"WHY DO YOU NEVER REVIEW A VACHERON CONSTANTIN?!" | A Vacheron Constantin Overseas Dual Time Review

[@SKCodesForFun]

I walked into a VC dealer once. I was in a hoodie and track pants and still got treated like one of their most esteemed clients. One day, if i can afford it, VC will be the first watch I buy from the holy trinity

[@johnmilton6569]

Totally agree! I only wear fancy clothing for work, and they greeted and treated me like every other customer. Took home a beautiful Malte tourbillon and still love it!

[@shr33d3r56]

Meanwhile, at AP you probably wouldve got tackled immediately.

[@muffemod]

Yea fuck Rolex and their games. I don't play that bullshit.

[@TheTrueHasenfeffer]

I'd agree. Pure class.

[@robertbrowne7880]

People who try on a Vacheron, know more than most.

[@NNK83]

Oh no. She said Rolex in the same breath as AP, VC and PP. Sorry Rolex is mass produced mid tier stuff. Does not compare to AP, VC, PP, Breguet, JLC, A Lange Sohne and Blancpain. Sorry just the truth.

[@moisesrosario7083]

True, but their marketing is second to none.

[@glutenfreeFamily90]

Rolex mid tier i would disagree, a seiko or citizen will keep far superior time..

[@j.m.4444]

Please do not compare a VC with a Rolex. Rolex is not Haute Holorgerie and should be compared with Omega...

[@TM-ic1eb]

@Manuel Romero especially the He escape valves, on the fly bracelet adjustments and all of those rolex knock offs they have recently released. Seriously though, the bracelet on the 300 divers is garbage, the 9:00 He release valves are a joke, the clasp on the 007 mesh bracelets are horrible. About the best thing going is the moon watch, which is a bit tired. Omega is priced fairly in the market, as is rolex.

[@TM-ic1eb]

@Manuel Romero There is a reason why the wait list exists. There is a reason why Rolex doesn’t loose value and Omega tanks. I’ll give you the moon watch as a winner. Great watch, but that’s all they have. Look at the secondary market and you’ll see that the majority of watch buyers agree that Rolex is a better product. Not to mention the lineup, they have a watch for everyone, including ladies.

[@davidgray2886]

@Manuel Romero I'll agree. Fine watch but...Waiting list? OK. Fine. But there are a lot of other watches that are "as good" or better than a Rolex and you can actually walk in and buy one. Rolex? Wait on it, put it on secondary market and make money. Crazy. To me anyway. No skin off my back. I'm too broke, or too smart, or too frugal, or have too much common sense or all of the above, or none of the above, to pay $20,000 for a damn watch. But that's just me. Carry on.......

[@davidgray2886]

Oh, BTW. I have enough cash in the bank to buy any Rolex I want. Today! But I can't(not available). And I won't😊

[@wardorhino398]

Exactly! A Rolex is a mass made marketing made watch

[@SuperWhofan1]

If a mass produced Daytona can be worth $36,000 USD then this watch is a total bargain

[@thierry1491]

I would definitely go for the VC chrono vs Daytona

[@milocabral7428]

@@thierry1491Oh 100%, there’s a certain pedigree and quality you get with VC that is just not as present on something like a Rolex.

[@brownmcpherson5724]

Jenni, I don't understand your comments on price. The quality is equal to anything from Patek or AP. And comparing similar models, the VC is well priced. Resale is a different conversation entirely. I own an Overseas, several Rolex, several Omega's plus a few others (and I've had a few Pateks). The VC is the one I wear the most. It's a great watch!

[@pe1386]

I agree !

[@InteliDey]

Whaaaat? Rolex is at the level of Patek, AP and Vacheron? Never!!! Jenni, how did you come to this conclusion? Rolex is all about brand and marketing. People with money and no taste buy Rolex. People with money and taste buy the holy trinity watches.

[@glutenfreeFamily90]

If you want a watch that never keeps time you buy a Rolex........

[@bani_niba]

Compared to a Rolex? Really? Anybody who knows enough to consider VC, wouldn't compare a high horology make to that mass-produced manufacturer.

[@porscheoscar]

Vacheron Overseas is a watch actually worth the hype of Rolex and worth the price of Patek. And they aren't a one trick pony like AP. They stand by their product with the longest warranty of the luxury brands. Impressive. Vacheron is the epitome of a true Maison and not just a mass producer of unremarkable 3 hand movements priced like Lange grade movements. This watch is far too classy for this flex culture world.

[@cedshred1676]

VC is several, repeat, several steps above Rolex, horologically speaking. Rolex is mid-tier, VC is high horology.

[@richrumble]

Rolex should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Vacheron Constantin. Oops! I did it myself.

[@Mpantiques]

Why, it is as good, even better.

[@richrumble]

@@Mpantiques Rolex is not in the same league as Vacheron.

[@Mpantiques]

@@richrumble Offcourse not, rolex is better.

[@jacobelx5841]

Because all the so called Big-5 watch reviews make me fall asleep faster than an elephant tranquilizer.

[@theRappinSpree]

Love Vacheron Constantin, possibly my favorite watch brand. Recently got my name down for the Overseas self winding - I know it’s going to be a long wait, but it’ll be worth it.

[@tomkhong9828]

Good luck, hope you get the call soon.

[@Ian-bq7gp]

You know class when you see it. The world time, everest overseas are amongst my favourites. For me i much prefer the VC over Rolex for quality. Yes Patek and AP are great too, its very subjective.

[@Ian-bq7gp]

I will never ever have anywhere near the cash to buy one but even a JLC is very expensive but they like Gerard Perregeaux can be almost put in the same class and are every bit as nice as the tip top Rolexes, Omegas and more. Anything of the top watches in stainless steel start at over £10000.

[@alexdenton6586]

Do you collect a lot of different watches or mostly Vacheron Constantin ?

[@dr.kevinmoore8889]

Did you get the watch?

[@carycoller3140]

It had a cool name but it's not an attractive watch to me.

[@jwbowen]

"Can it keep up?" Lol, other makers try to keep up with the quality and competence of VC.

[@jamessymington2466]

Good review although not sure why Rolex gets dragged into a discussion revolving around the big three. It has no place there at all!

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

Of all the high-end marine-themed watches out there, VC's Overseas is by far the best-looking! Patek itself even got bored by its Nautilus line being worn by each and every pro football player starting a watch collection, so they discontinued it. And Audemar Piguet's over-exhausted Offshore line time pieces are just vulgar hunks of metal.

[@robynsjp]

Rolex does not come close to VC. VC has more class. The one I would love is the Moonphase Retrograde Date version.

[@DarthMalaks_Missing_Lower_Jaw]

Please don’t ever bring Rolex up when comparing their mass produced stuff to something like VC

[@michelbruns]

price is definitely justified when a rolex msrp is around half that and is not nearly as well made/finished

[@66Viscount]

In my opinion I think it is too expensive. Other makes give much better value. It is a good make but I find it underwhelming. The AM/PM indicator is in my view a pretty useless function. Long history of watchmaking, good quality but not really mainstream. It will have its devotees though and rightly so…..just not on my must have list.

[@almeladze]

Yeah i hate that am/pm indicator as well. And I vehemently disagree that rolex is in the same league as PP, VC and AP. How can a machine made, barely decorated, mass produced watch be in the same league as the holy trinity where hand made and decoration is the name of the game and even Lange (ALS) with all its achievements is considered inferior to PP/VC/AP!?

[@tsibren]

I think VC are in a completely higher stratosphere compaired to the other luxury brands. They are in their own echelon and the amazing people behind Vacheron are to thank for it.

[@kaypee1972]

Does anyone really asked how this compares to a Rolex? Even if you should have 20% eyesight you wouldn’t ask this silly question. Don’t even understand why Rolex is being mentioned so often in this video just as there are no other watch brands.

[@DarthMalaks_Missing_Lower_Jaw]

Agree. Only Rolex fanboys think their watch can compare to VC, PP, AP, or ALS

[@alexissa6281]

I thinks it's because ur a A. Lange and sohne Odysseus fan girl, u don't like the Am and pm Indicator. Bet u would prefer them as bars in the arching to take up less clutter on the dial. Not judging BTW lol

[@arjunsaini1996]

Although the youtube algo probably doesn't like it, I appreciate these videos which don't have rolex shoehorned into the title. Great video!

[@sephorapiano9602]

Same Arjun same

[@DavidWilliams-zn2nc]

Will never understand,why VC doesn’t get the recognition it deserves! The Oldest company, the best finishing by a country mile! AP, and even Patek can’t hold a candle to them! Also Rolex shouldn’t be spoken in the same breath ! I would have thought you as a watch person would appreciate the brand more ! 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@justmeeagainn]

I bought this watch because I live in a windowless room and never leave, so the AM/PM indicator comes in handy and isn’t just a silly useless extra complication.

[@watchman8817]

More practical than another 24 hour wheel really.

[@WrigleyFieldBlues]

Good choice then. Might I also suggest you get a room that's a step up from a prison cell.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@WrigleyFieldBlues Nah, he should just get a watch with nice enamel artwork of a nature scene on the dial. Living in a dungeon while owning several expensive watches makes sense.

[@ifjfgvjfidifijf]

Lol AM/PM indicator is for the 2nd timezone (the short hour hand), it's not for your local timezone. By glancing at it you would know if it's day or night at the other timezone. It's only useless to people who don't understand it like you.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@ifjfgvjfidifijf Set the 2nd timezone to the same one you're in or only a few zones away and it does in fact show AM/PM for your own timezone. People unlike you who know how to think can use all kinds of things as useful tools.

[@tenson2410]

brilliant people to deal with , no snobbery , just well trained staff who want to sell you a watch

[@thomaspomeroy5678]

The cost went from $20,000 to $36,000 at the dealers. It is ridiculous.

[@TheBarts27]

@Jenni: To compare Rolex with Audemars, Patek and VC is not correct imho. Rolex is doing fine but nowhere near in terms of quality and finishing watches. Rolex is not a high end watchmaker. Rolex is basically doing great in dive/sports watches but that is what it is. This VC Overseas is perfection and a real stunner imho. One of my dream watches.

[@curtbrown7718]

Respectfully, the Chronext part of the video took waaaaaaaay too much time (over one minute), and as a result, it shortchanged the overall presentation content. Less advertising and more relevant product content. Thank you.

[@tomkhong9828]

Unbeatable versatility, love to own it someday

[@thilog5874]

Hey, you have a perfect design from the 70's like Patek and AP. It's called 222. Do you use it? Nah, we rather take the design from our quartz era.

[@user-gl5ld9vm7i]

I just watch to hear her pronounce the brand names!

[@Bourne1984]

I agree. Not only is she one of the best reviewers of watches but she has a lovely accent and is real pretty.

[@gregalonzo747]

Beautiful piece. I prefer Vacheron over the other two in the Holy Trinity. Unfortunately, they are all beyond my price range.😢

[@believe-in-righteousness]

I don't have 27k

[@rip93ford]

I've always liked Vacheron the most over the other 2 in the big 3. If I had the opportunity to ever purchase a watch from them I'd go with the 1921. Would love to even get to take a look at one in person one day.

[@brownmcpherson5724]

1921 in white gold is fantastic.

[@davidjb3671]

@@brownmcpherson5724 I'll second that - just got the 40mm and loving it 😍

[@steveantson9608]

Beautiful watch. Much better than AP. I never understood why AP gets so much more hype?

[@Montres_tempus]

Two words, Gerald Genta. The holy trinity should be Patek, VC and Breguet 👌

[@cryptophiliac4533]

HOLD UP! Did she lump Rolex in with the trinity? Different league Jenni. Still love ur channel tho!

[@rman7143]

I’m normally not a big fan of the super high-end SS watches. But this one is the stuff of dreams

[@CoxaBranca]

The AM/PM indicator is there to indicate the second timezone's half of the day. This is not a GMT watch, so the second hour hand goes around in 12 hours, not 24. The advantage is not having to have a second 24-hour time-scale around the dial, but it does require some type of AM/PM indicator, which they went with a pointer. I am sure the pointer indicator is its own special complication in terms of the movement having to operate it, but it was not discussed in the review.

[@hadisidaoui5784]

According to some it's a dual-time and others a GMT complication. Source: Wempe & Hodinkee.

[@rousseau327]

"GMT" is just often used interchangeably with "travel" nowadays

[@hoostineFL]

The other benefit is that the “GMT” hand and local hour hand will overlap and only look like a single hour hand when you’re not traveling. A more traditional/true GMT hand can’t do that as it circles at a different rate than local hour hand.

[@rezamahtabi482]

Its the best in the market, whether in steel or rosegold , its by far better crafted than Nautilus or Royal Oak. The only finishing cimparable to VC is Lange and sohne. Just look at blue dial and rosegold case to feel the real beauty itself , not by marketing. I think people who really are in to the watches can feel how better is VC.

[@FullyLumed]

The overseas 4500v is my grail watch. One day, one day.

[@MHTiwari]

I give no f*ck about wrist watches i come to see jenni 😎🙂😆

[@johnsmith-dm2tq]

question, the Japanese have jdm watches that they don't export. is there any Italian watches that are specific to Italy? i am going on my first trip out of u.s. and would like to buy a watch overseas but really don't want something I could just get here off amazon. from Italy to France by way or rail. but I would prefer to support the Italian economy over the others. can not go over 5k

[@xtrvette4412]

No power reserve or am/pm, in my eyes, destroy the overall symmetry of the dial. Oh and the 20,000 lines of text describing the watch.

[@bradg.5253]

I was fortunate to purchase this watch from the VC boutique exactly one week ago. I just love this watch. The quick release for strap exchange is a great feature to make the watch look and feel different.

[@tuckshop]

Congrats! Wear it in good health 🥂 May I ask how long your waitlist was?

[@hoostineFL]

@@tuckshop typically you need to already own a [non-allocated] VC watch to buy an allocated VC watch … at that point, it’s not that long - within a year, probably

[@Pulsonar]

The quick release is cool, but is there any risk of it releasing accidentally and falling off the wrist?

[@jedione65]

no@@Pulsonar

[@SuperDiehard1234]

I have an appointment today with the boutique offering me the watch. But I’m super confused if I should buy it or not

[@tonytan5945]

At 8:57 the luminous paint on the arrow looks smudged and messy, am I imagining that?

[@wiktorutracki6469]

This is the most beautiful watch I have ever seen. I would love to buy it. But I would have to work 4-5 years to he able to buy it and like 10 to afford it. XD so most likely I will never own one. But it is an extremely beautiful watch

[@tynguyen2263]

@ Jenni Elle , Jenni you should know that you speak English with THE MOST BEAUTIFUL sounding German accent . Listening to you speak English is like silk for the ears . FLAWLESS, mellifluous sound . Truly . Your voice is soft and clean like a crisp stream of running water . German accented English is my new favorite ! Wish we could also hear you make videos in German with English subtitles so we can hear more of your native language .

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

If only your punctuation was as skillful as this lady's language. *There is no space before a fullstop, exclamation point or comma, *only behind.

[@gregsolovieff6711]

Jenni’s voice is musical, lovely! Agree her German - accented English is very endearing. I bet she sounds beautiful in German too!

[@justingalore123]

How about the new 2023 35mm VC overseas? Just the thing for you!

[@dsvillalva]

Bravo Jenni for bringing us Vacheron content! The dual-time is too big for your wrist...you should try out the 2305V/100A-B170. 37mm with diamond bezel replacing the scratch-magnet steel! My wife loves it and it's practical with swapping the straps. I wish in this video you would have highlighted the other straps to further point to the practicality of the Overseas line. I am patiently waiting for the blue 4500 - it's been a year since I made the request of the boutique and I'm anxiously waiting to get 'the call.'

[@TheZumph]

Shes only bothered about watches because her fella is...if he was a gamer she'd be chatting about god of war

[@zillsburyy1]

interested in any watch books?

[@paranaqueboy]

Thanks JE! Happy 2023 from 🇵🇭

[@NialH95]

If only they’d release a 39mm.

[@calvinontime]

I’m a fan of the VC dual time. A great offering for a solid sports watch 👍

[@cheemomugdoo799]

I agree regarding the AM/PM indicator. It totally ruins the symmetry of the dial, and seems a bit inelegant. I think a window in the dial, with AM/PM might have been more subtle and attractive.

[@b23beatz]

Vacheron my favorite watch brand

[@jumboJetPilot]

I have always thought that the Overseas, every version of it, should be a four-handed GMT. The word “Overseas” implies that it’s a traveler’s watch. No complication that’s more convenient to a traveler than a GMT function with a rapid adjust twelve hour hand. Ditch the sub-minute indices scale in place of a fixed, 24 hour scale. No need for a rotatable bezel or 24 hour scale. I’d like to see them make the twelve hour hand jump forwards and backwards via push buttons at 2:30 and 4:30, that way you don’t have to continually screw and unscrew the crown as you cross time zones. And if they really, really wanted to make it a professional traveler’s watch then put a separate date display for the local twelve hour hand and for the GMT 24 hour hand as local date and GMT date are easily confused in aircraft and ship logbooks, corporate documents, etc. One time I saw an entire month’s worth of ship’s logbook entries have the wrong GMT date because the third mate confused local and GMT dates - and everyone else piggy-backed on that mistake for the remainder of the month! Having transitioned from the maritime to aviation, I’ve similarly seen aircraft logbooks with messed up date entries when GMT date and local date were confused.

[@raybuttigieg1343]

Hi Jenni, As someone of proud Maltese heritage, can you please explain the significance of the Maltese Cross on these watches. Thank you.

[@santorini8423]

Jenni, at last, VC , I love the dual timer, the price is coming down and I’ve se3n a few close to retail from Japan on Chrono, im actively looking, this watch pisses on my Rolex collection, especially the bracelet

[@santorini8423]

@Official_JenniElle............ gfy ntuc

[@osobad1127]

VC the worst value for money?

[@garyboyle695]

Geneva seal also means that you cannot use the thin metal guage springs you see on most watches, including Rolex, they have to be of a higher quality.

[@travisatwood576]

I would just tell them I don't review them because I can't even pronounce the name correctly. Lol. It's OK practice makes perfect.

[@garyboyle695]

The price is fine considering the amount of hand finishing done on both the movement and the case, plus the rotor is 22c gold.

[@DYLANNGUYEN-qd8nv]

Heya jenni. Love your work. Will you ever review an iwc / make an comparison. Would love to see it. just a friendly suggestion 😊

[@charles_the_elder]

I agree about the AM/PM indicator, makes a lovely watch look too busy.

[@pistonburner6448]

I think I should add an AM/PM indicator onto myself to get my boss off my back.

[@YanikCoen]

That’s the charm.

[@MrLeSa95]

Rolex really has no place in conversation with Vacheron, Ap or Patek

[@brownmcpherson5724]

No place at all.

[@canerbaykara2639]

the 34mm auto version is worth it imo. This one's too large.

[@jasongultjaeff9397]

Looks great. A very beautiful watch. Way out of my price range though, unfortunately. Good video review.

[@AM-hk3uw]

Hi JE, great channel - do you know that VC also now has an 8 yr warranty on their watches. AP = 5 yrs. Patek = 2 yrs. Rolex = 5 yrs. VC implemented the extended warranty to 8 yrs after I brought my watch, but because it was still within the original 2yrs, they automatically gave the extra 6 yrs. A very nice gesture.

[@jameswilkes3186]

Great video, beautiful watch. If I didn't need my car, I would get one today.😄

[@chrisgrieves1468]

I agree a bit smaller would be better. 2mm less dia and lug length and I'd be lusting after it. As it stands, well they saved me a bunch of cash :) What I don't understand Jenni, is why Rolex even gets a single mention in a VC review. Not relevant, VC is a completely different class of piece.

[@dukes70]

I was surprised at that too. There is no holy quattro! Lol

[@michaellee3158]

Spot on review. AM/PM is needed without the 24 hour bezel but more discreet design would’ve balanced the look of the dial. Only complaint on an otherwise stunning watch.

[@norcalplumber2918]

You have to see that blue dial in person, no video or photo do it justice

[@ramzihashem9782]

Honey

[@BoyInStyle]

This watach is so smooth ❤️🔥🔥🔥👍🏻

[@gladlawson61]

I like the overseas better

[@BoyInStyle]

@@gladlawson61I like overseas too ))💫

[@pob0r]

Gorgeous Watches. Please do something about the sound reflexions. Less echo would make your Videos even more enjoyable!

[@JasonTheWatchGuy]

That is such an incredible piece! I wish I had a chance to have one in hand because ownership is definitely out of reach!

[@alimuzhussain8394]

Unbelievable Jenni Elle Disgusting 🤮 to be sponsored by unscrupulous Watch sellers such a Chronext. They charge £36,000 for a steel Daytona £26,000 for bi metal Daytona And £90,000 do green Daytona This is very unethical of you to be getting sponsors from Chronext Do you really support grey Watch dealers who charge public very excessively? Shame!!!

[@gurunfulah5085]

You will own it one day I am sure!

[@kelorednaxela]

It would have been nice to hear about the functions of the watch instead of it's pricing and value. We all can see the prices for new and second-hand watch. But exactly how the dual time is implemented and how it's set would be really useful to hear.

[@m2pozad]

I'd prefer the three-hander version. And I'm not interested in more or most blue dials.

[@marshallmarthes]

Vc would be for someone who is old money. Meanwhile, Rolex is for someone who is new money.

[@attila2246]

No. I know plenty of new money people with VC. Heck I am ‘new money’ too and also wear VC. Really is just personal preference, the watch or watch brand someone wears means nothing.

[@memesoso1346]

This watch is a dream.

[@Sams911]

VC is the "father" position in the Holy Trinity almost a 100 years older than PP .. while I love my PP Nautilus 5711/1R and AP Royal Oak Chrono as well as my two Rolex .. my 4500V in rose gold is my favorite (and arguably finest) watch.... btw, they aren't "one of the oldest"... they ARE the oldest.. because Blancpain died and had been dead before being resurrected as a new company .. VC has been in continuous operation for 262 years. Finally, the Geneva Seal since 2012 has many new requirements including precision testing... as well as case finish requirements. Mine keeps +1 second a day.

[@likeris2]

dj 41 is 39mm in reality.

[@laurinbar3223]

I myself own VCO Dualtime for 1.5 years now. It is by far the most expensive thing I have ever bought yet I can't help myself but wear it every day. Its finishing is second to none and the blue dial is in my opinion the best in the industry. Although its made by the same company that crafts the dial for F.P. Journes Chonomètre Bleu I even prefer it over that. Tolles Video und super review! By the way the AM/PM indicator is mandatory to read the second timezone and I love the way the date is displayed. Like this there is no hole in the dial that breaks this magnificent blue.

[@dc1674]

I went watch shopping in Madrid a few days ago. I went to see JLC, Rolex, Patek, VC,Lange, and Glashutte. 2 Favorites were Glashutte and VC by a lot. Patek and Rolex seemed very overhyped, JLC was a close 3rd. The Patek I thought I liked (5205 annual calendar) really was quite blah in person. VC was by FAR the watch that stood out as best quality and esthetics. The VC overseas retrograde was a very impressive piece and even my GF said it was by far the nicest of the bunch. Everyone provided great service. VC will be my choice for my 50th bd.

[@aquariuscomfort]

How can you review a watch you’ve never handled or wore for a week? Isn’t that cheating?

[@spirotsoukatos986]

Its definitely my dream watch

[@xx1j]

I waited long for this 😅 Thank you!

[@pezaxor7920]

could you do a video of different watches at different price points that have a display for the day? not the date but the day (monday, thursday......)

[@eagles4757]

I think all the people who say ROLEX not worth it to put in perspective at Retail you could get GMT MASTER II,DATEJUST &AIR KING or this who is OVERPRICED AGAIN?LOL 2 years this can be had 12k facts!!!!!!!

[@cyberwapx]

Use casio with complications . Whole lotta cheaper

[@GoFastJames]

Past few years seeing VC get some traction is nice just hope stays in a good area. For me VC all ways been the top maker, same time I still like and will have others a long with many VC models. Thing makes me mad over the years is people not respecting a brand/company when respect is due, for example people down playing VC for some reason or how about RM people saying its a joke a toy no one wants it or its a bubble even tho never went down has hard as others.

[@watchman8817]

Jenni, what watch were you wearing? It looks so interesting. I should slow the video and see if I can figure it out. Oris Sea plastic???

[@CaptCanuck4444]

Too busy for me (like some JLCs). I prefer the base version.

[@georgewilson2452]

I have a overseas and I love it.

[@hamachiwustin622]

I loved my and enjoyed very much.

[@RussianSkiAmateurs]

A month ago, passed on the dual time at AD, but it was silver dial. It wears large indeed even on my 7.5” wrist. Wouldn’t have passed on that blue dial, I think )

[@andrewsingh]

What’s with the constant Rolex references? Like comparing ford to bmw…