Why didn't Christopher Tolkien like the Lord of the Rings Films?

[@shamrockdragon7634]

Good video, but I disagree with Christopher Tolkien on Peter Jackson adaptations. While they were probably nothing like he imagined when his dad was telling him the story, they are not action films. and I believe they are the best adaptations we will ever see for a good, long while.

[@ElffriendYT]

Yes I agree they were wonderful adaptations, so It might’ve been a grudge based on it not being exactly like his dad was telling him the story. Or maybe the changes that he didn’t see in the book but at the same time any movie has to have at least some changes. Though another question might be whether Tolkien himself would have enjoyed them or not? That’ll be interesting to know.

[@rbo3193]

Have you read all the books outside the Lord of the rings and silmarillion?? Christopher has input major work in publishing his dad's mind with a lot of book volumes, references, manuscripts etc... not for some goon to just suggest he's wrong 😂 Leg it clown

[@ElffriendYT]

He’s not wrong; that’s his opinion. I think people are entitled to their opinions whether we agree with him or not. I not only read all of them…they’re like songs stuck in my head! 😆

[@Ales_Dei_Nuntius]

Christopher knew best how his father imagined the world, and he was also involved in the work of the Lord of the Rings and helped his father. He probably knew him best.

[@dante6985]

Hard agree. As a LOTR fan, I get Christopher Tolkien though. As a Dune cultist, I feel for him. You want to see the story you know and love on screen. The LOTR were excellent, master-class fantasy filmmaking that probably won't be rivaled in our lifetimes (at least live-action wise). As you said. The LOTR movies are also (slightly) watered-down and Hollywood-ified versions of the books because of the nature of showbusiness: you want to appeal to a broad audience, not just diehard fans of the books. You want fantasy and non-fantasy film goers alike to enjoy these ambitious projects. Producers are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this trilogy. A very faithful adaptation (really the only thing that would appease Christopher Tolkien who devoted his life to his father's work) would *never* be authorized as a movie trilogy because it would be 16 hours long. A project like that is reserved for BBC productions (80's Narnia series) or HBO shows (first 4 seasons of GOT) and whatnot. An example of an adaptation that was too faithful (IMHO) was Watchmen, a 2 hour story that was bloated into near three. It hit every plot beat (except the ending, infamously) and suffered because of it. Its critical reception was mid, but, perhaps more importantly, it likely *lost* lots of money at the box office, following the "double your budget" rule. And we almost don't need it as its own artifact because it is so similar to the existing graphic novel. To use an example, of where LOTR films soar: I*love* the Scouring of the Shire in the books. Thematically it's *chef's kiss*. But in a movie, where you've just been to the peak of the action with the destruction of the ring and Sauron... to introduce a subplot about the B- and C- villain (Saruman and Wormtongue) would totally destroy the pace of the film on what many think is already an overly long ending. To use Dune (2021, 2024) as another example, the Baron Harkonnen (an articulate, eloquent villain), is reduced to saying short sentences like "squeeze them hard" or "My Dune. My Arrakis" in the film versions. Alia, a baby with the mind of an adult, is left unborn to deal with her weirdness. The ending is completely changed leaving huge plots in future books very difficult to tread (look up spoilers for Alia if you want to know). TL;DR: It's a completely different story in both cases. And that's not only okay, that's a good thing. We don't need a carbon copy of media onto other media. These changes don't make these films 'bad' movies or 'bad' adaptations. Just... not super faithful. So you have to think of things as they are: there is the book LOTR universe, and the film LOTR universe, and the book Dune universe, and the film Dune universe. And evaluate them on their own merits. I wrote an essay. whoops.

[@guntcheck]

Background music level is WAY too loud

[@johanabigasova6770]

I agree

[@ElffriendYT]

Thanks for the feedback

[@mariusfelixlange6709]

Bach double concerto without orchestra played by amateurs…charming somehow…

[@MartinBarlow-n2p]

The movie treatment of Gandalf the White in Return of the King was clearly out of step with the books. The idea a human undead wraith could break his staff is ridiculous. The only entity in ME that could rival him is Sauron, and he was specifically charged not to directly confront Sauron. He easily drove off 5 Nazgûl when rescuing Faramir.

[@ElffriendYT]

👀

[@akanji8285]

I think something Christopher severely underestimated is how much the movies would introduce and bring people into the world his father created. Without seeing the movies I probably never would have been interested in reading the books. Also the trilogy is probably the last time Hollywood will ever adapt a material without inserting politics

[@ElffriendYT]

Good to hear!

[@67nairb]

1:05 the Royal Airforce not the U.S. Airforce.

[@samhavoc1066]

Every movie is never as good as the books, but Peter Jackson did one of the best adaptions I've ever seen. Most of the changes make sense, like removing Bombadil, as he didn't contribute to the overall storyline. Removing the fight for Hobbiton from the end and killing Saruman at the tower instead of Hobbiton was the same reason, keeping with the main storyline, but I do miss that part of the hobbit character arcs. I don't agree with changing Arwen and removing Elrond's sons to give her a larger part, nor to I like the fact that they made Elrond out to be bitter and having given up on humans, which was not the case. Otherwise I like the movies.

[@ElffriendYT]

I agree

[@sashathegreatwandererofvalinor]

Christopher Tolkien (may he R.I.P.) was a human being with strengths and flaws like everybody else. Without his efforts, many of his father's unpublished works would not have seen the light of day. We wouldn't have gotten "The Silmarillion", "Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth" or even the "The History of Middle-earth" (this series is particularly interesting for the original drafts of "TLotR"; it's interesting to see how the work evolved and became what we all have read/watched today). But as others pointed out: I disagree with Christopher Tolkien's take on Peter Jackson's "TLotR" motion picture trilogy. *Most importantly, he failed to see that they will help introduce his father's works to the world. Up until Jackson's adaptations, Tolkien's works weren't that popular in Eastern Europe for example. But, because I grew up with these films, I eventually picked up the books for myself. And I have reading & re-reading the stories in Tolkien's legendarium ever since. Without Jackson, I don't think I would have ever learned of Tolkien. *And another thing: they were more than "action films", they still retain messages from Tolkien's works: fellowship, trust, love. Sure, there are changes (some better than others, some worse), but Peter Jackson's films are the best adaptation of Tolkien's Middle-earth mythology that we will ever get. The crew used linguists to ensure the actors knew how to speak the Elvish tongues and pronounce the names of the characters per the author's rules (pronunciations that even many KZbinrs who claim to be "Tolkien experts" get wrong - for example Morgoth is pronounced "Morgoth" - as in the r is heard - not "Mogoth" as some content creators use it... feel free to check Tolkien's pronunciation in an interview). The casting of the character fits the descriptions even better than some fan art out there (I've seen plenty of Saruman fan art with him wearing a white beard, but Tolkien mentions "strands of black still showed about his lips and ears" which Christopher Lee sported in his portrayal of Saruman). "TLotR" motion picture trilogy was made with love and particularly love for the source material. Those are the best movies I have ever watched and it's a pleasure to re-watch them during my Tolkien-reading marathons! A pity that Christopher Tolkien could not see all this. I understand that he was sensitive on the subject and that he came to see himself as a protector of his father's legacy, but at the same time, he could have offered to be a consultant at least and try help with the project, rather than sit down and criticize others' attempts.

[@Чарло]

I love the "Bach Double", but it was recorded too loud for your video.

[@ElffriendYT]

Thanks for the feedback

[@Rizla2956]

Imagine how he would have felt seeing the Ring of power

[@ElffriendYT]

👀

[@67nairb]

1:07 He trained to be an RAF pilot in South Africa, huh? By coincidence his father was born in South Africa-Blomfentine, January 3, 1892 to be precise.

[@ElffriendYT]

Indeed

[@67nairb]

@@ElffriendYT yes. Did you know that J.R.R. Tolkien's grandson Peter or is it Simon is an author in his own right? He writes mostly crime novels and lives in New Zealand where LOTR movie trilogy was shot.

[@ElffriendYT]

Simon Tolkien kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZfXmJqwntF7fJYsi=qJXNrAze_aLR_31Z

[@IMHAVINHOOPS]

Happy to take the money though eh Chris? He is a tribute act. And before anyone says I don’t know what I’m talking about, trust me,I do. The company I worked for, we worked for over 3yrs to get a license from Tolkien and honestly, it was always the bottom line that mattered ££££. The freedom we had to change things, and take things in our own direction was astounding. Disney on the other hand? YOU DO NOT FUCK WITH DISNEY. They have ultimate control over EVERYTHING. If Christopher genuinely wanted/cared enough to see something closer to his vision on the screen, he could’ve had tighter control over the licensing rights. The Tolkien estate has only ever been about the money, they aren’t interested in ‘guarding’ the legacy of middle earth. I would argue that the films have actually benefited Christopher immensely. Due to their success, they have brought a whole new audience to the wonder of middle earth. It’s like Stars wars fans bitching about Disney expanding the Star Wars universe. Oh, George wouldn’t have done this, this isn’t true Star Wars blah blah blah. My friend, who do you think sold it to Disney in the first place?

[@ElffriendYT]

George Lucas indeed 😁

[@NukeEm-w2x]

George Lucas has stated his distaste many times for what Disney did to star wars. They literally spat in the faces of all there fans, mark hamill has been very vocal about this. The lotr trilogy is the best book to film adaptation ever made, genuinely my favourite films and I love the changes Peter Jackson made, it works well and totally does justice to the books. Disney star wars however is a whole different thing.

[@BeenasBookshelf]

another great video!

[@ElffriendYT]

Thanks!

[@Rosedach]

Authors Tom Clancy & Stephen King, both asked their names be remove from movies.

[@ElffriendYT]

Interesting

[@ReinoldFZ]

My favorite writers ever are Borges and Dante. Borges commented he read, or listened as he got blind, to the Lord of the Rings, and couldn't avoid to laugh, maybe because he had a deep knowledge of sagas, kenningar et. al. so he felt it ridiculous or childish. Personally I loved a lot the Silmarillion, which wasn't published in the time of Borges, and I have grown to love the Peter Jackson movies of Lord of the Rings. In the end we like what we like, even if better readers than us can feel otherwise. I imagine Christopher Tolkien got the story in a way that nobody else could experiment, dedicated to him by his father.

[@ElffriendYT]

Of course! Everyone has their own opinion ✨ and I imagine if someone knew the author of the books to that extent, it’ll make him more discerning of other adaptations of such works.

[@Cody-5501]

To be fair there was a lot wrong they did with the story. I will use one example in the crack of doom in the book gollum was jumping for joy when he got the ring back but then slipped which was canonically guided by Eru that is God. In the movies Frodo wrestles with gollum and they both go over and Frodo catches himself. I think we can all agree there is a difference between divine intervention and the works of man.

[@ElffriendYT]

Ofc

[@scottnolan2833]

WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE MUSIC! ARE YOU SAYING SOMETHING?

[@ElffriendYT]

😁

[@ElffriendYT]

That was from a few thousand years ago. The music is quieter now. 😁

[@joshuanowlin443]

I mean i found the first 2 to be cringy, super cheesy. I onoy really like the 3rd one which is legitimately great.

[@ElffriendYT]

thanks for sharing 😊

[@UlricGrim]

He’s salty because it was an “action” movie? The books were literally centered around war between Sauron and Middle Earth. I think the movies were more or less faithful to the books. Do they include everything? No. But movie adaptations are not going to be exactly like the books, that’s why they are “adaptations”. If they were so worried about the movies torturing the books, then they never should have sold or gave rights to the studios.

[@Griffinwing420]

If Christopher Tolkien didn't like the sheer brilliance that is the PJ films I shudder to think what he'd think of the utter travesty Amazon concocted. I think Tolkien would at least appreciate that PJ and everyone involved did their best to faithfully adapt Tolkien's masterpiece into film. Certain minor changes were made and more noticeable changes were required due to the limitations of book to film yet PJ brought to life the essence of The Lord of the Rings for a new generation and its monumental impact cannot be denied.

[@dekuuchiha9990]

They should have made these rated-R

[@fangorn9826]

Why?

[@dekuuchiha9990]

@@fangorn9826 more realism

[@ElffriendYT]

Maybe it would, maybe not 👀😆

[@StuartThompson-oc2in]

i like this movie cause it was release 8th 7th year deep in the Mentally Holy War never got watch this movie till 2009 10 Twin Towers then it all started make sense yea

[@tomt139]

Christopher didn’t like the movies because the movies suck if you evaluate them as adaptions of the books. Just compare the chapter “the council of Elrond”…. 🙄 but as movies (and not adaptions) they’re a mixed bag… 👀

[@ElffriendYT]

👀

[@gandalf4751]

The lord of the rings 😍😍😍😍😍😍

[@ElffriendYT]

🗡️ ⚔️ 🪓 😅

[@salmanmosharraf5847]

100 year old

[@ElffriendYT]

Indeed 🥰

[@danielhurlston7384]

Christopher Tolkien was right. The Peter Jackson LOTR movies(& his Hobbit films) stripped away the soul and poetry from Tolkien's written word. The Peter Jackson LOTR movies were, in my observation and opinion, nothing more than a vehicle for Jackson's FX Company, Weta. I find Sir John Boorman's Excalibur to be far more Tolkienesque than anything in Jackson's films.

[@ElffriendYT]

Cool, I haven’t seen the Boorman yet. Or come to think of it, the Hobbit films.

[@thatonewhitewizard3748]

The Hobbit movies were a whole other level of disaster