Why Data Engineer is Better than Data Scientist Role

In this video, we are diving into 4 reasons why data engineering might be a better career choice than data scientist role. Are you team data engineer or data scientist? Share in comments 👇
WATCH THESE VIDEOS NEXT
My Self-Taught Data Science Journey: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWXVaoKtn96meq8
How I Would Learn Data Science in 2023: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kIjKg6mNbcmShJY
Harsh Reality of Being a Data Scientist? kzbin.info/www/bejne/pp-TgYiPZc-qfbM
~~~ CERTIFICATES & COURSES ~~~
DATA SCIENTIST
📊 Data Science Certificate 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/DataScienceCert
🏅 Data Science Bootcamp 👉🏼 bit.ly/data-scientist-bootcamp
DATA ANALYST
🏅 Google Data Analytics Certificate 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/GoogleDataCert
🏅🏅 Google Advanced Data Analytics Certificate 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/advanced-data-analyst
⚡ IBM Data Analytics Certificate 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/ibm-data-analyst
📊 Microsoft BI Data Analyst Certificate 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/msft-dataanalyst
PYTHON
🐍 Python for Everybody 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/PythonSpec
⚡ Python for Data Science 👉🏼 bit.ly/python-data-science-ml
📑 Python for Data Visualization 👉🏼 bit.ly/python-data-viz
🏅 Python Pandas 👉🏼 bit.ly/python-pandas-data-analysis
SQL
⚡ SQL Basics for Data Science 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/SQLforDS
🏅 SQL Bootcamp 👉🏼 bit.ly/sql-bootcamps
MACHINE LEARNING
🏅 Machine Learning Bootcamp 👉🏼 bit.ly/machine-learning-atoz
⚙️ Machine Learning Specialization 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/ML
STATISTICS
⚙️ Statistics for Data Analysis 👉🏼 bit.ly/statistics-data-science
📑 Intro to Statistics 👉🏼 imp.i384100.net/Stats
EXCEL
🎨 Excel for Data Analysis 👉🏼imp.i384100.net/Excel
🎨 Excel Advanced 👉🏼 bit.ly/data-scientist-bootcamp
CODING PRACTICE
🏅 Practice Coding Interviews 👉🏼 stratascratch.com/?via=sundas
🌍 ALL COURSES 👉🏼 kit.co/SundasKhalid
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MY FAVORITE GEAR
🎥 My KZbin Camera Gear - kit.co/SundasKhalid
⌨️ My Desk Setup - kit.co/SundasKhalid
MY FAVORITE TOOLS
📚 Read Books FAST on Shortform 👉🏼 www.shortform.com/sundas
✍️ Coursera Plus 7 day free trial 👉🏼imp.i384100.net/CourseraPlus
🏅 Practice Coding Interviews 👉🏼 www.stratascratch.com/?via=sundas
LET'S BE FRIENDS
🌍 My website - sundaskhalid.com
📸 Instagram - sundaskhalidd
🐦 Twitter - sundaskhalid6
SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE VIDEOS
kzbin.info
BINGE THESE PLAYLISTS NEXT
Starting in Data Science: kzbin.info/aero/PLNvMRDyXHRnfRw-wJa4BSUdZjtnBEXkGH
Learn SQL: kzbin.info/aero/PLNvMRDyXHRne8qEj3Uipdt4eqkmN1z7bG
The Tech Lounge: kzbin.info/aero/PLNvMRDyXHRneiXWLSPJX2ZhMp09bpSJkV
ABOUT ME
I'm Sundas. I'm a self-taught data scientist from a non-tech background, currently at a FAANG company. I have been in the industry for over 8 years spread across two big tech companies. On this channel, I share tips for people interested in entering data science with the goal to democratize knowledge and make complicated topics digestible for everyone. All opinions are mine!
PS. Some of the links included are affiliate links and help me keep this channel going. Thanks for the support.
Business inquiries: [e-mail]
#dataengineer #datascientist

[@vish949]

You should definetly make a DE roadmap! I personally want to get into BI tools and learn about data pipelines and such but dont know where to start

[@LukeBarousse]

Data Engineers; the true heroes of data science 🙌🏼

[@SundasKhalid]

facts. they are underrated for no reason.

[@o.b.itwistedrose1091]

Totally agree.

[@shashankgupta9255]

Data engineer have more salary or data scientist have more salry ???

[@fatouz5104]

​@@shashankgupta9255it depends but they are basically the same

[@fatouz5104]

​@@shashankgupta9255I checked in glassdoor turns out data scientist gains more

[@manasr3969]

Amazing video. Thats probably the truth i was looking for. Sometimes Its so hard to add value when there is not much you can do with the data.

[@seowithkm]

Thank you so much Sundas for sharing your experience. I want to ask you a question. I'm an SEO Professional, obsessed with Data. What route I can take to leanrn Data Processing to enhance my overall Effectiveness. Looking forward to your response.

[@mr.nonederful3314]

I think the term Data Scientist has been so watered down by KZbin and certification courses that people don't understand what it is or how difficult it is to become an actual Data Scientist. It's like comparing a Jr. Accountant in a corporation to its CFO. One "may" lead to the other, but the gap is huge. Most of the actual Data Scientists I know and work with are Ph.D level mathematicians and researchers. DA/DE's usually are undergrads with a few having a masters here or there in computer science etc. Also, not to be too harsh on the content creator, I do think it's worth mentioning that she also produced a video last year "Why I left Data Engineering for Data Science". So some of this feels like click bait.

[@turtle8428]

Keep doing what you're doing man

[@carti8778]

Obviously it’s a click bait

[@nikeshdubey4129]

​@@sergiocarmona6567so you think automation can't kill data engineer?

[@sergiocarmona6567]

@@nikeshdubey4129 not in 10 years

[@apamwamba]

Ph.D level mathematicians and researchers you work with , are they UNICORN DATA SCIENTISTS??

[@martinclausse584]

In my recent experience trying to get into data as a junior (in Argentina), I find that there are a lot of job posts in Data Engineering (most of them are named Data Analyst but it's basically building pipelines and ETLs). The few job posts in Data Science that I found were semi-senior, requiring +2 years of experience in ML or something like that. And in all of them, I find the Catch-22 problem: everyone wants you to already have experience doing x. And if they only require advanced Excel skills (which I have), then you end up in a company working with spreadsheets like in 2005.

[@MoReal2]

companies are still strugging to integrate data science in their business process,so they end up having data scientists doing data analysis or data engineering in best case.

[@ravenecho2410]

i thing the main thing would be just to harken back to functional programming, one could imagine data science as finding f as a query about like what makes f(x)->y, given some conditions. if one regards machine learning in that context data science is just specialized at writing a query. then u could just see how its a transformation of data in the live pipeline. the *queries* data-scientists use are very specialized (classification, regression, clustering, reward), and the data can be tricky, and i think there's a huge gap in this like *functional understanding of mathematics/statistics* where we can just project onto another space and encode and decode, and what and what doesnt hold. but... at the end of the day, its just a data transformation even if the transformation is learned from a subquery, so always best to understand fundamentally what we are doing as data scientists

[@shehbazkhan6674]

now that is an excellent addition to a lot of people's fumbling perspectives about these two specific roles !! thanks !

[@SundasKhalid]

Thank you! Having worked in both roles, I can speak from experience, thus a clear POV.

[@shehbazkhan6674]

yeah , it's been 2 years following you here, anyways I am still confident to opt data science !! i am just 22 but what I think is that you can't get yourself rated in industry as a DE whereas the DS gets themselves perk and plus points because of huge factor of good networking & communications skills !

[@arafatabsi6546]

Thank you Sundas, I am a data analyst, and wanted to start with Data science but i feel i am closer to Data Engineer. Do you already have a comprehensive video that explains the skills of a data engineer. And do you think AI will replace this role!

[@SundasKhalid]

I don't have a DE roadmap video but there are ton of awesome channels on youtube that talk about data engineering. and no, I don't think AI will replace DE jobs.

[@johnsujith12]

Hey do you have a video on differences between Data Engineer and Data Analyst?

[@terencelim9889]

Great points...Thanks Sundas!

[@SundasKhalid]

thanks for watching!

[@ringostarkiller7097]

Hi! Very interesting video! I am a business analyst and would like to work in the "data industry". Do you think it makes sense transitioning into the industry as a data engineer if my long-term goal is to be a product manager (business oriented) in the data sector?

[@Anjali-km6tj]

very informative. thank you for sharing these insights

[@tylerdurden5388]

I have done mtech phd and know how research burns out. I actually kind of had a hint that ds is mostly research into models, while data engineer is project work mostly. Really thank you.

[@viniciopower6825]

I'm a Senior Data Scientist and I do not recommend becoming a Data Scientist. Why? Most of the clients don't have infrastructure and money to pay for an entirely Data Team and we need to do everything. The problem is: data scientists need to be good in math, programming, soft skills, so on.. when you realize that you need to know everything since ETL until deploying the solution, you see it is not worth it. You will get paid as a Software Eng / Data Eng / Eng. Machine Learning but the difference is that you might ending up getting in touch with all those areas. Many companies are hiring Data Analysts to reduce costs and Data Science jobs are decreasing. I'm considering a lot to migrate to Data Engineering, Machine Learning Engineering or even Software Engineering.. at least I might have some inner peace.

[@rajns8643]

Genuine question: Isn't the problem of one guy doing everything more rampant in startups rather than big companies? Also, I have heard that ML/DL engineer openings are significantly less than DA/DS. And that only big companies need these roles.

[@scrotiemcboogerballs2133]

Thank you for being candid. Is it reasonable to assume that the reason Data Science jobs are decreasing is simply due to the nomenclature of job titles just becoming more mature? Like instead of requiring a Data Scientist to do all functions that a Data Engineer would do, now the Data Scientists are being hired for modeling and other Scientist work while the company simultaneously hires Data Engineers for pipeline work. And generally companies need fewer scientists and more data engineers. (My own noob assumptions) As someone with a background in Physics and Astronomy but interested in Data, do you have a recommendation on where I should start? Originally I was going to begin courses on Data Science but after reading what you wrote and seeing the job demand decrease for Data Scientist I'm now wondering where to begin.

[@wolfgangschroder6742]

well why not consider be a Astro Engineer? It is far more interesting than the roles in data. and much cooler@@scrotiemcboogerballs2133

[@jarg7]

@@scrotiemcboogerballs2133 don't let one persons shitty experience get you off track. The dude sounds like he works for a miserable start up that over works its employees, and he doesn't know how to set expectations. Its his own fault, not the role.

[@tashikaalford6771]

So should I continue taking the classes you recommend for data science

[@lateeshanicole]

Do you suggest to become a data analyst before a data engineer? Or I I could go straight to data engineering?

[@rishikulkarni9581]

Hey could you make a video on what your CV holds in regards to Data Science because I'm from a non computer background and it could be really usefull

[@sitrakaforler8696]

DE is a key role and it's fare to say that it's easier to show off with it. Already had to build pipelines and clearly for me building ML models is more exciting than pipelines x)

[@SundasKhalid]

I don't disagree. I find data scientist work to be more creative. it pushes me to think outside the box more often. I also really like working with product and business stakeholders.

[@komimarcatsou1871]

ML models in production are nothing more than (data) pipelines. Except if the model is not going to production. As a dats engineer you can also collaborate with product and business. This is not to say that data engineef is better than data scientist or vice versa. It all depends on the context and what interests you.

[@scrotiemcboogerballs2133]

@@SundasKhalid Why do 87% of data science projects never make it to production (VentureBeat, 2019)? And do you think this trend of data science work seeming like R&D and not revenue direct, contributes to the decreasing job postings for data scientists but increasing job postings for data analysts / data engineers?

[@jarg7]

@@SundasKhalid this is the last tidbit of what i needed to hear to decide that I would prefer data science! I value creative and out side the box thinking. Also engineering tends to be rote and boring. Coming from a front end developer background, Thanks for the videos and comments!

[@supriyanair7796]

IF I WANT TO LEARN SIMPLE CODING HOW CAN I.? I MEAN ANY WEBSITE OR APP ? WHICH IS COMPLETELY FREE

[@abhishekranjan2617]

My short term goal is to become Data Analyst and My long term goal is to become Data Engineer 😎😎😎👌🥰😘😘💪💪✌️🔥🔥

[@brandon_yt]

so is the diff. comperable to architect vs engineer?

[@Shalamarshalamar]

Thanks for the Informative Video //

[@SundasKhalid]

Thank you!

[@fatezero1919]

Hi, I have a bachelors degree in Industrial engineering and I want to work in the area of data science (analyst or engineer). I have the possibility to do my masters in Data science. Which steps would you recommend to me from now on, to get an internship in a big tech company?

[@eddyateye810]

I think you should start with data analysis, or dba roles where you focus hugely on developing data skills. I won't suggest you go for masters in data science. If you start as a data analyst or dba, nothing should stop you from getting into data science which I think you'll prefer machine learning or get into data engineering.

[@NeuroScientician]

Data Engineer sound like a role that might exist only inside massive conglomerates, but at least you are not expected to have Ph.D in statistics. Also, when I hear junior Data engineer, I think 2am nightmare level regex hieroglyphs :D

[@SundasKhalid]

the on-call as data engineer was a nightmare. I can't remember how many Sundays I worked to be ready for Monday.

[@wendykgosi149]

Oh no. I’ll stick with data science then. Thanks

[@simsingh4321]

lol @@wendykgosi149 you get influenced too soon. Experience it to be say no or yes.

[@loutyagents1730]

I have nothing to do with Data science.. I came to check your beauti ❤️

[@neerajchahal6849]

What do you see the future of snowflake developer in data engineering ? Should I switch to big data roles for safer future ?

[@yassersaid3700]

For those who want to make career changing, is it easy to get job for junior?

[@bhavyagupta1389]

Data engineering vs SWE, which pays more ?

[@Rookwood2012]

how is/was your work life balance as a DE?

[@shrishtiyadav1523]

How much is the salary of Data Scientist in Google.? Please reply me

[@yogajyothisomu2908]

But mam you only changed your carrer from data engineering to data science

[@muhammadzakiahmad8069]

Exact echo of my thoughts as a data scientist.

[@alertscpi7898]

I agree, but why is a data scientist and data analyst paid more?

[@fatezero1919]

Could you make a video about how to become a product manager in a big tech company?

[@SundasKhalid]

to be honest, I don't know enough to do a video on it but maybe I can invite a guest on the channel who can address this if there is enough interest in the topic.

[@fatezero1919]

@@SundasKhalid Yeah that would be great :)

[@xaheer]

Data scientists are best suited for good team leaders, possess excellent communication skills, are adept at building machine learning models, and are analytical professionals. Data engineers are suitable for people who are programmers or experts in software and data. Data Scientists Deal With: Data visualization Model building Communication and team management Statistical tools Machine learning Mathematics Data Engineers Deal With: Programming languages Database management Data pipelines

[@SundasKhalid]

great summary. I will add working with cloud technologies as one of the core skills for data engineering.

[@xaheer]

@@SundasKhalid “Data Engineers collect relevant Data. They move and transform this Data into ‘pipelines’ for the Data Science team. They could use programming languages such as Java, Scala, C++ or Python depending on their task.”

[@zulfiqar7967]

Why copy paste form google dude ?

[@danial_amini]

yeah that's the issue whenever your model isn't actually deployed or you don't get tangibles it feels not very satisfactory

[@scrotiemcboogerballs2133]

Why do 87% of data science projects never make it to production (VentureBeat, 2019)?

[@pradeepmore4902]

As a Statistics student I think Data Science is better for me than Data Engineering. Cause I don't have that much technical knowledge plus Data Science concepts are easy to understand for a Statistics student. What is your opinion on this?

[@grasshopper3085]

Totally. Data engineering will most likely be too technical for you because it deals with Linux, databases, etc, and all those things aren't trivial at all, and each one of those things have their learning curve. Also, the fact that you will major in statistics means you will have an edge over many other candidates that don't have it because they come from CS. So the more natural career path for you is to start as a data analyst and then move on to DS. Python and its DA libraries is probably the only major technical thing that you need to know regardless of the role, so start learning it from now.

[@pradeepmore4902]

@@grasshopper3085 ok. Thank you.

[@psanders4754]

Most businesses do not even have proper master data mangement to perform proper data science from my experience. Data Engineers are super important but also pulling out the insights from the data is just as important. There is no point in having pipeline that you cannot use.

[@scrotiemcboogerballs2133]

Why do 87% of data science projects never make it to production (VentureBeat, 2019)? Do you think it could be because what you mentioned about most businesses not even having proper data management systems?

[@preritpandya8050]

Hi.. i need your help in my profession. I am in taxation department and have to analyse 100's of spread sheet generated by different platforms.. please guide which language or set of skills i should learn to improve my performance and work efficiently. Please guide looking forward for your response

[@MambaMentality91]

You need to learn VBA (visual basic for application) for excel and python to automatized some redondant tasks. You will save Time liké that

[@shadabmahmoodkhan4182]

i am totally confused between both of them and still trying to figure out the diffrence between them. which path should choose and also i hate maths alot so as we all know that in bath career we need good math knowlenge to work in this profiles. so, now i'm going start with Pyhton and Sql because in both we need this two things to learn.

[@Gourdinho]

You don’t need maths in Data engineering. If you hate maths don’t become a data scientist.

[@karthik3707]

Can a fresher get into data engineer role? If so, what will be the minimum things to know..

[@apamwamba]

No... Start as a Data analyst and then see how it goes

[@Overheated521]

3:51 I like this reason 👍

[@krishnapavan2313]

Can you do a video on how to become a data engineer roadmap that will help a lot of people out there!!!

[@chiomalilianezema8535]

Check out this KZbin link

[@vish949]

Im currently a DA and want to avoid stats and algorithms as much as I can, will a DS or DE be more suitable for me?

[@shashankgupta9255]

De

[@rajns8643]

*Battlecry*

[@ScissorN]

Then Stay away from DS 😁

[@datamonster3212]

I'm a DS and the part of the work I enjoy most is building things with code, the maths and stats is more of a necessary evil for me. So, I'm thinking of transitioning to either MLE or DE, but I'm not yet sure what the pros and cons are.

[@tochukwueziokwu47]

Data engineering, backend software engineering or mlops engineering will be a good fit for you if you want to avoid math and statistics. I will not recommend Machine learning engineering.

[@scrotiemcboogerballs2133]

What did you end up deciding to do?

[@thabompala6524]

Please talk about machine learning engineer

[@apamwamba]

Do "data scientists" spend much of their time building models or utilizing already built model framworks. According to Andrew NG , data modelling is a solved problem. Personally i dont think the data scientist role really exists. DA , DE , MLE are roles that exist.

[@rajns8643]

Afaik, much of the data scientist's role is in bringing the data in the correct format and its visualization. Model building is relatively easy compared to the previous steps.

[@apamwamba]

@@rajns8643 DAs and DEs and MLEs can also do this

[@divinenwosu7819]

Hi I want to start as a data scientist, can you assist on how to get a job when I'm ready to apply for one

[@eddyateye810]

It'll be suicidal to employ a starter for ds. Already this role is under huge critic. Go in for more entry level jobs like data analysis, dba, or software engineering.

[@md.mehedihasan5759]

Your feedback may would save my life 🥹 Recently I started DATA SCIENCE course and trying my best as a non technical student 😢 Your previous video about transition DATA ENGINEER TO DATA SCIENCE NOW again why DE is best ?? What should I take for glamour future 😢?

[@raph8240]

You should understand what she's staying - If you are a creative person then go with data science but if you're something of an engineer then go with data engineering

[@andreasgamer6805]

At your last part, you said that data engineers are very similar to software engineer but they dont value the same. You mean that software engineers get paid more or less than data engineers?

[@bhaskartripathi]

Data Engineering requires just 1/100th of the skillsets and learning curve required in Data Science. So obviously, she will need help understanding and knowing what she is speaking. She may have built her content using chatGPT but says it is not a tangible product. :)

[@kevinhoang9074]

Respectfully you sound retarded.

[@modi3048]

@bhaskartripathi no bro it's 1/100000000000000000 of skill sets of a DS, as a Data Engineer myself I can tell for certain that the only job we data engineers do is to exist and we get paid.

[@basanthinoorbasha9993]

Hi 👋 I want to start as a data analyst can you suggest me how to start it and how to apply for jobs

[@SundasKhalid]

I did a video on this in Jan with full data analyst roadmap. I would watching that video.

[@sandipansarkar9211]

finished watching

[@herbsabeast1]

What I think is different between the data engineer vs scientist is the scientist has to be insanely passionate otherwise it people see it as mediocre. Data engineer's are more important because they can almost cut out data scientist.

[@HieuNguyen-eg3iq]

Can I get a freelance job or remote job for DA or DE ??

[@jimbocho660]

Companies will not share their data with an outsider.

[@Hello_am_Mr_Jello]

Yeah DA for sure

[@gelodude07]

for people who struggle with math and cant convince people with data and defend their analysis and , data engineering is good. data science not only requires advance math and statistics skills but also communicating findings. plus given that it is easier to learn for people to code than do mathematical statistics, i think the supply of labor among data engineers will grow fast which will cause salaries to normalize. data scientists develop data decision making skills that could lead to c-suite roles. also what a click bait when you posted 2 years ago you left data engineering for data science.

[@wendykgosi149]

So if you enjoyed data engineer so much , why did you switch to data science lol. Doesn’t make sense.

[@jobyjohn9434]

Sundas posted a video four months ago titled "Why I Left Data Engineering" in which she expressed that the job was boring and made her feel like a second-class citizen, there is no career growth. So now you make another video - Why is data engineer better than data scientist role? Am i the only one who is finding it to be bit odd here. :( kzbin.info/www/bejne/nai5lYKNoMefeqs *Why i left data engineering*

[@SundasKhalid]

I like that you watched both videos. Thank you :) You prob already noticed some themes between the 2 videos. It's not odd. data engineering is a good career path but it wasn't for me. This video shares aspects of data engineering job family that I enjoyed, though these things were not enough for me to stay in the job family.

[@MJ-gu6uu]

So she have experienced both positions. This is why she may clearly know pros and cons of both of them. Isn’t it?)

[@Nick-du9ss]

But do you think automation can eat data engineering job ?

[@gavinkalaher7314]

Automation will speed up repetative aspects, but not replace the role.

[@Nick-du9ss]

@@gavinkalaher7314 but it will decrease number of jobs opening in data engineering ?

[@gavinkalaher7314]

@@Nick-du9ss I don't think so personally. All indications suggest that demand will increase over the next 2-7 years. Tech roles and technologies evolve rapidly anyway, so by that time the DE role may morph into another role as yet undefined (probably more integrated with machine learning).

[@Nick-du9ss]

@@gavinkalaher7314 what profession in you are ? May i know

[@SundasKhalid]

+1 to what Gavin said.

[@utkarshsingh2675]

tbh i find data engineering role too technical...don't enjoy it as much as data scientist role

[@SundasKhalid]

True, it's pretty technical and not for everyone.

[@sabhavathyashwanth9145]

I don't understand that why you are making more negative contents only on data science roles.....are 2-3 videos not enough to get details in view..!!

[@physicistgaming4934]

Only here coz you are too pretty ❤

[@proyectoluces3872]

good

[@sanadabo-radi8373]

شرح جميل

[@waitwhat9669]

also you have to be exceptionally smart as a Data Scientist

[@SundasKhalid]

facts. data scientist is super competitive field.

[@fatouz5104]

So which ine is harder the job of a ds ou a DE?

[@agunkpa]

Any recommendation of data engineering course for beginner?

[@gavinkalaher7314]

I'd learn Python fundamentals first, otherwise you will struggle. After 1-2 months of learning Python, the Introduction to Data Engineering course on DataCamp is good.

[@agunkpa]

@@gavinkalaher7314 alright, thanks

[@Ashendilantha]

​@@gavinkalaher7314 can data engineer earn money more than doctor

[@gavinkalaher7314]

@@Ashendilantha depends where you're located, the company you work for and your level of experience.

[@muhammadaditiyasyahwalputr4228]

​@@agunkpa Orang indo Kah?

[@stauf6459]

Wait, isn't this the same person that left Data Engineer for Data Scientist role? kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX_ClqhmadCLns0

[@NeuroScientician]

Firstest :D

[@SundasKhalid]

first comments are the best :) cheers!

[@sakthi130]

Hi how could I contact you regarding data science jobs. Your LinkedIn profile link or email ID to contact you?

[@SundasKhalid]

I don't offer 1-1 chat at the moment. You can leave your questions in the comments and maybe I or someone in the community can share POV.