Clan Jade Falcon: The Summoner isn't just an upgraded Thunderbolt, it's a totally different and superior machine. Also Clan Jade Falcon: We caved and built the Thunderbolt IIC.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
"We have Thunderbolt at home..." Thunderbolt at home...
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrogIn clanner space, at home means MORE expensive
@Matthew-jn1tg Жыл бұрын
As a new player, whenever I see these videos I always respond with "idk, why am I supposed to love this mech"
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
And hopefully, by the end of the video, you have an answer?
@Matthew-jn1tg Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog usually,we disagree on favorite weapon types, but overall you make a great case for iic mechs
@Richy0326 Жыл бұрын
The Thunderbolt is an odd mech to give the IIC treatment to, as it's usually done to address a mech's shortcomings. The Thunderbolt is a solid all-rounder. A direct upgrade of the original could be interesting though - simply upgrading the weapons to clan spec frees up 6 tons, upgrade to double heatsinks and you can add a pair of machineguns and an ER large laser in each arm without any heat issues at longer ranges, and still have enough weight left over to swap the SRM 2 for an SRM 6.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
It's difficult to improve on near perfection.
@Darren_Xero Жыл бұрын
Jade Falcons sure love the Thunderbolt, since it shares some similarities with their Thor/Summoner. For that, they converted any Thunderbolts they've captured with Clan weapons. So fond of the Thunderbolt to the point of making the Thunderbolt IIC to share some parts with Summoners
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Indeed...
@jasonashman9534 Жыл бұрын
IIRC the Summoner/TBolt connection is actually not true; the Summoner's lineage goes through a very non-Thunderbolt looking mech. I thought exactly the same thing when I first laid eyes on the Summoner in the 90s- and, well, look at it- so I'm sure it's a common mistake.
@philippauli8162 Жыл бұрын
Holy hell. I came for the outstanding mech content...I was not expecting a proper lesson in economics complete with Hayek and Rothbard references. Well done brother, well done!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Boom, edumacated! Thanks for coming by!
@GonnaDieNever Жыл бұрын
Saw the jump jet variant of the Thunderbolt 2C get excellent use during one of the narrative games at Historicon. Jade Falcons were holding a major industrial center against Hell's horses, roughly 30k BV per side, and the Thunderbolt 2C was consistently a pain in the ass for Hell's horses. Enough firepower they had to take it seriously, but enough jump jets to make it really annoying in a city fight. It actually ended up being more impactful than the Jade Phoenix on the battlefield.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Oh, that's awesome to hear!
@Nikotheos Жыл бұрын
I firmly believe that the core problem with any economics model is that the people with money in a society, and the people with intelligence to utilize the model’s propositions, are rarely the same people or even on speaking terms. Also, cool mech!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Going from theory to practice is tough because human beings are so flawed... If we were more perfect, it all would be much easier.
@AnimeSunglasses6 ай бұрын
The effect is so seemingly consistent, in fact, but I feel rather strongly we don't giving us credence, and enough research, to the possibility that concentrating wealth may have a negative effect on human intelligence.
@silverkir Жыл бұрын
These kinds of macro scale logistical questions of supply chains for specific parts, and having that translate to combat effectiveness, would be the exact kind of video game I would love to see in the battletech universe. heck, even one where you play the logistical angle and do not have control over the variants and models selected for production would be a cool angle.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
4x BattleTech Universe. Let's do this.
@keebbles7 ай бұрын
@MechanicalFrog if they include salvage teams, research groups for reverse engineering or upgrading tech. In 3062 I did half skull and 1 skull missions just to build battalions of 2C versions. Mostly light mechs like the stinger and wasps. Sell them in lots on worlds I had best ratings on. Make bank. I'd rebuild clan mechs, strip them and build 2Cs. Rogue tech added pirates and tank/vtols to loot piñatas. Made 2 overheater flankers with speed and 2 dedicated headshot mechs. Loot choices were glorious. Pirates often gave me the overheating tech like lrm5s that do 1 heat per missile hit. Using hydra or incendiary was glorious. Even swarm could heat up multiple targets. 1 headshot mech with sniper cannon w/shape charges and hvy lg laser. The other was gauss and 2 binary lasers. Both w headshot battle computers and all the stuff for called shot bonuses. Cheesed my way into endgame. With a fat balance. Started w tech background and hired same as well as merchants.
@krissteel4074 Жыл бұрын
I didn't know there was a IIC of the Thunderbolt, the original had so many variants I thought maybe it was lost in there because there was a LOT of them! Dunno the LH-Impoved isn't a bad laser, but the basic inner sphere mech had a thing going where at 65t it was close to or nearly the same as a lot of assault mechs with something like 12-13t of armour alone. Less firepower of course compared to anything clan in some ways, but they were extremely hard to get rid of and sometimes just being the last arsehole standing at the end of a fight is a win. So being that little slugger who could take Rocky Balboa beatings was something I would have liked to see with Clan-Ferro armour points instead of just being another very warm 70t mech with clan weapons
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
It's sure interesting. I hope it shows up in the IlClan era.
@mathewkelly9968 Жыл бұрын
I dunno if it's a thing anymore , like it's glaringly missing from the Jade Falcon Random Units list in Tamar Rising . The Thunderbolt C 2 appears in the list though , I'd guess that's what that Thunderbolt line is doing now
@aeronnelson8479 Жыл бұрын
Yes exactly the inner sphere mechs designated with a singular C are usually the base loadouts with clantech. However like with the Atlas and Warhammer the thunderbolt also has a C 2 and it's an auto include for my falcon forces. It's just to damned good to not take.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Yeah it would be a real shame if the mech was gone forever.
@egaroadkill8701 Жыл бұрын
Ah the T-bucket. It's one fabulous heavy that I have always loved and especially hated. It never ceases to amaze me how I get clobbered by statistically amazing critical hits to my head and ammo early on in an encounter, yet others driving the T-bolt slug it out in incredible examples of durability. Maybe one day I'll add armored locations to the cockpit and ammo bins. I like the second version you displayed better than the blast furnace. I especially liked your using "command" economy, a cuss word I often use with pencil necked government managers who just stare back blankly.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
God bless the bureaucrat, because I sure won't.
@jamesbeard5513 Жыл бұрын
The newest of IIC designs. I wouldn't mind seeing more interpretations like this in the setting, though it would be designs that had a history at the time of the Exodus. I would say I was surprised Malvina didn't want to create a Firestarter IIC, but it is hard to reinvent the wheel and a niche design probably wouldn't be that popular.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
"See that thing? I want it to be on fire."
@iaindrews8709 Жыл бұрын
Can't wait for a "why do we love the viking iic" because that mech is something else.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Going to try to get through all the IICs, eventually.
@voodooloukerensky3884 Жыл бұрын
Clan Black Sheep, Dark Caste, has procured the plans to all mechs ever produced by ANY Clan. You see being the Clans 'Sneaky Bastards' we introduced a back door into a chip thats so widely used that the inner sphere had included it in their productions for the Wolfs Dragoons. Having recently gotten the Essentials Box and being Clan, albeit not the popular vision there-of, the Standees will get the IIc treatment and a 2nd Yen Lo Wang 3 is in the works.
@fenny1578 Жыл бұрын
I'll have to watch in a bit, but I wanted to drop a pre-comment on the Thunderbolt itself. Many many years ago on Frontier Lands (A BTMux, which is a very complex and hard to explain thing, but basically text based real time battletech tabletop MMO) the owner had us running 3025 tech for a bit, but finally when we updated to level 2 IS we got given a new free starter mech, it was a Thunderbolt variety. I can't remember which one anymore, as this was way back in 2006 or so, but god I spent so many hours plodding about in that machine. Good lord I miss Frontier Lands so much.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
The OG Thunderbolt is one of the best mechs of the 3025 time period.
@atmosdwagon4656 Жыл бұрын
Since there's not really anything connecting the original Thunderbolt to the Clan IIC version beyond a vague allusion to its configuration cobbled together from spare parts, I will withhold my commentary on the original, save that it's one of my favorite heavy mechs for just being a good workhorse heavy. As for the Thunderbolt IIC, as usual it boils down to: "Freaking Heavy Lasers, man. Just...why?" The ONLY benefit of the Heavy Laser vs something like a Clan ER-PPC or ER-Large Pulse Laser is the damage. While the damage improvement is substantial, it comes at the cost of either heat efficiency or range flexibility. Due to how heat budgeting works, individually hot weapons reduce the granularity of weapon selection you can reliably use on any given turn. Or put more simply: If you're going to boat 2 (or more) super-hot weapons you had damn well ensure you have the heatsinks to completely cover firing both of them at once or it's just going to lead to wasted tonnage. And the Prime Variant of the Thunderbolt IIC....doesn't even do that. To wit, I'd refit the Thunderbolt IIC with the following: -2x ER-Large Pulse Lasers (replacing the Improved Heavy Lasers) -1x ATM 6 with two tons of ammo (1 ton of HE, and 1 Ton of Standard) -3x Clan Flamers (replacing the ER Medium Lasers) for killing Infantry, Elementals and for clearing out buildings/cover. OR -3x CER-Small Lasers for short range work vs Vehicles and Mechs trying to play grab-ass. This leaves 13 Double Heat Sinks and 5 tons of free space to play with. We have a few options here: First possibility: Add 2 Double Heat Sinks back (to 15) and 3 Jump Jets. (hey, Variant 2 has four Jump Jets on it and released only three years after the original; so it's obviously wasn't that hard of a problem to add them into the design) This machine is capable of fighting at nearly any range for protracted periods of time without compromising its protection or speed. It's no Warhammer IIC, but it'd be a fine compliment to any Clan Star that includes them. Second possibility: If one doesn't like the Jump Jets from option 1, then drop them for a Targeting Computer, upgrade the C-Flamers/ER-SLs to a trio of Small Pulse Lasers and add either a half-ton of ATM ammo or a Light Active Probe, or shave a half ton of armor off and add another double heat sink back (bringing the total up to 16) You can't Alpha Strike without generating some net heat, but you can fire your main weaponry safely until you close the distance to use the Small Pulse Lasers.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
A ER Large Pulse Laser version would be nasty.
@voidofhope62592 ай бұрын
I love these videos. The history of it all is something I get lost in every time.
@jasonhenninger822011 ай бұрын
IIC 3 (Nostalgia build)- Keep 350xl add Ferro & Endo, 4 JJ. RA - ER PPC, LA - 2 AP Gauss (1t A), RT LRM20+Artemis (3t A), CT - SRM6 Streak (1t A), LT - 3 ER Med Lasers, ECM, L-AMS. Max armor and fill DHS.
@MechanicalFrog11 ай бұрын
That would be fun at all ranges.
@StarJudgeGaming Жыл бұрын
Yeah that Mech was news to me. I love the TBolt, so finding there's a IIC is fun. The SLRM15 is an odd choice, but of course can act like a shotgun direct fire for crit seeking with the ER M lasers once the insane hole punching has had a go. I'd definitely make it a reg Clan LRM 15 for those ++DHS.
@tripwire31 Жыл бұрын
That's because it's a Dark Age mech, not many bother looking to that era.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
It's fun to be able to help people discover these gems.
@imasspeons Жыл бұрын
I'd also rip out the SLRM for an LRM15 and throw the saved tonnage into DHS/armour.
@DairXV Жыл бұрын
I'd drop one of the ER Medium lasers, change the streak LRM to a regular LRM, and change the heavy lasers to ER Large Lasers. Then I'd make sure there is plenty of heat sinks and ammo. I do like Streak LRMs for mech designs that don't involve more than 15 double heat sinks to keep the thing relatively cool, as they can be great crit seekers on battered mechs. It also helps for times when ammo supplies can be a bit thin. I wouldn't trade all LRM launchers for streak LRM launchers, but they do add a nice crit seeker to a heavy penetration weapon like a Gauss.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
That could work.
@DairXV Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog So decided to do a quick build in Megamek. Slightly lower BV, but 4 tons of LRM ammo means it'll be in the fight for a good long while. The heat generated is 43 points, and the sink is 38. So an Alpha does five over, making volley fire an easy option. It also gets an extra ER Small Laser. I suppose you could go with three tons of ammo and keep the ER Medium Laser, but then the mech starts getting toastier than my run ins with Plasma weapons makes me comfortable with.
@Alverant Жыл бұрын
I would keep any ammo out of the CT. In HBS Battletech half the Thunderbolts I destroy are from ammo explosions. Not being familiar with current Battetech, I would rebuild the Thunderbolt to put the ammo in the same torso as the missile launcher then use clan versions of the existing weapons. If possible, use Endosteel and fero fiberous armor. Then split any tonnage saved between more armor and more heat sinks.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Thankfully, the clan mechs come with CASE so the ammo explosions aren't too scary.
@elchjol27772 ай бұрын
Ah yes ammo next to the reactor....
@chrissegee Жыл бұрын
I love this mech and i do make some changes, Streak LRM is terrible so i “ downgrade”to an ATM 9 with HE and ER ammo , drop one of the heavy lasers for more heat sinks and a targeting computer with accuracy and heat modules. This beast runs relatively cool and hits like a bus. Especially in the mid range where i can accurately alpha strike every once and awhile and a second variant that does all that and replaces all the er mediums with small pulse lasers if i am expecting Power armor, infantry or vehicles
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
The ATM9 would be nice.
@brianthurlow1067 Жыл бұрын
This is probably one of the only IIC mechs where I would rather have the IS original, especially given the price in and out of universe. That might be my bias showing though considering how much I love the original Tbolt.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
It is difficult to beat the utility and look of the original Thunderbolt.
@TAVAAR7 Жыл бұрын
I can't think of a single mech that utilizes heavy lasers (of any size or "improved") that I dont immediately say "......but pulse....you have F-ing clan pulse." And if I wanted/needed the single location damage output theres cGuass or cER PPC without the explode and/or to hit penalty, better damage per heat too.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Yeah you're preaching to the choir on pulse lasers.
@SHDW-nf2ki5 ай бұрын
I think it was you? who said that the Thunderbolt is like if people were still walking around in current year with flint lock pistols. The IIC Thunderbolt is like if H&K decided to make their next rifle with an underslung flint lock, and its AWESOME.
@MechanicalFrog5 ай бұрын
I don't think that was me, but I would like a flintlock pistol.
@haileysaint544310 ай бұрын
I took the Thunderbolt IIC 2 as the basis for my Thunderbolt IIC ISM. I fluff it as being developed by the Scorpion Empire in 3152. It upgrades to a Clan XL engine, and carries an IS Plasma Rifle/w 3 tons of ammo in the left arm, and a Clan ER Large Pulse Laser. A Watchdog CEWS is carried in the CT, with 3 Clan ER Medium Lasers in the right torso, with a Clan ATM-6/w 3 tons of ammo in the right torso. It retains the jump jets, Ferro Fibrous armor, standard chassis, and H-D gyro of the IIC 2.
@MechanicalFrog10 ай бұрын
Nice. We need more Scorpion Empire mechs.
@kierdalemodels Жыл бұрын
I didn’t know about this mech! Those crazy Clanners’ll make a IIC of anything!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Wonders never cease.
@MrFleem Жыл бұрын
As popular and widespread as the old Thunderbolt was, I'm surprised there wasn't a IIC from before the omnimechs.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Hard to improve upon near perfection.
@thecuriousanthropologist Жыл бұрын
I find this to be a great design. However, I would replace the Streak LRM15 for a normal Clan LRM15 and use the saved weight for more heat sinks. That would hit just right imo.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Agreed.
@Brigand231 Жыл бұрын
An interesting design process, I've never encountered one.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Hopefully not lost to history.
@steffangordon6444 Жыл бұрын
There’s a record sheet for the IIC 2 (and some other Mechs) in the downloads section of Iron Wind Metals website.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Sweet. I'll check it out. Thanks!
@robrib2682 Жыл бұрын
I didn't know this existed, but am unsurprised. Also how did the clanners make a thunderbolt look even chonkier without going full cube?
@Nikotheos Жыл бұрын
Thicbolt
@robrib2682 Жыл бұрын
@@Nikotheos Thiccbolt IIC
@madcat35254 ай бұрын
Great video! I like to see a Catapult k2 version of the Archer. Looking forward to more videos.
@lukedudley5030 Жыл бұрын
Another awesome vid :-) this is another IIC I didn't know existed but always thought one should...I'm inner sphere forever so my ignorance on clan mechs is vast lol...the thunderbolt is such a good frontline mech it deserved a IIC improvement to be fair :-)
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
In the IlClan era, it's wild so... maybe there will be more IICs and other 2nd line Clan mechs around.
@greenbriar07 Жыл бұрын
I'm currently using an up-armored Thunderbolt in HBS with no barrel o' bees on the shoulder, so I'd field the laser lightshow version II for sure. If one miraculously found its way this far out into the periphery intact, that is.😅
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Visit Sudeten, I suppose...
@greenbriar07 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog Walp, guess it's time to pack my bags for a galactic road trip! 💫
@TheStraycat74 Жыл бұрын
Any day Froggy puts out a video makes the world a slightly better place
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Trying.
@Direfloof Жыл бұрын
*Thunderbolt IIC sits down next to Summoner on the first day of school* Summoner: … Thunderbolt IIC: … Summoner: I like your backpack.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Love at first sight.
@Stormbreaker613UA Жыл бұрын
My take on Thunderbolt IIC: Drop Lrm or switch it to Streak SRM6, Drop Heavy Lasers to ER LL - fill rest of the tonnage with Streak SRM ammo (2-3 tons should be OK) and DHS + Ferro Armour For Extra Weight saving and more armor + ECM. Should be Very Cold enough To alpha strike several times or so. + You can Cover All ranges: ER LL For long, Rest is Medium - Close Range. (With Endo steel we can put even more stuff, but as I understand correctly clan Tbolt don't have it)
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
A Streak SRM-6 would be solid as well. Good thinking.
@nukenuked5749 Жыл бұрын
sweet mate more 2C content and i just got home something good to watch wile im sick in bed thank heaps frog
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Huzzah! Enjoy!
@nukenuked5749 Жыл бұрын
oh yes mate i did thank you again mate @@MechanicalFrog
@sablevo Жыл бұрын
Looks like the SLRM-15 was taken off spares for Summoner-Ts and the IHLLs from Hellbringer-Gs. I agree the SLRM-15 is too much. For the tonnage dedicated to it, a standard LRM-15 or 20 with FCS would work better. Also Hawkeye 58 TTS and Model J-D 067 comm system are both from Summoner. Forging Omni H24 is from Hellbringer.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Aff.
@Star-qc4br Жыл бұрын
I never even knew the Thunderbolt received the 2C treatment! It doesn't look too bad...as long as the heat issue gets addressed. Maybe lose the LRM15 for something a bit smaller and use the saved space for heat sinks? As much as I like powerful energy weapons, sporting lasers that both send your heat through the roof as well as explode when things don't go their way doesn't really intrigue me. What's wrong with good old, tried-and-true ER large lasers or large pulse lasers? Keep 'em comin', Frog!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
And now you know... and you need one...
@Star-qc4br Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog Well...um...yeah... I think I do. WOW! I thought I was hiding it better than that!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
*nod*
@michaelrossel7339 Жыл бұрын
I didn't know it existed and now I want it as a miniature!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
I hope we get one and an IlClan update on its availability. It's one of those mechs that could be picked up by the Hells Horses or Bears.
@thunderK5 Жыл бұрын
The economics lesson was welcome and needed to explain the design.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Fun to learn something from time to time. :D
@sebastiang.5032 Жыл бұрын
I'd be so cool if Catalyst'd grant us a new mini of this bad boi.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
That would be cool.
@GrozaMariposa Жыл бұрын
I got an idea. Replace the Streak LRM with two LRM 5's. Add Modular Armor on all forward torsos and (if possible) arms. Take the Heavy Large Lasers and make them ER Large Lasers, upgrade the Medium Lasers to Heavy Mediums. I don't know if this is possible to make stat wise but my reasoning for this build is to make it a durable creeper mech. Eventually you will be a big problem up close, but if you get targeted while closing the distance then any damage taken can be mitigated. Even if adding the Modular Armor isn't possible I'd try and add MASC.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
That would be an interesting refit. Especially with the MASC.
@therakshasan8547 Жыл бұрын
I am surprised that the Multi Mission Launchers are not more common. 1 launcher firing Long & Short range missiles is better weight management than dedicated launchers .
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
So many options out there for missiles in the later time periods.
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
I mean, Clan LRM has no minimum range, so you can use it for short range shotgunning or long range indirect fire. You don't even need to swap ammo for that trick. Standard works for both!
@weldonwin Жыл бұрын
Jade Falcons: How hard can economics be? Clan Sea Fox: *(Laughing Hard)*
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Sea Fox benefits from magical economics energy where you have infinite resources and construction capacity.
@weldonwin Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog I thought it was simply that Seafox has the merchant caste in charge, who actually understand how economics work, rather than Jade Falcon, where its the Warriors in charge, who only understand how to beat things to death with their own limbs. As Professor Tex put it, the Clans are generally not led by smart people, just strong ones.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
SeaFox benefits from that economic experience and the economic form of plot armor that Clan Wolf has for fighting battles. They magically have whatever they need wherever they need it, and produce almost all the clan mechs being made in the Inner Sphere right now.
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
Don't knock the Falcons entirely. They may be bad at production, but their bankers are an economic pillar that keeps them around.
@weldonwin Жыл бұрын
@@bthsr7113 Oh, I am aware of the Falcon Bankers, to the point there is a popular saying among the clans "As Sharp As The Talons of a Falcon Banker." But those bankers, however clever and ruthless, serve at the behest of a system where the only qualification for leadership, is that you are better at killing. Thus, the Clans will always be hobbled when it comes to governance and economics, because they are ruled by those who have spent their entire lives from the moment they were born, training to fight and nothing else.
@ncemt8 күн бұрын
I'd tweak it with 2 LPLs in place of the Heavy Large Lasers. Drop the Streak LRM for an LRM 15 with Artemis IV, change to 10 tons of FF armor, and add the remaining tonnage in Double Heatsinks. Keep the ERmls.
@darylmolinejr.6166 Жыл бұрын
Let's see, swap the IHL for L Pulse, swap AR to 11t FF, drop one er medium, switch streak 15 for ATM 6 with 1.5t ammo, add an ecm suite, and add a targetting computer. Max damage is 52 at range, AR is slightly higher and backed by ecm, accurate as all get out, and your arms don't blow up.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Good plan.
@lexington476 Жыл бұрын
Oh its getting deeper and deeper 😀. Never even heard of this one 🙂. Thanks for doing all the IICs, not really any battletech KZbinrs do them. Are you going to do the regular Clan second line mechs after the IICs?
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Probably. The Fire Falcon is about 25% complete.
@lexington476 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog cool. The second liners are not covered a lot either 🙂.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
I'd like to think I can offer a good unique view on the clan mechs as many other YT'ers are more IS-fans.
@meshuggahshirt11 ай бұрын
The Thunderbolt IIC, or, as we like to call it, "the Summoner we have at home"
@MechanicalFrog11 ай бұрын
Sounds good to me.
@ChaosTicket Жыл бұрын
Post-Clan Invasion battlemech designs vary so wildy. The new IIC designs The Summoner was Clan Jade Falcon's favorite mech before and during the invasion. Its a very solid, but expensive design. Its arguable inspiration, the Thunderbolt heavy mech, is a solid design with some sources saying it was "the first heavy battlemech". The Thunderbolt IIC uses a high power Extralight Engine which raises its cost to be greater than some entire mechs, almost the cost of a brand new Summoner heavy omnimech. I don't really understand the point of it. It seems to have designed without a real goal in a unit. Its Streak Long Range Missile launcher is heavy and cannot be used for indirect fire. Its Improved Heavy Large Lasers are only medium range and very heavy inefficient. Its best weapons are the Extended Range Medium Lasers, but those seem to be token secondary weapons. The best I can come up with is that its a slightly cheaper Summoner, made for Clan Mechwarriors who can't think of new tactics. Its fast, its strong, it shuts down and/or explodes quickly.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Well, like I covered in the video, they were trying to make do with what they had available.
@ChaosTicket Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog That excuse never really flies with me because I know that the Engine makes up the majority of a battlemechs cost. An Extralight Engine is more costly than several battlemechs combined. The Thunderbolt IIC-2 is the better idea. It uses a less powerful, but mech cheaper engine. Even that has an oddly expensive Heavy Duty Gyro. You could make 3-4 Thunderbolt Cs for the cost of one Thunderbolt IIC. Of course poor strategy and planning is the Clans' trademark.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
A lot of the newer mechs, Dark age and forward, suffer from the, "We have to use this new technology" virus. Things like weird armor and the heavy duty gyro when it really isn't needed or even make sense.
@KnightsofTitan Жыл бұрын
There is an official thunderbolt iic 2 record sheet. Its on iron wind metals download page only
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Good to know.
@spencerjones841 Жыл бұрын
Ah the clanners. A society that by all rights should suffer from gurellia o clock far far worse than the capellans or Combine but plot armor demands they don't
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Somehow, Clan Wolf just magically works... and SeaFox has infinite resources and transportation.
@spencerjones841 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog thankfully they haven't yet cracked how to spawn in warships and/or shipyards or the inner sphere would be truly doomed.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
"soon."
@SeismicWolf Жыл бұрын
Never Knew about a IIC version of it. Was not a fan of the original Thunderbolt, It really needed Case. I cannot count the number of times I encountered it in the HB Battletech Game. shot a LRM 10 at a fresh one and just read (Ammo Explosion)(Ammo Explosion)(Ammo Explosion) and watch it fall over.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
It's a great heavy, but yes CASE would be nice.
@justincase9282 Жыл бұрын
I would just swap the IHLL with more conventional ERLL. A little FF and a pair of extra sinks, and you are good to go. Much like my cluster of Ironhold BA, my Tbolt IIC is in Ghost bear colors.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Yeah, it's an easy fix.
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
Don't forget to swap to standard clan LRM pod.
@sim.frischh9781 Жыл бұрын
I work as an accountant, so economics lessons are no challenge to me. In fact, by now everybody should know just HOW bad command economy is. Almost a full century of Communism has proven that extensively. Even when usually free market nations go command economy temporarily due to war or such, it´s usually a nightmare. THIS mech, however is HOT, one better never fires more than one of the Heavies plus the 3 ER mediums. I knew it exists, but i was not aware of its background story or its current issues, like the Jade Falcons being pretty much gone.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
One would only have to point at the Federal order to produce ventilators as an example. By Summer of 2020 we understood ventilators were terrible but by that point, companies across the US were making them. Thousands ended up in surplus or dumped entirely.
@sim.frischh9781 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog I didn´t want to bring up memories to the whole Beerus thing, but yes, that´s a great example.
@RobertWilke Жыл бұрын
I can see the reasoning for the Streak LRM 15 with the rile this mech is to have. That said it's still a bad design choice. Again as you mentioned take that out for a standard clan LRM 15, add some more heat sinks maybe a targeting computer and this thing becomes a Monster.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Agreed. It has lots of potential with just a few slight tweaks.
@anselmoffrisia2930 Жыл бұрын
Hey, at least Joe Smith got a proverbial head-pat.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
More than some people get.
@crazytiger800 Жыл бұрын
Ah, the unknown Hasty Ironfoot IIC.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Rompy stompy heatbox.
@WolfHreda6 ай бұрын
I will never understand the Clan obsession with heavy laser technology and putting way too many of them on singular platforms. Follow the Thunderbolt's original design ethos: One big laser in the arm, three smaller lasers in a torso, big can of missiles on the shoulder. Use the remaining weight for extra heatsinks so you can fire the big one every turn if necessary. This stupid thing produces more heat than a Stalker.
@MechanicalFrog6 ай бұрын
I'm definitely not a heavy laser guy...
@beskar66 Жыл бұрын
Descending upon a thunderclap and striking like thunder itself
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Hitting hard and with plenty of downtime as you wait for the mech to cool down. Maybe take up knitting or Sudoku.
@cmdrhatchy9611 Жыл бұрын
I did not know it existed!
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
And now you can look back on this as the day that your entire world changed. It's morning in the Inner Sphere!
@jefffreese947 Жыл бұрын
Love almost all the IIC designs, but the base variant is marginal IMO because I don't like the Streak LRM. It's a brawler with the iHL's, so I'd drop the ERML's and LRM, and add a 2 ton TC and go with 2x Streak6's and 2 HS. For the v2 I'd drop the HLL, SPL, and a HS for LRM15 with 2 tons ammo.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
That would be a feisty brawler.
@jefffreese947 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog It's interesting - was giving the Brawler version some more thought and realized why I was disappointed. I always want the clan non-Omni designs that use a XL engine to be able to be effective in every situation because you're investing so much in the mech that "strategically" you need a mech that you can use in any role. If this was an omni, I think it would be a good configuration to have available. As a non-omni, I think it would be too limited in from a role perspective where you need to get to 10 hexes to be effective. At that range, you're going to take a beating even if you're likely doing more damage back. And if a clan/IS fight - needing to get to that range to be effective means it's going to be focus fired while most of the other mechs stay at longer ranges. As a comparision, I'd rather go 2x ERPPC, 6xERSL, TC, Streak4, 6x HS if I have 27 tons to play with. You have significantly more ranged firepower, while still dropping the hammer at close range. Might just be part of the clan ERPPC cheese affect!
@ndr2q4 ай бұрын
It's kind of baffling how clan engineers took one of the most solid, well-optimized 3025 designs and made a completely unoptimized mess out of it. It's stronger than the OG Tbolt solely due to the sheer raw power of clan tech, as opposed to adherence to good design principles. Kind of a shame, given the legacy of the original Tbolt.
@scytheseven9173 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the economics lesson lol
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
We can learn something from time to time... :D
@Ironclockwork Жыл бұрын
Remember folks, you do not choose the Thud life. The Thud life chooses you. ;)
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
womp womp.
@AnimeSunglasses6 ай бұрын
4:00 No, actually, as an avid Perun watcher, the econ lesson made me feel quite at home... Really, it just whetted my appetite, do you have more?
@MechanicalFrog6 ай бұрын
There's always more room for micro/macro economics.
@AnimeSunglasses6 ай бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog Damn right!
@wartmcbeighn Жыл бұрын
Never actually used the clan version...but can see a ton of possibilities not "official" that would make this mech a wee bit scarier....not a fan of the streak srm15, just no
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Agreed.
@MrHeadphones642 ай бұрын
How do we improve the thunderbolt? Make it squarer
@mikavanpolen8418 Жыл бұрын
The Thunderbolt is my favourite heavy, only closely followed by the Guillotine. Day 3 of requesting Why Do We Love The Thug
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Imagining the Thug IIC...
@Arron-S Жыл бұрын
We have summoner at home....
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Aww...
@gregkun1 Жыл бұрын
I knew about the Thunderbolt IIC and it didn't appeal to me. I tried to modify it to be a suddo Awesome. 3 ER-PPC's 1 in LA, 2 in LT with LRM 10 (1ton ammo)in RT, TAG in the RA, and Targeting Comp in RT. 24 [48] DHS Heat: 51/48 Standard Structure and Armor 8.5 tons. 280 XL engine Movement: 4/6. Once I got my Marauder IIC (Foxburn) I stripped the ER-PPCs, and DHS, and sold the rest.
@turk88 Жыл бұрын
2 ER LLs, 3 MPLs , Clan ATM
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Solid.
@kaisiegfried425 Жыл бұрын
Holly Raptor Jesus, What is it with Clan Technicians and there need to creat completly oversized Dissco ovens, I mean that Monster could could heat a hole Hamlet after an Alpha strike in Both variants.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Overconfidence, perhaps... Maybe a lack of concern for a second turn.
@kaisiegfried425 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog Yeah maybe or its just that every Solama Mechwarrior lives the Kurgan live kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6nWoH2DbZ5pnK8
@Dang_Near_Fed_Up Жыл бұрын
A good chassis but a total mess with the original weapons load out. If ever there was a mech that would make you scratch your head asking "What were they thinking?" this is it. Replace the heavy lasers with ER or Pulse, replace the Streak 15 with 2 normal LRM 15's and you are on your way to a viable load out and a good long range support mech.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Yeah, the only explanation requires the lore to justify it. They used what they had on hand.
@Dang_Near_Fed_Up Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog I usually refer to messed up load outs like this as Nepotism builds, because them being designed by someone hired because of 'family' links within the company is the only thing that made sense to me. Since they obviously have no idea what they are doing.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
I kind of like the fact that mechs aren't always min/maxed and they sometimes have to use whatever weapons they have on hand. @@Dang_Near_Fed_Up
@Dang_Near_Fed_Up Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog Min / Max is one thing, I do agree on with you on this. But common sense in design is another. At least have a design purpose in mind when you make a mech is what I am saying. Too often I see trash thrown together for no other reason than to fill out a book, or put new 'toys' on the market.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
Fair.@@Dang_Near_Fed_Up
@matthewpena3932 Жыл бұрын
Nice a good way to start the day. Now does the streak lrm 15 also have no minimum range like other clan lrms?
@TehSquare Жыл бұрын
No minimum range but Streak LRMs are incapable of indirect fire like standard LRMs can.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
No min range but twice as heavy as a standard LRM and no indirect fire.
@RecklessFables Жыл бұрын
And the Hunchback IIC gets a bad rep... LOL
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
I would take a Thunderbolt IIC over a Hunchback IIC any day.
@stevekarns84167 ай бұрын
This here really is a bit of an oddball, in that it is a "IIC" in name but not in conception. Honestly this is the exact opposite of a IIC for the amount of dedicated design work went into overhauls like the Warhammer, Marauder, Clint, etc. Hammering out how to make the original machine well-balanced while not losing its original intended function. Moreover, given its origins... This isn't something fixing supply chain snarls, it's *exacerbating* them. You build this machine because all these parts are piling up in one place, alright that makes sense. Problem. For every one Thunderbolt IIC built that's three Omnimechs/2nd Lines at a different factory that are missing *their* parts and cannot be completed, because the dedicated equipment has all of the sudden taken a 90° turn and ended up somewhere completely different. Sure you get one usable mech rather than three unfinished mechs because of things getting lost between point A and point B... But you still have three unfinished mechs, which are now even further delayed as the equipment slapped into the Thud needs to be replaced.
@MechanicalFrog7 ай бұрын
Life is full of little challenges.
@stevekarns84167 ай бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog True enough. Suppose it might be an indicator of Jade Falcon's backslide into Malvina Hazen's ideology and the "realities" inherent in the Clan "Mongol Doctrine". Don't think about the reasons mechs aren't rolling off the lines, just get mechs, any mechs, rolling off the lines.
@joshuamidgette4846 Жыл бұрын
Honestly, a Streak SRM 15 makes far more sense.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
A Streak SRM15 would be horrifying.
@joshuamidgette4846 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog I got a better idea Streak MML 15 amd Streak MML 30.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
O_o
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
While we're on this nonsense, Streak MRM40.
@JosephMitchell-zw3db3 ай бұрын
Clan guns kick but
@JosephMitchell-zw3db3 ай бұрын
Love it and no never know that ty
@walt_man3 ай бұрын
Uhm.. are Heat Exchangers a thing?
@pete7872 Жыл бұрын
\o/
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
O_o
@tenchraven6 ай бұрын
As much as I love a Thunderbolt, this thing is prime Clan- irrational, unsustainable, and over priced. I know it's supposed to be "use what we have". Streak LRMs are useful, but in that mounting if it's a direct fire I'm a billionare. Either the Falcons have reduced a T-bolt to hands on knees twerking when it fires it's long range weapons, or it's an air defense mount. Either way, I'm embarrassed for it.
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
Streak LRM AND heavy lasers? Hard pass! Though I do like the lore of this being a symptom treating adaptation in the face of the Inner Sphere naturally not accepting the Falcon ways. Especially since many of them would have living memory of better days under Lyran money making.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
I dig that it has a good story with it and isn't just some rando thing explained away as a Sea Fox moneymaking scheme.
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog I don't entirely mind Sea Fox exporting clan designs to the Sphere, but I think it would be better for them to buy up overlooked IIC and other second line mech licenses than say... routinely selling other clans' iconic mainline designs.
@MechanicalFrog Жыл бұрын
The only issue I have is that SeaFox makes 90% of the clan mechs outside of the homeworlds. If CGL wants to do Clan-themed box sets for the IlClan era, other factions are going to need some. @@bthsr7113
@bthsr7113 Жыл бұрын
@@MechanicalFrog Fair. They could stand to at least act as middle men more. Also, I have wondered if the Lyrans should reach out to the Foxes to build themselves back up with a new partnership.
@Geeko170 Жыл бұрын
I have not used a Thud IIC and I refuse to use one. It is just so ugly. 😭