Why Did the Netherlands Send Soldiers to The East Indies In 1945? | Not Just Greed?

In 1945, just months after the liberation of the Netherlands from German Occupation in World War 2, Dutch soldiers were dispatched to its colony, the Dutch East Indies, roughly today's Indonesia, to put down an independence movement led by the likes of Sukarno and Hatta. This was the Indonesian National Revolution, while for the Dutch their concerted efforts to suppress it with military force were called the Politionele Acties - Policing Actions. This video is a direct response to a strain of comments on my first video on the "Netherlands' Vietnam" and specifically looks at why economic incentives and continued colonialism or greed were not the only reasons that the Dutch sent soldiers to the East Indies in 1945. This isn't to say that economic incentives were not a major factor for their involvement, and continued campaigning there through to 1949, however it's important to remember that in this conflict there were no real "good guys," and that this period of history saw great upheaval and tragic mass murders that have largely gone forgotten today in the country where they occurred. I feel it's important not to simply paint this conflict with the narrative of coloniser vs freedom fighter as this greatly oversimplifies the truth. Nor, I should add, should it be seen as barbaric rebels vs heroic Dutch saviours. This isn't a particularly lighthearted video and there are some rather gruesome details included.
Link to my video on "The Netherlands' Vietnam" | Dutch War in Indonesia:
• What was the "Netherla...
Link to William H. Frederick's Article on The Bersiap Genocide:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/...
Link to Elly Touwen-Bouwsma's Article on Indonesian Nationalists' Collaboration with the Japanese Occupation:
www.jstor.org/stable/20071754...
Link to Robert Cribb's article on The Bersiap Genocide:
www.researchgate.net/publicat...
Inside Indonesia's article on the Bersiap Period and how it's been forgotten in modern Indonesia:
www.insideindonesia.org/the-f...
Raid the Merch Market:
teespring.com/en-GB/stores/hi...
Go Fund My Windmills (Patreon):
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Join in the Banter on Twitter:
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Music Used:
Opium - Kevin MacLeod
Ether Vox - Kevin MacLeod
Pyre - Kevin MacLeod
Piano Concerto 23 - Mozart
"Sunday Dub” - Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
#Nederland #Indonesia #WW2

[@alfredthegreatkingofwessex6838]

Boy Hil you have no idea how much we appreciate these videos and all your research. Can’t believe this content is free.

[@historywithhilbert146]

Very kind of you to take some time out of your burh-building schedule to comment, Alfred!

[@alfredthegreatkingofwessex6838]

@@historywithhilbert146 I did it while I was on the toilet. Which is happenings a lot lately, I don’t know why. Didn’t pray hard enough maybe? It’s probably nothing. Come by the hall sometime. I’ll bake you something.

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

*Dutch dudes with swords:* _You stop the spice, you get the slice_ - VOC for most of the last 500 years.

[@mustbeyourimagination8651]

Corruption: im gonna end this man whole career

[@seavpal]

Arkadeep Kundu , 198 years (1602-1800 CE) isn't "most of the last 500 years"

[@meisterproper8304]

@@seavpal Did the spice trade end in 1800 or something?

[@seavpal]

Meister Proper , no, but the VOC did.

[@bigfel3240]

Ya cause that’s the reputation the Dutch have in the World, Smh

[@bjarsa]

As an Indonesian myself, I really love hearing my country's history through your perspective. Since I have lived in the Netherlands for about 2 years, I'm already familiar with what happened during the Bersiap period, which wasn't even mentioned at all in my history class at school. But hearing the stories again, in more detail (like the killings and maiming) really make me view our "heroes" in a different way. I believe more Indonesian should know more about what happened during this period, so that we can be more honest with our self about how the Republic of Indonesia came to be.

[@kykale]

That's also what I hear that when Indonesians found out about the Bersiap period, that they never heard about it in history class. When I was in Indonesia I did an interview on what Indonesians know about the Netherlands and had a small question about what they know about the history: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2nCaZuCqM-sp7c

[@bjarsa]

@@kykale I like your video! very nice Indonesian also. your face looks Indonesian, did your parents came from Indonesia before moving to Netherlands?

[@dr-jack6233]

Say that older people you maybe gonna be hated by them because you know that our school is teaching us to be an ultra natiolistic people that we never trust anyone except our government and that gonna be pretty hard to lecture some real history when almost everyone is a boomer

[@kykale]

@@bjarsa betul! Orang tua dari Jakarta dan Surabaya. Saya lahir di Belanda.

[@kykale]

@@bjarsa Yesterday I also uploaded this video about Dutch words in Indonesia: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6nTlKtjp6qfZpI I still missed filming some words so if you want to help, let me know!

[@Daki400]

These things aren't in the school curriculum here, I think because it is overshadowed in Indonesian minds by more recent events. There was Permesta, Suharto, the monetary crisis of the 90s, etc.

[@TheCat48488]

In the reformation era, history lessons were mostly about non-violent leaders, educators, emancipation characters and equality. They did tell the stories about warriors and soldiers that fought for our independence but they emphasize more towards the former. Interestingly enough, the older textbooks that I read in the library puts a lot more emphasis on independence fighters rather than leaders like Ki Hajar Dewantoro, Kartini, etc...

[@bebekdragon7604]

Kalau angka yg dikasih dia benar 25k, berarti emang nggak signifikan. Kerna waktu jaman revolusi ini 1jt orang mati kerna kelaparan lanjutan dari kemiskinan jaman Jepang, dan sekitar 200k orang mati ngelawan Belanda.

[@dadanghanafi8859]

@@bebekdragon7604 25K saja dibesar-besarkan sama pembuat video ini. Angka yang sesungguhnya diberikan oleh penelitinya adalah antara 3000 sampai 16000. Itupun tanpa bukti foto, hanya berupa cerita-cerita dan estimasi (padahal orang Belanda terkenal sangat teliti dan telaten dalam administrasi). Makanya perlu deterima dengan sikap skeptis (tidak ditentang tapi juga jangan dianggap kebenaran sampai ada bukti-bukti nyata).

[@JuanMatteoReal]

Monetary Crisis of the 90s? Did this affected your neighbor nations such us (Philippines)?

[@Daki400]

@@JuanMatteoReal 1997 Asian Financial Crisis in english. In Indonesian its called Krisis Moneter, the monetary crisis. Was the Philippines affected? Definitely. But if there wasn't deadly mass unrest that resulted in regime change within a year, then the Philippines was less affected by the financial crisis than Indonesia

[@HS-su3cf]

Who would have thought, the Japanese trained PETA.

[@elliot4402]

Oof. Big oof

[@elliot4402]

@ThatoneFriend i originally thought it was the animal company

[@harryblack7323]

@@elliot4402 LOL

[@drawingbritain]

Pembela tanah negara

[@mohammadrickypratama6720]

Atleast, this PETA was more do Good than Bad unlike the other PETA.

[@three.onefourtwo]

I'm an Indonesian, ethnically Chinese, and I can confirm that races were one of many targets in Indonesia until this day, so far, but the government has been trying to ease or erase tensions between the ethnic groups scattered across Indonesia

[@EggyJeff2725]

Hey, another fellow ethnically chinese Indonesian

[@wisnudharmesa8657]

Well racism in Indonesia was born from political(or religion?) tension, but let's just assume the FPI or any racist organization/interest actor never exist, i can see that nobody give a shit about who and what are you from. If you see Ambon conflict for an example, two media news that provoke two different religious group was from one big media company and there were Indonesia General who sell weapon to the rioters to escalated the conflict. My conclusion, Indonesia political is still dirty and undemocratic, everyone have the right to represent their religion, ethnic, ideology and social class in political decision and election.

[@nationalistliberal1320]

@@amjanwaters6142 well they are the ones who keep talking about "asing", which points to "non-pribumi".

[@EdbertWeisly]

@@EggyJeff2725 hello there

[@abcddef2112]

@@nationalistliberal1320 kinda funny of course since they worship arab descent...

[@brianmaphar9685]

Thank you for your vid. It wasnt only the dutch government sending troops from the netherlands. My entire family (all 4 grandparents and their resp families) were born and raised in Dutch East Indies, some toots going back to early to mid 1800s. They never been to holland, yet they kept their dutch passports. Both grandfathers and 3 great uncles were officers in the KNIL. When japan attacked they fought and then all (male/female and children) were interned in camps. Because all dutch wrre interned, the indonesians saw that they had a chance to try and become independent. When japan capitulated, there was this vacuum of who was in charge. My families tried to get back to their homes, only to find indonesians. They then had to fight again, with help from brits. To my families and the many many others, it was a fight for their homes. For the kingdom of the netherlands, it was a fight for their possession/colony. Thats why it was politionele acties, enforced by the military. There were 2, with each being bloody and with warcrimes from both sides. Eventually, with pressure from the USA, the Dutch government agreed to a cease fire and an independent indonesia. My families (1 grandparent pair got married and had kids there) had to decide to become indonesians or to keep dutch passport and "repat" to holland. All chose the latter.

[@mvnorsel6354]

My father was also Dutch/ Indonesian. Out of 7 children he was the only one to return to Sabang.

[@dadanghanafi8859]

Your understanding of Indonesian independence is incomplete. The Japanese already prepared Indonesian independence since early 45 because they already lost many battles in the Pacific to McArthur and can't withhold Indonesia for longer. It has nothing to do with the Dutch being interned, the Dutch already surrendered East Indies to the Japanese in 43.

[@Zestyclose-Big3127]

@@dadanghanafi8859 he wasn't saying that it had anything to do witht he Dutch being interned. He was describing how things felt like from the POV of Dutch descendants

[@guidokeizers2840]

@@dadanghanafi8859 they are not exlusive from each other. Ofcourse the japanese were suporting independece movements AND because there was no dutch/indo/european power after the war (because they were interned) there was the space for these groups.

[@141Travish]

You families should join the new republic back then, to defend their homeland instead of fight for kingdom far away that they've never know where

[@samDbaron]

Thank you so much for covering this Hilbert! I grew up listening to my opa’s stories of being a kid in a Japanese concentration camp on Java. His parents did not survive the ordeal and his Indo half brother disappeared during the conflict. He was also forced to fight as a child soldier and acted as an interpreter during the Indonesian war for independence. He had one story where he and his friends had been captured by the pemudas. The pemudas had begun to dismember them one by one and it was my opas turn. My Opa had closed his eyes when suddenly shots rang out and my Opa assumed that he had been shot and was dead. Some one then grabbed him and shook him, he had been rescued by the Japanese soldiers, the same ones that had been his guards and tormentors in one of the camps he had been in. Months later one of those Japanese asked my Opa for forgiveness. History is complex.

[@ravenknight4876]

I wonder what happened to that Japanese guy. That must have been quite the change in perspective.

[@williamcooke5627]

It's hardly 'strange' that Indonesia does not commemorate the atrocities that its founders committed. in the US you'll find a good deal about the atrocities that Hessian mercenaries in the service of the Crown committed against the rebel colonists, but nothing about the atrocities that the rebels committed against the Loyalists.

[@cv4809]

Every country does the same thing

[@RyujinNoKami]

We didn't formally commemorate our atrocities because after Sukarno's rule comes Soeharto who ruled like a dictator and he used many ways to whitewash our history and erase all of the crimes our heroes commited during our war of independence and during his 32 year rule and that whitewashing history mentality is now deeply rooted in our people's mind especially the older generation that born before the year 1998 because that's when Suharto was forced to resign

[@cdcdrr]

The same happened in the Netherland's 80 Years War against Spain. We remember the 'Sea Beggars' as heroic corsairs fighting against Spanish oppression and for religious liberty. But we tend to forget that, letters of marque or not, a pirate will still be a pirate. And numerous staunch catholic Dutch who refused to convert were killed for being 'Spaniards'. Although William the Silent escapes some of the criticism, being a moderate protestant seeking to place the Netherlands under the protection of a more tolerant king rather than start a revolution, there is no point hiding the fact that he was fighting a war, and wars often turn ugly.

[@comradekenobi6908]

@@cdcdrr the best pirate I've ever seen

[@RyujinNoKami]

@Kelas Enterprise they took pride from those killings to instill fear to their enemies and as a propaganda tool

[@grgrsms1]

This is a very interesting narrative. I'm surprised that in Indonesia the curriculum doesn't teach this. Over here it 's mostly seen as a heroic struggle against colonialism and that is what the curriculum teaches you. And again amazing video!

[@orange6721]

Yeah, that's honestly a bit weird, or we maybe trying to hide that part of history.... maybe. i know about this indonesian history from books and movie.

[@ianpieter4738]

What? It may be in the current years. But in late 90, 80,70s and before, all the students know about this.

[@Taffee]

It's understandable why some of these crimes and atrocities are swept under the rug or sometimes even flat-out denied, while the more romantic parts of the independence movement and the heroism is glorified. Thing is, it is important to acknowledge that the more controversial events did happen. Anyway, great stuff mate! Your channel is awesome. Love from Indonesia.

[@dadanghanafi8859]

@@anin871 Tidak salah memang bicara gitu. Tapi jangan sangka Belanda gak nutupin sejarahnya. Mereka jauh lebih buruk, mereka nganggap diri mereka pahlawan di Indonesia (katanya kita orang primitif yang harusnya berterimakasih dikasih bank, ekonomi, pendidikan, jalan, dll) Perang Kemerdekaan saja mereka diajarinya Sukarno dan para nasionalis bunuhin orang Belanda, padahal yang duluan ngebunuhin mereka, dan yang paling banyak bunuhin juga mereka.

[@spacemarinechaplain9367]

Yeah they probably wouldn’t want to put too fine a point on the fact that their national founders actively collaborated with the Japanese to the detriment of their fellow Indonesians.

[@nationalistliberal1320]

@@spacemarinechaplain9367 idk which school you went to, but i was taught that many national figures did cooperate with the japanese in many organizations like putera and bpupki.

[@spacemarinechaplain9367]

@@nationalistliberal1320 I’m not Indonesian but I would have thought that they’d want to hide the fact that their national founders actively collaborated with the Asian version of the Nazis.

[@nationalistliberal1320]

@@spacemarinechaplain9367 they did teach about the colaboration, but didnt mention too much about the negative side, and more emphasis of it being necessary.

[@marianoperezromero3277]

Can we just appreciate how humble he was at the beginning and how understanding he is to his mistakes

[@underballbutter]

To disarm the audience then engage in dutch colonial apologetics.

[@greenefieldmann3014]

"I said 'Malay' when meant 'Indonesian' as the language." * nervous Singaporean looks *

[@brianmaphar9685]

The language spoken by the dutch in indie was indeed a combination of dutch and Malayan. Not cpl dutch or bahasah. Thats why there are still so many malayan words in the dutch language.

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

@Ron Lewenberg By who? I definitely know there was no such ethnic cleansing of Chinese and Eurasians by my people. And what do you mean by that being the reason for SIngapore being independent.

[@Raul_Menendez]

@Ron Lewenberg No. We became independent when Malaysia kicked us out. We were originally part of Malaysia until Racial Riots broke out with Malaysia priotising more to native Malays such as Jobs, schools, businesses, etc. The chinese on the other hand wanted fair equal grounds. With the malays wanted to celebrate Mawlid, the birthday of the muslim prophet Muhammad. This is the flashpoint where the riots happened. Both goverments are in agreement to surpress the riots and succeeded, but the damage had already been done. With PAP and UMNO political stance. The Malaysian goverment secretly went into meeting. In June 1965, Singapore was kicked out of Malaysia.

[@Raul_Menendez]

@@aimanmarzuqi4804 Probably a foreigner not knowing the proper history. Singapore and Malaysia relationship is more of a brother. They hit each other's backs but at the end of the day they both need each other to survive.

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

@@Raul_Menendez Thanks man. Even today (well not this year of course) me and my family still regularly visited Singapore since we still have so many relatives that are still living there as Singaporeans. In the end I agree, it was probably the best for Singapore to leave Malaysia. As sad as it was.

[@rozakfassah7730]

32:40 onwards: I would rather say that the Indonesian independence is the culmination of the struggle that had been taken by Indonesian youth since the beginning of Ethical Policy by the Dutch in 1901. I would even say confidently that Indonesia is product of Dutch occupation itself, because all intellectual actors behind Indonesian independence were Dutch-educated and already prominent long before the Japanese came. What I saw from (most of) western sources about Indonesian independence is that the narrations are always centered on Soekarno-Hatta while there are actually a lot of main actors that play important roles, such as Muhammad Yamin (who founded the Pancasila, national ideology) and Oerip Sumohardjo, the first General of the Army who was in fact a Major in KNIL and was also interned during the Japanese occupation. In fact, many commanders of TNI during the war were Dutch-trained (i.e. AH Nasution and TB Simatupang). The demand for Indonesia independence had appeared long time from the formation Indische Partij in 1913, Youth Pledge in 1926&28, speech for Indonesia independence in Volksraad and even Indonesian Communist rebellion in 1926, and none of these movement came from Soekarno-Hatta. There was also some sort of social apartheid among Europeans, Indos, Chinese, Arabs, and Natives (some Molukkers enjoyed privilege if they joined KNIL) during the Dutch colonial era which also fueled the anger of Indonesian "low-classes" which was then exploited by the Japanese with a promise of independence (which might also explain why the Japanese occupation in Indonesia was more welcomed than in other regions such as the Philippines, Malaya, or Singapore). So there are actually more events and more support that lead to the Indonesia independence 17 August 1945. And to say that the independence is Japanese-made, it is wrong, because the independence was proclaimed without permission from the Japanese and it was motorized by Pemuda who wanted the independence earlier. In fact, the Japanese were active to try to stop the proclamation broadcast and disperse the Pemuda gathering afterwards. Actually I got this from a 1976 Dutch documentary show by VPRO titled "Indonesia Merdeka" that Soekarno-Hatta preferred somebody else to be the proclamator of Indonesia independence such that Indonesia independence can be viewed truly as the will of Indonesian people, and surprise surprise 75 years later this video's conclusion proves their worries. I wouldn't also relegate Indonesian Revolution as "Javanese revolution" just because the center of politionele acties was in Java. This would discount the blood shed in the Battle of Medan Area (1945), Battle of Margarana in Bali (1946), and of those who were killed by Korps Speciale Troepen in South Sulawesi (why would the Dutch send troops and kill there after all if it is just Javanese revolution?). There are three main founding fathers of Indonesia: Soekarno, Hatta, and Sjahrir. Two of them were West Sumatra people, they are Minang, not Javanese. When Jogjakarta fell during Operatie Kraai, 19 December 1948, we formed an emergency government in Bukittinggi, West Sumatra and our first airplane was bought with Aceh people's money. Van Mook might have formed many states after Linggajati agreement and it remained so during the Round Table Agreement under the term United States of Indonesia where Republic of Indonesia just one of its states and held no majority, but these states were very unpopular for the common populace, so much so that many had integrated to the Republic of Indonesia by March 1950 and no states remaining by August 1950 other than Republic of Indonesia. Most were lead by regional nobles who had enjoyed the fortune during the Dutch rule. So I think it's not true to just say that. Sorry for my bad English. I love the Netherlands just like home, no hard feeling 🇮🇩🇳🇱

[@agro784]

Great rozak very objective Hilbert used some people opinions as a resource , which of cource has a lot of interests

[@wenderis]

I will add Tan Malaka as the other founding father. Not Javanese, a Minang like the other two. But, yes I mostly agree on the gist of your argument. I dont think Hilbert read neutral and/or primary Indonesian sources in his research.

[@143budikuncoro]

Good for you Sir The narator is trying to hard to become a historian Making assumption more then geting the fact staright

[@jakegrigg4142]

Im Australia but I'm an Indonesian speaker, been here for ages Bang! Semangat 💪🇮🇩🇮🇩

[@teofilustaka6873]

Wah, terimakasih saudara

[@palmer8278]

Y'all gay

[@nielk.]

@@palmer8278 what

[@zeroeightniner]

@@palmer8278 what

[@creativepop8196]

@@palmer8278 what

[@MikaAndroid]

As an Indonesian myself, it's really nice to watch videos about our history from a non-indonesian youtuber. It allows me to see how was the Indonesian war of independence seen in other countries

[@abcddef2112]

One correction fascism as an ideology especially supporting Indonesian independence have been present since before ww2 even before Japanese come. Some prominent member were member of Volkraad, with one famous member Muhammad Thamrin. Just look at the Parindra symbols and their ceremony commemorating his death in 1941. Nazi salutes, costumes, youth movements, racial rethorics, it almost looks like scene from europe. Definitely the fuels were colonial racial system in place. But of course the Indonesian independence movement is multitude and complex this is only one part of Indonesian independence movement, there are communist, islamist, and nationalist groups as well, whose have same independence goals but have different idea on what form of Indonesia. They fought each other as often as they fight the dutch, though that still is not a valid reason for Dutch 'police' to interfere though, as the independence was already proclaimed. Unless of course Netherlands does not recognize Indonesian independence at that date. Though that means curiously even now Netherlands do not recognize 4 millions of its citizens who have died in what is now Indonesia in their WW2 memorials. Or viewed another way Dutch Empire was the largest muslim majority empire after the Ottoman collapse in WW1. 2. Furthermore into the video you talked about Indonesia as a not natural state that is true. United Indonesia as a concept was formed in multiple youth congress (last in 1928 which was held in a chinese-indonesian supporters home joined by multiple youth groups) in opposition to colonial dutch east indies, OR independent separate states that was pushed by the Dutch when the colonial situation were clearly untenable, especially Van Mooks idea. That is why ‘devide et impera’ is always taught, and the United State of Indonesia was seen with suspicious eyes by most nationalist at the time. When you say there is some movement in pemuda to define ‘indonesia’ as ‘Javanese’ or ‘Muslim’, by attacking these minorities. I have to say you are reaching and even repeating the talking points made by the dutch government at the time, used as arguments against independent united Indonesia. Those genocides anf killings are better understood as expression of retributions. I definitely do not condone such actions but their motivations was not to make a more javanese or muslim Indonesia. Its not a coincidence most of the attack are against groups that have benefitted in some way from the colonial system. Indo was the manifestation of foreigner masters almost equal to the pure blooded dutch with full rights, Chinese or foreign orientals were mostly second class citizen who as merchants profitted by their position and keep native competitors poor. Native minorities mostly christians were because of their religion were more ‘trusted’ by dutch system to be KNIL soldiers. They are all basically collabolators of the system, the boots on the ground who did the dirty works to uphold the system. Look at Sutomo speech its a better explanation to that compared with ur hypothesis for making a javanese indonesia. While he has a title it is a honorary title, he never did lead as general for TNI. Looking at Soekarno speech how often he mention his balinese roots for his arguments for unity. I think you cherry picked evidence from him. On the Chinese historically they are split. There are many interesting reasons. One example being that Kuo Min Tang and CCP also did have proxy battle in Indonesia at the time. This is a generalisation but usually the richer you are the higher likelihood that you would support the status quo=supporting dutch. For example Tjabang Atas groups are usually considered elites and have even intermarried dutch so they definitely more supportive of Netherlands. These forms groups like Po An Tui which tried to defend plantations and the likes. They also have ties with Kuo Min Tang. On the other hands many of the chinese lower to middle class supported independence by publishing nationalist newspaper like sin po. Participate in youth congress, participate in BPUPKI in drafting constitution and the likes. Some are smuggler working for TNI like John Lie. Some as suppliers for TNI which basicly a start of their conglomerates. Interestingly both survived, examples include: Lauw-Zecha family founder of Aman hotels were tjabang atas though like many other they moved to Singapore. While lippo groups founder used to be suppliers for essentials like soap to TNI. Corrections to the regions and ‘javanese revolution’, first most of the indonesian movement was based in Javs because of higher education are centered in java, islanders have to go to java to complete ‘rite of passage’ as Benedict Anderson said I advise you to read his book too why this is not a ‘javanese revolution’. That is why even though most of the rebels was from Java they come from many islands. Students from particular island form their own militia then sail back to their home islands. One such example of this as written by Van Reybrouck on his book of this elderly nurse who recounted sailing back to Kalimantan as a nurse for TNI after having studied in Java. Her experience is typical of Indonesian at the time. A second methods was through exile, when nationalist leaders are captured and exiled they are given platforms to spread their ideas. This can be seen in Papua, Sam ratulangi a Minahasan (manado) was exiled in Papua where he met with locals like Silas Papare which formed the basis of Indonesian militia there. Another was the prison of many indonesian nationalist in boven digoel, that is why some of the nationalist figure like Marthin Indey was former colonial police officers. West Timorese was circled is incorrect there was no west timorese independence movement past or present. You have to separate west timor and east timor. West timor while formerly portuguese had been under dutch east indies system, a part of the requirements for netherlands from purchasing it was the catholics to be protected. That is why after that most of the portuguese clerics was gone and replaced by dutch jesuits. While some portuguese influences remain they are no east timorese. This is different to east timor which was invaded later which retain more portuguese influences. In fact there is a prominent NTT (lesser sunda islands specifically Rote), Herman Johannes a minister and unlike Sutomo he actually has an official title in TNI, as he lead the laboratory arsenal producing bombs. When you say timorese you actually meant east timorese which is not relevant in this time period. Mollucas you have to circle the areas correctly. There is a religious dimension to this, and there is a north and south divide. Most moluccans in netherlands and the one rebelling/or support dutch at the time was from ambon and the surrounding islands. They were what you called elites mostly dutch educated, KNIL and christians. This is the core for ‘South Moluccas’ movement even aru islands and the islands next to it near papua are usually also not included. Most of the north were actually under sultanates who supported Indonesian independence (Ternate and Tidore the most prominent ones, many other sultanates actually supported Indonesian independence) and they are usually muslim, not educated by colonial system, not KNIL and mostly nationalist. That is of course changed when most of the older elites flees to netherlands, newer elites now take their place which tends to be from the north. Of course now you have 2 provinces but the ‘south’ moluccas actually has 50-50 split on muslim christian anyway (not including migrants). That is why you have to be careful when you mention moluccans you actually meant south moluccans or even more specifically the christians one.

[@theprophetofthepastagod5633]

Thanks for the impartial comment, This along with other commenters really gives good insights and perspectives.

[@143budikuncoro]

Good fact that should had been added to the naration A historian should find all of the fact right and not make assupmtion by opinion

[@ethaniskyhilderman7764]

My great grandfather was an Indo during bersiap periods in Bandung city, saved by his Indonesian friends by hiding him in one of their house, during the Bandung sea of fire incident when dutch invaded in 1946 he enlist in Indonesian army the TKR now TNI, he said once bounced enemy grenade with his rifle like a baseball player and that was crazy, unluckily he been shot multiple time in the waist and leg causing him to shuffling walk in his old day. He died in 1998, a real man and real hero.

[@zeroeightniner]

And your dad probably saw the ultimatum that dropped by the japanese. The ultimatum says "Get out of Bandung or be burned" but thank goodness your dad survived, also im sorry if your great grandpa died. Hes really a hero :D

[@yourdailydosee390]

Everbody Gangsta Untill Fish start Talking Indonesian

[@generalfeldmarschallpolycr8118]

And when the Bamboos start to scream "MERDEKA"

[@zeroeightniner]

@@generalfeldmarschallpolycr8118 And when the guns start to scream "BONDO NEKAT"

[@mellonstasty]

Sus

[@MoschusMoschiferus]

That's what Manta Ray said

[@HistoryHustle]

Great extensive study, Hilbert. Indo-Europeans (Eurasians) weren't actually on one foot with the Dutch people. Sure they were seen as better as the local population but they didn't really belong to one group or another. Testimonies from Indo-Europeans from that time talk about loneliness and isolation. Recently a new book by Belgian historian David van Reybrouck has been released. Can't wait to get my hands on this!

[@KoosKansloos1908]

Hallo

[@Christian-mt5jx]

Love your content makker!

[@KoosKansloos1908]

@@Christian-mt5jx dank

[@kykale]

Next year there will be a three part TV series by David van Reybrouck, on his 3 interviews on the independence war with 1) Japanese soldiers 2) Nepalese gurhka soldiers 3) Indonesian soldiers www.ntr.nl/Revolutie-in-Indonesie/423

[@brianmaphar9685]

?? Sorry, but Indos are dutch. Maybe you are talking about the molukkers or people who worked with and for the dutch in dutch east indies? My entire family are indos. And they all had to repat because they had dutch passports. You are correct that, when in holland they were not well received and had to endure many hardships, even though they were dutch citizens but born and raised in Indie

[@Niceguy312373636]

Indonesian here. The massacres were atmost downplayed and at worst were deleted from our records. I'm in my third year of college and although we are very open to talk about it in universities, but the same curiosity on what actually happen couldn't be found at a public level. I could also positively recall the massacres weren't mentioned in high school text books as well. All in all, any kind of violent conflict is just that- violent. I'm happy that the western world is starting to open up their own history, and just wishing that we (Indonesian) would start to do so as well. The difficulty is of course is to try the nation making myth of a heroic struggle of good Vs evil, but people like you help break that myth- so thank you!

[@waffle-waffle5416]

Just some correction, Aceh in no way loyal to the Dutch cause they literally have a War with the Dutch in late 19th century and ended in early 20th just before WW1 resulting in Aceh integration into Dutch Colony (They're the last Indonesian ethnic to be subjugated) and the end of their independent monarchy, Timor was still Portuguese Colony even after Indonesian Independence so they're not loyal to the Dutch although it's true that Moluccan especially Ambonese Loyal to the Dutch because they've been employed by the Dutch as a colonial Army for a long time so it's quite understandable, for Papua I don't know though cause there's some Loyal there's also some who don't. and in my opinion biggest Factor why they're so Violent against European in general was also a product of past grudge since many of Force labor, Exploits and Wars was occurred between 1830-1900 so it's still quite fresh in their memory and when the chance arrives it's just exploded. the same is what happen if the American Civil War ended in a power vacuum and all slaves and black in the south suddenly have a guns I'm sure the rest wouldn't be so different than Indonesian Bersiap period

[@melonnn1436]

Hi, just want to convey a little from a 14-year-old history lover Indonesian girl. I've read about the Bersiap period in a history book, and tbh that also terrifies me. The writer gave details, and I thought, "Uh, seriously, at my age, am I supposed to be able to read gore stuff like this?" but because of my love for history, I keep reading- Won't deny, yes, we do that. Our motto is that we will not give up if we still have the white cloth and red blood. And in those days, the white cloth was really colored with red blood... the victims' blood. I must admit my people were very cruel at that time. Maybe caused by the grudge and pain that had been buried for so long ... But, may I give a little of my opinion? I once read about that 20:24 in a book entitled "Surabaya: Di Mana Kau Sembunyikan Nyali Kepahlawananmu?" by Ady Setyawan. The author has carried out research for years everywhere, traveling around Indonesia, to the Netherlands, to any other country to find what he looking for. The author said that, yes, there was someone who said Soetomo said that. But the author exposes his disapproval and provides an alibi. Damn I forgot the details- I borrowed his book from the library at that time. The author found the first source, in a book (damn, I forgot the details again), but as I can remember it was not written by an Indonesian, and the source was questioned. How could that writer put it that way? Was he there at that time? Has he heard from other reliable sources? Its validity needs to be questioned. And also, in Soetomo's famous speech to arouse Arek-arek Suroboyo's spirit, Soetomo clearly said that "But I warn you once again. Don't start shooting. Only when we get shot, then we will attack them. We show that we are really a person who wants to be free." NB: I tried to translate it as literally as possible. Soetomo clearly emphasized that you should not shoot before you get shot, showing his non-anti-Dutch attitude and still aiming to show that they wanted independence. If so, then why did he suddenly show intolerance to the Dutch in Bersiap period? I think the writer presents another proof that Soetomo was not there at the time but damn I forgot about it. But I personally believe Soetomo cannot possibly be involved (maybe there will be a lot of bias in my opinion, as an Indonesian living in Surabaya-). For Indonesians who want to know more about history, I highly recommend that you read that book. The author even has a Dutch co-author so you can read the story from both sides. The price may be a little expensive, but it will be worth collecting. Or at least, look for that book in the library, like me- But I liked your explanation in its entirety, and was wondering why I only found this video now- And uh, sorry. It's too long. It was not a little opinion at all-

[@Nabium]

Sometimes we deny to ourselves how far the Western world really has come when it comes to being open about the past. Whether it's the Turks denying genocides, or the Japanese ignoring their wartime actions, or the Indonesians ignoring important details in the post-war situation or the entire mass killings of 1965-66. Germans good present day relations with the nations they invaded as well as with Israel is really a testimont of how dealing with your past in a truthful manner is profitable. Most Brits I've talked to have been openly critical about their colonial past, Americans see slavery as a horrible part of their history that needs to be taught in school - meanwhile the Pakistanis I've encountered have just become angry or confused when I ask about the 1971 genocide, and the Turks have been in complete denial of the Armenian genocide(except this one atheist left-wing feminist who's really not your average Turk). And yet I hear again and again claims of European racism and denial of history, coming from Asians in Asia. My own Thai family has explained to me that racism doesn't exist in Thailand. Then when you ask them what they think of the Chinese, you get the most racist answers you could ever imagine. So please Indonesia, start teaching your _entire_ history in your schools. For your own sake as well as for the world's sake.

[@alifm4098]

Well said But unfortunately everytime there's a people trying to lecturing or even teaching real history not based on New Order indoctrination, those people always got threatened by either religious fanatics or remnants of Soeharto New Order symphatizers in order to shut them up.

[@flarvin8945]

@@croatianwarmaster7872 wanting to learn the actual history of one’s nation, is “cult of self hate and guilt?” I do not think so. It is far better than some nationalist fairy tale, which tries to deny the parts of the past that are unpleasant. It is perfectly fine to understand that there are some aspects of a nation’s past, that deserve condemnation.

[@dr-jack6233]

@@alifm4098 agreed and event when you gonna lecture that in front of older people they gonna be hostile and think you maybe are communist or anti nationalist

[@trungduong4040]

I agree with your point. Western countries seem to have come a long way in their approach to history. There is a diversity of viewpoints. I'm from Vietnam, where history teaching is still pretty much one-sided. Although I understand why history is taught in this way (to unite a country and provide a sense of nationhood), it omits many stories and cannot explain conflicted attitudes among different groups of people in my country about history. But hopefully, as more people are educated and tolerant about the past, history can be understood better.

[@SuperSanic..]

You don't know cold war. Suharto conducted genocide with the back of USA. So blaming Indonesia for this is a foolish statement. Even Pakistani genocide on fellow Muslims bangalis were done by US backed military dictatorship. Americans don't know anything about their government. They think they are beacon of hope and democracy. Whereas they supported 73% of the worldwide dictatorship. Now that Americans includes all NATO members.

[@bertnijhof5413]

Let's be honest, the main reason to send Dutch troops to Indonesia was greed. Like the leading Dutch "Christian" politicians said: "Indie verloren, rampspoed geboren" (If the Dutch East Indie is lost, we will witness a disaster in the Dutch economy). All Hilbert talks about for far too long, are the excuses the Dutch used to start a colonial war.

[@artifex2.080]

Hij heeft dat letterlijk gezegd in de laatste video

[@bertnijhof5413]

@Mustachetic Fantastic So what was the main reasons in your opinion?

[@bomba7197]

I'm happy that my school teacher didn't follow the curriculum propaganda he taught us about the killing of Eurasian by Indonesian.. although he never mentioned how which is understandable since it is very disturbing when you described it and won't be good even for high schoolers.

[@InspectHistory]

Wow!

[@bomba7197]

@@InspectHistory wow wkwkwk

[@apalahartisebuahnama7684]

Not as disturbing as my religious teacher telling about "dirty" stories just to make us laugh.

[@bomba7197]

@@apalahartisebuahnama7684 OMG IDK WHY BUT THAT'S EXACTLY THE SAME WITH ME WTF.. TELLING DIRTY STORIES THAT ARE SO PATRIARCHAL EVEN FOR A GUY LIKE ME. IT'S DISGUSTING

[@nationalistliberal1320]

@@bomba7197 its just a joke get over it.

[@asukaainun7473]

it's human nature, I definitely don't support the Dutch and half Dutch massacre but I can see where they coming from. after years and years of colonialism they finally sense freedom, suddenly the suffering became the oppressor the pemuda feeling feasty and burning with sense of vengeance bit the Eurasia is really defenseless because lack of protection from the indonesian leaders and some pemuda definitely know this and carried on with their action knowing their will be no severe punishment coming from the leaders. I know this for a while after a open forum held by my history teacher during university lecture about how independence shape our eventual culture and there's always be an evils around the heroes

[@toade1583]

You say that the concept of Indonesia started with the Dutch, but forget to mention the Srivijaya Empire and multiple other empires that heavily influenced the area, you also forget that most regions in the country, not just Java fought for independence, Sukarno was half Balinese and forget that focusing on conflicts that take place in Java means that the figureheads will be majority Javanese, just as the rebels in Sumatra will be mostly Sunda. Moreover, you acknowledge that the Indonesian populace wanted to be independent and that there was clear discrimination against them, but try to paint the rebellion as a "Japanese invention" when you also make it clear that the rebels worked with the Japanese so that they could be independent. You also don't seem to know about Finland, Sweden and the Baltic countries actions with the Nazis in WW2 because they all openly collaborated with the Nazis to prevent themselves from being taken over by the Soviets and faced no repercussions. The vast majority of Indonesia wanted to be independent, while there has been some insurrections, the so called "desire" to be with the Dutch was pretty over-exaggerated in your video considering the fact that again the vast majority of Indonesians which only 30-40% would be Javanese supported independence. I know we all like to support our family members, but if you look at today, the Dutch colonies that weren't forcefully taken from them are still not independent so it is fair to say that it is very possible Indonesia would not have been independent if it did not rebel. Moreover, your comment about the club but being exclusively Dutch because there was only one non-Dutch member is laughable, not to mention the fact that the non-Dutch member wasn't even a native Indonesian and that there were no native Indonesians in that club, denying blatant discrimination is pretty bad (and downplaying massacres committing by the Dutch army is also bad). It's also weird you acknowledge that Sukarno had no control over the Pemuda gangs, but then try to say the rebels were in kahoots because sutomo, who wasn't with Sukarno, but was with Pemuda was there once. It's seems that you're trying your hardest to attach atrocities to these people to try to make them look bad (by saying they were responsible for labor camps even though the Japanese commonly established labor camps in their own all throughout Asia). Moreover, attempting to call them genocide is a stretch because they were not systematic organized wiping killings to destroy a population, it would be like calling the lynching of black people in the US genocide, it was horrible, but it was not an organized attempt to wipe out every single Black person in the US. Let's face it, Indonesia was the Netherlands most successful cashcow which it needed more than ever for rebuilding itself in WW2.

[@all-lowcostthenile6799]

Bersiap period was probably the darkest part of the Islands history. Survivors and eye witnesses stated "unimaginable horror" and any Indonesian who studied briefly of their history would know that those were the same people who had to endure almost 4 years of Japanese occupation. That really tells a lot huh

[@370530e]

Worse than Gestapu?

[@siswokusumo4263]

Gestapo still follow procedures and intelligent data, indonesian mob quickly chop those who deemed as 'traitors'.

[@mr_movieguru]

It whas a ethnic race massacre, you Indonesian people make some of them a national hero. But Sutomo was just a war criminal. Not strange the dutch soldiers came to defend their people. My family stayed under Sukarno and choose to be indonesian but under Suharto it became more terrible for our mixed blood. My family left to the Netherlands in the 60's. Many brainwashed Indonesian people nowaydays. Know your real history. Not only what you read in some books. Many people in Indonesia only think about the dutch coming to war 1945-1949. It had a reason, the Bersiap actions.

[@all-lowcostthenile6799]

@@mr_movieguru its Sutomo, but you are correct he is a mass murderer, far from a hero to me personally.

[@mr_movieguru]

@@all-lowcostthenile6799 thanks i stand corrected;-) i agree, he was one of the reasons why it escalated.

[@istvanbodnar1533]

I love ur channel hilbert ♥️🇭🇺🇳🇱

[@maximilianolimamoreira5002]

we all do

[@historywithhilbert146]

Thanks my dude!

[@markshepherd3632]

@@historywithhilbert146 mate are you from Northumberland mate. I love your channel. I am local to you living in gateshead

[@palmer8278]

I have a child with three women in Ivory Coast

[@historyofthemortals3756]

Nice video bro, not a lot of people talked about this topic even in Indonesia, peace from an Indonesian, your asian distant brothers, glad someone talked about this, even more suprising when it is the foreign people that cared about this kind of stuff🥰😁😁😇

[@josephkrishnawidyatama195]

Hi, I really love your vids... You really give us Indonesian a new point of view on our struggle to gain independence... But I'd like to say that, in Indonesia's recent education curriculum, our history classes are more transparant, we actually study a lot of atrocities that the Pemuda does, so this video and the video before this really-really helped me on my exams and reports... Thank you so much, keep being awesome and entertaining, love from Indonesia❤

[@Shadowgunner785]

Great video Hilbert. Some of your point i question but I can see you really put a lot of time into researching this topic so I appreciate you doing that for us. Keep up the good content!!!

[@TheCat48488]

A bit of information For Indonesians who were taught in the reformation era, history lessons were mostly about non-violent leaders, educators, emancipation characters and equality. They did tell the stories about warriors and soldiers that fought for our independence but they emphasize more towards the former. Interestingly enough, the older textbooks that I read in the library puts a lot more emphasis on independence fighters rather than leaders like Ki Hajar Dewantoro, Kartini, etc...

[@TheGribblesnitch]

Love your vids man, just want to say that I remember my studies were cut short when I learnt about the Pontianak incident, which was absolutely horrific. From what I’ve learnt, the Dutch are disliked less than the Japanese

[@Christian-mt5jx]

I love history channels on youtube they teach me about topics I would've never known of without them making a video on the topic.

[@kennethsa715]

Great video! Though I only disagree with one point that being it was a Javanese revolution. Yes major ethnic group were more represented than others (the Javanese, Sundanese, etc) but collaborators againts the Dutch were ethnically diverse. Some Chinese Indonesians even supported the revolution and (correct me if I'm wrong) one of the leaders of TNI was a European (I forgot his name however).

[@harryblack7323]

You mean Poncke Princen?

[@jefftan6552]

Very knowledgeable video. Learn so much from this. Thank you!

[@christiannababan9744]

everytime I talk about these stains in our history to fellow indonesians, they think i'm a pro imperialist traitor. even when talking about small scale atrocities commited by revolutionaries that happened in Depok right after independence, people either put on their earphone (pretend not listening) or telling me none of those things happened (eventhough indonesian academia recognize the incident). even worse, many indonesians think these kinds of atrocities are justified because the victims deserve it. The colonial government did many horrible things, but many of the victims didn't deserve that kind of retribution, especially the eurasians and the chinese. My fiancee is a eurasian descent and her grandparents told her stories of these massacres in their hometown and how grateful they are to have survived, many weren't so lucky. I think Indonesians should stop glorifying fiery hate rethorics in their history and start to see our past from a more humanist perspective. The effects can be felt to this day, it inspires people to be hateful. Hate speech and xenophobia everywhere, it has become a shortcut to be popular.

[@archingelus]

Simply put, to me this is called "baperan" and "gagal move on" too much pride being a religious people but without compassion and forgiveness in practice, either for the sake of being a good person or for the better future... u hurt me i hurt u more kind of hate drive mentality But i feel at least in my communities we are so much much more better people than what i described above... those people like that makes our struggle for independence becomes nothing..

[@abcddef2112]

But the alternative is not dutch rethoric as this is. The truth is somewhat in the middle.

[@muhammaddaffanitisastra5648]

Well, there's no such thing as Bahasa Indonesia until Sumpah Pemuda in 1928 The term Bahasa Indonesia is coined to promote it as a uniting language between plethora of ethnicity in Indonesia, since most of Indonesian knew some Malay even though they were not ethnically Malay (Malay term in Indonesia is more specific though than in Malaysia) and Dutch is only used by few people in Indonesia and deemed as the "Colonizers' lingo" *CMIIW Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Melayu (Malay) do have some differences especially in terms of vocabulary, but grammar wise it's identical and mutual intelligibility is up to 95% in places like Sumatera and Kalimantan (Indonesia part of Borneo island) since these are predominantly Malay or Malay-influenced region. The good number is maybe between 65-85% in other regions

[@creativepop8196]

Yep you are right. Indonesian language is derived from Riau Malay. And the fact that some Indonesians got mad over the fact he said Malay instead of Indonesian is truly baffling to me

[@connorbrennan501]

love from Canada. You rock Hilbert. Chatted with you once before one of your streams a long time ago.

[@blokefrommalaya]

as malay is my native language. Regardless bahasa Indonesia, Malaysia or Melayu. it really saddens me that malaysia and indonesia or even singaporean malays have love hate relationships base on authenticity. This region is known as malay archipelago. How our language have evolve is base on colonial influence. simply like British and American English. Btw we are the people of Nusantara.. and my respect for hibert for the effort you been doing that has the heart of a historian .. :))

[@louvendran7273]

@BlokeFromMalaya So true as a South African kid. I found weird that some of my friends were called "Cape Malays" although they were decended from what is now Indonesia. This problem occurs the world over.

[@novalarifin9703]

Sukarno's propaganda about Malaysia being a puppet or tool for Great Britain to retain its colony is being one reason, and use it as a cassus belli to try to invade Malaysia (or so called Konfrontasi), which failed. the other reason being is just Malay vs Java thing, two brother separated at birth being take care by different parent all that stuff even tho historically Demak once (or maybe twice) helped Malacca fight against Portuguese, defending our common archipelago against western invaders. we have lots in common, we are brothers and sisters

[@eyour3life369]

@@novalarifin9703 britain : hold my scott-english Love hate

[@vanderpraast4938]

@@louvendran7273 yeah we know that south afrika and indonesia have conection from the dutch,, but why tf malaysia claim that malay in south afrika was from them?? We all know everythink about conection all of dutch colonies, just like how many javanese in suriname, Should malayngsial know that malay in s.afrika was from indonesia, Done claim malingsial

[@saintkun2708]

@@novalarifin9703 i don't think its about malay and javanese, cuz there's a lot of malay in Indonesia too at that time

[@ChristopherNFP]

Great that you reference Mark Felton. His channel is seriously under rated.

[@Reiwah]

@@AbdulRasyidPangrango-qr9dt still underrated af tho

[@mbathroom1]

Amazing video man. I always wanted to learn more about the Indonesian revolution

[@Zestyclose-Big3127]

Hey, I'm Indonesian and have watched a lot of your videos but somehow I didn't get any of your videos on Indonesia on my recommended until recently. Thanks for finally covering us! Without (I don't think) really at all wholeheartedly defending a lot of the people you mentioned though I'd like to say a few points: - As much as Sukarno/Hatta were collaborators with the Japanese I do see it often mentioned that they really to at least some extent tricked the Japanese into helping them achieve their goals, an big example being how they (are at the very least said to have) persuaded the Japanese into training the youngsters with a nationalist ideology instead of a pan-Asian one the Japanese would've perhaps preferred which probably helps explain why they were still pretty motivated after the Japanese lost even in looting Japanese armaments for their own use. It might also be worth mentioning that Supriyadi, notable only for rebelling _against the Japanese_ late in their occupation, was later appointed to be the first defence minister in the Republic's cabinet (he never showed up though, perhaps due to the Japanese having killed him). History class portrays the collaborationists as playing what I guess is nowadays called 4D Chess but then _of course_ history class would say that. In any case I don't think there was much cleavage centred specifically around who collaborated with the Japanese and who stayed underground so the idea of them playing pragmatic, widely-accepted 4D Chess with the Japanese probably does have at least some merit imho. - I do take exception to the idea of the independence movement being _so_ Javasentric as to be referred to as just a Javanese revolution. Hatta himself, for example wasn't himself Javanese at all, and neither was the guy that replaced Sudirman at the head of the Army. Much of Raymond Westerling's infamy, for example came from events in southern Celebes, not the island of Java (although that's where the APRA would later operate and where the traditional idea of a Ratu Adil came from). People like Alex Kawilarang were likewise a son of a Minahasan couple. - I'm also not inclined to agree that it's that fair to say or imply that the Dutch presence was really centred around the Mollucas, Papuans, etc especially since the Politionele Acties you mentioned actually (in Indonesian literature and according to a brief check in Wikipedia in the Dutch as well) each specifically refer to a massive military invasion of Java and another, later massive invasion of Java that this time basically pushed the republic's government out of all the cities there (which probably is why Indonesian history books are so reluctant to refer to them as politioneel at all except as a Dutch euphimism). It's probably worth noting here that the lack of resistance in a lot of the areas you mentioned towards the Dutch does imho point to them receiving the Dutch with rather open arms as you said though. - As Javacentric as the Indonesian government and economy can be seen as (especially under Suharto) I personally wouldn't imply the Dutch were any different in this respect. It was on the island of Java that the NL East Indies' economy post-Napoleon was centred (and the VOC had almost always had their HQ in the region there anyway during their heyday) and it was there that the biggest military operations occured (although that is where a lot of the resistance was along with Sumatra. Then again, Java was in any case the biggest prize for the Dutch afaik and when negotiating the Renville and Linggadjati agreements the Dutch still did try to have Javanese and Sumatran autonomy, with much the rest of Indonesia (plus some of Java and Sumatra themselves) substracted, exist under Dutch rule). I mean, Operatie Product was named after invading places rich with products (or at least means of their production)and that was largely to be gained by invading areas on Java (and Sumatra). - There's no good way to express the following, but I think Indonesians might find it rather tone deaf for a Dutch guy to focus quite a bit on a genocide of thousands of people when history class probably traught them that people like the aforementioned Westerling alone led troops to kill thenths of thousands (looking at Wikipedia I find a lot of doubt directed towards that figure but that's probably not something on most Indonesians' minds). It probably just looks to them like nothing more than the Dutch playing whatabout-ism. - I'll also take exception to the idea of Javanese imperialism, at least insofar as it existing beyond that of Holland/Extrafrisian imperialism or Parisian Imperialism. Correct me if I'm wrong but afaik under the Dutch the NL East Indies (as with many colonies in the world) had people who were not real citizens of the Netherlands but instead lived merely on land that belonged to the Netherlands proper, and certainly couldn't vote or have the same rights as a "normal" Dutch citizen, whereas the same can't be said nowadays of people from Brittany, Friesland, the formel NL Antilles, Ambon, Kupang, etc at least on paper. - While Indonesia did invade the _former Portuguese_ Timor conquest-style, the rest of the island was Dutch and would've been "handed over" the same way most of the country like Bali, North Sumatra, etc were at the turn of the '50s. The other big invasion you mentioned was that of dutch New Guinea but that was actually part of the Ambon(later Makassar)-centred Mollucas region NL East Indies, so I guess at least from the official government POV it was more similar the the USA invading the CSA except instead of the CSA seceding it's more like the CSA still being under the Brits despite the Brits promising to negotiate a handover of that area as well. Something a lot less like those and perhaps further still from justifiable OTOH would be the invasion of Malaysia (hey, as I've said I'm not here to wholeheartedly defend everyone involved). - I haven't watched the other video but I did kind of find it surprising that the communists were left unmentioned since I've for a long time thought that something else on the Dutch's mind was fighting against communism. i think I've seen a picture of a VVD campaign poster from the period protraying their being against Sukarno as being in-line with their being against communists and afaik the Indonesian government themselves massacring communists (again, not here to wholeheartedly defend everyone) was a big part of why the US eventually thought it was a good idea to leave the Dutch hung out to dry in the conflict. I think that's all I've got to say here (I swear I didin't go in planning to write so much), I hope I didn't come off as hateful or belligerent.

[@rizkyjovansjachputra2234]

I can help you making a video about a battle of Surabaya with some journal and newspaper during this war was happened... Nice video 👍

[@MrGiygas1]

Leuk filmpje als altijd :)

[@DutchLabrat]

Now there is no way to write about this as a Dutch person without running into all kinds of difficulties but.... The one thing that is often forgotten by other Dutch persons is that The Netherlands had no specific defendable rights to Indonesia. It is little thing that often is forgotten by former colonial powers when discussing former colonies: What where you doing there in the first place? What was it to us (Dutch) what the Indonesians did in their own country? And although you can certainly argue the Japanese where by certain measurements worse than the Dutch that is hardly an argument. The Dutch had abused and robbed Indonesia for centuries and were not really in the position to play arbiter on Japan. Pot, Kettle.... It is also blatantly not true that the call for Indonesian independence was caused by the Japanese occupation. Ever since the failings of the "Ethische Politiek" and the refusal to any kind of local rule or even discuss these matters with the Indonesians had made a war of independence unavoidable by the 1920's. And you can gush about your da defending all these Chinese but I bet those Chinese still remembered the pogrom of the Chinezen moord (1740.) Again, we were in no position to play arbiter. Truth is that in 1945 we send young, inexperienced, and badly trained soldiers often with the unresolved traumas of WWII still in their minds (see: PTSD) into a highly complicated political mess they new nothing about and were utterly unequipped to deal with. Remember they were brought up on the racist tropes of colonial apologetics and "white man's burden" tripe. Likewise the Indonesians after centuries of abuse by both the Dutch and Japanese were not in the state of mind to discuss the finer matters of policy and were certainly not inclined to take instructions on human rights from us. Of course you see the same in Korea, Vietnam, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Libya.....etc. This is al often reported without the obvious background that the locals there would just prefer the Western people to just ^^%@&^$ eff off. All the rest is just political shading.

[@saint4life09]

As pointed out in this video, Indonesia did not exist previously and even in the territory claimed whole areas were still loyal to the Dutch and were rightfully fearful of Javanese rule. This isn't even to mention the infrastructure built by the Dutch and the Europeans, mainly Dutch, that lived there along with those of mixed descent.

[@DutchLabrat]

Indeed, what @@AbdulRasyidPangrango-qr9dt says. What is more all that infra-structure, hospitals, schools etc.. that were built as part of the "Ethische Politiek" were put without any consideration of what the people there wanted or needed. It is the difference between somebody paint-brushing your car because you asked them or just because they thought you car was ugly.... What gave us the Dutch the right to do all that and then claim it as ours? Foremost, why not debate these things with local elected councils and work with them instead against them? That is what really caused the problems in the first place, that paternal overbearing attitude that treated colonials as children. Now there is something to say for the argument that Indonesia was falling into chaos after the Japanese surrender and could use some help. It is also absolutely true that certain minorities like the Chinese were in serious danger. But that was a complicated problem in a war-torn and destroyed country. That is not something you could solve with sending some barely trained soldiers that a large portion of the population were going to hate whatever they did. The harsh truth in many decolonization processes are always going to be violent because there are too many pent up emotions that are going to come out. Sending in more troops that are not trained for peace-keeping actions and had just grown up in a violent war.... Of course they didn't help. Just consider the violence in the Netherlands after the German occupation against (alleged) collaborators. And that was only after 5 years......

[@esmereldaweatherwax7230]

Thank you for this very interesting and informative video.

[@gre3nishsinx0Rgold4]

I always love educational videos about histories on another part of the world instead of just the main centric ones. I hope Hilbert does other countries too.

[@mooshft7523]

Great uncover on both video! , I'm glad can see from this perspective and hearing the truth !

[@PuNaWi]

I want to say thank you because your video let me know something that I didn't know before.

[@mrt743]

Quite the context you laid down there, well done “maat”😜

[@erithshutubessy3810]

for me as Indonesian.. i am very grateful for this video because basically majority of indonesian didn't see this as an act of brutality but struggle through indonesian independence.. a necessary act to achieve our absolute independence.. and my personal opinion, Indonesian have a habit to choose to forget the pain of the past and never talk about it.. so i understand if you little bit hard to grasp why Indonesian didn't see the Dutch and Indonesia share history as a whole because we, indonesian think we fight a necessary war with a little bit of vengeance towards European and nippon in that period of time.. this basically a heavy subject.. 😂 but good work and keep it coming! 👍

[@agus.w.kawidjaja]

Freedom of expression has always been an issue in Indonesia, especially during the Suharto regime, and we can still see the remnants of such repression today. Our history books tend to avoid discussion on atrocities committed by fellow Indonesians (like the above-mentioned Surabayan mass-amok or mass-rape on Chinese), and unfortunately, that is not the case when it comes to what Dutch troops did in Rawagede (the so-called "bloedbad"), Rengat, etc. Teachers simply choose the word "chaos" as a kind of safeword when asked about the looting by the Pemudas during the National Revolution, or later the events that took place during the Guided Democracy - New Order transition. It makes me believe that, in the case of the Indonesian War of Independence (or Dutch "Politionele Acties"), atrocities were committed by either the Dutch troops or the Republicans, because that was considered "normal" at that chaotic time, though the rules of war said otherwise. I am glad to find this video, that it helps me to learn from both sides of the war, that wars are never fair to anybody, and that I am grateful to live in this ... Age of KZbin. Salam,

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

I mean technically the Indonesian Language is a Malay language. It's like the distinction between the language of Austria and Germany. Nobody ever uses the term the Austrian language, everybody calls the language spoken by Austrians as German.

[@adityaanggaisback937]

Malay and Indonesian is kinda different. Is like saying netherland and german language are same

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

@@adityaanggaisback937 Is the netherland and german language mutually intelligible? If it is then I agree with you. Take for example a malay sentence and see if you can understand what it means. "Apa khabar Aditya, panggil saya Aiman. Saya berasal dari Malaysia dan saya hendak mengetahui sama ada anda boleh memahami atau tidak apa yang diperkatakan oleh saya sekarang ini". If you could understand that then that means both our languages is the same language just with different accents.

[@leakahoshi5049]

Indonesia language is like malay language mixed with european and some arabs words. For example, malay words for turn is same words as confusion (pusing). Where in Indonesia bahasa, it just turn (belok).

[@adityaanggaisback937]

@@aimanmarzuqi4804 in malay family language there are 3 language. Indonesia, Malaysia and Malay Indonesia. So saying Indonesia is Malay language is kinda right but more right to say Indonesia is in Malay family language. And Dutch and German language is under Germanic family language

[@mfaizsyahmi]

Except it's no longer the case. 2 centuries of colonial influence had steered the languages in markedly different directions. Malaysian Malay and Indonesian is more like Portuguese and Spanish, similar enough, but clearly different.

[@marcelinoluc1544]

Really interesting ! I’m half Vietnamese, half French myself. I have produced two graphic novels about Vietnam and its troubled struggle for independence: Such A Lovely Little War - Saigon, 1961-1963 and Saigon Calling- London, 1963-75. Both published by Arsenal Pulp Press, Vancouver. The original editions were in French. There are some similarities between Indonesian and Vietnamese history in the 1945-49 period. The role of the Japanese, for instance. And the danger for Eurasians too. Tks for your video.

[@darryl635]

Your video is more informative then my whole history subject in my indonesian school

[@stonefort5179]

to say that Indonesia was made by the japanese is wrong the term of Indonesia was created in 1850 and the concept of The Republic of Indonesia was created by Tan Malaka through his book Naar de Republiek Indonesia(1924)

[@theeasternemperor3410]

Can you do ones about colonization of Africa from the Berlin conference to decolonization and how it affects those african countries today. I'm a first generation african american my dad is from Malawi🇲🇼 and my mom from Uganda🇺🇬. Just a suggestion and as always love your videos 😁

[@theeasternemperor3410]

May you could do individual african countries 😁

[@Nabium]

@@theeasternemperor3410 Yeah, it's sad when Africa gets lumped into one, when it's such a diverse continent. Best do it with individual African countries.

[@jamesmmcgill]

Watch Africa Addio

[@LazarusWilhelm]

Indonesian friend told me that the Dutch language there only died quite recently. The British must have been much better rulers than the Dutch, as they have a much more positive cultural and linguistic impact over Malaysia, Brunei and Singapore, than the Dutch had over Indonesia. Indonesia even went to war with Malaysia and the Commonwealth in the 1960s, its called the "Konfrontasi" which is Malay for confrontation ,Can you please please do a video on that Hilbert?

[@daddyleon]

Doesn't mean they were better rulers, maybe the Dutch were just a bit less interested in everyone speaking Dutch. I read an account a while ago where the 'serfs' were told to speak low-Javanese to the Dutch rulers (where endemic (is that the right word?) clothes, as well as bow humiliatingly deep and never turn their backs), who replied back in high-Javanese, while both of them understood Dutch. This occurred even when it was officially forbidden by the higher-up Dutch rulers, but still continued by some of the ower-down Dutch rulers.

[@kykale]

My Indonesian grandparents spoke Dutch, through either Dutch education or their Indo-Dutch parents, but they didn't speak the language with my parents. In the years after the Dutch left there was a strong desire to remove elements from Dutch colonialism in Indonesia, under president Sukarno. But even during colonization Dutch wasn't widespread among native Indonesian because 1) Malay was already a lingua franca among the different ethnic groups, so the colonial government didn't bother educating Dutch and 2) there wasn't access to education for the majority of Indonesians.

[@kykale]

Yesterday I uploaded I video about the Dutch words still left in Indonesia: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6nTlKtjp6qfZpI I explain that after independence suffix with -teit, like universiteit and kwaliteit, were replaced with -tas such as universitas and kualitas.

[@r-i-n-n-e-r]

The british left better infrastructure in the islands while the dutch kinda neglected indonesia.

[@kitnascimento0]

That´s probably because malaysia is a bit of a creation since it was part of what today is indonesia, most of malaysia was conquered territory of Siam and then england took over the penisula and created malaysia. One reson the rebelion on malaysia in the 50´s didn´t succeed was that it was montly chinese revolting not so much malays. Look at the diference with Burma that never accepted england as a ruler and never tried to emulate england unlike malaysia that borrowed a lot from england or even more india.

[@kemasrafi2865]

Hey man, i just want to point out that saying this Indonesian Revolution as purely ethnical revolution of javanese is extremely wrong. The other ethnics are supporting the idea of Indonesian Nation during the sumpah pemuda held years before the revolution took place.

[@palmer8278]

But did they support whaling?

[@stijn299]

Hi Hilbert, my great grand-parents where both dutch who 'emigrated ' to the dtuch east indies. My great-grand father was in the KNIL and married my great-grand mother in Indonesia. There is a really nice book written about them by a dutch writer: Gordel van geweld by Art De Vos. I don't have any family stories because just like with all dutch people returning from east-indies didn't talk about what really happened. From the book it just looks like a army fighting rebels but also with the violation of peoples basic rights. However the feeling what I get from the book is that my great grandfather was really fond of the indonesian population but that it really went south when they had to fight the guerilla warfare from the TNI. The book shows a first person view of how the family life goes pre-ww2, during WW2 in a japanese detention camp and after ww2 with the politionele acties.

[@thepuffin4050]

Let me guess, Dutch roll?

[@dambrooks7578]

That was wonderfully informative, I concur that imperialism seldom produces positive positions for the natural and native population, as this occurred during at an overlapping period in the last war it was sadly a time when there were literally so many horrific atrocities occurring it truly is incredible how many have seemingly slipped through the cracks of history and become unacknowledged or misrepresented in the history books. Great job, and just over thirty-nine minutes is still less than a physical classroom lesson.

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

History memes are always accepted

[@mbathroom1]

Bruh you're everywhere

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

@@mbathroom1 What do you mean?

[@mbathroom1]

@@CivilWarWeekByWeek you're on every history channel. I'm also watching all your videos so expect a new sub soon

[@CivilWarWeekByWeek]

@@mbathroom1 well I just love history and people like Hillbert, Indy and Brandon are my influences.

[@mbathroom1]

@@CivilWarWeekByWeek Same man. Look up Micahistory 2, that's my channel. We almost have the same amount of subs

[@historysquad]

We sing Bandung Lautan Api in kindergarten (in Bandung ofc) as a reference to the scorched earth policy 😊

[@Seroriannedreno4766]

Quite fucked up isn't

[@ghafarelfr8605]

@@Seroriannedreno4766 well.....it is tbh

[@siswokusumo4263]

Russian tactis

[@ceoofcomedy3569]

Are there any good books about the indonesian war that has first hand accounts from veterans who fought in the conflict? Anything will help.

[@dakotaflowers0]

I'll say personally, I thoroughly enjoyed the detail in this video. Length of content doesn't concern me as long as it maintains my interest. The complexity of the subject matter I felt was handled excellently. Content like this truly is a treasure.

[@sander7165]

The Dutch troops did not enter Indonesia until March 1946

[@Joe_Mama661]

@@AbdulRasyidPangrango-qr9dt bri'ish*

[@FOLIPE]

The second half of this video is rather biased. As the video sometimes acknowledges, Indonesia didn't start with the Japanese invasion, but with the Dutch colonial occupation. That is also the root of many of the ethnic tensions that exploded during and after the Japanese occupation: particularly, how different ethnicities had been treated by the Dutch vis à vis one another. As for why Indonesia had to be one single unity rather than a bunch of ethno-states, I think European history is the best example of what happens when you try to fix borders to match ethnic demographics or, more likely, the other way around. Besides that, the rule overall during the processes of decolonization was to keep the colonies intact (even now people complain about how France didn't do it with Mayotte, which was illegal) as to prevent de-stabilization and manipulation of borders for political ends. As for why the collaborationist leaders should remain in power, that's a great question one can also ask about Japan. I think at the end of the day it was pragmatic thinking that led to that both cases, allied with a, fear of communism and an understanding that colonialism did not really have a future. The Dutch had 200 years to decolobize Indonesia slowly and in a controlled fashion, but that isn't something they wanted to do before, and by the time they had been forced to, obviously they didn't have the might to control the process any longer or the trust of the local elite.

[@draphotube4315]

🙏 Dankjewel voor deze mooie video

[@rever-mi6qz]

Hilbert heb je de docu 'Onze Jongens Op Java' gezien? is een prachtige docu over de veteranen en wat ze mee gemaakt hebben!

[@salamanderguy3270]

as a German i understand this, even though your language physically hurts me when i read it

[@arbiteroffate3601]

I mean Indonesia doesn't really have a side in the ideological battle of the 60s and onward so why should we have during the 45th? Like, we are desperate to survive and we switching sides so many times during the cold war era especially during Sukarno era since he was recorded visiting both the Washington DC and Moscow almost at the same time. Indonesia didn't go full fascist but we utilized the spirit that was shown in by the Japanese and the modern standard war tactics used by the Dutch and now we finish number 16 in the world military ranking! We would use the best aspect of any ideology to create the most stable country in Southeast Asia and that was what every Indonesian would love to see.

[@brianmaphar9685]

Oh, and in regards to you saying Malayan as language and not bahasah, you were correct. The dutch spoke a combination of dutch and maleis/malay. It was 1 of the official languages in dutch east indies, as were javaans and chinese. I m not sure, but think that the javaans language became bahasah after the revolution.

[@harryblack7323]

After independence the Indonesian language, which is a further development of the Malay language, has become the national language (Bahasa Indonesia).

[@brianmaphar9685]

@@harryblack7323 its a combination of malay and javaans. So yes, that combo became bahasah

[@markshepherd3632]

Great programme @Hilbert

[@Osvster]

I'm not historian but have some addition and opinion tho on your conclusion, feel free to comment if I'm wrong 1. Independence isn't just a product of Japanese occupation but also Pemuda. There's growing discontent within Japan and Indonesia because Indonesia used Japan before BPUPKI to arrange Independence. For example, under japanese rule, the independence movement come from MIAI, and Gerakan Bawah Tanah (Underground movement group) who is secretly been planning for the Independence. Other thing is, while Japanese helped Indonesia to prepare for independent (like BPUPKI, PPKI). But once Japanese surrendered to the US, there's a vacuum of power. Pemuda wanted to use the opportunity to declare independence quickly while Soekarno actually wanted to hold off until the allies arrived. This results in Soekarno being kidnapped by Pemuda which is called as Rengasdenglok Incident. Based on Kompas, this incident is to keeping Soekarno from Japanese influence, immediate proclamation and not to fall under allies occupation. 2. Opinion: Indonesia can be justified at that time due to the anger surrounding the dutch (or europe). Indonesia is on the roots of hate towards the dutch due to genocide from culturstelsell and rodi and the racial discrimination. Even half dutch are trated better than the Indonesian counterpart. In the end, it shaped what Indonesia is now to be. 4. I don't think this is more of "Javanese revolution" than Indonesia Because Kalimantan, Sumatera, Celebes, Maluku are also taking part in Revolution (I do more agree that Java is a bigger reason for the revolution). For example the subjugation by Raymond Pierre Paul Westerling in Celebes island which killed 15.000 people due to independence movement which is literal warcrime that the dutch regarded as heroism. Most of sultanates from kalimantan, java, sumatera are recognizing Indonesia. The Maluku when independence is being held in Jakarta due to Dutch already arriving to restore the colonialism. But the "Deklarasi 6 September 1945" by Mollucans made some KNIL defected to Indonesia. Don't forget that revolution in Maluku came before the Revolution itself. The maluku Christelijk Ambnsch volksbond, Sou Moloekoe, Inlandsch Learaarsbond, Nusa Ina, Panji Naderland, Ambonsch Studiefonnd, Christen Studenten Verningging and Ambon Raad are already sided with independence. Also you mentioned about Dutch wanted to bargain with Linggajati and Renville. Try to see Indonesia's side of this agreement. I am also super dissapointed, angry, mad, opposed for the unnacceptable, BIASED, untruth, unlawfull fact that Bali is a big island :) (Btw bali is roughly the same size as Singapore)

[@budicaesar1213]

I think the title "The indonesian war of independence from the Dutch perspective" would be more fitting But thats just my opinion

[@mochipii]

I like your video. It's interesting to hear about the history of my country from the other side's perspective. Yeah, about the European/ Eurasian killings, this is the first time i ever heard of it. Because the history we know is the history written by the government and we all know that history is written by the victor. Human nature? War nature? Who knows?

[@saintkun2708]

"Javanese revolution" My minang and malay ancestors be like : HA?

[@comradekenobi6908]

This is the first time I've heard someone called it that

[@bebekdragon7604]

Yeah, he skipped all the "Sumpah Pemuda" parts

[@comradekenobi6908]

@@bebekdragon7604 wonder why?

[@caezero2072]

@@comradekenobi6908 just random white dude trying to cancel our history, put it in bad light.. damn those cancel culture.

[@zeroyuki92]

While I do agree on most of your points (including Indonesia really need to be much more honest with their history -- not only about this bersiap period but also about other massacres like communist massacre etc), I think you oversimplify some major points here: 1. While it's true that Soekarno and Hatta were collaborating with Japan during JP occupation, you forgot to mention that the independence movement have been started way before JP occupation (in fact Soekarno and several other pro-independence actors has been exiled by Dutch because of this). Your wordings kind of implied that they (the actors behind the independence movement) are the product of Japanese occupation, while I think the logic should be contrary: They were approached by Japanese because they WERE the figure of independence movement. Thus the logic/justification of their cooperation could be simplified: Japanese approached them, promised the eventual independence for the price of easier control of the colony, so they collaborated. Even with a skeptical point of view I don't think they collaborated with Japanese because they are especially fond of Japanese or their imperialist ambition, I think the biggest reason is simply that they think it was the best option that they HAVE at that time to help their movement. 2. You kind of framed bersiap period as a nationwide movement of violence towards dutch/allies/japanese, while on the other hand I still think that each regions has its own regional movement leaders who aren't even completely capable to control the local movement. Let alone the national leaders. Thus while for example Soekarno for example might know about some brutality that were happening towards non-combatans, I don't think they have the capability to have information and control about things that were happening in the vast territory of Indonesia at that point. Many of the local massacres even seemingly hapenned spontanously (e.g local mobs met captured soldiers on transport, they killed the soldiers due to uncontrolled anger), and while some local leaders like Bung Tomo might have allowed such tragedies to happen in his watch I don't think it's safe to generalize the entire nationalist movement with just this alone. After all, this is still in the very early time of independence for Indonesia and they definitely don't have enough time to build a proper government and control mechanism (they don't even have proper army right now). 3. Dutch has a big influence on why Indonesian are so violent (especially to Dutch and Chinese) at this time. First, education for locals was mostly only given to administrators, royalties, and the very wealthy of local population. Thus many locals are uneducated citizen who are very prone to violence and incitements. Secondly, Dutch successfully implemented a devide at impera policy to sow discords between different level of caste and races. Chinese and Indonesian has been carefully orchestrated to hate each other to prevent both of them from gaining too much power (or even worse, allying with each other to rebel). Java War (1741-1743) was an armed struggle where ethnic chinese allied with anti-colonial locals against Dutch and pro-dutch locals, resulting in several chinese population massacre. Various policies were implemented by dutch to prevent this alliance to ever happen again, such as preventing them to live in the same neighborhood and casted Chinese as the enemy of the natives with "Ethcial Policy" after 1900. Not mentioning any of this made the mention of the tensions seems contextless and remove any blame that should be shared by Dutch colonial goverment caused by policies that has been implemented up to hundreds of years. So yeah, I agree that the justification that was made by Dutch Government to send troops (that was presented by you) was logical from their PoV, and Indonesia need to learn a much broader facets of facts that hapenned during this period of their turbulant history. However, to understand the deeper subtext of this conflict, I think you need to go further back from Japanese occupation to understand how Indonesian pro-independence movement, dynamics between races in local society, and how situation in different places evolves over time. Ignoring all of them kind of making the video too dutch-government-pov-centric while also ignoring the bad effects of the policy that they themselves implemented during their own occupation.

[@barraman.]

Now that i have actually finished the video. May I say that I find Indonesia's history quite interesting.

[@Raic-]

20:31 When is this? I'm sure its not from the battle of surabaya speech

[@herrofrwiends8475]

Before you comment something watch the video even if U THINK u know what you are talking about

[@nikok.6479]

i play these videos as i go to sleep so that all the glorious information osmoses subconsciously. However they are much too interesting and keep me awake. Disliked + unsubscribed

[@MoschusMoschiferus]

Hah

[@bucek2247]

dari judul langsung dijawab diawal pembukaan video. setelah itu diajak menelusuri jejak sejarah untuk paham alasan jawaban itu. mantap 👍

[@purnomor]

Plenty of fallacies in this video, Sukarno and the nationalist movement in general were far from hostile to minorities because they knew how diverse Indonesia is. Among important nationalist leaders were Johannes Leimena (Christian Mollucan), Ratulangi (Christian Minahasa), Douwes Dekker or Setiabudi (a Eurasian Indo). More than half the nationalist leadership were from Sumatera, especially West Sumatra. There were incidents of violence because after independence were proclaimed in 1945, countless numbers of armed groups sprung up outside the control of embryonic Indonesian govt. Some of these groups with myriad of mostly localised reasons attacked not only Dutch, Eurasians, or Chinese but also native aristocrats or anyone who is perceived to benefit from previous colonial era. It took until 1946 before the Indonesian govt apparatus to sufficiently established to stop the worst of these violence. In short, it was just total anarchy that tends to happen anywhere when there was a vacuum of power.

[@bapo224]

The Dutch soldiers who went to Indonesia were led to believe that they would be liberators, that they would be loved and celebrated in the same way that the Canadian/allied liberators were in the Netherlands. They believed they were *helping* not only the Dutch living in Indonesia but also the native Indonesian peoples, not oppressing them.

[@MeragRealm]

The German soldiers who went to Netherlands were led to believe that they would be liberators, that they would be loved and celebrated in the same way they were celebrated were in the Sudetenland. They believed they were helping not only the Germans living in Indonesia but also the native Dutch peoples, not oppressing them.

[@bapo224]

@@MeragRealm No, not a single German soldier thought they were liberators since there's no Germans living here nor were we occupied by another nation. Their annexation of Sudetenland was also not celebrated. That being said, I actually don't blame the footsoldiers of WW2 Germany. Unlike the Japanese and Indonesians they did not commit (many) warcrimes and were simply fighting for their country. It's the high ranking officers and of course Hitler himself who are to be blamed for the terrible things that happened, not the foot soldiers. So in summary, your comment is objectively incorrect, but even if it was correct it would not change my original point for even in that scenario it was not the soldiers who you should hate.

[@MeragRealm]

@@bapo224 lol

[@wonkagaming8750]

@@MeragRealm wow, that was shit

[@veel60]

@@bapo224 Why are you propagating the clean wehrmacht myth? Sure there's nuances of course, but please avoid spreading misinformation like that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_clean_Wehrmacht

[@TimDutch]

Interesting

[@hakimimastor6777]

Well actually Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Singapore and some States in southern Thailand are part of malay archipelago, and the language used in this area are considered part of malay languange and Malaysian, Indonesian, Singaporean and Brunei are all brothers, we were deeply separated only because of British and Dutch colonisers make us further apart because of their influence

[@johoreanperson8396]

I mean yeah but Im kinda fine on how it happened now.

[@ComedyJakob]

I think there is a difference between an opportunistic attempt at gaining independence against a colonial regime and collaborating to overthrow your own country's liberal democratic government. Does anyone think that the Indonesian nationalists sided with Japan because they were big Japan fans? I think it is clear to see that it was an opportunistic move. Judge their actions on their own but let's not pretend that they were enthusiastic Japan's fans. It is a little silly to believe that a nation state will greatly strain itself to do something purely altruistic like protect Indonesia from itself.

[@tomzhong7774]

Hey Hilbert. I love your videos and I believe that you are a honest historian, but I believe your grandfather's experience in Indonesia may have clouded your judgement towards some of the realities of Dutch Colonialism. Beyond the nuances involving the various independence and resistance movements during the Colonial period and Japanese occupation, I just want to argue that the Dutch Government has no intention of liberating Indonesian as you claim. Case and point they have already set up the Netherlands Indies Civil Administration (NCIA) in April 1944 with the sole intention of restoring Dutch Colonial Rule in Indonesia. This was before D-Day and definitely before the Netherlands was liberated. And if it isnt even more obvious, right after the capitulation of the KNIL, American General Douglas MacArthur had promised Dutch Lieutenant Governor Huib van Mook that "We have let you down after you went to war for us. It is my duty to restore you to Indonesia." This was to form the basis of the Van Mook-MacArthur Civil Affairs Agreement. And it would had been rectified in 1942 had the US State Department not intervene and demanded that the Netherlands commit to a date for Indonesia's full autonomy. So, to claim that the Dutch Government was there to liberate the Indonesians is simply wishful thinking. Yes, they were there to keep the peace, but it was definitely not out of they altruism as a benevolent colonial power.

[@apalahartisebuahnama7684]

As founding father himself said: "it's a revolution, that's gonna be bloody anyway". There were multiple ways of Indonesia to gain independence but if they choose the gruesome way then that's how they gonna fight it.

[@seniorscouse3346]

Hilbert are you british or dutch or do you have dutch heritage but are british like me

[@adnanhakim9963]

Actually, my grandfather is one of this pemuda on the bersiap period. He passed the story to me in detalis on his point of view. It was utterly gruesome.

[@esd251]

I’m dutch Indonesian and let me tell you this…Bersiap was a brutal, violent period, they didn’t just slaughter the Europeans and Chineses, but also the indos! I wouldn’t be here typing my comments if the Netherlands didn’t send the troops to stabilise the region. Also, Sulawesi is one of the islands who actually had zero interest to join the Republic, they only sent troops to Java and Sumatera only later to Makassar, they sent a small unit to stabilise the city it was Westerling’s DST unit. Sulawesi later forced to join the Republic after it was threatened with invasion.

[@ekosusetyo217]

This tragedic war will never happen if the netherland never came after the indonesia declare of its independence and that was the most truly fact.

[@j3bryan100]

An informative video, history is never simple and most of us are given a very superficial description of most historical events. I think you have done an excellent job of telling the story of Indonesian independence.

[@anin871]

not gonna hate you but, can you mention sumpah pemuda 27-28 Oktober 1928 di Batavia

[@putrakimicev]

I just want to confirm about the youth kills Japanese prisoner its true, it happened here in my city Bekasi. people here know the story as "massacred in Bekasi River" where surrendered Japanese soldier who being transported from other province to Jakarta by train has been stopped by mobs (youth) then they cut their head off and threw their bodies to Bekasi River (Kali Bekasi).

[@worlds3061]

Oh nice a guy from Bekasi, greetings from Perumnas 3.

[@141Travish]

No way.... The youth just give them honor, it's called harakiri 🤭