Why Does Closing Windows on a Mac not Quit the Application?

[@JohnMHammer]

I miss the old days when Apple would follow their own user interface guidelines quite strictly and nearly all developers did as well. There are several applications which close with their last open window, including some Apple applications, and it drives me nuts when that happens. A running Mac application is not supposed to be dependent on its windows, it's supposed to be the other way around.

[@pressrepeat2000]

Yeah it’s so weird now, sometimes the app closes when closing the window, sometimes it doesn’t. Not possible for the normal person to know what’s what and when. Not sure why they did this, there’s no consistency.

[@garyross3453]

Afaik this only happens with apps that can only have one window/state such as the calculator. It doesn't really make sense to close the window of the calculator without quitting. You're better of hiding such apps with Command-H. I think this has always happened like this: there is a name for such apps but I forget what it is! "Desk accessory" maybe. I believe the apple guidelines are that such apps should quit on closing the window otherwise you could return to the calculator and have no window. This can make sense in Photoshop but in the calculator would be confusing.

[@JohnMHammer]

@@garyross3453 I can accept that. Good reasoning!

[@miguimau]

As a long time user, I'm with you.

[@ArthurKhazbs]

Exactly! Why would an app depend on its windows? What is this, some sort of Windows?! :)

[@shawnwinget2337]

I have a repair shop and the vast majority of what I work on are Windows machines. Hardware repairs on Macs are really no different than PCs but using Mac OS drives me crazy. Everything seems upside down and backwards from what I am used to. This channel is definitely helpful for me. One thing I love about macs is the migration assistant. When I am replacing bad hard drives in windows machines I have to try and get the drive in good enough shape to clone it over so the customer doesn't have to reinstall programs and reconfigure their settings. I don't even bother with macs. I just restore Mac OS and then use the migration assistant to move everything from the old hard drive. I don't understand why Windows does not have a similar feature to this.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

I’ve been using Macs since 1985, but I still think Windows does some things slicker. Their version of closing/quitting is more consistent. And I think how you can hide or reopen a window by clicking on the task bar icon is nice. They do toggling windows sizes better. And arranging windows on a screen is better. They took some of the features of MacOS and figured out how to do them better. I wish Apple kept up. I don’t want to have to recall which 3 step keystroke shortcut with either command, or control, or option I’m supposed to use. I don’t feel like buying a bunch of 3rd party apps to accomplish these. I like Macs, but I recognize better features when I see them. Thanks.

[@razvanmihai4884]

Fully agreed. All things considered, I was doing something wrong with window management in the beginning. I was hoping that Stage Manager would fill in the gaps and, as you say, don't need to resort to third-party apps, but it did not. For example, I still find navigating between more Desktops a pain after years of using the Mac. This is why I settled for using only two virtual desktops even though the opportunities are huge only if we were given some extra setting option, such as bringing an application into the current desktop.

[@adaml.5355]

@@razvanmihai4884 Stage manager calls those little stacks "piles." Is there any more apt description for macOS window management? Piles.

[@razvanmihai4884]

@@adaml.5355 As I understand it, the Stage Manager is similar to a desktop, but it allows you to see the contents of the "piles" more clearly. I recently learned that you can turn on the "Group windows by application" feature under Desktop & Dock. This groups all of your open windows together by the app when you use Mission Control on a desktop, making it easier to find specific windows and allowing you to drag the app icon underneath the pile into another desktop or create a new desktop with the whole app pile.

[@armenstaubach9276]

Actually I like the option that it doesn’t quit the app, sometimes I just wanna close the file I’m working and keep the app ready for a while. And is it too hard or time consuming for you to use cmd Q?

[@BobbieGWhiz]

@@armenstaubach9276 I was just stating my personal preference. I can click command q, or I can just leave it open in the background. I like Macs overall, but not every last part of the OS. Happy holidays.

[@LeeStewart]

For people who are transitioning from Windows to Mac, a popular misconception is closing apps. The same happened to me when I transitioned from Windows 7 to Mac OS X Lion in 2012. It can be confusing as certain apps with only one window do close using the red button, others don't. The philosophy is that you close a window and then you have the ability to start a new one without relaunching the app which uses less RAM and power consumption.

[@mark4tesla]

I understand that, but it seems to me at least to be simpler on Windows. If you want to close the window, wouldn't minimize do just about the same thing?

[@pawe460]

Relaunching an app uses more RAM/energy than having it opened in background?

[@LeeStewart]

​@@pawe460 Yes, that's my logic and that's why we've always been lead to believe that closing apps on iOS isn't recommended. Keeping the app open in the background consumes less energy than closing and reopening from scratch.

[@Riteshkrpanda]

Letting the app running more ram as i understand it , However reopening apps used more power yes

[@ArthurKhazbs]

On macOS, keeping apps running is the norm, because macOS has a lot of RAM management magic builtin. For example, macOS intelligently dumps apps' memory to disk, so in case you start running out of RAM, it can be quickly reclaimed from least active apps without losing information.

[@driatros]

This app behavior and not having a forward delete key in laptops were the two annoyances that kept me from using Macs for years. It helps to understand the logic behind it, especially being able to close the last document and start a new one easily.

[@Semmelstulle]

Forward delete actually is just Fn + delete, personally I like it this way

[@driatros]

@@Semmelstulle yes. It was just a big mind shift for me. Plus, it’s still annoying when using key modifiers to delete a whole word or line. It’s just one of those things I had to get over in order to get all of the benefits from using Macs. For example: Every time I had to deal with a pdf I’m am so thankful I’m not doing that on Windows anymore!

[@macmost]

And also Control+D. But if you have the larger Mac keyboard, you have a forward delete key just like on a PC.

[@craigcrawford6749]

I think this is beneficial

[@patrick71994]

I still don’t like this behaviour. Since closing the application is happening A LOT more then the times that I close all windows and then decide to start a new document.

[@ed_ms]

I started using a Mac just about 2 years ago. Managing and switching windows and window behavior in general are still one of the few things Windows OS is better at in my opinion. I've got used already, but still. I also noticed some apps required cmdQ, others just the red cross. Because I did not understand why this was, I defaulted to use cmdQ all of the time. At least thanks to you, now I know why some apps behave different. Guess I will start unlearning cmdQ for everything lol 😆.

[@bryanb3352]

The basic things Windows does better but you still use a mac?

[@ApurvJyotirmay]

@@bryanb3352 there can be different reasons. No need to be a fan boy. Windows does some basic things badly too, like say, privacy.

[@vintagewander]

@@bryanb3352 you should see how bad modern standby on Windows laptops

[@natbarmore]

Could you share what, exactly, you like better about MSWindows’ handling of windows? I see lots of people say something like you did, but rarely see anyone point at specific behaviors and use-cases to illustrate the preference. I have to use Windows 10 for work, and while there is one Windows 10 window-management keyboard shortcut I miss when I’m using my Macs, in every other way I find window management significantly less efficient and more frustrating when using Windows 10. To me, managing and switching windows and window behavior in general is one of the places where macOS is unambiguously better, and so I’m always wondering how people use the two OSes differently that they have the exact opposite experience? (The main thing I see get mentioned is window snapping. To me, that’s a kludge that people primarily find so valuable precisely because the window management is so _poor_ . I sometimes find it the best solution when using Windows 10, because doing what I actually want to do is awkward or impossible, but I never miss it when using macOS, because I can just manage my windows myself very efficiently. Particularly with a mouse (window management on macOS with a trackpad is a bit more awkward).)

[@ed_ms]

@@natbarmore alt-tab on Macs switches between apps, not open windows. Also when you minimize of your open apps to the dock, that app is no more accessible with alt-tab. Full screen does not act the same way in every app. Those things are no dealbreakers, but if I have to be honest, Windows handles this better in my opinion.

[@ethanmenzel]

I wish mac’s had the option to quit applications like windows because my mom always keeps Google chrome open, which often makes it out of date since she never uses command q

[@hanshuber5659]

I knew some of this already, however, it‘s always a pleasure to listen to your explanations. Keep on your excellent work!

[@collinwood60]

I just started using MacOS a few months ago after using Windows for decades. This issue with closing/quitting applications and windows confused me at first. I kind of stumbled on to an understanding, but your explanation really helps. I do like the functionality of the green button letting you tile a window on the left, right, or go full screen.

[@lorensims4846]

Actually closing the window DOES quit certain programs, especially document-based apps like Notes (well, it does this on my old Mojave system). I heard a podcast a while ago that complained that a program quit when you close the window "which is very un-Mac-like behavior." I really wish Terminal WOULD quit when I close the window or 'exit.'

[@waterknot1]

Check in the preferences. That behavior is an option.

[@AhmadAryan2013]

You are always doing a great job man!

[@itsyellow]

When borrowing my mom's Windows computer I tried to do Win+Q (it brought up search), and then binged 'how to quit application on Windows'...

[@rogermuggleton8127]

It is not surprising that MacOS and Windows do things differently, after all they are made by different companies and each have a long history. As a Mac user, I do things the Mac way and it seems entirely satisfactory. For example, if I click the red button in Mail the window closes but Mail continues to run. Why would I want it any other way? I normally have Mail running all the time, along with various messaging apps. Their windows are usually closed but I can still see if a new message has arrived. Likewise window control. I rarely fill the screen with an app. I never tile windows. Why would I want to do these things? I prefer my windows to stay where I put them, rather than snap to a side. I rarely maximise. I prefer the menu bar and the dock to stay put so that they are visible and easily accessible. My work involves moving between multiple windows and applications so I arrange the screen to make this work for me. People are resistant to change, so after nearly 20 years with Macs I would probably find MS Windows annoying if I switched now.

[@sirflimflam]

As someone who has been slowly transitioning to Mac for it's arguably better workflow (for my needs) this definitely bugged me for a while. But I've definitely come to find it more useful. I tend to get around by keybinds anyway so using Cmd+Q was a drop in replacement for my desire to keep things closed I am not using, which is probably just another mindset I've kept from Windows.

[@encycl07pedia-]

Why'd you switch to something worse than Windows? Windows keeps getting worse because it keeps getting closer to Apple in terms of taking away options from its users.

[@sirflimflam]

@@encycl07pedia- It keeps getting worse because Microsoft doesn't know how to manage it anymore. They realize they need to modernize but they are stuck supporting decades of legacy features they're too afraid to deprecate. So we get things like multiple control panels, or half implemented functionality, or god the metro interface. I like MacOS for its good integration for things I need from it, and its stellar ability to communicate with my other devices. So my office work is often done on a mac. I have a powerful windows machine for things where power is required, be it games, 3d rendering, or anything else I need to do. So it's not so much that I've switched, I've just prioritized my devices for what provides me a better workflow for a given task.

[@encycl07pedia-]

@@sirflimflam What constitutes office work and why must it be done on Mac OS? "its stellar ability to communicate with my other devices." Obviously your other devices are Apple products because Apple is notoriously incompatible with anything else. You've fallen into their trap and you probably don't even realize it. I'd guess you at least have one IOS device and maybe Airpods. You do know that you can text from a PC without Imessage, right? They're steadily taking over your tech life. I personally don't use Windows or Mac OS anymore, but JFC, using both is just awful for productivity, especially considering their annoying but persistent differences in keyboard shortcuts. And the legacy software line doesn't really hold up considering they 86ed IE and how Windows 11 is actively shunning "the old way."

[@rbnsnmb]

I finally have decided to subscribe to this KZbin channel because all the solutions that I need always come from this guy... thanks man for your amazing content

[@omerturkoglu7002]

Is there any option or app in mac to get the closing behaviour of windows?

[@macmost]

Just Command+Q

[@omerturkoglu7002]

@@macmost i mean with clicking the x

[@macmost]

@@omerturkoglu7002 Right. The functionality you want is to quit the app, right? On a Mac, that's File, Quit or Command+Q. If you want to just close the window, then click the red button. There's no way to change that. There's no need to either. An app with no open windows isn't getting in the way of anything if you forget to quit.

[@saycheeseordie4458]

It basically comes down to memory management. macOS and derivatives are amazing at working out what you need at the moment and what you don’t. So, apps are still there after you close the window, but as soon as OS or apps need free space, OS will gladly reallocate it from whatever apps that weren’t closed. It has the benefit of system and apps responding a bit faster, since there is not a whole lot to load from slow storage, but still having all available ram for hungry apps like video editors, virtual machines and games. On the other hand, for things like games, video editors etc, or just simple apps, you don’t want to keep them running in the background after you’ve finished using it, that would be just to memory intense and would kill the battery quite fast. The idea here is very simple and very reasonable: in order to be able to use all RAM, you need to have it powered on ALL the time. So, instead of wasting that power to keep ram that you don’t use at the moment, macOS just keeps apps running until you manually close it or till system decides that it needs more space for something else. It also saves power as there is significantly less CPU spikes compared to when you ‘cold-open’ the application. So, TL;DR: Don’t worry that those apps running will significantly affect performance in any way. macOS does a pretty good job of managing all of it for you.

[@aaron.sorenson]

Actually it entirely depends on the app if it quits or not. But like you are supposed to do using app name drop down menu on top bar then hit quit is the best way to quit an application.

[@paulrs2975]

When I close my last Pages document it stays running until I switch to another application, then it quits. Inconsistant, BBEdit and Terminal always remain running until quit.

[@Fordtruck4sale]

There is SOME ram being used when you leave an app open, like Mail for example, about 120MB of ram being used with 0 windows open. Not a problem but it can add up, memory management is good on MacOS though so stuff will just go to cache.

[@loisskiathitis8926]

Excellent video tutorial today and most useful! Thank you, Gary! 👏🏻❤️

[@stratman103]

I really appreciate your channel. This is my first Mac device and you have really helped me not just on how to do certain tasks, but understand why Apple does what they do. That's when it really starts making sense. Thank you!!

[@danilodroghetti6427]

That is the way things should go. Though I noticed that sometimes, after closing the last window of an app - also an Apple app, like Pages - the app disappears both on the menu bar and on the dock; but if I invoke the 'force quit' command from the Apple menu, the app is still there. This happens randomly, but it is not a software configuration problem because both my iMac and MacBook Air behave that way. So, what's going on?

[@jeffehlers9893]

Just a note. I tried your pages experiment. When I reopened pages it took me to the selection screen, not to the document i had up when I closed pages. Also, pages prompts you to save or delete the document prior to allowing shut down.

[@jahidsarkar3768]

It's just a plain bold mistake that apple as always say "Is a feature, not a bug" If it really way "SO CONVINIENT", you wouldn't see millions of people complaining about it everyday

[@Loerarie]

Some applications are better stopped. Why? Even when all documents of an application are closed, that application can still perform network traffic that you are not aware of. An example is Google Chrome, which is questionable.

[@TechAndGuides]

Thank you for the explanation! Learned new things I didn't know, although I have been using Macs for more than 7 years!

[@Seven71987]

Windows 95 is the first windows that does the three button for pcs while MacOSX Cheetah 10.0 which is made 5 years later is the first macos that does the color button for macs.

[@slob5041]

It comes from the old behavior of having to swap programs using a dedicated switch. It was a workaround for fake multi application management in the early Mac OS

[@jessicajackson9164]

Thank you so much for this excellent explanation. I’m new to macs and I have to say I have agonized over the Pages not closing, now I feel better. Thanks.

[@razvanmihai4884]

Excellent and to-the-point tutorial. This reminded me of the Option-Command-W shortcut for closing all windows while keeping the app on. Helpful for the scenario you mentioned when you want to close all windows but not the app.

[@pineappleroad]

For a while i was unsure as to if i preferred the way Windows does it or the way Mac OS does it But i think I actually prefer the way Mac OS does it (mainly because its easier to see which apps are running in the background, with windows its not as easy to check, on windows the majority of apps will only run if there is a window open, but some apps will run in the background, one example is Steam)

[@BP-Rules]

Well, closing (MacOS) vs. quitting (Windows) are really just two different approaches, each with its own advanteges and disadvateges. However, auto saving upon quitting without any option to cancel is really just another Apple tyrany (you will do things in only one way - our way!). I quite often make scetches to files (especcialy Excel spreadsheets), and then quit without saving. This has finally answered my question of whether I should try a Mac for once, just for diversing my computing experience (I'm a Windows user scince version 3.0), and the answer is "certainly not!".

[@fadhilhussain8344]

There’s a setting to change it at 4:54

[@BP-Rules]

@@fadhilhussain8344 That’s for closing; there is no option for cancelling auto save upon quitting.

[@raheem201231]

@@BP-Rules why would you not want an auto save when quitting? (There is a setting for by the way)

[@BP-Rules]

@@raheem201231 Take yesterday, for instance: I attached a students’ Excel grade sheet to the left, and a browser to the right (another thing MacOS cannot do, BTW), the hid three columns containing intermediate calculations, and copied the final grade to a ministry of education site; then I quitted Excel. I didn’t want to permanently hide the calculations; only until the final grades are copied. But I really believe that the topic does not sums up to examples; it sums up to whether an OS should decide for the user whether or not to save a file. I think it should mind its business (processing applications resources requests and running the computer) and let me mind my business (my workflow).

[@raheem201231]

@@BP-Rules First thing working on separate apps on the same desktop works with no problems. MacOS does that well. Excel is made by Microsoft who use their own skin for filing saving, printing ect. Excel has an auto save feature if the file is being stored on the cloud (OneDrive). That auto saves when you close. When closing a excel file you have not saved the additional work you have done to it, it will prompt a do you want to save.

[@dtamas]

What I do not get is what is the difference between closing and minimising an app in MacOS? In Windows it is logical, the minimise button hides the app, but in MacOS the exit button also just hides the app, it does not quit. So what is the difference between closing and minimising? Can someone give me some explanation?

[@macmost]

The red close button closes the DOCUMENT. Minimize does not close the document, it is still open and the window is just minimized into the Dock. Think documents (or web page viewers) not entire applications.

[@ismailmujde]

In Microsoft Windows when you close an application, the process is terminated but the memory used by the application remains untouched as long as possible. When you start another application some other unused memory area is used. When no unused memory is available, then closed application's memory is overwritten. So, when you relaunch an application, it will take much less time because it is already in memory.

[@doyourbest7655]

Older systems had the problem of limited memory so it was important to remove the program. In some cases the program could be run faster meaning the computation process could be faster with a TSR command “Terminate and Stay Resident” . However valuable operating memory was limited. Just some history

[@waterknot1]

Often I am working with multiple projects, I would not want the app to quit when I close. I would have to go through the app load process every time I want to switch projects. Many applications offer a setting to quit on close which I prefer to a default.

[@alchemical-architecture]

These are so informative

[@ahmed_mahrouky]

you never fail to teach me something new. thanks alot

[@JBuchmann]

Great explanation, and it now makes sense why it works this way. But I still find it annoying that a "closed" app still may have a little dot under it in the dock icon. When I look at my dock I'll see many apps with dots under them, but i can't tell instantly if these are REALLY apps i'm currently working with, or if they are apps i'm done with and closed. Very confusing.

[@macmost]

If there is a dot then the app is running. The app may have no windows and still be running, as I explain in this video. If you don't want that, quit the app. Remember that an app is not "closed" it would be a window that is "closed." Separate apps and app windows in your mind to better understand it.

[@sankalpietechtips]

I have 7 instances of visual studio open, 2 virtual machines, one 4k video is being edited, 26 chrome tabs, and I certainly believe that when I press the cross button, I want the app to close to free up memory not to do this random behavior and slow down my PC. GOD, I LOVE WINDOWS

[@GregConquest]

Thank you for this. I never understood why closing the window on my browser caused all the tabs to disappear whereas quitting the browser app preserved the tabs. It seemed like a bug. Now I know. Your demonstration helped me to understand. Such behavior is what I expect if I have multiple tabs open in multiple browser windows; closing one window closes all those tabs. Apple just extends this behavior more consistently.

[@PatricioBenavente]

In app switcher (Command+Tab) you can quit an app with Command+q or hide the app with Command+h

[@SproutyPottedPlant]

Mac OS works similar to RISC OS, the hardware is using ARM, a Mac is very much like a modern day Acorn Archimedes!

[@k.vn.k]

Coming from Mac, I often frustrated with Windows. I am used to click the red button to close the “windows” and cmd-Q to quit the apps, but in Windows clicking the red means quitting the app entirely. It’s so frustrating but it’s getting better now. I still think Mac gets it right because the three buttons red yellow green represents window controls not apps control and quitting the apps shouldn’t be there.

[@bryanb3352]

Yeah because clicking a red button to not close the app is so intuitive and useful. It's much better for it to be a "surprise, here I am!" on next reboot button.

[@k.vn.k]

@@bryanb3352 I suppose different OS works differently. On Mac, a same app can have multiple windows, which any of them is often easier to close by clicking the red button. I forgot how does Ms Windows works, does it have multiple windows or “stack”? And how do you close any of them while keep the apps open?

[@ArduinoTurkBatu]

what is the difference between "Red Close App button" and "Yellow Minimize button"?

[@JasonMcFadden]

This makes much sense and helped me understand some logic behind this as one who spent prior years on Windows. Just wish Apple was consistent with close v quit.

[@joost1453]

I never understood how the auto-save worked on macOS compared to one drive auto save in windows and just spammed cmd+c all the time. Thanks you.

[@carolinebarlow4795]

Thanks very much, Gary! That was a very interesting and helpful video.

[@GMPO3]

Never fails. Really good info.

[@ArthurKhazbs]

Naturally, closing a document and quitting the app are two separate intents that the user might have. And if not, the user still has a hotkey/setting as an alternative.

[@garyross3453]

Just use Command-Q when you want to quit and Command-W to close a window. (Apps where it makes no sense to close a window without quitting such as the calculator will quit if you do Command-W. But if you're in the habit of Command-Q this in no issue.)

[@GamingProject23]

maybe the „keep a program open to start a new document“ can make sense, however my experience is that ar some point, when my mac gets slow, ill habe to open all programs individually, then cmd q them. pretty tedious.

[@barsadal1738]

you can just do CMD+Q from the app switcher: just switch to the app you want to quit and press CMD+Q.

[@pappanatas]

Hey Gary 🙋🏻‍♂ theres plenty of data out there about not shutting down the MacBook, which is fine, but I can't find anything about whether it's right or wrong closing Apps before shutting the Mac down. Is it proper or necessary to full-close Apps from the Dock before sleeping or shutting down? Regards buddy.

[@macmost]

If you need to shut down your Mac, then your apps will be quit whether you like it or not. You can't leave apps running if the Mac isn't running. You can just let the Mac do it on its own.

[@salmann3874]

My longgg concerned question which stayed in mind for quite sometime

[@soufianehammadi4975]

I would like to know how to use vpn in MacBook Pro 14

[@BDonTJ]

Thanks for changing your wording, Gary! 😃

[@BellBivDeveau]

Thanks for what you do! I use you for reference on a regular basis.

[@jeffersoens]

I suppose a Reminders app quits when you close the last window is because this app was brought to macOS from the iPadOS. Perhaps all iPad apps work this way in macOS

[@diablosv36]

I feel like SSDs have made keeping apps in memory that you have closed is kind of redundant at this point, the OS keeping apps open in the background is always asking for trouble, as apps can miss behave in many ways, ive seen it many times before, having to rely on the OS to memory manage it all never works perfectly. Knowing how to force close apps is very much essential IMO

[@gezeo750]

This is a good explanation and all but since you said this behavior pre-dates Windows then was this part of the original Macintosh OS at some point and just stuck around? Or like a Unix thing? Was MacOS based on Unix? Was it due to how memory is managed in the OS? I guess that's more of the explanation I was looking for instead of what I got here, which was still helpful btw. Gives you a peek into Apple's methodology on how an OS should work.

[@static-san]

Huh. Definitely the sort of information that should be in some sort of "Welcome to Mac" type of introduction. (Windows could do with one, too, for different reasons.)

[@michaelbalkam]

Most of the time, on a Mac always use command q to quit. If that fails hold control key right click on the app then force quit. Or lastly go to activity moniter then find the app then force quit using the UI.

[@macmost]

Never force quit unless there is a problem and you can't quit normally. In general you should almost never have to use force quit. Try very hard to avoid it.

[@michaelbalkam]

@@macmost Most of the time I force quit if there is a problem. Otherwise do command Q for most of everything. I make sure I save what I am doing before I do command Q.

[@michaelbalkam]

@@macmost Most of the time I force quit if there is a problem. Otherwise do command Q for most of everything. I make sure I save what I am doing before I do command Q.

[@bikdav]

OK. Now, it makes sense. All my MACs were this way. I didn’t mind it at all.

[@Pingu_Noot_Noot]

Hi, thank you for your video! I was wondering what the difference is between 'Quit' and 'Force Quit' an application(1). I know that you can Force Quit apps if they are unresponsive or if you experience issue using them. Force Quitting applications may cause you to lose data. Such as your current task or what you're currently working on within that particular app. However, if I 'Quit' an application by the Menu Bar-->App Name-->Quit App Name/Command-Q OR right click the application in the Dock and then click 'Quit' (it's the same I guess(2)?), can that also cause me to lose data like it can happen with 'Force Quit' (Menu Bar-->Apple logo-->Force Quit/Option-Command-ESC OR right click application in the Dock while holding the Option key and then click 'Force Quit')(3)? Kind regards, J

[@robertbrzheintzbrz147]

Most windows users don’t know that office apps behave exactly the same. Closing a document (ctrl-F4) closes the document and not the app.

[@bryanb3352]

a document is not an app

[@marcusaureliusf]

Yeah, on many Windows apps you can just do File->Close (or Ctrl+F4) to close the document without closing the app. If the app supports that, it'll leave an empty window from where you can open other documents.

[@barsadal1738]

I wish Shift clicking the red button would quit an app. I also wish the minimize button would do double duty as a hide button (CMD+H) when you have multiple app windows open, so you don't have to rely on a keyboard shortcut.

[@artemshpynov9202]

No it doesn’t related to quick “reopening” of application. It is just a historical. In oldie 00x and a time of WindowsXP it was a concept of multi document applications. On windows too. Like Word or Write. But on windows it was messy. Like you had two lines of close buttons. Or two window buttons on taskbar. MacOS that time make that concept dominated on whole OS level. Like single app menu, window is a document etc. and it was perfect for many apps on mac and ugly on windows. But since that time tabs start using and now on mac it is look strange already

[@sjn_]

I have a question... If the app window is just closed using the red button and not fully quit using CMD + Q, does the app continue to consume the battery power? I moved to MacOS from Windows a year ago and this thing kinda bugged me too. I still quit all the apps using CMD + Q before putting my MacBook to sleep cause I get a feeling they consume battery. Am I wrong here? Does quitting the apps every time have some kind of a side effect or stuff like that? 🤔

[@macmost]

An app that how no open windows is not really using any battery power. Depends on the app of course, but in general it isn't a concern.

[@scottboettcher1344]

Thanks again Gary for some nuances that I wasn't aware of. Hopefully you could do a followup to this lesson, on the differences between "closing a window" (leaving the app running) and "hiding a window" (Cmd-H, leaving the app running). I have started using Hide per your previous recommendations, but I'm still don't know the differences between "closing" and "hiding". Thanks again!

[@macmost]

From a practical standpoint for small documents, very little. A hidden app (the whole app is hidden, not just one window) still has that document open and it is ready for you to work on when you unhide it. Switching back to that app would show all its windows again, with the same documents/webpages you saw before because they never really went anywhere. Closing means the app is no longer using that document. You'd need to open it up again, which means launching the app and then opening that file (finding it, choosing it). For larger files it could be a time saver. If a huge document (like a book or an Xcode project) is closed, it could take a few seconds or longer to reopen. But if it is already open and the app is just hidden, then you can get back to it instantly.

[@scottboettcher1344]

@@macmost That makes sense; sounds like sticking with "Hide" is the right choice for me. Thanks!

[@andybrice2711]

I think this is the logical behaviour. And I wish it was consistent. I often want to leave an application open without any windows. I shouldn't have to memorize or count the number of open windows in order figure out whether the "Close" command really means "Close" or whether it actually means "Quit". When I want an application to quit, I'll tell it to quit.

[@krteldsanta1]

The app will be using battery?

[@macmost]

I'll need more information to answer that.

[@juleshorse9056]

Thanks, clear, helpful.

[@yimmuy]

i wanna ask that it have a settings or a program that make red exit fully exits app or not? it annoys me very much even i use mac for 5 years now.I like to fully closed it because my mac only have 8GB of ram and i like to open chrome tab like 30 tabs.

[@macmost]

Just use Command+Q.

[@draughonc]

Please explain why I have to Force Quit the Mail app.

[@macmost]

I don't know why that is happening for you. What happens if you just choose Mail, Quit?

[@draughonc]

@@macmost Nothing. My google research said this was common and required Force Quit

[@macmost]

@@draughonc Stop using Force Quit. Next time, just quit normally. If it takes more than a minute, go to Window, Activity to see what it is doing. It is probably syncing with the server before closing out. But when you force-quit it corrupts the sync and makes it worse, so it takes long the next time too. Just quit, wait. Let it sit.

[@natiakerdzaia4420]

Hey everyone, I've been experiencing some frustrating issues with my browsers lately, including Chrome, Opera, and even Safari. Whenever I close the browsers using the close x button, they fail to reopen the last opened tabs, despite having changed the settings to do so. Additionally, when I quit any of these browsers, none of the login information is saved. I've tried various troubleshooting steps like reinstalling the browsers, updating my system, and clearing cache and cookies, but unfortunately, nothing seems to resolve the problem. Has anyone else encountered similar issues across multiple browsers? If so, I'd greatly appreciate any advice or solutions you might have. Thanks in advance!

[@macmost]

When you click the X button it closes that window. It doesn't quit the app. You are essentially saying to the app: close this window and all of its tab, but leave the app running so I can do something else like open a new window. Instead, quit the app and with your settings set to not close windows when quitting the app will resume with the old window the next time you launch it. See kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5XRcpqwh8mVg6c As for login information not being saved, does that happen with all sites? That almost sounds like you are opening new Private (Incognito) windows instead of regular ones. Or, it could be the site just is quick in logging you out (like banking sites and such).

[@sergeya]

What I’m starting to hate about macOS is general inconsistency in Apple’s very own apps. Most of the times closing windows doesn’t quit the app, but sometimes it does. This goes on and on with hot keys and other stuff.

[@Ferrichrome]

Yeah this really is annoying, and they should fix it

[@modelisme-life6580]

l'une des choses qui me dérange le plus depuis mon passage à macOS... que ce fameux bouton rouge n'ait pas une action définie mais dépende de l'app si ça ferme complètement ou juste le visuel au final je ne l'utilise pas; si c'est pour fermer le visuel je réduis l'app sinon je quitte avec command q. Je sais qu'on est nombreux à trouver cela étrange, si seulement Apple nous écoutait et changeait ça ...

[@macmost]

Think of it this way: The red button always closes the window. The red button is completely consistent in this. But some apps will quit when there is no window left, and other apps won't.

[@ruimartinho7191]

Hi Gary, thanks for another excellent video. I would like to know your opinion about the BuhoCleaner app. I know that for app from AppStore, no app is required but for fully uninstall third party apps, it is required. Are there any alternatives? Thanks for your reply.

[@macmost]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5TYZntpj8usp7M

[@ruimartinho7191]

@@macmost Hi Gary. Thank you for your answer. I agree with you, but when third-party applications are deleted, there are files that remain on the system. Thanks and Merry Christmas

[@macmost]

@@ruimartinho7191 They shouldn't. But yes some do. Often these are tiny little preference files. Not worth your time.

[@ruimartinho7191]

@@macmost Ok, Gary. Thank you for your answer.

[@nicholashunt5230]

I use an application called "RedQuits" to restore the Windows behavior. It hasn't been updated in many years, but right now, it works great. I would post the link here, but KZbin likes to automatically delete comments that contain links. 🤷 Also, I think it would be great if you could make a KZbin video like this one, but for the green button. 🙂

[@EuphoricPentagram]

ok wow the more o think of this the more i like how when you close an app its closer to closing an app on a phone then on windows ✌️

[@stehlealexander]

after 15 years with Mac OS I got it, more or less ;-) :-D - thanks!

[@cgazlan]

New sub here 🎉🎉🎉... Still new to the mac

[@natbarmore]

I’m not sold that the MSWindows way has _any_ real advantages. Sure, you can close an application by clicking one button. But if you’re going to use your mouse anyway, you could also click the menu and “Exit”, which is only 2 clicks. (And the equivalent menu option is only 1 click to do the same on macOS.) And if you’re going to use the keyboard, both OSes have the option to either quit an application or just close a window with a single key-chord. (Though on macOS it’s much closer to consistent: ⌘-W generally doesn’t do anything in apps where you can’t close the window without quitting the app; whether Alt+F4 or Ctrl+F4 will close a window or quit an app is kinda a crapshoot on MSWindows.) So everything you can do on MSWindows you can _also_ do on macOS, with the same level of efficiency and either the same level of ease or only _slightly_ less (you might have to wiggle your mouse a little between when you press the mouse button and when you release it), but there’s a very useful use-case on macOS that is tricky or impossible [depends on the specific application] to do on MSWindows. And it’s not just big apps like Xcode or Photoshop. Launching MSWord or Excel on Windows 10 _also_ takes a noticeable amount of time, and those are the two apps I’m most likely to finish a document in but want to keep working in. Plus, there’s a setting in macOS to auto-quit applications with no open windows, if that’s _really_ what you want (but, like I said, I can’t see any advantages to it).

[@xitrumlon]

closing but not quitting makes me confuse, then closing and minimizing button are the same

[@macmost]

One closes the document. The other keeps the document open but hides the window in the Dock, ready for you to switch back to it or unhide it again.

[@reynaldoreyes375]

The trouble is when there are too many apps open and the ram runs out of memory, one would encounter windows closing all of a sudden. So disconcerting. I prefer apps to quit when all the windows are all closed.

[@Clodd1]

It's weird, but useful. If you accidentally close a window, you won't lose your work. It doesn’t mean I like it though.

[@HowieIsaacks]

Great video! I'm a 30 year + Mac user and Apple certified but you occasionally mention something that I either didn't know or I forgot about it. It's confusing for Windows users at first but the Mac experience is better. One thing that wasn't pointed out here was that with Macs it isn't necessary to shut down apps when you're done with a task. macOS is very good at managing hardware resources. Memory is shifted away from apps that haven't been used for a while to apps that actually need the memory. Windows is supposed to be able to handle this but it doesn't do it very well. That said, I developed a habit of shutting down apps a long time ago. I don't really need to. Both of my Macs have more memory installed than the average personal computer has so I can leave apps running as much as I want.

I still prefer Windows' X button to close an app. I agree with the others that Windows does it better on this front.

[@zoltanzana]

You cannot close an app, you quit an app, what you close is a window.

[@babeyoulove1883]

Well done - Very useful.. Thank you

[@ataksnajpera]

Windows and Linux does it much better. The idea that toolbox on top of the screen is not a part of running application's window is stupid as F.

[@bjarnehansen1101]

How does linux do this 'better'? KDE>>GlobalMenu>>On and afaik Gnome has their own apis for that aswell

[@marcusaureliusf]

I see the need for the exceptions: it doesn't make much sense to have a calculator or game with no windows open just waiting for File->New. Alass it makes the whole experience inconsistent.

[@encycl07pedia-]

Because it's a wasteful, heavy OS that's not programmed well. I remember back in the 1990s when memory was much more limited and my family Mac would crash all the time because they didn't do real multitasking and closing a window left the program running in memory. The use cases for the default Mac OS window close behavior are so niche that only people who know how to use computers would use them, and people who know how to use computers don't use Macs.

[@V100X]

It makes more sense for me now, but it still not an intuitive feature

[@MsBellbois]

Please explain why Photos doesn’t behave this way? Thanks. Chris

[@macmost]

Because it is a one-window app, not a window-per-document app. I mention this in the video.

[@cousins_bellic]

3:13 Crtl + N 🤣

[@mikldude9376]

I wouldn't say it's confusing not quitting ...... infuriating covers it more , even deleting a pic indoor photo album seems to add extra steps , also on a pc you don't have to quit you can just grab another tab , or right click and duplicate a window . coming from a pc or android Mac OS seems like a pain in the ass in a lot of ways.

[@uncletrick1]

My employer switched from Windows PCs to Macs and this behavior in Mac drives me nuts. Otherwise, I like it.

[@desertpatient]

Thanks bunches

[@pierreforget3357]

Very nice to have the windows coming back as they were when you reopen the app. Very nice if one of the Safari pages is stuck on a scammer page. LOL

[@macmost]

Hold Shift and start Safari to cancel re-opening tabs.