WHY DID MR WICKHAM ‘ELOPE’ WITH LYDIA BENNET? Jane Austen PRIDE AND PREJUDICE character analysis

Jane Austen PRIDE AND PREJUDICE analysis | Why would Mr Wickham risk it all to elope with Lydia Bennet? In the words of Mr Gardiner, “His temptation is not adequate to the risk”, so why did Mr Wickham (who clearly intends to make his fortune through marriage) run off with Lydia Bennet? Character analysis of Mr Wickham, and discussion of the marriage between Wickham and Lydia, via an analysis & close reading of Jane Austen’s narrative in Pride and Prejudice.
WHY DID WICKHAM ELOPE WITH LYDIA | MR WICKHAM | LYDIA BENNET | LYDIA AND WICKHAM | WICKHAM AND LYDIA | MARRIAGE IN PRIDE AND PREJUDICE | MR WICKHAM CHARACTER ANALYSIS | JANE AUSTEN PRIDE AND PREJUDICE ANALYSIS
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[@DrOctaviaCox]

If you like the work I do, then you can support it here: www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=D8LSKGJP2NL4N Thank you for watching.

[@NanoGamingGamer]

Dr Cocks lol

[@martineshamzin7535]

You didn't answer the question...and Wickham DID NOT elope with her.He just went off with her for a little fun. HOW COULD HE POSSIBLY HAVE KNOWN DARCY would step in. He must have liked her. And if the Colonel really didn't trust Wickham, why is he still IN the regiment.

[@margueritelohrenz1692]

Is there a way to enhance the audio? Ican barely hear it.

[@fazalrafeek9066]

I love your deep analysis of this episode in the book. I have read the book 3 times and never thought about the reasons why Wickham should marry Lydia. Thanks Dr Octavia and by the way you are so cute

[@lorraineyang2271]

I always thought that Lizzy was too critical of Lydia, given that she was initially charmed by Wickham and only found out later through Darcy's letter that she had misjudged both men completely 🙄 thanks for the close attention you pay to the text though, and the tracing of the narrative

[@m.c.9419]

I think the hardest part of the book to read through was Lydia coming back to the family, facing them with absolutely no remorse, expecting happiness at her shallow elopement & marriage, AND acting like she was better than her other sisters. Her family was worried to death about her and Lydia almost single handily ruined the reputation of her whole family. I had to just brace through the cringe to get to the karma of the whole situation. They're stuck with each other, these two idiots, running place to place broke as hell and unhappy. I think it's perfect karma for Wickham.

[@Windjammers1]

I was reading this one article about that, and the writer posited the theory that Lydia had no remorse because she did exactly what her mother was always telling them to do -- get a husband. She knew her mother would be thrilled that one of her daughters had gotten married no matter how that marriage took place. Lydia would become the favorite child and most admired of her sisters, at least in her own mind.

[@dieterdelange9488]

The Wickhams probably ended up like the Prices (Fanny's parents) in MP: broke, in a dirty house, with Wickham constantly drunk/in debt and ten kids they can't afford. Bingley and Darcy, as his brothers-in-law, would (reluctantly) have to help out with money, as Sir Thomas helps the Prices. Imagine Austen wrote a sequel to P&P using the plot of MP: the Darcys and Bingleys each adopt a child from the Wickhams to help them out, and from there the drama unfolds.

[@sarahhopper8891]

Well, it’s important to remember that Lydia is both young- just 15 and stupid to boot. I sort of figured that part of the motive for Darcy buying Wickham’s commission into the army was to put him in the path of an errant cannonball. If not, it would certainly be a nice little ancillary benefit. Being married would make Lydia fairly respectable; a widow more respectable still.

[@sarahhopper8891]

@@Windjammers1 🛎️🛎️🛎️ Lydia is also one of Mrs. Bennett’s favorite children- Jane being the other by virtue of being prettiest. Lydia is certainly the most like Mrs. Bennet in terms of personality & temperament.

[@sarahhopper8891]

@@dieterdelange9488 See, I prefer to imagine that part of the reason for a buying Wickham into the army was to put him in the path of a stray cannonball.

[@elewysoffinchingefeld3066]

I had always imagined that Wickham dishonored Lydia in an attempt to ruin her whole family, thus making Darcy unable to marry Lizzie. Kind of a final 'screw you' to Darcy for denying him the marriage to Georgiana.

[@jenniferbrezler3742]

I thought along those lines as well

[@christinel.80]

If that were the case, would any sum of money from Darcy have been sufficient to persuade Wickham to marry Lydia?

[@TraceyHenley]

Whereas - it just occurred to me - that Wickham, being a shrewd character who makes his living reading other people so to fleece them, might be gambling that either Bingley would marry Jane (overcoming his friend’s & family’s opposition) or Darcy would marry Lizzie, Wickham realizing both men were more attracted than either had let on. Once married to Lydia, he’d have two sisters-in-law w/wealthy husbands, and twice the opportunity to scam $$ off the Bingleys and Darcys in perpetuity. A definite gamble, to be sure.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@TraceyHenley Honestly if he had that sort of ability to plan the long game, he would be better off than he was. I feel he's more an impulsive opportunist. He eloped with Lydia because he could, and maybe Lizzie hurt his pride a bit before he went away.

[@christycook7805]

I always thought he did it because he knew Darcy loved Lizzie and would help out her sister in any way he could. Wickham got a good commission out of it all.

[@soneil7745]

I always found it noteworthy that Mr. Wickham is so bad that Caroline Bingley goes out of her way to warn Elizabeth of what she's getting into. It's the one time Caroline is actually kind to one of the Bennets.

[@Thewitchybimbo]

Although Caroline didn’t like the Bennetts due to their societal ineptitude (specifically the mom) she did see Mr Darcy’s lil sister go through a horrible heartbreak; I’m sure she respected Elizabeth enough to not want her to go through that especially since for the Bennetts it would ruin them.

[@AkireMaru]

@@Thewitchybimbo did Darcy reveal to Caroline that his sister almost was seduced by Wickham? From the movie and Caroline’s seemingly insensitive comment within earshot of Georgiana, and Darcy’s lack of anger towards Caroline makes me believe it was a secret really under wraps and Caroline didn’t know. Given Wickham’s position, he would have never been the ideal match, so maybe others wouldn’t even suspect it. As for Caroline warning about Wickham, it seemed more in defense of Darcy and damage control for the man she fancied, as in stating that whatever you’ve heard from Wickham, disregard it and don’t spread rumors about Darcy. I doubt Caroline had a caring bone in her body with regards to her rival she looked down upon.

[@mish375]

​@@ThewitchybimboThe book reveals that Caroline didn't know about Georgiana and Wickham. But Darcy's cousin Colonel Fitzwilliam did. He mentions in his letter that if Lizzie wants someone to verify the account on Wickham's character, his cousin also knows the particulars.

[@edithengel2284]

@@Thewitchybimbo I think she only knew that Wickham had done something Darcy deeply disapproved of, not that it had anything to do with Georgiana. Darcy, as Austen points out, was especially careful to keep any connection of scandal to his sister from the Bingleys, as he hoped she would eventually marry Mr. Bingley. I think Caroline warned Elizabeth because even though Caroline disliked the Bennets, she didn't want Elizabeth to let the side down by associating with Wickham.

[@homegown1234]

I remember that noteworthy of Caroline Bingley to Elizabeth but she ignored her and wanted nothing to believe Caroline at all.

[@clyde2696]

The fact that teenagers essentially weren't allowed to make mistakes during the Regency era adds another layer of tragedy. Lydia's decision to run off with Wickham is everything we'd expect from a 16-year-old hopeless romantic. In this time period, however, Lydia's one mistake resulted in a life sentence. It was pretty much impossible to obtain a divorce in the 1800's. Even if the courts miraculously allowed it, Lydia might have never been allowed to legally remarry, and it's likely that she would have been socially ostracized. This makes Wickham all the more abhorrent. He didn't care that he was destroying a naïve teenager's life. He just wanted his immediate desires met.

[@onemercilessming1342]

Wickham also wanted to destroy Elizabeth and Darcy by "ruining" Lydia. Elizabeth couldn't marry Darcy, and Wickham was going to be able to extort money from somebody somehow--Darcy, if possible. The Church of England still operates much the same way today. Prince Charles was only allowed to marry Camilla and still become king because he was technically a widower. As a widower, he was allowed to remarry and could even marry a divorcee. Diana was expendable, you see. All that could have been avoided if the old bat Queen Mother had kept her puritanical nose out of Charles's love life, since she's the one who said Camilla was unsuitable as a wife for the future king.

[@samantha953]

That’s why parents or guardians were supposed to be involved in engagement and supervising courtships. Her parents dropped the ball many times with the younger girls. They were too immature to be out in society with the stakes so high.

[@onemercilessming1342]

@samantha953 I sometimes wonder if Mr. Bennet exerted himself enough for the older girls, Jane and Lizzie. But Mrs. Bennet's constant whining and fits of the vapors wore him down. He disengaged from the family except as titular head and for meals. Mary was a "bluestocking"--or she would have been with more intellectual curiosity and less moralizing. IMHO, he figured that, because the girls didn't have a large enough dowry to attract a ne'er-do-well and their village was far enough out of the way, they'd be safe enough until an appropriate suitor came along. Then, along comes Wickham and his army buddies and the vapid little airheads were off and running, with Lydia hot to trot.

[@carimacavan]

The concept of "teenager" was not really a "thing" until after 1950, starting in America and Rock and Roll music.

[@onemercilessming1342]

@carimacavan The "teenager" concept began to emerge with the "Bobby Soxers" who swooned over Frank Sinatra and spent time at the local drug store, downing Coca-Cola and malted milkshakes. Stockings were hard to come by, and my mother wore leg makeup, using an eyebrow pencil to draw a seam up the back of each of her legs. There were limitations, of course, due to the strictures of WWII, but the Big Bands were losing steam post WWII and by the days of American Bandstand emerging in the 1950s, teenager was fully a concept. I watched AB, in its Philadelphia days on WFIL, the Philly ABC affiliate, now called WPVI. Upon entering my teens in 1963, Elvis was losing ground to the Beatles and the Beach Boys. Teenagers were identified as a group separate from children and young adults. We had freedom, money, an expanding economy, and a future brighter than those who endured The Great Depression and WWII and the economic downturns of the American Economy of the late 1940s and into the 1950s.

[@ultramarinetoo]

Wickham is just as bad as we knew him to be after Darcy's revelation. The real brutality, of course, lies in the fact that however awful Wickham is, however little he cares for Lydia, and however unhappy she is destined to be as his wife, we know this is *nothing* compared to the misery society would have inflicted on her (and her family) should he have failed to marry her.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Excellent point. And awful too, of course. Exemplified, for instance, in Mr Collins's letter to Mr Bennet: "The death of your daughter would have been a blessing in comparison of this" (ch.48). The thinking of the Meryton gossips, upon hearing the news of the marriage, is chilling: "it would have been more for the advantage of conversation had Miss Lydia Bennet come upon the town; or, as the happiest alternative, been secluded from the world, in some distant farmhouse" (ch.50) . 'Come upon the town' means to become a prostitute. These would have been the likely alternatives for someone in Lydia's position.

[@Cotictimmy]

@@DrOctaviaCox I'd not noticed the expression 'Come upon the town' before. I get more out of the novels with each reading.

[@Grabfma040508]

Plus Lydia could of come home not married and pregnant . That would been the Ultimate Public humiliation

[@edennis3202]

@@Grabfma040508 I doubt that her father would have allowed Lydia to come home if she were unmarried and pregnant. The ruin of the entire family would have been certain. He probably would have had her shipped off to the continent to have her baby and had it taken from her at birth and perhaps left Lydia there in obscurity. But she couldn't have come home again unless they could cover up her pregnancy. Women were still going to Europe to have their illegitimate babies in the mid twentieth century. Loretta Young did that, going to Europe "on holiday" then pretended that she had adopted her child while she was there. The girl never knew that Ms. Young was her real mother until after Loretta had died.

[@annainspain5176]

@@DrOctaviaCox l thought "come upon the town" was like "coming upon the parish", that is being sent to the workhouse as destitute.

[@juliakay6204]

I’ve always thought Lydia was even more easy to manipulate because she thought Elizabeth was in love with Wickham. She would have been thrilled to steal him away.

[@jesskhan09]

That’s what o thought. She wanted to run it in lizzys face.

[@stephanien6237]

Yep. She is an example of the worst idiotic young woman stereotypes-she seems narcissistic and overtones of oppositional-defiant disorder in teens.

[@lilith3953]

100%

[@MandieTerrier]

Especially when she said, Isn't my husband handsome, Lizzy?

[@AziraSmith]

Yes, and she is so proud of herself for being the youngest and being married first. Like running away with a man who is then bribed to marry you to save your reputation is something to aspire to. Although I wonder if she ever really knows that Wickham has to be bribed. It’s been a while since I last read Pride and Prejudice and now I am curious to reread it and look at how much Lydia is truly a foolish naive girl and how much she is maybe in denial about the reality of the situation.

[@kyuniverse718]

The saddest thing about Lydia’s character for me is that although it caused her to hurt others, Lydia’s only “sin” was a tragic lack of intelligence and neglectful parents who allowed her to be vulnerable to older men at 16 years old. But, as was the case for women in those days, she would face the harshest punishment: A ruined reputation and a miserable marriage.

[@Beatmyguest001]

People have such a cruel and harsh reading on her. Someone in this very comment section used the work “skank” for goodness sake! I think she is very young, very spoiled and quite sheltered by her parents. She’s obviously the favoured by Mrs Bennet, who she is most alike to, and is a YOUNG teenager.

[@danieleprice191]

Mrs. Bennett had no reason to think ill of her daughter's marriage. She was rightly distressed at her leaving and in the dark about Wickham. She's pleased her daughter did both: came home and gotten married.

[@fauxgrace]

16 isn't a little girl then. Not uncommon to be married with children at that age. Lydia though quite adept at scheming didn't think things through. She's narrow dighted in that she wants what she wants regardless of the outcome. She wanted a soldier from day one and got it. Now, she'll find out just what 'until death do us part' means. Though having Darcy in the picture - they should do fine.

[@Ashbrash1998]

​@fauxgrace Just because she wasn't considered a kid back then doesn't mean she wasn't at all. The mindset is still very much the same even now, especially because her parents never raised her correctly. Especially thier mother, who so obsessed about wedding her daughters off, it's not surprising Lydia ran off the idea of that and marrying a "dashing soldier".

[@lexiburrows8127]

A 'miserable marriage' was the BEST outcome for her. No marriage at all and - as she was not even smart - her most likely outcome would have been to go into a Fancy-House just to survive, had some success early on due to her youth and beauty then fallen down the ranks as she aged. As she was not clever, she would have most probably ended up as a middle-aged woman of the 'unfortunate class.'

[@janedoll3237]

Realistically, Lydia was extremely close to being sex trafficked. If he decided to run off and ditch her, than she might not have been able to get back to her family and friends. Especially considering how they ran through money. She was in an extremely vulnerable situation. It’s strange that more people don’t sympathize with her. I think it might be because she was never distressed? She never really realized how close she was to danger. I mean her family didn’t even know where she was to protect her. The didn’t even know if she was alive.

[@dtulip1]

Not really she was an the road to being an "actress"

[@ritan2]

I think you make a good point. Lydia was in far more danger than she ever seems aware of. Even after weeks together with Wickham no marriage on the horizon and not even being in a place where a legal marriage could take place, Lydia still clings to the delusion that Wickham intends to marry her. But in his conversations with Darcy, Wickham clearly states that marriage to Lydia "had never been his design" and that he "still cherished the hope of more effectually making his fortune by marriage in some other country." And even after her family had to bribe Wickham to marry her, she seems oblivious to not only the danger to herself, but the damage to her family. "Their sister’s wedding day arrived; and Jane and Elizabeth felt for her probably more than she felt for herself." Lydia is so oblivious and uncaring and incapable of insight. I think that's why, despite the danger, she elicits very little sympathy.

[@alisongreen7576]

Lydia doesn't get sympathy because she is so selfish and stupid. First, she knows that Jane is in love with Bingley and he with her, but that Bingley's family and friends think Jane is beneath him. Rather than behaving well, making the family more "respectable" and maybe making the match possible, she does the exact opposite. Next, she won't take advice about philandering soldiers, throws herself at them and especially at Wickham- just to spite Lizzie who Wickham took an interest in. She elopes- bringing shame on the family and ruining Jane's hopes once and for all, and making it impossible for any of the other sisters to make a "good match". Finally, she remains clueless about how the marriage came about and gloats on how she is the first of the sisters to be married- insisting that her older sisters "move down" the order. Lydia continues with the delusion that Wickham loves her and that she has achieved something admirable with her recklessness. She arrives home in fancy clothes and in a fancy carriage- splashing cash on her image. She doesn't hesitate to bitch about the other women he was interested in, she makes it all about herself. She has been so clever and so irresistible, she has brought about this wonderful marriage! Lydia's self-deception and arrogance are nauseating. That's why nobody cares that she ends up married to a scoundrel who will make her unhappy ever after.

[@mjc42701]

@@alisongreen7576 Lydia knows nothing, she is far to immature, ignorant and selfish to think at all outside of her immediate wants and desires, maybe even being narcissistic, her character is shallow like the mothers, that is why she is not given much consideration, you reap what you sow.

[@helomarcondes2573]

And everyone seems to forget she’s literally 15

[@valkyriesardo278]

I think Darcy's intervention is more interesting than Wickham's motivations. Darcy rescues Lydia for a multitude of reasons. He expresses guilt for not having denounced Wickham after the cad very nearly ruined Georgiana. Darcy had kept silent to shield his sister's reputation but that also covered for Wickham's misdeeds. And so Darcy feels party to blame for Lydia's plight. He is unable to give up all hope of marriage with Elizabeth and that would bring Lydia's disgrace upon both families. In that society, the disgrace is so extensive that it would likely ruin the marriage prospects of all the Bennett daughters. Since he holds Elizabeth in such high regard, Darcy cannot bear anything less than her good opinion. This is the main reason he told her of Georgiana's elopement. He rescues Lydia for Elizabeth's sake whether she will have him or no. Last but not least, Darcy intervenes because it is the decent thing to do and he is the best candidate for the task. Darcy has the resources to buy Wickham's cooperation. As part of the settlement, the newlyweds will move out of the region to become "distant relations", not a constant irritation, and too far removed for local gossip.

[@varshana81]

Excellent summation Valkyrie! I would add that Darcy did not involve himself in saving Lydia from infamy with any idea of using his help as leverage to gain Elizabeth’s favor. She only found out about his help through the letter from her aunt Gardiner. Then Lizzy’s gratitude and esteem, towards Mr. Darcy was established. Jane Austen goes into detail as to ‘gratitude’ and ‘esteem’ being the basis for deep love.

[@tomriley5790]

@@varshana81 I'm not completely sure of that, whilst she doesn't hear directly he may have hoped she would find out and when she thanks him for it he says that he was thinking only of her.

[@kevinrussell1144]

Yes, VS, you've got it exactly right. Darcy comes out of this not as the superior, lofty jerk, but as a man who well deserves the best woman in the book.

[@sharonc.2207]

Maybe he also did it in part to preserve his friend Mr. Bingley's ability to court and marry Jane too

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

I agree with you

[@carriedoyne7362]

I've always thought that Miss Austen was a great "people watcher", and had an uncanny ability to create her characters based on the people she watched or knew in real life. Fascinating!

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Henry Austen (Jane Austen's brother) seems to be protesting rather too much when he claims: "Her power of inventing characters seems to have been intuitive, and almost unlimited. She drew from nature; but, whatever may have been surmised to the contrary, never from individuals" ('Biographical Notice of the Author'). She _never_ drew characters from real-life individuals? Hmmmm

[@cogidubnus1953]

@@DrOctaviaCox Perhaps he meant to imply she used composite characters derived by combining characteristics she'd witnessed in multiple persons?

[@sitcomsTV]

@@DrOctaviaCox No. Of course not. She didn't need to COPY REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. She understood LIFE itself. When you are that blessed you can write about anything with truth to it. She could make out any character perfectly because she understood the morals of her time and human nature so obviously well.

[@sitcomsTV]

@@DrOctaviaCox Know this: Many women troughtout time had very good insites about right, wrong, life. Some NEVER MARRIED. Yet they knew life. Jane just happend to be blessed with the ability to write her thoughts and create published novels. Many women that couldn't even write probably knew the same as her. But coming from a lower class they had to work hard. Their understandings of life forever lost in their thoughts and life time.

[@mish375]

I had a conversation with people about this and we all agreed that Austen seemed to write about people that we could all encounter in real life. We all have known the Mr. Collins, Mrs. Bennets, Lydias, Mr Bennets, Carolines, De Bourghs, Bingleys, and Darcys of the world.

[@pixistyx]

YES! Finally 36 mins in I feel vindicated. In high school I wrote an essay postulating that Wickham probably had sniffed out the relationship between Elizabeth and Darcy and snagging her little sister for blackmail was so much easier than actually working for money. I did not get passing marks on the essay because my teacher said it was far-fetched and not supported by the book. Haha! Maybe not the boring toned down version she read. I enjoyed your video greatly, thank you for posting it.

[@louisegogel7973]

The proper way to respond to an essay is not to the idea being presented, but to the way it is crafted. Your teacher would have been better off focusing on the actual writing, on how you developed and supported your idea, rather than just the idea itself.

[@didntlistendad]

If it’s any comfort I wrote an exam short answer arguing it was false that Magellan was the first man to circumnavigate the globe. My history teacher was annoyed that ‘I got it wrong’. I pointed out (politely) that Magellan had been killed before he made it back. So who do YOU think was the first man then? I was asked. Reply: an anonymous sailor- we cannot know which one. Teacher was more annoyed- how now was he to mark the question. Kind of his decision, I replied. My duty was to say false. I remember that from decades ago. So if you were failed for the idea rather than the execution of the essay I understand your delight in having the idea affirmed.

[@bargainhuntermama]

This was always my theory too.

[@waynesimpson4081]

Agree. On my first reading I suspected that Wickham sussed out Darcy's interest along with Bingley's in the family. Chiefly due to knowing Darcy as a child, Elizabeth's overestimation of her poker face, and my own attributing Wickham (I.e. not in the text) a preternatural ability to spot weakness and potential wealth. But I too found very little support for the idea. I still think the idea tightens the Wickham plot if he did so, but that might be my hope and not Austen's intention.

[@trishalamb138]

It's exactly the reason. He knew he could get to D'Arcy through Lydia.

[@joanadias5093]

Okay but I just realised something. When Lizzie asks Mr Bennet not to allow Lydia to go to Brighton and he talks about Lydia not being a target to fortune hunters, he is not considering the fact that a lot of men would take advantage of girls not because of monetarily gain but because of other reasons. Because he sees his 3 youngest as girls, as in children. While he respects both Jane and Lizzy as adults worthy of respect and being heard,he sees his youngest as silly kids. While his answers shows his indolence, it also shows a father that thinks of as Kids who haven't grown yet. Perhaps he thinks they are innocent, not in the way Jane is (naivity) but in a way that a child is. P.S.: I'm not sure this makes sense and English is not my first language, sorry!

[@fiveoutoffour]

This is a really good point. I think it also highlights how far removed regency marriages are connections of love and attraction. As Mr Collin's hints at during his proposal, marriage is a 'business,' which is why Darcy and Lizzy's engagement was met with such backlash (i.e. from Lady Catherine)

[@badtvbad1]

Don't apologize, you expressed yourself very clearly!

[@colleenobrien8212]

Better English than most of the comments on KZbin! Your point is well made.

[@Ashbrash1998]

You make a valid point, I know a lot of others here keep saying that "at her age she's considered an adult back then". But even today the mindset of a girl at that age is very immature. And it says something that her own father thought that as well, and it's true. Like most girls her age, she fantasized about marriage and romance, especially with a soldier.

[@YeshuaKingMessiah]

I agree with ur assessment

[@MarchionessDarby62]

My feeling about it was always that he needed to leave, and since she wanted to run off, he allowed her to think they’d be married - that gave him time to get more sex from her, and when the time came, he would abandon her in London, which in those days would have destroyed her entire life. He’s a sociopath.

[@lccsd2392]

and a misogynist. He seems to want a lady's fortune and already resents 'her' whomever she turns out to be. He is a cad and a bounder, a dastardly, craven excuse of a man.

[@stardroplet9499]

Think I like your reasoning best 👍

[@loyciecasey5944]

Right

[@janedunsworth8728]

It's actually pretty clear from the book that this is exactly what happened. He needed to run away from his debts, he figured going with a "friend" was more fun than going alone, and whatever happened after that, happened.

[@patty7791]

@@lccsd2392 """""."…"

[@reveranttangent1771]

So going to Scotland was like going to Las Vegas...

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Ha! - sort of, yes (I think - although I'm not very familiar with Las Vegas law!). The 'Prevention of Clandestine Marriages Act' (1753) meant that public marriage banns had to be read for three weeks, in the parish that the couple were intending to settle, before the marriage took place: "all Banns of Matrimony shall be published in an audible manner in the Parish Church, or in some publick Chapel, in which publick Chapel Banns of Matrimony have been usually published, of or belonging to such Parish or Chapelry wherein the Persons to be married shall dwell, according to the Form of Words prescribed by the Rubrick prefixed to the Office of Matrimony in the Book of Common Prayer, upon three Sundays preceding the Solemnization of Marriage" It was a particular provision "That nothing in this Act contained shall extend to that Part of Great Britain called Scotland".

[@reveranttangent1771]

@@DrOctaviaCox my comparison is based on the fact that in Las Vegas, you can get a drive through civil marriage certification...

[@DrOctaviaCox]

How romantic!

[@reveranttangent1771]

@@DrOctaviaCox 😄

[@davidwright7193]

Wickham would have preferred Vegas. There aren’t any casinos in Gretna Green...

[@theresabollman8061]

I love that after Lizzy tells Darcy she is grateful to him for what he has done for her sisters, he tells her..."You must know it was all for you". He had seen her distress at "The Rose and Crown" and her peace of mind was important to him.

[@polinanikulina]

"...and your selfish disdain of the feelings of others" must've hit him pretty hard

[@rjj-52]

I have recently been introduced to, and now understand, the condition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I had read Pride and Prejudice many years ago as a young adult and for years I could not understand why Wickham would run off with Lydia. I had re-read the book and several section relevant to Wickham's motives but could not come to a reasonable conclusion. Now that I understand and can recognize NPD almost everywhere, I completely understand all of Wickham's words, actions, and motivations. To run off with Lydia--why not? He's leaving anyway; may as well take a bit of fun with him for a while before launching himself onto a new more profitable target. Lydia's youth and ignorance was not his concern or responsibility. Narcissism didn't just pop up in the 20th century. It's been around for a really long time and Jane Austen saw it. She just didn't have a clinical name for it.

[@polinanikulina]

Having observed this personality disorder from an uncomfortably close distance, your reading of Mr. Wicham as narcissistic makes sense to me. Narcissists are very charming when they stand to gain from the acqauintance or when establishing a good reputation, but turn vile and vicious when their scemes fall through. Malignant narcissists even derive a sick kind of sadistic joy from ruining people's moods, relationships, and reputations.

[@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991]

People need to be taught from a young age, in age-appropriate ways that they can understand, that charm is a verb, not a virtue.

[@Sizdothyx]

We give so many scientific names for excuses in assholery but we can't even come up with a handful for being a halfway decent person.

[@MrsJMW]

@@Sizdothyxwell said

[@AlexAndra-jh6hv]

She also pegged psychopathy in William Eliot in Persuasion.

[@jolieonetoo]

I am almost certainly overthinking this here, but as a retired psychodynamic psychotherapist, I am intrigued by the narcissistic characteristics of both Lydia and Wickham. I hold Austen's observation of behaviour so highly that, although I am not suggesting that she would analyse the personalities of her characters with a therapist's eye, I do suggest that she deeply understood the interplay (psychodynamics) of relationship. The self-interest of narcissists always dismays normal human beings. Lydia, as an arch manipulator herself, cannot fail to be impressed by Wickham's skill in this area. She is not repelled, as others are, by his shallow attachment to Mary King. I also believe that she may be challenged by sibling rivalry to out do Lizzy by "securing" Wickham. I always feel that Lydia deserves Wickham. They are equally shallow. Lizzy speaks of Lydia's love for Wickham, but this is more of a testament to an older sister's affection for a younger sister. Lizzy cannot bring herself to see how self-seeking Lydia is, because she has tender and protective feelings for the youngest sibling. As for Wickham's feelings, Lydia's effusive love-bombing would almost certainly have pandered to his cravings to be worshipped. He would never admit to any vulnerability to her manipulations, but I feel that he may have been a little addicted to her vivacity. In the closing chapters of the novel, Austen tells us that the Wickhams have a kind of working arrangement in their marriage, living off the richer members of the family. There is no mention of either party being heart-broken.

[@DezMarivette]

Absolutely amazing observation! She certainly understood human behavior, and that’s so right about competition and love bombing. That is so Lydia’s style!

[@theproplady]

One tell for a narcissist is that (s)he is always blaming other people for their misfortunes. Wickham always paints himself as a victim who never gets an even break. It's people like him who inspired the phrase: "If you come across an a--hole in the course of your day, then you've met an a--hole. If every single person you come across during your day is an a--hole - then you're the a--hole."

[@ESPNight004]

This gives me much to think about. I had always fallen in, I suppose, with Elizabeth and Mr. Bennet's views that Lydia was silly, and empty-headed. I suppose that could be a false idea. Perhaps this is wrong and people habitually underestimated Lydia's self-interest. Could she, still developing her manipulative and conning skills, have seen the superior talents of Wickham and maneuvered herself into his way? He certainly would have underestimated her as did everyone else around her. Perhaps, as a couple, they would develop into a skilled con artist duo, feeding off of and encouraging each other's conniving ways. That might be giving Lydia too much credit, but it is an intriguing idea.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

This is really interesting, thank you Jean. Sibling rivalry with Lizzy, yes - and also (and I'm not sure if there's a technical psychotherapy term for this) general competition rivalry too perhaps, for example Miss King? Do you think that Lydia might be challenged to out-do other women by 'securing' a man who has flirted with many other women?

[@Smallpotato1965]

Wickham? Absolutely! Lydia? Lydia is a young teenagers and teenagers tend to be 'natural narcissists', which is not the same as clinical narcissists/a person with narcissistic personality disorder. Now, I'm not really an Austen fan (sorry!), and I'm just here because, as a historian, I enjoy close readings of 19th century texts, but since I grew up with a sibling with NPD, I feel qualified to reply... As I've said, I'm not acquainted enough with the text, but a real narcissist would, like Wickham, have left a trail of lies, deceits and misery behind her. Is there any proof in the text that Lydia is a compulsive liar, someone who hates anyone who is kind, intelligent and noble of heart (because the narc feels only too well how their own flaws stand out when standing next to such a person) and does everything in their power to diminish and even destroy them? Even children with NPD are able to disrupt families with their lies and manipulations - don't ask me how I know, :(

[@meganluck4352]

They really did under estimate Wickham's lack of honor. They also under estimated Lydia's lack or morals and determination to find herself an officer.

[@sayurisai9633]

I find it interesting that Lydia, for all her loose ways, hadn't already nabbed an officer (she and Denny seemed awfully close). Is it possible she felt they were boring and found Wickham more of a challenge?

[@janedunsworth8728]

@@sayurisai9633 more likely Denny knew what was good for him and Lydia was just temporarily amusing.

[@sayurisai9633]

@@janedunsworth8728 Ahh... I see, you make a good point.

[@varshana81]

Lizzie’s note to herself for future reference is, “to never underestimate the impudence of an impudent man”

[@jennifer7685]

She’s 15. Who is wise at that age? And who was there to educate her better? Lizzie and Jane can be wonderful in all things, but they spend little time on their annoying kid sisters. Lydia didn’t stand a chance.

[@mysticmouse7261]

I love how Jane Austen is practical and unsentimental in her depiction of her society. It's so 'modern'.

[@vorkosigrrl6047]

I have always felt that the conversation in Ch. 41 between Wickham and Lizzy made Wickham uncomfortable, because all that he tries so hard to conceal could be in danger of being exposed. In other words, that Lizzy knows about his seduction of Georgiana, his totally mercenary and dishonorable behavior, etc. He hadn't yet gone to Brighton and ruined himself. I believe he is cruel enough that he would enjoy this opportunity for revenge upon Lizzy (for knowing his secrets, and for defending Darcy, and therefore threatening him) by ruining not only her sister, but her own and her other sisters' chances of respectable marriages. And if he does suspect Darcy's and Lizzy's attachment, so much the better. He is very cunning and doesn't care what lives he ruins. Or he cares, but just enough to enjoy doing so. Lizzy could even be seen as the catalyst to the "elopement" taking place. Her flirting on the edge of exposing Wickham was part of her wit, and the archness of her personality. I wonder if he would have taken Lydia with him, if that conversation hadn't taken place. In some ways, it actually was in his interest to take Lydia, if he was interested in revenge on Elizabeth, or Elizabeth and Darcy both. Darcy seems to think revenge is at least a partial motivator in his attempt to elope with Georgiana. So the seduction of Lydia can be viewed as a parallel situation to the seduction of Georgiana. Minus the money. Like a mirror image, where revenge is the constant.

[@taesheartwarmingsmile5822]

I agree with u

[@luchia4tom134]

theres an added layer to this as well. he seduces Lydia. her character is ruined and Elizabeth says it as well, or something like it anyway, 'her entire family must partake in the disgrace'. the whole Bennett family will be ruined by Lydia and Wickham getting together. this means that if Elizabeth ever tried to reveal Wickham's real character she wouldnt be believed as people would either not believe someone with her tarnished background or think she was bitter about his actions. thereby with one seduction Wickhams interest and character is protected

[@alexsoundso]

That's exactly what I thought! I think revenge on Lizzy was a strong motivation for his elopement.

[@YeshuaKingMessiah]

Like a mirror image Wow, very good

[@yezdnil]

When the Meryton gossips refer to Wickham as 'almost an angel of light', Austen might have been adding in another level of irony? Wickham perhaps is being acquainted with Lucifer, the fallen 'morning star' angel, an 'angel of light'. Austen's use of language is always considered so it would not surprise me in the least if she had Lucifer in mind when she used that phrase.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

A fabulous point. And further exposes Meryton as misguided and unthinking, perhaps?

[@yezdnil]

@@DrOctaviaCox Oh, definitely. Nothing like a small, closed community to spread and (mis)interpret rumours. It's also interesting that Elizabeth herself was an active part of that gossip spreading, no matter how much she might have thought herself above it. Lizzy has a lot of her mother in her, not that she (and perhaps most P&P readers) would ever admit it. She has her father's sharp intelligence and wit but, I would argue, not his detachment, and her mother's energy and hastiness which counters Mr Bennet's indolence.

[@annainspain5176]

@@yezdnil There's also a lot of Mr Collins in Lizzy's intellectual snobbery and belief that she is cleverer and more clear sighted than the adults around her. Remember that she is not yet one and twenty.

[@christinemo9622]

There's another teasing thought. In Shakespeare Falstaff exclaims his "ill angel is light". Angel meant a coin, like a sovereign and Falstaff was punning and indicating he was broke.

[@jessica_jam4386]

That’s the first thing I thought of when she mentioned the angel of light comment. It’s mentioned biblically numerous times how satan will appear as a beautiful angel of light. Austen had to know they reference as her father was a chaplain before he became too ill, was he not?

[@marianneshepherd6286]

It always struck me that Lydia was never ashamed of her behavior. Mary talks about this with Elizabeth's and whilst Lydia is staying with the Gardiners her aunt chastises her but she is oblivious to this. When Lydia and Wickham return to Longborne after being married Austen writes about the tension in the room prior to the meeting and how disgusted and shocked Elizabeth, Jane and Mr Bennet are with the couple to the point where Elizabeth has to leave the room. It seems that Lydia's selfishness in her actions meant that she never took her family's respectability into account or gave it a moments thought. Brave writing I feel as a women's virtue at the time was considered of the up most importance and as Mary puts it "almost irretrievably".

[@camillelemmens1745]

I don't think Lydia ever really understood the situation she was in. It hasn't occurred to her that Wickham wouldn't marry her and that she was at risk of ruining her reputation. She is not ashamed, because she does not comprehend the severity of her predicament. In her mind, she is just a woman who got married - which gives her status and something to be envied for

[@tracyroweauthor]

@@camillelemmens1745 and at 16 she probably has a very idealized idea of what love and marriage are. It's been so long since I read the book, but I vaguely remember that Mr. Bennet was not a very affectionate man with his daughters and so potentially Lydia's behavior was born of a need to find love that's she's missing from her father.

[@lonerhappy]

Lydia was like her mother. A man was an object to marry.

[@tracyroweauthor]

@@lonerhappy it goes a little deeper than that. Mrs. Bennett knows that if her daughters don't marry, they could possibly end up destitute. When Mr. Bennett dies, Longbourne goes to Mr. Collins and he can toss out Mrs. Bennett and the girls anytime he wants. They have to have their own households in order to make sure they are taken care of.

[@beyourself2444]

@@tracyroweauthor Yes, because Mrs. Bennett did marry Mr. Bennett for love as her family was richer than his but understands the importance of her daughters having their own households so as not to be destitute. Mrs. Bennett is frivolous but not stupid like Lydia.

[@Sousyned]

I always considered that Wickham running off with Lydia as a bit of a “crime of opportunity” / “two birds one stone” thing, he was always planning to go because he had other problems at camp. His con was already falling apart, Lydia was just silly enough to go with him, but she was just a side perk of the trip and at best a useful excuse to be leaving. “I’m totally good for the money, cheques in the mail, absolutely going to pay, but just got to pop up to Gretna Green and marry my girl real quick”

[@taylardotson8100]

Such a good point! Thank you for bringing this out 😊

[@susanhaney3437]

I agree with you! He was running away from all his gambling debts, and Lydia is just a fun thing on the side.

[@danieltobias9742]

Another subject: It seems to me that, after Darcy marries Elizabeth, his problems are just beginning. Her family (mother and certain sisters) will remain just as annoying as ever, only they will now be visiting and inevitably overstaying their welcome. Lydia and the abhorrent Wickham are now part of Darcy's intimate circle as family members, like it or not. And we can all agree both Lydia and Wickham spending more than their means as well as stepping outside their vows and depending on Darcy to clean up the mess , saving the family from disgrace over and over again. Miss Bingley's irritation and disgust for the Bennets will be one-hundred fold now that she is forced to include them as family. Furthermore, the society at large will view Darcy as marrying beneath himself - and that will be a constant battle. So, as satisfying as it is to see Elizabeth and Darcy unite, I see dark clouds on the horizon. Do you? Would that Austen had written a sequel! I would have loved to read Darcy and Elizabeth tackle these problems as husband and wife!

[@daisymoses6812]

It would be worth it to write out a movie script as you outlined: (a) constant irritant of a shallow mother in law (b) Lydia & Wickham dynamics spreading mold spores and rot everywhere (c) Caroline Bingley seething with rage over all three Bennet marriages, and NOT LEAST (d) Darcy battling society at large for having married Elizabeth.... all against the backdrop of a profound spiritual bond portrayed between Darcy and Elizabeth.

[@edithengel2284]

Wickham at least was not something that Darcy had to put up with directly. The Bingleys entertained him, but he was unwelcome at Pemberley. As for Darcy cleaning up the mess, I imagine he made it clear at some point that that was done. Lydia could be protected from Wickham if Darcy had had enough. Miss Bingley will successfully stifle, it is made clear at the end of the novel, any disgust at Elizabeth's origins, and no one probably really cares what her actual feelings are, as long as she keeps them to herself. Since it appears Darcy has no particular interest in court society, any adverse views about his wife's birth will be of little importance to him. Locally, he is a large-scale employer and philanthropist, so I doubt if a marriage to a gentleman's daughter, even one with a few lower connections, is going to upset or scandalize anyone. As Austen tells us the Gardiners are frequently at Pemberley, so it apparently does not disturb Darcy. No constant battle, I think.

[@treehouse2902]

I get this, but I'm afraid I disagree that Wickham could have his way with his rich in-laws. No way would Darc now joined with Elizabeth would allow WIckahm to one up them. I think in time the Darcys will work wonders to remove dumb Lydia from her predicament. The Bingleys will be good cop to the Darcys bad cop.

[@merebrillante]

Even if Wickham didn’t think that he might be able to get some money out of Darcy by seducing Lydia, I do think he might have seen the "elopement" as a way of revenging himself on Elizabeth, who now knew or at least suspected his (Wickham’s) true nature. Revenge was partly the motive of his pursuit of Miss Darcy, after all. Like a cornered rat, he will bite and then flee.

[@hollybrooke322]

I agree wholeheartedly. Especially if their could have been the slightest idea that Darcy may break away from Lizzie due to the scandal inflicted upon her family.

[@StarOpal]

I've always thought the same, the part where he and Elizabeth part ends with her not playing along with him and not being able to suppress a smile (lowkey laughing at him). It would be a revenge on both Elizabeth and Darcy.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

"His revenge would have been complete indeed" (ch.35).

[@dreamarcher4018]

I also think he may well have had resentment towards the class of people he didn’t belong or was accepted into. He was a hanger on because of Darcy’s fathers friendship with his father who was as I recall the estate’s steward. I think he enjoyed flaunting his paramours to Darcy at college because Darcy could do nothing to intervene and he could continue to embarrass and offend him in this way and all due to the fact Wickham would always be a lower class than Darcy.

[@Bettie_Williams]

Exactly! While convenience may have been the reason he allowed Lydia to tag along with him to London. it doesn't explain why he didn't dump her at the first opportunity or why he specifically aligned himself again with Mrs. Younge--the woman who helped him in his attempted seduction of Georgianna. Lizzie told Wickham especially before he left for Brighton that she saw Mr. Darcy at Rosings and uses her wit to indicate that she not only has developed a greater respect for Darcy, but that this gained respect has come from understanding the true dealings between Darcy and Wickham. It's clear that Wickham grasps her double meaning as he becomes "agitated" and "alarmed." Since he knows that this must be because Darcy told Lizzie the truth, it wouldn't take Wickham long to discern that a man like Darcy wouldn't tell Lizzie something like this unless he trusted and esteemed her greatly. As such, it wouldn't take much to assume Darcy had designs on securing Lizzie for his wife. Lydia eloping puts her sisters' nuptial futures in great jeopardy--a peril a man like Darcy would not be able to stop himself from jumping headlong into to resolve. Wickham has known Darcy all his life. They were once best friends. This plan he has is his largest bet yet. Have Darcy find them--via Mrs. Younge--and then force Darcy to finance Wickham's wedding to Lydia. Not only does this clear away his debts of honor and the money he owes to the shopkeepers, it buys him a commission in a northern regiment and puts some funds in his pocket. Also, if his guess is right about Darcy later marrying Lizzie, it makes Wickham Darcy's brother-in-law. This means future ways to cash in on that connection, which, we know by way of the ending of P&P, Lydia often writes Lizzie to beg for money--money Lizzie sends them. So, to my mind, Wickham eloped with Lydia for money and revenge against Darcy and Lizzie. Darcy because he had everything Wickham supposed he, himself, should have had, and Lizzie because she--a woman--not only saw through his guise and feeble attempts to flatter her after his dealings with Miss King, but also because Lizzie proved herself smarter than him.

[@joelsnyder8499]

In regards to the "angel of light," I'd thought that perhaps Jane Austen was making a biblical allusion. "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14)

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Brilliant point! One perhaps, ironically lost on the inhabitants of Meryton?

[@melissahuyett1584]

I thought the same thing.

[@SouthCountyGal]

Great observation! I never noticed that before.

[@MountainMama1]

My same thought.

[@wildberries9894]

Intentionally biblical or not, playing up the exaggeration to evoke the opposite

[@erikasfo]

So in a way…Lizzie is partly to blame for Lydia’s elopement. She probably thought she was giving Wickham a good scare by sharing (or over sharing) her evolved opinion on Mr. Darcy as if to say, “You haven’t fooled me,” but in her naïveté she didn’t realize how she was giving Wickham more fuel to keep using her. It’s wild to me how Jane is Lizzie’s foil in supposed naïveté and yet…Lizzie ended up being the most naive. Absolutely brilliant analysis. I loved this essay video!

[@ladyhrist]

honestly i had always assumed wickham's intent was to flee his creditors; i seem to remember gambling debts being mentioned in multiple chapters. lydia probably was an afterthought save for physical companionship.

[@iris7484]

same, I take it at face value. i mean the guy doesn't really think or care about the future, and "it seemed like a good idea at the time" is about as far as he cares to consider his choices. Lydia, otoh, if she convinced herself she was in a whirlwind romance based on some of his commonplace philandering, and determined she would run away with him, then literally who is going to stop her? Is Wickham going to put his foot down? He doesn't have the strength of personality to match Lydia, so no. It's also not improbable that they were both drunk at the time.

[@beatrizrodrigues5006]

With many re reads, I came to this same conclusion. That he was fleeting already

[@Megan-xt1ni]

There is an element of an unsavory liking for very young girls as well. Many of his seductions are described as just out of the school room. Georgiana wasn’t out meaning not recognized as of marriageable age when he engages her. Lady Catherine is surprised and displeased to hear that Lizzie’s youngest sisters are already out in company, and Lizzie agrees her youngest sister isn’t ready to be out in company, which I took to mean not ready for marriage due to age. You can say younger women don’t see through his charming act as well, but the book still demonstrates his preference.

[@therealfinnaspring8585]

The younger girls are easier for him to manipulate. He's looking for victims for wealth gain or easy strange

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

Lady Catharine’s issue was more that the younger girls were out before older ones were married. It probably would have lessened the marriage prospects for older ones, maybe not presently but in few years, if Jane and Elizabeth weren’t the best looking and most intelligent and charming of the girls. Mary did suffer however from the comparison. If only Jane and Elizabeth had been out (to keep each other company) and the rest were at home improving their education, and after ones their marriages Mary is out Mary would improve her changes of being noticed. She would have one married sister whose household she could stay and meet people and other one to advise and keep company at other events and even if she wasn’t good looking she really would not be overshadowed like she did with 4 other sisters. The younger of whom were much more lively than she and probably better looking. If Lydia was older it would have been unfair to keep her not being out because her sisters weren’t married but she didn’t need to at 16.

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

Well, women didn't usually live long back then, especially with complications in child birth (actually where the evil step mom trope comes from), tons were already getting married young, and you're definitely more attractive when you're younger compared to getting older like a spinster... It's not about age and robbing the cradle as much as it is what his options and society wants from him are.

[@margueritenoiris9355]

​@@antithoughtpolice7497 Sorry, but you're wrong. The lower class had a low life expectancy, to be sure. But for people of Elizabeth Bennett's social standing or higher, the life expectancies were not as bad as some would have you believe. Underaged (under 21) persons in England needed parental permission to marry. If not obtained at the time of marriage, the marriage could be declared null. That was not the case in Scotland, hence why Lydia and Wickham ran away to Scotland. While records of the time were difficult to find, sources online claim that the average age of marriage in the Regency era for mid-to upperclass women lies between 18 and 21 or 22. Even higher in the Victorian age - in which the average age for a woman to be married was 26. As a Regency and Victorian era-enthusiast, I get annoyed when people don't bother to research their claims - it always results in people developing an incorrect view of what those eras looked like. Please do your research next time.

[@antithoughtpolice7497]

@@margueritenoiris9355 The wicked step mother trope is born of the rate at which mothers die in child birth, and the dad's remarry... It's not like a 50/50 chance of dying, I was saying it was high enough to notice a childbirth-mother death rate. And I didn't say THAT young, 14 was the age for the Romeo and Juliet era,long before this.

[@AngelicCutie365]

20:20 I found this quote from the book very interesting where it mentions Wickham being an "angel of light". From a religious stand point many Christians believe Satan to have been an angel of light before he was cast out of heaven and fell from grace. This description of Wickham could have been Austen' s subtle way of telling the audience about his background and his amoral tendencies.

[@brendanielsen1857]

I think that is an excellent insight and valid. Austin would definately know that passage, sincy her father was a clergyman so she must have heard a lot of Bible verses and sermons. I think you found something important that no one else has yet mentioned.

[@KompletelyKlueless]

YES! Great comment! Lucifer the morning star!

[@brendanielsen1857]

Something else paralleling the "angel of light" theme is how Wickham grew up in what was could be viewed as "heaven on earth" environment, then through his own misbehaviour, found himself "cast out", becoming something else - and ready to drag others down with him.

[@l.h.2543]

Great point!

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

That’s a definitely interesting quote

[@susannahjones6410]

The last point that wickam chose lydia as a potential bargoning chip to extract more money from Darcy is too well thought out for wickam. A man that runs up debts, and acts dishonorably in every fresh feild suggests he is supperficial, and makes dumb decisions. It is more likely lydia threw herself at him after he told her she was leaving and he thought no problem. He also did not see the Bennet family or connections as a threat, unlike Darcy when he pursued georiana or Miss King's Uncle. The elopement highlights how vunrable the Bennets are to ruin, making Darcy's actions in saving them all the greater.

[@Violetta2509]

Exactly. That's what I thought, too. Throughout the story, he acts as a rather superficial being and definitely not as a strategic thinker. This plan would be something "too intelligent" for him. 😂 Instead, I suppose Austin's intention was to show him as a quite despicable and dissolute character acting upon impulse. He never loved anyone but himself (which I doubt either, otherwise he would have tried to maintain a certain degree of decency) and didn't think much of his own future.

[@oceanhome039]

I agree with the notion that Wickham is finding his way back to Darcy’s resources. Austen’s careful penning of that conversation between Wickham and Elizabeth at the farewell tea is foreboding and significantly raises the tension in the novel, but I couldn’t have forecasted the outcome. Miss Austen was so skillful a writer! Thanks for the analysis, I really enjoyed it.

[@TheNicolevertone]

I always thought Mr. Bennet's assessment of Lydia's potential danger in Brighton showed how sheltered he was, as a country gentleman, in the scheme of things. He never accounted for a seduction and abandonment, which was entirely possible given Lydia's sheltered ignorance and desire to "grow up" and the ease with which that could be taken advantage. A hub like Brighton would be sure to attract all types of people and it's strange that Mr. Bennet, as someone who prides himself as an observer of others, didn't account for the more desperate types certain to be present.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

That's a charitable way to put it, I think, Nicole. I rather think it was a convenient way for Mr Bennet to think about it (that he needn't worry because Lydia won't be an object of prey to anyone) - as he also says, "We shall have no peace at Longbourn if Lydia does not go to Brighton. Let her go, then" (ch.41). In Lizzy's own damning words about her father, Wickham "might imagine, from my father’s behaviour, from his indolence and the little attention he has ever seemed to give to what was going forward in his family, that he would do as little, and think as little about it, as any father could do, in such a matter" (ch.47).

[@Sciencegrinds]

@@DrOctaviaCox But Mr Bennet is a clergy man, He would surely expect people to live by the 10 Commandments? Lydia is his child, his baby. He doesn't see Lydia as a woman, or Mary either. The only child he shows any interest in is Lizzie, and even that is not a relationship of equals - he doesn't give any serious weight to Lizzie's request not to send Lydia to Brighton because he does not see Lydia as anything more than an annoying, whining, spoiled brat. He wants peace not temper tantrums - what man doesn't? Also, "interest" in any of his daughters would be viewed financially, in terms of economics and social order not sexual or romantic terms, not only by Wickham and wider society, but by him too. (Only Jane is a real romantic.) I think that he would not think about his daughters as sexual or sensual beings. Only nuisances, that are not male, except for Lizzie, and her only to a point. He uses her for the companionship he can't get from his wife. I have observed that even in modern times, up to the turn of the century when women get married their fathers are ok but they freak out when the daughters get pregnant, whether they are married or single, because they suddenly have to acknowledge they are sexual beings not just their annoying, though loved, offspring. What Mr Bennet says to Lizzie is not what a man will say about a woman - it's what a parent will say about any young pre-pubescent child, even nowadays. People want to shut their children up so they put them in front of the TV or iPad. Letting her go to Brighton was the equivalent for that period.

[@happybkwrm]

@@Sciencegrinds He wasn't a clergyman. Mr. Collins was the clergyman. Mr. Bennet was a 'gentleman'. He let her go because he was too lazy and didn't want to hear Lydia whine.

[@margarettaft7362]

Mr Bennett wasn’t a clergyman. He was a wealthy farmer with tenants and foremen to supervise the workers. He was incredibly lazy , didn’t supervise the farm didn’t supervise the household or his children.

[@d.m.miller1590]

@@happybkwrm Lydia was to be supervised by Colonel Foster and wife and Denny and wife. Don't be too hard on Mr. Bennet.

[@lounik3896]

I always found Lydia the saddest character of the book, she is so oblivious about what's happening around her that I can't even get mad at her, I only feel pity. I don't think her marriage was so happy either, I always imagine it as a regency version of Victoria and Lionel's marriage (the black candle, catherine cookson)

[@angelwhispers2060]

Honestly you are correct. He could have even sold her to a brothel in London to get money for her, after he had gotten what he wanted. Then he could use that money to escape to some other part of the country or even somewhere in the British Empire.

[@christinehall6441]

Lydia was totally spoilt by her mother and given far too much freedom for her age and the socially expected standards of behaviour for that period. There was also no comprehension of consequences or empathy for anyone other than herself. There's one in every family whether sibling or cousin etc.

[@clobberelladoesntreadcomme9920]

@@angelwhispers2060 No he couldn't have, in the conversation between Mrs. Gardiner the Colonel and Jane everyone says she was "hardly unprotected" and that Wycham must expect that "her friends would come forward." It's not THAT easy to sell a genteel girl into literal slavery. Ruining her reputation would be pretty life destroying though.

[@crystilmurch5659]

I have read all of Jane Austen's full novels once a year on average since I was a teenager. Each time I read them I notice something new that I have perspective to understand and appreciate. Her genius comes into play at telling stories that seem so simple and relatively pointless on the surface in a way that gives them such a depth of insight into humanity. I believe this is why film adaptations often leave something to be desired. So much is lost without the narration all too often. I want to thank you for being so thorough and for your appreciation of the way that Austen uses words.

[@foozjen]

I admit never read any Jane Austen until I was 48 years old. Since then, I read them all once a year at least and watch whatever screen adaptations I can find.

[@suemassey5076]

Welcome aboard

[@jiho1988]

I always figured that he had figured out how much Elizabeth meant to Darcy and knew he would do jaut about anything to protect her. He knew based on what happened with Georgiana that Darcy would look for him and find him and he could negotiate his debts away and get Darcy to pay for his promotion.

[@QuestionableLifeChoices]

now i understand the idea that "lydia was wickham's punishment." i'm down for the idea that lydia does eventually grow up and wise up and eventually completely controls him and is about to treat him like the stain he is

[@YaoiHoshi]

According to the last chapter of the book it doesn’t seem so, unfortunately

[@kathleensmith644]

She never becomes wise to his bad character. If you read the book her life is still is one of constantly asking Elizabeth for money. Elizabeth writes to them telling them not to ask Mr Darcy for any money, but she provides what she can out of her own income from her Father. Mr Wickham and Lydia constant move about taking cheaper and cheaper houses as their spending and debts mount. Mr Wickham leaves Lydia on her own or in the care of Elizabeth whilst he goes to London gambling. They also stay with Jane and Mr Bingley until they wear out their welcome and have to be told to leave. Lydia loves him but he has little love or care for her. He never wanted to marry Lydia, she was just another young lady he used.

[@letarogers6380]

@@kathleensmith644 What's so interesting about that final chapter/prologue is that there is no mention of Lydia having had children, which you'd think would have happened pretty quickly. There must be subtext in this that would have been _understood_ by readers in the early 19th century. Jane Austen was too careful of a storyteller to omit something that would have so affected the Mr and Mrs Wickham's situation.

[@rowanaforrest9792]

@@letarogers6380 It's very possible that either Lydia or Wickham was infertile.

[@jessicascoullar3737]

@@rowanaforrest9792 many stds will cause infertility and given we can assume Wickham made liberal use of prostitutes, caring for nothing more than his own pleasures, he likely picked up a variety of them and passes to Lydia as well.

[@reganpierce7267]

I always felt a bit sorry for Lydia because eventually she would wake up and since she was married to the creep, she’s stuck in a relationship with a man who couldn’t care less about her. And a tiger doesn’t change his stripes, so he probably puts them into debt.

[@judywright4241]

---I only disagree to the point that Lydia is wiser than we might guess. She usurps her older sister’s ‘favorite’, plus to get ahead of her older sisters ‘being a married woman’. Which she exults in, she is definitely her mother’s daughter. She snagged a handsome husband and is determinedly oblivious to Elizabeth’s gentle chiding ‘not caring much for how you acquired your husband’. She seems quite simple but not uncunning and sly……,just like Wickham. They deserve one another.

[@ham90]

@@judywright4241 she’s 15 tho

[@heather333]

Young at 15 yes, but quite old enough to have her character formed. She'll live a rollercoaster life, but will always have Darcy's assistance and money to hand, in extremis. A clever minx, who I can imagine name dropping and bragging in good times, with hints of shame cast over the wider family in bad. As a married couple, one thinks of the saying - keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. The ideal marriage really.

[@eeveum]

Hi Regan, you are correct, in the final wrapping up pages of P&P Austen notes that the Whickhams have to keep moving from place to place because they are always running up debts with no way to pay them, I think it’s also implied that they attempt to solicit money from the Jane and Elizabeth too.

[@mjc42701]

@@heather333 How so? Lydia is to shallow to think of anything but herself, Austin wrote nothing in the book that hints to her being anything but shallow, besides Lydia thought that Elizabeth cared for Wickham, so how could she have foreseen the marriages of her sisters and any advantages? She couldn't and didn't, if Darcy had not intervened she would have ended up a fallen woman (remember this is in the 1700's) and probably been forced into prostitution by Wickham as a means for money, after what he did to Colonel Forster by taking Lydia while she was under his care, he could not go back to his same regiment, again what she did was extremely stupid and I question your intelligence for thinking otherwise.

[@paulaitchison2470]

My degree in English (English literature is my enduring passion) was followed by studying law, and eventually practising as a matrimonial lawyer, and qualifying as a psychotherapist. Austen's novels are rich material for all three elements - language, matrimonial law and psychoanalysis. Your examination of Wickham's character and motives is spot on 👌🏻

[@lindacbrady]

An additional angle to consider: Wickham used going away with Lydia as a means of throwing those who would look for him off the scent by making them think he’d gone to Scotland. Wickham could have just left Brighton and gone to London to hide, but that might have just been too obvious. If he had just wanted a companion to go along for the ride, there doesn’t seem to be any lack of tradesmen’s daughters who would willingly accompany him. But, by convincing Lydia that he was going to run away to Scotland with her, that also means that Wickham then gets to enjoy the advantage of having Lydia write to Colonel Fitzpatrick’s wife declaring their (bogus) travel plans. Everyone in Brighton would then hear about it, and they all would believe that Wickham was in Scotland and wouldn’t bother looking for him anywhere else (like, in London).

[@taylardotson8100]

I completely agree with you! I think that this was one of the main reasons he eloped with her

[@clove9051]

I always felt that Wickham planned for Darcy to come after him. He went to the same woman that helped him plan his elopement with Georgiana and secured lodging in one of her properties. Lydia said he kept watching out the window as though he were waiting for someone to show up. Darcy kept Georgiana’s elopement secret and was willing to pay, heard the gossip about Darcy, saw Elizabeth’s behavior and did what profited him. He knew Darcy well enough to gauge his reaction. People thought he would abandon Lydia but he planned for Darcy to pay him off, pay his debts and obtain a salary. Darcy did exactly that and bought him a commission. Darcy stayed to make sure they got married. That was Wickham’s advantageous marriage since his reputation was already in shambles. Appearances were everything to Darcy. Lady Catherine even knew Darcy well enough to know he fully commits to decisions.

[@rosannajackson5670]

I think the character I feel most sorry for is Mary. She just embarrasses herself all the time and it seems like the main characters only have contempt for her.

[@kellymcphaul2793]

That’s true. I am always embarrassed for her. Poor girl.

[@kenoliver8913]

As Woody Allen says "no comedy without a victim". Part of Austen's technique is to be absolutely savage on everyone but her hero and heroine (though she's not always shy of pointing out their flaws either). I think she would in real life have had a vicious tongue - a right b***h in fact.

[@prairieN]

Mary is my favourite character.

[@elirchi9214]

Yeah, cause Mary is only used as a foil for Lizzy to further convince the readers that she is much much better than her timid, bookish younger sister. I relate to Mary more (cause I always embarrass myself too) and I feel so bad for her. Poor Mary :(

[@kookiecream7259]

When you want to be Lizzy but you are always gonna be Mary 😭

[@cherylwest2543]

P & P is a most beloved book for me and I love the BBC 1995 series. The actors' portrayal of the iconic characters fixed the books' characters' appearance in my mind. Your explication of Wickam's character really helped me understand his motivation to escape his dishonor and to dishonor a willing victim. You have filled in the questions most excellently.

[@mel-tooqueertokaren]

I want to thank you so much for your channel. Having had small children the movies were very dear to me. Especially, Sense and Sensibility and Mansfield Park. I've owned the books but due to failing mental health haven't been able to delve into them as I've wanted to. Currently in a shelter, limited cell reception, I came across your channel. To be able to dive deeply into the world characters and remind myself of their inner workings as well as learn something new has been a joy. Thank you again for your efforts.

[@christinamac4828]

I always thought Wickham "eloped" with Lydia to get back at Lizzie for no longer hating Darcy. What an excellent dissection, Dr. Cox. Thank you. And yes, he's more of a scoundrel than I thought.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

It's my pleasure, Christina.

[@kristinaterry152]

This was my thought. How better to spite Elizabeth than to ruin all her future prospects.

[@carlbook2051]

I never felt it had anything to do with Lizzie. Lydia was available and he took the opportunity. I don't think he thought Darcy would come to the rescue. He just thought he could squeeze the Bennet family in order for them to keep their respectability. His gambling debts were going to crush him and he didn't have a lot of options.

[@mkuti-childress3625]

@@carlbook2051 Same! Except I didn’t think he was ever going to bother “squeezing” the Bennett family, or he would have contacted them instead of making it so hard to be found. I thought he was just having fun for a while, then leaving her and going somewhere he could disappear even further to start a new life. I don’t know why people thought he was trying to hurt Lizzie. He liked her and was always friendly to her. Plus he had absolutely zero idea she was interested in Darcy.

[@carlbook2051]

@@mkuti-childress3625 Of course the Lydia elopement was absolutely necessary to set up the rescue by the knight in shining armor. Austen didn't really develop the Wickham character much.

[@effie358]

Three things here are constantly growing: my love for this channel, my admiration for Jane Austen, and my dislike for Wickham. I know he's just a book character but, what a poop man

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Ha! - thank you Wildroses.

[@DestinyKiller]

I think Willoughby is worse, though. I do not like him. Although it could be read that Wickham is just early in his stage of Willoughbyness, lol

[@OzmaOfOzz]

@@DestinyKiller ohhhh he s the worst!! You say true!

[@Muck006]

All of you "girls" completely ignore the RESPONSIBILITY of the female side of these stories ... and thus you MISS THE POINT OF THE STORY! With Sense and Sensibility it is "do NOT live your life by your emotions" [Marianne] and for Pride and Prejudice it is "stop being a lazy mother (less for the father, because it was the responsibility of the mother to care about the education of girls) and take an interest in their education". Why am I saying this? Because Jane Austen gave us the perfect answer too: Fanny Price ... who saw through the smokescreen of Henry Crawford and recognized his behaviour as WRONG. So please stop this FEMINIST (="women are NEVER to blame for anything and do not have a responsibility for their own safety") look at the stories and recognize the RESPONSIBILITY OF WOMEN. Life isnt fair ... and everyone needs to be able to recognise danger ... but it is standard feminist behaviour to only ever blame men.

[@DestinyKiller]

@@Muck006 I'm terribly sorry if we hurt your fragile feelings by talking about fictional characters we don't like. And, if you read Jane Austen's books, particularly Sense and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice and Mansfield Park - the father's are critiqued heavily for their non-involvement in their children's education - morality and knowledge when they realized their wives were not capable of doing so. We are not using your straw man rhetoric that "women must never be blamed" in relation to Jane Austen because she herself never took that opinion. All of her characters are heavily flawed women that have to learn over the course of the novel, as do the male characters. It's called character growth. And, the reason that Willoughby is the character I dislike most is because he, like Henry Crawford (who is also a fairly loathsome character) uses people at his whim and discards them. He gives a slight justification for seducing Colonel Brandon's ward ("because I was a libertine was she then a saint?") Which more comes off as dragging her under the bus with him instead of a true justification for his actions. Wickham and Willoughby both aim for women that are of a certain class and very sheltered. We are allowed to dislike characters for our own reasons without it being a "feminist" crusade. Jane Austen also wrote vertu good male characters, many of whom are flawed as well and she even gives the benefit of the doubt to the most flawed ones of all. Maybe you should reread the books from a critical standpoint instead of an "Ahh, if only t'were like the days of old" viewpoint.

[@panthergirl1256]

I really enjoyed this video, thank you for making it! My memory is not great, so I have trouble retaining all of the details while I'm reading. Watching a video like this allows me to enjoy the book even more all over again!

[@honorsandiford6387]

I’ve just finished reading Pride and Prejudice for the first time and was very interested to hear of how others had perceived the Wickham/Lydia match. I think this video perfectly articulated every aspect of the relevant transactions. I am so pleased to have happened upon your channel!

[@Irulan10]

I liked your last hypothesis a lot, thank you for pointing that out, I had never noticed it. But it led me to another conclusion. As you justly remark, Wickam listens to Lizzy with an "apprehensive and anxious attention", indicating he's alarmed about something. If the thought had come to him of bribing Darcy as a possible future brother-in-law, why would he be anxious? Wouldn't it be possible instead that he started to fear that Darcy had revealed the whole truth to Elizabeth, and his mask was about to fall? And in that case, wouldn't ruining the reputation of Lydia be a clever means of ruining that of the entire family, thus discrediting any further revelation from Elizabeth?

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Wickham listens to Lizzy with "anxious attention" during the conversation because, presumably, his first thought is worry about exposure. Once he is in Brighton, and Lydia is around, perhaps he reviewed the conversation and how he might be able to use it to his own advantage.

[@tahneeedwards9139]

By that logic marrying Lydia effectively silences Elizabeth because any blot to his reputation smears their own.

[@TrulyMadlyShallowly]

I'd assumed the same from this passage: that Wickham was anxious for a full exposure of his character by Elizabeth - not just his lies about Darcy, but perhaps even his attempts at winning Georgiana. No matter how shameless he is in general, this must put him at a disadvantage when trying to win people over to act on his behalf (which he is probably aware will remain a necessity). I think that, until that point, he felt quite comfortable because of being received at Longbourn. He always struck me as very insightful when it came to people and society, and the invitation must've been unexpected. Lizzy's words drive the point home that exposure from her can make everything more difficult for him still. Or that's how I interpreted this. But it's interesting to think how he must have read the deeper layers in her words.

[@Sciencegrinds]

@@TrulyMadlyShallowly Interesting that you say that Wickham was very insightful and could read people and society. Typical gambler, picking up on any tells would have to have been one of his skills, because he is getting near the end of his career as a gambler in the current group of society in Brighton and Meryton both. To have made it thus far without unmaking his dishonourable nature means he was good at reading and appropriately responding to people in general, and women in particular. I'd say he and Denny, along with other soldiers share "locker room" talk, which is why even if Denny wasn't specifically told about the elopment with Lydia he knew enough to suspect that Scotland was not on Wickham's itinerary.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@Sciencegrinds Yeah, but I don’t think he is good at gambling. Just because you do it a lot doesn't mean you are good at it. I personally think he's bad at it. Otherwise he wouldn't have had so manny unpaid debts when he left.

[@NR-fg2qc]

This is the best random recommendation I've had for a long while

[@johnbell9430]

I'm so glad you picked up on this new channel of revenge right at the end of your video. I firmly believe that a number of other characters in the novel had observed how taken Darcy was with Lizzie (although Lizzie fails to acknowledge it) and that Lydia was a convenient means for exacting further revenge on Darcy for Wickham.

[@karenrapoport7852]

I swear, I’ve been binging all of your P&P lectures and I seriously feel like I’ve taken a college course in Jane Austin’s P&P and received an A. I think at this point I will call myself an expert. Also, I love your greeting at the beginning of every video. Thank you so much for this channel. :)

[@p_nk7279]

He was fleeing the regiment, maybe he told Lydia, she said hey I’ll come with you, he said why not. A sexual opportunity and he was fleeing anyway. Lydia clueless as to what it would mean later.

[@cat_pb]

She was not clueless for sure.

[@stephanien6237]

I think the book implies that she would not have gone with him had she not thought they were going to marry. There is a difference between a young woman who says “I reject current societal standards and want to have sex now. And I understand and accept the consequences of my actions” vs “I really want to have sex now, and thus hot guy says we will elope and get married - and then I can lord that over all my sisters”. The second is less of a powerful woman who takes her own destiny into her hands-it is a rash decision by a flighty teenager who was duped by an older man who definitely knew better.

[@2degucitas]

Isn't that treason? Won't he face consequences?

[@janedunsworth8728]

@@2degucitas certainly not treason; even today, going AWOL is not THAT big of a deal unless it's desertion from active combat. If it's a choice between debtors' prison and going AWOL, going AWOL might well have been the lesser risk for an officer who had some leave coming anyway.

[@2degucitas]

@@janedunsworth8728 ok thanks

[@christineherrmann205]

Wickham is a classic narcissist. Lizzie unmasks him, rejects him, and he realizes (even subconsciously) that he can revenge himself on her and Darcy at the same time.

[@charitysheppard4549]

I just found your channel, and I am happy I have. You made me think of these characters in brand new ways, which is always exciting. Seeing old familiar souls in a brand new light is just brilliant!.

[@stephaniediasz4248]

Thank you very much for this video. Your way of breaking down scenes and going back to them to further reflect upon, make understanding this so much easier. Much appreciated. Keep doing what you do. I'm subscribing.

[@thomassmith6232]

An utter cad. Wickham was lucky he hadn't been challenged to a duel by some disgruntled father or brother. Or maybe he had been and just fled the area.

[@Sciencegrinds]

I think we would have been told. I don't think he had progressed that far and he is too much of a coward to do the noble thing, like show up for a duel. I think until Darcy forces him to marry Lydia he is likely to end up like Beau Brummell.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

I have to confess that some of my favourite lines in the novel are about Mrs Bennet imagining that Mr Bennet will challenge Wickham to a duel: "When he [Mr Gardiner] was gone, they were certain at least of receiving constant information of what was going on, and their uncle promised, at parting, to prevail on Mr. Bennet to return to Longbourn, as soon as he could, to the great consolation of his sister [Mrs Bennet], who considered it as the only security for her husband’s not being killed in a duel" (ch.48). I don't think Mr Bennet would propose one in the first place, and I don't think Wickham would turn up if he had!

[@kellymcphaul2793]

Excellent idea. Perfect. Or even just been roughed up by some brothers or cousins.

[@marydeniselyons3847]

I suspected that the elopement might have been a swipe at Darcy. Darcy obviously had feelings for Lizzy, so why not destroy her family's reputation in order to get back at him for spoiling Wickham's plans with Georgiana? Best case scenario, Lydia would be leverage for blackmail, failing that - revenge. I really enjoyed the lecture.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Thank you.

[@StephShrubb]

I agree! I always thought it was a spiteful act against Darcy, to make it harder or impossible for Darcy to marry Lizzy. Thankfully Darcy is a solutions man!

[@ladynekochan]

Great point! I never thought about it in this way.

[@ritan2]

Yes, I agree. I think it was also a pre-emptive strike against what Lizzie might reveal about him. He recognizes that Lizzie has changed her opinion of Darcy and of him. He doesn't know why, but he must suspect that Darcy told her everything. By "eloping" with Lydia, he undermines the credibility of Lizzie and the Bennets and invalidates anything she might reveal about him. The elopement has three big benefits - 1) destroys Darcy's relationship with Lizzie, 2) undermines the Bennet's/Lizzie's credibility so no one will take what she knows about Wickham seriously, 3) gets him a "traveling companion" whom he can easily dump when he is through with her. He's nothing if not clever.

[@stephanien6237]

Did Wickham know Darcy had feelings for Lizzy? Last he saw them, Darcy was pretty cold to her. No?

[@curtandoscar]

Absolutely wonderful channel. Thank you. Have loved Pride & Prejudice since I first read an old two-part volume in 1988. Had no idea there were such channels that would discuss the book. Thank you again. A total pleasure.

[@arienschatzi]

I think you did a great job. I think it is worth mentioning too, that since he is obviously broke, Lydia's having some money in her possession might have led him to find her an even more preferable as a companion to going alone, potentially giving rise to his suggesting elopement making her believe it possible even if he has no intention to. What is another lie, after all, and she could fund their trip.

[@debshaw680]

I remember thinking most of these points when reading it for the first time. It’s really a masterfully subtle book. Especially in a world that no longer has the same rules.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

It is indeed! It's great fun to unpick all the threads

[@laurafideua4181]

Agreed. There is nothing in this review that is news for the reader, but I must say that I really enjoyed a deep study of all those subtleties we all perceived but never bothered to reflect upon.

[@callmeneutrino7136]

@@laurafideua4181 I'm simply not as smart as you: she did clarify some things I had not understood, myself. True, I read the book decades ago, and saw the A&E adaptation more than once, but I clearly missed a lot of detail and insight. It's probably safest not to speak for everyone.

[@laurafideua4181]

@@callmeneutrino7136 Sorry if I came across as rude, it was not my intentention at all. I did not mean to assume that everybody understood absolutely every detail of the book (I definetely did not, I don't know much of the period and English is a foreign language for me so I'm quite sure I missed plenty of details) but that they *are* all in the book - avaliable for the reader and quite often perceived even if we lack the knowledge to fully understand them. That's a good point for this review for it reflects upon facts that are avaliable to the reader instead of trying to create a theory based on assumptions made by the reviewer (which may or may not be shared with other readers), as often found in other KZbin videos. Again I'm sorry if my previous post seemed demeaning - I'm afraid may also lack the skills to explain myself clearly in English, but this is a topic I really enjoy and wanted to share my opinion.

[@callmeneutrino7136]

@@laurafideua4181 , I'm also sorry to have been defensive. But truly, I'm not the most effective reader, so it truly IS helpful to me to have insights like these. I read with my (older) daughter and she picks up on hints and details so much faster than I do, so I recognize my weaknesses with reading. It is because of this I would not want to discourage in any way someone who is willing to go through the finer details and explain them. Anyway, no hard feelings!

[@michellerhodes9910]

He is every bit as much of a scoundrel as I imagined. What shocked me was Mr. Bennet's naivety about motives for seduction; money is not the only attraction to a womaniser and his apology to Elizabeth for ignoring her advice about Lydia and Brighton was most apt. Wickham is a more unsavoury version of Willoughby (Sense and Sensibility) who likewise seeks an heiress in his own interests. They both appear initially as a romantic hero. I often pondered on Wickham's early life when he and Darcy were raised almost like brothers which obviously left him with unrealistic expectations because in spite of the elder Mr. Darcy's affection he was not family.

[@simoneg.707]

@4Freedom4All I think they are more alike than we first see. Willoughby doesn't ruin Marianne, but he ruins Eliza and abandons his child. And his actions nearly led to Marianne dying. He didn't intend that, but he knows that she suffers severely and still he continues with his marriage plans. Not to say that he only marries Miss Grey, because of her money. We never hear much about the lies, he must have told her. Wickham and Willoughby are both primarily interested in their own wellbeing, they are not really concerned who will get hurt along the way. Willoughby wants Marianne, because she makes him happy, not because he wants to make her happy. I think Elinor sees right trough him in the end.

[@jenniedarling3710]

Willoughby may not have destroy Marianne's life but he did get another young lady pregnant and not marry her.

[@dottiewi661]

Yes they’re both fortune hunters. But Willoughby actually did, what Wickham was trying to do with Lydia, seducing Eliza Williams and and abandoning her pregnant, because he got the thrill he wanted and she wasn’t „marriage material“ for him. And with Marianne he was selfish at first. But felt more for her because of more than just physical attraction, they had a lot in common, their interests and their dispositions. They wouldn’t have been happy as a couple as Willoughby was truly selfish and Marianne would feel the disappointment that he wasn’t as ideal as on the surface, because apart from all these feelings she is an intelligent woman. Lydias feelings for Wickham are more superficial, physical and she is described by Lizzie as thoughtless, which is, I think, the key word for Lydia. I think we can compare Lydia better to Ms Williams, in that the outcome of their seductions was very different, and also the reaction of their friends was very different (in part because of that outcome). With Ms Williams everyone has compassion because she was abandoned, and pregnant, and because we think of her as naive and easily led, and not much out in society, whereas with Lydia, as someone „ out“ and Self-confident and flirty, thoughtless, not able to be interested in knowledge, we are much less empathetic, because we think „oh dear, what has she done now“ and she never appeared as „virtuous“ compared to other Austen girls. And that, I think, is what doesn’t really translate well into today’s time. However shallow Lydia‘s feelings might have been for Wickham, she would get our compassion , when we found out of Wickhams intentions to „use and abandon“ her, and obviously we would, condemn someone like Willoughby, who leaves one girl pregnant, flirt with the next, act all attached and leave her for a third, rich girl.

[@Sciencegrinds]

He was not even the second son. Not an Andrew or Harry.

[@tracyroweauthor]

@4Freedom4All I think Marianne Dashwood all but says that she prefers a passionate husband (though couched in more genteel terms)

[@Ginpad]

I've always thought Wickham's running away with Lydia was highly improbable, a mistake on Jane Austen's part, but you've explained it beautifully. Thank you.

[@susanlee5712]

I love your channel and look forward to each episode. Thank you for continuing our lifelong education!

[@jademcl4727]

I am really starved for pride and prejudice character analyses

[@RachelleKates]

I always thought maybe there was a touch of revenge towards Elizabeth, since she revealed to Wickham she knew his true nature, and sided with Mr. Darcy. He would have been furious, and paranoid she would tell others of her knowledge. He was probably completely spiraling, knowing Darcy was actually speaking out against him. Since his reputation ended up being ruined anyway, I think he thought it would be great fun indeed to take down Elizabeth’s family with him, for siding with Darcy.

[@ultimatebishoujo29]

I can definitely see that

[@judyr0berts]

I partly agree with you, @RachelleKates. But, if we look at this through the contemporary lens of narcissism, as some other commenters have, I think there was more to Wickham's motivations than the fun of taking Elizabeth's family down with him. A narcissist surrounds himself or herself with flying monkeys who shore up the narcissist's position. A narcissist does not confine his/her recruitment efforts to the present, but cultivates a cadre of minions who will serve his/her interests in the future. Because of the social norms of the time and place, Lydia's indiscretion was like a loaded gun pointed at the Bennet family's collective head. Thus, however each of them may have felt about Lydia's actions, all of the Bennets were obliged to rally around her and put as good a face on her marriage to Wickham as possible. For multiple reasons, even Darcy volunteered to be one of Wickham's flying monkeys, up to a point. Unlike most enablers, however, Darcy was conscious of what he was doing. And, as other commenters have noted, Darcy handled the situation intelligently. I echo other commenters' observations that Pride and Prejudice, as well as some of Jane Austen's other novels, reveal to us how vulnerable women were to being sex trafficked during the Regency Period. (But then, alas, there are more vulnerabilities in that arena, even today, than many of us realize.) I really enjoy Dr. Cox's analyses of literature, especially some of the more obscure plot elements that, like this one, are often missed.

[@reelmermaid8844]

Excellent video! I've read this book many times, as it's one of my favourites. Your outstanding instruction added an extra layer of understanding, for me, on Wickham's character and just how dark his actions were. Looking forward to reviewing more content from you! Cheers from Canada!

[@jpal1080]

Oh my goodness! Your. Channel was suggested and I am thrilled to find your comprehensive look at these amazing books. Thank you!!❤️

[@maybelleclark2623]

He liked fifteen year old girls, he had no real interest in her. Lydia was easily manipulated. She was an easy target for a good time. It's also possible he had an had some knowledge about Darcy's feelings for Lizzy, especially after Lizzy said knowing Darcy had improved her opinion of him. If so, it stands to reason that he was willing to risk the reputation of the entire Bennet family to get a pay off from Darcy.

[@monicacreator3168]

I don't think he likes anyone. I think he likes naive girl or women he can get something out of. So, I don't think he likes 15 years old

[@maybelleclark2623]

@@monicacreator3168 I kind of think they are one and same. Besides, she wasn't the first fifteen year old he tried to get with he just wanted the other girl's fortune. Lydia doesn't have that but, she is ignorant enough to fall for anything.

[@patricias5122]

Yes -- and initially he had no intention of marrying Lydia, at all. He was strong-armed into marrying her, through Darcy and The Bennett's uncle. That, and 10,000 pounds and his debts paid. (A large sum of money then!)

[@foxykc]

My thought on Wickham being taken back by Lizzie's defense of Darcy is that Wickham isn't suspicious of a romance between them as much as he is afraid that Darcy spilled the beans about the real nature of Wickham's relations with the Darcy family, his throwing over of the "living' and his treatment of Georgiana. As long as he, Wickham, was in charge of the narrative he could spin it any way he liked. But with Lizzie knowing the truth, Wickham is now fearful she'll reveal all of this in Merryton and "ruin his reputation" as it were. If he had been planning to blackmail Darcy, he would have gotten hold of him straight away after bedding Lydia, which he did not.

[@beverlybenson9981]

I came across your channel tonight and noticed the title of your video. I love your analysis of the characters. It puts more thoughts of what, why, and how the characters interact within the story. BTW, Pride and Prejudice is my favorite Austen book.

[@CurtRowlett]

The elopement of Lydia and Wickham was very much puzzling to me, both in the book, and in the various film versions of Pride and Prejudice. Your explanation really helped to clear up this mystery for me. Many thanks for a great presentation.

[@valeriearvidson1745]

A lot of the blame for this situation rests squarely on the shoulders of an indifferent and lazy father, who would not provide the leadership and teachings that a young 16 girl desperately needs.

[@vcoonrod]

Right. The father often said how ignorant the girls were. He likely felt they were uneducable. He did them wrong.

[@EMSpdx]

THIS. And even after Mr. Bennett realizes this, he also understands himself to know that he just simply....doesn't care since the problem had been sorted out for him. Yeesh!

[@EMSpdx]

@Sara Bee THIS PART. The emotional distance is there because to him, they are basically burdens. He does love them, but he does not parent them.

[@furiscafynn6275]

As a character, I enjoy watching/reading him - but you hit the nail on the head.

[@teartaye]

"Meh, she's not pretty, smart, or rich enough for anyone to bother "preying" upon her. She'll be fine!"

[@evelynmatt2000]

It makes me think of one conversation he had with Elizabeth about just being just a lowly officer. If he joined regiments across the country to escape his debts. Then he would be a new officer every time, and would never climb the ranks in his regiment. Instead that comment alone seeming to just be slighted by his Colonel for promotions. In truth he probably was never in a regiment long enough to receive a promotion. So right away he is showing his deception even though as a reader or Elizabeth we don't catch on. I didn't even realize this until your video today. Thank you for that, more analysis is defiantly key.

[@blixten2928]

Good point!

[@Sciencegrinds]

Excellent point. He is skilled, experienced and has an MO that works - that took practice.

[@krve16]

How do you think he became an officer in the first place; no rank in society, no money, no references? I would venture he would have difficulty rising above even corporal with his character?

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Ha! - thank you. P&P is so well structured - the little snippets in conversation & observation can mean one thing in isolation, but can change when seen in the broader context of the character as a whole. Wonderful!

[@ilikesmokingrocks]

If I recall correctly there wasn't really any climbing in the ranks of the military based on skill and/or seniority. The navy had a lot of skill based upward mobility, which we see in Persuasion and Mansfield Park. But from what I recall you could only move up in the ranks of the regular military by purchasing a higher ranked and more expensive commission (I believe there was some age and time served requirements for some of the higher ranks). But in the end considering Wickham's financial/social situation and how lowly he was in the military he seemed to have little hope of rising in the ranks without a cash influx even if he was highly skilled and stuck around in the same regiment for a while.

[@ajh2295]

I definitely knew this already - just kind of let my autoplay run, but I really like the textual examples you pull and how you take your time with it. It's relaxing to listen to.

[@cristinav5084]

Watching from Spain, thank you so much! Love how thoroughly you explain this point of the novel!

[@sarah4hp]

I actually always felt the "why Lydia?" question was partly answered by her being Elizabeth's sister, and thus it would also hurt HER when her sisters scandal became known. I think he took real offense to her slighting him and defending Darcy, basically revealing that she had learned the truth and now took Darcy's side instead... I mean, that is just MY reading of his character, but he seems the right kind of petty and vindictive man for that to have at least ADDED to the attraction if nothing else.

[@floraposteschild4184]

Good point! And you may be the first person to have made it. Congratulations. And it would not only hurt her feelings. He would be smart enough to know it would destroy the reputations of all the girls.

[@b.f.2461]

As I posted above, Wickham’s modus operandus seems to be “you annoy me, I’ll hurt someone very dear to you. Not physically, but in a way that will ruin them.”

[@sarah4hp]

@@floraposteschild4184 True. He would kind of be making sure that after her rejection and censuring of him her reputation was so ruined that no other man would basically ever want her, nor any of her sisters.

[@sarah4hp]

@@b.f.2461 True. He did the same with Darcy's sister Georgiana. Of course, in that case it would also have made him rich beyond his wildest dreams if his plan had succeeded, but it was also a way to use her to get revenge on her brother by using the person that was the most important to him. Such a horrible man 🤮

[@theduke5355]

I thought it was always clear. He didn’t care for the consequences of his actions so when he got the hots of Lydia, he manipulated her. He had no intention of marrying her and didn’t care if she would be ruined. Only after Mr. Darcy paid him a considerable sum did he turn the tryst into an elopement.

[@misspriss2482]

This.

[@davidward805]

I love your analyses! They bring me much closer to a book that I truly love.

[@maxalberts2003]

Thank you a thousand times for this glorious video!

[@marilynmcphail9221]

I’ve often thought Wickham brought Lydia along to amuse himself while he hides from his debtors. I kind of wanted Wickham to be sent off to North America to fight in the War of 1812. Lydia was young, vain and silly but she didn’t deserve a cheating, gambling scoundrel for a husband.

[@kathyp1563]

At the end, Wickham is transferred to the "Regulars". I once looked up the difference between "Regimentals" & "Regulars". If I understood correctly, in the "Regulars" he could be sent overseas to war. Napoleon Wars, maybe?

[@henryahoy]

16 and she's in a trap everyone can see but her, too heartbreaking

[@sybillestahl8646]

Marilyn McPhail I'm with you. Doesn't the book actually say as much? He had to run because of his debts, and wouldn't deny himself an agreeable companion in his flight?

[@Sciencegrinds]

Lydia is almost a reflection of Wickham. She has no sense of pride in herself. She has no shame. She has no sensibility in regards to her family. She only cares about getting what she wants for herself. She wanted Wickham. She wanted marriage and she beat all her sisters to the respectability of becoming a married woman. She is a gambler too - and a high risk one at that. She is as selfish as Wickham, as blind to him as Lizzie was initially to Darcy, as Mr Bennett was to Mrs Bennett. She is also the baby, and spoiled by her mother.

[@happybkwrm]

I read that the regiment he was sent to died at Waterloo. (Although Jane Austen couldn't know this) Lydia was probably a widow in a few years.

[@janepstk]

Your synopsis opened my eyes to a sad portion of the book that previously I had just taken as a vehicle to get Lizzie and Darcy together, yet now I see it as a statement of the actual cruelly based commodity trading that women had to contend with during this time....This story is still my go to book as the epitome of a romance novel. Thank you for elucidating this aspect of the novel....

[@ruk3764]

Great video. Love your calm informative and entertaining style. So relaxing to listen to. Thanks.

[@bonniefuller858]

Just found your website, and have to say, I really enjoyed, and agreed with you and your suppositions totally...one of my favorite J.A. books (nudged out just a tad by Persuasion), and after listening to this, will go back to read P&P again, just for the sheer joy of it...thank you, and since I subscribed, I will watch for any future videos🌹

[@lorenachas3738]

I remember thinking the first time I read this novel "Darcy is going to marry Elizabeth and be the brother in law to Wickham? That's love right there". Because really, if he stays with Lydia, I can see him bribing Darcy through Lydia and Lizze QUITE A LOT .

[@sleepyheadsarah]

At the end of the video, you mentioned how Wickham became very focused on Lizzie's revised impression of Darcy later on in the book. That Wickham clocked their new intimacy and was probing to find out Lizzie's thoughts on Darcy marrying someone else. I had always interpreted this as Wickham trying to figure out if Darcy had revealed to her the secret past with Georgana. He was self-interested as always and probably wanted to see if Lizzie would blow his cover before he had time to leave town.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

I think worry and self-preservation were his immediate thoughts. But reflection on this conversation might well have percolated in his mind while he was in Brighton. The final chapter seems to suggest that he still thought about it, and still thought about how he could use this information to extract money: "He bore with philosophy the conviction that Elizabeth must now become acquainted with whatever of his ingratitude and falsehood had before been unknown to her; and in spite of every thing, was not wholly without hope that Darcy might yet be prevailed on to make his fortune" (ch.61).

[@homidjohn]

@@DrOctaviaCox I've wholly enjoyed your very thorough video breakdown on this point, although I'm not so certain about the last point you make. In my humble opinion, Wickham suggesting ulterior motive for Darcy's improved behavior at Lady Catherine's is *(1)* stemming from his hatred of Darcy - he'd ensured before that Elizabeth would hate Darcy and now he was not taking her wholly-improved opinions of him well at all. He felt he needed to defy that at once with something and the thing he comes up with *(2)* is a projection of his own perpetual ulterior motives.

[@babybutchie]

Thank you, Dr Cox, for these splendid analyses of literature, with your spot-on textual references.

[@shaghayegh151]

You are amazing! I can’t begin to explain how much I enjoyed it! Thank you!

[@trinkab]

A theory I entertain occasionally: The revenge Wickham is having is upon Darcy. After years of living with Darcy, he is able to spot when Darcy has fallen for someone even before Darcy himself knows. Wickham (as a charming manipulator) has a keen sense of people, so he is able to know just what to say to get what he wants (works best on women but occasionally on men.) Having such extensive knowledge of Darcy, Wickham could tell that Darcy harbored a heart for Lizzie (and spotting that Lizzie has feelings that are swinging towards Darcy's favor) and when he was presented with the opportunity (by Lydia throwing herself at him) to throw the family of Darcy's favorite into disrespect (which Darcy could not possibly let happen) he took it. EDIT: I typed this before finishing the video... sooooo... yeah!😊

[@janedunsworth8728]

How could he spot that when he and Darcy were never together?

[@trinkab]

@@janedunsworth8728 when they meet in the street with Elizabeth and Jane and Bingley. It wouldn't take much for Wickham to figure out that Darcy has an interest in keeping the Bennets status good.

[@carlbook2051]

Even Elizabeth was surprised by Darcy's rescue of Lydia. How could Wickham possibly know? Austen could have easily made this part of the plot by having Wickham contact Darcy after he and Lydia made it to London. Instead Darcy had to hunt for them. It was much more heroic (romantic) for Darcy to act on his own to save Lydia. He did it with no expectation that Elizabeth would change her mind about his proposal. He did it out of regard for Elizabeth, but with no plans for their future.

[@trinkab]

@@carlbook2051 I don't think Wickham knew he would necessarily "rescue" Lydia, but he knew he would want to save the reputation of Elizabeth. Lizzy didn't know Darcy would save her reputation because she did not grow up with Darcy, as Darcy knew Wickham was not fit for being a clergyman, Darcy and Wickham KNOW each other.

[@carlbook2051]

​@@trinkab But don't you think Darcy became a better person by being around Elizabeth? I don't think he was ever bad, but I'm not sure the old Darcy would have rescued Lydia. I guess he wanted Elizabeth to see the best in him. That is so important in novels, to see characters grow.

[@catrionahall9444]

Your last thought about Wickham noting the softening tone Elizabeth uses of Darcy is fabulous. Jane Austen does this quite often, we just have to pay very close attention.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Yes, very close attention! - and there's always something to find.

[@phoebelim5040]

Excellent and thorough analysis, thank you for preparing and sharing this!

[@junemcnamara7499]

You have done a remarkable job explaining and translating the emotion, the times, and talent in making the movie

[@patriciaemerick8360]

I have another thought about Wickham eloping with Lydia. Remember that Darcy says he’s vicious, that gaining Georgina’s fortune is part of him wishing to elope with her but that he can also fine revenge on Darcy by doing so. When Lizzie returns to Longborne after visiting the Collinses she tells Wickham she knows Darcy better, that she’s essentially onto to Wickham’s game. I think Lydia was handy for elopement, but that this gives Wickham opportunity to obtain revenge for Lizzie finding him out and no longer being duped. Another opportunity to be vicious if you will.

[@annainspain5176]

She was there. He had a thing for underage girls. Like many sexual predators he thought he could have a fling with her somewhere else, and then find a bride with money. Of course it doesn't work but predators always think they should have whatever or whoever they want.

[@bethanyhunt2704]

16 year olds weren't "underage" in the 1790s. But they would have been easier to manipulate.

[@juliancain3872]

@@bethanyhunt2704 Lydia I think was... fifteen at the time nearly sixteen. But yeah, they weren't viewed as children back then even legally.

[@Carolinagirl1028]

Agreed that Lydia wasn't considered "underage". Remember Elizabeth tells Lady Catherine that all her sisters are out, meaning they are all considered to be of marrying age. However she was young and easily persuaded, which was exactly what Wickham wanted.

[@annainspain5176]

@@Carolinagirl1028 Doesn't change the fact that Wickham was a predator, player and user though.

[@sandracraft517]

That's how I took it -- Wickham said whatever would get silly Lydia leaving all the others behind so he could have a good time with her and then leave her behind. Probably had no intention of going back to his unit either.

[@shellipayne-patterson5314]

You certainly answered a question that has perplexed me for many years! Thank you!

[@MamaPossum]

Thank you for an insightful analysis! Reading Pride and Prejudice and discussing it with classmates, I was always struck by how quick they were to defend Wickham and Lydia's relationship as having a foundation of more than lust and opportunity. I appreciated how you alluded to the word "angel" in different contexts. Especially as angel of light is the literal definition of Lucifer. The people of Meriton villianized Wickham so much they thought of him as the literal devil. Cant wait to listen to another analysis! Thank you!

[@DrOctaviaCox]

My pleasure Jessica. Thank you.

[@elizabethwhite325]

I always suspected Lydia’s comment in chapter 39 about Miss King’s going to visit her uncle in Liverpool was an inference that Ms. King found herself in “the family way” after her association with Wickham. It would add another evidence for Wickham being the scoundrel he was. I also have wondered about Senior Mr. Darcy’s devotion to raising Wickham just one step outside full family association. Son of his steward? Really? I wonder who ever met Mrs Steward. I have wondered if Wickham wasn’t a natural son of senior Mr. Darcy which would make him a half brother to Darcy and Georgiana. Not unheard of back in the day to have illegitimate children adopted by another family, and who better than the trusted family steward? There is too much tension between Wickham and Darcy to be unconnected.

[@jacquiepittet1757]

Check out some of the Pride and Prejudice vagarites, novels that explore this question as the focus of the story one way or another. There are dozens of them.

[@bwktlcn]

I thought about that as well. Treating the boys the same growing up, sending him to university, no mention he did that for all the children on their property. Just this one child. Half-brothers makes more sense than him picking this one child of unknown background to be a live in playmate.

[@oxoelfoxo]

@@bwktlcn I think it's far more likely that Mr. Darcy was friends with his steward (who were also gentlemen) and wanted to give him and his family as much assistance as possible. And also of course, Mr Wickham was a personable and charming young man who convinced Darcy's father that he was a person worthy of his friendship.

[@katarinaogilvie6662]

Oooooooh!!!!!!!!

[@rebeccam7717]

In other words, Wickham was going to run off with his own half sister (Georgiana)?!? I seriously doubt Jane Austen would have intended such a backstory! I would much prefer to stick to the text on this point, and assume that what appears on the surface is all there is. Darcy was an only child for the greater part of his youth and the steward's son was about the same age and so made a good companion and playmate. Period.

[@astridafklinteberg298]

I always love your analysis!! Keep it up!

[@mamareadsb9455]

I don’t know why this showed up in my recommendations but I’m so glad it did! This has made me remember how much I enjoyed literature classes in college and high school. Fascinating subject and I can’t wait to listen to more videos!