Why do you learn KENJUTSU?

[@e.e.8589]

The thing is: good footwork and timing will help you in every martial art.

[@ColdNapalm42]

It's almost like it's the basis of every martial arts or something....

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

People keep forgetting that cutting mats and straw is just another training method to hone your edge alignment, so your attack on a live opponent would not be with bad edge alignment or worse, with the flat. Nothing more nothing less, yet so many schools focused their time to train how to cut as much mats as possible with big swings that rarely used against a live opponent. The goal is to always be able to cut mats with the techniques that you used in sparring

[@jestfullgremblim8002]

Exactly :'(

[@Ianmar1]

There is a fantastic article on kenshi247: "Thoughts on Tameshigiri from Famous Swordsmen" with accounts from two of the fathers of kendo. The idea that it should be performed outside of kata is an almost meaningless one.

[@theparadoxicaltouristtrave9320]

Also I would assume that it gives some sense of distance.

[@ColdNapalm42]

I always practice doing cuts as I would swing a sword in a sparring match...including quick wrist cuts. It's always a challenge to try to get that edge alignment just right to cut as deep as possible with those cuts.

[@3nertia]

It also serves another purpose - to make sure your blade is properly sharp and properly maintained

[@arealdolphin1904]

As someone who has trained in kendo for nearly 2 years now, this video was very eye-opening. Even if the kendoka's sparring seemed very rigid compared to their kenjutsu buddy, they still made some very nice hits (especially the do at the end). Thanks for this video as always!!

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Still, kendoka when moving into free sparring would have alot of trouble because they developed their own blindspots. Since the only available targets are men do kote throat, it's very easy to snipe them at places that they are not familiar with like the legs, shoulders, biceps or low thrust to targets lower than the chest.

[@Ianmar1]

This video does not showcase anyone who studied kenjutsu, both kenshi are kendoka.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

@@Ianmar1 and there are also videos of this very same kendoka fence with a Katori Shinto kenjutsu practitioner

[@Ianmar1]

@@jaketheasianguy3307 I believe that the original post was referring to Hogu Yeom as "kenjutsu buddy" rather than Blademan B.

[@Corey91666]

Not really. Not attacking legs or upper arms doesnt mean you let someone move in to hit them. If you can hit my arms you could probably hit something else too. Also hitting legs requires you to go in very deep. Striking you from above isnt that difficult at that Point. I did sparring against naginataka and defending your legs against them is alot harder.

[@xXZaxoflameXx]

Another great video. I agree with everything said. Kendokas can also switch over to HEMA with a little bit of practice because the true fundamentals (distance, timing, tactical thinking, etc) are the same, you just apply them a little differently for the different weapon.

[@richard6133]

This is the concept of universal principles. The nuances change with the weapons, schools, and individuals, but the most basic underlying fundamentals all operate on these universal principles. The same applies when comparing the sport/peacetime version of a martial art, vs. the practical/wartime version. They're not going to be a perfect 1:1 comparison, but the overlap might be greatly significant. A person who finely hones their abilities through diligent practice with the sport/peacetime version, would be a very dangerous opponent in the practical/wartime environment, *as long as* they pay close attention to the special considerations of how they're different. Conversely, someone who is from the practical/wartime environment would probably place very well in a sport contest, so long as they are paying close attention to the rules that constrain the situation to a contest. A fist. A stick. A blade. A firearm. A fighter jet. An ICBM. Measure, timing, and your hands knowing accurately what to do, so that your brain can focus on the first two. Practice, practice, practice.

[@KatonRyu]

I guess martial arts elitism happens everywhere, with people saying their preferred style is more 'real' than another one. In the end, though, I think it all comes down to how you apply the things you've been taught by your chosen art. Timing and distance are going to keep you alive, while proper technique helps you to ensure that when you DO choose to attack, it will properly end the battle. The sport built around the art will obviously have a ruleset that will necessarily cause a match to be different from a real fight, and that's fine. I sometimes feel like saying things like 'kendo isn't real swordsmanship' is akin to saying that boxing isn't real fighting, because they're only allowed to punch. That might be true, but a boxer's sense of distance and timing has been honed by sparring, and I wouldn't like to engage a well-trained boxer in a real fight, despite practicing krav maga myself, which is concerned more with specific techniques than being the best possible fighter and quite literally having no rules, being meant to keep yourself safe in a real fight, and to end it quickly if at all possible. For the same reason, I don't like it when HEMA practitioners say that Olympic fencing has nothing to with swordsmanship. The distance, timing, and footwork on epee are extremely solid foundations, and the entire idea behind the right-of-way rules in foil and sabre is to prioritize your own safety instead of blindly counterattacking. The only reason Olympic fencers go in aggressively is because it's a sport and they won't get hurt anyway, but that doesn't mean they'd be incapable of wielding a smallsword or rapier for real, even though those are heavier weapons.

[@petrstejskal3724]

Great video. I totally agree. Thank you very much for your work. What you do for Kendo is very, very important.

[@SamaelVR]

Narrator: _calm explanations_ Kenjutsu in the video: AAAAAAAAAAAH EEEEEEEEEEEY RAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[@VTPSTTU]

Thanks for the video! These are always interesting.

[@jhlmcportfolio]

Greetings from the US! I don't fence Kendo, but I do traditional French fencing. Still, I get a lot of value from watching your channel and this video in particular because, in some ways, I feel like we're in the same boat. We fence with Foil, Epee, and Sabre. These are considered to be inferior sport weapons by some HEMA fencers who think that, because our weapons don't resemble battlefield weapons, there is no martial benefit from using them, and therefore not a valid way to fence. This couldn't be further from the truth. We also fence with a sense of distance, timing, and control. Anyway, I really enjoy your videos and how you're able to do your own thing without being shaken by the dogmas of more ignorant fencers, while also doing a great job celebrating those who come from different traditions. Keep doing what you're doing and take care! :)

[@selectyourvector9656]

Hi (Also from US)! HEMA practitioner here. I too watch a lot of this channel and I can tell you that the HEMA fencers who do not think FIE fencing has any martial benefit or is not valid have not trained or studied enough to know what they are talking about. HEMA also has to be sportified for safety, tournaments, gear, etc. but includes/places more of a precedent on historical techniques or grappling, different weapons, and traditions. This allows for a broader and somewhat more realistic approach to sword fighting and historical combat throughout Europe, but in no way should any HEMA fencer feel they are superior I'm sorry some of us have put you down. I for one just bought a foil myself and I'm attempting to learn.

[@jhlmcportfolio]

@selectyourvector9656 Thanks for the encouragement! I've grown a lot in my journey since making my previous comment. I teach foil and have been for a few years. I think I've shaken most of the insecurity I've felt. Let me know if you have any questions about learning Foil. I recommend books by Nick Evangelista. He's been my teacher, and his life points to the strength of his journey.

[@jhlmcportfolio]

And maybe I can ask you about some of your HEMA expierences.

[@selectyourvector9656]

@@jhlmcportfolio Ooh boy the insecurity can be real, but I'm glad to hear you're teaching and "fighting the good fight" so to speak. There is a lot of misinformation about combat and especially about weaponized combat due in part to a lot of factors as I'm sure you are well aware. It is sad to me that although things such as Kendo, Boxing, or BJJ might be more limited in its martial scope, that people feel that it is somehow inferior (typically to the art they themselves practice imagine that). Anyways as I'm sure you've come to realize as well that to look at something like fencing, ninjutsu, iado, or HEMA and say "That's all there is to swordfighting, this is the CORRECT interpretation/tradition" is grossly ignorant and as a HEMA member I apologize for any grief. I'll check out those books if I get a chance thanks! I'm not sure how much my form, distance, and timing is going to feel compared to what I'm used to with saber or rapier, but I can say the lighter weight is throwing off my accuracy with test thrusts since I can't let the weapon "guide itself" as easily. Have any good words of wisdom for adjusting to a foil? Mine has a french grip since that felt more like what I'm used to handling.

[@jhlmcportfolio]

@selectyourvector9656 French fencing is what I practice. There can be several reasons. Are you gripping too tightly? Are you holding the foil incorrectly? Are you throwing your back arm in such a way that it is messing up your trajectory? Does the set on your blade need adjustment? What position is your hand in when you attack? Pronation (palm down) is ideal for strength and low line attacks, but Supination reduces your range of motion to your fingers, which will help stabilize your attacks (provided you aren't squeezing).

[@winfehler]

Been practicing Kenjutsu, Iaido and Jodo for almost 10 years now, including regular sparring with different weapons (in and out of Bogu). You bring up exactly the same points I would in this regard; especially referring to the sense of distance and timing and the high stakes involved if one were to cross real swords (a less than ideal cut would most likel be one’s last mistake). What I could gather from sparring with Kendoka is that they (usually) are _vicious_ on the attack, but are often held back by having drilled a limited set of techniques (due to the target point system in Kendo). However they are usually quick to adapt to changing circumstances (like you did over the course of the video; those overhead block-and-counter techniques and Do strikes are a delight to watch). “Kendo can’t do Kenjutsu” is most certainly a wrong claim to make.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Yes, they're still very strong when going for offense in free sparring environment but defense wise, it will take some time to adapt tho, since the only available targets to kendoka are men do kote throat. Very easy to attack them at targets they are not familiar with like legs, biceps, shoulder, low thrust at places lower than the chest....

[@CrissandyOng]

I love your videos and I agree with you, I hope I can start learning kenjutsu soon

[@Druid_Ignacy]

Very educational, simple summary of martial arts dilemma from combat point of view. For anyone indecisive wether they should do forms, sharp weapon cutting or fencing against partner / enemy, answer is simple: every one of this things carry a value, does not encourage or force to call itself better than the others, and if you only want, you can do all of it. I do that and recommend that! :)

[@greyclaa]

Awesome seeing the strategies in action!

[@lucianobeludru1975]

Good mental, good skill.... That's the key

[@tuerkefechi]

Excellent video and you guys doing it right. kendo has enough real swordsmanship in it still to adapt to the use of the katana. The training is physically and mentally optimized and prepares very good for combat. My 10 years of Kendo with 1st Dan degree did help me a lot to understand and practice other martial arts, especially with weapons. My own experiments with Gekiken (following the videos of the Tennen Rishin Ryu mostly) other koryu Kenjutsu schools and Gunto-Jutsu aka karate kendo aka Japanese military Sabre fencing showed me, that my kendo base is more than enough to get into this and use it with effect.

[@Dwinna1]

Man that Yeom guy from the Hogu couple is a real Jack of all trades. I am really glad that you all provide us with such fun and educational content

[@-RONNIE]

Thank you for sharing this with us

[@kraptastic333]

Thank you for the continued production of high quality videos of Japanese martial arts. My favorite scene, it was actually the end of the video with the happy faces. Please continue and let us know how to donate. If there are any videos of bikenjutsu, I know there is a lot of demand, and I would appreciate seeing the interpretation of the video creator. Thank you!

[@guyblew1733]

Cutting mates and straw is of see that ones swings have power and Precision e.g. cutting with right part of the blade.

[@michaelholt8590]

As someone who has trained in martial arts for decades but never trained in weapons. It is amazing to me how the same principles apply.

[@AJBernard]

Thank you. I study Iaido, but my goal is to learn actual swordsmanship. I will look for a way to study Kenjutsu next.

[@Ianmar1]

Iaido is actual swordsmanship. The ZNKR kata were introduced in 1969 to suppliment the kendo curriculum by sampling from popular ryuha of the day, notably Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu, Muso Shinden Ryu, and Hoki Ryu.

[@cafetenorio]

Thank you, merry Christmas!

[@johncartwright8154]

We have kendoka members in the Iaido dojo I belong to here in England. They tend to initially have some difficulty cutting through the imaginary opponent executing shomen rather than shomen-uchi.

[@rogerfulgham3941]

Amazing 👍👍💪💪👊👊🥋🥋⚔️⚔️

[@robbabcock_]

Fascinating!

[@Ianmar1]

I love your kendo!

[@kyesickhead7008]

That's what I meant! ♥ ♥ ♥

[@Corellon666]

I´d really like to see more of the longsword and other european swords against the katana or shinai!

[@az-6262]

You guys are improving and improved a lot, can i suggest a video on knife or tanto vs bokken

[@jesse7912]

Great video 👍

[@isaacvictory7993]

Best way to spar is go outside and find two sticks

[@MarshOakDojoTimPruitt]

great, thanks

[@DeadPool5991]

Guys, u need creat the new discipline in the fight world. Like a HEMA, but this is Samurai fighting without Kendo rules.

[@Ianmar1]

You might want to check out Tennen Rishin-ryu and Hokushin itto-ryu (Chiba line) for a more historical sparring experience, or Toyama-ryu for for a more HEMA like approach.

[@DeadPool5991]

@@Ianmar1 Thanks!!!

[@Le_Rappel_des_oiseaux]

Yes, your comments are correct. However, you didn't mention the disadvantages of kendo either. Due to the scoring system, the practitioner of kendo cultivates bad habits in combat, whether it is long moving forward after a blow(Turning your back on the enemy), or exposing the neck to the blow instead of the head so that the "men" does not pass, or using a narrow stance, without proper stability and lateral mobility, the habit of straightening hands (because of which it will not be possible to put all the mass into the blow, + it is dangerous for the joints of the elbows), lack of habit of working with the center of gravity (because speed in kendo is more important than strength). Also, the minuses include the stereotyped behavior and areas of damage, the stereotyped trajectories of the flight of the sword (look at the sparring "HEMA against kendo", for example, not on your channel, but on KZbin). Postscript: I am not a kenjutsu advocate myself. On the contrary, kenjutsu is much worse in this regard, since sparring is the essence of any martial art, therefore only practicing the "kata" is useless. Output. Kendo is a wonderful ticket into the past of the sword tradition of Japan, and has a number of unique and valuable features for a swordsman, such as an excellent training system, and also brings up the best qualities in a student. However, if the goal of learning kendo is not limited to sports achievements, it is worth fighting bad habits. It is also worth noting that kendo is increasingly emasculated in the direction of sports. For example, before there was wrestling, Obi belts were also used for correct breathing, and less time was devoted to breathing exercises themselves.

[@Ianmar1]

It is perhaps better to think of shinai kendo as a gamification of uchikomi keiko (striking practice) rather than a combat simulation, with the kata providing the combat instruction. Running through and showing your back is a bit of a controversial topic: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4WqoKakiLulhs0 It is wrong ... but it teaches good footwork, so we use it for drills thus we have a lot of beginners who think that is what should be done. While the head dodge is stupid as a defensive maneuver, it spoils the quality of the incoming strike. The best strikes should have a feeling of inevitability, inescapability. Changes in the rules allow the jury to rule strikes to the mask or side of the head (slightly off target) as valid if the attacker has broken the defenders posture, unfortunately I do not believe that it will extend much further. The narrow high stance comes directly from itto-ryu, which is really quite old as kenjutsu styles go. It allows one to engage the full power of the calf muscle for explosive lunges (tobikomi). Other footwork is allowed but not typically taught, except for hanmi in the kata, since they are not competitive in the modern ruleset.

[@Le_Rappel_des_oiseaux]

@@Ianmar1 Thanks for the answer. I agree with you.

[@ren7a8ero]

Nice video! IMHO, the "rivalry" about kendo x kenjutsu is very unfortunate. Both sides would learn (or "remember", or even "unlock") much from each other. Kendo had to develop a standard curriculum, but kept the combat. Kenjutsu (in their many ryu-ha) have so much different techs, each developed to the utmost degree in many variations... but few are the ones who spar. And for both, having the best of the two worlds would mean dedicate half of the time for each one. A dilemma. It would be ideal to train both, easier said than done. Even within the same modal, there are regional or "lineage" rivalries, so a good kata for a dojo could be deemed plainly wrong somewhere else, so everything has to be defined by the least common denominator. We can see that as many great martial arts, as karate, judo, taekwondo, got so "simplified" in a professional level. The athletes could perform the beautiful and subtle techs, but it would be incredibly hard to judge... The only way is to keep improving oneself. Again, easier said than done...

[@loxzone1]

I would like to learn this, any places in Cape Town?

[@Max_Yun]

Thank you for your videos! What material your katana made from? Wood? Rubber?

[@weaponism]

It is PU katana🗡️

[@Max_Yun]

@@weaponism what is PU?)

[@Ianmar1]

PU = polyurethane rubber

[@Max_Yun]

thank you!)

[@damnyankee3558]

In my opinion both kenjutsu and Iaijutsu need to be done in this world without swordfights to the death

[@ipdavid1043]

well said

[@lzzbee3273]

Love

[@budo_w]

Are those Cold Steel bokuto?

[@paul-becker]

Could you please tell, where you get the foam Katana?

[@Ianmar1]

It is in the pinned comment here kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKLHooqIjLCdr9U

[@ДмитрийПаладин-ь4щ]

Good)

[@danilojoserengifosulbaran9301]

Does anyone know where in Korea is this school located? I'm travelling there soon and I would like to keep training while there.

[@odalchiszaratutu6793]

wow she beat him so easily, she did like double the amount of hits than him

[@AnananasFanta]

This is Hogu couple but nearly ever we see the woman sparring 😔

[@butcher_0001]

Where can I learn kenjutsu and spar with others?

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Buy swords, safety gears, get your friends and start a group on your own

[@naser3000x]

are all the sword they use always wooden when they are sparing? or is it some sort of dark metal hence the sound when they clash? or is the sounds just an after effect?

[@Ianmar1]

The black swords are polyurethane rubber, the sound effect is added in.

[@DONKMCLEAN]

WHAT ARE THE BLACK SWORDS YOU USE TO MAKE THESE VIDEOS?

[@DONKMCLEAN]

@@YozanMindWorksCT thanks!

[@Ianmar1]

They use polyurethane rubber katana. They have posted purchase links in other videos.

[@DONKMCLEAN]

@@Ianmar1 thanks!

[@Jkayami]

nunca entenderé porque la comunidad de artistas marciales y fans de artes marciales es tan toxica, algunos trataran siempre de menospreciar el trabajo de otros, me he encontrado a muchos con ese argumento de que la esgrima es mejor que el kendo, o que la esgrima española es inferior a la esgrima de x nación, o que el boxeo es mejor que el taekwondo, o que las MMA son mejores que el karate, esta bien que algunas sean superiores a otras en algunos aspectos, pero ¿Por qué querer decir que el entrenamiento de un artista es inútil? ¿Cuál es la necesidad de vomitar bilis para ridiculizar al resto que no hace lo mismo que tu? (Refiriéndome a esos comentarios que solo buscan ofender y no un debate para compartir ideas) Por lo demás, por favor no paren de entrenar y subir videos que son tremendamente enriquecedores Un saludo desde Colombia OSU!

[@nightshadesyrup1624]

Where to buy those training katana

[@nightshadesyrup1624]

@John H Lee thanks for the information

[@Ianmar1]

It is rubber polyurethane, the posted the purchase link in the pinned comment in a previous video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eKLHooqIjLCdr9U

[@belalabusultan5911]

if you train 1 year in Kendo, and then 1 month in Kenjutsu, you'd do much better than someone who trained 1 year in Kenjutsu and then 1 month in Kendo. simply put: Sparring is the most effective form of training.

[@Mephiston1984LoD]

🙂

[@ColdNapalm42]

1) ANY kenjitsu school that does not include sparring is NOT teaching kenjutsu. Which unfortunately is almost ALL of them in the modern era. 2) Kendo is VASTLY superior to learning how to use a sword vs a "kenjitsu" school that does not include sparring. 3) If you REALLY want to learn how to use a katana however, nothing beats an actual kenjitsu school that has sparring in it's curriculum.

[@mekugi]

Positive: He's not wrong. Most kata are training tools. The rest is 'whatever'. That being said: You could fight another kendoka using pool noodles, and it would equally prove nothing (as this does with the play swords). Old schools actually used to compete at the turn of the century, they had their own techniques and strategy. It's not this. Just playing kendo with a sword shaped toy, while it is fun, doesn't make it "kenjutsu." I look forward to your next videos using axe handles and shovels instead of shiniai, to prove you're farmers. 😂 Come to Japan and play with me and some old schools, just picking up a broom handle and saying it's all the same is missing the point. Come learn a school and some 'heiho' for better or worse, if anything you'll have a better perspective.

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

They literally spar with a Katori Shinto Ryu practitioner often, and now with actual steel swords with proper weight and balance, something Koryu folks in Japan can't because of Japan's idiotic weapon law. Anyone can say anything on the internet, but these kendoka fought mixed styles and weapons on regular basis, and they have proof doing it. Can't say the same to you, mate.

[@zatrusofnietzche2281]

Moved to Spain to learn the Rapier ( following Bruce Lees methods) actually ended up learning Tàijíquán but my Katana skills are still very useful. My favourite move is the "mimic or faint / fake attack". Apparently Bruce Lee would step to the left forcing his opponent to change position or to create an opening in their position. This idea came from "Billy the kid" a cowboy 🤠🤔! It most definitely works ! Left hand goes up "open 👀" your opponent can not help but look 👀 ! This is your opening. I keep my distance at just outside sword length. If i am pressured i will increase this distance, giving my opponent the thought that he his safe or i am retreating. When in fact i have a very long side kick and can close the distance very quickly and follow up with "my onslaught of combination moves from multiple directions". I have asked if other Swordsmen would test myself against multiple opponents but for some reason students are reluctant even with padding and one arm tied behind my back 😂🤣. Perhaps this maybe because some kind friends compare me with Musashi 😮😱. I am very competent wielding anything and have become more specialised with duel wielding, or the staff

[@dxcSOUL]

If anyone looked up the history of budo and bushido, they'd realize it was all propaganda by the Japanese emperor.

[@alantheadventurer9552]

If I could add something & I’m happy anyone add on what I say, but Kendo is good enough. (Also have in my I love watching about Olympic fencing, kendo, hema & I started doing kendo myself too) Yes, Kenjutsu is superior to Kendo in swordsmanship. The only possibility benefit I can see in kendo over Kenjutsu is speed in striking, but that’s really it. Kendo is overly simplified & strict in movement & guard I would say however what I see kendo shining in if you will look at it as a stick fight! I know it sounds ridiculous… but let’s be real here, our chance using a sword in these days is very VERY low. However, it doesn’t mean we should neglect knowing how to use a weapon, we humans are made to use weapons more than using our fists or feet. Fists & kicks are more effective on other unarmed people but in these days everyone can easily make everything a weapon. Kendo for me shines in street fights for because it learns you how to effectively & with bravery! It good to make feel comfortable hitting someone with it & being hit. (It will hurt more in real life but you see my point) Of course, you can do the with Kenjutsu with extra steps but what I’m really trying is that Kendo is good enough too! Just add boxing or wrestling with the Kendo or whatever… Because if you’ll get unarmed somehow, better know something else as a backup too 👍🏻

[@alantheadventurer9552]

Same goes with Olympic fencing & Hema! I have a cruel joke that I’m England, the best martial art to know in here is Fencing because almost everyone is caring knifes. As cruel that joke is it also has a meaning behind it. Fencing won’t learn you how to punch but it will learn you fast back & forward footwork & how to calculate distance, from these facts & the obvious fact you know to use a sword (ever foil, epee or saber) you can easily transfer those skills into a pointy stick or better a knife. But here in England. The hooligans who carry knife aren’t that intelligent to figure it out & honestly… without those knifes & their friends they are good as dirt. 😁

[@cptnstylez]

Get a plastic bokken and call it kenjutsu hmmkay....

[@chamamemestre]

There are a lot of valid points here, but as a practioner of Kendo, Iaido and Jodo, Kendo loses to all the other 2 way too easily. With a Shinken you do not spar. You will kill your opponent at the first strike. That is it.

[@Ianmar1]

Jodo as well?

[@iantheduellist]

There's a big problem with Kendo. You are not taught to defend against; thrusts to the torso, cuts to the leg, grappling, hosizontal strikes to the head, and most importantly, the after blow. This is why HEMA and Kenjutsu are martial arts, and Kendo and Olympic "fencing" are sports. They might share a few basics, they might be effective in some situations, but they are fundamentally, incomplete.

[@Ianmar1]

You got a few things wrong, so I will try to itemize: * While thrusts to the torso cannot score ippon, they very much can be used to double out an opponents ippon: "Ippon is not given in the following cases: when both players simultaneously make valid strikes and when one player makes a valid strike but the opponent shows full spirit and proper posture and the tip of his/her shinai is on the front of the chest of the striking player." you are very much expected to defend them. * Cuts to the leg are highly situational since they leave the attackers upper body exposed. Conceptually, you defend such attacks by keeping your distance and cutting the other guy first. This only becomes an issue against naginata kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXy8f6GGmNhladUm44s and for that we have gedan no kamae. * Grappling used to be part of kendo, and still is in special police tournaments: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaSlgniDqtGed68 since most high ranked kendoka thus the governing body for kendo internationally come through or train with the japanese police force, they are aware of this problem thus a stable stance is emphasized during gradings. For anyone who wishes to fill that blindspot there is a complimentary martial art called judo which teaches grappling better than kendo ever did. * The most fundamental drill in kendo is called kirikaeshi kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGepampobK1qZq8 I expect that one would defend horizontal head strikes the same way. * As for defending the afterblow, this is explicitly one of the five conditions for yuko datotsu, a valid strike. In the following clip you see one kendoka strike a beautiful gyaku-dou (cut to the spleen) and just stand there undefended, ippon is awarded to his opponent who strikes the afterblow and retreats to a safe distance. kzbin.infoMRZg9Uqh6R8?feature=share3 * Everyone likes to make this do - jutsu comparison, however kendo has kata which are separate from its sporting component kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2iYf2atbs2soK8 koryu kenjutsu in almost all cases is only kata.

[@iantheduellist]

@@Ianmar1 So basically, Kendo does implement a alot of these concepts and strikes, just that they are not used to often in a competitive enviorment? I can see how most of the things you mentioned are pretty logical, except two. The thrust to the torso and the cut to the leg. The thrust to the torso is a very effective way of stomping a charging opponent who continiues to make cut after another, and if done in the way we see in many thrust based systems, like two handed chinese jian or some styles of longsword, it can be used to both attack and defend in the same tempo. The strike to the leg is one that can be done poorly or correctly. If one does it poorly, as you describe, the upper body is exposed and a counter is guaranteed to land. But if done correctly, by lowering the body by squating on the lunge, and by first doing a feint to the face, the strike to the leg becomes difficult to defend and counter, and should absolutley be counted as a valid hit in any sword martial art. And you are right in the critisim of kenjustsu, although their techniques can be applied to great effect, without sparring, they are worthless. This is why I would like to see kendo and kenjutsu merge a little, since they both have good philosophies to the martial art of swordsmanship.

[@Ianmar1]

@@iantheduellist I had to think over your remarks for some time and I must concede that kendo would be better as a combat sport if we had good way to incorporate stop thrusts and leg cuts as offensive options. I would like to push back a little however. A well known problem with how kendo handles doubles is that it encourages suicidal behaviour. I speculate that none of kendo's ancestors e.g. war kendo -> prewar kendo -> keishi ryu kenjutsu -> gekiken were ever intended to be combat simulations, but rather a gameification of the training exercise uchikomi keiko or striking practice: (earliest example from 1897) kzbin.info/www/bejne/jX-chHd8ZZqhjpI (a more recent example) kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3a8m2ifbbGIiKs where the goal is to execute one's technical fundamentals at high intensity with precision against a resisting opponent, rather than represent shinken shobu. This causes issues when balancing styles which are inherently self sacrificial such as jodan no kamae which trades normal defensive options for speed, reach and surprise. The context of jodan in kenjutsu as I understand it is that the kenshi promises a double kill if their attacker is able to cut them, thus it becomes a game of chicken. In kendo we throw out doubles which renders this game of chicken meaningless whenever two equally suicidal attacks collide; the stop thrust has an even more impressive reach, speed and surprise than anything in the jodan arsenal but perhaps less stopping power in the context of real swords. Between 1979 and 1995 kendo did allow munezuki kzbin.info/www/bejne/pIe6qGdrprRnj5Ym40s a thrust to the ribcage to count for ippon against jodan players, which quickly made the kamae non competitive in a very undesireable way.

[@larrylawnchair5570]

Could you call that HAMA? Historical Asian Martial Arts? :D It's back to the roots, i love it. Please teach me more about it, since in europe there is only kendo or non sparing money interested kenjutsu associations with fake masters.

[@Ianmar1]

They train kendo. There is legitimate kenjutsu in Europe, especially if you live near one of the major cities. You can ask for help finding a dojo on a koryu forum. If you do not have legimate kenjutsu available to you, your best option is learn kenjutsu from kendo (and iaido) as they suggest in this video and join a HEMA longsword group for sparring since they usually seem open to it.

[@larrylawnchair5570]

@@Ianmar1I'm already at two different HEMA groups and we also have katanas but since we do European Martial Arts we are not that used in asian martial arts. Thats why i'm asking. We have to learn it from scratch. There is a kendo group nearby maybe i show over to learn some stepings and stances and adopt them to my fighting style.

[@Ianmar1]

@@larrylawnchair5570 Pay special attention to the kata, that is where the kenjutsu resides. It is better to think of the stuff with the shinai as gamified striking practice.

[@angryzombie8088]

HEMA is made up word by the people who tries to revive forgotten European martial art, correct me if I'm wrong, I dont think they call it HEMA back in the Medieval & Renaissance period? Personally I think Kenjutsu can be called as HAMA. But HAMA/HEMA is a general term, so I think its better to call Kenjutsu as Kenjutsu to avoid confusion. Europe is a one big land mass interconnected by Roman roads, so what ever that works spread out faster. So a general term like HEMA works much better for European martial art. In comparison to Asia, we are isolated by various landscapes in the biggest continent on Earth so a specific name works much better for Asian martial art.

[@angryzombie8088]

@@larrylawnchair5570 Have you ever ask those Kenjutsu school why they dont do sparring?