Why Don’t Pros Throw Short Pin Reactive Balls? | Ballsplanations Ep.8

[@Drewbert101]

A short pattern part 2 would be great to see the difference between the 2 balls since that is the majority of when urethane gets used

[@gsssavage720]

Agreed. Another thing would be to include a symmetric ball with a 2” pin as that would be interesting to see, and if Mikey really wanted to go the extra mile, have a 2” pin high diff sym (something like a P2 or Optimum) and a 2” pin low diff sym (IQ Tour).

[@relaxative2939]

Gotta love the A-2 turret clutch screaming in the background.

[@daviddeiss7907]

I'm low rev and low speed and bowl in a house that is on the dryer side of medium, and I use a short pin ball ,and the thing I like about the short pin ball is it allows me to play more up the boards with a high performance ball that hits with good carry. I've tried using weaker equipment that doesn't hook as much, and they are ok, but nothing like the short pin and when the shot ends up getting dry and I absolutely have no choice but to move left, then I just soften up and slow hook it. It doesn't always work out. But if it wasn't for a short pin ball I would have to either bowl with weak balls or start way more left than I am comfortable with a high performance ball. I'm not a pro and I'm not playing sport patterns , but I'm sure glad to have a short pin ball.

[@JustChuck1t]

These videos are great. Especially during this time where everyone else is making pba vlog videos. Keep up the great work Mikey.

[@Jbmccain86]

I got a short pin ball around a year ago to let me play right more. It did not disappoint! Biggest issue I came across was that it only worked in a small window so I’m only able to play with it during the first game (it had no energy at the pins as I would move left). I got a NU Hammer (drilled strong) in December and it has a very similar ball motion as the short pin but since it is drilled strong I can move around with it more. I’ve gotten so used to the NU that I haven’t been using my Short pin much at all. One benefit with the short pin vs the NU was that the short pin can break from carry down where the NU will not break. I am a high rev two hander and I like keeping my target outside 20

[@xxGlitterGunz]

I am a slightly speed dominant higher rev player (450 ish) with low tilt and like 40 degree axis rotation if i throw it naturally. I like short pins on weak cover asym balls with 2000-4000 surface range. a 2 inch pin-PAP ball helps me to be able to stay in my sweet spot and the layout blends out the over/under reactions i would see during transition as long as it has enough surface. It doesn't come out of the bag often, but it has a place. When I can throw it, it will out-carry any urethane ball in my hand, but that is considering I have not thrown any urethane newer than a Storm Natural yet (I throw a pink or purple faball hammer). BUT on conditions like Cheetah, urethane or pin down reactive with surface will always be my go to over short pin. Just throwing my experience out there, hopefully it paints a more clear picture for someone

[@andrewchandler9197]

I like the short pin reactive for after I get out of urethane, or on house shots to blend the cliff and stay farther right.

[@01C5SemperFi]

I have about 5 balls drilled short pin from solids to hybrids as well as asymmetric to symetric balls. Reason behind this is due to my house having burned heads and the refusal by the staff to increase the volume of oil to combat it. For the most part is due to me not able to throw pin down layouts. So that's my reason behind the short pin layout.

[@NOOBandBRO]

If you use a frequency cut you could get rid of the whine sound. Good video though :P

[@2handlife200]

Would you recommend either for controlling extremely cliffed house shots? If not can you do a video on that?

[@krazekilla224]

If you do a Pt 2, could you elaborate some on what kind of balls (RG, diff, Asym, sym, hybrid, pearl, solid, etc) would be best for a short pin layout? Also maybe a suggestion for layout numbers?

[@rodennis418]

Would love to see the comparison on a traditional thane pattern

[@BuzzsawBrent]

Please do a Part 2 on short pattern!

[@Drewbert101]

When you say low-rev, what number would you start qualifying low vs medium Rev rate? With Rev rates these days in the 500-600s, people that used to have high Rev rates are now in the middle range.

[@tmtmtlsml]

I had this thought as well. Does "lower" rev rate mean lower than tour standards, or lower than house league standards?

[@scottaustin4015]

Gotta do a part 2 on a short pattern

[@BowlChad]

You are so wise, sensei! Do you see a difference between using a short pin, large core reactive versus a short pin, smaller or higher RG core?

[@jefferydaniels6717]

Different oil patterns (no massive free hook outside) and much higher average rev rates which makes Urethane much more effective.

[@JoseBernardoHernandezLlergo]

Layout of fast pitch?

[@FunnyMoney99]

How about a long pin, low flare layout on reactive? Any difference between that and that short pin?

[@tvbowlingsupply]

Will go very straight through the front part of the lane, and given enough friction, will hook quite a bit downlane due to energy retention. So basically the opposite of the short pin

[@harveywarne9030]

Keep hearing resin doesn't track oil down lane....if they both flare the same and you wipe the ball off...hiw does one track more? In the secind and a half...how much oil can resin absorb? Really like your presentations.

[@tvbowlingsupply]

It’s more about flare. A ball that flares won’t carry as much oil downlane compared to one that doesn’t flare, regardless of reactive or urethane. Oil will just sit on the cover of urethane a lot longer than reactive

[@airammitchell682]

With the pin to pap controlling flare amounts, with a strong enough pin, can you not get the whatever cover to dig harder to get close to that dig of a urethane with a more moderate pin position?

[@tvbowlingsupply]

It won’t be as progressive of a hook phase than the urethane combination of cover and low flare. The short pin will want to go much straighter down the lane, especially while giving it angle

[@airammitchell682]

@tvbowlingsupply ah so it'll use more it energy trying to create the same shape and have nothing left for the backend?

[@tvbowlingsupply]

@@airammitchell682 it has seemed that way with my testing!

[@airammitchell682]

@@tvbowlingsupply thanks for the insight

[@airammitchell682]

Maybe a short pin on a weaker core might help with that, like a symmetric

[@TeamThrowItBetter]

Would you think a short pin would be a better option for say Nationals for a lower rev rate bowler??

[@tvbowlingsupply]

Sure! That was mentioned briefly in the video as well!

[@TeamThrowItBetter]

​@@tvbowlingsupplymy wife has a lower rev rate. I sit around 480-485. I stay away from shorter pins mainly. Willing to try them though

[@brianlevandowski3167]

I want to see a summit peak short pin 60 x 2-1/4 x 30 part 2

[@rock98931]

my Brunswick True Motion urethane flares 4-5", so urethane balls can still flare if they have a core and layout

[@rock98931]

flare also just depends on how you release it

[@tvbowlingsupply]

Yes they can. Just using my favorite urethane ball for example. And also the most popular urethanes currently don’t flare so it seemed a good choice for comparison for the majority

[@xPandora__]

Id rather just throw a strong reactive like a harsh reality than a short pin reactive or urethane on top of everyone throwing urethane since the ball shouldnt have issues going through the carry down from urethane where a short pin reactive might (correct me if im wrong)

[@ripvanrevs]

Matt in the match play right now!

[@CliftonDon74]

Urethang on everythang! 😊

[@gabriel11earl]

may i know your layout in urethane with your PAP.... htank you in advance

[@michaeltovrea7947]

Love the jersey.

[@ibrahimmasood1995]

I just found out that since my pap changed, all my strong balls have turned into short pin reactive while my weak ball has the largest pin to pap

[@erici9025]

Great miss information. Keep it coming. Tell us more about how kicking the cg out is noticable by pros 🤦🏻

[@tvbowlingsupply]

It certainly is, don’t know what to tell you🤷🏼‍♂️

[@LinuxScouser]

I feel like saying "urethane balls don't flare" is pretty misleading. I agree coverstock is the biggest factor, that's what physically touching the lane. But flaring is more due to the core design. You could take an iQ Tour and throw a short pin layout on it and it would flare less than say a Hot Cell even though that's a urethane ball.

[@tvbowlingsupply]

True. Was just referencing this specific case where my fast pitch doesn’t flare

[@BuzzsawBrent]

Thank you for finally doing this ball comparison video!❤😊

[@robertwar7814]

Pick a symmetrical core solid cover stock that’s weaker and sand it down to 500 like the urethane ball is

[@jamesfriday3716]

It's still nothing like urthane.

[@erniesautomotiveperformanc9252]

So urethane can be thrown the majority of the time

[@vance836]

There is a huge flaw with this comparison. First off, if you want a urethane like reaction from a reactive ball you are not going for the highest performing pearl in the line. That is just stupid. You would most likely go with something in the mid performance category or even lower. You should have used something like a Hustle X-Ray or at most something like an X-Ponent. Another option could even be an IQ Tour but take the surface down to 1000. But trying to take a high end asym pearl and trying to get it to roll like a urethane is a losing cause before you even step on the lane. As a two hander I have had a few short pin balls and had some pretty good success without the need for a urethane.

[@tvbowlingsupply]

First off, Magic Gem isn’t a pearl. Second, I took one of the earliest hooking balls on the market to compare because urethane are the earliest hooking balls on the market. Why would I use a weaker cover mid/low range ball that would get further down the lane to mimic urethane reaction?

[@vance836]

@@tvbowlingsupply Either way. Urethane might be the earliest hooking but far from the strongest overall. The main reason for such an early hook is because of the surface being so rough. How often do you guys use urethane at 4000 grit? Most reactives now have softer covers than urethane under the new rules. A reactive ball with a 74 hardness at 500 grit should read as fast as a urethane at 78 hardness. Wonder what the IQ 78U would look like at 4000 surface which is a stock IQ Tour Solid. If you took an X-Ray or Xponent and matched the surface of a urethane (typically 500-1000); you could make that cover read the first 20-30 feet in a similar fashion. That Magic Gem will run circles upon circles around a urethane. The whole idea behind a short pin is to get the ball to emulate a urethane. If you are more speed dominate you could even go Phaze 2 with a short pin. Next time try this comparison. Go with an IQ 78U and an X-Ray with a short pin and take the surface to 500-1000 and throw them side by side. Be willing to bet they are closer than you would think. X-Ray may still be a touch cleaner but the overall look will be pretty close.

[@tvbowlingsupply]

@@vance836 feel free to make a video and show us! But I respectfully disagree with the fact you say urethane isn’t the earliest hooking coverstock there is.

[@theb2694]

​@@vance836They might look somewhat similiar on a house shot.On the other hand, flatter patterns will really show that no matter what layout and surface you have on a reactive, it is still going to do reactive things.

[@rock98931]

just rolling fwd more

[@alexreed5010]

What happened to Mondays with Mikey

[@tvbowlingsupply]

Couple of scheduling conflicts these past two weeks but we’ll be back next week!

[@jeffreykidwell3335]

i dont own a urethane ball and carry a 200 average , my reactive works fine

[@enru8413]

like your videos man but first explain why to like subscribe before asking, doing that in first minute of video we have no clue what you will say

[@stevenwilson8067]

First comment is first

[@PapaPorpoise247]

First reply is first

[@nickp300z]

Pretty sure Ryan Ciminelli won with a short pin ball

[@johnnyrock852]

Interesting perspective on layouts controlling exiti g the pattern. Ben so much debate on this topic lately. As a rookie bowler, I haven't used either a Urethane of a short pin layout.

[@machinethesun9243]

Pro men may not use a short pin layout, but plenty of senior men use them very effectively, so do women of all ages including pro women. Surprised as a pro shop operator you aren't drilling a lot of short pin layouts.

[@tvbowlingsupply]

We have! It was mentioned that they can be very useful for lower ball speed players

[@MinhDucLE-xo1tz]

coverstock is about 80% of ball reaction so layout is about 5/10% ?......most of people don;'t need the proshop operator for so little difference,especially on house shot so their job is dead!

[@travismalakowsky759]

Lol nice try