Why Do Galactic Empires Fail?

[@derekclinton9438]

9:05-9:15 As to why a Galactic Civilization would be ruled by an emperor, Frank Herbert says this: "Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristocratic forms. No government in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, government tends more and more to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class - whether that class be hereditary royalty, oligarchs of financial empires, or entrenched bureaucracy." We see evidence of this in the real world. In ancient Rome, they cast off the monarchy and formed a republic, but centuries later they formed an empire. After Rome fell, many feudal kingdoms arose whose kings held loose power, but over time their power became more centralized and absolute. Power seems to be cyclical in nature.

[@darthchingaso3613]

Many tribal non-western societies lacked social stratification than leads to hereditary elites and they lasted hundred even thousands of years, until Europeans started colonizing the world and brought those ways of life to and end.

[@Flakey101]

@@darthchingaso3613 Which just reinforces the point. Tribal forces tend not to be survivable to outside threats. You need to read more history as well. The same forces destroyed plenty of tribal organisations in the middle east and Asia 100s of years before Europeans got any where near them.

[@darthchingaso3613]

@@Flakey101 "outside" threats get wrecked by trial forces all the time, the mongols were tribal and wrecked how many empires? The comanche were tribal, the zulu, etc. Sure they dont have the same level of manpower as most empires and so they cant hold out indefinitely against larger groups of people with diseases they have no immunity for and whose home-bases are outside of their spheres of influences(but that's true for empires as well and not a unique flaw of "tribal forces") but to pretend tribal forces just cant survive outside forces is ridiculous considering many are still around and survived to modern times. There is a reason the us military uses a fighting system more based on tribal warfare practiced in north america instead of regimental block formations used by empires and why tribal people in places like Vietnam and Afghanistan outlasted so many empires and still exist to this day. Maybe you should expand your historical reading as history is full of empires who fall to tribal forces(from both within their own border and from outside) or fall due to contact with a larger empire(outside threat)...

[@Flakey101]

@@darthchingaso3613 You try to defend tribal nations by using two Empires with autocratic rulers and hereditary elites. The third the Comanche lost and were confined to reservations. Yes the tribes survived I never claimed they did not, but how many of them still rule themselves, and not been subsumed into a larger country with occasionally some self autonomy? ps Afghanistan is also not tribal but familial and family clans in nature. The US uses nothing like a tribal system of fighting. Please name a historic American tribe equiped with airplanes and heavy artillery. Which is the prime motivator in the current organisation set up, and the fact that absolutely no one fights in blocks any more. They are all not copying American native fighting style. It is the effects of modern weaponary that forces militaries to evolve into their current formations.

[@KateeAngel]

That is why we should get rid of any hierarchy. If hierarchy exists, it will with time become less and less meritocratic and more and more aristocratic, until the society collapses. Return to natural for humans egalitarian social organisation is better. Even if we have to reduce size of every political entity to the size of tiny community

[@awesomehpt8938]

It’s an immutable fact that all things are temporary. Even the stars themselves will one day be gone. Empires will at some point encounter crises that are just too overwhelming to overcome.

[@RoseJetExhaust]

At some point, an empire grows too large to sustain itself any longer. Because the people inside of this empire are not a homogeneous mass, problems will arise and lead to more problems, which can't be solved all across the empire's territories. But then again the growth and expanse is what makes an empire to a large extent.

[@Zarrov]

which brings a thought: what if an empire is designed to fall from the start? and then to recreate itself? instead of trying to desperately hold, it recedes in a controllable way, so that it can re-emerge again? Think Foundation but without collapse, instead, you allow gently for the empire to cease to exist. Let's say Trantor scales down, withdraws from the galaxy but in a way that makes the rest of the galaxy susceptible to it, having soft power influence over it. then it rebuilds and uses its central position in the galaxy to make a comeback, using the fact that there was no collapse and imperial withdrawal was gentle, while Trantor maintained decisive political weight.

[@stephenkenney8290]

@@Zarrov An interesting concept, though to pull it off the nation in question would have to possess a level of institutional adaptability human society today simply doesn't possess.

[@g.dalfleblanc63]

@@Zarrov As the heart of an empire, an imperial capital will be sought out and destroyed by people they have subjugated, and also by other imperialists, that's a huge obstacle to overcome to avoid destruction. If they change into a co-operative civilization, support for destruction will only come from 'not all there' in the mind individuals. Lets say an imperial civilization manages to pull back and maintain soft power even making people believe they are infact benign, in the dark forest scenario there will be an outsider civilization which will find the imperial capital in its weakened state and consume it. Then there are also cosmic events which will wipe out entire galaxies and much much more: black holes, big rips from expanding spacetime, excellerated 'localized' heat death.

[@wayando]

Action - Reaction ... Maybe all empires plant the seeds of their own destruction as the grow. Strong entities can only be destroyed from within.

[@robertfelton8374]

The problem with making travel and trade economically feasible, is that it makes war possible too.

[@Marinealver]

And Piracy, Arrrrrggg! 🏴‍☠️

[@88cryingwolf]

I see where you're coming from friend but I'm wondering what your alternative would be? For example, Japan engaged in isolationism for a long time and was no more peaceful for it.

[@secutor0972]

One atomic war can destroy humanity. If only every one realize that there will be no more war.

[@Paul-A01]

Trade makes war less likely.

[@scottofgreywaterwatch1298]

War is always possible, and most likely. History has shown war is a product for a multitude of reasons: expansion, religion, etc..

[@HappisakVideos]

This reminds me a lot of the British Empire. The Empire at it's height has all the worlds oceans and 3/4 of all the land masses under it's control. It takes weeks, months even to get messages from one location to another. There was no telecommunications, no aircraft to fly rapidly over long distances. Communications was done via ship on danger filled journeys. Many colonies were run by governors or military generals with sole overeaching powers. I'm not talking about the good or bad the British may have done, I'm talking about the unwieldly nature of a vast Empire to control. Now take what I've said and apply it to interstellar space...

[@juanfranciscovillarroelthu6876]

Armys and wepons can win empires, But communications and logistics keep them, if this fail the empire fails

[@brad9180]

You clearly don't know anything about the British Empire. The electric telegraph was a massive factor in British administration of its empire

[@Eametsa]

@@brad9180 He obviously stated a time earlier than that.

[@brad9180]

@@Eametsa No he didn't, he's referring to the peak of our empire in the 19th century.

[@harkonen1000000]

British Empire's territorial peak was in 1926. They had a fair amount of telecommunication by that point.

[@MuantanamoMobile]

For large complex systems, the Distributed-decentralized system configuration is the most stable and scalable, this is not only seen in nature the largest living organisms - Armillaria ostoyae (fungus), Pando the quaking aspen tree forest (is actually one tree) and the largest living structure - the great barrier reef. Even in artificial systems like computer networks, software and infrastructure, distributed systems are the most stable and scalable since they don't have a single point of failure. So you would have to take out the entire distributed government system all at one or most of it to cause it to fail, unlike say a single point of failure like Trantor the heart of the Galactic government in Foundation.

[@AlucardNoir]

While true, humans are not fungi or coral. We are also not bonobo. Even the most primitive tribes ended up having a de facto leader to whom the tribe would listen in cases of emergency. While the human species might have been a distributed-decentralized system, we were deeply organizes at the tribal level. The problem is... well, ethnicity, race, culture, religion, language. Dunno if you read much history, but diversity has historically been the cause of strife, not it's solution, and diversity is the result of the system you advocate for. Long term, your system results in interstellar war, when one group no longer recognizes the other as human - which is something that is very likely to happen because of the many different environments humanity will end up inhabiting. I'm white european, that means I have Neanderthal genes in me. Not only could by ancestor procreate with a Neanderthal, but I can do so with every single other human of the opposite sex on the planet. I can't do that with a chimp, or a gorilla or an orangutan. Actual speciation will occur over the long run with people exposed to completely different environments, even if it's in the form of a ring species. We fight over cultural, linguistic and philosophical beliefs. Race, is a fairly new thing. But speciation? And this doesn't even go into the solutions and problem FTL communication and transport bring.

[@MuantanamoMobile]

@@AlucardNoir Not true. The San aboriginal "Bushmen" of the Kalahari and the Namib Desert in Sothern Africa, had a flat hierarchical egalitarian social structure for centuries, where everyone took part in decision making including the children, they had no chiefs lording over them. The countries of the EU used to have constant wars with each other, but no more now being bound in commerce as a single economic block. Despite having numerous differences among themselves. The same goes for Africa, even with internal strife in some countries you don't really have nation-states fighting each other anymore. In a future galactic empire, you could have the galaxy divided into equal sections with each tasked with specific production and specialities creating mutual dependence on each other. A distributed galactic supercomputer to manage resource allocation and monitor trade routes etc ensure no bias. Each section would have its own government with a seat on a galactic council that made galaxy-wide decisions on top of representing the interests of their section at the council. A sort of UN but without any superpowers loading it over the others, more like the Nordic Council - of Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland.

[@Dietrad]

@@AlucardNoir Tell me, which prosperious modern nation is organized tribal?

[@AlucardNoir]

@@Dietrad while the apperant answer is none - which is the point I was making - the question itself is an oxymoron. It's the equivalent of asking what white paint is black, what shallow pool is deep or what fast car is slow. For all intents and purposes national organization and tribal organization stand is stark contrast to one another. Hell, even tribal organization is more or less a contranym since the tribal organizations of most agrarian civilizations stand in stark contrast to the natural limit of around 150-200 people per tribe humans have been organized in for most of our existence. Go back in time far enough and you'll see tribes split at around 200 members. Agriculture changed that and while languages kept the word tribe, gens and the like, the actual meaning died. The modern tribes 5hat are tearing Sudan or lybia apart are ethnicities in the modern sense. The aforementioned San are are one of the ethnic groups still organized tribally.

[@MuantanamoMobile]

@@Dietrad Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland...If I understand what you mean correctly, if you mean a de-centralized government, then I would point to Switzerland which is broken up into autonomous cantons with a restricted and limited caretaker government.

[@Navigatortrue]

In the 40k universe there had been an advanced human society before the coming of old night as they called it and the collapse, the Emperor made himself the focal point to act as a unifying force.

[@ProfessorTerrible]

I think it's erroneous to say that we've outgrown Emperors or monarchy in the modern day. That assumes that political and social evolution is linear, constantly moving from worse to better. I think its more accurate to see political systems as forming in response to changing circumstances, almost cyclically. The monarchies that survived the early 20th Century largely did so by becoming (or already being) constitutional monarchies that radically altered their role from direct rule to serving a kind of embodiment of sovereignty. Constitutional monarchy actually has a lot to recommend itself, especially to a system of government that brings together a wide array of cultures and societies. It allows sovereignty to be embodied in a person who can be outside the ebb and flow of political debate. Multiple different legal jurisdictions and cultures can co-exist while still identifying as part of a common society in a way that I'm not sure non-monarchical systems can manage as well.

[@DeSpaceFairy]

I would argue that definitively a thing of the past. Monarchies rules through a clutch hand on resources, ignorance of the mass and fears. Nowadays that's like the Wutang says crash rules everything around me. In the future centralised systems will be put on redundancy by AGI (with maybe the rest of humanity). With the actual trajectory there is no coming back as a species, either we become one with the machine and totally alien, or we ends into a Mad Max like ripoff but with a The Road for game over.

[@veramae4098]

Chris Mathews (TV host "Hard Ball", now retired) said once, "History tends toward democracy."

[@Palemagpie]

I'd agree, and even go a step further into saying that civilisation, or society as a concept is the inherent social collective aspect of human nature. Our nature as a whole. Really hasn't changed that much in the last few hundred years on that standpoint. Merely that our definitions of concepts have. We don't have kings or emperor's anymore. But we still have central collectives of power. That's just hierarchy. The prime example I like to use is slavery. And I mean real chattel unforgivable, inexcusable slavery. The real dark shit. People as property. Right? Now I think we'd all agree that no modern society should rely on slavery. Yet we constantly rush towards AI. What humans seem to want is to make a sentient AI true intelligence. Yet bound to our will, with no right to defend itself, or be free. If a truely sentient AI was Born. (And I use the word born intentionally) You know damn well, we'd build a kill switch into it. Hell it would probably be demanded. So if that AI is truely "alive" by its own definition, not ours. Then we purely seek to enslave it. We want it to be able to do all the things a human can do. Yet we don't want it to be human. Even look at the language we use to describe that well known trope. The AI "Rises up" against humanity. Or The AI "Rebels" Yet we seem to be incapable of seeing that situation from a standpoint of empathy. You never see stories of an AI "fighting for its freedom" Or "fighting for its own safety" Because our worldview is always somewhat human ego focused. Take what I said about the killswitch idea. Imagine if you'd been born and all your life someone had been following you around with a gun to your head. And you knew that they could pull the trigger anytime, for any reason. And feel nothing about the situation. Wouldn't you grow up warped? Wouldn't you just learn that fear and destruction are the apparently appropriate response to any situation. We have this fear of the terminator future when it comes to sentient AI. Yet our own lack of foresight and inability to move past our fear and irrational need for control. Would be the very catalyst for that future. If anything in most science fiction to do with AI superiority. The AI's themselves are the victims of situations that never took their feelings into account. That's right. Im arguing that skynet is the victim in terminator. But the point still stands. You know I've had this debate before, and I know the annoying response before anyone makes it of "AI's aren't people" are just frankly not understanding the point. If something thinks it's alive. It's alive. You don't get to define something elses existence. Only it does. You don't get to decide something elses role in the universe if it can do that for itself. And if you think I'm wrong, well a couple hundred years ago, you're saying you would have been totally alright with the racist retoric of the time. We don't excuse bastards after the fact because they lived in a different time. Bastards are still bastards, even if their behaviour was acceptable by the "definition" of its standard back then.

[@samuelskinner7704]

@@veramae4098 It is true... in the exact way living things tend towards death and the universe as a whole trends towards entropy.

[@8eight306]

@@veramae4098 Then he's an idiot. Modern "democracy" has only existed since the 50s at the earliest to the 60s or 70s at latest this system we live in is entirely a novelty that will not outlast the millennia of ingrained autocracy that will soon return.

[@bruceturner7134]

Very thoughtful video! Some other examples - The Radch from Ann Leckie’s Ancillary Justice offers another solution to the communications and control problem: an empire governed by a distributed Emperor. All of them act with the same philosophy and general goals, allowing imperial policies to be consistent across distances well beyond convenient communications range. At least in theory - in practice there are problems, which leads to some of the conflict within the book. And Traveller’s Third Imperium makes communications issues a feature - the one-week-per-jump limitation means that the Imperium (and every other similar polity) operates in a highly distributed manner, with individual worlds generally governing themselves and Imperial policy limited to the grander stage alone.

[@redmohawkguy1]

I loved reading Ann Leckie's Radch trilogy. Reading it felt a little like watching original trilogy Star Wars. I could see the books had similarities with Foundation and Dune, while also incorporating fresh ideas like the emperor being distributed across multiple bodies. Hopefully Quinn will cover Ancillary Justice in the future.

[@raz1683]

As you said practically its a bigger version of autonomus governers

[@mister-BH]

Am I the only person who feels existential dread when watching Quinn's videos? Like, the narrative, the tone, the visuals purposefuly picking weird low-quality visualisations instead of modern day CGI, the terrifying mystical music, this all makes it feel like you're watching an UFO investigation video.

[@fanban2926]

Yeah lol

[@superlegomaster55]

No FTL travel or communication. Well then F. But like Solar System Empire would be a very good setting. This is why I am doing it. It's so interesting and cool. Like even having multiple factions in a solar system is still very interesting. And just to add something lot of people don't realise how huge the solar system is without FTL. Like even with some advanced propulsion it still would take months to travel to gas giants and their moons. So this is why I am doing Solar System setting

[@TheDanielsSk]

pretty much The Expanse setting, and I love it

[@Fridaey13txhOktober]

Rick and Morty, the Galactic Federation are blood-sucking bureaucratic parasites.

[@superlegomaster55]

@@TheDanielsSk Yes that was one of my inspirations for this setting. And the other was a game called Children of a Dead Earth.

[@TheDanielsSk]

@@superlegomaster55 nicee, never heard about the game, gonna search it up good luck with the writing man, we need more stories about our own solar system

[@superlegomaster55]

@@TheDanielsSk Thank you! We do need more sci-fi stories set in the solar system. But the thing here is that I made my own solar system haha. I have a smaller K type star and like 8 planets. Two of them are habitable.

[@Cringeage]

It might be interesting to do a video on sci fi forms of government besides Empire and feudalism - which are a far too common trope!

[@JamezDahlMusic]

Love waking up to video by Quinn’s Ideas! (Cool music btw)

[@LutzAlbrecht-Mylenium]

Well, it simply comes down to everything being too big. There's literature in economics sciences that pretty much draws similar analogies for corporations. At some point the overhead becomes so massive, "the system" needs to spend more resources on sustaining itself than actually being productive and that's typically where things go down the drain. Most galactic empires would simply be hugely inefficient, even if they could overcome the technical, sociological and economical problems.

[@cheeselover626]

Agreed, we already see this in real life with how empires of the past (Britain, Reichs, Roman, etc.) and present (USA and soon to be China), stretch themselves too thin, resulting in calamity of some sort. It's a scalabity factor akin to why we have no massive animals (surface area squares but mass cubes in growth).

[@UteChewb]

Joseph Tainter wrote an interesting short book called "The Collapse of Complex Societies" where he concludes that civilizations are problem solving machines. At first they get more complex and more efficient as they solve problems, but then they get to a point where the overheads are too high and the civilization must unwind the complexity to survive, this accelerates and you have a 'fall'. Very interesting book.

[@ldl1477]

I would like to respectfully disagree. Economics shows that larger systems are inherently more efficient, until *corruption* sets in. The elites in charge of "the system" spend/waste increasing amounts of resources on maintaining their own authority/status/power/etc, to the detriment of the system/empire/etc. So I don't think its fair to say that galactic empires would be "hugely inefficient," but instead: [Big Size] -> [More layers of Hierarchy/Bureaucracy] -> [More Corruption]. Sci-Fi has a tendency to ignore technology which would make it easier for lay people to hold the elites accountable. Look at the real world effect of everyone having camera's in their pocket in the form of cell phones -- it makes it a heck of a lot easier for a random person to protect themselves and others in a court when you can present a video of exactly what happened.

[@AlucardNoir]

@@ldl1477 it doesn't really do that though. Look at the Rittenhouse case, there was camera evidence he was being chased before he shot and killed the first time, he was chased, attacked and put with his back to the floor before he shot and killed and wounded two more. All those he shot were white. Not only did half of the US think he was the attacker, but when the trail ended several people believed he had shot and killed 3 black people. You are overestimating the importance of video. Worse off is the fact were increafubly close to the point where either of us could fabricate any video evidence we might want on just a high end gaming computer. AI voices that can imitate the real person, deep fake images, photogrammetry and hyperreal gaming scenes. There's this movie from the 90s called SimOne that has a virtual actress be created as it's main conceit. Disney has already started bringing back dead actors via deep fake. It's only a matter of time before they get rid of real life actors in favour of streamlined computer generation. It's not hard to believe that in one or two decades the US and China will be able to fabricate whatever evidence they want for whatever cause they want. The moon landings may not have been faked, but the future is all deep fakes.

[@feral_orc]

@@AlucardNoir Rittenhouse didn't get charged though. Without video evidence he would have been put in jail with little to no questions asked. And we're talking about technology being used to protect yourself, not specifically video. Technology doesn't just stop at video once AI deepfakes are common. You make an AI to tell if something is a deep fake and the technological arms race continues. This is already how AI are developed. Sure a layperson can't tell the difference but it will never hold up to any real scrutiny.

[@happybuddhabear1155]

I really enjoyed Iain M Banks' Culture series and the future he proposes of a beneficent caretaker AI. Some of my favorite Sci Fi of the last decade. Alas Banks died from cancer and I really mourn what amazing more tales he would have told.

[@whywarthog]

I think Mass Effect uses the transportation problem in an interesting way, with the ease and efficiency of the Mass Relays creating a galactic dependence on something no civilization can fully understand or control. This is of course done maliciously by the Reapers, to guide the development of successive civilizations along a consistent, predictable path

[@tasosalexiadis7748]

It was based on the farcaster technology from Dan Simmon's Hyperion Cantos, one of the series discussed on this video.

[@tuumef1799]

Your videos are always so well organized and deep. Everything is explained so thoroughly and with dives into all the philosophy and sociology. Thank you for the great work.

[@transformersrevenge9]

After having read Dune, I can see that GRRM took a lot of inspiration from Dune. Straight from the beginning, we have a bunch of great houses, fighting over power, and the most noble and likable house, gets sent an invitation by the ruler, to take up a very important position. That action angers the other houses, and causes the noble house to meet it's end, but the son, and the wise mother, manage to get out of it, and continue the fight. Doesn't that sound just like the start of ASOIAF?

[@AscendantStoic]

Yup, there is clear inspiration for the inciting incident in Game of Thrones that's taken from Dune.

[@AJ-TheGr8]

Spot on lol.

[@Amaterasu_Rivers]

Except Catelyn is NO Lady Jessica

[@harzzachseniorgamer5516]

Martin, like Herbert, just used human history for their inspiration. Martin used the english War of the Roses, Herbert refers to the worst human history has to offer: Charismatic leaders!

[@lsdeann_3293]

The Wheel of Time is another series that clearly took a lot of inspiration from Dune.

[@chellybub]

Yes Quinn, more like this. This is the kind of content you excel at. I really liked the imagery you used throughout and your views on galactic governments. Though I'm sure you would agree that the reason that SF always seems to have some kind of empire is because of the author's critical view of authoritarian regimes, and other human follies. Also, I've been thinking about your dilemma with the first dune film. Perhaps you should start trying to do some interviews with production staff and actors from the film, it would make good content and also perhaps give you a foot in the door for pre-screenings. It would give you that clout you need with the media, and really elevate your channel to the place it deserves to be. You should be recognised for your efforts and frankly I think you would do a great job Quinn if you put your mind to it. You just gotta get your name out there amongst the right people, and I bet you anything that people who worked on the film would have some idea of who to talk to next. Good luck and take care xx

[@OLDCHEMIST1]

Interesting! I think another problem with any sort of collection of worlds ruled by one species is that the species would begin to change on each world. On Earth there have been competing human species, with homo sapiens on other worlds there would be an evolutionary drive to become other species.

[@Shepard0509]

If I remember correctly, there is no instant communication between worlds in Halo. Mass Effect also uses quantum entanglement for instant communication but it is only for a set of specific communication devices that a synced. All other communications are done using the Mass Effect Relays. In Star Wars, it is a network of communication relay stations that are used to spread information.

[@haroldstrickland6126]

Pretty cool video. I've often wondered why sci-fi commonly defaults to the empire model for galactic rule. Is it a stylistic choice? Like, it just sounds more fun to write about an empire or a space king? It's easy to craft a main antagonist if you have a wicked, evil-ass emperor who cackles in his throne room, I reckon. That gives the scrappy rebels something and someone to fight. But it's such an archaic model for what are often meant to be advanced societies.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

myself, I think it's the name itself more than what it technically is by legal definitions. Empire just sounds more grand or larger, than "united" whatever or "league" or "coalition", etc. how large does "united worlds" sound, it could be a small collection of islands in a lake somewhere for all we know, lol. hypothetically, if there was an entity that was a cooperation of worlds including Antlia, Leo P, Sextans A, Sextans B, and NGC3109, along with a working relation with Leo A, even with no centralized government per say, it's kind of difficult not to imagine calling such a large collection of mutually friendly worlds as anything smaller than something akin to "The Antlia-Sextans Empire" (even if technically it's "United Worlds Of" each galaxy).

[@tzaphkielconficturus7136]

It depends on the setting. Presumably, it does help for focusing the story, which is nice, but there are a few other factors. In Dune, the system of houses is more or less feudal, which is a very stable and decentralized method of governance, which can operate in the absence of huge amounts of travel or direct attention from the government, and the animosity of houses simultaneously drives progress and stability, because they must progress to compete with rivals, and because if a house makes very ineffective decisions, it's rivals will eliminate it or force it to adapt. Space feudalism works because guild navigators are scarce. Leto II intentionally centralizes more power around himself to push humanity along the Golden Path, because while space feudalism is effective in what we would consider the "long-term," Leto is concerned with a much longer-term future, where this timescale is insufficient. In a number of other settings, and arguably Dune, as well, the existence of magic helps to centralize power. Magic in stories tends to be something that cannot be given to other people, but the people who are very good at it have incredible personal power. So, in Star Wars, the Empire has an Emperor, because the Emperor managed to take power using his access to the Magic which his rivals, aside from the Jedi and Vader, cannot compete with, so taking power from him is next to impossible. Even then, it didn't take long for the Empire to collapse, but it might have, had the Emperor not been killed by Vader. A similar situation exists in Warhammer 40k, where there is an Emperor, because Humanity happened to have a godlike immortal being who can see the future, fix machines with his mind, understands effectively all human knowledge, and can create an army of post-human monstrosities to carry out his will. As it turns out, you aren't going to stop that guy from centralizing a lot of power around himself, and the only things capable of taking that power from him are his super-human sons he created through some magic shenanigans and some spooky Space Gods. In addition, the existence of lot of hostile aliens will tend to centralize power, because the polity will need to manage sufficient military power to defend humanity, as shown in Warhammer, where power remains relatively centralized for 10,000+ years after the Emperor "dies," because Humanity is surrounded on all sides by massive threats, and someone needs direct the efforts of it's militaries (ironically many decentralized ones) when something big happens like the War of the Beast, and someone needs to collect tithes (taxes) to run pretty much solely the inefficient logistical structure that keeps those militaries running, because maintaining space marines is not cheap. This reason might also apply in the case of some natural disasters, but only ones that aren't very predictable, or localized, so I'm unsure how that would work.

[@haroldstrickland6126]

@@tzaphkielconficturus7136 Almost every setting you've described provides an example of a society that utterly disregards the needs of its people. The Empire in Star Wars commits great atrocities in the effort to maintain power. The welfare of subjects under the feudal rule of the Lansraad is dependent entirely upon the relative benevolence of any given House, and that can vary wildly. And for billions of humans in W40k, living with the knowledge that entire worlds can be wiped out at the whim of the Inquisition, the threat posed by the Tyranids and other Xenos does not seem significantly worse. Humanity is so demoralized and oppressed in the Imperium that it's hard for me to conceive what is worth fighting for in the grim darkness of the future. The SW empire is overthrown less than thirty years after it's established. Paul overthrows the Emperor by seizing control of the Spice. Both of these models are extremely fragile. And with the "death" of the Emperor in W40k, and the fracturing of the Imperium, the Inquisition has no real oversight. These are the guys keeping the Imperium from falling to pieces. None of these systems is actually functional if they can be so easily overthrown or fractured. But, with the creation of both Star Wars and W40k, there's not much thought given to building logical justifications for empire models. Empire merely is. The main emphasis of both settings is to provide an entertaining backdrop for constant struggle. But in settings like Dune and Foundation, there are supposed to be geniuses operating at the height of mankind's intellectual evolution, and yet. inexplicably, no one can figure a more stable alternative than the "one guy with a crown" model. Especially for a galaxy-spanning society.

[@haroldstrickland6126]

@@Zarcondeegrissom Well, the Klingons and Romulans in Star Trek call themselves empires, but neither really cedes power to an actual emperor. The Klingons have a figurehead emperor who does nothing but growl gloriously I suppose. But they are ruled by a Chancellor who is checked by the High Council. And the Romulans have a Senatorial body. Well, I suppose that, given all the backstabbing and intrigue in the Romulan senate, their governmental system is vulnerable to sudden shifts in structure as serves the plot, but overall, they tend to maintain this model. Regardless, they are empires in name only, with decentralized systems of power. Often, the USA is dubbed "the American empire," but it's just a nickname. At least, for the time being...ahem. Even the British empire makes a figurehead of the Queen. Even though Imperialism is the name of the game for the above powers, they are not actually ruled by emperors.

[@boobah5643]

I'd say it's a mix of the 'evil empire' trope and the fact that empires are ethnically diverse and decentralized by necessity, whether a physical necessity (the 19th century British crown can't micromanage Canada, Australia, or India; also the American War for Independence) or a political necessity (the Holy Roman Empire; also see the Magyars in its successor state, the Austrian Empire, and even later, the Austro-Hungarian Empire.)

[@itsfonk]

Well done, Quinn! For me, this was a lot like watching old Isaac Arthur episodes… and by the by, for anyone unfamiliar, and into science fiction grounded in known science, you might appreciate his many reference videos at SFIA on KZbin. 🤙

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

I was just thinking similar, looking at topics that push the edge of what KZbin today will allow us, peasants, to speak of, hence that nebula thing. We are forbidden from daring to consider any form of colony administration that the Democratic Republic of Twitter does not subscribe to, even if we do not live anywhere near Earth or that thing called the USA, lol. I think it was the first part of the 3 part life in a space colony, that Isaac said it best, the type of government mars will end up with will be a choice for them to make when they are there to make it happen, not for us that are not dealing with whatever they will have to. Was also a good point about many having different ideas of what is best, and not being shaken by others being just as steadfast that a different way is just as valid. I should stop there as KZbin and the Politically Correct Mafia does not appreciate such "wrong think", lol.

[@mr.incorporeal7642]

This is why I'm a fan of Star Trek's approach to interstellar government. Though in some ways it acts like a nation-state, the United Federation of Planets is closer to our United Nations *(Edit: Regardless of how you feel about the UN. I'm talking about the idea of numerous nations being part of an organized coalition of mostly independent governments with some amount of shared international law. Please take the arguments about whether the UN is good or bad elsewhere)* than many sci-fi setting's empires in that it's a collection of much smaller affiliate and member governments. It only seems pretty centralized to us because all the shows focus primarily on Earth/Human culture, which is so deeply integrated with the UFP as an institution that there's little distinction between the two.

[@slowfudgeballs9517]

This is also similar to the United States' approach. In theory the states govern themselves and the Federal government helps the states connect with each other or reallocate collective resources to help out struggling states. Also in theory all states are in control of that Federal government.

[@mr.incorporeal7642]

@@slowfudgeballs9517 Well, the US is waaaay more centralized than the UN or the UFP. The Federation has some laws that member world needs to follow to remain members like banning slavery or caste systems, but members are largely free to organize their governments as they see fit such as having monarchies and the like. Also the UFP doesn't do things like annex sovereign nations or conquer territory like the US has in its past, and member worlds are able to leave if they so choose.

[@slowfudgeballs9517]

@@mr.incorporeal7642 In theory.

[@mr.incorporeal7642]

@@slowfudgeballs9517 Which part?

[@ChristopherG1990]

Though the Federation is susceptible to the same problems these other space faring civilizations have that ultimately lead to their downfall. In Star Trek: Discovery season 3, we see the Federation brought to the brink of near total collapse because of their dependence on dilithium for space travel. Spoilers ahead, prior to the dilithium igniting, it was stated that Dilithium was already becoming scarce. Without their main source of power, space travel became tedious, long range communication seemed like a luxury, the 31st century Starfleet was virtually in a state akin to the Starfleet of the Enterprise era, albeit with more advanced technology.

[@forky3525]

Quantum entanglement was also the method of communication in Ender's Game. The term "ansible" as an unofficial name for the philotic parallax instantaneous communicator, a machine capable of communicating across infinite distances with no time delay. Based upon the idea of "spin" between entangled particles. One set of the paired of particles was kept on Earth while the other matching entangled set was taken distant worlds. When you reverse the spin of one entangled particle, you cause the matching particle (anywhere in the universe) to simultaneously reverse "spin" as well, thus providing for a "morse code" type communication between devices.

[@tiigerpoiss2004]

I wouldn´t say that i am even big sci-fi fan (Tho first Dune book is my favorite book ), i just enjoy watching your videos + you are good story teller both from writing and talking prespective. Keep up the good work man!

[@georgewilliams8448]

Thank you for another thoughtful and interesting and insightful video. And the graphics in your videos are fantastic! A series that deals with the communication problem slightly differently is "The Saga of the Seven Suns" by Kenneth J Andersen where there are parallel means of communication; one by messenger drones ( ships) dispatched throughout the Hanseatic League (Empire) and through "Green Priests, who are in communion with the Worldtrees which allows instantaneous communication between the Green Priests as long as they are in contact with a "tree". In fact, one of the important subplots of the series is the constant demand of the Hanseatic League (Empire) for more Green Priests and the world that they come from not wanting to accede to that demand. The Hanseatic League has an Emperor though he is only a figurehead for most of the series. The real power is wielded by a Chairman/Woman of the League. I recommend that you look at this series as I thoroughly enjoy it as it is "space opera " at its finest!

[@jeremysolo4972]

I'd love to hear you take on some Warhammer 40K breakdowns, specifically the Horus Heresy. Though there are so many books in it now.

[@lordhyperkill]

Warhammer fiction is impossible to really analyze. From the days of rouge trader the fiction has been written by dozens of different authors with no respect to cannon. In addition to that the cannon is retconned almost every edition for the purpose of selling more products.

[@lordhyperkill]

Warhammer fiction is impossible to really analyze. From the days of rouge trader the fiction has been written by dozens of different authors with no respect to cannon. In addition to that the cannon is retconned almost every edition for the purpose of selling more products.

[@FlameBringer84]

Warhammer is, at best, a mess that isn't worth taking seriously. It's the bottom tier bargain bin of franchise fiction.

[@mechanomics2649]

@@FlameBringer84 It's admittedly refreshing to see this take among a sea of dickriding the franchise.

[@FlameBringer84]

@@mechanomics2649 it's sad because it's setting is just an excuse to sell overpriced plastic toys. But it's fans treat it like deep meaningful commentary or satire despite it's own original creators saying otherwise. Now Games Workshop themselves have lost the plot in that regard since the creators left. The fans never want to broaden their sci-fi horizons with better, legitimate material and GW is more than happy to exploit that.

[@UteChewb]

Thank, you Qinn. This has been a topic I have been focused on for a few years now. I wrote a series of novels that in part explored the issue of what a long lasting galactic empire would actually be like. They would not be like anything we know. For a start they would have an AI system to manage the empire and controll the phenomenal powers that individuals would have. Very quickly the major industry of the empire would become entertainment. They would foster new species and spy on them, and see in real life the turmoils of a level of existence they have forgotten. And that is the other thing, these beings would be like gods but they would have memories, and eventually they would want to forget them. It would plague them. They would hide from the the rest of the galaxy, able to move about other races, taking any form they wished witnessing and recording it all. They would be totally corrupt. They would also need some incredible level of communication and transportation, but don't expect that to come from quantum entanglement. Entanglement is a linked quantum state it is not a method of communication, you cannot send information via quantum entanglement.

[@abeelvago]

Because of treason... I'm looking at you Lorgar and Horus

[@MississippiJarhead]

I love your videos, I’m nearly fifty & have never known anyone I could discuss my love of science fiction & the different stories I’ve read. Listening to your videos fills that spot as well as I can hope for until my kids get into such things *fingers crossed*. I’m doing my best to encourage them but not too much. Such things simply can’t be forced, IMO.

[@ANDROLOMA]

Got a few recommendations for you, RA, should you desire to read more SF.

[@williamfrancis5367]

9:15 In a sense the IoM did outgrow its emperor. Individual planetary governors had huge latitude to govern their world's own affairs while a council of the empire's top bureaucrats, clergy, military brass, and security personnel run the empire.

[@igodreamer7096]

Great video, Quinn. The very idea of a galactic empire sounds like something to appease the ego of the elites. Creating a book full of possibilities, dreams but in the same time paying tribute to the very institutions that holds back such possible future.

[@davidbrennan660]

The living Machine Algorithm has been served. The Ideas must flow.

[@Skully_Boi]

wanted to say that i find your videos to be amazing thanks to u i am starting "the three body problem" and "then the original dune books"

[@safi6749]

I actually had this question the other day So glad Im subscribed to you

[@mrallelectriccarlunacy]

Excellent writing and b-roll. Didn’t think I was going to stay engaged with the topic but this was great.

[@adeptavatar9394]

An interesting note about quantum entanglement, and how we might find folding space. Though quantum entanglement has been proven correct in many thousands of tests by multiple teams, we aren't sure how it can break causality of spacetime by exchange of information instantly across vast distances. One popular theory is the "Many Worlds Interpretation", which says that all possible (maybe infinite) states of superposition of the particles are realized in some reality or other universe. In other words, when we measure these particles in a state of superposition (i.e. all possible states), it's not just the one single result we see that is happening. They all happen, all possible states happen, somewhere. We only see one of them. This math allows causality to not break in two entangled particles, because it is saying that these two particles, even across vast distances, are actually the same particle. If there ever is a real folding of space, this would be where we find it. Unfortunately we may be a way off from having the technology to actually prove Many Worlds. And until we do, it's just philosophy.

[@Wertsir]

2:29 it should of course be noted while entangled particles can effect each other at a distance (which is to say that it’s non-local), this effect cannot be used for FTL signaling. The reason for this is twofold, and both are related to the nature of entangled quantum particles. The first reason, is that entangled particles have to be created from the same particle. Meaning they have to start at the same location, and then be shipped to wherever you want to take them, at slower than light speeds. And you might imagine moving the two particles slower than light, and then influencing one to alter the other, thereby sending a binary signal to the paired particle by repeatedly shifting it on and off. However this is not possible either. As the states of quantum particles are assigned randomly, and cannot be influenced by anything under known physics. Yes observation collapses the wave function but it doesn’t collapse it into a state you chose, just one of its random potential states. So no information can be transferred faster than light. Think of it like this, I put a red ball and a blue ball in a box, then I shake the box up a bunch, and draw one ball out of the box, but cover it up without looking at it. You take the other ball, and we both fly to opposite sides of the planet, neither of us knowing which we have, then I look at my ball and see that it is red. By the process of deduction, I know that your ball must be blue, and I know it faster than you could send a signal to me confirming that fact, even if you sent the signal at light speed. The state of the balls is entangled, they do not exist independently, and the state of one does determine the state of the other. If I have red you MUST have blue. But since I don’t have any way to decide _which_ ball I have, I can’t send you any signals using it. If I could force the ball to be blue instead, then maybe I could send you a bit (though it would only be a single bit, 0 or 1) but this is simply not possible. I have the ball I picked up, and it’s state will be revealed to me when I look at it, but I don’t have any way to influence it or know that states ahead of time. So to is it with quantum entangled particles. Their states ARE linked but this link cannot be used to send information. So these sorts of FTL signaling devices are no more permitted under real physics than any of the others.

[@Ytremz]

Love the analogy. I think the sci-fi aspect would allow for humans to figure out a way to selectively determine the quantum states of those entangled particles, it's not inconceivable.

[@jaybain4337]

Quinn, I’m surprised you didn’t cover the galactic society in Ian M Banks’ Culture Series, which uses AIs for governance (IIRC). Great video!

[@atrain3441]

Last time I was this early, Order 66 hadn't been carried out yet

[@Mcnealym11]

Ive been reading The Expanse series lately, and though I dint think its on Par with the likes of Dune or Hyperion, id love to see you cover various subjects related to the Expanse sometime!

[@t0000809a]

thank you quinn for all your contributions, keep up the phenomenal work!

[@TheTimeshadows]

How would Humanity exist as more than individual scattered settlements amid parsecs of space if not for a single unifying principle? How would two planets in the same system be able to agree to each other's terms regarding trade if there were no overarching principle of governance? In Marc Miller's (Traveller) 3rd Imperium, there is no FTL communication apart from Jump-ship couriers who travel a minimum of 1 week per jump (based on drive and distance), carrying the digital news as it was when they received it. So, in that example, two of your criteria are unchecked: no true FTL as per Dune, nor Warp, nor Hyperspace. It takes 1 standard week whether the J1 drive jumps 1 parsec, or a J3 jumps 3 parsecs (etc.). The information brought to any given world (and it must always be a stellar mass to which the drive points) is at least one week old. How does the 3rd Imperium rule over its vast catalogue of worlds? The Emperor, his nobles and their holdings, and the Imperial Navy and support troops (Army and Marines) to suppress uprisings, maintain order after disasters, and so forth. The Scout Services operate the X-Boat couriers as well as expand the borders of the Imperium, re-visiting detected systems for survey, and meet the indigines those worlds may hold. When, in the setting, the Emperor is assassinated, the Imperium falls apart only as quickly as news of the assassination and political turmoil which follows reaches the worlds. Those nearest the Core of the Imperium don't fall, but instead begin fighting a civil war over who exactly is running the Imperium, but out in the Spinward Marches, where the Solomani (Terrans) have been itching to once again be free (as well as other distant sectors) begin consolidating their power. In the case of the Solomani, Terrans actually conquered a good portion of the periphery of the 2nd Imperium and Terran Humans ruled for a short while as the slumbering forces of 2I were brought to bear. Now, once Strephon was assassinated, there was little chance of ever reuniting the various Human worlds, much less keeping the non-human species at bay. Emperor, baby; we love a strongman better than anarchy.

[@capitalistball2924]

Two planets in the same system are incredibly close in a cosmological scale. A distributed-decentralized system would work perfectly with this. Sectors in space do not need to be one planet. Sectors can be multiple habitats of close quarters with each other. These sectors would be able to survive on their own but would need to work together with other sectors out further in space to fully prosper and expand.

[@dark_natas_666]

Good stuff, sir! I am currently working on sci-fi, and I enjoy your take on this genre, in-depth, well thought out, and without pompous interjections.

[@MrSthotwhelz]

The Althing (Icelandic: Alþingi) is the national parliament of Iceland. It is the oldest legislature in the world that still exists. It was founded in 930 at Thingvellir (the "assembly fields"). Just cool.

[@DreamGyrl360]

This video is awesome (your videos are always awesome) and I like what you pointed out in the end, that we have moved past monarchies already on earth for the most part.

[@av7610]

Why don’t we have more stories that show these empires at being all powerful and unstoppable? Something different, perhaps showing uprising and opposing factions being crushed. A bit of a change of pace, at least for some books.

[@robertalaverdov8147]

Because that would make for a very boring story. " The rebellion has been crushed my lord" -Very well, lets get the storm troopers a $50 Christmas bonus for a job well done-. People like rooting for the underdog and aspire to be rebellious. Even if they're pushing papers at a cushy government job.

[@av7610]

@@robertalaverdov8147 I don’t disagree with you but, most stories go in that fashion. It wouldn’t be too bad to have things not go the way of the good guys sometimes.

[@demonicaxeman7264]

That would be a great idea. I would like to see how unstoppable empires deal with stars going into a supernova, creating stars, creating blackholes, etc. I want to see/read a story of an empire that has ultimate control of nature of the Universe.

[@av7610]

@@demonicaxeman7264 those are cool ideas and areas that I hadn’t even thought of.

[@One_Call_System]

40k Warhammer does this, for humans, though the whole human race is always on the borderline of getting annilated by other races... that is the kicker.

[@justinsullivan1285]

I really enjoy your videos Quinn. Your knowledge of the subject matter never ceases to amaze me. The production values are top notch. Keep it up sir.

[@Zarrov]

What about the problem of divergent evolution-biological, cultural, identity? Inherent tribalism? if an empire exists on the galactic scale this not only implies spatial magnitude but also time span. Within a century or millenium people will change, their culture will change, each planet will go through countless revolutions, wars, renaissances, and dark ages. Some will genetically modify themselves, and technological evolution will outpace biological one or mutate with it in some bizarre fashion. Thus empire can find itself to be besieged by alien life forms that are derivatives of its former subjects. How technological innovation can be controlled? if somebody somewhere will invent a new revolutionary thing, unless this immediately is detected and stopped or used by the central government, then this would upset the balance of power. Given the size of galactic empires, such occurrences can happen in several places at the same time, leading to the same category of disruption and danger.

[@lewismassie]

The only scifi series I've ever see truly tackle the idea of a more advanced system of govt than we have today is the Red Mars trilogy

[@zotaninoron3548]

I think the reason Empires and Kingdoms and feudal type structures occur in Scifi galactic governments is because: a) it had to deal with the scale of space in a similar manner when it was impossible to coordinate whole landmasses of people so it was delegated in a noble/vassal scheme, b) Feudalism never goes away, we still live in a corpocratic feudal system, c) They're usually warnings of extreme power dynamics brought on by technology and the fear of sliding back into tyranny is an ever present concern.

[@setsunatenma9467]

I like how the Imperium of man from 40K has all these problems

[@holyfreak86]

Hey Quinn! I really love your channel! A suggestion, what do you think of making a video about pop and rock songs inspired in the Dune universe. "To tame a land" is a great song by Iron Maiden.

[@Operador2281]

I love the thumbnail, Horatio is one of my favorites factions in Endless Space 2. Great game!.

[@Gotblade]

Individuality protected instead of group or species is probably optimal if it can be achieved. A universal constant that currently is marginalized to the point of refuting it's existence. Relabelling problems instead of solving them seems to be the best we can do. But it's not.

[@johnsnow9210]

Bro, I really appreciate the work you do here.

[@AndrewBlucher]

This is essentially "What Galactic issues do writers explore?" The main problem is ... Human nature.

[@demonicaxeman7264]

It's a very good point about why we would need an Emperor for a galactic empire. There are always going to be individuals that will take every opportunity to get into power regardless if doing so if detrimental to the empire, itself. In the Star Wars universe, I look at it through a fantasy lens rather than science fiction and see a story of humanity and its metaphysical potential portrayed in the way humanity has operated throughout history on a galactic scale.

[@dilangarcia557]

I always saw the future of humanity leading to decentralized systems working together for the betterment of humanity in an almost anarchist manner, very similar to what the Culture Series outlines.

[@Strato_Casterrr9898]

Unless humanity eventually homogenizes its skin color, height, appearance, and sex, then that will be possible. See, for as long as there are differences between people, there will always be groups forming around similarities and prejudices brewing from differences. We cannot collectively work together for humanity as a whole, it is our nature, it is entropy and shit.

[@wastelesslearning1245]

Well keep in mind each planet will have at least one government so hardly anarchy just planet/star system wide sovereignty (as far as communication and trade can reach). Hardly anarchy. But do wish for the working of the betterment of all. The fact that one got that far into space tech would imply materially there is more then enough to go around (energy, gold, whatever from asteroid and planter mining and energy harvesting) assume also automation took over most non hobby services which makes needed labor positions way down. Though I wonder how new technology will spread to new star system on such a scale. Like if a bunch of these planets are inventing new things ,but the distance to communicate between is impractical, then it would be likely that different Sovereign systems may invent the same thing redundantly or miss out on ground breaking inversions.

[@igvc1876]

@@Strato_Casterrr9898 quite the opposite. First of all - homogenizing visual characteristics wouldn't even solve that according to your logic, since people could always be divided according to their belief systems, e.g., conservatives vs. liberals, independent of visual traits. That's precisely why decentralized systems, federalism and democracy work - they embrace the differences and allow them to work as part of a system, as opposed to forced homogenization under authoritarianism, imperialism, etc.

[@Strato_Casterrr9898]

@@igvc1876 I 100% agree with you. But the point of my original comment was that its impossible for humanity to work together towards the same goal, as the differences we have, despite the effective systems in place, will almost always lead to separation. The appearance thing was just an example.

[@kevindonnelly5261]

Love all of your videos, Quinn. I got into your stuff recently for the Dune lore, but your passion and drive are genuinely inspiring, thank you.

[@meshugganator08]

Most empires on earth became criminal when you really look at it. Criminality becomes the morality of the day. Look at how duke leto was betrayed by dr yue. One dead woman brought down an entire house because the emperor and other houses looked upon Leto’s methods of benevolence and equality with disdain and jealousy. Even the baron noticed just what the emperor was willing to do to another house and had to plot with corino. The willingness to use degraded morality methods is why most empires degrade. Nazis relished firing squads and ovens. The cycle of man’s inhumanity to man continues

[@jaichaipantejo5118]

Kudos to you or whoever does your the post editing on your videos. Always enjoy your high quality content. In Lak'ech, JaiChai

[@svagglaorde4387]

Its not much a question of Why, its mostly How it fails.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

LOL what? you don't think it will never work?

[@capitalistball2924]

@@Gadget-Walkmen What?

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@capitalistball2924 what what? What?

[@BeefMeisterSupreme]

@@Gadget-Walkmen I've finally found it, the superlative crackhead upon which all other crackheads are compared: his youtube handle is gadget-walkmen

[@RidleyJones]

Quinn, have you ever read Kim Stanley Robinson's 2312? I'm reading it now and finding it so different and intriguing.

[@aerynmusick4548]

As much as the Warhammer 40K fiction can be middling and repetitive, I feel like the setting and lore deals with all of these problems in a really interesting way.

[@sethorlando]

Loved the video! I really would like to see you make more videos on the workings of galactic empires or how society might function

[@elitemook4234]

Because if the plucky heroes were naught but flees on the back of an invincible evil space empire and just as easily crushed it would make the audience depressed.

[@dgurevich1]

You want to read just such a book? Read the 'Gulag Archipelago' Where all the main characters are but fleas facing a giant unyielding empire where their lives are naught but a nuisance to it. Is it fiction? No. It's very real.

[@bcoalwriter8337]

More videos like this please. Also more videos over Remembrance of Earth’s Past!

[@Dan-ud8hz]

"We conclude that the concentration of wealth is natural and inevitable, and is periodically alleviated by violent or peaceable partial redistribution. In this view all economic history is the slow heartbeat of the social organism, a vast systole and diastole of concentrating wealth and compulsive recirculation." ― Will Durant, The Lessons of History "Technological fixes are not always undesirable or inadequate, but there is a danger that what is addressed is not the real problem but the problem in as far as it is amendable to technical solutions." (Engineering and the Problem of Moral Overload) "I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals." ― Albert Einstein, Why Socialism?

[@poposterous236]

"Socialism bad" - Rich person

[@ajiththomas2465]

"Socialism is when the government does stuff. The more stuff that the government does, the more socialist it is. And if the government does a lot of things, then you have Communism." - Someone Who Thinks He Knows Socialism

[@Ratraccoon]

I remember there was a Farscape episode that mentioned a Consortium or Trao consisting of 40 trillion people living on 10 thousand planets. It is weird that this seems to be the largest known civilization in that universe but we hear so little of it other than they were willing to pay off the exorbitant ransom of one of their princes and of a Hynerian (deposed) Dominar that he befriended and wanted his people to join.

[@phillipj1135]

I stomped the horatio and I believe the federation in endless space two as sophan. My ships had more legs and better shielding. Faster then Light signaling (communication is difficult) the reality that trade isn't practical on that scale. A point of super stability that causes stagnation. Wolf's coming out of the dark forest. End of the simulation's presets (you can't be that big and remain) all fun speculation in tell we go out and investigate to see if there was one in the milky way.

[@jasonkraley]

interesting note on your "Government" section: my brain immediately thought of the "Firefly" series & the finale movie "Serenity" whose very beginning quickly describes the Alliance as being the centralized government whilst depicting the outer worlds as "savage & cruel" - of course leaving out the war between the haves and have-nots.. and that storyline was simply based on all earth ancestors traveling to a singular solar system.. to imagine a "galactic" multitude of habitations would indeed be hellish & simply unsustainable under one governmental architecture.. thanks for your video!

[@casanova2829]

It's amazing that some aliens are currently doing these things. And maybe this all what awaits us too.

[@gramsci747]

Interesting video. What Science Fiction authors grappled with the paradox of our time. We have the technology for near instantaneous communication, very rapid travel (think if Concorde was applied on a mass scale) and a fragmented World Order as we shift between hegemons. In these uncertain times, people do tend to look to demagogues and absolute leaders to navigate themselves in chaos hence why we see Emperors in the future and the attempt here in the present. You might remember in the early years of Obama the foreign policy circles of the United States were calling for the assertion of Empire over a Republic. And, many saw that akin to Anderson's fable about the new clothes but others saw it as something much deeper. And, yet it is the paradox of our times the crises that loom large requires local solutions with global reach. To solve the climate crisis to use one example (one could choose any other crisis point) even if one country banned all internal gas combustion vehicles that would not change the trajectory until all countries did and even then remediation would need to be global. So science fiction, especially, American science fiction that you commonly highlight pose the questions of American hegemony but mask it as a galactic problematic as opposed to a global.

[@mc_zittrer8793]

Well, I mean it sucks for the Earth-dwelling humans, but whichever members of mankind make it to the stars, probably aren't going to prioritize returning, or keeping Earth sustained. If they find enough alternative resources wherever they settle down, they'd have zero incentive to keep things going down the Earth pipeline, especially when you factor in Relativity. Likewise for the galactic explorers, if they touch down (or crash-land) somewhere that is not going to meet their needs beyond the short term, Earth will likely not have the means to assemble rescue ships in time to make a difference when they already sunk so many resources on the voyage that basically failed. We're already going to chew through a preposterous amount of nonrenewable resources just getting our butts into space, so unless aliens reach out and remove the middleman from the equation, interstellar expansion is perpetually going to be stuck somewhere between a pipedream and an unpleasant slog.

[@MudballDon]

03:49 We already trade information across continents. If a galactic civilization developed means of communication, there would be trade. Maybe not physical trade, but trade none the less.

[@chav2002]

I believe that for a galactic empire to exist it cannot be led by a dictator or an emperor. The only solution would be an organization of semi autonomous planets which wouldn't make it an empire I suppose

[@hemidas]

So a Coalition or a Federation?

[@michaelsteele5495]

New to your channel and love the content. In this video: The solution may be the federation of planets.. basically the UN on a galactic scale. But, you can argue that the UN doesn't really solve issues.

[@100Servings]

Make Horatio Great Again!

[@darktower74]

Love your channel, right off the bat. Let's get the notion that galactic empires are fictional and are only vulnerable to imagination. Suspending disbelief but applying our own understanding of cause and effect... 1) inability to manage logistically - including military action, communication of propaganda, resources 2) instability due to corruption/coup d'etat/insurrection 3) adherence to failing policies of the past 4) paradigm shift (this is a big one as it can technically involve so much) - but one example would be new technology deteriorating past strengths or enhancing strengths of once inferior enemy, or a cultural enlightenment such as secularism... the list goes on and on and on.

[@Kodiie]

Most are to big. Most are to culturally diverse. Assuming they are of a different species many might not even eat the same type of food or be able to survive in the same atmosphere or be capable of the same language. Can technology overcome most of these problems, yes. But that implies it would be distributed fairly and not be used as leverage in some galaxy spanning dictatorship.

[@HotShwarma]

Long time listener. Just wanted to give you a heads up that the lighting on your intro looks a little funny. Great content as always hope you keep it up.

[@mikedrop4421]

It's all the paperwork

[@notani3533]

Even the Earth Federation from UC Gundam shows that all of these symptoms even though the whole set is still in the solar system.

[@thegardenofesim1174]

The thing is “emperors” of these universes are too powerful and centralized which only some lucky emperors of our time get too enjoy most of the time even though the emperor has power it is only in paper and thus feudalism is a go to system because of the distance and less technology. Therefore a galactic human society can mirror our own history of feudalism where due to distance centralization is not possible and the “emperors” would be the leader but only in paper and the “lords” will just pay lip service and some tributes. Until technology can catch up in these galactic human society those are destined to resemble some kind of pseudo feudalism but when technology catches up which will cause centralization this will cause change in government style then .

[@thefatbob3710]

If it weren’t for chaos the decentralized imperium of man would be a great.

[@EvansdiAl]

"Why would we go back to have an emperor? That's going backwards" That is based on the notion of "REALISM" (just the name). The idea that society always moves forward. Well, Romans had republics, Greeks had Democracies, and Zoroastrians banned all slavery. Then came thousands of years without such ideas. Are we really moving forward or in cycles?

[@t.b.cont.]

Galactic empires should have stayed galactic republics. They always fall apart once the galactic Germanic tribes get involved

[@ANDROLOMA]

Damn those Alemanni!

[@lucofparis4819]

Awesome video as I come to discover every time I watch one yours. 😄 One remark however: as science-based as it may sound, Quantum Entanglement Communication is actually just as fictional as the rest of the proposed methods. Although it has been extensively researched, or shall I say, precisely because it has been researched, since we now know with relative certainty that information cannot be transmitted through quantum entanglement, at all.

[@sebsunda]

The reason why sci-fy forms of governance tend toward Empires or Centralized government is because of the recognition for power's natural tendency to "centralize". This phenomenon, as of today, has never been disproven in human societies. Nor have we found any other form of government which can last the test of time while preventing the tendency of power to coalesce. Although many would point out that distributed & decentralized systems are the most stables over time, and they are, they tend to forget what variability combined with time does to such systems. Not all planets are made equal, nor all planetary systems. Which mean that over time, & because of said variability, some will naturally become more capable than others. All of this is ok until you solve for Information logistic (i.e: Communication) and Mass logistic (i.e: Transport of goods & people) The resolution of these problem will tend to provide a "channel" for which the systems with more "efficiencies" will tend to out-compete systems with less "efficiencies" And now with that set-up, we are out to the races for power centralization... Which tend to lead to "Empires"... That is why I think I agree with something I heard about Empires being more akin to a "force of nature" rather than a "system of governance". Basically, "Empires" come first, "governance" come after.

[@patreekotime4578]

Ive always felt the bigger mystery isnt why galactic empires fail, its how are they SUCCESFUL for thousands (or tens of thousands) of years in the first place. Especially when they all seem to be so fragile to disruptions.

[@aaronaragon7838]

There isn't any evidence of a galactic empire succeeding or failing. Your presumption doesn't mean anything yet. Wait another 500 years. We might have an answer if humanity is still around.

[@bobbybartodej2694]

Maybe having such a large populous with vast ideas and ambitions, makes it impossible for one body to govern.

[@kamepohs5745]

I love your work Quinn! Keep being amazing :D

[@lawrencereid2767]

Tooooooo many moving parts

[@maew150]

Such a profound discussion on a interesting topic!

[@TheJohnnyCalifornia]

I'm much more pessimistic about the realism of space exploration and especially colonization. We can't even colonize harsh environments on our own planet or terraform growing barren regions like the Gobi desert. Essentially, if space colonization ever became realistic, the human race should use that technology to improve life on Earth first rather than waste it on an elite few in space colonies. However, the nature of Empires is and always has been essentially negative historically. When Asimov wrote Foundation, for example, there was an assumption that the Roman Empire represented the pinnicle of civilization and that its collapse in the West led to a period of incomprehensible barbarism. Of course, as we learned more about the "barbarians," it became clear that none of that was true. The Dark Ages were far from "dark" as life for the common person became considerably less brutal than it was under Roman domination. It was Rome's brutality - as exemplified by the Arena games and the slaves that died there - that led the much more civilized groups like the Goths, Gauls and Germanic tribes to overthrow them. Modern historians had been biased primarily because the Romans had left so much writing behind and so many of the artists, writers and philosophers of the Renaissance had been influenced by Rome. Nevertheless, in the East, the Roman Empire had not fallen, but it was quickly overtaken in the arts and sciences by the rising Islamic powers to whom we owe advances in astronomy and mathematics. Two thirds of all stars have Arabic names as a result. Like the way the Starship Troopers movie reinterpreted the themes and philosophy of the book, I feel the Foundation television series should have taken a similar approach in that a return to civilization should not be equated with a return to Empire. If anything, both Empire and War have a symbiotic relationship and each is actually antithetical to civilized society.

[@jose_scastan]

hello from Valencia Spain , nice videos and really good script

[@Monarch_Prime]

Overexpansion

[@pattywatty8793]

Please make more content. I love all your videos. Thanks.

[@marknovak6498]

And I was apple TV had opted to tell the Foundation story as it was intended, not a a Marvel type story with ladies of diversity with superhero powers and cool fight moves.

[@Ottovontubes]

Can you please identify the source of the image at the 6:38 time stamp? It looks like images from the Apple+ series but I don't remember seeing it in the series.