Why Europe will struggle at Worlds / LEC's downfall - The Best Damn League Show. S4E27 ft IWDominate

[@marcosa2000]

The biggest evidence of the LEC's decline is that there hasn't been a Drakos and Vedius music video in ages. Where are my rap cyphers?

[@CrystaliaDon]

Was it ever said who wrote the cyphers? Wouldn't be surprised if the Riot layoffs included some of the writers/producers who worked on those cyphers originally

[@pizok5637]

​@CrystaliaDon it was said that they were written moatly by drakos with help of some producer. Later vedius wrócroteę some of his bars himself

[@CrystaliaDon]

@@pizok5637 okay, fair enough. Then I'm actually not sure why they didn't make the cyphers anymore, ig the teams actually weren't good enough xd

[@Maronicam]

​@@CrystaliaDon Lack of budget. Apparently LEC's budget is so cut down, that doing a simplified broadcast and yt videos being game clips and some interview trailers is all they can do.

[@cremlindor6607]

@@CrystaliaDon Legit no budget

[@tinecchi3648]

GOATED DUO.

[@nonamed56]

Who goated this duo?

[@tinecchi3648]

@@nonamed56 who are you ?

[@XXSTEAKYXX]

GOATED DUO

[@VexOoo-x7y]

If you're mentally ill yes

[@tinecchi3648]

@@VexOoo-x7y if you prefer the broxah podcast with no hot takes no honest opinions then go ahead. Why are you even in the comments then. Is your life that miserable that you have to watch content of people that you don’t like? Horrible bro I feel bad for you :/ voice your opinion on Reddit where the dumbest people Collab and voice there dogshit opinion

[@e.e.9592]

it seems that G2 has that buff that top eastern teams have against western teams where western teams are so scared of losing against them that they forget that they want to win

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

What buff? They have been on a huge decline after MSI. Since LEC is so bad they can't defeat G2 despite losing the early game every single time it just gives hopium.

[@eemilkolu5598]

@@Gurpreet-sv5zg I think he meant that other LEC teams throw their lead against G2 because of that effect. The statement doesn't give credit to G2 at all.

[@ula17404]

Idk about that. G2 is the only team in Europe with decent macro and I mean decent, not even good. All other eu teams have literally zero macro and G2 is able to win by out rotating their opponents.

[@boyonthephone4331]

By far still the best pairing

[@NoradNoxtus]

one of the goat pairings in league

[@treynguyen1236]

NOT-NOT-DOM IS BACK

[@Rokumasu853]

“Nothing someone says before the word ‘but’ really counts.” - Benjen Stark

[@leorikh]

Not-Dom Dom is back!

[@mysticaldevotion863]

You mean not-dom is gone?

[@maldlions5313]

Realest shit ever.

[@dadakma]

Holy Dom!! This duo has the best dynamic in league!

[@XXSTEAKYXX]

Agreed! I wasn’t expecting them to be so good together but I def want more of them!

[@SolaceV9]

at this point, fnc need like a 30k gold lead to securely win against g2. I think if fnc are allowed to play the game for 15 minutes while the whole enemy team is dc'ed until then, they could have an even record against g2. I fucking hate this region so much man

[@r1ven0gelol40]

the latest finals they honestly only really choked game 1 and were just outclassed the other games they lost.

[@koks49045]

this is stupid argument, not long ago t1 always seemed to win teamfights no matter how behind they were vs lck teams, that does not mean they were bad. Im rly looking for eu vs na reality check at worlds.

[@Ellefsen97]

The hardest part about predictions and FNC is that they only need to fix some easily observable problems, and you’d expect that they would be able to solve them. There’s a reality where FNC improves some of their flaws and makes a semifinal run. But somehow, no matter what, they always fail to stitch up the holes in their game

[@9111able]

Semi final ? Can you pass me what you're smoking

[@zaxls3611]

@@9111able its not impossible tbh, lpl 3rd/4th seed looking really weak this year, LCK aint much better either, DK is like the fnatic of lck, I could imagine them beating them if they get a lucky draw or smthng.

[@gary4936]

Ngl, it's hard to see FNC ever beating any asian team in a Bo5, because I think it's too late into the season (and this roster) to see noticeable macro improvement to carry their early leads. They just get lost in mid-game and lose sight of what they need to do to progress the game. Weibo will be hard, the team has Tarzan to pilot their early game and solid late game macro, and their players are generally just better than FNC. Same with LNG. I think DK is the weakest asian seed this year, so maybe they can upset them. Honestly, I just have no hope for any western team that isn't TL, G2, and maybe maybe FLY when Bwipo and Busio don't sprint the early the game.

[@Miata-gp5bp]

​TL and G2 might stand a chance against 3/4th seed. The way fnc plays is so bad there's no chance they win against China or Korea.

[@theycallmebrownie1]

finally the dom patch is here

[@drawing200100]

Far fetched take that caps never had bad teams, He won lec with targamas flakked bot lane. Its more other way around. None of the players in g2 roster won without caps. And probably if you take out caps from this g2 and put any other mid they won't be wining

[@Slashresto]

100% agree!

[@BaronSamedii]

It depends, if you take out Caps and hes not playing in any team in EU, G2 could still win if they get players like Nemesis. G2 coaching staff is actually miles ahead of any other staff in the LEC. If Caps joined any other team in the LEC, G2 could still win if Caps has bad teammates. No matter how good Caps is, League is a team game.

[@randomname39cf]

I think if u remove caps from g2 and put any other mid there's good chance FNC gets 1st place

[@r1ven0gelol40]

the disrespect to g2 players is wild. caps is a damn good player but other g2 players are all the west's top players in their positions. you do not win games with one player. and its not like only one player on g2 knows macro which has been one of their biggest strenghts.

[@cherubs4960]

Technically bb has a LCS title

[@AimbotKyle]

“Dom Classic” being on at the end of the szn is why Thooorin will always be the GOAT

[@georgeide2337]

The dynamic duo back at it again!

[@WickedSL]

what a positive episode :)

[@alexursu563]

1:10:01 It makes sense that people are down on FNC and their macro rotations, but I think part of it for FNC it's that it was against G2 specifically. I can still see them doing a good worlds run, they are good players, they have issues, but they are good players. And the lane-swapping thing, since it's part of the early game, they'll be okay.

[@Max88188]

I wait all season for this episode

[@Destromath2]

THE DUO IS BACK

[@pegasusdragoondxt]

What fnc coach needs to tell their players is once 20 mins hits the timer, 1 guy has to just say "hey guys, its 20, time to play soloq"

[@gebby09]

the g2 line up that Caps had to play with in 2022 was worse than the C9 Perkz joined and had better results throughout the year while facing the Perkz Vitality super-team and the Fnatic super-team but we are just going to ignore that and act like Caps didn't carry a bad team ever

[@r1ven0gelol40]

one good player can't make a team of 5 win. holy shit stop saying retarded shit. g2 players are better than fnc in all roles but jngl (at least currently)

[@pavelr.8042]

so true even Caps played meh when Rekkless joined, that was such a terrible team

[@MacA60230]

I know Thorin memes the audience for complaining about this, but that doesn't make it any less true: why the fuck can't he let his guests finish their point, ever? Is it genuinely hard to just wait for them to finish their sentence before butting in? It's so annoying having to try to decipher what the guest is saying through thorin's constant "talking louder over you before you're even done".

[@DuckDuckGoose13]

Because it gets views and comments. Check out his earlier stuff - his voice and behavior have become more childlike and spastic for the same reason. What helps is that his lack of enunciation while talking as fast as humanly possible makes it impossible for me to understand a single word he says. So I can just tune him out. It's incredibly annoying, though, how much he loves his own voice to a point where everyone else on every podcast he's on feels like they're not allowed to speak.

[@cadenglick7783]

I don't watch any videos with thorin in it. I want to watch this one for IWD, but this guy click baits so hard and likes trying to start shit, and as y'all said, just talks so much. Quantity over quality.

[@XXSTEAKYXX]

Did you watch it? He let Dom talk lmao and even when thorrin did talk it was just to add context to things DOM would say. I’m all for hating people who interrupt but thorrin is a good host tbh

[@DuckDuckGoose13]

​@XXSTEAKYXX I pulled up a random time stamp to see if I could find an example, and I find one immediately. 34:22 the asshole for mouth hole is in physical pain if he doesn't interrupt Dom lmao after 8 seconds he nearly has an aneurysm and forces Dom out lol

[@EzM-f5y]

And by the way😂😂😂

[@mitchr1619]

I want to see Thorin and Dom together in a show about Global LoL akin to Summoning Insight; not necessarily with just them but I like when Dom talks league with Monte and/or Thorin

[@kevinhund9506]

With Dom probably quitting LEC entirely, there really needs to be another show with these 2. Best chemistry in esports

[@allbies]

On the Caps point it's true, if you're the best player in the region the chances of you being on a bad team are basically 0. However I wouldn't call flakked and targamas amazing players. What they've done since leaving g2 hasn't been anything worth noting. More than just Caps it seems like G2 are a very well ran team in general so it's not just about buying the best players it's knowing how to manage them inside and outside of the game.

[@joaomiguel178]

The best jungle supp duo out of the rift

[@KidDaAce]

The FNC segment is what I came for and it did not disappoint.

[@Leogos281]

lmao Thorin was insane on this one, The "don't say the quite part out loud' and workman and the tools killed me hahahhah. Spot on.

[@Bscybfan1996]

i just want razork on G2 🙏🙏🙏

[@Mikurusenpai]

hey its not not dom

[@kivori3438]

Im living under a rock, since when thorin talks about league?

[@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719]

Hearing the scrims situation, I wonder if this would be a good practice system for a pro team: Scrim block of 3 games. First game, play hyper-aggressive, try to punish every mistake, try to create every enemy misplay, be a complete animal. This would teahc you and show you possibilities of things to do so that you know, macro-wise how aggressive you can be, while also getting the int out in game 1. Second game, play really chill and controlled, try to only win the game through mid-to-late game decision making. This would require the players on the team to be disciplined and also would team them about shot-calling and mid-to-late game amcro. Third game, try-hard to be as good as possible with what you've learnt from games 1 and 2. Let's say you find a mechanic that allows tower dives to be done more easily. Try to use taht in game 3. Let's say you have found out that you can do a certain rotation around dragon that you think will make you take vision faster while also keeping your team safe, do that. Try-hard what you learnt in this scrim block. I feel like this would be a really good basic system for any team to improve better than just scrimming for the stake of scrimming.

[@MangoMeoww]

I am Meow and no one is going to stop me!

[@prainiak5710]

I am actually more hyped for MAD than for FNC just because of Myrwn, is that normal?

[@diegestrandetekokosnuss5865]

This years final was the frist finale i did not watch since 2015.

[@IanRamsay-n5g]

Would like to ask the hosts, especially Dom: if you could take g2 and swap yike for razork, where do they finish in worlds?

[@blobfish4693]

Tbh the gwen pick might've been for comfort but I also feel like (if it worked) it would've been a great weapon for worlds.

[@icefever13]

Always wondered if the league teams figured out a way to develop 3rd party tools or tried to work with riot to come up with drill practicing via practice tools, but does not seem like it lol

[@ArSXBrO]

That underwear plug killed me laughing

[@MrNaevus19]

Didn't G2 say that they don't play Scrims like you're describind Thorin? They specifically stated that they play out every scrim game, even when they get shit on early, because it's much better practice. I don't know about FNC and other teams because they are much more secretive about it

[@Slashresto]

I feel that MDK will be more interesting then BDS at worlds anyway and if we gonna have a 2nd/3rd seed from EU then we better have them be interesting to watch at least. I can see MDK pull complete random shit in play-in cause it will throw worse teams off and it will be super fun to watch these crazy picks.

[@slimryda866]

I do like this duo!

[@idiosyncraticRyugu]

lack of budget, on air talent online presence that stagnated or simply became abrasive, teams and format that leaves a lot to be desired or is plain confusing. I mean, it's basically a surprise at what day LEC would actually air, is it friday, or saturday, or sometimes even sunday into monday. Like wtf, i'f you want something consistent BE CONSISTENT.

[@thelight3270]

Why did Thorin talk about Zeka like he was the worst of all those LCK/LPL midlaners? Is he being delusional again?

[@Zhunne]

how can you play zeri/smolder when your jungler is yike

[@SocomhunterX-o4x]

I never understood why they did a patch in between choosing who gets to worlds & worlds itself. Like the meta this patch is quite a bit different than the patch before but the teams made it here due to how they played on the last patch.. It's why some teams fail big time because sometimes the worlds patch doesn't fit their playstyle & it hurts the region because the next best team may have been insane at the worlds patch but has no chance to prove it. IMO they should remove the last patch just before worlds and just stick to the patch where all the teams qualify.

[@Zevrael]

IT IS TIME!

[@mortimir7263]

THEY’RE BAAAAACK *horribly overexposed music comes in*

[@michaelgray4552]

I didn’t even see the hype trailer

[@Azrael_Xx_]

I like how people in fnatic subreddit are comparing this fnc roster to GenG. Keep all the players please, they will surely win next time right?

[@VexOoo-x7y]

Lol nice glazing of TL who just lost to minions xD

[@tank-is2yl]

BDS pains me so much

[@XXSTEAKYXX]

Great show today guys! Loved the insight with fnatic and their culture It seems rn LEC really does think G2 are still so good where the games are how do we avoid losing and not how do we win.

[@Snootz86]

There is only 2.. maybe 3 REALLY good teams in GENG/BLG and maybe HLE.. This is not last year when you had 4 world class teams in BLG/JDG/GENG/T1 who were miles ahead.. and then some decent looking teams outside of that KT/G2/LNG/wbg etc Realistically if the G2 that showed up like they did for the first 3 b05 series at MSI (i think they weren't terrible in the 4th.. T1 just improved).. I would favor them to beat anyone not named GENG/BLG.. problem is outside of MSI they have been very erratic.. so while i would favor them over the likes of DK, TL, WBG, etc.. i wouldn't be shocked if they lose I think people forget due to the absolutely pathetic display vs NRG last year.. that they did beat WBG/Damwon.. took a game off BLG etc.. and imo they improved since 2023.. for a Western team they are far more proven then anyone else Losing 2-3 to T1.. beating PSG 3-0.. beating TES 3-0.. is sadly probably one of the best runs a Western team has ever done.. 2019 worlds G2 was better.. but imo it surpasses 2020.. when they smashed GENG 3-0 before losing 1-3 to DKia

[@Miata-gp5bp]

I don't think it's possible but I'd be so thrilled if any western teams managed to beat lpl lck teams. Always rooting for the underdogs

[@ds703]

KCORP NEED TO BE RAN OUT OF THE LEC

[@ELGUAPOIV]

1 team region

[@antosqa7343]

It is definitely not Nightshare's problem that his players are incapable of macro whatsoever. If errors about which Dom was talking are that simple they should be easily fixable by multiple coaches at this point? The core of this roster is 2+ years long and the same problems are keep plummeting FNC's level over and over again. At this point it is ONLY player problem, Humanoid Razork in particular. They are just at their core bloodhounds who are turning blind to surrounding the second they see a lonely side laner they just can't deny their desire to collapse on him. They need an intelligent player that can make calls in mid-late game and EVERYONE shut up and listen to his calls. The Captain, so to say. And it should not be Razork and Humanoid. They haven't changed in years of their careers why would they change now?

[@unLUCKY95]

I'll always be confused as to why Fnatic got rid of Trymbi. Don't get me wrong, Jun is a great player, but let's be honest the real turning point Fnatic had in 2023 was when Trymbi joined in summer - he brought a level of energy that just didn't exist prior to him joining, and it felt weird to me that they replaced him after he was one of the major factors that took the team from being the absolute worst the org has ever been to finishing 2nd in 2023. Literally the only thing fans asked when 2023 ended was "please keep this roster and give it the resources it needs to grow into a team that could genuinely compete with G2" - and for some reason they felt like they needed to make that change. I've been a Fnatic fan since 2013 and it's just getting more and more difficult to hear the excuses year after year. We used to look forward to our international performance, but at this point we don't even care about that, we just want a fucking domestic title. It's been 6 YEARS!

[@stokern]

Low key it feels like Thorin has ADHD, as he picks up a sentence, and mid sentence goes on a massive tangent

[@d1vinejudgement]

Thoorin goated sellsman ,so underrated

[@brandonverzijl6234]

all this cap to just see europe smack Na around xdd

[@mentalcow]

It is fascinating to see that ever since the LEC has been awful this year they have fallen back into all the old excuses that the LCS used to use year after year.

[@HeLLraiSa911]

👍

[@pray4boris]

Wait so Thorin commonly watches men pee to see if they’ve used the flappy/bat wings? 😂

[@0re0n]

Why every single time during BDS/Nuc discussion, people always argue that there is no better replacement? WHAT? Is it because we are talking about EU with an extremely outdated decade old narrative of "EU mids man", or is it because of Humanoid/Caps, we are forgetting how fucking weak the current midlane pool is? You can EASILY replace him with and import who is going to be massively mechanically superior, the same way FLY replaced Jensen with Quad. If anything, the level of talent of top tier LCK CL midlaners (Zinie, Saint, Pungyeon) is even higher. AND it's fucking easy to get them, because there is close to 0% chance of them replacing BDD, Showmaker and Bulldog.

[@pmoney3001]

If I had to guess another quarters dropout for g2 but I think that’s the best u can hope for the west nowadays

[@Miata-gp5bp]

I can't relate cuz my location doesn't have a region 😂 I just soak in the drama from different regions it's so entertaining. But the best thing about LCS and lec is that they aren't racist or xenophobic like a lot of lck and lpl fans.

[@Kogg94]

I don’t follow league e sports anymore but this showed up because I’m subscribed for a few years now, but this is funny, it’s like European football commentators on tv, they are always failed pro players, just like iwdominate, never won shit, turned commentator or some shit 😂

[@boredindividual]

Sounds like you never followed league then if you got that take

[@RekashalGames]

I don't understand how anyone that went pro is a failed pro player lmao. They went pro didn't they? Also you clearly don't know what your talking about. Dom was easily one of the better NA jgs of his time and Thorrin was never a player lmao

[@AHamp123]

I know right imagine making money by playing a video game and then continuing to make money by simply talking about that game. Sounds like such a failure!

[@znojnyj]

Lol

[@janikhybhober5240]

Lec going downhill ever since sjokz got a bf and stopped sleeping with players

[@aprameyaneopane7766]

whaaaaat

[@podefunder]

Lmao, this video already has more views than the LEC finals trailer. A fifth of the subscribers (often subscribed for non-League content), on a 1.5 hour video. And more views in less than 12 hours. LEC is a joke

[@Rusty_Justice]

Yikes has to be one of the luckiest LOL pros in history. Has been a passenger princess in LEC from day 1.

[@Littledunc1]

G2 should get inspired, elyoya or razork, both broken blade and hans failed on their teams previous b4 G2 so idk how they ever got on that team tbf, but G2 living off that Caps/Jankos/Perkz/Wunder past.

[@j4vii_c]

mikyx wanted hans, hans 2021 was the best western adc, brokenblade was the best toplaner in the west in 2021 with schalke…. and is the best western top now too. I agree G2 should get razork and maybe carzzy even tho hans is performing like the best adc in the lec right now

[@RekashalGames]

Eh impact is the best top laner in the west imo. That man is a god. At this point I consider him a western player before you say he's Korea. He's played the vast majority of his career here. Brokenblade is an easy second I think though. Other than when he decides to go way to ham lmao but those moments are some of the best BB moments. The best thing I can say about BB is he has that clutch factor when he needs it. ​@j4vii_c

[@jackphillips6742]

G2 should get Contractz and Impact.

[@j4vii_c]

@@RekashalGames fair but i dont think you cant change you shotcaller like that

[@RekashalGames]

@@j4vii_c Oh i agree. I was just commenting on the fact sometimes BB turns his brain off and just goes for it lmao

[@giwrgosanes9156]

The Yike hate is just fake, he is playing well.

[@Zevrael]

It's not hate. It's criticism based on facts and the perceptions of veteran eyes.

[@cowboyent1309]

@@Zevrael 'Veterans' 😂😂

[@Zevrael]

@@cowboyent1309 Both Dom and Thorin were involved in the LoL esports scene from the very beginning. I don't see how they are not veterans of interacting with the game at the professional level.

[@cowboyent1309]

@@Zevrael They are clowns, especially Thorin lmao

[@misterragger2389]

@@Zevrael thorin has never been a lol analyst since his knowledge of the game is absolutely terrible

[@StillKeepOnLosing]

The pleb IWD hyped up LPL for years till T1 crushed his dreams... Now pleb is on LCK Gen G chokes. Lmfao. Bet LPL now

[@samwisehuluberlu2210]

No he was also on DRX hype when they broke T1. You haven't see the video yet? 🤫

[@StillKeepOnLosing]

@@samwisehuluberlu2210 Dom is on anyone going against T1... You plebs lmfao

[@StillKeepOnLosing]

@@samwisehuluberlu2210 And no, he said it'd be cool if DRX won cuz of zeka. He never hopped on the wagon. Get your facts straight you plebs.

[@j4vii_c]

@@StillKeepOnLosing”plebs” said the nerd

[@StillKeepOnLosing]

@@j4vii_c ? Is that suppose to hurt? Lmfao. You IWD stans are funny. Plebs

[@Constantinch]

LEC was horrible this year, I think only S6 can compete with it for being the worst. I have legitimately zero hope for any of the teams and minimal hope for G2 to take few games of some eastern teams. Also MAD is not getting to the main stage.

[@koreanata6951]

I just came to tell you why I stopped watching you, Thorin. It's because of 2 factors. 1st - your videos are too long and I get tired of waiting for what I started watching it and listening to much too long commentaries on a single target. 2nd - Thoring , you speak too fast with a too strong dialect. 50% of what you say I can't understand. I'm not a native English speaker but I understand Dom and all the LEC casters, however not you. Sorry to make you feel bad but I think if you are smart and I think you are, you will take it as an oportunity to improve. Good liuck!

[@TheIronMan728]

videos too long is cap

[@feature8]

One biggest issues with G2 is that they absolutely suck at team fighting and too reliant on the other team making mistakes.

[@mhakeyhaughton]

Is that every NA team ever minus Team Liquid

[@turnermarius4471]

Isnt that DK. Most LPL teams.

[@feature8]

​@@mhakeyhaughtonIt's how G2 failed to get out of groups last year due to NRG constantly attacking, without messing up.

[@niels64545]

tell me you havent watched MSI without telling me that you havent watched MSI

[@feature8]

@@niels64545 the hard inting TES or the 3-0 beat down by SKT

[@K1m9857]

G2 needs to blow up and restructure Hans sama is just a draven/kalista player, upset is just a better Hans sama Brokenblade is just a worse irrelevant imo Yike is still limited in his gameplay Compared to the g2 back in the day, this current g2 is a joke

[@cowboyent1309]

Yeah, you are Iron.

[@K1m9857]

@@cowboyent1309 ? Good discussion

[@themattez6024]

bro what?? Upset and Irrelevant are better than Hans and BB? what are u smoking

[@K1m9857]

@themattez6024 yes Think about it Without Draven and kalista, Hans sama is nonexistent in games, or just not a factor in winning games Brokenblade isn't as flexible as wunder was Wtf was the irelia pick in that last game in upper bracket vs mad lions

[@cowboyent1309]

@@K1m9857 Tell me you didn't watch the games without telling me you didn't watch the games.

[@xTriplexS]

Around 47:30 Humanoid does tell his teammates what to do during mid to late, but the baboons don't listen to the guy. I've seen this happen multiple times in their voice comms videos

[@ds703]

KCORP NEED TO BE RAN OUT OF THE LEC