Why Do Airlines LIE About Things Like This??

[@avonedwins]

Airline pilot here… so we don’t get our final weight and balance information until every bag and piece of cargo is scanned on. At 9:21 you can see the guy at the bottom of the screen with the scanner in his hand. Once they send the baggage and cargo details we can then get our weight and balance and takeoff data so we can depart. Often times we have no clue if the ramp folks are having difficulties unless they come up and tell us. So likely the captain only knew that they were waiting on the final load paperwork and didn’t know why. Hope this helps.

[@OlaMagnusLie]

Train engineer/driver here. I guess you guys also try to "dumb" things down a bit to reach a broader audience. I always try to stay out of the Railwaynese lingo so that people get the jist of the situation rather than the actual detailed version.

[@bmxerkrantz]

I came to say similar and I'm not a pilot. Plus I don't think the cabin can see the ground as good as the passengers. At least not in any flight Sim plane I've flown.

[@jonc4403]

The lie was saying everything is loaded. Now whether the pilot was told the load was complete and was lied to himself, we don't know. We do know that either he knows there's a cargo door not closed or there's a burned-out cargo door warning light and a burned out "warning light burned out" warning light.

[@AnthonyFrancisJones]

Respect to you sir as a commercial pilot - I only have a private licence, but surely the pilot in command would have had an indication of non-closure of the hold door so would know that something was amiss there and that would certainly hold them up. So a quick mention of, " We are just waiting for the final bags to be loaded and then we will be off," might have done the trick. "Sorry the loading belt has broken down. We have tried pouring fuel into it from an open can but spilt most of it on the apron with the ensuing risk..." would probably not have been the best thing to announce!

[@Beef4Dinner22]

@@jonc4403 ah but what about the "wanting light burned out, warning light burned out, warning light burned out" warning light?

[@konradw360]

That fuel transfer literally included everything that could be done wrong. Apart from igniting the fuel.

[@CreativityNull]

I was waiting for him to light a cigarette while he was waiting for someone to bring the proper tools

[@zxggwrt]

God they must be hard up for warm bodies that can pass a drug test! Frankly, I'd rather have high AF runway baggage crew that are experienced.

[@Rx7man]

@@zxggwrt Bold of you to assume that guy passed a drug test (legitimately at least)

[@Rx7man]

@@renevile I'm pretty sure that was diesel, it's pretty hard to ignite, especially on a cold day.. and it's also the reason the styrofoam cup didn't instantly turn to goo

[@theonetrueanthonylong1843]

@@zxggwrt Competent* I'll take competence over experience anyday. Just because someone has been on the job doesn't mean they do it well.

[@robbgosset674]

Purely speculation but I'd imagine it's for a couple of reasons: Firstly to avoid triggering anyone that suffers from a fear of flying, if they hear "we are having a problem with *tech jargon*" then they might go "oh no, something's wrong with the plane, this is gonna go final destination on us" as cause a scene. Secondly, it's possible the crew may have been BSed to by the ground crew for whatever reason so may not actually be aware that the loading has been delayed by a faulty conveyor.

[@AkiSan0]

first thing for sure. the pilot knows if his bay is open or not, thus BSing him would mean not doing his job properly.

[@rebmcr]

Nobody wants the flight delayed by offloading a frightened passenger with their hold luggage.

[@stevedaenginerd]

As a aerospace mechanic I can say it is almost certainly both of these cases mixed in with a pinch of "not my job" by various parties in the chain from ground/ramp crew, gate crew, airline Ops, and the ticket agent(s) at the top of the JetWay. I've been in those situations before: Newbie: "He Joe! The belt truck won't start!" Joe: "Does it have gas?!" Newbie: "I'll add the gas, bring me the can." Joe: "That's not our job! Let Ops know and forget about it!" ... Lol

[@Heizenberg32]

It's the most innocuous problem though. If it was any kind of mechanical issue with the plane then, yeah, I would get the decision to make up a story. But it's a faulty conveyer. That itself would actually be a good, non-worrying, excuse to tell people to cover up some more serious problem. Seems to me like the pilot is just in the habit of lying.

[@Mrcaffinebean]

@@stevedaenginerd the “not my job” motto is real especially at big companies. Drives me nuts.

[@neoeinstein]

Also, something to note, pilots of these big airplanes don't have side view or rear view mirrors. They are often at the mercy of ground crews and the flight attendants to provide information about what is going on behind the flight deck. From within the flight deck, they would be able to tell that the cargo door was still open, but wouldn't really know _why_.

[@noahway13]

Also, that is why planes dim interior cabin lights during takeoff so attendants can see out the window.

[@fruitshuit]

I can imagine captains may not want to mention mechanical breakdowns, to avoid upsetting nervous or superstitious passengers. Still, even if that is the reason, "We're just getting all your baggage on, I'm just awaiting confirmation the handlers are done and we can go" would avoid saying anything about the broken down belt, but would still be a reasonable summary of the reason for delay.

[@railgap]

Pilot can't see it from the cockpit and they might not tell the whole truth so pilot might not know.

[@fruitshuit]

@@railgap Maybe! But would a cockpit not have a "cargo door open" light?

[@PregnantOrc]

@@fruitshuit Yes it will but the cargo door will also likely be held open until take-off in case any extra cargo being added last minute.

[@MarvinCZ]

@@PregnantOrc What last minute cargo? That's not how that works. Cargo is loaded with the help of loading crew on the inside. When they confirm all checked baggage (or other cargo) is loaded, they pack up and leave. They can't just leave the door open and toss something in there if it comes up later.

[@holdensaunders6264]

@@MarvinCZ On aircraft with one or more doors accessible from ground height they frequently do.

[@c172drv]

As an airline pilot there are several things that make this happen. First, we can't hardly see the wingtips let alone anything else. Two, we are the last to get any information, let alone good information. Messages that are passed go through many hands and are either coded to a generic type or are mutilated by the phone game. We are often just as frustrated with what is said. The pilots first comment about a paper to sign was nothing to do with the baggage. We have to sign a "release" for each flight saying we are with the planning for the flight.

[@annabelevans6497]

How reassuring.

[@PocketWomen]

It's always nice to watch people that take pride in their work and take care and follow safety procedures. Shame none of that happened at this workplace, Happy flying everyone!

[@jayerjavec]

Technically captain was not lying - since loading was not complete that piece of paper was not issued yet. As soon as these really funny but extremely incompetent ramp guys finished loading, load manager would print it out and finally get it signed by the captain. But important to note, ramp guys and ground crews are usually not working for the airline so let's not mix those two entities together.

[@hfric]

not to mention, all pilot\captain talks from the intercom are recorded to the blackbox... they only told something official over it , so it would be recorded as a explanation why the flight was delayed ... typical Bs , but its procedure

[@darkskyinwinter]

Pretty sure ramp works for the airline.

[@wobblysauce]

Most ground crew can plug into the plane and talk directly to the cabin crew.

[@ernestgalvan9037]

Some ramp work for airline (the crew and equipment that is emblazoned in airline livery), and other ramp work for airport authority.

[@sketchyAnalogies]

Agreed flight crew were worried about checks not getting updates on why the paper wasn't there

[@ParkerUAS]

Former pilot here... We often don't get the story and can't see what you see. In your instance the baggage handlers ran a diesel out of fuel. Adding diesel doesn't just make it work again, you have to purge the air. The handler probably has to notify a supervisor, who notifies airline rep, who notifies gate agent, who notifies pilot. This game of telephone means info is crap and we, the crew, know it. So instead of saying something DEFINITELY wrong and possibly concerning, we have standard things that are PROBABLY wrong, but non specific. Updates later on can add info and that is better than correcting false info. And the "we're waiting on paperwork" is usually true. We have to get a sheet from baggage on what was loaded and where (because often it doesn't fit to plan), we need the fuel sheet (because often it is over/under and we need to verify the load works), we need the passenger manifest (maybe seat 34A missed the flight), finally we finalize and verify weather/flight plan. Oh, and don't get me started on ATC issues that are really hard to explain to non-aviation nerds.

[@DeviantOllam]

My wife and I will totally listen to anything aviation-nerd-related that you wish to share in future. 👍😂👍

[@ParkerUAS]

@@DeviantOllam Haha, thanks. I will, usually, defer to far better Aviation Nerd YTers such as @blancolirio, but here is an example. The biggest ATC/routing type issue that is a pain to explain is t he "penalty box". This is where we are delayed and hold out on the ground either before take off or after landing. This is usually because a gate isn't open. Why not take off if a gate isn't open at an airport we are 4 hours away from? Because air travel works like a choreographed dance. Empty gates means less $$$ for the airline and airport, so they plan to have a plane come in as soon as one leaves. This doesn't always (well, actually almost never) go according to plan. Let's say that the 0530 flight from Seattle to Chicago has a passenger not following instructions and that delays us (due to their booting off) until 0550. We'll, we were supposed to land at Chicago at exactly 1030 in Chicago. As we didn't add fuel in this delay, I can only speed up so much to make up time. Let's say I shave 10 minutes off. We're landing 10 minutes late, that will cause issues in Chicago, but wait Seattle has a problem too. You see the overnight from Fairbanks to Seattle landed at 0535 and was supposed to get our gate, but we are still there, so they hold out in a penalty box. They get to the gate at 0555, 20 minutes late. That plane leaves at 0700 for LAX, but it has to be unloaded, cleaned, fueled, crew swapped, and loaded in 20 minutes less time. If the ground crew has an issue (like running a belt loader out of fuel) it delays that 0700 departure and pushes delays onto the next plane. Maybe the airline gate swaps and saves the times that way. This is usually why when you check in it is one gate then swaps to another gate. Ok, so Seattle is working the issue of getting back on time, but Chicago now has to deal with it as we are late. Let's say the airline swapped gates and we are now going to an empty one (saves fuel from sitting and makes pax happy to get off the plane), but that puts us on the opposite end of the terminal from where we were. Of the 180 people on board, 16 are supposed to connect to Miami, and 11 are going to Boston. Qell, Miami and Boston outbound may be held at their gates to give passengers a chance to connect. Remember, if they miss because of the airline delay, the airline eats the cost of changing them to other flights, giving vouchers for food, possibly hotel rooms, etc. So, delay a plane 10 minutes and get the connections. But, you just passed the headache to Boston and Miami. You can see how without awesome staff coordinating things and making up time, an unruly passenger in Seattle can affect flights across the US. Throw weather into the mix and you see how a thousand flights get canceled quickly. Part of the way this may get handled is hold a plane on the ground (take offs optional, landings mandatory) and move the time frames around. There is still a lot more to it, but this is already long winded. So, the next time you are stuck on a plane staring at a terminal and going nowhere, blame some jackass that refused to sit and put on a seat belt in whatever town you dislike at that time.

[@needsanewname414]

Just a guess, as my only aviation experience is military, not civilian, but the air crew probably had no idea what was happening. The pilots are in the middle of their preflight procedures, talking to the tower, things like that, and the FA's are busy setting up the passenger compartment and getting everyone settled. The piece of paper the captain was referring to is mostly likely the weight and balance form, which the loadmaster (or whatever the civilian equivalent is called) has to fill out and sign off on before the plane can move at all. Plus the ground crew has to get all their equipment free, close up the cargo hatch, tie down all the luggage, and then verify that everything is set up the way its supposed to be set up. All in all the aircrew was probably as frustrated as the passengers were, wondering what the hell ground was doing and where the hell the weight and balance authority was to sign the W/B sheet. Sure, they could look out the window, but without talking to anyone or getting the ground crew manager on the radio (which can be unreasonably hard to do sometimes lol) they most likely were totally out of the loop.

[@JRWhitbey]

Could the piece of paper they're waiting on be the weights & balance sheet, which couldn't be completed until everything was loaded? Trying to give the pilot the benefit of doubt here, so could be some legitimacy in his claim if the ground crew wasn't done and the paperwork couldn't be completed yet.

[@syber-space]

It definitely could be that the pilot is telling a half-truth there to avoid saying anything that sounds scary. It is probably true they can't leave due to some paperwork that needs to be completed after the hatch is sealed, but the printer might be a bit of a lie to save the ground crew face.

[@JamesLewis-yz7wl]

I'm wondering if it isn't a half lie as well, there is a piece of paper, but that's not...the whole story

[@jayerjavec]

That Sir is absolutely correct. Only when loading is finished load manager will get it to the captain. So, all good from ops side.

[@Volvary]

The captain still lied in saying that "everything was loaded and ready" for some reason

[@michaelfitz4351]

@@Volvary "We've got everything boarded..." meaning the passengers and their carry-ons are on board but doesn't mean the externals aren't complete. It's a half-truth/lie depending on which way you look at the glass.

[@vaderjo]

At least with the new conveyer, they kept the wheel chocks out of the path of danger and safely sitting on the fender!

[@beergeekcom]

Don't always assume everyone knows everything going on just because you can see it through your window. Pilot is busy doing his thing and probably didn't have the final write off / total of what was loaded on the plane, so he was telling the truth. Not to mention, how reassuring would it be if he did know what was going on and said the ground crew are being dumb asses and spilling gas everywhere. We gotta wait for them to figure out their shit before we can leave. And third, ground crew probably not reporting back that they screwed up and spilled gas everywhere and broke a conveyer.

[@AkiSan0]

i call bs on that. the pilot knows when his bay is open or not. thus as the other comment suspected, i would second that this was done to prevent panic. thankfully it was dev who saw this and not a karen who would scream the hell out of the plane and it would have gone ballistic (one way or another..).

[@Hans-gb4mv]

@@AkiSan0 well yeah, if he wants he can check the door status. But at the end of the day that's part of the checklist before pushing back. Something you only start doing after you received your loading sheets and signed off on it.

[@Darnpilot]

@@AkiSan0 Not valid. The doors stay open until the last minute (or until they are full). The pilots do not use the "door open" light as an indicator of anything amiss until the main door is closed and they anticipate push back.

[@markwhitis]

Pilots can't see what you can see. Their windows face forward and even if they open a window and stick their head out they can't see what is happening on the aft side of the conveyor truck They don't know the baggage throwers were trying to incinerate everyone in board. Should have reported that to your fright attendant. Should report it now to FAA hotline web form or at least ASRS (but they can't take enforcement action on ASRS reports). "Where is my baggage report?" "We'll have that printed out in a bit, we are having technical difficulties"

[@Jehty_]

@@AkiSan0 what a stupid reason you made up. Prevent panic

[@Erpyrikk]

the pilot is technically correct that they are waiting for a form stating the plane is loaded.

[@EliteAmmunition]

Technically he is telling the truth. He can't sign the departure docs until they are submitted to him and as long as the plane isn't fully loaded yet no form.

[@Giftedbryan]

Gasoline and styrofoam cups? Yeah you're making Napalm there bud

[@jimurrata6785]

If it is gas, and not diesel, the maintenance workers are going to have a hell of a time getting the styrene goop out of the fuel system. Congratulations on putting much needed ground equipment out of service!👏

[@Derfboy]

But is it still for kids?

[@RobertSzasz]

@@jimurrata6785 jet fuel is basically kerosene, but it will eat polystyrene.

[@RobertSzasz]

Finally got to the important bit of the video. 😑 What a maroon. Hope it was gas and not diesel

[@PhilsMyFriend]

That's not how you produce napalm chief. Polystyrene is not a petro fuel gelling agent. You double boil kerosene deisel and or petrol with aluminium naphthenate to produce napalm.

[@SirProfessorBadass]

You likely knew more than the pilot did in this scenario. He/she is up front in the cockpit doing all of the other preflight checks that are required prior to departure, and likely all they were told is there's a delay and they'll get the weight and balance paperwork soon. Ops likely doesn't know shit, because the ramp guys are just telling them "we'll be done soon."

[@per1odju1ce]

the illusion of safety, tell a bunch of mouth breathers that there is a problem with a piece of machinery at the airport they assume theyre going to die in a firey crash.

[@chriholt]

The pilot probably couldn't sign off on his paperwork until all the cargo/luggage was loaded.

[@jsihavealotofplaylists]

You're allowed to spill up to 5 square feet of fuel before needing to worry, but any amount is worrisome.

[@briancox2721]

The pilots probably can't see the belt loading issues from the flight deck. If they aren't the ones telling the lie, they'd be passing it along unwittingly. If they were waiting for a cargo loading or weight and balance form and they are only told it isn't printed yet, that's all they have to go on.

[@airplaneian]

In fairness to the pilots, in their eyes what they're waiting on before pushing is a load sheet so maybe instead of ripping on the ground crew (who have pretty miserable jobs anyway) they just mention that. Also, fwiw, it's not like airlines treat pilots, FAs and other employees that much better than pax, especially the US domestics.

[@beardyface8492]

You might also have added, the action filmed wasn't in their likely line-of-sight, it's not like airliners have big rear view mirrors the way trucks do. It's ATC's job to make sure there's nothing in their blind-spots, unlike drivers of trucks.

[@airplaneian]

@@beardyface8492 You'd be surprised what you can see from the cockpit. The side windows wrap around and most airliners have more or less 130 degrees FOV left/right from the neutral seat position. You can't see exactly what's happening at the fuselage, but you can still see a decent amount of the ground ops.

[@Stjaernljus]

My thoughts were two things from a customer service/hospitality course handbook: Never assign blame in front of customers. Will the customer gain anything from the information?

[@Broken_Yugo]

Yeah, I'll hazard a guess the pilot/crew knew the ground crew were just busy engaging in incompetent jackassery, but like it or not it'd be rather unprofessional to say that aloud. And as you say, gains the passengers nothing.

[@SurmaSampo]

@@Broken_Yugo But if the customer knows you are lying then you lose the only thing of value in the relationship, trust.

[@marctreal]

They wouldn't have to be unprofessional, though. "We are waiting on cargo loading" would have worked

[@MrHerrjon]

Nice to see that the gas can itself had a "safety top" - he had to work extra hard to deliberately spill all of that gas.

[@vote4carp]

As a Michigander, all I can say is, "WELCOME TO DETROIT"

[@PJ_Sloan]

The "piece of paper" they're waiting on is the weight and balance sheet. It's filled out when the plane is loaded and let's the flight crew know what they have on board and any potential center of gravity issues.

[@obsoleteprofessor2034]

I was going through Chicago during the late 70's. We had a nice outdoor deck where we could watch our airplane prepped. After an hour delay, we were told there were mechanical issues and would have to wait for another airplane. 2 hours later we boarded a prop job. Waiting and waiting, cockpit door open, a mechanic walked in and swapped an instrument out of the panel. One engine started fine but the other gave a strong smell of fuel as it spun up. A few minutes later they got it running. Chicago to Menomenee, low level and very rough air. There must have been a problem with the environmental system because there was fog creeping out of the cabin roof. The open vents would shoot out a wet mist. Closing the vents would cause water to drip from above me. Landed very very hard in strong wind. The hotel was there on time with the van. When they slid back the door, the track broke off from rust and the door almost fell completely off. We got it back in and made it to the hotel. Return trip, Chicago to Denver. Stayed on the airplane to offload and load up people. All set and ready to go..announcement.. airplane broke. Offloaded, waited for another airplane. Loaded up 2 hours later, it started to snow. We got off the ground when the pilot told us the airport was closed due to slow. Flew into cloudless LA. Home.

[@wellybobs4403]

That guy just got fired.. he is SUPPOSED TO REMOVE THE ELEVATOR BEFORE HE STARTS SLOSHING FUEL ALL OVER THE AREA.

[@JesseUnderscoreMartin]

"Mommy, why does my mail smell like gasoline?" - Deviant, 2021

[@aaronrosenthal5310]

Trying to clip you over the finish line. Your channel helped a friend of mine take steps to get away from a stalker. ETERNALLY THANK YOU! Hope you and yours are fantastic! Happy Holidays and the rest!

[@s5pilot85]

As an airline captain, you obviously have never ridden with me because I can be brutally honest about whatever is going on. However, there may have been several things going on, one of which was a paperwork issue at the gate. I can't speak for Delta mainline, but we often have that at the company I fly for.

[@KateGrayCode]

I’ve seen a plane disembarked and a swap done because the coffee maker didn’t work. It was an electrical failure of some sort, obviously the coffee maker wasn’t on the minimum equipment list. Our pilots were generally honest with the PAX. Instead of lying, they would sometimes be evasive, but there are indeed some things that passengers are better off not knowing. Like the specific reasons the captain aborted take off twice and refused to try a 3rd time in the same aircraft. “Mechanical issues” is a fine explanation, once they get back to the gate.

[@davidellis1625]

I’d bet good money the pilot had no clue the actual reason why his release papers were taking so long. You were better informed via your window than the pilot was from his seat, and that’s not terrifying at all…

[@zopepope]

This is the answer right here. Source: am pilot. Probably looking for weight and balance/cargo numbers. Has no idea why it’s delayed, just that he can’t go without it.

[@AkiSan0]

bullshit. they KNOW if their loading bay is open or not. also the pilot can look out the window if he wants to or as dev said, just talk to the tower why the loading bay is still open though its only "paperwork" he is waiting for.

[@zopepope]

@@AkiSan0 lol, I see you’re not a pilot….

[@syber-space]

@@AkiSan0 the pilot definitely couldn't see what's going on there from their window in the cockpit. They do probably know that loading is taking more time than usual and that the paper will come once that is complete, but it wouldn't surprise me if the exact reason is unknown to them and they're just making a plausible and lighthearted guess to calm passengers.

[@danpowell806]

@@AkiSan0 the ATC tower dgaf what is happening on the non-movement area. A ramp control operator, if there is one, is going to be too busy making sure passengers don’t stray away from their route to the staircase.

[@greggmouritzen7478]

My favorite came after this anouncement: Flight attendant wakes me up 30 minutes into the 4 hour flight... Pilot: "Ladys and Gentlemen, we are currently flying at 35,000 feet. We have an indicator light, in the cargo hold that cannot be ignored. We will be landing in 10 minutes." Been flying all my life, and never hear an announcement like that. Flight Attendant #1: "Oh, there's nothing to worry about this happens all the time." "Just an unscheduled stop" Fligh attendant #2 (30 year veteran, so she told me) gets on the intercom, crying trying to review the emergency landing instructions. Flight Attendant #1 repeats several times there is nothing to worry about. Flight Attendant #3 make vague comment about the emergency doors, and how they will be leaving them connected until we come to a complete stop and the ground crews can assess the situation. As we are landing, fire engines, are set at the end of the runway. As we pass over they follow us. We don't pull to the terminal, but stop about 200-300 yards away. Fire Engines surround us. Flight Attendant #1: "Nothing to worry about, just routine" (paraphrased) Flight Attendant #3: "Sorry for the inconveniece, but we will need to unboard the aircraft while ground crews work on the issue. There is nothing to worry about." I look out the window, and one of the fire engines, has run a fire hose directly under my seat, where it appeared the cargo door was. They unloaded us in groups of thirty to a bus. A Fire crew of three get on the plane. Full Turnouts, SCBA, and Thermal camera, scanning the floor and walls, stacked like they were swat team. Of course, I am in the back amont the last to get off the plane, Flight Attendant #2 still telling us there is "nothing to worry about" and "This happens all the time" If I remember correctly, carry-ons were left behind, and delivered to the terminal later. I finally get off the plane, get to the bus. Driver (Firefighter), without prompting: "Yeah, there was a fire." We sat in the terminal for 3 hours waiting for a "Rescue Flight", where they transfered all the baggage. New Flight Crew, Free drinks, Free Alcohol, Free food. Full sized chip containers, not the mini ones they normally sell. Almost like they were trying to distract us. Other than the Fire Fighter/ Bus Driver, no other mention of fire, or the potential danger we were in.

[@kevtheis]

Good ol' Detroit... The whole "waiting for last minute paperwork" always seems to be a good reason to use for just about any type of delay, and there is usually truth behind it without actually letting everyone else know what's really going on. It does a couple of things; first it avoids creating a situation where people may get upset or worried that something might go wrong on the plane itself, and it also spares the flying public from hearing the "actual" reasons which are usually mundane and boring at best. In this case though, I think I would have just announced that we were waiting for the last of the bags to be loaded and will be underway shortly. Simple enough. Oh, and if you've ever boarded a flight, taxied out, and sat there on the ground for a couple hours with the engines off and were told it was due to weather, there's a good chance (though not always) that the crew knew this before the flight. Many airlines only pay crew based on time spent away from the gate, so they'd get a couple extra hours of pay. Full disclosure, not an airline pilot, but am a flight attendant.

[@holdensaunders6264]

Fwiw, this is not just about pay...airline managements usually are on the same page here as on-time departures is an important metric, if not THE metric.

[@kevtheis]

@@holdensaunders6264 well that is very true as well!

[@crimsonhalo13]

This video confirms you don't need to be smarter than a brick to work for Delta. All that's missing is the sequence where he accidentally lights the whole thing on fire.

[@dekkarmcgowan1423]

So, a little background on why the rampers don't work for the airlines. In the 70's/80's working an airline ramp job was a solid well-paying job that required a lot of knowledge on how to park, pushback, load the aircraft, work the lavatory/water reserves and fuel it. It was a grueling injury heavy job that paid well and came with many great benefits including flight passes. Unions in the north of the US were great but the south didn't have anyone watching over their backs. When the price of fuel started to go up in the 70's and continued airlines started to look for ways to cut costs. One way was to screw over their employees, as the decades went on a job that had great pay, benefits and job security started to lose that. Companies started to take away employees' pay by putting pay increase ceilings just above the average so that when workers hit that ceiling they could not keep up with the cost of living in their areas over decades. Someone starting working for Delta in 90's for example at 18 would be 50 today and likely would have hit a pay ceiling in their late 30's early 40's. United and other companies also cut workers' pensions completely. Companies also in the southern part of the states just let go all their ramp agents and started or hired third party companies to just do the ramp work. These companies bid for contracts at the lowest billing which was then passed on to future workers at minimum wage pay. It was entirely possible to work for Delta Ground Services, a subsidary of Delta Airlines, and get paid minimum wage, less than (comparatively) what was paid for the same job years before. The guys on that ramp might be making 15 an hour to work in a job that destroys your body within a decade, due to injuries, aircraft hold lacking ergonoic space, working in the elements with little to no sick time. The beltloader is fueled from a truck not from a can but most of the airlines don't care about the condition of the general service equipment and a fair amount of GSE don't have working gauges. Likely the gauge was broken on the beltloader, the fueler missed the overnight fueling (unknown to the ramper as they don't work for the same company). Once it is up to the aircraft it doesn't move if there is no gas, the belt doesn't come down and if slipped into neutral is not "under control" so it is easy for the beltloader to come forward trapping him between the beltloader and the fuselage. They don't have a funnel because it's not generally fueled by the can, likely they aren't even supposed to have a can but the station has a working relationship with the fueling company and everyone knows how terribly the entire system works and its failings. So, you get a company that won't let them have a gas can to avoid situations like this but also doesn't care enough to keep their GSE in shape because that costs too much money to operate and sets up everything to rely on a scheduling system of fueling as the only failsafe. Basically, it's not this guy's fault his company didn't supply him with the needed materials (a working beltloader, a funnel) and he is likely the reason why your plane left in the first place because the other option would have been to wait for a fueler to stop fueling something else and come fuel this loader. Considering we had to beg the company we worked for to just supply water that wasn't running through pipes that hadn't been changed out since the 50's while we worked on a tarmac that was 130 degrees daily in the summer it's amazing he even found a cup.

[@spamin8r]

imagine how much faster ya'll could've left had they just put the mail in the plane by hand manually while they waited for a working belt machine. They should give ground crews bonuses for speed.

[@Porama6400]

I am not a pilot. but here's my speculation: you might be able to see the ground crew from cabin windows. but from the cockpit, view is somewhat limited, they might only saw them moving the truck away and assumed it's finished?

[@bethcannon6435]

I am not a pilot but my father is and I have heard many a story about these sorts of lies: they are really just to not cause a panic. Most people don’t know what is and isn’t a major emergency so if you say something like “we had a major fuel leak on the apron” there might be someone who doesn’t fully understand and panics and causes a scene. Versus a paperwork mishap is something everyone gets and knows isn’t a major thing to panic over. Hope that explains it!

[@absolutechaos13]

I had a Captain announce that the reason we were delayed was due to a bad radio. I looked at my traveling companion and asked "don't they have 4 radios?"

[@StrokeMahEgo]

2 com and 2 nav, generally.

[@StrokeMahEgo]

That said, if you're on the ground it's probably better to try and fix it now.

[@sixstringedthing]

I'm stunned that the baggage handler didn't seem to realise that his hamfisted display was clearly visible to several passengers. I've done some stupid shit on the job before, but never when there were multiple witnesses present.

[@pfdx]

I think that in the commercial aviation industry “waiting for the paperwork” is the catch all for any delay since nearly every procedure has to be signed off. My favorite “don’t have the paperwork” story was the 30 minute taxi from the end of the runway back to the gate for unknown authorities to remove a passenger. The pilot sounded much happier after the door was closed but that flight only got worse. But that’s another story…

[@Rx7man]

I wanna hear it!

[@erikhaw7313]

Me too!

[@Jazz3006]

Me three.

[@Daniel_1060]

me 4

[@jcast25]

Me 5!

[@AccelHeight]

Most ground equipment runs off diesel and/or Jet A, still not the brightest idea to fill the belt loader like that. The Captain isn’t lying to you. From his perspective the exact malfunction isn’t important, as he can do nothing about it. Ops is well aware of the issue and reallocated resources, rather quickly for an airline, to fix the problem and minimize the delay so that they can still hit the A-15 (arrival within 15 min of scheduled). When those ramp guys have scanned and loaded the last bag, the load planning software can then “close out” the ramp. The gate agents are likely already closed out, as are flight ops (the pilots). With everybody closed out, they will print a final manifest that is signed by the Captain and then the flight is legal to start. That is the piece of paper he is referring to. I’d be happy to go into more detail offline if you like. For whatever it’s worth, I hope this helped. Safe travels

[@fiver-hoo]

If that particular ground equipment runs on diesel or JetA, now there is a whole other clusterfuck. They are either putting unleaded in the equipment, or they are storing diesel in a red container marked "GAS". What could possibly go wrong lol.

[@x_x_w_]

Belt loaders come in all engine types. Diesel units are typically kept in the southern states because of the generally warmer weather. Most GSE in the colder climates run on four cylinder gas Ford engines.

[@ColtonBlumhagen]

I've never seen a safety can like that. The ones I've seen that have the lever mechanism have a hose, so you put the hose in the tank while tilted, then release the lever & it's basically impossible to spill gas because as soon as you let go of the lever the flow stops. That is definitely the wrong container to be using. Cer0tainly going to end with a boom one day.

[@stevedunlop1934]

The one in the video is a type I safety can. Type I cans have a single, fixed opening for filling and dispensing. The ones you've seen are type II safety cans. Type II cans have a fill opening and then a separate dispensing opening with a donkey dick (sometimes called a "hose"). Type II safety cans have a number of drawbacks. They're more expensive. There are more components to leak. It isn't possible to get all the gasoline out of the donkey dick which means that the remaining gasoline evaporates while the safety can is in storage, posing both a safety risk and an odor problem. It isn't practical to clean the inside of the donkey dick so it's a possible source of contamination. Type I cans come with funnels, which are cone shaped so that it is possible to wipe them out with a rag. In many situations the funnel isn't necessary, if the equipment being filled has good access and a large enough fill opening. I use the Type I cans. I do not try to use a styrofoam cup as a dispensing aid though.

[@Streaky100001]

I doubt it. My guess is that car you saw pulling up right before they gave up trying to fuel it and pushed it away was likely a senior, who likely turned up and tore them a knew one for that, I highly doubt they'll be doing that again.

[@phil_nicholls]

I’m sure some other pilots will have commented already, but I CBA to read all 340+ posts! We’re fairly isolated at the front, often have no way of communicating with the ground staff (yes, we have the ability to set a horn off to ask for someone to ‘plug in’ and talk to us, but often times it’s ignored, and we’re in the dark as to what is really going on behind us)! You look to be sat quite low down in this video, so I’m going to assume a 737. I believe, but could be wrong, as I don’t fly that type, that the only indication they have of doors being open is a light that says ‘Doors’ - they may have no idea which doors are actually open, and they may assume it’s just the last passenger door. If the groundstaff have said to the skipper that they’re just printing the NOTOC (Notice to Captain) - often the last bit of paperwork, he (or she) will just take it as read that that’s what they’re waiting for - the fact that a NOTOC cannot be produced until the load has been finalised often means the aircraft will have been loaded before it’s produced. So he’s technically not lying, he’s telling you what he’s waiting on. The crew can only speak from their mental model of what’s going on, which may be different to what others are seeing outside. We don’t deliberately lie, we’re just telling it as it is from our perspective. We have to build our picture of the world from a combination of instruments, displays and what we’re told by others - no surprise we’re often the last to know what the fudge is really going on! 😁

[@grahampearson947]

Congrats on the 100k br0ther. Thank you for all your content thus far.

[@BallisticAviation]

I'm about 3/4 of the way to gaining my commercial pilots certificate and I can tell you they do it mainly to keep the roughly 100-200 people on board calm. Nothing worse than having a bunch of panicking screaming people on a thin metal tube waiting at the terminal. This isn't the norm I don't think and I've been on a number of flights where my captains have told me that the APU was malfunctioning or INOP and we had to wait on a start cart or a de-icer truck etc. I also don't think there is any incentive or pressure from the airlines for their pilots to outright lie to the passengers about delays but I do thing some captains will opt to do it out of fear of having a mad rush of passengers attempt to exit the plane for what could be something fairly minor that may seem dangerous to a layman. Also on the paperwork thing. You generally don't get your printout from the gate desk until after all fuel/passengers and baggage are on board and you can't fly without signing off on that so that both the airline, NTSB, etc all have a record of what YOU (the captain) allowed your plane to depart the gate with. Are some pilots assholes? Yes, but I don't think a vast majority of them would just outright lie to you out of spite.

[@larsschroter6994]

There is more incentive than just not wanting to frighten the passengers to deflect to paperwork issues. When the delay-causing issue can be expected to be observable from the windows, there will soon be people leaving their seats and moving around the plane to get a better look themselves on why it's taking so long.

[@MarvinCZ]

@@larsschroter6994 People will notice when everyone on the starbord side is looking out their window, recording with their phones, pointing and laughing at the loading crew antics.

[@erikhaw7313]

Very interesting perspective, I figured it was to prevent fear. And not really having the time or desire to explain everything that goes on, since I am sure things happen all the time

[@danpowell806]

You’re 3/4 of the way to a commercial multi engine license, and already talking with airline pilots?

[@BallisticAviation]

@@danpowell806 I know tons of them personally. Some of them were finishing their 1500 hours when I was barely starting flight school.

[@TheCoolV1994]

I think the issue with communication is that the pilots have their checklist to do as well as ground crews check list... The pilots are waiting for ground crew to approve that all cargo is loaded but as far as pilots know they still have a check list pending waiting for approval from ground crew to say all cargo loaded, but since they can't finish loading, they don't have the paper they need to begin take-off, so therefore pilots need a paper and ground crew is screwing around, pouring gas in styrofoam, and not able to complete their checklist so... Miscommunication and ignorance leads to another complication at a job-site.

[@HALO-2304]

Probably sounds better than "The ground crew are a bunch of incompetent fuck-ups."

[@andyp7449]

To be fair they are under tremendous pressure to bang out aircraft before the they're due to go out. The prevalent attitude is to not give a f**k and just get things done on time by whatever means necessary.

[@HALO-2304]

@@andyp7449 You're probably right, but from the clip, I didn't see a whole lot of hustle.

[@ryanwilson_canada]

Wow. That's a whole new level of ineptitude. Im used to seeing that in my line of work when I go fix other people's work. I had hoped that airlines would be better trained. 🤦‍♂️ Have a Merry Christmas Dev, hope everyone is staying safe, and taking care.

[@holdensaunders6264]

Aside from other comments about avoiding triggering folks with a fear of flying when it comes tor mechanical/weather issues, in this case I'd just suspect a game of telephone. Educated guess here, but here we go: The pilots are in communication with ops who is in communication with the ramp agents, but both are party-line frequencies full of random chatter and everyone has generally limited awareness of what *precisely* is going on. Perhaps only one ramp crew member - the supervisor - has an actual radio in, and is also trying to do 5-6 other things. Ramp probably told ops they are "almost done, last 2 items" when the ops people asked at the pilots behest, so the pilots (who can't see back that far from up front) are assuming some kind of issue with the paperwork...not the physical loading and GSE. In my experience, not being super forthcoming with a precise problem has been a pretty common issue. Once had to do a late plane swap, deplaned and reboarded in about 20 minutes. Bags? "On their way" for an hour and a half. And as the captain physically walking around looking for more information from people, and my first officer asking around on frequency, we couldn't get any more precise detail than that. It's not that anyone here is trying to ruin anyone else's day, or lie about the goings-on, its just that accurate communication is pretty challenging in the airport environment. I'd suggest you consider Hanlon's razor here...and hope you have some better experiences in the future!

[@mikethemaniacal]

i just found your channel dude and im really enjoying it. thanks a million.

[@MrTylerNinja]

WOW!!??? I thought your "printer issue/paper need" comment at the start of the video was for exaggerated humor BUT to actually hear the captain say it I AM FLABBERGASTED to say the least.

[@jacobebrock]

God I love you man. You have been a legend for years. Also ask 74 gear why pilots and firsts lie about stuff like this. I do watch some aviation stuff too..

[@csours]

Dance like there's nobody watching, work like Deviant is watching.

[@edm3048]

I had a job, where occasionally we'd have system issues, server went down, power failure, shit happens... We were required to tell callers that we were undergoing scheduled maintenance. We couldn't even vaguely explain that there was a problem of any kind. Because corporate decided that "Something has gone wrong, it's being fixed" is more of a blemish on the company than "We're down at 3pm on a thursday on purpose"

[@Derfboy]

Probably the ATC in tower didn't bother to tell the captain what was really going on and the captain/1st officer are too busy with preflight checklists and cockpit briefings/contingency plans to even bother looking outside. But I'm guessing so take that for what you will. ;) Awesome video, man. Nice to see ya just fking around...lol

[@CLove511]

I got one for you. Sitting at the very back of the plane, pilots initiated takeoff, and it really just felt like something was holding us back. Everything was bumping, and it just was a lot louder experience than usual. Once we're in the air, pilot comes on and says they need to keep the landing gear down because the brakes are really hot for some unknown reason, so they need to cool off before they can retract them. They weren't about to tell us, but obviously they had some sort of brake engaged while we were taking off.

[@andrewfarenci5085]

Actually, I find it quite surprising that you only have 99k subscribers. I would expect at least double that. Happy Holidays!

[@Graham_Rule]

That last item being loaded at 9:21 is probably someone's only hope of independent mobility when the plane lands. I hope it wasn't too badly damaged.

[@MrHerrjon]

I once witnessed a ground crew using squeegee mops to collect a bunch of spilled aviation fuel. They were putting it in 5 gallon buckets and pouring it back in to the fuel truck. Didn't inspire confidence at all.

[@itsonlybrad2278]

Lmao thanks for the laughs Dev. Happy holidays!

[@ArcticNemo]

“Why are you maniacs watching my channel?!” It builds a skill set that makes techs very dangerous, and respected when they talk about security.

[@EngineeringAndRestoration]

Ground crew have to physically wire into the aircraft to speak to the pilots, comms aren't as fluid as you may think. Pilots just have to sit tight, complete their lists and await clearance, Clarence.

[@MorbidEel]

It is probably because most people are more emphatic about bureaucratic paperwork. So citing paperwork as the reason has a better chance of appeasing people. You can see stuff out the window but that doesn't mean it can't also be paperwork! The truth won't get the plane off the runway any faster so the goal is to keep the passengers less angry.

[@dragonusmc0311]

I would send that to the airline.

[@pyromen321]

My favorite is when they tell you the flight is 30 minutes delayed, but flightaware shows you that your plane is two hours away from even landing.

[@TheHeroPercy]

I’m laughing at when the push the first conveyor away that it says spare on the front. Like it’s clearly not their favorite looking at the new one that replaced it.

[@chalkdust355]

"Careful, some of it's gettin in there." 🤣

[@JpWi]

Type II cans have a built in metal nozzle/funnel. To be fair though, they are about $10 more

[@fiver-hoo]

The brand of can in the video comes with a "permanently" attached plastic funnel. Which someone has managed to remove/destroy/lose. Larry Curly and Moe in action.

[@mandc20022]

Thank you for showing that mail going in because it was working my nerves

[@jeffbrownstain]

The level of inadequacy I just witnessed is astounding. If I was watching what you were just there I'd have been getting off that plane pretty quickly.

[@lordhelix1458]

"Now we're just lighting the christmas spirit on fire" LMAO

[@BlackSoap361]

Why does he even have a gas can without a spout? Not to mention the misuse of what are probably stolen milk crates.

[@evilsam4]

Two words new guy

[@evilsam4]

Honestly it's the same problem at many jobs. Do more work or if lucky same work at half the time. And then there's higher ups that don't want to replace shit that the new guys that u hired for cheap broke.

[@jonathanbailie]

Got a good chuckle from this, thanks!

[@gordsec]

Merry Christmas to you, Tarah, and all of your family. Thanks for the content, I am hoping for more of the same in 2022. Stay safe out there

[@Mike_Neukam]

I used to work on the Jetways at BWI. I've seen rampers do some crazy shit. One time I saw AirTran struggling to push back a 717 in a snow storm. They were trying to push the push back tractor with a belt loader. It didn't work very well. I used to have a picture of it.

[@BryanTorok]

Ramsey Electronics used to make a passive broadband air band receiver. While not type accepted for the purpose, it did not generate RF so it could it could not interfere with the airplane instruments. It would pick up whatever was close enough. It was great to use at the airport and in flight as you could hear the pilots in real time.

[@justingraham4140]

Essentially they are waiting for the piece of paper, we just don’t know what’s delaying the piece of paper from getting to us.

[@elk7308]

That was painful to watch! I can only assume it's a relatable excuse that avoids drawing attention to the actual spectatable problem. +1 for shinigami eyes 😎

[@unarei]

I'd recognize that out of place green color anywhere

[@rice0009]

As for "how much gas does it take", if it ran out of gas, there needs to be enough in the tank to reach the pickup, refill the fuel line and filter as well as enough to run the engine for a few minutes. Usually you have to have a few gallons of gas to start a Car and it can be as many as 10 to start something like a Suburban (first hand experience!) with a big tank. Basically, DON'T let things run out of gas.

[@pawel72435]

The pilots may not even be aware of this situation. They may not be able to see what you do and I can imagine the ground crew didn't report what is the issue and just told them they will be done in a moment.

[@cedrusthe1st]

I worked for AAA in Orlando, worked down to Disney area. We might have 4-6 calls waiting on tow trucks or service trucks, we were told the wait time is always ‘less’ than 60 minutes. Our hours were more like two!

[@anarchisttechsupport6644]

When you see the moment that the workers decide they need a union... And the pilot sides with management.

[@PTMG]

Gotta love that I can't bring a bottle of Dasani through TSA but they let people like this within a stones throw of an airplane

[@nedj10]

Spark TV just dropped a video on the luggage processing at ATL, when they showed the TSA cutting a lock off someone's bag, I immeditatly thought of you. Happppppy Holidays :D

[@62Cristoforo]

Pouring gasoline by hand, under a packed airplane is criminally negligent. I would have stood up out of my seat and yelled to the flight crew “there’s a madman pouring gasoline on the tarmac, under this plane!”

[@loam6740]

That refuel could have been a three stooges bit, that was hard to watch

[@AkiSan0]

bless you and tara! hope to see more from you next year! :)

[@FuquarProductions]

Now, the real issue here is that is the incorrect type of can to be using in this application. Why does the ground crew not have the proper equipment?

[@Nano0k]

Likely because the airport does not appear to have a proper ground crew.

[@justinkeefe3456]

Congrats on all the subs! I’ve learned a ton for you, much appreciated brother. Happy holidays everyone

[@awmperry]

That strikes me as a badly designed fuel port. And a completely non-designed training programme.

[@andyp7449]

Training program and airport worker do not go together xD

[@x_x_w_]

It's a perfectly usable fuel port, when you use the fuel nozzle like you're supposed to before you run it out of gas.

[@htomerif]

I remember being on a flight from LAX or whatever to Frankfurt. Every half an hour for 6 hours, the pilot would come on and say "we should be leaving in about 15 minutes". This was before the law change that limited the sardine-can time to 3 hours. No idea what was wrong since I was in the middle "F U" row of 5 seats.

[@Delphinus-Keya]

I just recently had a flight from Chicago to Tampa and when we arrived in Tampa we had to hold short of the gate because, as the captain said. "We surprised them and must not have know we were coming" and had no ground crew available to greet us. 😅

[@seanbarraclough2484]

Happy to see the 2 stragglers not left behind.

[@hewhoadds]

the look of stress on homies face when he jumps in to slam the brake… doesn’t seem like a great day for this dude 🙏

[@adrianhenle]

I love how he sniffs his hand, like, "Oh, is that gasoline?"

[@danpowell806]

The biggest lies are about “the delay is due to weather” and “there’s an ATC delay”.

[@DeviantOllam]

Yes, well, because weather related delays and certain air traffic delays are not the fault or responsibility of the airline therefore they don't get penalized and don't have to accommodate stranded pastures in the same way.

[@withamarshview1436]

Uh, actually those are the top reasons for delays.

[@Streaky100001]

I fail to understand how they are lies? Or do you suggest you're aircrew fly into unsafe weather conditions and head on into the 747? Personally I like arriving alive, even if it means I'm a little late.

[@johntollini6095]

My favorite was as an air traffic controller (at my home airport) in the back of an Eastern DC9 with my family on a Saturday morning (the slowest time of the week). After an extended delay at the gate, I watched a reserve pilot jog down the jet way, watched the cabin crew stow the door. Then the pilot comes on and says: "ATC has finally cleared us to push back". The smell of BS was overpowering.

[@danpowell806]

@@johntollini6095 maybe the reserve pilot asked ATC for clearance to push? Were you even close enough to a movement area to need ATC clearance to push?

[@gunnargu]

Congrats on 100k subs!

[@williamdixon8283]

First thing that jumped out to me was, obviously not west of the Mississippi. In my 10 years of service with the USN I must say such cavalier spilling of ground water contamination only occurs east of the Mississippi. The whole area would have been cordoned off with a boom and a couple of hundred pounds of oil dry. Not to mention the Fire crew showing up to insure safety during cleanup.