Is it the shoemaker's dilemma? Or, perhaps they are so used to real sound that reproduced sound doesn't interest them? And check out our newest KZbin channel / @octaverecordsanddsdst... Octave Records.
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@TheFixiesOfficial3 жыл бұрын
Answering as a musician and sound engineer: 1) Most musicians can not afford high and audio gear 2) We do not invest in high end audio to listen to music while we sit on the sofa. We invest into gear to MAKE music. This gear can be instruments, mics, studio monitors, computers, software, etc... 3) Recording studios do not record, monitor and mix through the kind of speakers that home stereo enthusiasts listen to music on. We want speakers that do not add the amount of color I generally hear on expensive "audiophile" gear. We need to create mixes that will sound good on anything, from earbuds, to car stereos, to lousy little bluetooth speakers, etc... And for that, speakers with flat response are better 4) A good pair of studio monitors cost less than "audiophile" gear. I do have the chance to listen to music through my neighbors hi-end system on occasion and it does sound great, but I would not want that kind of set-up in my studio. If someone gave me a stereo like that I would not turn it down, but if I had that kind of money to spend on audio gear it would go into my studio.
@koshimazakisound3 жыл бұрын
you hit the nail on the head!
@mikeiver3 жыл бұрын
Pretty much spot on. It is an expensive endeavor. There comes a point where there is very little return for such large expenditures. Lastly allot of "high end audio gear" is literally snake oil in a box. The really amusing thing about "high end" is the fact that allot of old consoles used common Op Amps in the gain and filter sections by the hand full. So the reality is that many much loved recordings that were raved about for their sound are the result of common off the shelf parts one would find in the common integrated amp or boom box. The best money spent on audio is the speakers. Flat, clear and extended sound from good design.. Not the gimmics A certain speaker maker you know the speakers of which I speak, use to sell bad boxes! I know more than a few musicians and all have basic kit to listen to. All but the most successful simply can't afford a good set of speakers, an amp, and a good preamp to play their sources thru. Frankly most modern sources render high end a waste. I do have a PS Audio 200Cx amp and a home made simple class A preamp to drive speakers but past this is simply a waste of money. And I have heard some of the very best speakers that were made
@Nightmoore3 жыл бұрын
So glad someone did the heavy lifting and explained this properly. Every single musician I know (who also records/produces their work) has nice monitors. The last thing any of us want is “High end audiophile gear” that adds low or high end hyped sound. We want the most neutral sound possible that is faithful to the original recording and mix. As far as I’m concerned, we’re the ones doing it right. I could never go back to regular speakers after getting used to a proper mixing environment.
@koshimazakisound3 жыл бұрын
@@Nightmoore exactly that. I just use my studio monitors to listen to music or headphones.
@el34glo593 жыл бұрын
He's talking about professional musicians. It's not about the money
@havvacuppa4 жыл бұрын
Pro musician here. No point spending money on high end audio when my tinnitus is this bad ;)
@martinbladelvan19493 жыл бұрын
No need for tweeters anymore
@LostJeffukulele3 жыл бұрын
Right?
@ezhamhamzah21453 жыл бұрын
especially drummer..
@rocredproduction3 жыл бұрын
I think You are spot on already with your first answer. High end audio do not typically excel giving a deeper insight into the musical aspects of music hence do not typically give a better experience in that respect. When focusing on audio reproduction quality it seem easy to improve some aspects of the reproduction that are less significant musically while actually laying musically significant shortcomings of the equipment more obvious ending up in a musically less satisfactory result. I find that all too often with high end audio.
@bintang_sakti3 жыл бұрын
I have severe tinnitus,it kinda suck
@alexandervyverman37463 жыл бұрын
As an audio engineer, the audiophile community feels very much like a scientist visiting a flat earth convention
@notmyname47143 жыл бұрын
amen. amen. amen.
@jgharding23 жыл бұрын
Precisely. I do care about what sounds true and pure, but I'm not willing to join a psuedo-religious cult who believe that copper cables "sound warm", and silver "sounds bright" when that's clearly based on their fucking colour.
@jaszynek76403 жыл бұрын
For me all this turntable madness is something i can`t understand. If you`ll look at the vinyl record under microscope, you will see that groove is very far from being smooth so it is NOT perfect analogue image of sound(apart from that most of the modern vinyl records are based on digital master). Digital sound is practical, eco-friendly and excellent quality that don`t decline over time.
@d4rkblu3863 жыл бұрын
100% agree. I feel strange in the sense that I see good audio as easily obtainable and there is really only improvement to be had. Now, I say good audio, not great audio lol. Great audio is hard
@drigrid3 жыл бұрын
You said it. Or a pharmacist at a homeopathy convention. What they're after just isn't there.
@beatmasterbossy3 жыл бұрын
If I'm gonna spend $10,000, it's gonna be on condenser mics, like a normal insane person.
@behemothokun3 жыл бұрын
That's the spirit. I spend a lot of money on guitar equipment (in the 5 figure range), and my most expensive pair of headphones was 150 bucks.
@beatmasterbossy3 жыл бұрын
@@behemothokun yeah, and for $150 you can get superb sound quality that rivals $5000 dollar stereo systems. Well worth it.
@TheBsavage3 жыл бұрын
Damn straight.
@sza-ry6yl3 жыл бұрын
Spend $10k on community service
@1ProShooter3 жыл бұрын
@@sza-ry6yl HA. right.
@alliedfroth4 жыл бұрын
Audiophiles listen to their equipment, musicians listen to the music.
@CockatooDude4 жыл бұрын
Nicer (not unreasonably expensive mind you, just nicer) audio gear enables you to listen to the music better though. You can hear more of it.
@mdjey24 жыл бұрын
This is why I don't like to call my self an audiophile. I just like the music.
@mnhay274 жыл бұрын
THIS. As a guitar player of 25 years with a popular music diploma, I see little value in obsessing over equipment. If the songs are good and the performance is good, it will be just as apparent on moderately priced gear as it will on the sort of ridiculously overpriced, cock substitute shit that so-called audiophiles swear by. I currently have a Pro-ject turntable plugged straight into some active speakers and that allows me to enjoy my records just fine.
@philc99404 жыл бұрын
My listening environment is a studio. IMO, top shelf studio gear is as good as it gets. And, I spent significantly less than the typical audiophile does when chasing performance numbers. Additionally, good studio gear allows the listener to adjust parameters to a finer degree. I personally think the listening environment has far more to do with good sound than how many dollars are spent on esoterica.
@robertarmstrong60154 жыл бұрын
Audiophiles become audiophiles because of their love for music and their desire to have electronic equipment reproduce it as close to a live rendition of same as is reasonably possible. There is no denying however that in pursuance of the hobby, like most other hobbies, one can become somewhat swept up with certain aspects of it and so yes, listening to how different types of equipment reproduces the music often plays a major part.
@wooster11734 жыл бұрын
Audiophiles love audio equipment. Musicians love music.
@gabriel_kyne3 жыл бұрын
this is the answer right here
@CompetentSalesUSA3 жыл бұрын
Exactly on point.
@nmonye013 жыл бұрын
You can be both...but they are 2 seperate interests.
@lanchanoinguyen29143 жыл бұрын
Sometimes an musician doesn't find that a song interesting as well as an normal person because he hears that chord progression everyday or he already knownledged about the harmonization that might impress audiences but it's just boring to an musician/artist.Musician always focus on the new things,new chord progression,new vibe and groove instead of enjoying music as normal people.Some gerne of music like electronic/funk/jazz...etc focus on the effects of the audio signal(synthesizing) instead of the true recreation of signals.
@donalexander3 жыл бұрын
@@kingflockthewarrior202 Heheh
@Swiatlocien3 жыл бұрын
In Poland we have a saying "Szewc w dziurawych butach chodzi" which translates into "A shoemaker walks in a leaky shoes". It seems that people have always separated their craft from their personal needs.
@PapaWheelie13 жыл бұрын
The only thing that is going to make my guitar amplifier sound better is practice. Not gold connectors
@stephenj85763 жыл бұрын
Yes...it's not the arrow, but the archer.
@behemothokun3 жыл бұрын
Gold helps with corrosion resistance, it has nothing to do with audio quality.
@user-vr3ly2vd8j3 жыл бұрын
Amen Brother!
@kebman3 жыл бұрын
@@behemothokun Yet HiFi idiots still sell gold jacks for their "audio quality." I wonder how many people buy that horse shit.
@mariomguy3 жыл бұрын
@@kebman Gold-plated connectors don't rust or oxidize the way standard connectors do, they conduct electricity better, and are typically more durable in construction. Better cables and connectors aren't always worth the price tag of Monster or Rocketfish, but there are real benefits to it.
@DavidRavenMoon3 жыл бұрын
As a musician for 52 years, and also a recording engineer, I’m interested in hearing all the instruments in a recording clearly. I expect my playback system to reproduce the source audio accurately. But I also have an ear trained in hearing things non musicians might not hear. I’m perfectly content listening to music on my iPhone through a nice pair of headphones, or even the Apple Earpods. The bass response is good, and the high end is crisp. I can hear what’s going on in the music. Is the audio quality perfect? No. But I’m listening to the music, not the audio gear. I do appreciate high quality systems though. I had a very nice one some years back. But more often than not I prefer listening on good headphones. It’s the same with food... I know the difference between a gourmet meal, and pizza. But I still enjoy both for what they are. And musical equipment like guitar amps aren’t hi-fi. They color the tone of the instrument. That’s why we fuss over it. And most musicians look at claims by some audiophiles, the people who buy $1,400 speaker cables, or $600 wooden knobs, with amusement. We know that stuff doesn’t matter. The studios that the music was recorded in didn’t use that stuff. It’s viewed as snake oil.
@RAILWAY_FILMS3 жыл бұрын
its a different mindset : producer vs consumer. we have to make sure the mix sounds good on crap.. which may actually limit what it "could" sound like on a perfect system a little but not by much.. but every recording ever has been made that way so now these "high end" systems are made to "hype" the frequencies we tend to roll off so the buick speakers don't fart
@Viznox3 жыл бұрын
Exactly this.
@lanchanoinguyen29143 жыл бұрын
in electronic,and lo-fi style the quality of the audio signal maybe relative.
@DavidRavenMoon3 жыл бұрын
@@lanchanoinguyen2914 The recording and the playback system are two different things. We can all appreciate music even on systems that aren’t the best.
@jorgeguberte3 жыл бұрын
$10 Philips earplugs. best earplugs i ever had, they're the only ones i buy. simple, effective, very satisfactory quality, cheap. that's all i need.
@masterofdrones72874 жыл бұрын
Ahh, the irony of upper middle-class, Audiophiles. Buying a speaker lead that costs more than the microphone the music was recorded on. Owning speakers 4 times as expensive as the ones the music was mixed on. Most audiophile gear only highlights problems of the original recording. What are they hoping to hear? Secret music only $80k can unlock?
@DodInTheSky3 жыл бұрын
My old mate is an audiophile and his favourite band was Burzum. A band that recorded vocals through a headphone speaker modified to be used as a microphone to sound as bad as possible.
@sandernightingale3 жыл бұрын
@@DodInTheSky lol.........I actually recorded black metal through my earphones ones. Me playing guitar, my buddy grunting in the mic. Granted, I was 14 and it sounded like crap. But we had loads of fun.
@mikematthews85733 жыл бұрын
Yeah I bought a Crown amp thinking it would sound good and my onkyo was a cheap low watt receiver and sounds better. China made Crown unit sucked so beware!🤑
@Seki093 жыл бұрын
@@DodInTheSky Audiophile listening to Burzum is the best thing I heard today :D
@woodworking38153 жыл бұрын
@@DodInTheSky Of course you need a high end audiophile system for Burzum. If you listen using a normal stereo system there is a chance the the distortion of your stereo and Burzum's noises cancel each other out and you can actually hear music. That would be a disaster.
@touchofdumb3 жыл бұрын
His answer was in his own question: “they are obsessed with finding the perfect sound of their instruments”. If you’re obsessed with something you’re not really looking at much else. I lived it.
@youtubesuresuckscock Жыл бұрын
The actual answer is that there's a lot of stumbling and bumbling to pump out some BS reply because the truth is that the whole industry is mostly a scam to sell junk electronics that really don't do anything special.
@g3cd3 жыл бұрын
A musician is someone who drives with $5000 gear in a $500 car to a $50 gig. So most just can't afford high end audio 😜
@samuelthorn4083 жыл бұрын
50 bucks if you're lucky. i'm happy if i get pizza
@leoalex20013 жыл бұрын
5000€ gear damn thats cheap
@christinearmington3 жыл бұрын
😆🤦♀️😆
@cartilagehead63263 жыл бұрын
you forgot the $50k in music school debt
@PetesCDVinylWorld4 жыл бұрын
As a musician myself, I have what I consider an ok receiver, speakers, turntable. I do appreciate vinyl and great sounding equipment. It's kind of ironic that you can buy the same amp that Eddie Van Halen uses for $2000, but audiophiles have $10k amps for each component. Sometimes these 150k systems are more money that the studio equipment an album was recorded on.
@obsprisma4 жыл бұрын
That is a very good point indeed. My sound system at home is decent but not over the top. Sometimes audiophiles spending more money to interlinks then the price a studio payed for a cable to connect a studio microphone. I get your point completely. Audio tech is a complete different and in my opinion a strange world where sound is more important then the music. Music must be the main goal. Not the audio sound.
@ilovecops62554 жыл бұрын
guitar centers has used Digitech RP pedals and they sound really good! Into a compressor and then into a USB autdio interfacer and then onto t Audacity and its easy to make a decent recording. $10k buys a Fractas Axe, New Hand wired plexi, lots of used yamaha Se, SC, SSE, acoustic and bass guitars. Raface DX, sENNHEISHER CONDERSE MICROHPNES, radial engineering di BOXES, ETC. thankes you and thum,bbes ups!
@IvicaMarusevic4 жыл бұрын
Well, I'm a musician myself. I didn't have money to purchase High-end equipment so I got into learning and after that, making my own stuff. I now have a system that's all DIY made and sounds (and looks) amazing. It took me only 25 years LOL
@ThinkingBetter4 жыл бұрын
Professionals in music and audio just aren’t as much into wasting money on pure snake oil gear, perhaps because we know it’s often nothing more than show-off snake oil. We can better agree on the value of a great speaker than on a US$1000 power cable.
@Starch1b2c3d4a4 жыл бұрын
Van halen used way more than that marshall head
@robertvanruyssevelt71594 жыл бұрын
A top session musician who has played on literally thousands of albums in his career was asked what he liked to listen to at home - and he said "I prefer working in my garden".
@rb0326823 жыл бұрын
That sounds similar to what Lee Sklar would say. I know a lot of pro musicians who feel the same. Most people who work a job 40 - 80 hours per week don't go home and do the same job at home in their free time. "Must a have a balance." ~ Mr. Miyagi
@ChrisHaas13 жыл бұрын
@@rb032682 I think everyone is different. I spend my days teaching high school music - concert and jazz band and, before Covid, spend many of my weekends gigging or recording live ensembles. I listen to music on the way to work, on the way home, when I get home, at night and so on. I never seem to tire of it, but everyone is different.
@rb0326823 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisHaas1 - I agree. I can't say I "tire" of music. Everyone is different and there are a lot of different musical situations. When I did nothing but play music for a living, 1971 - 1985, I couldn't afford good home stereo gear. I was more concerned about getting a better guitar or amp if I had any money to spend on musical things. No recorded audio can compete with a good live performance, so I had little motivation to make good speakers and a turntable a priority. It's great you are teaching HS concert and jazz band. 99% of the fulltime musicians I currently know have a spouse with a good day gig. lol
@rb0326823 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisHaas1 - I could have said that better with a little more weed.
@jimmatheson91253 жыл бұрын
I don't know about other musicians, but guitarists have their very own snake oil industry.
@iurigrang3 жыл бұрын
Yes I'm looking at you tonewood
@stanleysdad3 жыл бұрын
It’s got to be tone oil from hand wound pre CBS snakes though
@AdaptivePhenix3 жыл бұрын
You beat me to it 👍👍😁
@briansanchez98993 жыл бұрын
With a lot of distortion all the guitars sound the same to me
@hankd63123 жыл бұрын
VINTAGE TRANSISTORS
@tamer27antepli3 жыл бұрын
Im a musician and I want my audio as flat as possible in order to hear what I'm making
@banjominer96822 жыл бұрын
exactly...we dont want enhancements
@tamer27antepli2 жыл бұрын
@@banjominer9682 we want to make the music enhanced so that it sounds good on everything
@RUGBYmusic4 жыл бұрын
This is an easy answer. Musicians have no money. Hi fi is extremely expensive. End of story.
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
Instruments cost a lot. A musician is always going to prefer getting a new toy that they can play with rather than an audio system for sound reproduction. To them, playing instruments is the active part of music. Listening is inherently passive. If you were a sportsman, you'd rather play the game than sit on the bench and spectate.
@MINOMBRES0074 жыл бұрын
RUGBY music Hear Hear!!! 😩
@alphaniner37704 жыл бұрын
I must say that this video and the comments are awesome! - my thoughts, perhaps is also a factor that (generally) making music is in the art/culture corner, while building audio systems is (mostly) technical/beta. Ask a violin player about a toroidal transformer, ask a technician about Beethoven's symphony 7. These two fields rarely overlap in one person. Obviously in this world today an art career is almost a certain path into poverty (which I think is a shame) - while a technical career doesn't have this problem. Just some ideas.
@julianpartridge28024 жыл бұрын
As a Professional Musician I can second that. Most musicians can't afford high end gear. Also If you spend your day making music, you like quiet when you get home! and finally nothing can compare to sitting in the middle of a professional orchestra
@moktaabdul63104 жыл бұрын
No dumbass. They listen to uncolured sound, they listen to the truth and Audiophile Audiophile hi-fi don't provide that sound. People who work or listening to recording studio don't use Audiophile hifis. They want to hear the truth. Hifi speakers CD, they use are at 70+ khz beyond human hearing and bass low as 9hz down to 3khz. They use 5 way or 4 way speakers with super tweeter and mid_bass midrange tweeter bass, subBass and subwoofer.
@SillyMakesVids4 жыл бұрын
Musicians are like actors. If you deliver a great performance, it doesn't matter whether you watch it on a square TV or an IMAX screen, the quality of your work is not measured by image clarity, but by the emotional response you generate with your audience.
@andreasrehn74544 жыл бұрын
To me that is the point. Listen to great old records... you still get the idea of the great job done, even if the record is comoletely worn out. you can tell how charlie Parker must have sounded even though you only have scratchy records left. the medium in between just does not matter that much.
@janinapalmer83684 жыл бұрын
Exactly ... this is on par with what I was saying .
@mgsee4 жыл бұрын
In my experience a good audio system makes it much easier to get closer to the emotional content of a piece of music by revealing more detail about a vocalists performance and the specific sound of each instrument, as well as how they are being played. A more nuanced sound with greater detailed is especially beneficial when listening to unfamiliar performances and musical genres.
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
@@mgsee : Valid observation.
@davidcripps30114 жыл бұрын
Spot on
@heavymetalmixer913 жыл бұрын
As a mixing and mastering engineer, the music production process teaches (the hard way) that the most important things are the ones that make the biggest changes, and those are the first ones in this process: Lyrics, instruments, arrangements, compositions and ideas. Investing in these instead of the stereo reproduction systems, or even in expensive production gear, will result in a better song at the end. Also, musicians, producers and engineers know that most people are not audiophiles, so the music must connect to the people and send the message even through the crappiest listening devices on the planet. In the end, emotion is what matters the most.
@chingyun143 Жыл бұрын
totally agree
@Simon-oq6ds7 ай бұрын
Yes. You’re talking about the software part of the equation. For us audiophiles, it’s not only about that. It’s also about the hardware, as better hardware allows us to emotionally enjoy the music better.
@roelheijmans3 жыл бұрын
I’m a musician, but I invest in high end audio. I love to listen to music as much as I love to make it.
@daleboylen64272 жыл бұрын
Same here.
@tonepilot3 жыл бұрын
The older I get, the less I value pristine recordings and the more I value honest, realistic music. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to make you feel good.
@avsystem31422 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the fact that as people get older their hearing acuity declines. I laughed recently at Neil Young complaining about the quality of modern recordings. As an old rocker it is highly unlikely that he can hear any frequencies above about 9 KHz and probably after a lifetime of blowing out his eardrums with loud music much less than that.
@musician1971a4 жыл бұрын
I'm a musician. And I'm a sound engineer and producer. And I'm definitely not an audiophile. When I make music and when I mix music, I do that for ALL people, my music and my mix should sound good on every system, at least to some extend. We don't mix for high end systems, most of us at least. And what you mentioned, we mix for emotion, for impact. Many years ago I listened to a demo of a very expensive amp and speaker set and was blown away when they played a classical guitar piece and then a string ensemble piece. It was incredible! However, when someone put in a rock cd it was... it still sounded beautiful, clean. It wasn't rock anymore. Then someone put in a house cd and that was even worse. The bass drum just bounced and was deep, but it was missing every form of character. It was TOO clean. See where I'm going with this? This high end sound is not always the best for what you hear and some music actually sounds worse on a high end system than it does on a cheaper system. This may not be everybody's experience, some will totally disagree. But I want to ask, how many of you audiophiles have acoustically treated your room for audio, to give space to the sound waves? How many may actually have a 10000 dollar system sounding like a 200 dollar system because of standing waves, room resonance and lost bass because it can't "breathe"? Think hard. Cause these are the things we audio engineers care about. We have found that treating the room makes a thousand times more difference than a shielded cable or a 3000 dollar speaker. We actually truly care about sound, but in a very different and I think more scientific way.
@Lucas-qo5go2 жыл бұрын
Agreed. I have a pretty good hifi system but sometimes I'll throw the wall in my Panasonic portable cassette player and set it down next to me and just jam it all the way through.
@marcusbrsp Жыл бұрын
I agree, the room is the most important thing. It is also pretty cheap to fix unwanted reverbs and echoes.
@Simon-oq6ds7 ай бұрын
Your experience is due to the audiophile’s bias based on the types of music that they listen to. If you put together a system that makes acoustic instruments sound good because you only listen to classical, then that system probably does not sound good for rock or electronic music. This is why I think my system sounds ok with all music because I built it with a focus on making all kinds of music sound good.
@Paulkatz1233 жыл бұрын
As a mixing engineer that mixes high end audio.. the room is everything and high end audio people do not understand that at all
@domdraper32213 жыл бұрын
I have a small amount of acoustic treatment and I wonder what I ever did without it. It’s crazy.
@paulj98213 жыл бұрын
what are you talking about. Most proper audiophiles understand that no matter the price of the speaker, if the room isn't treasted correctly, you will not be able to hear nor experience the reproduction capabilities of said high end speaker.
@Paulkatz1233 жыл бұрын
@@paulj9821 haha yeah no. Just have a search on 1million dollar audio system. Or watch reviews of expensive systems.
@paulj98213 жыл бұрын
@@Paulkatz123 Why? Also what does publications have to do with the basic understanding that many audiophiles practice. Publications, marketing are all for the rich, ignorant masses. They do not authentically represent what a large number of us practice nor believe in. Just like the idiots who think buying a $400 analog cable will suddenly allow the audio reproduction to sound cleaner, and more transparent over a well engineered $50 cable.
@Paulkatz1233 жыл бұрын
@@paulj9821 I think you are saying what I am saying the masses of audiophiles are easily influenced by marketing
@DClairRobinson3 жыл бұрын
Simple: Diminishing returns makes anything less fun.
@zackbrumis78313 жыл бұрын
Very insightful.
@lancepage19143 жыл бұрын
Perfect answer IMO. $10 000 more over a pre-amp, power amp or speaker that is 1% better. Simply out of my price range.
@brucecurrie24934 жыл бұрын
I’m a serious, professional, classical musician, with 3 music degrees, who studied with several teachers of the highest caliber, and experience in many acclaimed music organizations over the past 50 years. Even though I consider myself to be an audiophile now, this was definitely not the case a few years ago. I realized that reproduced music never compared with the live music I was making with others. I would rather make music than spend a lot of money to listen to recorded versions. Also, as a clarinetist, if I had some money, I wanted to spend it on perhaps a new mouthpiece. Or maybe an A clarinet for orchestra, or (heavens!) maybe a bass clarinet. I have pianist friends who are playing on an old upright piano at home. They want to save for a grand piano. Then I have other friends who are string players, who would like to acquire a better ($$$) violin or cello. Audiophile interests have always seemed very expensive. What happened to me was that I had been on orchestra boards and the manager of a semi-professional ensemble. With a couple of these we lost the recording service that would record all live performances. Unable to quickly find a suitable replacement, I bought a small but good quality recording set-up with a DAT recorder so that I could do it myself. What started out with 2 microphones and small mixer, became 3 mics, then 8-10 mics, and eventually 35 microphones and the ability to record 24 channels simultaneously (not on a computer). As my interest in re-mixing and mastering grew, I was disappointed in my nearfield monitors, and relied on high quality headphones. When I finally decided I needed to use high quality full-range speakers for re-mixing/mastering and listening to recorded music, I fell into the grip of high end audio. I think if serious musicians realized they could actually put together a great sounding system for a very modest investment, I believe they would be more interested. I have another generalization on musicians vs audiophiles. If you ask 50 classical musicians to list their favorite recordings and ask 50 audiophiles the same thing, I think you will see a difference in how they choose. I think the musicians would select based on the musical interpretation and emotional involvement, not on the pure sonic quality of the recording. Although these qualities might be recognized, I think a lot of audiophiles would start the other way around, making some selections that musicians would shun. Again, I think musicians would rather create music than re-create music. However, I’m thoroughly enjoying both!
@cheesecakelasagna4 жыл бұрын
Your penultimate sentence pretty much summed it up nicely. Musicians are more artists than technicians.
@saxyrep13 жыл бұрын
I'm a jazz musician with an oddly similar background with my production gear, I've fallen in love with mixing and I fully agree with you.
@wellroundedsound24223 жыл бұрын
Beautifully summarized!!! Thank you!
@bighands693 жыл бұрын
People can be be a musician and a listener of sounds systems as well. My opinion is that most musicians have never actually heard a good system so they have no reference point.
@Chance-ry1hq3 жыл бұрын
You do sound like an over educated dweeb. 1000 words to say what most people say in a simple sentence. I think you should go back and get your 4th and 5th degrees. They will appreciate your nerdy wordy rhetoric.🥱. By the way I do agree with your second to last sentence. I didn’t read the rest of it.
@raven53474 жыл бұрын
Musician here. I’m starting my journey for the last few yrs. I will say most musicians are broke and can’t afford Ps audio. We would rather have a good amp and music gear!
@ilovecops62554 жыл бұрын
Hello mine frends! I cants affordsd ampes no more so when I get money I gets used dititechs or other pedela fromgutercenteres and use the amp simulutar in DFITECH RP 355 AND cabinte sim into udb autdoi interface, Distortone pedals dont soundes as nice as turbes ampes or FIGITICHES rp pedels. TANKEY YOUES AND THUMBBES USP!
@dandinhofer92404 жыл бұрын
You took the words right outta my mouth. 80% of musicians are usually hustling for a gig. They're not necessarily interested in providing uncle Paul a comfortable living when they're own needs of room, board and spousal support aren't met . He's such a charming man thinking PS Audio is a purveyor of alternate means to live music. Someone really should break him the news flash...
@lukecyrus3 жыл бұрын
I’ve talked about this with a couple of my colleagues, we all either record or mix in the studio most days of the week. And it is true, apart from some guys using their stage in-ears to listen to music on the go, nobody owns high end audio gear privately. The consensus was, that for most who spend all day listening critically on pro equipment in a great room, it’s actually a relief to have a little less detail for recreational listening after work.
@duprie373 жыл бұрын
Listening is such a subjective experience. When I was a kid, all I could afford was a $5 portable AM radio. But it didn't stop me falling in love with music.
@banjominer96822 жыл бұрын
thats right
@EdKeenan4 жыл бұрын
Musicians live in the real world where spending 500 for audioquest patch cables doesn’t make sense
@panzerfan3 жыл бұрын
And musical gears are expensive. you spend thousands and thousands just to get the sound that you want to produce, but the key is that it's what you 'produce' when you are a musician, whereas that audioquest patch cable can only 'reproduce' at best.
@Sean-tc6fg3 жыл бұрын
$500 on a patch cable to listen to music recorded with $100 mics running through decades-old corroded patch bays, a few stages of 90s A->D conversion, and carried on Hosa patch cables. Pedalboards are even funnier as now you've got a dozen blocks of die-cast medal running on sketchy power supplies bodged together with unbalanced cables handling a signal in the hundreds of millivolts with mostly analog circuitry, sometimes also decades old, sometimes then running into a tube amp mic'd up with an SM57 in a basement with comforters hanging over chairs...and you can make a platinum album like that, but audiofools will pay thousands for cable elevators.
@Justwantahover3 жыл бұрын
So it's OK to be ENTHUSIASTIC about CARS but not SPEAKERS? wtf
@Justwantahover3 жыл бұрын
@@panzerfan And they spend 400 grand on a car and that's COOL but not hi fi. Isn't that just a little bit hypocritical? People are allowed to spend mony on what they like. People think canned music is EVIL when it's played on a high end stereo system, but canned music from their bluetooth shit speakers is still just as EVIL isn't it? It's still canned music still. Why should reproduction quality and expense make it evil? wtf
@wizardmix3 жыл бұрын
Proves my point that musicians know how modern recordings are often made and that's why we're reluctant to invest in super-high end audio. I'm interested in high-end audio to a logical extent but I'm not going to chase the dragon as I know some do. The only reason I'm into high-end audio is because l like to listen to and reverse-engineer production ideas. Getting that separation of sound so I can hear details is what I like. Again, going to insane levels isn't important to me. Same with cars. Sure I'd love to ride in a 2M hyper car but the differences between that and a 80K Corvette or the acceleration you can get in a Tesla are only important to those who care about the nuances that blur the lines between the thrill you get out of use and the thrill you get via pride of ownership/investment.
@andreasrehn74544 жыл бұрын
If someone said "I love you" through the phone,would you care about the noisy bad line? Same with music.
@imrulhaque3 жыл бұрын
This is the most profound thing I’ve heard since long time.
@ghfjfghjasdfasdf3 жыл бұрын
That’s a really interesting way to look at it.... can’t say I disagree.
@spencerj3 жыл бұрын
I would still be annoyed by the noisy bad line, and if it was the first time they were saying it, I'd probably be excited, but still annoyed about the line...
@ifrit353 жыл бұрын
Wow, what a great answer.
@ogsus57733 жыл бұрын
this just hits different
@chuckaudio31913 жыл бұрын
I'm an engineer and musician. I've had a pair of Mackie HR824 Mk1 monitors for about 20 years. They are the foundation of my entertainment system. The joy they have brought me is immeasurable. Any kind of music sounds amazing.
@stringstorm3 жыл бұрын
The irony of audiophiles. Song being recorded with mediocre equipment being listened to ridiculously expensive equipment.
@PerkeleKeyboardist3 жыл бұрын
I just imagined audiophile Grimes fans, listening to music mixed on a laptop in headphones through a $30,000 stereo and orgasming about overtones and clarity that even the paid Grammy-awarded mastering engineer didn't hear in his lifetime, ever :D
@mariomguy3 жыл бұрын
@@PerkeleKeyboardist When making music the microphones and programs will capture and create and deal with frequencies you can't even hear as a human being, much less any crappy speakers you choose to work with. Then, it's up to the speakers and equipment to play it back properly. Not much people really invest in quality sound, but a $1,000 investment can get you a very nice home theater setup to enjoy movies and music in ways you never could otherwise.
@PerkeleKeyboardist3 жыл бұрын
@@mariomguy yeah, a pair of studio-grade reference monitors, exactly such as those the music is being mixed on. Anything else, be it $10 Aliexpress earbuds or $20,000 peudiophile stereo is just distroting the musical information in comparison to the intended sound observed by mixing engineer, i.e. lying.
@jjjjj22203 жыл бұрын
Belive it or not mist bigger comerical release for time are mixed in a studio
@mariomguy3 жыл бұрын
@@PerkeleKeyboardist LOL, wow. And yet, studio monitors all vary in quality, bass response, mid performance, and treble highs. Every single pair of headphones "lies" because none of them can reproduce perfectly flat, nor should they be expected to. Poor quality headphones will round out highs and provide muddy or missing bass. Medium-grade headphones will cut out midtones, some worse than others. Even studio monitors struggle with accurate highs because that's just a limitation with most magnetic drivers. A good set of monitors can reproduce music accurately, honestly, and with great quality. The more you spend, the more you'll tend to improve on all fronts, with diminishing returns past $150-$400. You don't need to spend $20,000 to get something decent to mix with, but you do need something. And the higher up you go, the better reproduction you'll get. But every pair of headphones is different.
@BonJohnvie4 жыл бұрын
I'm a professional musician and an audiophile. Most of the comments are spot on, lots of us are broke. I'm fortunate work in a military band and there is a small group of audiophiles in it. Not everyone will agree with me, but I believe I understand both perspectives. Most of us that were also audiophiles, also worked in sound production, recording, mixing, etc. When I am in the rehearsal hall hearing people practice, there's a visceral part to it. The low brass, timpani, drums, bass, etc all hit you in the chest. When I mix, I want that same effect, and I want to hear it the same way I do when I'm in rehearsal or sitting in front of the band during a tune I don't play in. I aim for the same sound and feel in my home system which is only attainable through high end audio (on a musician's budget - yes it's possible). Now for the musicians that don't care for high end audio. That one is simple in my opinion. We are surrounded by music all day. As much as I love it, its hard work. My ears are exhausted and need a rest by the end of the day. This is blasphemy in the audio community, but after a hard day's work we just need some peace and quiet! lol I love the system I put together, and it sounds like the musicians are right there. But after hearing music all day all week, I tend to save the audio for my weekends, and listen to music that I don't play. It reminds me why I fell in love with music and audio in the first place.
@JoeySchmidt743 жыл бұрын
I think I would call myself a budget audiophile!
@sakiezekiel25723 жыл бұрын
@Bon Johnvie, you said it best, yes siree😌
@TheChadPad4 жыл бұрын
As a musician, I can tell you that what I hear when listening to my Skull Candy earphones is not what's coming out of the earphones. My brain fills in all the complexity of the music that I've heard before (and some that I haven't! Hello, misheard lyrics), and incorporates that into the experience of listening to my earphones. It's the imagination that fills in the gaps in audio quality to some degree, and I'm sure everybody is like this to some extent. Why I'm interested in high end audio (and why I even have a high end audio system at all! i.e. monitors) is to record my own music. Mind you, I would've wanted a good audio system anyway eventually, turntable and everything, but recording music is a much greater impetus for me towards developing a good audio system than listening to music. If you can RECORD your music the best, it will translate the best to a multitude of other devices, and so more people can enjoy more of your song's reproduction than if you had a crappy recording, though a moving song is always a moving song, no matter how well it's recorded, which is why I still love listening to the demo version of Catamaran by Yawning Man, as I like that performance better than the official version, though it's great too. Just some insight from a musician
@Frankiebonez3373 жыл бұрын
This dude is the Mister Rogers of audio. Such a soothing and nurturing angelic voice explaining high end audio theories and facts to us all lol!!!
@toby-joereilly93513 жыл бұрын
I didn't know David Bowie made knives ;)
@NotThatKraken3 жыл бұрын
That’s because they are so rare. Most knifophiles have never even seen a David Bowie knife and plebes like us would not really appreciate the superior quality of a $2 million pre-CBS cobalt-molybdenum blade Ziggy Stardust boning knife.
@joeldespain35973 жыл бұрын
I was told that no sound equipment can match the quality of music that she plays in her mind.
@kennygsmooth834 жыл бұрын
As a musician I know that you can never have a perfect recording. Live sound will NEVER be the same as recorded sound. I don't care how much you spend. So...if it's good enough it's good enough. I'm an audiophile who knows the difference and can be okay with less than perfect. Especially when I feel the hobby can many times take away from the music itself. Analysis of music quality degrades the experience of it.
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
As a non-musician who does music mixing and recording as a hobby, I've got to say that I prefer a well mixed and mastered record to live sound. To me, live sound is simply inferior in clarity and nuance. That said, the emotional impact of actually being in the room with the musicians and hearing new melodies morph and transform in reaction to my presence is definitely something that cannot be reproduced. Studio recordings strive to be a perfect, idealized image of the music. Live sound is much more visceral.
@kennygsmooth834 жыл бұрын
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 you raise a great point that I'll agree with. Properly recorded sound can sound better than a live performance, but I've seen and have experienced both scenarios where either one is better than the other which depends on many variables. I was just pointing out the fact that many audiophiles want to achieve the effect of a musician or singer performing live in their rooms which is simply impossible to do. Realizing that may save a lot of frustration and money.
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
@@kennygsmooth83: I am glad that we could elaborate on the subject together.
@kennygsmooth834 жыл бұрын
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 most definitely!! 😊
@lvm1114 жыл бұрын
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 well said. I've seen many great acts live that I was extremely disappointed with because the audio quality sucked. I demand audio quality, live or recorded. Guess that's why I hate punk rock, or whatever it's called nowadays.
@davidryle3 жыл бұрын
"David Bowie knives" priceless.
@5roundsrapid2633 жыл бұрын
David got the name from the knife, not vice versa. It was actually named after Jim Bowie.
@davidryle3 жыл бұрын
@@5roundsrapid263 Exactly. Thus my sarcasm. I'm from Texas so the history is ingrained.
@BruceCross3 жыл бұрын
Yes, Paul is hilariously confusing David Bowie the musician with Jim Bowie knives.
@5roundsrapid2633 жыл бұрын
@@davidryle I grew up on the MS/LA border, not far from where the Sandbar Fight happened.
@johantt25913 жыл бұрын
Crazy idea - if you want to know what musicians think, ask a musician... 😂
@vitorfernandes6513 жыл бұрын
Yeah most people here do not know anything about music. I now a lot of other band members, music teachers and so on. We do not have the time to sit and listen to music. If you have 2 hours free after a long day work. You’ll use the 2 hours to practice your instrument. The only people who sit in a quiet room to listen to music are unemployed. Or living with their parents. If you have your house to clean. Food to cook, shopping, work and hobbies and kids. There’s no way you have time to sit and listen to music or even read books Most of us musicians who buy expensive audio is just to watch movies with the family. In my case I bought a 1000 euro speakers because I can. The difference of 100 euro to 1000 euro is nothing. Only 900 euro. I couldn’t care less.
@WR3ND3 жыл бұрын
The question came from a musician and was regarding his musician friends, so presumably he already knew what musicians think
@RussIsRight4 жыл бұрын
Actually Paul, it's a "James Bowie" knife. David Bowie is a musician! But we know what you mean.
@richardsoffice91764 жыл бұрын
Russ (This is my father's name, therefore, you're not only correct, but also great!): We've made Paul consider musicians, here, this time around. This is why his mind came up with 'David' instead of James!
4 жыл бұрын
I thought that was a cool slip of the tongue. :)
@legrandmaitre71124 жыл бұрын
David Jones renamed himself after the Bowie knife. The surname "Bowie" does exist in the UK and is though to be of Scottish origin. Coincidentally our Dave had at least some Scottish ancestry.
@terrywho224 жыл бұрын
That sort of slip up will get you kicked right out of Colorado.
@machintelligence4 жыл бұрын
Kind of a neat malapropism, though.
@freecitizen27604 жыл бұрын
I’m a musician. When I have money, I upgrade the quality of gear that I use to MAKE music not REPRODUCE it. So I’ll buy a mic or a mic preamp or something for recording. And the second reason is that I monitor using inexpensive ($400 new in the 80’s) Yamaha NS-10m’s. You will see those white speaker cones in studios all over the world. They have become a standard in the industry because ... mixes that sound good on NS-10m’s will sound good anywhere. Those expensive speakers are one of the last purchases I could afford to make.
@moktaabdul63104 жыл бұрын
That's right and PMC5.22, Dynaudio Proac ATC, Gershmsn studios Focal speakers.
@roymoderatto3 жыл бұрын
I agree! Genelec 1030s or 1031s... we all have favorites. Some of those may be expensive indeed, but in a practical way!
@yasunakaikumi3 жыл бұрын
Nailed it, that's the reason why we're broke we go accuracy rather than intended crap
@drdelewded3 жыл бұрын
Mixing on ns10s after a couple hours makes one hate music and life..
@aryanz663 жыл бұрын
As a Musician, I think audio equipment should just produce the sound accurately and get out of the way
@nicallen21373 жыл бұрын
The emotional and nostalgia of listening to music should always come first, quality second. As a audiophile and musician I believe this is the reason we love music. I don't think many people remember certain song from there youth, that reminded them of someone or some fond event and though...wow what a great recording. Of course the music takes a whole new level of experience when the quality is great, but never forget why we listen to music in the first place.
@michaellambie84274 жыл бұрын
Paul I just found your channel and am happy be apart of this experience. I am a pro audio engineer but mentored by two brilliant HIFI designer and engineers. I asked them this same quesition for years . They sat me down told me this : Mickey audio is learnt . People listen to what has been given to them over the year as the grow up . So always show them the difference , teach them and then they will understand as they hear the difference " so if you introduce them to listen to a better or accurate audio they will make the change . However there is an economical factor . In one my mentor's counseling advised that " cheaper audio equipment and quality audio can not be used in the same sentence " lol. So to get the correct results it is not necessarily affordable and not knowing what is correct accurate audio is learnt . Although there are a number of new product on market that are great quality but if you have to know what to listen for that would give you some good and above average audio. All of this experience I have used to teach musicians and quite their fears as they do what you to change the audio characteristics of the instrument . So muscians use what have as the dont knon any better or can afford . ok There are a lot more things but this is the fundamental reason. Hope this helps. I hope you read this Paul Thanks
@ceinodowd18414 жыл бұрын
That is something I've noticed, a lot of my friends listen to music on €10 earbuds and are totally happy with it but then as soon as I let them try my audio technicas they realise how dull the super cheap ones sound. I know it's nowhere near proper hifi quality or anything but there's a huge jump between the sound of €10 earbuds and €100 headphones that a lot of people don't realise is there until they try it
@michaellambie84274 жыл бұрын
@@ceinodowd1841 well said . That the point . There are a number of head phone oout there now the sound very good . But as you have done listener would know until they hear the difference
@xxxYYZxxx3 жыл бұрын
Because pro sound equipment sounds as-good or better than "high end" audio, while typically costing a fraction of the price.
@FinalBaton3 жыл бұрын
cold hard fact (that the hi-fi industry doesn't want people to know...)
@xxxYYZxxx3 жыл бұрын
@@FinalBaton To be fair, pro audio equipment isn't cheap, but some of the "high end" sales tactics are just outright snake oil.
@davehollingsworth58763 жыл бұрын
LMFAO
@easypete9753 жыл бұрын
Pro audio is nice due to the fact that tou can slam the volume and dont suffer feom distortion
@nielsblume3 жыл бұрын
Musician and producer here... the emotion and atmosphere and balance of sound is the most important thing. Good music sounds good on any audio set up.
@aussie_philosopher80793 жыл бұрын
As a musician I have wondered the same for years until I finally got in to it recently....no turning back now.
@meshplates4 жыл бұрын
Maybe because high end sound is still a thousand miles from sounding like live music. So to a musician the difference between high end sound and a boom box doesn't seem very significant.
@dennisbohner68764 жыл бұрын
Stereophile interviewed John Lee Hooker. He was using a cassette playing am/fm table top radio. He heard the music in his head, not by his ears.
@y2an3 жыл бұрын
My father was a professional musician with a world renowned orchestra. To him the sound from a perfect recording through an awesome hiding was nothing like the sounds (plural) on the stage or in the orchestra pit, which were filled with groans, grunts and other noises of players at work. On the other hand, get him into the audience and he didn’t care about the seat and what view it gave, he was there to listen and gauge how well the conductor had balanced the sound given the acoustics of the concert hall.
@unruler3 жыл бұрын
Musicians are obsessed with playing perfectly, not getting perfect sound from their audio system.
@issaromero27003 жыл бұрын
Exactly my man , when I record a video of a solo don’t give a damn of the quality of the video or the sound, just wanted to hear the vibe and play on time, comment on point, 👍🏿
@meadowz063 жыл бұрын
Wrong. You simply don’t know what you speak!
@martybousum10103 жыл бұрын
I'm a musician, and I'm fanatical about my stereo sound. Finally have a system that satisfies my hunger, after all these years of trial and error. But, most of my friends do not share my passion.
@TheRealSamPreece4 жыл бұрын
Audiophiles listen to the sound of the speakers, musicians listen to the sound of the idea.
@inthefade3 жыл бұрын
Nailed it.
@jozefbania3 жыл бұрын
What do you think about the best music gear called CON-audio? hehe
@oh0333 жыл бұрын
The guitars and amps already cost enough man don’t do this to me!
@jules1534 жыл бұрын
Usually because musicians are broke!
@captainwin63334 жыл бұрын
Usually because it sounds nothing like their instruments whether that's natural instruments or electric like guitars. No musician has ever been fooled by audiophile gear versus the real thing. Ever.
@SilmarilS794 жыл бұрын
@@captainwin6333 Yet, when I go see shows, most of the time, their audio is really sub-par....
@SimonAZ4 жыл бұрын
If you buy audiophile equipment 2nd hand it does not have to be expensive.
@bassman46324 жыл бұрын
Even some rich ones have sub-par/average gear (see Jimmy Page)
It's like pro racing diver don't always need to get their kicks driving supercars in everyday life.
@TheBaconWizard3 жыл бұрын
Does anything about the sound reproduction do anything to detract from my original performance or recording in a way that is actually significant to the music's message?
@paulj98213 жыл бұрын
YES......
@esotericsoundlab3 жыл бұрын
Nice topic! I've been a guitar player since my early teens circa '89 and around the same time started my Hi-Fi journey. In high school a subscribed to various guitar, recording, and Hi-Fi mags like Stereophile. I watched and learned how computers were growing in recording studios and anticipated a day when hi-res recording would become a reality at home escaping proprietary systems built for studios. The time came when Win XP was unleased and anticipating the release I spent a year buying parts for a custom built PC for myself. Being on a budget my computer allowed me to have a 24/192 recording workstation, home theater (TV tuner, DVR, DVD audio/video), and to game all from one box. My box was connected to a Sony ES receiver powering a Wharfedale 5.1 speaker system with custom made Kimber speaker wire and custom interconnects. What I don't obsess over is car audio because that stuff gets stolen so I build those good enough. 🔥🎸🔥
@neira.francisco4 жыл бұрын
My haute cuisine teacher, who also became my friend, once called me asking if I knew a good deliverable pizza. In a totally pedantic tone, I said him "excuse me sir, I do my pizzas by myself!". Answer was a lot of 🤬🤬 and a huge laugh. Regards from Lima, Peru.
@danielbell40073 жыл бұрын
David Bowie knives?! I want a David Bowie knife. ;-) (Jim Bowie was the knife guy, well it was named for him anyway)
@jackchan62663 жыл бұрын
Well responded! I was previously interested in high end audio headphones and if they will make my music “better” but definitely missed the point.
@TheJamesdavidmartin3 жыл бұрын
Made me think of that bit in 24 Hour Party People where Joy Devision get the tape with the final mix of Love will Tear Us Apart and they rush to play it for the first time on a crappy car stereo rather than a Hifi because they want to hear it the way most people were going to hear it.
@dainhuston4 жыл бұрын
I'm 54 been playing guitar from age ten and I happen to be the proud owner of a set of AR 3's powered by a set of Mac 50's .You should run this question by Rick Beato . I would love to hear his answer
@HiFiInsider4 жыл бұрын
they call them "starving musicians" you know. :) Mechanics drive the crappiest cars and chefs eat package ramen. lol...
@dustrider93064 жыл бұрын
In Germany we have a saying which goes like "Des Schusters Kinder laufen barfuß" which would directly translate to 'The shoemakers kids are walking barefeet'. It seems not too uncommon. My Explanation is, that handymen know that they could repair their stuff when needed, so there is no urge to do it now as long as things are still working. Doesn't translate to the musician, though...
@paavoilves54164 жыл бұрын
@@dustrider9306 Heyyyy, we have the same saying here in Finland (at least almost exactly). "Shoemaker's kids don't have shoes"
@pawlowski61324 жыл бұрын
Cobbler's children in
@heythere69833 жыл бұрын
Audiophiles often go to more sterile sounds because they think it sounds more articulate. They like harsher tones and when something has a burr brown chip they say it’s muddy or outdated lmao. They think brighter and thinner is more articulate . Even if something is equally articulate and has all articulations , if it is warm, they will say it’s muddy. In fairness some guitarists do this too and often go to the high mid emphasis as clear which is also a mistake. But audiophiles often want unrealistic delivery of sounds and thinks wider soundstages are always best or hearing things that are meant to be obscured is best. They overlook the art of music and think it’s about looking at it under a microscope. It’s the equivalent of me taking a photo and over sharpening it and thinking because I can see the pores in everyone’s face in a photo the photo is now better. Audiophile equipment is way overrated for sure. Iv seen this myself looking into DACs and amps. They worry about specs and not the actual music lol . They think music sounds better when they buy an overly powerful amplifier that is way more horsepower than they need .
@paulj98213 жыл бұрын
@@heythere6983 You are generalizing big time. So many of us audiophiles are anything like what you described. The problem is the elitists in our hobby. They are the loudest( publications etc..) and so many people think that is what an audiophile is.
@marimbadaddy Жыл бұрын
Paul, As a musician, composer, and sometimes sound engineer, I can speak directly to this issue. As the Fixies pointed out… most musicians can’t afford audiophile level gear and would rather spend their money on better quality instruments to produce/create the sound, as we are mainly concerned with the live sound quality. And as you wisely pointed out, the musician is most concerned with the emotional experience of the listener more so than the pure aesthetic experience. We also realize, no matter how hard one tries, or how much money is spent, a speaker will never quite be able to reproduce the sound of a live instrument, so it is absolutely futile to try. There are diminishing returns when you go past getting a good sound system, none of which matter to someone trying to have an emotional experience with the music they listen to. But passion is passion, and if you want to have the absolute best (desktop computer, stereo system, computer keyboard, rock climber, bowling ball, etc.) if you have the means and time to make that happen, more power to you. As you and most your viewers know, a (insert device here) can display incredible measurements in the laboratory or anechoic chamber. It can have the highest output with the lowest relative distortion. But, the actual sound can be mediocre. And so too, the more you spend on something, the better it is going to sound (to you) after you’ve installed it. But the reality is no matter how much you pay for a speaker cable, even ones that have been: dipped in liquid nitrogen; rolled around in the finest of manure of Russet piglets fed only Truffle mushrooms from the black forest of west Germany; then independently hand-woven by Armenian gypsies; then blessed not only by an rabi, but also a high cardinal from the Vatican; sent into low Earth orbit in a decommissioned Japanese weather balloon by a one-eyed Tibetan monk with a limp; before being polished with the finest of American snake oils and packaged; it is still just a wire carrying a signal. By the way, I have these limited edition PureHoakum™ cables for sale on my webstore for only $13,489,672,384.63. And remember, its not PureHoakum™ unless it has been dipped in liquid nitrogen; rolled around in the finest of manure of Russet piglets fed only Truffle mushrooms from the black forest of West Germany; independently woven by an Armenian gypsies; blessed by a rabi, and a high cardinal from the Vatican; sent into low Earth orbit in a decommissioned Japanese weather balloon by a one-eyed Tibetan monk with a limp; before being polished with the finest of American snake oils, otherwise its just plain old BS. BTW - our PureHoakum™ enhanced salt makes all foods taste amazing, and helps you loose weight too (the salt processing is slightly different than the cables). Paul thanks for your web channel. It is great stuff. Your explanations are great, helping us to understand some very heady concepts!
@mensamin3 жыл бұрын
As a music producer I can say that for me is not only important, but vital for mixing and mastering.
@livekaos3 жыл бұрын
I’m both a musician and audiophile. For me is all about the sound! I need to have the best sound when I listen to music and when I play my instrument.
@noahbirdrevolution4 жыл бұрын
There is a point of diminishing return when paying for "audiophile" level equipment. I want to hear a quality reproduction, but don't need artificial "airy" sounds from a fancy power cable that cost more than all the standard instrument & power cables my band used combined.
@Arctic_silverstreak3 жыл бұрын
I am producing music for quite a while and using some generic headphones included in my smartphones box and when i switched to studio monitor i find little to no difference
@greyfox23473 жыл бұрын
Mind me asking.. What are those blue drawers full of in the background?
@Paulmcgowanpsaudio3 жыл бұрын
Parts for engineering. Transistors, ICs, screws, connectors. Just about everything you can imagine and some things one cannot.
@gboates4 жыл бұрын
I’ve asked many as I worked with them over 30 years - always the same answer “I hear it in my head”. Boring and short answer time and time again.
@PanAmStyle4 жыл бұрын
gary boates This is what I was going to say ... *sound* is in the ear-brain, *music* exists in the mind. Those are two different realities.
@andershammer93074 жыл бұрын
When I hear music in my head the highs and lows are severely rolled off. I need to have a good system to replace what gets lost in my brain.
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
Can confirm. The sound is in their heads.
@seanfitz814 жыл бұрын
i'm a musician but also love hi-fi, i listen to music all day so i get a lot of benefit from a good system. but also i "play songs in my head" if there isnt music, its almost involuntary
@bolivarpou41184 жыл бұрын
I believe that we focus on sound quality; musicians focus on the music.
@housebandthexenos25693 жыл бұрын
No, musicians focus on sound quality that everybody hears. Audiophiles focus on sound quality only they hear.
@marcelchaloupka3 жыл бұрын
Musicians focus on tone.
@drdelewded3 жыл бұрын
@@housebandthexenos2569 Only they convince themselves they hear to justify wasting so much money
@nyawnyaw123453 жыл бұрын
This is how I see it, people always want what they can't have. A musician can reproduce the sound of a live performance in a room whenever they want audiophiles can't without spending alot of money. Most Musicians I believe are satisfied sonically with their own raw organic sound so they don't crave that desire to get closer to the music like an audiophile as they are literally creating and hearing the music in its truest form. An audiophile that doesn't play an instrument may not hear a live piano or guitar in a room all that often so that sound is 'special' to them where as a musician most likely takes that sound for granted, which isn't that unusual as most people start playing at a very young age so it has always been normal and accessible to them.
@bruceferrara3917 Жыл бұрын
I am a jazz musician, and music director in venues. My experience is people in general don't listen to music much. There is music playing everywhere and many people have forgotten how to listen or even why music exists. It is bound to leak over to musicians also...strangely. There hasn't been awareness of good sound quality or people even ever being exposed to it. I made an intention to by a high end(as much as I could afford) system , when I realized I had stopped listening as an experience. I worked on music everyday, transcribing or composing or arranging. I would hear things and see what could inspire ideas etc...but the experience I had as a teenager where I would sit down and just listen to a whole record at one sitting didn't happen. The visceral, emotional experience of listeing to a high end system was something that I missed. Now I take time to just listen. High end gear makes this happen to me. It is beautiful. I try to evangelize this concept...not much luck. Attention spans ar shorter I guess, and we all enter life with a different level of awareness...some more emotional or sensual than others
@bstrunk574 жыл бұрын
What is the last thing in the world that a gynecologist wants to see when he gets home?
@mka4pol3 жыл бұрын
Hillary Clinton; the world's biggest one.
@zenwarrior36033 жыл бұрын
@@mka4pol we're talking about music. Keep you politics to yourself!
@mka4pol3 жыл бұрын
@@zenwarrior3603 Normally I would, as I'm basically apolitical; but it was such a good setup...
@KittenFlower663 жыл бұрын
a messy kitchen
@davidbalentine21103 жыл бұрын
The mechanic’s car doesn’t run right, the plumber’s pipes leak, the nurse makes a lousy patient, the barber needs a haircut, the psychiatrist is impolite...
@mymixture9654 жыл бұрын
I am a musician, I have a decent system, i will invest in my system in the future even more. But I have no illusion to make it sound live, this is an audiophile illusion/dream I am not chasing, because I know it is not possible. So what I want to say is that many musicians are more realistic about HiFi.
@captainwin63334 жыл бұрын
Exactly. Too many audiophiles either believe in or ar chasing the "sounds like the band is in your room" nonsense. It's marketing garbage.
@82ivaylo4 жыл бұрын
It's true.
@ilovecops62554 жыл бұрын
THANKES YOU KIND SIR,.AND WELL STATETDES! THUMBBES UPSS!
@kevin7jazz4 жыл бұрын
Like everyone else, I’ve been to plenty of live shows that sound crappy. We accept it as a part of the experience. It’s only when you go to a venue that cares about audio-like Austin City Limits-do you appreciate what good music and good sound are like together.
@mymixture9654 жыл бұрын
@@captainwin6333 marketing it is, very true
@nielsott3 жыл бұрын
Nice video and interesting thoughts! I myself work as an audio engineer. I used to use only good loudspeakers, anything else would make me angry. But over the years, I switched to e.g. watching videos on my laptop with the built-in speakers. It's like I don't even want to activate my "professional hearing". But of course, when someone asks me how I like their new song, I will definitely use my studio speakers to listen to it. It's a bit sad that when you make a recording for somebody, they don't even listen to their own music on things I would call a loudspeaker. Even though, acceptable active speakers are not that expensive anymore and do last very long. But hey, what's a speaker system for 500 bucks, when you also can get the new iPhone for even more bucks. Crazy.
@mrstevens703 жыл бұрын
That was very interesting. Thanks for sharing.😄
@circulatelife80504 жыл бұрын
Cause they usually listen to live music?
@jemi75664 жыл бұрын
For acoustic musicians who are into hi-fi, violin myself, and I've heard a clarinetist say the same thing, the reproduced versions of their instruments are so far off from the real thing it's hopeless. Most of the times the sound is ruined at the mixing board, never mind the rest of the playback chain. Itzhak Perlman has said he struggles with recording engineers every time to get a what he considers a good violin sound from his recordings. What you said about the communication of the content and intent of their work rings true. It's like cellphones, if you're interested in getting a message across, you just need enough clarity. The rest is on the communicator.
@x1thesoul1723 жыл бұрын
At one time I was more picky about how I listened to music. I’d say the biggest breakthrough for me was when I was jamming with a friend, and the only thing they offered me for amplification or my laptop with synths and beats was a bass amp. It reeeally was not friendly to my intentions, or so I thought at least. On top of that, he recorded the session of the room, with just a basic mic setup. Was terrible but good, for me, having participated, to listen to. Since then, I kind of grew this appreciation for whack speakers, whack amplification, and eventually became satisfied with mediocre methods of ‘hearing’ music. It’s not like I’m often in the position to enjoy music at its most pristine representation. I’d need the time, the space, and the worthwhile music. My imagination fills in for the majority of it. Yeah, you can Always find a situation where you’re more blown away by the clarity, balance, fidelity, than the previous. I still do get super annoyed with terrible time stretching, and with digital compression garbling without a doubt. Oddly, as a person into music, the thing I value most is peacefulness. To Not hear music... to not hear that intent or ‘listen to me’, ‘pay attention to me’. Actively listening to music can take a lot out of me.
@GreekLegend1403 жыл бұрын
As an audiophile who sold high end equipment in the 80s and 90s, I concur. There is a well known violinist in the Chicago area who I sold a reel-to-reel tape recorder to so that she could listen to some run offs of work that she did in the studio. At home she had an all in one, 20 year old, department store stereo with a blown left speaker. There were no extra line level inputs, so I tried to sell her on the idea of an integrated amp or a receiver, plus an inexpensive pair of speakers. She asked if I could make what she had work, and I said yes, but it wouldn't be much less money than a decent quality, inexpensive, receiver. I also indicated that she should use the blown speaker(it still worked somewhat) with a new amp, since it could damage the receiver. I went into the old stereo chassis, installed a toggle switch between the turntable and a new set of jacks. By the way, the phono cartridge was what they used to call ceramic, so it worked on a line level input. I implored her to do the switching with the stereo off, before playing anything, then turning it on. The company I used to work for in downtown Chicago sold a lot of equipment to musicians of the Chicago Symphony, including the symphony office as well. Most musicians purchased modest stuff. Although, the modest stuff that we carried was pretty nice.
@laurelhardy40644 жыл бұрын
I think like Paul said, the musicians are looking for that emotional connection that compare to live music no hi-end system in the world can match.
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
Especially when they are the ones playing the actual instrument. Live music to them is more about the experience of playing.
@phoenixsound4 жыл бұрын
As a musician I appreciate and insist on quality audio reproduction for my music, especially because I record and produce my own music. However the very process of recording instruments introduces losses that when played back on high end audio cannot recreate the true sound of live instruments. No high end audio equipment can compare with the sound of a real instrument. Musical instruments are the real deal and cost much less. When I want high end audio I just pick up my guitar.
@paulj98213 жыл бұрын
But most Guitar songs are done through hooking them up to an amplifier. Unless we are talking about playing acoustic guitar in a small room, the moment you hook your instrument to a piece of electrical technology you are doing the same. The best example of what you are trying to say would be a violinist. Being in the presence of a master playing in an acoustically treated concert hall is something that no audio can reproduce the same.
@pappayoyo3 жыл бұрын
Im 28 but been recording and writing since i was 13 on my own ' im spoiled now though on all senses from visuals to audios' i cant stare at a 1080 p 60 hert screen on a 50 wat audio system with no bass ' its annoying to me that i feel i cant enjoy nothing enless it at a high to premium quality
@morganroddick10633 жыл бұрын
As a musician and engineer and appreciator of great sounding audio, i agree with your premise that we care more about the performance than the sound of it, and as other commenters have mentioned cost is an issue, but i would like to add that the knowledge base for hi end audio and creating music has almost no overlap, and a lot of us have very little bandwidth or time left to learn a whole other area to able to participate actively in high end audio stuff and not get fleeced.
@johnfriedel68874 жыл бұрын
My parents were professional (classical) musicians. My father’s answer was that he would “hear” the piece as it should sound in his head over what the system produced. It may also have to with perspective. The listening experience in the middle of an orchestra or group is radically different from the audience perspective.
@vicjackson71644 жыл бұрын
Musicians & audiophiles (or audio enthusiasts) most of the time are 2 different types of people. Every so often, the 2 find themselves in the same body.
@KnowArt3 жыл бұрын
In composition class, one classmate was always whining about the quality of the speakers and the fact that her midi wasn't set right to play the score, until on day our teacher said something like "Oh, shut up. Mozart played in 8 bit on a nokia 3310 is still Mozart!"
@DanielBuchanan13 жыл бұрын
Sent this to my audiophile drummer friend of mine, I’ve never been able to articulate this as well!
@theheathster24 жыл бұрын
The thing is, the emotional connection to music can be had through a transistor radio, or a supermarket PA system, and this how I believe most musicians view it. When I connect with music, I don’t care where the bass player was stood in relation to the guitar player, and what brand of strings he was using. I’ve relaxed how I listen to music these days, no longer always rigidly sat between the speakers, as though in a Victorian photographer’s brace! That said, I do value the ability of an audio system to convey the dynamics and impact of the music, which is something many cheap audio systems fail to do.
@wayneday31164 жыл бұрын
Classical musicians and music critics tend to value performance over reproduction. They can hear a great performance through the grunge of a pre-1950's recording, which I as an audiophile have never been able to do.
@stevengooden79114 жыл бұрын
WR Day exactly! I’m an orchestra conductor and was given the side eye when purchasing Dvorak cello concerto produced by a “not great record company” ...it was Rostropovich and the performance is incredible so I didn’t care about it being the ‘best pressing”
@piotrgraniszewski85444 жыл бұрын
Now imagine music teachers working remotely during the pandemic who judge their students' performances on crappy, distorting laptop speakers. It's real. It doesn't bother them one bit!
@stevengooden79114 жыл бұрын
Piotr Graniszewski in defense, it’s a very long road from student to what we listen to on recordings. The amount of time and work people like Anthony McGill put in to get to where we can listen to him with the NY Philharmonic would leave jaws on the floor for many. For students during the pandemic, there’s a lot we can hear, assess, and teach disregarding tone quality of their instrument though a medium like Teams or Zoom/crap speakers. Rhythm, interpretation, technique, etc. What’s fascinating about being a musician and audiophile is that I listen in very different ways. The critical listening nature of being a conductor puts us inside the music in an enviable way. We hear details that even live audiences can’t discern, and what I like reading about is the similarities in some terminology and how the definitions of those words are so different. It’s fascinating to hear how different carts are more “musical” or has better “rhythm”.
@kristianTV19743 жыл бұрын
I really appreciated this - a refreshingly honest video from someone who has a vested interest in selling his product, so kudos for that. Like a few others answering here, I too have a degree in EE, specialising in DSP for my final year, and while I would never pretend to be a world expert on that front, I have a better grasp than a lot of the general public. When I graduated I was a hardware engineer for a company called Genex in the late 90's (I know... and if YOU know, you know too... ;) ) designing 96/32 M.O. recorders, (DSD compatible) used in Abbey Road (amongst other places), so have a pretty low level tech appreciation for that sort of thing. Amazing sound quality for the time which has been surpassed in the past 20 years, easily, but exactly what you wanted to master from at the time. Now, as an electronic musician/producers of almost 30 odd years now, this guy hit the nail on the head - if the song elicits an emotional response in the listener, and doesn't exhibit heinous audio artefacts , then Joe or Jane public are unlikely to notice, so that is fine. No need for higher fidelity recordings, especially seeing as that at point of delivery, MP3 was the standard until it got deprecated recently. Not many people are what we call 'golden ears' in real life anyway, so why bother trying to impress the
@macboeck3 жыл бұрын
Musician here. We train to fill in the gaps so often that sometimes we don't care because some of what we "listen" to is in our head already. If you play a musician a piece and randomly mute the audio for a second he probably wouldn't be bothered because the music went on in her/his mind. Same goes for frequencies. I remember how a piano should sound like. If a mediocre mp3 is cutting all those high frequencies my brain puts them back in. That might be an explanation as well.
@macboeck3 жыл бұрын
Besides money and space for the equipment: musicians probably always appreciate high quality sound! When I had a recording session in a proper studio and we got to listen to our takes, I was overrun with joy that it sounded in the mixing room exactly like a few minutes before in front of the piano. That certainly doesn't count as "ignoring high end audio". So that phrasing is a bit off, is the point I try to make.
@jpined144 жыл бұрын
I’ve been a musician for over a decade who new into chasing good stereo sound. I too was fine with crappy Best Buy systems until I heard audiophile ones. But still I doubt at any price it would replace playing with a band and hearing actual live music.
@obsprisma4 жыл бұрын
That is how i see it also. Just find a good balance between good affortable music systems but never take it too high because you are going to miss the real goal. Emotion. Music is emotion. You can not catch music to its real purpose when you aim only to quality systems at home.
@HareDeLune4 жыл бұрын
The idea is not to replace musicians and live music, but to be able to enjoy the closest thing you can get to that in your own home. Also, to be able to hear musicians of the past who are no longer with us, as they sounded when making the recording.
@obsprisma4 жыл бұрын
@@HareDeLune My point is that some house audio systems are more expensive then the recording studio where the record was made in. And i have a decent system myself but some audiophiles gets more excited because of the sound that comes to life in their own houses then they get goosebumbs from the music itselfs which you can also get from lower priced systems. no offence btw to you 👍
@machintelligence4 жыл бұрын
@@HareDeLune If you are interested in truly old recordings, a boom box is probably adequate. I listened to an FM classical station while working and would sometimes amaze my helpers by pointing out that the music playing was a very old 78 rpm recording. They always asked how I knew, and it was the lack of dynamic range and frequency response that gave it away, even on a job site radio. I never claimed to be a classical music expert (although perhaps I should have, to mess with their heads.)
@HareDeLune4 жыл бұрын
@@obsprisma No offence taken. If one does their homework and knows what to look for, then there is absolutely no reason to spend obscene amounts of money on a Hi-Fi system, unless one has more money than sense. : )
@billwillard94104 жыл бұрын
I think I reject the premise of the question - that musicians should naturally be as passionate about their hifi system as they are about they feel about their music. I consider them two distinct passions with just a thread connecting them. Making music is a participation sport, as opposed to audiophiles as fans or observers as far as the music goes, and are two separate frames of mind.
@joshshultz12503 жыл бұрын
As soon as I heard classical musician who is an audiophile I went, "oh, that type..."
@RichSad453 жыл бұрын
Yeah me too. When I heard musician I assumed a Fender, Marshall or Vox fan!
@louisponseele43213 жыл бұрын
What's that supposed to mean...
@MistinIndia3 жыл бұрын
Am I an "high end audiophile" if I buy Bowers and Wilkins headphones and Dali stereo speakers? Just asking for clarification I don't really care if it qualifies my as such or not.