Why Dead by Daylight Hates Trap Killers

[@TheOnlyZath]

Couldn't agree more on this Trapper analysis. Every map they add shows their philosophy regarding Trapper, that being, they've forgotten he exists. The latest map we got in the PTB is a blinding white wasteland devoid of any grass to hide traps in.

[@BitsOfHorror]

The only two changes he needs is that the traps should spawn in useful areas places he is likely to visit in chase (As if he set them before). The traps themselves mimic the texture below it this way sand/snow/grass/etc. doesn't matter.

[@BouncingTribbles]

which is hilarious, because snow could easily be used as "clumps of grass". Just have little collision free snow drifts that just show the teeth. It really shows that they don't even want to think about it.

[@firetube8288]

​@@BouncingTribblesgreat idea actually

[@user-ko7gk7wp5x]

@BitsOfHorror honestly I would be fine if that was an add-on, what trapper really needs is for his traps to actually matter, bloody coil NEEDS to be basekit, and for the system to be expanded into deep wounds and even downs if someone disarms while in deep wounds for some reason.

[@buraaqwasti7729]

@@BitsOfHorroron god i don’t know why they haven’t made it so his traps change color based on the terrain at the very least the map

[@theavsky1428]

Hearing Pixelbush referencing competitive smash bros was not on my bingo card today but honestly Im here for it

[@thefakebanette3483]

You're welcome for that

[@apkhbmbgamlkbh1531]

Smash Ultimate is NOT competitive

[@fogdragon23]

I think the most frustrating part about Trapper's situation is his weaknesses have been pointed out for many, many years. Even in the case of him being a tutorial killer, new players now pick up tactics faster than new players from 8 years ago.

[@FFKonoko]

Do they? Or are the tactics just different and improved?

[@danielbarnes1241]

​@@FFKonokothey do. It's like Leauge where even pisslow players would dumpster half the playerbase from before. There's just so many tools and stuff to learn with or peope to ask.

[@b1akn3ss93]

I’d like to choose which killer I use in the tutorial

[@roflmows]

i dunno, i seem to do pretty well in most Trapper matches. if you don't spend the first 3 minutes derping around placing traps, and if you place them where they won't necessarily expect them, you can get pretty easy kills. maybe i'm just a whiz at placing traps in weird spots, i dunno. i usually do pretty well. pro tip: Blood Favor + Undying is really strong on Trapper.

[@SLeNDeR_KiLLeR]

They can't buff hag too much or Gummy is going to break the meta

[@MCDLXXXVIII_]

reminds me of sadako’s buffs with willie

[@yeetmcskeet9533]

Hearing about Fredward in the wild is a mental flashbang

[@lande456]

I think, in addition to everything you've mentioned, trap killers aren't as visceral and likely don't sell as well as a result. Also I think it's hilarious that the "set and forget" playstyle was called out in the Skull Merchant nerfs because the whole counterplay against Xeno is "setting and forgetting" a turret.

[@NewSirenSong]

That's a gross oversimplification of xenomorph's counterplay

[@fabriziocossio]

​@NewSirenSong the same way "setting uo and forgetting" is a gross simplification of skull merchant power Funny how that works

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

You using Hex Girl audio for Hag is amazing, I've been waiting to see a content creator pair her with that song

[@R1z1n_ttv]

They may hate trap killer but I love them especially The Trapper with all my heart, the feeling of using my game knowledge to predict where survivors will go and having a trap I set 5 minutes ago winning me the game

[@dumblenutz5561]

I've said this before, but the DBD community is simply obsessed with high octane instant gratification killers. Everyone just wants to play Wesker, Chucky, Blight for those sweet dashes or killers like Huntress and Dracula for those snipes and trickshots. This has not only caused people to neglect strategic killers but also fundamentally misunderstand them; For instance in the many times where i argued about Skull Merchant not being that bad people often argued that she took no skill and acted as if "press m2 on loop" was her entire power and completely ignored her trapping aspect. Worse, they sometimes doubled down and pretty much implied trap killers as a whole take no skill. It's just sad, really. I often get people who say Knight doesn't take skill either, as if it doesnt take alot of gamesense to constantly keep track of where everyone is for crossmap snipes and to properly multitask to get value out of his power. Strategic killers simply are not welcome.

[@Nemesis-RE-3]

This is exactly it. No one seems to care about the killer if they can't make a flick that makes you feel tingles. Trap killers are more intelligent yet people are forced to play near braindead rush killere

[@nightshade6305]

To be fair Knights in a different category than Trap killers since he sorta just places his knights right on top of you. While it is hard to get knights on top of people, once you do there's not much a survivor can do besides try to abuse the broken ai for long enough to get the flag or just take the hit. Compared to trap killers where the trap was already placed before the survivor was targeted by it, and that you can look around to avoid them whenever possible.

[@dumblenutz5561]

@@nightshade6305 I'm aware, yes. I merely place them togueter in the "strategic killer" vein. I stand by my argument that he takes much gamesense and multitasking skill to get good value out of. I'd know, i've had matches where i fumbled and despite connecting guards constantly i still lost badly because i couldn't play well enough to get value out of the hunts. It takes more than just spamming ai.

[@zhadmina2214]

I remmeber a long time ago I asked people why they hated defnesiv/ trap killers, and the responses usually boiled down to "low chase interaction" and "requires coordination" I think when it comes to survivor gameplay, the only fun part is the chase. It's why the killers who are seen as the best designed are Wesker, Huntress, and Billy. These are killers whose powers revolve around being in chase, and giving survivors the opportunity to outplay them with mechanical skill. When we introduce trap killers (or killers with a high macro focus), the survivor experience moves away from being based on mechanical skill and more on strategy. The issue with this is that strategy, macro-focused games arent flashy, and flashy plays are the only way survivors get to interact with the game. Juking the killer is fun to survivors, holding m1 to watch a bar fill up is not. I have my biases against this line of thinking (proud Knight main). I think that trap killers deserve to be in the game, and I'm also someone who enjoys these battles of attrition when playing as or against them but I've been able to understand survivor frustration with these killers. I think the ultimate way to fix this, which is expensive, time consuming, and outside the realm of possibility, is a fundamental rework of survivor macro-game. Change how survivors complete generators, give survivors reasons to open chests, make boon perks worth running and reward survivors for taking time to engage with more of the trial. We've seen perks like Blastmine, Flashbang, and Chem Trap all have decent use because they're fun, and are focused on effecting various parts of the game both Macro-wise and Micro-wise. Give survivors a reason to engage with macro-elements, and the hate for macro-killers could decrease as a result

[@drakeford4860]

There's definitely something to this. Playing Trapper well takes a lot of forethought, game knowledge, and mental energy. Not everyone wants to devote that, when they can get similar results with other killers. Trapper can be strong, but it requires much more effort, and the only real payout is the knowledge that you outplayed the other guy. On the player side, you don't get to see any of that. Especially if you don't play killer, I can get why people feel getting caught in a trap hidden in a seemingly random patch of grass feels like BS. Meanwhile, a fully communicative crew with a level head can just be a massive pain to deal with, because you're playing an information war in a 4v1. I think a big issue always came down to the fact that DBD wasn't really designed for mic'ed survivor teams.

[@Mercurial42]

Babe wake up, Pixel Bush posted another hour-long video about killer design

[@Doncroft1]

"Why did I marry you?" - Babe

[@emilooplays]

I love hag so much and think she's very fun. However, I think she really sums up DBD's current meta of stomp or be stomped that we have begun to see emerge recently. She either has massive snowball potential and you end up with 3 people on hook at once, or all your tarps are being disarmed at once and suddenly your an 110, m1 killer who feels awful to play

[@coffeebreak7978]

i feel like the biggest issue is BHVR need to decide if the game is completive or a party game if its competitive they need to balance the game around the best players, around SWF or they need to say this is a party game and make changes based on what's feels more fun to do, doing both leaves times where your playing your 5th game in a row against X map because it has a huge advantage for one side but were gutting X mechanic because poeple don't like dealing with it.

[@iXSIKOBOIXi]

Someone I play with regularly will still refuse to play against Skull Merchant

[@BasementDweller_]

Would recommend playing Hag. She’s very fun to play against and as. Playing hag is like setting up dominos. It’s so satisfying seeing a whole team fall down.

[@gummypeachrings]

@@BasementDweller_ I agree

[@BouncingTribbles]

I hate everything about her other than her power so I can't play her.

[@smellyeggrolls21]

I love chag

[@fluffybum204]

i used to main hag, I only stopped because I took a break from the game for like 3 months, forgot how to play her, and just never got back into her because dredge and singularity exist

[@vengeance6801]

She absolutely is not fun to go against

[@0ttomatic]

This is not just a DBD issue. The trapper archetype is generally disliked in almost every PVP game it exists in because their dominant strategy is to limit the opponent's agency. When you have a character who has an ability made to force choices and limit options (Condition 1) and that is their primary or only source of strength (Condition 3), their gameplay generally evolves to trying to limit the opponent's options as much as possible to force them to make the decisions you want them to. A trapper character's agency comes from the denial of the agency of their opponent and, just like with stuns or lockout abilities, people usually don't like when they don't get to interact with the game or its systems. Even if a trapper character is only slightly above average, the player base will likely see them as dominant because it feels like there isn't much they can do against a trapper character (even if that took a long time and a lot of effort for the trapper to set up), which is by design. This makes trappers harder to balance because not only do developers have to take into account their actual statistics but also generally negative sentiments from people playing against them. The fate of a trapper is to be strong and despised (Steve from SSBU) or weak and middling (Trapper from DbD).

[@laputanmachine7033]

I always loved the idea of the Skull Merchant. A tracker hunting you down with a web of surveillance making it so there is truly nowhere to hide. They messed the poor girl up so badly. I hope they get their act together someday and make her fun again. Hopefully Freddy’s rework makes him finally playable too, poor Freddy has been kicked in the corner for so long.

[@RainIsVibin]

My personal favorite part of Trapper is when people are mad about it, despite his lacking power. I'll never not think about a survivor telling me "My traps did more than I did." Like... Yeah? That's the point? Are you okay?

[@JCglitchmaster]

7:25 Off topic alittle but Sadako is now currently in a worse spot than she was in 1.0 when talking about playing vs good survivors. Her viability now entirely hinges on survivors not fully understanding her power.

[@thegoldbussy]

Yeah I've been saying this as a main of her since day 1. The rework she got in January this year put her ability to be a threat in the survivors hands completely. If they interact with her power, she just doesn't have one. It's incredibly frustrating.

[@AzureRoxe]

Devs: We keep making trapping Killers while not bothering with them. Also Devs: We just made another "AI Companion" Killer knowing that the previous ones we've made are still pretty buggy.

[@Jibblies]

I still think it’s pretty funny one of the last times trapper got meaningfully buffed was when Naughty bear came out.

[@nightshade6305]

Idk if its just me but I feel like Unknown is just Hag with a gun. They can both teleport map wide, their teleports get removed by a survivor interaction and you have to set them up strategically. The main difference is that Unknown can do it on demand while Hag can only do it when her traps are detonated.

[@sandwich4763]

Kinda cool that this means that we have a killer who sets up traps who is also popular.

[@CodeHerbaon2.0]

Trapper - Face of the game, yet has always been the worst killer Hag - schrodinger C(at) tier killer SM - Schrodinger’s D(tier)C Killer Its kinda crazy how survivors (for my safety I also play survivor I just prefer killer) refuse to participate in any other gameplay that isn’t a chase power killer. Every survivor game I play against the trap killers feel like they have the most DC’s or Giving up on hook bc people can’t be bothered to learn their counterplay bc they’ve been brainrotted by the thousand chase utility killers the game has.

[@redman0027]

We claim killers like trapper are the worst, but across all MMRs is that true? I have a feeling that trapper stomps on new players, and I don't know about you but I have played against so few hags that most randoms I play with don't know you can disable her traps which makes her crazy strong against unhooks.

[@Maitapa1]

Removing all of these killers would be optimal thing to do. Keep Trapper, but rename him to Rapper and instead of traps he disses the survivors with ranged attacks.

[@NewSirenSong]

10/10 would love to see that

[@SaramatheUnchained]

I think the best way to make Trapper work is to give him Trap tokens, rather than having him individually pick up and drop off traps. You start with 5 tokens, and everytime you want to place down a trap, you lose a token. The kicker is that the entity de-spawns the trap after it was triggered, and you regain a token. You can also pick up a trap to manually regain the token. The best comparison I can think of this is, is similar to Hag or Demo, where you have a resource you pull from, and regain said resource after survivors interact with it

[@SoutaCherry]

Trapper COULD be crazy strong if they made more maps friendly to him. Then again, it’s not uncommon for the devs to make the maps harder or easier to play depending on whether you’re playing survivor or a specific killer

[@clemon69]

I tested that static line bug with my friend and we established that in order to trigger it these actions have to be taken: - survivor has disarm the drone - merchant has to call that hacked drone back - merchant has to deploy the drone in close proximity to where the hacked drone was Doing that i managed to consistently get drones to bug out and not move. Despite everything sometimes the bug just wont occur and I'm not sure why tbh. My theory is that the survivor cant be too close/far from the hacking spot after hacking the drone but I'm literally guessing lmao

[@Unending_Joy]

justice for skull merchant

[@geronimoalonso6538]

No?

[@Ms_desolated]

@@geronimoalonso6538yes

[@stinkstiefel_92]

yes!​@@geronimoalonso6538

[@1800mexicano]

The gummy guy's take on base kit rag for hag was wild imo "I think giving hag the option to manually tp on a cool down IF they want changes her core identity and if they did that I would rather play Larry." That's the take of all time.

[@NewSirenSong]

It's unbelievablely based, hag is already really good, buffing her basekit is unnecessary

[@Kanuui-]

I haven't seen the video yet but I think I have the answer. Normal chase killers only give you stress as a survivor when they are chasing you. Trap killers on the other hand cause you to be in constant stress, all the time. It is why trapper is my most hated killer to go against despite how weak he is. I hate being stressed out when I am stepping on grass and walking around all the time looking for traps feels awful.

[@ciguatera780]

i have to be mentally present when playing the game no way...

[@Dreigonix]

This is why I like trap killers and wish they were better. As killer, I want to be able to make people scared and stressed in, y’know, this HORROR GAME.

[@Kanuui-]

@@ciguatera780 And yet, nobody plays a video game to be even more stressed out than when they started playing the game. Stress and difficulty are two different things and dead by daylight is the former in many cases, trap killers simply being one example of that.

[@ciguatera780]

@@Kanuui- i'm sorry but this sounds like a skill issue

[@iheartblock3792]

@@ciguatera780most people play dbd casually, so yeah

[@D.m0nio]

I did not expect a reference to The substance in a dbd video but I'm here for it

[@PixelBush]

You must be new here.

[@D.m0nio]

@@PixelBush I am, hi!

[@PixelBush]

@@D.m0nio pleasure to have you!

[@EasyontheYees]

Adriana get up from the floor 😭 In all seriousness, I really hope they genuinely put some heart into her changes or take notes from the pros. I've "adjusted" to her new iteration (and many bugs) and really want to feel lethal and rewarded at the same time again, like how her lore makes her to be. I love your ideas, and have even had my own iterations about a "New" Skull Merchant, because I care and love her playstyle and design so much! My first time playing her when I got back into dbd late last year after like, a year of not playing it or exposure to the game at all. Maybe a month after her rework to scan lines and a more chase oriented power. I bought her on a whim, seeing the slay business woman she is, and when I saw your guide, that's when I fell in Iove with her and her lore and design!

[@majrgaming2633]

I just don’t understand why Hag is still 110 and I hate it whenever I play as her, we have Unknown who has a better teleport and ranged attack that’s 115, Singularity is 115 and he does what Hag does way better, like there is legit no reason for her not to be 115 atp, either that or she should be able to teleport to her traps whenever she wants, cuz atp she’s a map control killer with no map pressure other then camping, which still has counterplay

[@sandwich4763]

I always figured it was because making Hag a 115 killer would make Trapper completely obsolete. Admittedly, that's not a good reason...

[@SableNiijima]

Really good video, Pixel! Also thank you for the stuff you made about Skull merchant. Ive had an itch to play her lately cause of you and ive genuinely had a fun time playing her. Much love to you, man ❤

[@TravelerAvi]

Same thing here! Ha. ^^❤

[@raijinwolf2248]

I thought the problem with Trapper was obvious: He was developed when the psychology behind gameplay was solely to cultivate tense moments of running and hiding. Looping didn't exist when the game was being developed, it didn't exist at launch either; the community discovered it and then every subsequent gameplay choice was made with that in mind. It's like Wavedashing in Melee, unintended, but undoubtedly the way the game's psychology has been grounded on.

[@gremlinwc8996]

On a long ass Thanksgiving roadtrip, ty for posting something I can really sick my teeth into on my way there :)

[@PixelBush]

Hope it'll be worth the time :)

[@gremlinwc8996]

​@PixelBush it was, ty man and good video. Btw, just wanted to say that I love your content in general. I love lore and stories, so seeing you go in depth and really care about and connect a lot of lore for a game where a lot of people neglect it is really appreciated and cool. Keep bein you :)

[@urnow2986]

I am not gonna not to be able to see/play Larry glowing in overdrive and not hear the star power music now, so thanks for that.

[@andrewmcnally5013]

I am *SO DONE* with versing Hillbilly and Blight everywhere. I want DbD to go back towards a slow, methodical hunt of a killer. I want there to be a predator and prey dynamic. And if Pixel thinks he's a bigger Billy hater than me, he's dreaming!

[@jadedkratos5528]

It would be nice if the Devs would implement a way that Trapper could rearm his traps without having to do it manually. If only the Devs could let you rearm the traps by interacting with a locker

[@gummypeachrings]

Hag.

[@PixelBush]

TRUE

[@Brawlatron]

Hag.

[@FFKonoko]

In this house, hag love

[@Doncroft1]

Hag.

[@Xhumed]

Fascist

[@drakeford4860]

I usually have great success with Trapper even in high red-ranks. Obviously intelligent trap placement is a big part of that, but I think the greater success really comes from just solid mastery of the basic chase mechanics and knowing when to chase a down and when you're at risk of tunneling to your detriment. I've found that letting people walk away wounded more often than not tends to serve you better than really chasing one down in particular, as loose roaming combines well with traps to provide a lot of broad map pressure and force mistakes. I think it definitely demands more from the player than many other killers, and I can see why the general consensus is not exactly positive, but I have a good time with it nonetheless.

[@Nemesis-RE-3]

Its not his skill, it's his opponents messing up. You can have God tier traps but they don't do anything against smart players

[@drakeford4860]

@WilliamAfton1946 Eh, like I said, I frequently have very solid success even in high-end red ranks. Sure, mic'd and coordinated 4 stacks can be challenging, but that's true for any killer. The pace of the game as a whole is often determined more by the quality of survivors in the first place, I think. Even then, though, I tend to perform far better than everyone griping about how terrible he is seem to expect. Outside of a whiteroom, mistakes happen, and they happen more often with the appropriate application of pressure. The deciding factor is often your ability to capitalize on those mistakes, which varies based on everything from personal skill to RNG. I know my experience is anecdotal rather than statistical, but I can't change it. I'm not saying that Trapper is the best or even great (he certainly isn't and never has been), but I don't believe he's the borderline train wreck people make him out to be. That just doesn't mesh with my own experience.

[@Nemesis-RE-3]

@drakeford4860 dude he doesn't even get deep wounds when trapping am injured person.

[@whenthesunexplodeswealldie280]

@@drakeford4860 ranks haven't meant anything for a long time, not sure why you keep bringing it up like having success in red ranks implies you're skilled

[@professorwizard8916]

Maybe Trapper could hide his traps. Either as an action on addon you could make the traps harder to see. Maybe not invisible but only visible when you're right next to it. Would help on maps with no grass

[@eclipsedarksouls6036]

You wanna know my wild crazy absurd idea to buff trapper. At the start of the map he get's 2 traps already set up at window (shack excluded) and two traps set up at a pallet (shack excluded) and to mitigate rng one of each set spawns near the edge of the map, and the other spawns near the center of the map

[@floresdeserti]

I found it very interesting how you came to your conclusion on what is or isn't a trap killer. It's ironic because those are the only 3 I count as trap killers and I hate playing against all three. But I still find it upsetting that they're so weak. It really does suck how these three are treated. It's kind of like they don't actually want anyone playing them.

[@SLKibara]

"Would it kill you to look at the ground once in a while?" Is my thoughts whenever I play against a Trap killer. I would argue trap killers are amongst the most easiest to counterplay killers in the entire game if you HAVE EYES and your monitor is turned on. I never have issues with Trapper as long as I am vigilant with where I am running towards. So many people seems to think that just because a trap killer... You know.. Traps a loop. It's "bad game design" when really it's just them not willing to adapt to the killer they're facing. If you cannot do that as a survivor, you shouldnt be playing DBD period.

[@Unit1139]

It’s sad that we don’t get trap killers even yearly. I hate that the slower killers are often hated because nobody likes going against Trapper, Hag or even the now Freddy friend Skull merchant. I’ve gotten so much hate for just playing these killers as survivors say they don’t take skill, when in reality you need Map knowledge, game knowledge, Macro knowledge, Survivor movement, looping, Gen placements, and that’s not even counting perks or add ons. Been playing this game for 7 years and nothing is more satisfying than catching a survivor in a bear trap. Survivors call traps lazy and free hits/hooks, however some survivors don’t even check vaults or loops for traps and get mad they blindly vaulted a window against a trapper and got caught. Also if Hag had an actual pick rate, she’d be the next killer nerf akin to skull merchant. Good video mate👍

[@stevebear6295]

You clearly lack skill due to making survivors think instead of just atuopiolting around . Rude

[@captainpancakes1893]

I agree with everything you say, but thats not gonna stop me from running padded jaws regularly. Honing stone as well if im feeling spicy. Yes they do stack which is funny as hell

[@IkatakoMagalaEN]

54:26 Thing is, Hag already lost her identity. To a collab killer... Demogorgon. He freely places portals that he can use to teleport around the map and also doubles as " Hag Traps" because they have prox sensors that detect survivors. On top of that hes the godfather of Mid Range Zoners. So I personally think the Identity point is mute, most modern killers borrowed from older ones

[@Ravenlorn]

As a Hag player, I even avoid the "teleport range increase" addons because I feel they cheapen the killer for me. My favorite part of Hag is taking those few seconds at the start of a match to go "Okay, WHERE will I win this game?". I want to be the spider. I want to spin my web. With purpose. I want survivors scared of stepping onto MY turf. I also LOVE playing AGAINST Hag. She's my favorite killer to go against. The strategy of knowing where the danger is, where safety is... Allowing her to make the whole map her web removes the absolute best part about Hag, I'm sorry. Is it frustrating when survivors know what they're doing and constantly run out of your web to reset? Eh. To most, yes. That's why they don't play the killer. To me? No. Hag is the only killer in the game where I love to lose. Because every loss with Hag feels like it happened because my opponents knew what they needed to do, and did it. Sometimes, knowing what to do is all it takes to beat Hag, as Gummy says. And I get how that makes you feel powerless as Hag but. This is DBD we're talking about. I'd argue Hag's ability to win or lose based only on who has better game knowledge is MILES above the general determining factor.. which is just.. RNG. At least, as Hag, I never load into a map and go "Well, guess I lose". If I load into Badham as Trapper then lol, I'm screwed. For Hag, NOTHING MATTERS. No map, no set up, nothing the game just SPAWNS is gonna beat me. It's always GOTTA be the PLAYERS on the other end. And I love Hag for that.

[@ambershangout7226]

I always thought it weird trapper is called trapper when his only trap is a cluster of bear traps that are barely hidden at best.

[@MonkiSock]

I do totally agree with this and points out one huge glaring issue which i have been saying for years now - BHVR do NOT play their own game and by this i mean on the actual servers with real players. They play in their own special sandbox where everything to 100% perfect and with rose tinted glasses. Every single time they play with actual gamers - like the fog whisperers on special games etc they get royally pounded on and its very clear they dont actually have the skill int he game that actual players have and they purely rely on stats and players complaints to try and make changes. Until BHVR have people who actually play the game properly and have their voices herd more on BOTH side the game will never be balanced in a way that is actually based on real game play and not just the top 5% of fog whisperers and the loudest whining players on Twitter

[@atinybard6594]

Based Evan: 1. Start with all traps 2. No carry limit (up to the add on max of 5) 3. Traps default to the base color of the map you're playing on. (Ormond = white blue, Eerie = Sand, ect.) Once every 60 seconds Evan can select a distant trap using the alt power button and the entity returns the targeted trap to his inventory (EG same as the skull merchant recalling a drone).

[@irontarkus6515]

An hour? Hot damn this is gonna be good.

[@protosist]

I have another idea for bringing back the stealth mode of the drones. I would want it to be the old stealth mode drone, with 2 scanning lines. Once the drone scans its first survivor it goes into active mode with the scan line that scanned the survivor.

[@JaeEunA]

Love the fighting game analogies for this analysis. I grew up on fighters like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter, so I always end up looking at characters through the lens of those tools, and I’ve always flocked to any character that can give me traps. I’ve never been able to truly connect with a DBD killer because none really fit the trapper archetype while also playing the game well.

[@Isaac_646]

A lot of the issues with Trapper are that his add ons all have flaws to them. Oily coil reveals auras while resetting the bear trap, so when you finish setting it, you won't see anyones aura. Honing stone only applies to survivors who free themselves from traps, so if a teammate frees them, they won't be put into dying state. Tension spring only rearms traps if a survivor steps into the trap. Its so raw, ugh.

[@ninjahedgehog5]

To add to the opening thesis, I've always believed the Knight is the final product of what the legion was originally intended to be.

[@Cloudsofsand]

The fandom killed Skull Merchant. I actually really enjoyed playing her but survivors complained too much.

[@EdgarSIN-z2b]

It's in my opinion a skill issue. Skull mommy is super easy to deal with and if you still suck against her, that's on you. I agree with you, since I really love playing skull mommy

[@333Abs]

Releasing a killer in such a bad way will harm them forever unfortunately as people’s first impressions matter a lot

[@Tomtommy31]

Complained too much? Being able to hold a survivor team hostage for the full match timer is not ok.

[@ainsley1073]

@@Tomtommy31they fixed that literally a year or two ago, read the patch notes bruh

[@dusty0559]

Trapper traps should just reset by themselves after a few minutes. Basically iri stone, but with an audio cue for survivors, so they can leave a loop before a trap resets. Would make trapper so much more fun to play because you don't have to actively maintain your traps. Also, all traps should start set, just for shits and giggles. Edit: I actually wrote this before I got to your segment on trapper buffs. Glad to see were basically on the same page xD

[@PsiandXenos]

I think other things that could help trapper if we can have him start with all his traps is to have the random traps on the map start opened. Another thing they could do instead is to make him a locker killer where he can reload his traps from them which would delete the oldest traps set if the amount set would exceed his refill. Although I don't think we'll ever get any decent changes for trapper, because he's probably a load bearing killer that holds the game up and if they did a significant change it would just break everything.

[@gamescape7758]

My favorite thing when merchant came out was to go to lerys and set a bunch of drones out and just walk around undetectable to jump scare survivors. I didnt care about gens i was just having fun. Haven't played her since she got changed

[@durotan5245]

There is nothing I love more than a video about dbd that’s over an hour. Thank you for this.

[@bluephantomfoxy3372]

Here’s a good way to buff trapper to C possibly B tier without changing him: allow him to toss a trap anywhere from 3M-8M in front of him, then the trap enters an “arming” state where it makes a loud ticking noise as it preps to arm itself and takes around 3 seconds to fully arm, making a loud snap as if someone triggered the trap but different to tell the difference. This would save him the time of manually setting the trap and give him enough pressure to zone survivors similar to an Artist crow, without changing him so much that he is no longer the “baby” killer that BHVR wants him to be. Of course you would adjust the add ons accordingly

[@jthepangon]

Vars and Pixel Brush lowkey colabing wasn't on my list but I'm all for it

[@Polygonlin]

Which sucks, cause i LOVE Trap Killers. in Friday the 13th i had a BLAST setting Traps as Jason "Mostly Part 3 or 4 Jason" And in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, playing as The Hitchhiker is a TON of fun as well! i just wish he had 6 Traps instead of 3. or at the very least could make more on the fly, so you didn't need to go back and collect traps. AND of COURSE, The Trapper in DBD is a TON OF FUN AS WELL! well... ok, he WAS. back when the game was new. now with so much Meta? it's not the same by a mile.

[@Randomneme]

This video was beautiful to listen to my boi trapper needs to be be decent and it eould be nice to seeing these trap killers feel oh so good for that feeling of placing a extremely good trap ( main reason I lobe trapper/trap style killers pls more of these ) also I think to help trapper a bit is making injured survivors go into the dying state as a bit of slow down, snowballing potential and making your traps feel good and make sense. Awesome video Mr. Bush hope you have an amazing day in the fog.

[@mazm851]

I was just looking for a long video for good background noise to my dbd 2v8 lobbys (waiting for match simulator)

[@jonathanflood4545]

I love the trapper, hes my first love, not only is he weak, but they also changed his mask which i miss. I still workout out carrying people for haunted houses and i have his OG mask (spent $250 so its high quality) i will always play him no matter what, even against SWF that are toxic

[@Frank_West]

This video was really cool. One of my favorite on the channel. Crazy since it's not even a build video.

[@ericbotondbatternay8452]

Never would've expected to see Vars referenced by Pixel Bush

[@oZzYzzzZZz]

i think i have a few ideas too for them, since the killers that have traps rely HEAVILY on them to apply pressure but also paranoia, it should be more powerful and more efficient for trapper: i saw this one and i got an idea by it in another video, they could make a buff where his traps are designed to blend in with the map, ex: Lery's memorial, a more metallic, less dirty color and texture that fits both the tiles and the metal floor in the middle of the map. i could also possibly suggest since his traps are meant to catch the survivors and are not supposed to be stopped, the harassing survivor's aura who deactivate his traps should have killer instinct, and the survivor who steps in his traps should be punished, without the need for add-ons, the survivor should have an effect of hindered, incapacitated, or deep wounded. deactivating the traps should also have minigames/skill checks that punish the survivors if they fail, maybe stepping into the trap or something. he shouldn't be able to set traps in a radius of hooked survivors, the only changes are that it's harder for the survivors to harass him and also be punished, it keeps the simplicity of the tutorial/basic killer while also still being viable to be used for hag: the buffs and reworks in the video were ok and with the mint rag idk, but it could have another buff. a small buff that makes an extremely huge change is that it doesn't disappear/dematerialize after being activated, and only goes away once it gets triggered 2-3 times, or if a survivor wipes it away. it allows for more decent map traversal and pressure, and also being able to trick survivors. and also another small buff, since the survivors are supposed to be punished for triggering the traps, they should scream and have (like trapper) killer instinct as they trigger it so you can utilize the traps better, and also ward away the harassers more, like trapper's, they should add a minigame to her traps and automatically trigger it if the survivor who's wiping it away fails, and also make it slower to wipe away her traps. and like the trapper (sorry theyre really similar in power), her traps shouldn't be able to be teleported to but only be triggered and show the hag's figure when near a hooked survivor, since it incentivizes using the traps during chase or to defend objectives for skull merchant: the rework is coming up, so it really doesn't matter. her drones should be able to be utilized more and not be so overpowered. basically, what he said, the drones in stealth mode shouldn't be able to move. but i think they could provide another buff to that. while the drones are in stealth mode and are not moving, the lines and the beam should disappear entirely, but have a larger size so it acts more like a barrier. however, when the drones are moving, the lines and beams reappear again, except less larger. bc her power is all about defending important objectives while also defending large areas and shouldn't be as used as much in chases and not like the other trap killers, it should honestly spin faster and harder minigames when near an objective (not the exit gates) they could also maybe make it so that the beams spin faster when the killer isn't in chase, but when the killer is in chase near that drone it spins slower. they should maybe replace that with a smaller hinder effect for less time, but also add an incapacitated effect. i don't play these types of killers as much, so idk what im talking about most of the time here

[@JimmyJams_2113]

I wish trapped changed in one of these ways. Either traps start ready and you can have a max of 20 traps down. You can grab more from lockers then when you put the 21st it removes the 1st trap starting from the furthest from your location Or Trapper had diffrent traps to place down and they had diffrent stuff. And you could switch between. Maybe a door way net. Make it so when a player runs through it. The trap activates and slows the players down to half speed/what speed makes it balanced. A pallet trap that makes it so when you drop the pallet it either breaks apon dropping or maybe it's glue and when it's dropped the player is stuck to it for a couple seconds unless hit or killer breaks the pallet. Or having a shining trap that just knocks players down for 3 seconds that they can get back up from without taking damage. But that trap is a lot more hidden than his bear traps. Maybe even a trap in the generators where after being kicked you can put a whistle in it. Where a player working on it gets a great skill check it makes a loud noice.

[@cartterbeane9448]

I’m going to stay a trap killer main I love setting up and them working to my advantage I love making a known map into a unknown one I love playing rapper in particular

[@Dhampire1976]

Honestly after playing 2v8 and getting nonestop trappers,I can kinda see why BHVR is hesitant on trapper and buffing him. It's annoying to have to worry about what is on the ground wherever you run to in pre-emptively searching for traps around loops and pallets/vaults just so you don't get fucked in the ass by a random trap under a vault or a patch of grass you couldn't see it in. I would like them to refine and improve trapper and the entire concept further though. Just giving my two senses on why maybe BHVR would be hesitant/reluctant. He's one of two buffs away from becoming unbelievably annoying and miserable to face

[@muhammadyusfarizky711]

yup, they really need to make it so trapper sets his trap much faster than survivor disabling it. If having the carry limit removed is too much, at least let trapper carry half of his total traps.

[@ChannelYumYum]

Hag is one of my most played Killers (big macro gameplay enjoyer), so this is a greatly appreciated video essay addressing many of the same issues I have with how BHVR approaches trap Killers. I like most of your Killer suggestions, including Mint Rag basekit. I disagree with Gummy it would ruin her identity, as I feel it wouldn't change her core gameplay loop significantly, and simply be another tool to use. It has a long cooldown as well, so it would be a small portion of her gameplay, and add more skill expression in the form of planning ahead with trap placement and areas of the map you want to control. If I'm wrong, and it does feel too similar to HUX/Unknown, then the functionality can be changed to better suit Hag. I quite enjoyed Skull Merchant's current design, before the brutal nerfs. She was a breath of fresh air to me, being a trap Killer, but approaching the concept differently by making her power not rely almost exclusively on Survivor mistakes. While she does need a lot of polish now, her design potential gives me hope that they can design a trap Killer suitable for modern DbD if they genuinely listen to the years of amazing feedback for her (and the other Killers).

[@Zenzei842]

55:23 “hag is not my killer, and twisting her around to fit what I want should not come at the cost of those who like her the way she is” what a great way to phrase it! Skully haters need to take notes on this and realize them not liking something does not mean it needs to get nerfed 😭

[@zaza7499]

Nah that legion insult @31:10 was so accurate it gave me deep wounds😂

[@violentviolet8544]

As someone who has mained Hag since she released, I can say that mint rag is my least favourite addon, and the change to base kit would just screw with my muscle memory. When I'm playing her, my thumb is always tapping the teleport key so I can be there the moment they trigger it, as my own reaction time is kind of slow. Mint rag screws that up as if you're spamming with it, you're gonna accidentally find yourself in another continent when you don't mean to. Plus, I feel mint rag encourages you to set traps where survivors don't go in order to preserve your traps to use as you please, but for normal hag, you need to be setting them in high traffic areas, you need to learn where people step.

[@evanhenry7630]

I agree with your suggestion for Hag, but I would tweak it. She should have the same amount of traps, but split into two, half are “scout traps”, the other half are regular traps. Both would trigger the same animation, so survivors would be on edge of wether they’re revealed, or if Hag is about to teleport to them. Then thirdly your traps build a meter, after successively “snaring” enough survivors with your traps, you gain one use of the “anywhere” teleport you suggested, but it is a hidden trap, that is non-removable. Also my change for Trapper, would be simply keep him as is, but give him a “Doctor-Esq” second ability. Where say once every three minutes, he can throw a trap a short distance. He would only get one, and it would stay on the map for a minute, before auto returning to him. If the thrown trap snares a target, it goes on normal three minute cooldown instead. The extra “throw trap”, doesn’t count towards his total traps, and can’t be disarmed for it’s duration. I feel both of these changes would be fine, as there are already killers with multiple abilities. It would also be more lore accurate to their characters unsure why behaviour hates their own lore so much, as to ignore it so often. Hag’s tells of her using multiple hexs, not just one, and a guy with the best name ever made (Evan) isn’t much of a “trapper”, with only one type of trap, he should have an array. These are just my “pointless” suggestions though.

[@crazypuppet919]

also. BHVR apparently don't have the balls to give Myers 115 speed in Tier1. So I really doubt we will ever see a day when Hag will become 115

[@chaosflash912]

God I wish I had the chance to speak my two cents on my main Trapper in this video: I'm P100 and have been playing since 2018.

[@familiabmp9103]

1:37 that trap can be fast vaulted from the other side.

[@firelinksshrine1695]

"Don't main trapper" -evil otz

[@Tacoberry01]

Could you make a video putting killers into categories (only like 4-5 categories) such as Trap Killers, Projectile Killers, Instant Down Killers, Stealth Killers, and Movement Killers, perhaps even Teleportation Killers. Thankyou!

[@douglasrebelato]

As a Skull Merchant player, i can't agree more with this rework suggestion, i loved to play stealth/trap merchant and the only way i can try to replicate it, is with that one Unknown perk that puts my Terror radios in a gen. I've been getting 3 to 4 deaths per match like this, but the rotation bug has been.. a MAJOR detriment. Also, since survivors haven't really learned the vault immunity, that aspect have been under 'control'.

[@MrBlueWaooWaoo]

I like trapper so much that I now look for the closest thing I can do to a "trapping" playstyle in every game I play Justice for trap killers

[@Skarfar90]

I wonder how Skull Merchant would have fared, if they kept her original kit, but only nerfing the gen-kick and its associated perks. It felt wrong playing her after the first major rework (7.3.0), since she got many of her previous add-ons "for free" with the reworked kit, so that she got objectively stronger for no reason at all.

[@crazypuppet919]

I really think that keeping Trapper weak cause he is new player killer is dumb. We have Wraith and Huntress, they are also easy but not dogshit. We have Billy and Nurse from the start, and I would argue that they are hard to start the game with. We have two simple but decent killers and two hard killers from the start. And new player can choose any of them to start. So I don't get why this argument works with Trapper. And also thing that I think makes Trapper weaker is that two others trap killers and to extend Freddy and Singularity can remotely interact with their traps. Either through recalling it back (SM and Larry) or through recycling it (Hag and Freddy) But Trapper needs to travel to them, even if we remove the limit of carrying them. But since it's just a beartraps you can't "logically" interact with them at distance. But he need to do it in some way to not be that slow. MAYBE as first killer he could just ask the entity to destroy any trap he point at, and then he could get it back in lockers. Or smth like that.

[@mysticfaint]

My personal thought on it is that trap killers are almost impossible to balance properly because of SWF and solo queue. As a Trapper main, it's a 50/50 that I either stomp or get stomped, never do I get a "fair and even" match. Making trap killers strong will make them usable against a strong SWF, but absolutely nuclear to solo queue. I've seen many balance ideas for Trapper or even Hag, and even though they're either slight buffs or tweaks, they'd make them so damn difficult to play against solo or if you don't know every in and out on the killers.

[@nadroji6549]

I would love to see more Trap Killers added to DBD for more variety in Killer playstyles. Plus it would help shine a lot on an otherwise abandoned category of Killer, & maybe give us an actually good Trap Killer (aside from Hag).

[@ShoebillSven]

On a similar note to hag being so unique, I feel the same for xenomorph. Not the killer itself, but the playstyle of a sort of reverse trapper killer. Idc what they do to the killer themselves if they ever decide to rework it, but xenomorphs unique aspect (that no other killer has quite like them) should never be touched

[@koi9826]

ive always wanted a killer that can set tripwires

[@mayac69]

You forgot my favorite trap killer, tablet Plague.

[@Wesker233]

Hi, simple question do you think in the future we can buy the mask of frank stone without the deluxe edition of the game?

[@ravecat]

always feels like they would rather us use drones in chase on loops than on actually clever spots, which is insane because thats the most annoying thing about sm is shutting down loops and holding w

[@avocadothecat]

Can't say I am sad that the unfun playstyles are finally being weeded out one by one. I do think the fun ones should get rewarded though. Can't have the whip without the honey bread. Also you are soley responsible for me to feel sympathy for Skully. Cause you are right. I didn't mind her after the 3 gen rework - but now I actively wish her to get good. I am a Wesker main btw, but I used to main Hag. Maybe if they change her a little I'd find my love again. The proposed changes sound great

[@JaydeThompson-ri4eb]

I hate trap killers! Only because I’m the dumb survivor that runs into them! And I love playing Hag and Trapper, but they feel so weak I’m dreading their achievements. Though, I can improve by playing against them! Which can’t happen if they’re too weak to even pick.

[@Vulcan711]

Never thought I’d see Vars referenced in a dbd vid

[@BouncingTribbles]

It's never made sense to me that Trapper's bear traps didn't start set up on windows and pallets. Even if they weren't where you wanted them having a bunch of loops already trapped would make him so much more viable. The fact that they just sit there useless is the most obvious and glaring thing they could fix. Just start with them set up, even with the current random spawning that would still make him feel WAY better.

[@femtrapta5874]

I feel that BHVR are too scared to buff these trapping killers mainly because of solo queue. In a SWF, it's very easy to call out traps that are set up so your team can avoid them and disarm them later, but in solo queue, there's no sort of information you can give about them, and you'll end up losing time trying to run around and disarm then yourself, or leave them for poor Meg to fall into constantly.

[@fabriziocossio]

Whats worse is that the nerfs for skully didnt fix the problem of people killkng themself on hook againt hee Peolle atill rage quick Againt whata essentially a crippled child

[@HexJayBun]

That line at the end!!! "-the earth revolves around the sun and not, in fact me." It is such a raw fucking line that absolutely sent me, I hope they bring the "trapness" back into SM as I've loved playing every version of Skull Merchant (except the modern one where I've gone to Billy, Tiffany, and Xeno). I started as a trapper main, then a hag main, then a loyal skully main. I hope they fix her and bring her back in a new and strong way while maintaining that trapper blood. This video was amazing. Let's stay hopeful for the incoming rework!!! Much love!