Why Electric Buses Are Far More Important Than Teslas

[@bigbadjohn10]

The key thing is that in city centres the high density of buses, mostly idling, impacts air quality. In one area of London a trial using electric and hybrid buses reduced pollution levels below the critical level. While it will take some years to change the whole fleet, putting the electric buses in the most polluted areas makes sense.

[@celeduc]

Buses work best when cars are removed from the road, which are why dedicated bus lanes are so effective.

[@r0z3d]

Where in London is this?

[@bigbadjohn10]

Apricity I think it was Putney high street, I guess a restricted area so they could do it with a limited number of ultra low emission buses and also monitor the air quality.

[@AmbientMorality]

@@celeduc Yep. Also, three-door buses (some cities still don't have those...), all-door boarding, transit signal prioritization...

[@rahimjoseph211]

Route 36 from New Cross to Queens Park was also trialing electric buses not too long ago

[@bkrider19]

I live in Zhuhai in southwestern China near Macau and Hong Kong, and most of the public buses are electric, with charge stations at their terminal stops all over the place. I can tell you that the difference in ride between electric and ice bus is night and day: smoother, quieter, faster acceleration, much less stress for the driver who no longer has to shift gears all day long. Best of all, when you are waiting at a bus stop for your number to come along, buses for other routes slow down, stop, and take off with very little sound and absolutely no fumes! About half the taxis are electric, and other "smart car" style cars are running around. Electric bicycles, segues and small motorbikes have been dominant here since I first arrived 5 years ago. I'm still wondering why they aren't so common in the United States because here they are cheap, fast and easy to use. As far as EVs are concerned, China is about 5 to 10 years ahead of the US, with the exception of Tesla of course.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

That sounds awesome. I wish I lived in an advanced country like yours.

[@TaiViinikka]

Thanks for the report! I look forward to some EV buses here in Toronto later this year, and I'm glad to hear that it's smoother, because that's a big disadvantage of buses at present.

[@bkrider19]

@@incognitotorpedo42 Most countries are advancing, just in different ways. I'd rather live in Europe or Japan than China, but such is life.

[@paparoysworkshop]

And how many millions of tons of coal is being burnt to generate the electricity? I think China is leading the world in development of thorium reactors. If and when they accomplish that, then electricity will truly be pollution free. Until then, it's only producing the pollution in a different part of the county.

[@bkrider19]

@@paparoysworkshop This issue has been addressed years ago. EVs consume less energy and create less pollution than ICE vehicles even if the electricity is produced by fossil fuel power plants. You can find plenty of articles and even youtube videos that explain this in detail.

[@MarkSBurgunder]

School buses are another type of bus that are a perfect example where an electric bus makes a lot of sense. From my experience driving school buses on a number of different routes and different locations, none of these buses do more than 150km per trip, with my current route (and many others I have driven before) doing less than 50 km per trip. These short trip distances and the fact that most of these buses are not doing any work, i.e. sitting in a depot, between the morning and afternoon trips, school buses in generally wouldn't even need huge battery capacity as they could be recharge during the day while sitting in the depot. Best part is, that here in sunny Queensland we've got a lot of sunshine on most days which means that electric school buses could basically be recharged with "free" electrons from the sun. What this means is that for a school bus operator with electric buses and enough solar or other renewable energey sources their main expenses would end up being an upfront capital expenditure (capex) and the operational expenses (opex) would be largely diminished. This in turn making budgeting a bit easier... and what business wouldn't like that! To be honest, I believe any school bus operator buying a new fossil fueled bus now is just plain crazy!

[@cpufreak101]

Want to point one thing out, in my area of the US the bus parking lot even already has electricity out to each individual parking space for the engine block heaters

[@andrewsteinhaus8267]

It annoys me to all the kids lining up by the bus, just to be breathing in all the exhaust fumes. An electric or hydrogen bus, seems so much healthier.

[@robertlee8805]

Mark S Burgunder I totally agree. Post some Electric School Bus companies here and in your sicial media so you can encourage your municipalities to move into that direction.

[@zaired]

Here in Quebec there is a company called Lion Electric, and they are making 100+ miles range electric buses and there are huge incentive to get them (100 000$ per bus /300 000$ bus) and they are catching on pretty quick because I saw a few in my home town and they are easy to recongnize because of a blue bumper

[@jimmyjohn8008]

Been thinking about them converting to natural gas buses for years now... surprised Marta has it and I notice I dont smell the sulfur rich desiel

[@steveurbach3093]

Buses stop and accelerate briskly frequently. Acceleration is where the emissions peak. E-Buses reduce this and have no emissions while taking on passengers. Just look at all the places that have had electric trams for decades. A plugin Bus gets rid of the tether to the overhead (or 3rd rail). And thinking outside the current box: There is room for a couple of KW of PV's on the roofs to power accessories during the day

[@theuncalledfor]

@@markplott4820 I feel like many of the issues with battery swapping stations for privately owned cars would be entirely missing for an electric bus company. Who owns the batteries? The bus company. How do you make sure you don't get stuck with some trashy, old, degraded battery? You don't need to, all the batteries are owned by the bus company anyway. I feel this makes long-range electric buses pretty viable, if and when the swapping and recharge infrastructure is in place.

[@AmbientMorality]

@@markplott4820 More trolleybuses might be nice too, less batteries meaning lower manufacturing environmental cost. Obviously a higher capital investment though

[@TillDerWilly]

Also, don't undererstimate the noise pollution of ICE buses.

[@larshelmin]

TillDerWilly I was writing the same as you posted it 😀

[@ravinagaraj7003]

Electric vehicles make noise too, at between 10 KHz and 20 KHz. Most humans can't hear that noise but your pet will want to kill itself

[@varunjaihind3904]

@@ravinagaraj7003 Pets hate the noise when it is closer to their upper limit. Dog's upper limit is 45KHz. So, they should be fine.

[@TheGerm24]

Buses also put out a lot of heat just idling. It gets pretty uncomfortable standing near one in the Texas summer. EV buses should release much less heat "idling."

[@MarkSBurgunder]

The noise inside and ICE bus is also quite significan... especially from a drivers perspective.

[@webstertippingpoint572]

I'm from a small city in China, all buses here have been switched to electricity, they are noiseless, cleaner, ppl love them.

[@FrostyAUT]

They're only "clean" when electricity is produced from renewable sources. Chances are high that your buses are powered by electricity from coal.

[@larshelmin]

Electric buses are coming to several cities in southern Sweden fast now. Since 2016, city of Ängelholm has 60% BEV buses, first as test before other cities. Landskrona has gone 100% electric since February, Malmö has one bus line electric, Helsingborg will in summer get one main bus line electric, Ystad will in summer get EV buses, Trelleborg will go 100% electric i December... One thing I almost never hear about is that electric buses have a much lower noise level than diesel buses, noise pollution is an argument as good as any!

[@keriford54]

I wish I was seeing more of them in New Zealand. Agree about the noise, petrol and diesel buses are noisy and smelly. In Wellington City we used to have electric trolley buses and I always liked how smooth and quiet they were.

[@earnmyturns6305]

who is the maker of these buses?

[@larshelmin]

earnmyturns Mostly BYD so far, some Volvo also ( Malmö).

[@robertlee8805]

Ah your country is much more progressing than the U.S. We have a monster who's destroying everything that the last administration had accomplished in this subject. Wishing we had a government willing to go against the fossil fuel industry.

[@danielbencar4068]

In Sweden 1 Liter Diesel or petrol cost 16 kr or 1.6 dollars for 1 L.. saving fuel cost is a big bussiness here !!👍

[@rowanbroekman3929]

They also have the perfect driving style for electric driving, speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down, all day long.

[@michelangelobuonarroti916]

Along with a defined route, so charging infrastructure is easy to place.

[@kornkernel2232]

@@michelangelobuonarroti916 Yeah, they can install charging stations on major stops where bus tends to stop longer. Electric Bus is indeed a perfect start for electric vehicles to flourish, except for trains and trams.

[@webstertippingpoint572]

Instant speeding up, without the regular delay for power transmission.

[@Chilukar]

For once this is something that we are on track with where I live (Chile). We have recently bought the largest electric bus fleet in Latin America: 200 to start with. The plan is to eventually change all 6600 busses in Santiago and that this will push regional providers to electrify.

[@Chilukar]

@@xxwookey Santiago is 7million, so is a fairly big city. In general Chile is way behind - we have 50 public ev chargers (including 7kw!) And that covers 500km of 3000km length of the country (it is actually 4000km long, but the last 1000km are basically nature reserves and have no roads connecting to the southernmost city of Punta Arenas) We also have no incentives and EVs are actually taxed more as road tax depends on purchase price. Small wonder that we sold 180 EVs (out of a market of 400,000 vehicles). Yes, we bought more electric busses than electric cars last year. 😢

[@TaiViinikka]

I think you are ahead of everyone outside of China, Chilukar! Well done! Toronto, Canada is on the map now too. We should have 250 BEV buses in our pilot program by the end of 2019. Also some interesting messing about with large fixed storage batteries since we don't have enough network grid capacity to charge those buses in the bus barns overnight. urbantoronto.ca/news/2018/11/ttc-gearing-electric-and-hybrid-electric-bus-fleet

[@x8business268]

That's awesome! Never been to Chile but I hear only good things about your country. Btw, what buses are they? Which company, BYD? We are thinking of doing the same in our country.

[@Chilukar]

@@x8business268 BYD and Yutong. I think there are 100 of each, partly to see how they perform relative to each other.

[@rashidshahidi7245]

There are about 80 electric buses running in kolkata as of today, 100 more have been ordered

[@rahuljha3965]

in india 125+GWH of electricity will be from solar in 2022

[@jamespaul2587]

Rahul Jha, that is truly awesome and something to be very proud of. Is it mostly large scale solar installations, or are there multiple smaller panels in place?

[@rahuljha3965]

@@jamespaul2587 combination of both ,60-40 (Large scale and small panels respectively) govt provides huge subsidy for installation plus maintenance will be from installing company and payments inform of electricity you export

[@rahuljha3965]

@@markplott4820 ??

[@ContraVsGigi]

That is great, but I'd hope for more nuclear, as solar is not reliable. You need something one can push a button to produce electricity without polluting during bad weather, night time, etc. In 2016 (I think it was 2016), Germany invested more in solar, more in wind, but ended up making less electricity with those 2 because of the natural conditions that year; so more money, but less electricity. That might work, but might not, too. And when it does not work, a good solution should be there, and that should not be coal or oil.

[@shishirkumarsky]

@Rahul Jha It is adani project. It is world's largest solar plant.

[@IBMara]

Garbage trucks are another place where electric power would have a big impact.

[@cretumarius9616]

Exactly busses and truck should be the first city vehicles that go 100% electric

[@AS-ln3pl]

We just got our first electric bus here in a small city in Norway!

[@earnmyturns6305]

what brand names are these buses?

[@AS-ln3pl]

@@earnmyturns6305 Volvo. They use it on a line that is 10-20 km long and it charges at the bus station with the same charging station as 01:45

[@supportervandeeuropeseunie1625]

Just one bus? Here in the Netherlands nearly the entire city of Eindhoven is being serviced by electric buses for 2 years and many other towns and cities are getting their own electric buses now.

[@AS-ln3pl]

@@supportervandeeuropeseunie1625 I know. They are kinda slow. They had the charger in place for over a year. I guess its a waiting list for the buses?

[@bandvitromania9642]

We got in a small city of Romania Satu Mare 1 or 2 Iveco electric buses!

[@GreenJimll]

As a regular bus user (I can't drive) I'd love to see more electric buses operating.here. I've nudged our local bus company but so far no luck. Hopefully the economic argument will win them over when they next have a fleet refresh.

[@IBMara]

Get your family, friends and neighbors to pursue the city and bus companies.

[@Flipflop324]

Take a look at our campaign at www.plugincanada.ca/ - feel free to copy our resources and reuse the content #ebusottawa

[@michaelwatson113]

Edmonton, Canada has an order in for 50 electric busses with deliveries to begin in a few weeks. This is in addition to the even more energy efficient light rail system.

[@earnmyturns6305]

Are the made by the Canadian/American manufacturer New Flyer Industries?

[@michaelwatson113]

@@earnmyturns6305 According to the city of Edmonton website, the buses will be supplied by a company called Proterra, a California company.

[@shadowpod13]

I'm here in Edmonton and didn't know this. Awesome to hear. I sort of feared that with "oil industry" being the thing going for electric stuff would be unpopular, but it's really awesome and nice to hear.

[@haroldb1856]

It will be interesting to see how they hold up in cold weather.

[@wobby1516]

Castellon in Spain uses trolley buses which pick up power through an arm up onto a cable above to charge it’s on board battery pack, Then run through the narrow streets on pure electric from said battery’s before recharging when outside the centre of the city whilst travelling through the suburbs, it’s a brilliant system similar to the old London trolley buses of the passed.

[@wobby1516]

Byron Deithrick Their also use on the outskirts of Castellon, however through the town the narrow roads don’t lend themselves to safe overhead power cables hence the batteries.

[@georgobergfell]

That is ia my favorite as well, Switzerland is using overhead cables for decades now, Combine that with a small battery and maybe a combustion engine for overland routes and your possibilities are endless.

[@dzonikg]

Trolleybuss open in Belgrade in 1950..on awerage they are 6 times less expensive to use then diesel buses ..and extremely durable..most are in service for 50 years with almost zero maintenance ...most are all models who have small batterie that can go 500m with out electric contact but newer can go 15-20km with out grid overhead

[@wobby1516]

dzonikg When I was a child back in the 50s we had both trolly buses and trams around London. Then some forward thinking politicians decided to scrap them. Now slowly there coming back. I was born in the seaside town of Blackpool, it was famous for its beautiful trams again mostly all scraped. Just a few run along the front for tourists, what a shame.

[@wobby1516]

dzonikg It seems Belgrade was more forward thinking and kept it Trollybus system, its just a shame the UK scrapped most of its we would have less of a pollution problem if all our buses were electric or a combination of electric and ICE.

[@samguapo4573]

Actually electric trains are way ahead but people don't seem to notice that they're electric :) . With millions of people travelling in trains every single day, for most countries, the most popular form of transport is electric (the train).

[@dzonikg]

Trolleybus are also electric ..in Belgrade there are from 50s ,work in combination with trams ..and they incredibly durable ..its normal that they are in service every day for 50 years with almost zero maintenance

[@samguapo4573]

@@dzonikg yes they are and yet the public and industry takes them for granted.

[@adrianhoiland20]

Yea Trolleybuses, Trams and Trains are even more Eco-friendly than Batterybuses due to having Overheadwires going to Electric Motor and no heavy acid battery

[@solentbum]

In Beijing they have some rather good trolley buses that also have a battery . Giving an off line capability and allowing flexibility of local routing . They also have self connecting connectors which can go online without the buses stopping. Glad to say they are looking at trolley buses returning to Portsmouth (UK) in the future.

[@marknelson463]

Step by step things will change

[@bernardbromell4072]

Everything that was stated in this video about why electric buses are far better than (private) electric cars also applies to electric cars used for a passenger service. This reality was realised by a company named OHPEC which operated in Auckland, New Zealand using Tesla Model X vehicles. Using a Model X as a passenger service vehicle reduces emissions 10-20 times as much as using the same vehicle for private use. Using it as a high occupancy vehicle (when appropriate) reduces emissions 20-50 times as much. The video is correct when stating that the EV media pretty much ignores this reality and promotes private EV use while pretty much ignoring passenger service use. It is particularly true when covering Tesla. OHPEC had to cease operating because in Nov 2017 Tesla banned vehicles from Supercharging if used as a passenger service. i.e. Tesla deliberately obstructed, to the point of preventing, the very gains that are specified in this video. The video also suggested that Tesla may want to produce an electric bus. Tesla were going to produce a minibus based on the Model X platform but no longer mention it. We really do need to promote electric passenger services above private use if we are serious about reducing emissions, reducing congestion and democratising access to EV transport.

[@celeduc]

Yeah, it appears their business model is selling cars, not selling trips. It's a pity, but then it is a for-profit enterprise.

[@onoff314]

Electric buses are awesome, they are sooo much quieter and no vibrations compared to diesel beasts

[@WyvernApalis]

And when they take off from a stop you don't have a massive cloud of exhaust in your face, it's just better in every way

[@jamespaul2587]

Excellent video Nikki. Another benefit is busses may give many people their first experience with an electric vehicle, thereby increasing awareness and encouraging greater adoption of electric cars or ebikes for those in the market for a personal vehicle.

[@TassieEV]

Great episode Nikki. Wish my local Metro Service had any leadership, wrote them once and their answer was 'clean diesel' at the time, was before the big Diesel-Gate scandal with VW so whether they still think that unsure. I also ride my bicycle and hate when buses go past, noisy, smelly and horrible. Look forward to the day my local Metro service is told to switch as they won't go voluntarily into the future that I can bet on.

[@porirvian8457]

We got 30 electric double-decker buses here in Wellington, and they seem to be doing well despite the steep hills around the city. I adore how quiet they are, especially as they accelerate down the street, the only noises you hear are the tyres and a slight humming of the electrics.

[@MrFester]

Wonder what that number is for UPS/FedEx USPS delivery trucks.

[@dosmastrify]

It is 9 for a run of the mill non hybrid ups vehicle. This is why ups has the largest fleet of alternative fuel vehicles. Yes i work there.

[@dosmastrify]

I think the postal trucks, while smaller, still do as badly or worse due to so much time idling as the driver opens the mailbox and places mail in, and closes mailbox

[@bernardfinucane2061]

I'm a big Tesla fan, but this makes a lot of sense.

[@michelangelobuonarroti916]

Yeah, it is somewhat disappointing that electric buses are not in the Tesla lineup. Maybe they compete with the Boring plans.

[@Psi-Storm]

It will reduce smog in the big cities, but it won't change much in the great picture. Busses use only 1.5% of the total fuel consumed. Also they need to be recharged during the day in fast bursts, straining the power grid. Not the best for green energy generation, so you swap from diesel to coal/gas/nuclear. Small transporters like delivery trucks use 10% of the total fuel and are a great way to make change. These vehicles also get swapped out much faster.

[@bernardfinucane2061]

@@Psi-Storm I doubt recharging during the day is much of a problem as solar energy is increasingly available. EVs are three times as efficient as diesel, so it is not simply switching from one form of fuel to another.

[@afunguynamedkawhi7959]

I am a converted Elon Musk fan. I usually don't like big personalities but only very few people can match his contribution to the general US society. Fvck those billionaire hedge fund managers.

[@FarouqArifin]

Sure Teslas or any EV cars are great, but not everyone could (and should not) afford the lifestyle of one car per household like in USA, not mentioning the problem of traffic congestion that will ever present, so electric public transport is still the ultimate way to a greener and better future.

[@robsengahay5614]

It’s hilarious that when I click on your videos and others such as Fully Charged I always get an advert for an ICE car. The algorithm not fully functioning 😂

[@celeduc]

They have such an awful product they have to pay for advertising :)

[@luongmaihunggia]

I got an ad for an electric race car, it's closer but still not really. I'm not into racing and most people aren't so the race car won't make any different.

[@ldever3]

I get a mattress ad. The same one over and over. How many beds do they think I have?

[@shadowpod13]

I end up with Car ads. But sometimes it's a hybrid or in rare cases an electric.

[@Bra-a-ains]

You should expand your definition of bus. In Kathmandu, 98% of Tempos are electric. These are smaller 6-seater buses with the entrance in the rear. However, they usually carry 10 people crammed inside with a couple more hanging onto the rear step. In Bangkok, the buses are smelly diesel. However, the tens of thousands of taxis are LNG.

[@AdamWrigley]

This channel is brilliant

[@Spawn223311]

I love the info this channel provides

[@cusman]

In addition to Bus carrying more people, it is also used all day long. These two factors combined is why it has higher Oil displacement than an electric car used by an individual average of 1-3 hours per day. I think it is fine for Tesla to focus on long range electric cars supported with growing supercharger network and solar systems supported with battery backup systems if other companies are already doing something to provide solution for shorter range city Bus use that are factoring in charging times once they complete their respective travel loops.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

Electric buses are wonderful. A wee note, though-- when comparing the number of barrels of fuel saved compared to cars, you would get numbers not wildly different with a diesel bus, because they displace so many cars. Electric buses are still an unqualified good thing.

[@gasdive]

The other thing is that you can buy hundreds of electric motorcycles for the price of one electric bus. So you shouldn't really compare 1000 electric busses with 1000 electric cars. Compare instead 1000 electric busses with 100 000 electric motorcycles.

[@epsospremium6088]

Electric buses are *very nice. They are quiet* and smell much nicer for the passenger. More cities should buy electric buses !

[@DevotionsVisage]

I was on an electric bus today. It goes through the city center and historic parts of the city. We only have a few of them. We also have a BYD e-bus factory and another chinese company partnering with a local manufacturer to make electric buses, so I expect to see a lot more of them.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Don't be surprised if that BYD falls apart. Better to go with NovaBus or New Flyer to certain longevity

[@abd4620]

Dont forget the advantage of regenerative braking in vehicles with high weight. Specially with frequent stopping thr brakes will last way longer, and a good chunk of the energy used to accelerate will be put back into the battery.

[@robsengahay5614]

One problem with ‘oil displacement’ and reducing demand for oil is that this leads to an over-supply and the price of oil falls. This in turn affects the viability of transport costs which is why switching over from fossil fuels will ultimately be a political battle that will not be solved by market forces alone.

[@aussiepyro]

Robsenga Hay This is true, however low prices also mean that it becomes unprofitable to extract oil from the harder to reach places (tar sands, shale, remote etc). Which given oil fields do eventually run out of cost effective, easily extracted supply, helps to offset the lower prices by reduced demand. So it's not all bad. Plus, on the political side you mention, for some places (Australia in particular) that import all their fuel, there's further incentive to increase energy security by reducing dependency on foreign sources, along with fluctuating price cycles (speaking from either a govt or business budgeting standpoint).

[@robsengahay5614]

aussiepyro Good points. Well, I am in Australia (Queensland) and if there is a country more enthusiastic about the internal combustion engine and large gas guzzlers - as I drive through clouds of diesel fumes on the highways every day - I don’t know where it is.

[@nannyoggsally]

What range per charge do new electric busses have?

[@Chilukar]

To the best of my knowledge it is normally about 240km (150miles) for urban busses, in my city, Santoago, Chile (7 million) that would be enough to cross the city 8 times. But it is a case of horses for courses I have seen some companies that quote ranges of 600km - I assume that would be for travel between cities. As always there are many variables, I assume quoted ranges are city driving, not highway and weather will affect quoted range. There are also other advantages to busses, I have seen a Swedish company that takes advantage of the large roof are and to put solar panels on which power the air con and ancillary systems, which helps a lot with autonomy.

[@grantdm]

We have had electric trolley buses in Vancouver since the 1950's. Moscow and a few other cities have them as well. They work very well in dense areas. In the suburbs we have diesel buses so this might work for that. But really, how much does it cost to put up electrical wires vs batteries in a fleet of buses?

[@naguoning]

In China busses are wildly more crowded than in the West on average. I don't have any stats on it, but it is REALLY obvious if you have spent time on both sides.

[@AlRoderick]

Ultimately it depends on where you are, there is some super crowded buses on the average college campus here in the US. It all depends on the availability of alternative forms of transportation.

[@davidlazarus67]

naguoning In most cities I think you find that buses are very convenient for billions of people daily.

[@robertm3951]

@@davidlazarus67 True, but they are pretty empty in the suburbs

[@Gh..o..s..t]

I've road grey hound may time bus was full on longer trips then shorter trips I know not a inter city bus but a bus is a bus. Lol

[@naguoning]

@@AlRoderick it would simply not be possible to get the same number of Americans on a bus as the number you get on some urban Chinese routes (intercity with reserved seating is different but even then they often seat more). I know it will annoy some Americans but it is a simple fact that on average Americans are bigger than Chinese. Also Chinese have a different sense of personal space (ie they don't have any) to the West or even some other Asian countries.

[@danielstapler4315]

While we are waiting for EV buses to arrive I wish that diesel buses would turn their engines off when they are sitting at the bus stop. Sometimes a bus waits for 5 to 10 minutes at some stops and idles the engine. There is some sort of BS reason for idling the engine when stationery ( I think back in 1964 somebody had trouble restarting the engine) If they need an extra lead acid battery or capacitors to start the bus or run the lights and maybe the AC for 5 minutes then surely they could do that. This is low hanging fruit.

[@danielstapler4315]

@@markplott4820 Thank you

[@bigjaytaylor8227]

In Vancouver we had electric trolly bus for the longest time. They were so quiet, you could sit right by the engine and not need to raise your voice to talk. But they slowly got phase out. I am not sure if there are any left. In 2009 there were still some on a few routes. Probably none left now.

[@ganz3995]

There are over 200 trolleybuses in Vancouver.

[@fredarendse4932]

Hmmm, re-inventing the wheel one could say... trolleybuses with Li-ion batteries! WOW!!! Which genius came up with that idea?

[@celeduc]

Without ugly catenaries.

[@hornkraft9438]

@@davidbeppler3032 : Edison? Only if you believe that Direct Current can power cities over long distances. You can thank Edison for inventing the Electric Chair, though. He proved his point, but they still went with Westinghouse anyway.

[@ignasb]

cool video. Would be nice to see one on the shipping industry.

[@macberry4048]

Jay Leno did two videos about electric buses a few years ago and nobody has said anything since. The buses in China have really become advanced using Ultracapacitors and batteries.

[@FrostyAUT]

Electric buses are great, but ONLY if the electricity comes from clean sources. Which sadly, isn't the case at all in China.

[@ezioauditore5616]

and china is the no1 in renewable and de-desertification, you got old fake news

[@Camiloken]

Noise and vibration is reduced. But what about charging? Wouldn’t charging time take a bus out of service for a few hours?

[@lucasbowering]

There is a big distinction between wired electric buses and battery electric buses. I live in Vancouver, Canada and almost all of our in town buses are hybrid wire electric with essentially a back-up CH4 engine. Wired electric buses have been common in lots of major cities for decades and battery electric buses are only becoming common now.

[@jur4x]

"wire electric"? Surely you mean trolleybus

[@lucasbowering]

jur4x I don't know the technical term, everyone here just calls it "the bus". Nobody I know in person calls anything a "trolleybus". Is that a bus that trolls you? JK, JK. Thank you @@jur4x

[@jur4x]

@@lucasbowering well, according to wikipedia, a trolleybus (also known as trolley bus, trolley coach, trackless trolley, trackless tram [in early years or trolley) is an electric bus that draws power from overhead wires (generally suspended from roadside posts) using spring-loaded trolley poles. Originally those poles had small wheels called trolleys on the end. So the name stuck. These days there are solid block contact shoes instead. Made out of some slippery (easy to slide along cable) conductor.

[@lucasbowering]

TIL that the electric buses I have been using my whole life are trolly buses @@jur4x

[@lucasbowering]

@@jur4x Ya my point was just that w have had electric buses for a long time now. Battery electric buses are more recent. Thanks for the correspondence ;-) Thx sp ckr

[@MrRedsjack]

What about the old electric trams? They didn't need a battery that is the main source of pollution in electric vehicles.

[@FamiliarGecko]

Also, trolleybuses! Why don't people mention trolleybuses more when talking about electric buses?

[@GoodwinPhotoBlog]

Great video and you made some great points!

[@micheals1992]

I can't believe that the average bus achieves just 38mpg per person. That can't be right 8mpg would be 32mpg for 4 people. I'd say the average bus carries around 10 people which would be more the region of 80mpg per person. It's still not great, considering my car gets 70mpg using petrol and I usually have my partner with me meaning I often get 140mpg per person with a max potential of 280mpg per person (the cars capacity is 4).

[@seraphina985]

Indeed if you were talking about very rural bus services that low occupancy might be more believable but if anything like here the busses that do run out to smaller neighbouring towns and villages are often minibuses not full sized ones. The ones in town average probably closer to 20 in the middle of the day and easily can run with the full 60 seated and 20 of so standing during peak hours, though the later evening services (9pm-12am) do tend to get fewer passengers often around 5 or less. But this is in what is only a large town (~170,000) big cities I suspect do even better most of the time. Seems to me that if you are running urban bus routes that are only getting 4 pax on board on average during daytime hours you need to fire your route planners and get better ones.

[@AfeezKayeRIDES]

Nicki can you cover Portable Electric Transportation such as e-scooters, Electric UniCycles and Electric Skateboards.. they are brilliant for reducing congestion and air pollution in our city centres.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

A lot of people hate these, despite the air pollution reduction. They tend to make city streets and sidewalks more chaotic.

[@AfeezKayeRIDES]

Mark Plott I think you misunderstood my comment..I never mentioned RIDESHARE. Just ownership of Portable Electric Transportation. I am not a big fan of the dockless scooters too.

[@AfeezKayeRIDES]

IncognitoTorpedo I meant private ownership.. never mentioned RIDESHARE.

[@AfeezKayeRIDES]

Mark Plott rental scooters should not be banned in inner cities. There should be better governance and they should be Docked Not dockless.. I believe you live in a busy City?

[@marcinwaach7639]

Makes more sence than replacing private own cars. Each priv car does far far less distance than public bus going round clock. So its way better to "give" li-ion batteries to public transport and keep ICE cars. Batteries will do way more miles in buses then would do in cars before will have to be replaced because of age.

[@MFizzle777]

Be more than happy to see them here in London.

[@Nick23Wood]

Be more than happy to see a bus here in Norfolk :)

[@christill]

I took a ride on local buses recently just for a change. The first one was a super old diesel single decker. Awful noise, vibration, rattling everywhere. The second one was a more modern hybrid double decker which was much nicer. But obviously not EV and probably won’t be upgraded for years. The bus company doesn’t get it. And because we’re a big town and not a city, we aren’t going to be at the top of the list for electric buses.

[@bobmarshall3700]

It shouldn't be a matter of either, or......All vehicles being built, or converted, should be electric. The priority should be to do ALL vehicles ASAP. No need for more chit chat about cars, versus buses, versus trucks, versus trains! JUST GET ON WITH ALL OF IT !

[@zelekuther7938]

I fully agree. It pains me to think that millions of ICE vehicles are still made every year. With a lifespan of approximately 20 years, these vehicles are entrenching us in oil, whereas we need to start right now with full EVs being the only option for new vehicle purchase.

[@Soothsayer210]

I thought Elect Flights and Electric Ferries are far, far more important than Electric Buses. A combination of Hydrogen/ Fuel cells can achieve this. Norway is already set to launch one of these ferries by 2020.

[@robertm3951]

Motorboats are terrible with fuel. Fuel cells probably make more sense with the weight of battteries

[@TaiViinikka]

In Toronto, Canada, on the Great Lakes basin, we have over 2000 city buses and 8 short-hop ferries, which run greatly reduced service during the winter. I don't think the fuel use is comparable at all.

[@Soothsayer210]

@@TaiViinikka that is interesting! when i was in Edmonton, i have seen a couple of Electric Buses but are you saying we have Hydrogen powered Ferries running in the Great Lakes? that will be a real good news for Canada. I always felt we are way behind in renewable infrastructures in Canada.

[@jolyonwelsh9834]

What is their operating DC voltage and what is the AC input voltage?

[@fredarendse4932]

if we would have put Ferdinand Diesel alone on an island and Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla in a boxing ring to discuss their ACDC solutions, we would probably have driven electrically for at least 100 years

[@celeduc]

I'd pay big money to watch that.

[@kdkd693]

Edison would have ganged up 2:1 against Tesla first lol

[@maltesephil]

trolley buses were around decades ago and didn't need batteries

[@prashanthb6521]

India is testing electric buses right now. 1000s of bus purchases are to come very soon. 2 Indian and 1 Chinese companies are in competition.

[@glenkellner9936]

Please tell me that the US is adopting these vehicles. I can't wait until all of the cargo ships switch to electric.

[@hornkraft9438]

No, AOC is in charge and she wants railways to cross the ocean! :-) The U.S. has always had electric trains and vehicles (subways) when it made sense (i.e., the Northeast Corridor) For long runs across the West, they used locomotives because of widely available coal and water. There were some shenanigans by General Motors in the 1950's to replace electric trolleys, but for the most part it was the actual economics that made the choices within the U.S. I think you will require nuclear power stations.

[@seraphina985]

@@hornkraft9438 If you mean for cargo ships yeah I suspect those are probably a job for a fission reactor, their motive power requirements are easily big enough and the vessels are so massive that the few tons of radiation shielding needed is pretty much negligible after all the big ones have a gross tonnage on the order of 200,000 tons+ when loaded. Certainly doable though 100,000 ton aircraft carriers manage on nuclear power cargo ships would just need a larger reactor probably quite a bit larger as they often have some pretty massive needs for on board electric power for things like powering hundreds or thousands of refrigerated containers.

[@Frank71]

Hoist a mast and unfurl the sail.

[@ahmad7825]

what you use to charge it? free electric or paid electric? how much time taken to get 100% fully charge?

[@kurtjensen7264]

I wish the US would learn to use electric trains like they do in Europe.

[@celeduc]

Distances are too large between cities in the US to make intercity rail travel economical (even for diesel - catenaries are extremely expensive to build and maintain). This is largely a question of geography. Land use policies and development priorities mean housing plots are too large and urban areas are too spread out for trains to pay off. There are lots of reasons this happened, but unfortunately racial segregation plays a huge role.

[@apagoogoo]

LION in quebec makes electric buses

[@afunguynamedkawhi7959]

Canada needs some serious players as OEMs, otherwise we will be a democratic Saudi Arabia. Not good for future generations.

[@dhincks1]

Yeah, lets get those buses also converted to motorhomes and get the big ice rv's clean. There's hope

[@wickedleeloopy2115]

Here in Australia , we have had electric busses in use since August this year of 2019.... The transformation has begun.

[@OnBelayClimbOn]

As an everyday bus rider on an inter-urban 90 mi. / day commuter, l long for an EV bus that would replace this diesel pusher I’m on right this minute!! As long as free wifi is included ❤️

[@solareyes2328]

"by 2040 EVs will displace 6 million barrels a day". I see it nearly complete by 2030-2035 as EVs' performance, O&M, comfort & societal demands push it to dominance in 4 - 5 years, with oil cars abandoned for cheap robo-taxis in 5-10 years.

[@annakeye]

Thanks Nikki for this thought provoking piece. I have always been a fan of public transport, at least in theory. The problems in practice include the distinct problem of being in an enclosed box with some that take the concept of being part of the _great unwashed_ literally. On a summers day, it is offensive as hell, add into that the issue of grizzly children, man-spreading and the odd sexist comment, and it can become a nightmare that is repeated every time one catches a bus during peak hours. How do we get across to people to show some consideration for others?

[@robertlee8805]

Does anybody know who the Electric Bus Companies are in your country and municipalities?

[@nickclarkuk]

ICE buses are run constantly during the day . This is different from personal cars . Plugins would need to stop to recharge. This time off the road costs the company money . Is it enough to offset the cost of fuel ?

[@jamesswaffordjr659]

What about a electric camper or mobile home

[@pixelfairy]

both diy, but heres a couple. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHi9Yq2YpqZ6d5I kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH7IooCjerengpI

[@CSHarvey]

How many busses are being operated globally vs personal autos? BE busses are a great way to reduce fleet emissions, but are limited based on usage.

[@TaiViinikka]

Total numbers may not matter as much as total fuel burned by the vehicles. My old ICE only drives ~11,000 km/year, burning I guess 880 litres of fuel. In an ideal world, I wouldn't buy an electric car and use up bunch of lithium batteries that should really be in a bus or a taxi. (But I probably will.)

[@CSHarvey]

@@TaiViinikka my point is to question what the total fuel offset of private vehicles (several hundred millions of them global) vs total fuel offset by public transit. I'm genuinely curious which has the larger share of global emissions, and thus which platform being electrified has the greater ability to reduce emissions.

[@servant74]

Are there some electric bus manufacturers in the US or EU? School busses? (I think school busses are mainly a US thing, but I am not totally sure about that)

[@raysonlogin]

how about Proterra?

[@adriancooper78]

@@raysonlogin Late to the party, Tesla can't do everything. Do your homework: Google Proterra buses US, and BYD Electric Busee China.

[@s1lenttoad422]

Unless you go to school in the city, we go to school on coaches. Our school buses seem a lot more advanced than American counterparts...-Because they’re also used for other uses. Not just school.

[@raysonlogin]

@@adriancooper78 I mentioned Proterra first, didn't I? Or did I miss anything?

[@adriancooper78]

@@raysonlogin YES you did.!!!! Had the privilege to meet tbose fellas back in 2009 when they came to New York demonstrating their bus to the MTA New York City Transit Department of Buses. I had just returned from the Division of Subways spending a year underground as a train operator. The guys from Proterra and I had a lot to talk about in their electric bus.

[@fuccasound3897]

i wondered if there were any agricultural tractors that are electric and if not why not?

[@fuccasound3897]

@@markplott4820 i checked them out, smaller machines seem viable but the large machines need batteries so large to create the equivalent horsepower they are not. seems hybrids will be the way to go for large machines. there is one with a cable that can produce a large power output, but that could not be driven on the road to get to it's place of work and farmers would have to install power points across their farms. (the cable is 1000m long). Battery tech will have to improve before electric tractors can replace the large diesel tractors, i found the progress a bit disappointing, i live in a farming area and the noise and pollution are a concern, especially as the tractors seem to burn 'red diesel' which is particularly smokey.

[@fuccasound3897]

@@markplott4820 i agree with you, there are plenty of biodigesters around the area i live, producing digestate fertiliser and methane, which could be used to produce power but the farmers i know will only invest in new tech if they can see it will make them money or they get a subsidy or are forced to by legislation. Are those contaminants in the soil? there are Radon gas sensors in some of the villages in this area of UK (lincolnshire)

[@FamiliarGecko]

I honestly don't know why trolleybuses aren't mentioned more when people talk about electric buses. They're electric buses that get their power from overhead wires instead of relying on on-board batteries. They've been a thing scince basically forever. Yes, they do need _some_ infrastructure, but they're a pretty simple, proven and reliable technology, and they mostly solve the two big drawbacks of battery electric buses. One being the batteries. (Battery electric buses rely on them, trolley buses usually only have a small, backup battery, so they can move a few hundres meters if something happens to the grid, or something's blocking their path. (And sometimes they don't even have batteries at all.)) Batteries being one of the big pollution sources on electric buses, I can see this as something to consider. The other is charging. With trolleybuses, you don't have to worry about it. The bus is directly powered through the grid at all times. Battery electric buses, due to relying on onboard batteries, need to be charged in some way. There are multiple solutions for this that I've seen. One being just going back to the bus depo, and charging them there, the other is charging them at bus stops with these retractable pantograph-like things... But these all have their downsides. I'm not an electrician, but to my knowledge charging up a battery, and then running a bus from that wastes much more energy than simly running the bus directly from the grid. And not to mention fast charging, which wastes even more... Though battery electric buses do absolutely have their usecases. School buses being one of them. Or in places where train tracks cross a bus line at the same level. You can't really put overhead wires there. Or in places where buses don't run frequently, and it's not economically viable to build up the infrastructure. But on fixed and frequently used, in-city buslines, I think trolleybuses would be a better choice. So why aren't more people talk about them? Whenever I see someone talk about electric buses, it's almost always exclusively about battery electric buses, and they don't even mention trolleybuses. Why? Because battery electric buses are the shiny new thing...? Both trolleybuses and battery electric buses have their advantages and disadvantages. So why is one system almost compleatly ignored when the topic comes up? I really don't know...

[@sarran1955]

Hello Nikki, I had never considered the term 'oil displacement', thank you for that.. It does not surprise me that too much(?) electricity is produced from coal, in the 80's and 90's China was bringing on a new coal fired station every 2 weeks. However, not only with solar and battery, as the electronics standardise, the price of fossil fuel burning becomes uneconomical, which will drive the move to sustainable energy Keep up the good work, Cordialement,

[@robertlee8805]

I saw a electric bus in Brooklyn, NY just last summer (2018).

[@nocensorship8092]

Do we even need batteries or couldn't they run along cables just like trains? Couldn't we run all vehicles along cables anyway?

[@FamiliarGecko]

You're talking about trolleybuses. Those are electric buses that get their power from overhead wires. They've been a thing scince basically forever. Yes, they do need _some_ infrastructure, but they're a pretty simple, proven and reliable technology, and they mostly solve the two big drawbacks of battery electric buses. One being the batteries. (Battery electric buses rely on them, trolley buses usually only have a small, backup battery, so they can move a few hundres meters if something happens to the grid, or something's blocking their path (And in some cases, they don't even have batteries at all)) Batteries being one of the big pollution sources on electric buses, I can see this as something to consider. The other is charging. With trolleybuses, you don't have to worry about it. The bus is directly powered through the grid at all times. Battery electric buses, due to relying on onboard batteries, need to be charged in some way. There are multiple solutions for this that I've seen. One being just going back to the bus depo, and charging them there, the other is charging them at bus stops with these retractable pantograph-like things... But these all have their downsides. I'm not an electrician, but to my knowledge charging up a battery, and then running a bus from that wastes much more energy than simly running the bus directly from the grid. And not to mention fast charging, which wastes even more... Though battery electric buses do absolutely have their usecases. School buses being one of them. Or in places where train tracks cross a bus line at the same level. You can't really put overhead wires there. Or in places where buses don't run frequently, and it's not economically viable to build up the infrastructure. But on fixed and frequently used, in-city buslines, I think trolleybuses would be a better choice. I honestly don't know why they're not mentioned more when people talk bout electric buses... Because battery electric buses are the shiny new thing...? I don't know...

[@MrGonzonator]

Once again, you're bang on. Keep on banging on!

[@carlosmalave540]

Tesla SHOULD produce electric public buses. It makes sense to do so since the semi is a truck too.

[@murc111]

Tesla is to busy, they are going through growing pains from the model 3, awhile wanting to begin selling the Semi, Roadster, Model Y, & Pickup.

[@twodogsify]

Tesla bus 0-60 in 3 seconds!

[@afunguynamedkawhi7959]

@@murc111 Exactly. Tesla already has an over-sized contribution to our general society, it's high time for all the governments to take up their responsibilities.

[@murc111]

@@afunguynamedkawhi7959 No. Making vehicles is not the role of our government. Electric buses are being made in the US, like Proterra.

[@BenjaminPersson]

Where I live in Sweden (I know many other cities do this to like Stockholm) pretty much the whole buss fleet use biogas. The waste of the city, like food scraps and sewage is used to make the gas and the biproduct is sent to farmers as fertilizer. I think this also is a great way to go fossil free and reduce emissions in the public transportation sector. This system was implemented when EVs weren't a thing so it was pretty much the only way of doing it then. I don't know if it's a better or worse system to implement for new cities that want to go fossil free or if electric is the way to go when factoring in cost, emissions, etc.

[@FamilyFirstJ]

Awesome content as usual, you lead the way

[@SolarControlFilms]

thanks for the info.

[@sgouletas1]

Awesome show Nikki!!!

[@guringai]

What's the cost comparison between diesel and electric buses over say a 5 year period.? They just bought about 900? ICE Volvo buses in Western Australia. ....which seems very short sighted.!

[@kdkd693]

A lot of taxis and Ubers in Melbourne are hybrid and the owners love them (apart from the dual maintenance costs on the Camrys). As the 35K Model 3s become available in Australia in the coming months, I can see these full EVs being adopted quickly in capital cities with charging infrastructure due to low running/maintenance costs, zero idling pollution and quiet ride experience. Same with cop cars, considering they’ve been looking at Kia Stingers and BMWs here, now the local Ford, GM and Toyota plants have all closed here. Supply is the current problem for alternate EVs. Model Y will be even better. (X and S too exxy)

[@brunohill3229]

AVASS have just scrapped 3 electric buses in Melbourne Australia because nobody wants them and they can't sell them. They are being dismantled and sold as parts. But I guess they have electric trams and trains.

[@kdkd693]

bruno hill interesting. Wonder what range they have. RV conversion? Hehe

[@brunohill3229]

@@kdkd693 Not much now because the 1.3 MWh batteries have be sold.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

I drive buses for a living here in Baltimore, MD. I love my old-fashioned diesels but even I agree that electric is our future. Hybrid buses may sound good via brochure but are not "FULLY electric" as advertised. After the first 4-5 years, they pollute more than newer base model diesels. Maintenance on hybrids are a hassle as well. A single battery costs equivalent to a new sedan (x2) and DoTs & TAs doesn't account for this as it's more of a P.R. stunt. But, again I agree electric does need to be more prominent in cities to balance out emissions or keep buses flowing in & out of downtown (not layover) to reduce emissions further.

[@lucidmoses]

I'm not sure you can make the case for electrifying buses is more important then cars as they have very little to do with each other and are in totally different markets. Are oranges more important then door bells?

[@lolouro2266]

Newsflash... buses and cars both transport ppl and things!! Did u go to trump college??

[@jamesheartney9546]

Carbon from buses is indistinguishable from carbon from cars. It's all the same atmosphere and all the same climate change.

[@lucidmoses]

@@lolouro2266 Next your going to tell me client change isn't real because it's cold in the winter. But if you could scrape two brain cells together, instead of proclaiming your ignorance and trying to drag people down to your level you maybe able to understand that people that buy cars and people that buy buses are totally different groups for different reasons. It is a very bad idea to setup a false dichotomy between the two. Especially when we need to do BOTH. Not Either. Why don't you think before you spout off.

[@lucidmoses]

@@jamesheartney9546 True but give me one good reason we should pick between them.

[@bs4638]

@Lucid Moses, I would say electrifying buses in URBAN areas is more important, to reduce air and noise pollution. In addition, making these forms of public transportation free would encourage people to use them instead of their personal vehicles.

[@SimSpencerX]

i genuinely love this channel

[@earthkeepr7591]

Love this channel

[@bobr.6312]

Love it, I saw a video about electric buses on the streets of Scandinavia and they had ears that went up when the bus stopped for a few minutes to recharge...Here in the USA, Detroit has put in street cars that run 60% of the time on batteries and then can switch to an overhead wire ...to recharge, or simply operate...YES, this is great...Sorry so many municipalities gave up electric street cars.

[@luisviola1496]

Great job. This is a brilliant piece of written news. Well done girl.

[@ravinagaraj7003]

Great analysis. Of course, the advent of autonomous cars will blur the picture between buses (or public transit) and cars since the need to own a car or to wait for a bus should be completely eliminated. What is a driverless Uber but a personalized bus that takes you exactly where you want to go?

[@robertm3951]

Less cars, but more traffic

[@ravinagaraj7003]

@Robert M Not necessarily. There are two issues with car usage - peak road bandwidth and storage at destination. Peak road bandwidth will be helped when mass transit vehicles, which are large, and are forced to operate at low loads at non peak hours are no longer necessary, freeing up road resources. Storage at destination is avoided completely when the vehicle departs to pick up another customer. By spreading out hours of employment and working from remote locations, the peak road bandwidth limitation can be completely avoided.

[@adamlytle2615]

Thank you for this. As much as I enjoy this channel and others that cover the world of EVs, I think more attention needs to be paid to these less sexy developments. Buses, delivery vehicles, etc will I think provide a much more rapid shift to electrification than private vehicles.

[@ferkeap]

Are you purposefully ignoring the clean energy increase in China is coming from nuclear mostly. You only mention renewables with that picture of solar. Ps: renewables is a weird definition BTW.

[@youngz13o]

ferkeap whats your point?

[@BudahOfBirmingham]

Love the idea of a Tesla bus. Budah of Birmingham

[@richard77231]

I could why this is the case. An individual car tend to remain unused throughout the day whereas a bus is constantly in use. Plus, of course, a bus is bigger and therefore consumes more fossil fuel per mile. Plus, range anxiety issues don't apply as much since the routes and distances being travelled are well defined.

[@blank.9301]

Great channel, 👍

[@propergander8509]

Electric buses are absolutely great! They are used on several lines in my city and charge at their end-points within minutes at large parking areas covered by solar. The buses have USB-outlets for every seat and are very quiet, which really helps my nerves in the morning!