Why Evangelism Cannot Be Our Focus - Alan Hirsch

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Get started now: vergenetwork.o... Evangleism vs Discipleship - Alan Hirsch

[@matthewscott9376]

To make a comment on this small clip is tough, I think hearing the whole sermon. Ive read a lot of Alan Hirsch' books and listen to many of his teachings, he makes sence, plus he has had hands on experence. I like this, this is fresh. I think we need to have discernment and ask the Lord for wisdom and insight into what God is doing through these people. The Lord is moving in a different way, so we need to take on board what he is doing and saying to His people. lets make this a bad year 4 satan

[@tgoyer]

"Discipleship" is not a Christian term. It's not even a religious term. It means simply mentoring and teaching people in your life.

[@Arkeytet]

Makes sense to me. Let's do what Jesus did. Love people through difficult circumstances, and let the Holy Spirit do the stuff inside their hearts.

[@paulvprior]

I appreciate the point from Alan Hirsch, but before we go further we should look at how we have taught religiously over the years, and consider what it means to follow Jesus Christ. Why do we judge others and their position with God? When Jesus called then and calls today to follow Him, it is something that He does intimately with the person, who are we to judge where someone stands with God, therefore we should love everyone and encourage them on the GREAT news of salvation.

[@daveytube]

Hi David, I think he is on track. The Great Commission tells us to go and Disciple, instruct, teach, guide... etc. It's evangelism that occurs in the context of Instruction, not as a seperate "event". So, we could say that was what Phillip was doing with the Ethiopian. Same for Peter and Cornelius - Peter was Discipling the "Nations", which starts where they are at and points them to Christ - it's a Discipleship that continues through all of life. I like it!

[@SabbathDay]

BRILLIANT!!!

[@tgoyer]

The first sentence was "We musn't stop sharing the good news." He's not saying to stop sharing your life and testimony. It just shouldn't be your focus. Building trust and relationships is a much more powerful way to "evangelize".

[@robertkgilbert]

from his point of view, it does relieve some focus and stress on who is saved and who is not saved. you focus on living for Christ. learnng to actual follow christ when the discipler/teacher is not there. I think about something like paddle a canoe. you teach them how to paddle. how to get the canoe in the water. how to steer the boat. safety precautions. etc etc etc . . . one day trainer/teacher is late for practice and is pleasantly surprised wth the boat in water and team warmed up.

[@alva35100]

Walk the walk, talk the talk, live the life. JESUS DID AND HE WANTS US TO DO LIKEWISE.

[@unveiledglorygospel2146]

(1) What is a disciple? A student (2) What is discipleship? Teaching The Great Commission commands us to "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations" yet the church has reduced that command to "Go and get people to pray a prayer". In John 6 the Bible says many of Jesus' disciples turned back and followed Him no more. So here we see disciples (students) of Christ who changed their minds and the teacher they would follow when what He was teaching became to too hard for them to accept and live. I believe the reason we see so many people turning away from Christianity is because we shared 3-5 Bible verses with them and asked them to make a life-changing, eternity altering decision about something they don't really understand. I joined the USN in 1988. I never saw the UCMJ until AFTER I had enlisted. Had I seen, read, and understood the UCMJ BEFORE I enlisted I may have never signed the dotted line. But thats all theory and speculation at this point. But with the USN I couldn't just turn and walk away if I decided to, I had signed the dotted line and was required to fulfill my duties. I believe the original Engle Scale gives a good visual picture of disciple training. Please see www.xaatuva.com/resources/discipleship/The%20Engel%20Scale.pdf for reference. Anytime we are teaching we are discipling. Someone needs to know and understand the Good News before they can truly commit their lives and eternity to it. Many people are in financial bankruptcy today because they really didn't understand the covenant they were making with the lending institution. I believe many people are still spiritually bankrupt today because they didn't truly understand the covenant they were asked to enter into with God. 3-5 verses, prayed a prayer, baptized in water, and then living an unconverted lifestyle and they are ignorantly confident, based on what someone told them, that they will go to heaven when they die. In Matthew 7:21 Jesus told His then disciples that not everyone who said "Lord, Lord" would enter the Kingdom of Heaven BUT only those who did the will of the Father. John 17:3 tells us that eternal life is KNOWING God the one true God and Jesus Christ Whom He sent to this earth. In Matthew 7:23 Jesus said on the day of judgment He will say too many, "Depart from Me, I never knew you." These were people who had performed many good (great) works but they were not entering into heaven. I believe for a true decision for Christ to be made, one must understand Who God is, who they are, Who Jesus was/is and their absolute need for His atoning death for their sin debt, and God's demand on their life of repentant surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the life of following Him He calls them to live everyday. But thats a LOT to understand in a few minutes from just a couple of verses. Jesus spent three years with the 12 and one of them still didn't believe. Let us teach the full counsel of God to all we encounter, be they wheat or tares, goats or sheep, lost or saved, and leave the separating process to God.

[@gadget00]

I think that he is focusing more on evangelism that results in community forming like the book of Acts, instead of tent-revival-style or massive-media evangelism that when it's over, everybody goes home and there's no follow up(discipleship). Enforcing discipling people that haven't formally converted to christianity, "like Jesus did" I think it's revolutionary by itself. Rom10:14 is correct in that sense, because you can't disciple if you haven't preached the gospel first.

[@robertkgilbert]

good point, bynum, but I was an agnostic sitting in koine (NT) greek.

[@SabbathDay]

LUKE 22:31-32 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

[@williamhbynumiii5269]

It sounded a bit backwards. Discipling before conversion / regeneration. Why would you disciple one who is not a follower called into Christ? I cannot be a student of a university without enrolling, nor would a teacher of said university agree to teach me without me enrolling in his class.

[@damienhine1861]

Well ok, good theological point, but what does that actually look like in practise?

[@williamhbynumiii5269]

Yeah tgoyer, I know what it means, but while disciple the word isn't Christian centric, the meaning of disciple of Christ is absolutely specific. It cannot nor ever was meant to be a general term. While it may not be Christian based idea at its core, it is more religious than we like to think, or admit.

[@williamhbynumiii5269]

Yeah I get

[@Swimminginacoat]

He's right about making disciples, but I also think that he is perhaps being a little too simplistic. Preaching and 'regular' evangelising is still important. If only the disciples hear the good news, there wouldn't be many Christians around. Evangelism must take place in discipleship and in other forms too (preaching, tracts, apologetics). To think otherwise is unrealistic and unbiblical (see Romans 10:14).

[@tonnygatambia1]

A little bit of mixing up feeling in me. We cannot say the disciples were not born again for they had accepted to follow the head of the church or her bride which is what we call being born again. All I see is you are giving Evangelism a new name by calling it preconversion discipleship. Similarly we cannot pause as Christ but we can only point people to him meaning we are only making disciples for him and not our disciples and failing to let people know who we follow from the start is risky.

[@DavidWoodMusic]

I feel like this is either completely legitimate or completely off. Can people offer comments?

[@jamesstone201]

I think you should really consider what Tony Miano says about Friendship Evangelism before you make up your mind. Here is the KZbin link - watch?v=LBwWHDrMI_c

[@scottking3]

you CANNOT teach a baby to walk before its born. Likewise you CANNOT disciple a person to follow Christ unless they've been born again. Jesus with the woman at the well didn't disciple her - he evangelized her -He showed her she had violated the law (adultery 7th commandment) then revealed Himself to her as the Messiah. Evangelism MUST precede discipleship. Its impossible to disciple a goat into a sheep.