its a psyop to get less people to study cs. I am sure of it.

[@JimAllen-Persona]

Agreed. I'm sick of 23 year olds whining that they have to pay their dues like everyone else. Do some grunt work, get your hands dirty. Get some experience and then put yourself out there. Don't think a CS degree is a passport to employment... you're competing against people with experience. Or... just move to India, Croatia or some other ex-Russian satellite.

[@uwotm8634]

​@@JimAllen-PersonaCS grads do want experience though, it's just that companies are not willing to give it out that easily.

[@189Blake]

Well, I understood it as if CS graduates are complaining, that means the situation is absolute shit. I can't imagine how hard it must be to land a first job in the current market.

[@aarholodian]

@@uwotm8634 What companies though? You will not get a job at prestigious companies if you don't have professional or academic accolades, sure, but there are plenty of even huge non-tech companies, startups, local shops, or government contractors who don't have stringent experience requirements. Even so, there are plenty of ways to apply in a smart way to get recruiter attention or not get passed by ATS

[@swozzlesticks3068]

I graduated undergrad in 2019. In 2015 when i was a freshman, there was constant raving about Actuarial Science being a cheat code. "Oh there's no actuaries. it's so free. the market is completely empty we need more actuaries." I was already feeling inclined to stats and I knew a few family friends that were actuaries so I decided to go into it. By the time I graduated, the market was flooded. In 2015 you could have 1 actuarial exam under your belt and people would be hunting you down trying to get you to interview. 2019 (and now), your resume is getting thrown in the trash unless you have at least 3 actuarial exams with high scores. And you better hope you're brilliant or have an internship. Many people I went to school with weren't able to get jobs in their field. From what I hear from my CS friends, it's similar except it was a little delayed. Also in 2015, the story was "bro you can have a 2.5 GPA from a crap school and you're making >60k first year easy, light work" and it's a bit delayed but it seems now the same thing is happening. CS isn't dead but the "if you have a technical mind, CS will get you a job easy" idea is dead. The flood of demand comes in and suddenly the market is competitive. It just fuckin sucks, even if it's predictable.

[@optimalfrequencytrader]

Computer Science is not for everyone! You not only have to get your degree but you have to constantly seek more knowledge about the niche that you are working in, and make adjustments if you think it is necessary. That requires that you are comparing your skills to the skills of your competition, and also what is expected of you at your job It’s hyper competitive but the reward is also competitive

[@kaijuultimax9407]

Point 3 is entirely stupid. There are a lot of things that require thousands of hours to become average at, like drawing. I can draw at a decent level, but it still falls short of art that would get a lot of commissions, let alone land you a full-time job.

[@TheDa6781]

It is not stupid, just not well put. He should have added "compared to years before". The amount of knowledge you need to get your foot into the door is enourmous, compared to 10-15 years ago.

[@marcoceriani1069]

Without a degree I could not - read a network dump to understand why a persistent socket stops working - understand that the OS in a virtual machine is forwarding traffic to the wrong network interface - understand that one piece of code failed on Solaris because of the CPU endianness. - use strace to check why a 3rd party tool gets stuck and so on

[@funicon3689]

you could certainly learn all of that without a degree. its just that most people dont bother to.

[@jordanmatthew6315]

Google , Reddit, Stack Overflow, Forums, KZbin, ETC. Their you go skill issue.

[@RandomNoob1124]

@@funicon3689having a mentor or teacher is better guidance than trying to do everything yourself though.

[@marcoceriani1069]

@@funicon3689 you're absolutely right! I can rephrase my comment: if I hadn't someone write down a study plan for me, I probably wouldn't have bothered studying some of those basic about how things work, like computer architecture, network stacks, etc, that are rarely used, but can make a difference when needed. And nowadays you can even learn all those things for free with great on-line resources. You just need the right person who points you in the right direction, and the time to study.

[@MAJ4K]

I've done a lot of graphics programming, KZbin and just general Google are terrible resources to learn something specialized. Reddit and stack overflow are good but there are some issues even they don't have answers for. If there was a class that went in depth for graphics I'd take it

[@yourfriend9503]

Peiple forget that CS college majors are actually designed for students who will in majority end up in researvh and not software development, they think its for software engineering or development but its not. Its like a physicist studying to become an engineer, you could but the major wasn't exactly to prepare you in that field primarily. That is why there is software engineer for software engineers and software development.

[@sophiaonyoutube]

I agree about the time being a huge benefit. College gives us more time to prepare for what's out there compared to bootcamps. But indeed, not everything is taught in class so the skill to self-learn stuff is essential for every person aspiring to be a developer

[@Sound_.-Safari]

If the question is college vs boot camp. College has more value (debatable if worth the extra cost). But what about the kids that have been programming for fun since 13 years old. I’d argue college does very little for them and becomes more like a 1337 code exercise

[@dimitrisdrosos245]

I fking had a feeling it was about counter strike from the start. 🎉

[@Songfugel]

Pretty good takes. Liked, subbed and now commented

[@meylisso2097]

Perfect Brother I like your reviews👍

[@kraldada6557]

bamboozled

[@hebozhe]

No, the exact opposite would be implied by that distribution. If the number of jobs is constant, but the actual pool of candidates is trending low on the distribution, having less skill than before would entail more job opportunities for the lower-skilled. Employers would only have the choices available in the marketplace. So, the explanation is some mix of (a) the kid is right, (b) the number of jobs per graduate has decreased (and so the kid is half-right), or (c) employers perform a sort of left-right filtration process for all dev roles (the general hiring experience, regardless of profession).

[@bagheriali2001]

About college, some companies in my country start the interview with "Just throw away everything you learned in college because we don't need it", but a few minutes after that ask about a college degree. If you don't have it they say "you are not qualified for this job". I believe college still is the best place to learn fundamentals (like what is TCP and how it works) + with lots of garbage curriculum, but if you can learn them on your own that's fine too.

[@PPCCO.]

I love the fact the comp sci majors don't understand business cycles, it puts me an an advantage to enter in the market at the bottom.

[@nicwhites]

It always makes me laugh when I see this hilarious take. No, CS is far from dead. As a Computer Engineering grad, I took many CS courses that really helped that almost every self taught programmer I've ever met struggled with. This issue with self taught is the tendency (from what I've seen) to be good in a single area and not very well versed in computing in general. It's cool that you know some javascript and maybe know it indepthly, but can you explain cache coherency? Memory alignment? State machines? K maps? Linear Algebra for SIMD operations? The list goes on and on. Yes, college has alot of waste, but if you participate in your college experience and don't just go to class and take exams you're experience can be vastly superior to someone who hasn't gone. If you go to college don't waste it. If you can't go to college, find a syllabus for CS courses and learn the material. Also, stop focusing web dev. I recommend people start with microcontroller programming before ever touching the network stack. The TI MSP430 is a great place to start.

[@nevokrien95]

Me failing my cs degree

[@Slashx92]

4:20 the time alone is SO important. It's what makes or breaks people in their first job. How you think about things literally changes when you are more and more time thinking about solving things with software

[@Kyoz]

The biggest benefit to a degree is that it gives you a broad perspective of the subject. You get to see every subfield of your field and some of the information relevant to those subfields may be useful elsewhere in your career path. When you encounter certain problems even if you cannot recall how to solve them, you will probably recall what subfield your problem relates to and can research it. Tldr; Degree is like having a cheatsheet of what to research when you don't know how to solve a problem.

[@luisalejandroquirogagomez1721]

I have a CS degree and I'm in Latin America. Here, a CS degree without connections or if you don't know people, will be useless. Uni is for you to make a network only, because you can learn everything on the Internet. I have that problem, I don't know anybody, so I don't have a job. Just think of it as if you were to hire somebody, you'll always think about relatives and friends first, and then you'll look for people with experience, and then the fresh graduates that nobody knows about. Life now as a CS engineer is difficult, MUCH more than before.

[@klaudyw3]

Thousands of hours to be average? If we look at it as a job, it's gonna be 40 hours a week. If it takes you 5000 hours to be average, that's ~2.5 years. It feels about right that after that much time you are average. You can make the same argument for most jobs where there''s enough room to grow skill-wise and no significantly higher demands for entry level: It takes thousands of hours to be an average (welder|electrician|plumber|accountant|scammer|joe).

[@WillScrillz]

Yeah but its a much wider field. Ive been in the field professionally for 2 1/2 years and am slightly above average in the technologies we use at work but only in the specific ways we use them. When it comes to any other aspects of programming, I am decidedly below average. 5000 hours as a plumber and you are average or above in every single thing that come your way.

[@gerdokurt]

​@@WillScrillz Source of your ..exclusive..plumber knowledge? I think your knowledge about other professions is very limited.

[@brando8314]

I cannot justify putting that amount of hours into CS, CS: Source, CS: Go, or CS2. I have a career to work on!

[@xanderabbey8529]

@@WillScrillz This goes for most Science and Engineering fields that have been around for long enough. There is simply too much to learn to master it all.

[@WillScrillz]

@@gerdokurt You offered no reason my assessment is incorrect plus one of my best friends is a plumber lol. His father runs a plumbing company and a bunch of the employees game with us all the time. They generally find their days repetitive and boring at this point in their career. Im not saying plumbers are never exposed to novel problems, just that at 5000 hours their ability to solve them is around average, whereas an engineer will likely start handling a new process and be way worse than someone who has been working with that for 2.5 years. If you have been writing typescript/angular for 2.5 years and are tasked with managing the pipeline and deployments, your angular experience is of minimal utility. I also just worked a number of jobs before switch to software engineering and the path to mastery was consistently more linear. 2.5 years into audio engineering and I began touring the world with an award winning show and was able to chop it up with lifelong veterans. The principles for arena shows are pretty much the same as small shows, just more of it and better. That is just not the case with software.

[@darkwoodmovies]

OMG what a twist! 5/7 perfect video

[@CodeDog-jh5dg]

They keep claiming a CS degree is not important until they have to build something more meaningful than some super simple marketing frontend app! SMH

[@PeaceInAfrica]

Yeah well, I'm nearly 40, a senior dev and half way through doing a CS degree as a hobby. Yeah sure it's not a requirement to anying at this point, but I am learning cool algorithm stuff and getting nice refreshers. It does make me a better dev but mostly its fun.

[@JacobBogers]

"It does make me a better dev" There is a whole book on algos, you need a 4 years degree to read maybe 3 books?

[@heavenaldrico]

I wasn't expecting the counter-strike rant at the end.. fuck off it's good

[@PSkinnerTech]

Now realizing I'm the same age as him he he said, "When I was a kid it was all about Quake, or Doom, or Unreal Tournament." Same.

[@baptistel8375]

Man. Thanks for the kind words on catering/restauration industry. Being there for years, moved on in CS :)

[@Bomag]

It should be illegal to abreviate anything other than counter-strike to CS

[@xerr0n]

yeah, no. ive been in the field for quite few years now. i don't really like working with someone whose fully self taught on cs, could be ive only found some who are not good. it feels like they have no depth to them, hard to get on the same page, hard to get things moving and are headstrong in being better than everyone else. EDIT: yes i didnt finish the video before commenting either, i refuse to take the L as well, and im in full agreement with UT99, it is the superior game.

[@Lucas-mp5dw]

Ok Sheldon Cooper.

[@finalformluigi]

I don't fully agree with your psychological analysis but I feel you. At my current job, the only people with CS degrees are my PM (got it 25 years ago lol) and me. I try to make suggestions to the team according to what I think is optimal/best practice and they just want to do the easiest thing (which is usually to say "yeah this is probably going to be an epic" and table it for 2 quarters LOL). Not having the depth of understanding means we don't have time in our 30 minute grooming session for me to explain where I'm coming from. I feel like this situation is only made worse by modern compute power which masks awful code performance (until its so bad something breaks) and the popularization of cloud which abstracts a lot of OS and networking concepts to some web forms on AWS. For example, our highest spend rn is on RDS instances. My background is in database engineering (currently full stack aka backend plus Googling FE framework on stack overflow) and I have told them many times over the past year that we need to roll our own database infrastructure because rds is expensive and we could solve a lot of our data issues with a custom architecture...but instead we moved to aurora serverless v2 because hey let's spend 5x for equivalent compute because it does the get big then get smol for us!

[@xerr0n]

@@finalformluigi Holy F do i mirror what you've just wrote there. Got mine 15 years ago and am upgrading it right now as well. ive really stared to hate the pareto principle from these kinds of interactions, easy things only, the hard things may be done by others, ie ill only do the 80% of the easier part of the job for 100% of pay while others may do the leftover 20% (that takes 80% of the time on the project). i get it to some extent, im lazy as well, but id also like to do things proper and with foresight not just globber some things together if i can help it. had a guy prop up a terminal solution, ie RDS :P. And it was so half baked i started to notice some glaring problems on why it would not be better to change out our hardware to a terminal solution. first off, it was not really cheaper, yet he forgot to add the needed parts to power the terminal clients and cables to connect them to the monitors, the sd cards (pi terminals). why the 35$ went to 70 and then about 100-120 per terminal once i finished the excel table on it. and that was before adding the server itself. of course there were still the added RDS and client licences etc it lagged quite a lot (around 125-150 ms, bad cos the setup needed to, occasionally but still, play videos, usb passthorugh was either nonexistent (cant remember) or it had other problems as a critical component needed here could not work on the terminal. Hell i called around to see if others in the industry were using a terminal solution and no, they were either shutting it down, already had it shutdown or looked over it and did not take it into production. my annoyance and disappointment for such a lousy setup was great. and it didn't really end with that, he made other foolish propositions which didn't make sense and were really detrimental for operations.

[@greedyboi011]

The issue in programming is the lack of real entry level jobs where you can get paid to gain those skills on the job. Sure, you want the big bucks, you need to be able to do some very hard stuff and that does take time and is not for everyone, however lots of other industries have easier barriers to entry, but as with everything, takes years of dedication to master and earn good money. Those jobs don't exist in software anymore. Companies would rather burn you out and take the profit or employ hundreds of unskilled micro managers to whip their devs to produce more, when they could just hire more engineers and have overall better outcomes. Plus the amount of talent that is wasted because people can't afford to study and support themselves while questing for a flipping entry level position is sad.

[@reijin999]

i focused too much on sidequests in college and ended up forgetting about the main quest line. I am now trapped in IT hell.

[@avramcs]

Jesus Christ it took you like 20 minutes to get through a 20 second tiktok video

[@GetPsyched6]

10... and he said he does this because if a reaction channel isn't providing extra content to the original video then its just "live-watching other's content with chat" (my inference at the end)

[@_Lumiere_]

It's almost like the 20 sec tiktok video isnt the main attraction here lol

[@ellisfrancisfarros3935]

better than all the other reaction channels that watch the video, eat, laugh at one moment and watch the next thing. And it was funny to find out it was about counter strike at the end despite prime knowing the possibility of that happening.

[@dovos8572]

in germany i had 6 years of IT classes and in the end knew less about programming than a few days of watching tutorials could have teached me.

[@DjhiseMise]

thats your fault bro. Or at least you should have realized that for your bachelors ( assuming you didnt take 6 years for the bachelors )

[@JacobBogers]

_in germany i had 6 years of IT classes_ what courses did you have in your freshman year? and did you go to a real uni or did you do "fachshule"

[@Entropy67]

Why IT instead of engineering? From my experience, IT is more about system administration and management, not normally writing software.

[@JacobBogers]

@@Entropy67 That is how we call things in Europe, there is no CS name in any of the Germanic nations (Denmark, Netherlands, Germany). We call it "informatika" , IT is just an urban slang since "English words"

[@JacobBogers]

@@Entropy67 " not normally writing software." That maybe a new development in 2024, as the industry is maturing you get differentiation. But I have not seen this my personal career yet.

[@svhuwagv2965]

Unreal Tournament mentioned. I am subscribed now.

[@divtor]

I've literally drawn the milf curve a while back in an explanation for a buddy to show why its actually good that so many people start to code, even if you were below average before the "influx", you're gonna stand out now

[@Aphexlog]

When in graduated, all of the students receiving honors rewarded and sashes/ribbons & other special decorations as well as giving speeches were all (and I pretty much mean 100%) part of the well known cheater circle. Everyone who didn’t participate in that just had their plain black graduation gown. It was the most ridiculously looking thing ever, they even received some of their rewards from professors who caught them. The school work was actually really hard, which is why the rest of us who did our own work just got to just sit back and watch their reward ceremony

[@poomprawatkomolthitinan5209]

Although, here in my Asian country, they dont ask about your degree. But that’s because the resumes with unqualified university (based on social and hr standard) have already been dropped and might not even get the read through. It’s getting better now in small and mid size companies where they care less about the degree and more into the actual skill. Still, if you’re gonna apply to corporate. It’s very still a thing

[@JacobBogers]

Corporate is a different world, and having worked in some major ones, you dont want to be their if you are a a half decent coder!

[@Roseknight888]

Hey, Question Why are your Twitch VODs locked behind being a sub?

[@SeRoShadow]

Been applying to a lot of entry positions and sometimes I get the feeling these "postions" exist solely for poaching employees from competitors, not for the new devs.

[@Gnarcos]

I'm someone who saw Software Development, and Programing as a way out of my environment. After doing it for so long a building this big portfolio and doing all the right things for 3 years i got my first gig at a startup and I realized I hated it. the learning part was fun the job itself was horrible, so mind numbing. But I learned that that is not what I wanted and I made my way to being a pretty successful Technical Project Manager. Because I like talking with clinets and developers and I know what I'm talking about with them. Just learn to learn and see what happens, at the end of the day its just a job.

[@roz1]

CS degree is really important... U would never learn the path if u don't go through a well rounded course

[@mnchabel8402]

I feel like its gonna get tough for self taught and bootcamp devs, recently I've been getting calls from recruiters specifying they are not interested in self taught or bootcamp

[@CallousCoder]

I didn’t do CS I was in a trade school for microelectronics; that’s how education worked here in the Netherland. And I was already a low-level developer when I went there. And the electronics was a benefit even though I was just interested in the embedded hard and software. That electronics knowledge and the practical assignments taught me how to chunk problems, how to black box and electronics design translates great to software design. If anything CS should teach electronics design. I think a lot more developers would learn to think beyond their code and see the bigger picture. Yes there was a lot of overhead in those 4 years. But it taught me to be pragmatic and patient too.

[@JacobBogers]

"that’s how education worked here in the Netherland." Bullshit, I went to TU Delft (Netherlands), and anyone and their grandmother get into coding, even had a ex backery cook code stuff. Yes there is CS degree, but those are complete jokes as is seen their final MSc thesis projects (your average github open source project would be even more advanced) I wrote device drivers, removed copy protection from games, in my teens (that's what nerdic teens do). and the reason why i didnt choose CS was my consideration that if I am reading and changing code (hacking assembly into games) written by professionals in my teens, then why do i need CS? I choose applied physics instead, but after uni went back to coding because of the $$$$$$$.

[@CallousCoder]

@@JacobBogers back in 1990 there wasn’t a HTS that did CS (so an American of CS BSc) that was only taught at, university as a MSc (or drs in the day). The term bachelor didn’t exist, for HTS in the early 90s you were an ing. not even ir and there was no CS. There was HIO Informatica but that wasn’t CS related but more IT management - with focus on boring business finance applications design. If you wanted to do applied CS you studied HTS-E that’s how it worked. And we learned low-level software systems, writing basic operating systems, Dr Tabenbaum’s infamous book about design of operations systems using MINIX. And critical embedded systems implementation using assembly (Z80 and x86) and C and of course hardware design. Far more difficult than MSc CS is these days or HBO ICT. Education has dumbed down significantly. As even the schools admitted to my former employer where I was a mentor of our interns. It’s not that the kids are dumb, it’s just that education really is bad these days. Like you said MSc has silly web applications as graduation projects. My friend and I reverse engineered the old PTT calling cards we had in the early 90s and simulated it on my ATARI portfolio. We both were phreakers and crackers so getting to play with that new public telephone in the hallway and finding out how these call cards worked wasn’t even work for us. It was a shame though that we weren’t allowed the publish the workings in the HacTic we had to send our report to the PTT. We really wanted to share it with that magazine that had taught us so much.

[@JacobBogers]

@@CallousCoder you are filthy liar, I went to the TU Delft in 1988 (aerospace and later applied physics) and CS was back then already 2 years old as an independent course, in both HTS and TU. and long before that it was a subsection of mathematics/electronics. I know 2 friends who went to HTS Information technology in 1986. HTS was the first one to implement this as a standalone course before any TH/TU did. As a Dutch you lie because of some ancient Dutch working class , class warfare bullshit. Hacking the Telecom network with routing tones is a urban legend what Steve Jobs and "Wozzy" did in the late 70's, early 80's, in the 90's the 90's all Dutch Telecom switches were 100 digital and analog tones where not uses, for "interswitch" communications. Late 80's was the time of the Amiga and Atari 16 bit computers, you could learn everything just by reading the manuals (assembly, hardware chip registers memory mapped). No school needed since these manuals where publicly (or could be ordered) available at any bookstore.

[@CallousCoder]

@@JacobBogers zie hier de originele post. Ik claim geen universiteit te hebben gedaan, volgens mij heb je inderdaad wat draadjes door elkaar gehaald.

[@CallousCoder]

@@JacobBogers You could “bluebox” in the Netherlands up to around 1995 by then all the PBX’s were indeed digital. Before that 89-93 you could use CCITT5 (not the American 2600 nonsense) sys forward. So you’d call a toll free number and did the sys forward freeing up the line and dialed another number. It was far more difficult here because you needed accuracy of around 1ms for the 50 and 100ms tones. The golden standard of the blueboxes was the one that HackTic published. You can still find the issues of hacktic punt NL online where they gave nice lists of numbers that we happily used and also contributed to. So it was definitely possible, until 1993 here in IJsselstein region. My friend in Beesd had a bit longer of a respite. And the calling card, was a completely different thing, it only worked in phonebooths. And yes there was HIO there that also had CS but HIO was more focused on business IT was no dedicated CS course let alone highest applied! So you took EE here and you got a CS course as part of that.

[@andersmalmgren6528]

In my scene here in Sweden most devs i meet do have some kind of degree in computer science (Or like me, headhunted just before degree :D). And I must say the few that I have met that doesn't have it are missing "something". I think its the way of the engineer they havent learn. For example I have never seen a none CS dev pickup a paper and draw down a logic matrix before starting to code away, just as a small example.

[@JacobBogers]

Most ppl indeed lack engineering discipline, if they went to uni and still just fuck around instead of planning, it was a very bad school (mostly indian sub grade)

[@_Lumiere_]

Får man fråga vilket program? Civilingenjör?

[@andersmalmgren6528]

@@_Lumiere_ jag gick civ ing datateknik gamla programmet innan reformen. Men ute i arbetslivet har jag stött på allt från systemvetare till högskoleingenjörer. Min poäng är att i princip all form av högre studier ger något de utan saknar. Just systemvetare har jag iof lite svårt för, kan ju bara vara jag som haft otur med de systemvetare jag träffat på iof.

[@giorgos-4515]

Question: what is the rust book prime recommends??

[@Eggs-n-Jakey]

Going to school for me was just being held accountable, I'm basically teaching myself but there are consequences if I do not continue. I spend most of my free time researching tech and deep diving on things I find interesting, trying to stay hyped.

[@ArisAris-fs1ip]

In Europe, I found a junior remote dev job 3 months ago as a self taught. Yesterday, a recruiter from another company sent me on linkedin, that I would be a great fit for their team. I got my first raise today. Everything is possible, if you are 100% dedicated to it.

[@MrDunlop707]

Having strong CS foundation + degree expands your horizons in terms of programming job fields. If you are self taught, it is almost impossible to find programming job outside of web dev and even web dev jobs are hard to get.

[@innocentsmith6091]

The real problem is seeing CS as the "get a job in tech" degree. Nothing he said applies to people who want to actually do computer science. You know, the people who would've done it back when computer scientists were still part of the math department.

[@shurmurray]

Also - it's UT99 coined the phrase "headshot" and greatly promoted game mechanics when aiming to the head deals moar dmg. =)

[@electrified0]

As someone who's been involved in hiring process of nearly 100 software engineers, knowing how to write code you fundamentally do not understand is an immediate disqualifying red flag and an obvious leg up CS grads have over bootcamps. I'm sure you can find work somewhere with a bootcamp certificate, but at least in FAANG where engineers are the ones making hiring decisions, you're going to need to do extensive reading beyond application if you want to stand a chance.

[@br3nto]

Software engineering defs needs to be a degree. We could do it by apprenticeship, but it’s an engineering skill and those base skills need to be taught consistently. Anyone can do a home renovation or build a cubby or shed, but not everyone can build a building or bridge. Same with software scope.

[@FGB64]

All the truly outstanding engineers I've worked with were self-taught. Some had CS degrees. Some did not.

[@MrBa143]

Applying for a startup? The work you've done in your free time matters.. showing what you are capable matters. Applying for a job at a larger structured corporation with designated teams? They dont care about what you've already done, they want to know you have a foundation and know how to code. They will teach you exactly what you need to know, to get stuff done in this new position.

[@bonsairobo]

Nepotism definitely exists in software. I haven't seen it to the extent where someone just can't code, but I've definitely seen shitty coders that don't care about their craft or being a team player, but they still manage to have a lot of power just because they know a founder or something.

[@darbyburbidge8976]

On the cheating front, @ 7:15, while it's true that there's no substitute for practice, it's also true that on paper they look the same, and when coming out of school it means the competition to even get an interview will be much more difficult. It's going to take much more time for the industry to sieve those people out (or, and I think this is what we're seeing, is that you can't get a job without school + side projects), and it hurts everyone trying to get into the industry who doesn't have the strongest on-paper resume.

[@EzOddz]

Problem is everything in the degree IT related I already know. Legit only started learning about web Dev in year 3 when I did that in highschool its a joke

[@agingbach4351]

More people means more competition and while I might be slightly more driven and slightly more clever I do not think I’m a genius so it does make me worried how many people are going into it

[@vullkani]

I am sorry but I saw that video that you quit streaming, is this an older video or did I get it wrong?

[@kevinlyman1]

When Prime was talking about cheating your way through Stanford but now you know people who created things so you can get a job, all I thought about was Big Head from Home Box Office's Silicon Valley

[@JonathanTheZombie]

CS is very much alive for good engineers. Experience is king.

[@woolfel]

I loved my time in college studying english lit. College is over priced now and the top universities don't care about teaching, especially research universities. You're better off going to a smaller state college that focuses on teaching.

[@nang88]

Hey prime nice vid

[@Thomas-gi9vy]

In my opinion, a very forgettable benefit of college is the ability to network with recruiters much more effectively. I wouldn't have the job I have now if I didn't use the relationship between the company and my school to my advantage and get my foot in the door

[@darronvanaria2952]

What? College was some of the best times of my life. I thought the comp sci classes were so-so but there is so much more to going to college than just what degree you walk away with

[@vapandris]

Prime makes a 27s video to a 10 minute video. Truly top shelf content ❤

[@IldemaroJoseRomero-sr5yj]

The college stuff I think it only works in countries where you actually get really useful information, but Computer Science it is horribly taught where I live, I can tell that you basically lost time in college, so it was basically worthless, I don't doubt that some countries would have amazing college, but this is not a reality that can be applied to every country.

[@joaooliveirarocha]

this was golden