Why Genshin Impact's Banner/Gacha System Is Ruining The Game

[@Zephyrion22]

What I would love is an anniversary banner (especially since Genshin's anniversary rewards are...well) that works like a limited banner for the anniversary patch, but lets you select the character you want amongst the older chars (say chars that are 2 years or older) once. That way they can keep milking fomo while still giving a sense of security for more patient players as they know they won't have to wait more than that for a char they really want

[@zyra4732]

An anniversary banner but only with older characters sounds actually great! Even if it's only once a year, it could give them an excuse not to rerun the older characters (or not to do it as often) and the playerbase wouldn't be too mad at it because they know that at least once a year they can try and pull for them

[@YayaFeiLong]

That's actually such a great idea

[@Estheriam]

Arknights has something akin to this. A banner that has every character up to a certain 'Age' (how long ago they were put into the game). It then checks what characters you don't have and puts them in the pool from that, or rather it just excludes the ones you do have, and then your first 6 star (Takes up to 60 pulls, 70 if you're really unlucky) is guaranteed to be New. It also has a 'Pick' ticket you can buy that lets you pick any 6 star with a lighter restriction on how old the character is. So every Anniversary you can pick yourself up 2 new 6 stars. FGO has a GSSR every Anniversary and New Year where for $10~13 or something, you can roll on a banner of SSRs and you're guaranteed one of them. This anniversary gives everyone an SSR ticket that lets them pick 1 of 25 Servants. This is permanent, so any new player can get a free SSR. There's also a special enhancement option on top of that for new players that let them instantly raise that SSR to max ascension.

[@kokichisscarf92]

they should do something like honkai star rail where you can pull up to 40-50 times on the banner and if you don’t get the 5 star in a certain amount of pulls it’s guaranteed

[@greybook6616]

yea the foca-select system is very useful in hi3, and they're prolly going to implement it soon

[@Truck-kun11]

Just the fact that the Pity System doesn't reset between Banners already makes it much better than many Gachas, as it ensures that your investment isn't wasted even if you don't get anything.

[@dighad3824]

Least addicted genshin player (honestly can quit any time)

[@thegamerfe8751]

Guess what game has a much better gacha than Genshin AND also saves pity between banners??? Honkai Impact

[@darksunDS]

They may have been among the first to implement this, but they're by far not the only ones since with several other games incorporating this system or similar. Also, many of the other Gacha, even if they don't necessarily have this particular feature, are usually more generous. There are very few games (especially among the popular/worth mentioning ones) that are as stingy with their gacha as Genshin is. Even Hoyo's other games are more generous.

[@eherden2169]

@@thegamerfe8751 Tower of Fantasy's pity is like Genshin's but if you get a 5 star the pity in the banner wont reset until you reach hard pity. But that would be a major loss for Hoyoverse if they do that.

[@The1andonlysharpshooter]

@@thegamerfe8751 I’m very sure it does much better than genshin in a lot of sectors but for people who can’t get into that playstyle, us genshiners will be stuck here unfortunately for us.

[@biggestouf]

I would love banners with each region that get unlocked as you progress through the game. It's not like you can level the character until you get to the region.

[@bangtanssera]

THIS

[@Sinovian]

The only one currently limited by region though is Inazuma. And yeah as someone who pulled Thoma early it wasn't great, but if you get them during a rate up you get the mats to ascend them to 40 at least with the trial run.

[@Birdboy69]

Yeah I started playing in the second half of 3.3 and my first 5 star was Raiden. It was really cool having her, not so cool needing to play for a month to reach Inazuma to level her.

[@163maesu]

@@Sinovian the issue is that you need to advance through the story in order to collect the weekly boss materials for certain chars

[@MultiWilliam15]

​@@Sinovian while that is possible, i just feel like exploring the areas far from mondstadt and way ahead of the storyline spoils the fun. Imagine getting Baizhu as a new player, not realizing his ascension mat (boss drop) is found on the far far west of sumeru, not to mention, you have to finish nahida's second story quest to unlock the weekly boss for his talent mats. Fortunately though, i think this problem uniquely applies only to baizhu for now. But if hyv will introduce new 5 star characters from Mondstadt/Liyue in the future, it's likely that some of their ascension mats will come from Fontaine/Natlan/Snezhnaya --- that is if there are still new players.

[@diahprasetianingtyas6822]

Don't worry. Three Limited Banners per Phase in a patch is more likely to happen. Limited characters will always stay the same. People said 2 characters per patch was impossible before until the Eula & Albedo double banner happened.

[@DeadVoxel]

A lot of people tend to say that the weapon banner would be impossible to pull for in that case (and it already kind of is), but what Hoyoverse could do with the weapon banner in case of 3 banners per phase, is fixing the goddamn weapon banner's pity system in the first place

[@diahprasetianingtyas6822]

@@DeadVoxel They totally could. And also, it's just a matter of time since as a gacha game ages, the more likely forms of multiple limited characters/weapons scheduled at the same time will happen. Say 5 or 6 characters per patch with the newer character(s) (max 2) on longer for the duration of the patch while 4 rerun characters running per each phase. Which means that the weapons banner could still stay the same. That's if Hoyo are lazy as in changing their pity system (worst case scenario).

[@DeadVoxel]

​@@diahprasetianingtyas6822 to be completely fair, Genshin used to only have 1 banner per phase. Now it's 2 There are already over 68 characters (according to the fandom wiki at least), 1/3 of them being limited 5 stars. The amount of wait between the banners is crazy, especially with some being prioritized over the other (Alhaitham rerunning 3 patches after release instead of 4. Eula being speculated to rerun in 3.8, after 2 years of absence. Kazuha and the Archons rerunning once per year, not counting freshly released ones like Nahida and upcoming Focalors, who (will) get their rerun 4 patches after the release) The least they could do is make it slightly easier, both for old and new players

[@asa_andromeda]

praying for it to be in fontaine

[@diahprasetianingtyas6822]

@@DeadVoxel I understand and empathize with all players about the problem. It's just Genshin has never had the good reputation about changes unless a lot of players complain or get a huge backlash. It's why as players we have to give them feedback and protest whether via the Genshin Feedback section or via their surveys. Just a fair warning that Hoyo operates on profit. "Fairness" isn't really a thing. They will likely use FOMO as long as it is possible. To put it bluntly, Genshin is a RPG open world Anime Casino. Don't expect a casino to be fair. Also, the opposite could happen and multiple banners would be changing on a weekly/bi-weekly basis. In that case, be preppared to have confused newbies and also people complaining they have no time to save at all. I've already experienced that in FE: Heroes, made me less inclined to pull or even play it anymore tbh.

[@KokomiClan]

They will need to adopt an approach like with Honkai (Impact) eventually - running older characters for a short window (3 days) throughout the current patch. Allow you to select from a limited pool and reset your rate up character/weapon.

[@mayysgy]

Yeah, you can get pretty much any character in just 2 or 3 patches thanks to FOCA-EXPA

[@lorraineviruet8973]

I’d have to say I agree. Would the characters that run for 3 or less days at a time be announced? Or will they be random?

[@aakhozam]

this is so smart i would love this

[@bishop4022]

The Genshin team NEEDS to get with the Honkai gacha store team. Honkai's system is far far superior. Old characters can be farmed a variety of ways with all the currencies depending on activity. Or, as previous person said, cycled into the banners. But, there is always a way to get what you are looking for. Why Mihoyo can't get this done in Genshin is just stupid at this point and shows a lack of care on their part. Genshin hasn't seen any real QoL changes since launch really (ie artifact loadouts).

[@fidgc6774]

@@bishop4022 Honkais problem is though that most of the old characters suck ass compared to the new ones so why bother?

[@Jeskgames]

Don’t forget about new player lockout. Imagine a new player pulling a character in 5.0. How long would it take them to be able to unlock all the stories and regions to fully ascend the character and talents.

[@EddyConejo]

If you're talking about getting to some places to get ascencion materials, that's pretty much an Inazuma thing. I got Itto when I started playing and ended up leaving him collecting dust because I couldn't get there.

[@Jeskgames]

@@EddyConejo also a sumeru thing because in order to ascend characters you need boss materials. So in order to level up sumeru character you have to play hours and hours of stories to get to the bosses to get ascension materials. Just because you can get to sumeru doesn’t mean you can fully level up your characters.

[@theworln.n4892]

​@@Jeskgamesnop, semeru u can unlocked every moment u want, inazuma u most do the story.

[@theworln.n4892]

​the boss material u still can be able to do it even without story

[@Jeskgames]

@@theworln.n4892 false. You need to do story quests like nahida’s story quest to unlock apep boss fight. Weekly bosses you have to do story quests for like doing zhongli 2nd story quest to unlock azdaha

[@rafaelbittencourtmiranda4338]

Even triple banners wouldn't solve the issue, only postpone the inevitable. New characters will continue releasing and sooner than later they'll need quadruple banners and quintuple too. A real solution would be to make older units accessible in an easier way, it's not like the 10th rerun of any character will break record sales anyway.

[@patrickcarter2829]

Exactly. This is why I'm partial to a Regional Banner (or at the very least, characters with materials based on their region that has them). If they keep to current, we'll have 50+ 5-stars by Snezhnaya, with even more after Khaenri'ah.

[@LandryArri]

1.1M usd is still larger than 1M usd

[@Shin_Lona]

I'm pretty sure this is what they are planning to do. 3 banners per phase and adding a couple 5 stars into the standard banner each new patch.

[@ocean7790]

​@@patrickcarter2829 they only release like 7-8 five stars per year tho?

[@patrickcarter2829]

@@ocean7790 apologies, typo, it should be 50+, considering we currently have 25 limited 5-stars (I'll edit); we'll have ~24 new 5-stars by Khaenri'ah. That's still a lot of reruns to do. Not to mention, that's only considering the Teyvat Chapter.

[@animeholictops1225]

Unless Hoyoverse makes a new standard banner, no characters that have been marketed and advertised as limited characters can be added to the standard banner, because Hoyoverse would risk someone suing them for false advertising.

[@sophieflash7423]

Yes,they could forget the entire Japenise Market, as they have Laws against advertising a Gacha Item as not permanantly avalable and then making it permanantly avalable. Understandable for me, it could(and would) be used to trap people into spending more Money. Also other countries have Laws against false advertising too, yet not so specific .

[@Runegrem]

@@sophieflash7423 I think they only claim the limited characters will never appear on the Wanderlust Invocation banner. Not sure if there are any other limitations, but if there aren't they could just make a new permanent banner and technically not be breaking any promises.

[@sophieflash7423]

@@Runegrem Jep,I heard that Suggestion also, my only intention was to make clear that I don't think they will put Characters on the Standart banner.Yet I'm wondering if a second Standart banner would be okay, because I do think that such a niche would be used, and propably was used, but I'm not that deep into the japanise Gacha Scene to no about the use of that specific Law niche.

[@18andcloudy]

what? they did that exact thing already twice

[@Runegrem]

​@@18andcloudy You're takling about Tighnari and Dehya getting added to the standard banner? They did claim beforehand that they would, so players knew that when they wished on those banners. So there's no legal problems with that.

[@bangtanssera]

What I would like: 1) to be able to buy ALL four star characters in Paimon’s shop cause it already seems impossible to catch a new four star and their constellations 2) Reruns based on NATION. If we have right now four nations then banners should have one character rerun per nation, in other case it’s harder to cover all the five stars they have But probably the 2nd point can be improved even better than I suggested 😅 still, 1st one is a basic need

[@razrafz]

fgo could do daily featured rate up rotation. so when they do a nation banner u can just wait for the day when your desired chara is on rate up

[@cocobeef]

Would love to see all 4* in Paimon's shop as well. Any time I want a new 4* and I try to pull, I end up with everything BUT the 4*. This happened when I just wanted to get my hands on Yaoyao-- I got Diluc, I got Alhaitham, then I got Xiao before I finally got a single Yaoyao. It's bonkers how hard it is to get a 4*! Harder than getting a 5*!

[@GT-xw7rg]

@@cocobeef its not harder to get a 4 star than a 5 star, you're just unfortunately statistically very unlucky (or very lucky rather since getting 3 five stars is not likely) and even if they were to add all 4 stars to paimon's shop it wouldn't fix much because they wouldn't add the new 4 stars because that defeats the purpose of a new character and banner so you'd most likely have to wait a couple updates at least anyway.

[@cocobeef]

@@GT-xw7rg yeh! I’ve been extremely lucky on the 5* front, tho it hits sour when you’re trying for 4*s and their cons and get a bunch of pretty anime dudes instead. 😂 Which is the nature of gacha but oof, would like to have some way of knowing that eventually, even if it takes a long time, that I can for sure add that 4* I like to my roster. It’ll never happen, but I can dream. 🥲

[@xxx_lolidestroyer69_xxxuwu58]

especially "niche" supports like Faruzan, Gorou, etc. If their constellations were easier to get players can be more encouraged to build them (instead of relying on Bennett most of the time) and also enjoy playing the 5*s they're intended to support (Wanderer, Itto, etc) more.

[@destro733]

I don't see Hoyoverse putting everyone on the standard banner at a low rate, but they could definitely start retiring some old units. And they could do what they did with lantern rite and make every banner phase 2 weeks instead of 3, meaning 6 banners per version instead of 4.

[@BBP-OMO]

as a filthy casual having 4 banners per version can already confuse me as to who is available when. makking 6 banners is pushing it at least for me as to what i can keep up with mentally. If we ever hit 8 banners in 1 version i will be so fucking bewildered as to whats going on you have no idea

[@milliemino8424]

Still no 5* Geo characters on standard. Even though we have two pyro claymores (dehya is weird). If it won’t be Albedo, as was rumored, perhaps a future release - a character from Fontaine, Natlan or otherwise. Something. Our last new Geo unit was ages ago, and it’d be nice to have one on the standard.

[@sakutaro3musik486]

@@BBP-OMO what is confusing about more banner? like for real just look what is there

[@destro733]

@Jing Yuan I'm pretty sure the same case could be made for units in honkai impact that were retired to their standard banner.

[@BBP-OMO]

@@sakutaro3musik486 having a version with 3 different banners all of which have different 4 stars and then there being 2 versions of the same banner with different 5 stars at the same time confuses my gay little mind

[@RadialSeeker113]

They need a Standard banner 2 and standard banner 3. It just makes more sense.

[@eirzaa0429]

Legally they can't since most of the new 5 stars has been deemed as banner exclusive

[@Sinovian]

​@@eirzaa0429no, if you look at the wording, it says they can't be added to the current standard banner. That does not limit them from creating a new banner with a different name for those characters.

[@EB_3693]

​@@eirzaa0429true. I lost two 50/50s to get C1 Hutao. I imagine many people who went through similar or worse wouldn't like just seeing their characters available for less effort

[@EB_3693]

Best they can do is hold of on limited characters for a while and do what they did for dehya and tighnari - one limited run to easen things for those who want them asap then off to standard banner. This would fit in nicely with OP's idea for standard banner 2 and 3 - as separating the new standards from the old would help lessen the crap rng current standard and 50/50 loss has

[@thegamerfe8751]

@@eirzaa0429 Tell that to Honkai Impact

[@buttermanaws4693]

I do think they should add something like a region exclusive banner since the current one is also limited by story as the characters we get are going to appear in the story/event meaning that once we leave that region it's far less likely we are going to see said characters unless that character goes to that region for one reason or another

[@hido...]

This is also what I think. Like make a regional banner that rotates weekly and maybe add the new character to the regional banner rotation after 3-6 months.

[@asa_andromeda]

yoimiya got a banner in 2.8 despite having 0 story relevance whatsoever lol but agreed

[@F1ll1nTh3Blanks]

I have been saying that for ages now but it's not the same without cashing in on the fomo.

[@buttermanaws4693]

@@asa_andromeda I believe she got another part to her story which probably caused it but yeah it's a weird outlier

[@rirururu4697]

That could work but then there are characters like Mika who would be on the mondstadt banner but requires materials from sumeru. Or poor Shenhe who's from liyue but requires you to complete all of inazuma archon quests and FIVE inazuma world quests before unlocking the boss for her ascension materials.

[@Vaskalen]

Tangentially related, I feel the starter 4-stars (Lisa, Amber and Keaya) should be allowed to have rate-up status in 5-star banners like in Star Rail, as a 4th slot so they don't take away from the other 3 rate-up 4-stars. They generally aren't the best units, BUT you only get 2 chances a year for a specific one using a currency you only get for rolling anyway AND they're so expensive with that currency that 99 times out of 100 it's not justifiable to spend them unless you're an Amber/Lisa/Keaya Main.

[@RenaissanceRockerBoy]

Kaeya is actually very good if you invest, I’m pretty sure he has some of the highest normal attack multipliers in the game. Plus, he heals himself (and teleports), and his ice is really good for combos bc it moves with him.

[@jadecoolness101]

@@RenaissanceRockerBoyyes, his average NA multipliers are the highest in the game for sword users. Lisa is also quite powerful. 30% def shred, off field electro, and her skill multipler goes up to 1000%. When she's C6, she basically becomes a "burst swap dps" only her burst... is her SKILL. And it does DAMAGE. Amber is......... yeah, no. Sorry. I tried my best to make her good, she's just... not.

[@abhipatil6409]

Eh kaeya and Lisa are decent 4 stars like Rosaria/diona/yaoyao now that dendro is out. Kaeya’s burst has near-ayaka level scaling with his c6 and Lisa’s def shred makes them both decent f2p sub dps options.

[@theshade0038]

ikr? they do it on honkai star rail, why don't they do on genshin?

[@CruelestChris]

@@RenaissanceRockerBoy I wouldn;t say he's _very_ good, his Cons are all over the place and build him like he's got no team rather than focusing on damage.

[@hazelmaple]

I think they should add older characters into the shop where you can buy them/constellations where they can show up 2 times a year like the 4* characters in there right now the shop needs expanding and this gives you something to save for but also let’s mihoyo get people wishing as it’s the only way to get the currency to buy them

[@Szczurzyslawa]

Yes please 😭4* rarer than 5* these days for real

[@Searchiety]

I actually feel like that the current system MiHoYo is genius from a bussiness perspective. Think about it - the general public can only know about when a character will rerun 1 patch before that character gets rerun, and that's taking the leaks into account. Most people, really aren't that patient to wait a whole year for a character, so they will spend their saved up primos on other characters they may want and poof - suddenly a character they want gets announced but they have no primos - forcing them to spend money to get the character they wanted from the start. They test people's patience by not rerunning characters for over 7 patches, and let's be honest - hardly anyone's gonna wait that long, even for Kazuha.

[@UmitSeyhan75]

Yes. Story telling, gameplay, graphics all are good and all but there is no way I can keep playing unless I am playing the character I want, thus I left.

[@silvinity4939]

It's great but also potentially super high risk, as people may just stop playing then. The thing is Genshin has really become too big for that to be a major concern.

[@a_sweetroll1627]

It's great but it's also a pain in the ass to get the character i pulled for into a useable state for combat.

[@digichu007]

You should see Fate/GO; some reruns took 2-3 years before they came back. Lol.

[@prasunbagdi6112]

😂you used his script style, damn

[@Truck-kun11]

If there's one thing they nailed it was Pity's system. Not only is this a decent amount to get a 5 star if you save and play often, but the main thing is the fact that Pity doesn't reset between banners, which means that even if I don't get anything my investment won't go away to garbage as in many other Gachas (Cough Cough....Fate Go!)

[@Carsu12]

The bar isn't too high. Punishing Gray Raven has much better system, where on debut banner you have guarantee to get rate up unit on 60 pulls, add them to standard banner next patch, and regularly run a banner with 2 characters with 70% rate on character YOU SELECTED with guarantee if you lose first 70-30

[@ZacSonicMee]

To be fair, that's about the single redeeming factor *of* the Genshin gacha system, and even then it's highly debatable whether it should be as high as 90 wishes.

[@Smug924]

fate is much more generous tho

[@ZacSonicMee]

@@Smug924 i like to give Genshin a lot of flak. But that's just straight up untrue. Going through, say, Sumeru to get a 10 pull is way less time consuming and generous than London in FGO.

[@Smug924]

@@ZacSonicMee but fate gives out free ssr tickets while genshin gives us a 10 pull for their anniversaries

[@alliu6562]

They could go the love live route and run banners based on topic or theme. For example, “dendro rate up” or “Liyue rate up”, and create an epitomized path system where you’re guaranteed a unit of choice after x amount of pulls. They will probably make it worse odds than the usual 50/50 system, but it’s better than never running the character again. And this can rotate once every half patch or so, for example “Liyue rate up” can happen during lantern rite, or there’s a dendro focused patch so they run “dendro rate up”.

[@razrafz]

very much this. they can also use this to skirt around the restriction they put upon themselves with the "5-star event exclusive chara can only be obtained in specified wish during specified period" they put in limited banners. (they can get sued if they went against this, esp with how hardcore gacha addicts are in china, korea, and japan) there is however, no such line for 5* signature weapons banners. so they should be able to just add them to standard without any backlash

[@PrompiTomomi]

Yessss and with a more similar game, Tower of Fantasy has started doing this like Elemental banner or weapon theme banner

[@ziebus904]

God thats soo fucking garbage idea

[@VrtielA6300]

​​@@PrompiTomomi Back then, I did return of play that game when was 2.4, but also another reason is Event Mission that collect shards for limited SSR weapons. After I got that, so I stop again

[@AnimeMemesz]

These changes are nice in theory, but mihoyo has no incentive to do any of these till they have a big competitor that is taking a large % of there player base. Money talks and thats what matters the most to gacha games they will keep milking the player base until it is clear they need to change something to increase profits.

[@duozgamingtm6700]

isnt honkai star rail big enough already tho? i mean by the looks of it even after Fontaine releases people are probably gonna be playing for like what 3-4 patches

[@owow_cosplay]

@@duozgamingtm6700 Mihoyo created Honkai so any money they get goes back to them regardless, they will still earn back what they lose from Genshin, it would have to be a game that's not owned by Mihoyo

[@duozgamingtm6700]

@@owow_cosplay makes sense

[@Wiradika1414]

@@duozgamingtm6700 Yeah... About that tho :v

[@Player-re9mo]

Wuthering waves will change the play field.

[@coco_chu18]

Here's a suggestion, they could like introduce a separate special banner that only last for 2 weeks that features a single 5* character alongside their signature weapon. Standard characters can also be featured in these banner, and characters who are rather old and already got many reruns are more likely to be featured in this special banner. And newer units that still didn't get their rerun can't be featured in this banner until they got their rerun. Also, it would be funny, if this hypothetical banner uses acquiant fate instead.

[@amouramarie]

Oooh. That's an idea I haven't seen yet. I like it.

[@Zhonglily_99]

Honestly for the first proposition, yes and no. A lot of people would be mad as hell to see that someone could have a characters they whaled on (because they were promoted as « limited ») for completely free on standard or losing 50/50. A system like that would work only if it was advertised like that from the start. Not gonna lie I wouldn’t know what to do to have a better gacha system besides one thing : having a guaranteed 4 stars that you wanted after x amount of pulls. But we might get some players mad for that too ehhhh

[@razrafz]

yeah but they can stop making every new 5*s limited. just dont fuck it up like they did dehya

[@Zhonglily_99]

@@razrafz seem way too good to happens one day not gonna lie, they still need to sell stuff. And the fear of missing out is their best strategy to earn a ton of money.

[@yowsghehe]

The guaranteed 4* is a great idea, I've been pulling for multiple banners and repetitively losing/winning 50/50 and yet there's not a single Heizou in my damn account 😶

[@razrafz]

@@Zhonglily_99 im not asking much, just 1 or 2 per new region. they can have their own featured rate up for ppl who really want them before getting moved to standard. fun fact, there are no inazuma standard 5*s

[@Zhonglily_99]

@@razrafz as said before, I think they would have a ton of problem because Imagine some people that spends 500€/$ for a c6 eula or albedo or Zhongli or Childe and then boom, now you can get them freely by losing 50/50. Pretty unfair in my opinion. But, I saw someone posting an interesting comment that was « regional banners » or « old and new banners ». The first one is interesting but doesn’t necessarily change a lot the problem. But a banner 1 featuring only maximum 2 years old characters and then a second banner system that features old characters helps to A) if you want a specific old chara because you are new you will not have to wait a ton of time like for Eula rn B) old players will not be pissed seing a lot of old characters getting an xth rerun like Childe, Zhongli or Xiao. If hoyo really want to put an « expiration date » on chara (putting them in standard after x years) they should advertise it for characters releasing rn before people spend all their money thinking it’s limited. It would not be scammy advertisement in this case. BUT if for exemple a new chara from fontaine is advertised as « they will join the standard roaster in 2 years », pretty sure a lot of people will not want to pull/buy because why would they ? I would love that old chara get in standard but let’s be honest, it will not get as lucrative as is it rn for hoyo.

[@sircharles1808]

I wonder if Hoyo would ever do a special event where there would be lots of banners available. Say an anniversary or a player milestone and for a limited time there were 5 or even more banners available to pull on. It could also be benneficial for Hoyo because people are less likely to have primos saved up for multiple banners so it would encourage people to spend money.

[@mune.t8691]

I've said this on a comment in a previous video: Regional Banners You have 1 banner per region, then you put every character of said regios (both 4 and 5 start) and you make a system just like the one in the weapon banner, choose 1 character for the hard pity and then you start pulling. Eventually you are going to get a 5 star, and you will get either the 5 star you choose OR a 5 star from THAT region. So if you want shogun you are gonna pull in the "Inazuma Banner", and if you loose the 50/50, you at least know that you can get Kazuha, Yoimiya or Itto, etc , is not the best but at least you KINDA control what you are going to get as to not "loose" you resources and get maybe a Qiqi or any character you don´t actually need (no offense to Qiqi mains, just an example)

[@danish2.012]

And does they share the same pity with the new characters banners?

[@mune.t8691]

@@danish2.012 I would do it so that they have an unique pity, just like the standar banner, but shared among them, then you would be able to pull either in the regional banners or the special banner withouth fear of loosing a limited character

[@Emily.R.H.]

I think it's worth noting that Hoyoverse, probably, cannot add featured characters to the Standard Banner due to the fact that every banner (excluding Tighnari and Dehya) has the line "Of the above characters, the event-exclusive character will not be available in the standard wish 'Wanderlust Invocation'". They might have their own way of manuevering around this line but in all likelihood getting characters on the standard banner might be more difficult/slower than we want it to be.

[@WyattOriginalTenderBox]

wait isnt it actually due to legal reasons? like if they added limited characters to standard it'd be illegal under some law

[@dap7650]

​@@WyattOriginalTenderBoxyes false advertising

[@lXlDarKSuoLlXl]

The solutions is so easy it's almost stupid. Just create a second permanent banner that's not called "wondrous invocation". They literally were so specific with the name of the banner that circling around it is just a matter of WANTING to, and that's why they don't do it, they don't want to.

[@Malam_NightYoru]

Keqing's Banner?

[@laylam9997]

@@Malam_NightYorupretty sure keqing was on standard before her limited banner

[@starfan6299]

You can really feel how restless the Genshin community has become after the release of Star Rail.

[@shadow-faye]

Problem is star rail has the same banner system

[@iDroiD-Gaming]

@@shadow-faye but much more generous so far. You get 60 daily, there's lots of quests and most of them have several parts with each granting some + daily messages + free pulls so far in 2 patches 1.0 and 1.1 via login event

[@yunyun5118]

@@shadow-faye I just started hsr and I have 4 5-star characters. I got my first 5-star in Genshin after around 5 months of playing

[@shadow-faye]

@@yunyun5118 i got my first 5 star in genshin the first week, but thats not what im talking about. The actual system has all the same problems addressed in the video

[@shadow-faye]

@@iDroiD-Gaming the only part of what you said that isnt true for genshin is the daily messages, and, while i do enjoy them, they give 5 jades

[@stratos2851]

Okay, let's take a look at it this way. You said that the characters are introduced differently compared to other gachas bc they are part of the world and you interact with them multiple times in the story/events/etc. The solution of putting everyone after a certain time into the standard banner sounds great on paper (I personally would also enjoy this feature), but it's only this great for people that already have a lot of these characters. Why? Well, as you said someone might really like Ganyu for example and wanted her on their team. Currently they would need to wait 0,5-1 year to be able to pull for her (which is bad) but if she moves onto the standard banner... damn, having to win that 1 in 50 chance to get the character that you want? I agree that moving more (good) characters to the standard banner and therefore to the "you lost the 50/50" pool is the best option, but as you said, people treat Genshin chars differently compared to other gachas bc they have this "deeper connection".

[@Sinovian]

A very simple solution for this would be to just make it a little bit like the weapon banner, and have an optimized path to a five star of your choice out of the options on the banner. It's also something that people have been arguing to add to the standard banner for a while now too.

[@arthuremo112]

First, they need to add more characters to the standard banner. Second, the standard banner should also have seasonal rate ups. The reason no one spends primos on the standard banner is because of the randomness of it.

[@amouramarie]

That's a good point. If I don't want either of the limited banner characters, but I see Keqing has a rate up on Standard, I'd be tempted to toss a some primos on it. Or those who didn't get Tighnari or Dehya on their debut, or Diluc mains wanting cons, etc.

[@nevs6084]

Chronicled wish was a step in the right direction but the still heavy time gate with reruns continues to be a problem for new or returning players. 2 week banners for more reruns would probably be the best solution

[@CryoflareTheWolf]

They should've made it permanent, it had so much potential and they just threw it out the window

[@The_Chaotic_System]

Wouldn't adding 5* characters to the standard banner cause legal issues though? Because the banners specifically state that the character will NOT be appearing on the Wanderlust Invocation banner. Therefore they couldn't add characters to the standard banner without getting in major trouble. Adding a new banner could potentially solve the issue, but I'm not too sure that would actually work. So yeah, adding characters- 5* characters specifically- to the current standard banner would not be legal to my knowledge.

[@owow_cosplay]

I agree, while it would make people like me (collectors) more benefit for the time and money we put in, it is in fact not legal for them, however as we saw with Dehya and from Tighnaris banner, people are going to spend money on the game even if the characters are subpar and intended to be on the standard, so either way, the company cannot control their consumers. as stated older characters on the standard would actually work more because a majority of players already have those characters and don't use them even if they spent a lot of money on them. That's just to be expected and any whale is a good example of that.

[@lilulipe]

They can go around that by changing the name of the Standard banner and stop putting that message. Is it a dick move? Yes, it is, but it can solve the problem

[@The_Chaotic_System]

@@lilulipe Actually I believe that would just make the problem worse. If a banner in which they cited many times in the past changed its name, that would definitely cause problems.

[@The_Chaotic_System]

@@owow_cosplay For some reason I am confused as to your point

[@owow_cosplay]

​@@The_Chaotic_System Basically I agree with you, it is illegal for them to do that but people will still spend money and then lose interest or find a new character they prefer more, if that makes any better sense, I'm not that good at explaining my thoughts sorry.

[@thedead073]

The thing that annoys me most is that standard banner weapons are basically gone unless your name is Xiao or Venti.

[@dangamez1230]

or diluc or ganyu

[@thedead073]

@dan gamez diluc doesn't appear on banners but Ganyu has Amos bow I guess

[@stormsend4966]

100% agree with the battlepass/event idea. Every patch you get an item towards a 5 star. Another one could be like with the Starglitter exchange. Add 5 star character and weapons to it and have the cost say 100 which equal 20 fates that everyone buys but people save up for their 5 star of choice or if you wish on them the minimum would be (working out and you dont have them maxed out constellation 1 4 star every 10 pulls and a 5 star at 80) will mean 300 wishes. Or 160 wishes if you have the 4 stars maxed out constellation. That is still a hell of a lot

[@bucuiaplays5944]

i think the best option to counter an oversturated standard banner would be allowing players to make a custom standard banner like the limited characters banners. this way not only players can chase after specific 5*, but can also work towards missing 4*.

[@thedead073]

Terrible from a monetary perspective. Worst case scenario perhaps

[@iamtheprotagonist5614]

from a business stand point, this would be a terrible idea for Mihoyo. It basically contradicts their current system.

[@bucuiaplays5944]

indeed it would go agaisnt the fomo culture to sell. on the other hand making players to spend on the standard banner, be it for weapons or for characters, would be a win situation for mihoyo as rn ppl dont use resources in the standard banner hoping to some day get the wanted character/weapon when losing a 50-50. (based on my gacha friends circle. Mihoyo would have better data for analysis on this situation.)

[@W0lfscythe]

That's something Arknights did in the CN server. Because the amount of operators there are. They split them up between the older and newer operators. You pick 2 6 star operators, 3 5 star operators, then you pick 1 6 star and 1 5 star to appear in the shop. That way you don't have wait for the characters to go on rate up.

[@Szczurzyslawa]

As someone who was waiting for a whole year to get Kazuha and Klee? I feel this. As a gacha player: I'm flabbergasted with the banner system. I love the pity that goes on through many banners, that is quite generous and I didn't play other gacha until genshin that was so nice about it, but the pace is terrible. I think even just introducing triple banners (6 characters per patch) would be better than what we have now. Less primos to go around one patch but your faves come back faster to try next time! And yeah in most other gachas u can just stumble upon a limited character/card, if not in standard, then in the limited banner on your way to pity/guarantee other new units, and let's say only in that specific banner that is active once a month and chance for a specific character is super low.... But it's there. Also I still haven't pulled Mona so I'll gladly see her in my wishes but point taken 🤣 Edit. Also I think retiring older characters like Klee or Albedo to standard would be a terrible idea (without some new pity system for that) because that way players like me who were waiting forever to get them, would lose their ability to ever guarantee them and that would be just too heartbreaking. I know people who play this game for 3 years and haven't pulled their favourite character still like Diluc or Mona or whatever. +I think older 4* should be added to the paimon shop like come on, in my year of playing I haven't gotten a single Fishl or Xingqiu YES NOT A SINGLE ONE like 4* are getting rarer than 5* what kind of gacha is this help (I know these particular 2 are in the shop but I mean like Diona, sucrose etc)

[@rheamartin4529]

bruh I’m AR 56 and neither Bennett nor Fischl have come home…

[@scorpion5574]

I mean to be honest double banners came up and characters didn't rerun faster at all, they rerun SLOWER in fact. I'm convinced it'd be the same for a triple banner. The problem is that it's still an extremely short sighted solution. At the pace at which Genshin is going we'll be having way too many limited 5 stars even just by the start of Natlan. So what, they would add quadruple banners then? Quintuple banners? Either they add triple banners and severely lower the rate at which new units come out (Which they won't) or they implement a new system. Sincerely, an Eula wanter since November 2021

[@Szczurzyslawa]

@@scorpion5574 I guess at least with quadruple banners, if they'd rerun everyone evenly (which they don't) we'd have rerun of everybody every half a year? I think (every 5 patches?). But yeah it's still quite slow and I don't even know what else to do, since in genshin I feel like we're way more intentional with going for just one specific character and wouldn't be happy with getting random 5 other limited characters we don't even want on our way to pity, like it easily happens in other gachas. I may be not in as much pain as you, but I still feel you, sincerely, a Klee wanter since 2.8

[@scorpion5574]

@@Szczurzyslawa My personal idea would be a separated banner that reruns two "legacy" 5 stars monthly on rateup, somewhat like the starglitter shop. Main issue would be that it'd still compete with the limited banners but you can't really do otherwise. And yeah let's just wait for 3.8, it's close enough!

[@seauouiaiouieaux546]

I've been waiting for Baizhu's release for literal years, I wanted him ever since he first turned up in the story in Liyue but because I didn't have time to farm wishes for his initial release, I ended up missing him. But at this point I have no hope that he's gonna be reran any time soon so it has honestly gotten to the point at which I don't even want to try because I don't want to farm for a date that could realistically be over a year away

[@Akefia]

I just started in April and I already see that problem. Similar to you, one of my thoughts was just put 3 banners. 2) Retire characters that aren't really popular anyway and not used much, like Klee. 3) Or throw like 3 random 5* on the standart banner that rotate every patch or every two patches - even without letting people know who is in pool additional to the standart roster would be better than what we have (excluding archons).

[@kudaice]

Klee still has a decent playerbase considering how many people pulled for her.

[@noelrakman9641]

Klee's rocking on current abyss 12, wtf are u talking?

[@Szczurzyslawa]

if you retire older characters, newer players will NEVER be able to get/guarantee them. I know people who play this game for 3 years and still haven't gotten their favourite characters like Diluc or Mona. Are they bad? kinda, but does it matter to a person who absolutely loves them? Not really 😭Personally I've been waiting for a whole year just to get Klee and if they retired her now I'd just quit honestly

[@Akefia]

@@Szczurzyslawa I think you missunderstoof what I meant with retire. Retire --> from limited wishing banners. To be put to the standart pool permanently.

[@Szczurzyslawa]

@@Akefia Yes that's what I understood - and as I said, I know people who play for 3 years and never got let's say Mona from a standard banner or losing 50-50. You might as well delete character from the game cuz there would be NO WAY to get them anymore. Not without introducing some pity system for standard banner like epitomized path or something similar.

[@richboywinston5097]

Maybe a good fix that won't make Hoyo lose money but will make it less painful for players to get old units is divide the standard banner into regional banners when we have a lot of characters? There will be 1 standard banner for Mond only characters and weapons, Liyue only etc. And these regional banners can share pity with each other like how the limited time banners do. The characters that could be exempted for these regional banners are all the Archons because they are supposed to be special, new characters released within the current x.0-x.8 patch cycle, and maybe just a couple old 5 stars that are really popular like Hu Tao or Kazuha. This way, the more popular 5 stars can rerun faster AND the less popular 5 stars can be obtained without taking limited banner slots away from the popular characters.

[@thomas_the_cat]

gacha is what it is... what's actually killing the game is mihoyo focusing on the wrong things (e.g. pot, tcg) rather than adding to what genshin is really meant to be, which is an open world ARPG

[@demonking-zm3rs]

Story Driven Exploration Game if it was a true ARPG then overworld (the one you spend 95% of your time in ) would be more difficult. The fact that the game doesn't demand you farm artifacts should be a clue Weekly bosses are behind story quest the Abyss is so far away on it own island and combat events rewards are set so low you don't even need to try TLDR it was never a ARPG nor was it advertised since 1.1 when they nerfed Childe twice and the entire 2.0 series where most enimeies got hit with nerfs

[@yomoheiliv6375]

​@@demonking-zm3rs Genshin hater.

[@julianburke7225]

@@yomoheiliv6375 I feel like he’s right tho you could beat the entire game with just traveler alone

[@ErisNoir]

One thing that I absolutely HATE Abt the event banners,is that they put standard characters/characters that aren't even on the banner,like imagine grinding for months and then you don't even get the five star characters you wanted,like they need to remove the five star standard characters from the event banners and just keep them on the standard banner. Cause its so annoying when you just wasted all your hard earn primogems just to lose the 50/50,idk why no one is talking Abt this tbh,like are y'all not gonna tell the company this good suggestion??!?! Cause we f2p players are tired and almost wanna delete this game everytime we don't get the characters we want. Like all the primogems and hours just wasted like that.......

[@brooksyang5834]

A bigger reason as to why they can't add them to standard banner is because of licensing issues. Under the limited time banners except for Dehya and Tighnari it explicitly states that they cannot be obtained on the Wanderlust Invocation (Standard Banner). So Mihoyo would have to make a second standard banner and then they could actually move 5 stars to that banner. Once again running 5 banners would be really confusing for new players, however it's better than Eula not having a rerun in 5 years.

[@hypershadow5g]

They could also do what HI3 did with a lot of older characters: Put them in the "shop" where you can use some kind of in game obtainable currency to get them. The type of currency depends on the age of the character, or even the rank of the character. There are LOADS of support characters (characters that genshin players would call 4* characters) in what is essentially a F2P shop, where you can easily farm for the mats, and you can farm other mats that you can sell for those mats. But there are also older characters that you can get with harder to obtain, yet still obtainable, in game mats. these are usually stronger, but older characters. With enough time, and more hardcore farming, you can obtain the fragments for those characters as well. And then there are some slightly newer characters that are in a shop, but you get those mats by "wishing" on banners, as well as converting fragments from other characters that youve maxed out on. But its still a way to buy older characters, without having to rely on the banner rotations.

[@Noblemartel]

I stand by there being a banner for each region.

[@PupDeLaTart]

I just think the standard banner pool should rotate the 5* based on nation every banner cycle. So each patch you have the chance of losing the 50/50 to get a 5* of that nation that is on cycle. Yeah it may mean the character you're pulling for isn't in alignment with the a nation you necessarily want. But it would add much more variance.

[@PopersIRL]

this would work for now but itd get weird as they added more nations, natlan and snyeznai or however you spell it

[@Mr.InternationalOPPA]

I believe adding a system like the one Pgr has would be very beneficial to the game in the long run

[@GhostEmblem]

What system is that do they have?

[@Mr.InternationalOPPA]

@@GhostEmblem the new character for the patch has their own banner that runs until the end of the update and has 100% rate up , and then there's a rerun banner where between 2 and 3 older character are featured and you can select which one you want to go for at a 70% rate up and it changes every two weeks. Pgr is the most f2p friendly gacha with the least fomo inducing gacha system, i think everyone that likes gacha games and are up for a little bit of challenge should try it

[@Mr.InternationalOPPA]

#ad

[@skrrtskrrt2410]

Common Kuro W

[@alazif7973]

In a truly ideal world, we can mix generosity with whale desires for constellation hunts. I think perhaps Genshin should have multiple standard banners with old 5 stars and move them in batches to new standard banners, then on limited banners allow users to have a weapon-banner-type pity on which pool of 5 stars they pull from AND incorporate a weapon-banner-type pity path on each standard banner to a specific 5 star. It would be a nice world where one gets closer to pulling Eula through rolling limited banners, every new limited 5 star getting closer to a specific older 5 star. Whales get lots of benefits too by passively racking up multiple character's constellations they want all year.

[@MadAsDuck]

see if we could just get a free constellation for completing the battle pass ( even make it premium only/ can only hold 1 at a time so people cant just c6 new units ) that we can use on any 5 star we already own, that would go a long way towards fixing major issues in the gacha system

[@idv]

@@MadAsDuck they wouldnt do that though, its a loss of money , 10$ for a free 5 star con? a loss of money when they can earn $100+ per person if they lost a 50/50 and really wanted the character

[@idv]

@@MadAsDuck if they were to do something similar to this it'd be a 4 star character, where every time you complete it you can either get a free character or free con for any 4 star, whether they're the starter characters or new characters

[@MadAsDuck]

@@idv true but how many people actually log in every day and get to level 50 on the pass?

[@mewstone8442]

In my opinion, the gacha system "won't fail" if they add a new kind of banner where characters (and weapons) that were released in early versions would be featured like you explained. The heresay though so far is the plan to change double banners to triple banners, it's been talked about since the early 3.0 versions. But the problem with that is how that would affect the corresponding weapon banner. They can't put old limited characters to the standard banner because of legal reasons.

[@cajunseasoning1846]

they cant shove them into the exisiting standard banner but they can create a separate permanent or rotating banner altogether

[@DeadVoxel]

As someone in this comment section mentioned, they did make double banners despite players thinking it's impossible, so a triple is still very possible too And as for the weapon banner: to be fair, it's already very rigged, and the epitomized path system doesn't help at all. You gotta have either insane luck, or a big wallet in order to actually get your desired weapon, especially if one of the weapons is, to put it nicely, not very good (Like the donut, or even Baizhu's weapon, which is honestly not useful on anyone except for himself) They already have to fix the current weapon banner system as it is, adding one more weapon to the banner wouldn't change much, as the banner is already pretty bad on its own. At least there will be more chance to get a better weapon (for example, there are 3 weapons, 2 of them are crazy good, the 3rd one not so much. There is at least a chance to get one of the other 2) Yes, it would make it even harder, but if it's already broken why bother? Having a standard 5 star weapon you can lose to on a banner with TWO limited weapons already needs to be changed itself. It would make much more sense to make it more like the character banners (where you just lose to a non-limited character once, and get your desired character in your next pulls guaranteed, that's what the epitomized path could have been in my opinion, instead of ONLY increasing a chance to get the desired weapon slightly, with the ability to lose to the other limited weapon still)

[@FlareBattle]

I started playing Genshin the banner AFTER Kazuha’s rerun. 😭 It’s time to bring the boi home.

[@poposao1]

A recent gacha that came with a pretty clever solution to this conundrum is Limbus Company. Where updates are divided in story-centric Seasons. So characters (IDs) that are specific to that season are only on the pool until that season ends. Then they go away and will only show up as sparkable 2 seasons later. But yeah, I think that Hoyo for whatever reason won’t ever mess with the main systems of Genshin. Even Starail, that seems to be what Hoyo learned through the Genshin surveys, still barely has improvements on the Gacha system and might reach as similar spot in a few years…

[@HoangNguyen-mv1wl]

Honestly, the idea of having old characters in standard banner isn't bad but the chances of getting them will slowly get smaller over time. Therefore I think making certain characters have higher chances to appear depend on months or weeks. Like Liyue characters will be more likely to appear in January or something. Then other months for other regions.

[@alexmaximus9134]

Yea, but the low chance to get a particular chr is kinda the balancing point. You trade the ability to get a particular character from the standard banner with the ability to have all characters available to be obtained at any time.

[@phyrexian_dude4645]

Possible solutions just based on keeping the marketing team happy, a standard banner based on regions or make that the 50/50 also has a rotation.

[@Zwurbelbart]

the point is, you are just not supposed to get every character you want anytime... you have to work with what you get and try to make it work for you. thats all the fun imho.

[@reeceranger5374]

Back in 1.1 or 1.2 I remember seeing an article that the game was going to introduce an item called bonding fates where after 10 pulls, you would get a 4* bonding fate which allowed you to choose the 4* character of your choice from the current character banner. You could also get a 5* bonding fate at 50 wishes for the 5* character of your choice for the current banner which had the potential of completely skipping the 50/50 at 50 wishes or higher. I thought this would make a great addition and further increased my investment into the game. This of course turned out to be false but seeing this video reminded me of that. I feel that introducing bonding fates or something similar would be beneficial now more then back then because of the increasing number of characters but seeing how aside from the epitomized path on the weapon banner, the wish system is basically exactly the same it was when the game first released so I'm not expecting much. I'm hoping something does change because we are about half way through the game story wise with about half of the proposed playable cast and it already is becoming immensely fatiguing hearing new characters coming out that most casual players are never going to get.

[@Nowaylarry]

The banner system does need an update, I agree. Adding older 5*s to the standard banner won't be it though. Due to the wording used on limited character banners they cannot legally move those characters to the standard banner. The exception being Tighnari and Dehya since the wording used on their initial banners clearly stated that they would be moved to the standard banner. CN's laws pertaining to gacha games is rather strict and other developers have had to pay serious fines for not adhering to their own gacha banner wording. They could however make a second permanent banner with a new name and move whomever they want to it. Personally I think the optimal choice would be a few changes. A choose a 5* system using (like you said) an event or BP reward. Perhaps you'd get one from the BP and one from the patch's flagship event with a requirement of 10 to choose your 5*. Make the pool every 5* from the previous patch cycle (so currently 1.x and 2.x characters). But only allow one copy of a specific character from this method per account (Say you choose Raiden, then you can't pick her again the next time you choose). That would still make reruns of many characters still have value. Next bump it up to 4 reruns per patch regardless of if there are new characters. Additionally add in a second weapon banner (that shares pity) whenever there is a new character with the second weapon on that banner being of the same type as the new character's signature weapon (example; New sword character come out, the weapon banner would be their signature weapon and another 5* sword). Another idea is they could make a "rerun banner" that is on a weekly rotation. Rotate through every character that has already had two regular reruns except the archons. Have two 5*s on the banner and you pick which one to go for (there is still a 50/50 of course). Once a character has had two regular reruns (21 days) they would then be added to the rerun banner.

[@ShadowDoesCringe]

Honestly, I feel like shoving like, eight characters on to the standard banner will be way too many characters even if we add a pity system like Star rail. If they ever add old characters to the “standard banner” I feel like they’ll add a standard banner 2, but this time they won’t ruin your 50/50s. If I need too add like, 7 different characters from different elements in this new standard banner they would be; Klee, Pyro. Xiao, Anemo. Albedo, Geo. Childe, Hydro. Cyno, Electro Ganyu, Cryo Baizhu, Dendro Even though Cyno and Baizhu are 3.0 characters, but that’s what you get when there’s no limited Electro characters until 2.0 and no Dendro characters at all until 3.0

[@sionparera7900]

Very nice video! I think you might forgot to mention that Mihoyo is unable to add existing characters in the standard banner because they explicitly say that they won't in the limited banner details. You can check it in game, it textually says: "[...] the event exclusive character will not be available in the standard-wish" This is a way to enforce the FOMO of limited characters and telling the players that I they dont pull or expend money they might miss the character for a long time (and in Eula's case it's blatant). But it's also limiting Mihoyo of adding them in the standard banner in the future. Before you ask, i checked it in Dehya's banner and this statement wasn't there. Also, i want to make a bit of constructive feedback about some statements you make. In this video you say that a change might only require 5m of IT work messing with a JSON or something like that. We all know its not 5m, it might be, at least a few days just to get the thing properly tested and fuctional. We all agree that the point is not the 5m but that it's a very easy change to do. Just saying try to avoid feeding the possible trolls ;). Finally completely agree that something needs to be made with the gatcha system in the mid/long run!

[@a_sweetroll1627]

Tighnari and Dehya begs to differ along with the odd Keqing banner.

[@sionparera7900]

@@a_sweetroll1627 You haven't read my whole comment, have you? The statement I mentioned has been in every banner except dehya, tignary and keqing where it has been deliberadely left out.

[@_Libosido]

May be add rule if you pull on the time limited banner, your pity timer dont reset if you get character from the standard banner, then add few low profitable characters into the standard banner and make more time limited in the same time. In my opinion is better for Mihoyo do sell more desired characters often, instead of re-run "outdated" ones _(outdated means they are powercreeped in c0 by other character)_ .

[@mrdata9823]

maybe add a yearly banner where you get to pick any unit in the game as the featured one ( and then the weapon too) and you get to pull for them :0

[@inferno1738]

Correct me if im wrong but i think they cant add limited characters to the standard is because laws wont allow it. I think its considered miss marketing, which means their hands might be tied on the matter My own simple wish here. I want them to go back to the 5 week banners. It made the game feel better imo, because there was little to no downtime between events. And banners came out faster

[@nando1881]

It`s not about the banners ( wich is a problem on itself ), is about primogems. It`s ridiculous that you have to wait 3 months to make sure you get enough for a character being a FTP player. Genshin is a gatcha game but without the gatcha part most of the time. My solution is: 1 - Give a full wish every day after you finish the dailies. 2 - Put every primogen in the abyss up to floor 10, and put enough materials for rooms 11 and 12 ( like they do in events where the primos are in the lower/easier levels of the event.

[@Ethan-yd4gn]

I love the ideas presented and i just wish hoyo would think about this sort of thing. The wishing system is long overdue for a major update of some kind, and i think the regional characters being made permanent as time goes on is a great idea that would honestly just allow for more flexibility for hoyo imo

[@Kill3rrockstar]

My main issue with the banners is there is no pity counter like every other gatcha game they expect you to count your pulls

[@Nickulator]

Making all character banners available at all times is the best decision that Mihoyo will never do. It eliminates the FOMO and objectively improves the player experience, but it will also actively hurt the revenue stream, but a reasonable person with common sense would notice just how much money that Genshin is making Mihoyo and conclude that this change would not affect anyone negatively, which makes it the overall best course of action.

[@h1p9y56]

A reasonable person would realise that actively hurting the revenue stream actively hurts the company. Sure any individual might think the company is making 'enough' money, but the company certainly won't think that, and it is the company that makes the decisions.

[@samkelly5045]

They’d get sued for false advertising, since they’ve marketed the characters as ‘limited’, making them not limited anymore goes against laws in certain countries like China, and I doubt Hoyoverse wants to get sued or lose a large portion of their playerbase due to legal reasons

[@roach-sama3503]

@@samkelly5045then they shouldnt have made genshin a gacha game, aka the most predatory type of game. even if there was no gacha system, there would still be players wanting to spend real money to obtain them and they can have a mechanic in game that would prevent u from buying too many things in one day. its really that easy, the only thing that stops them from improving the game is greed

[@theillustriouscosmowitch617]

@@roach-sama3503According to a KZbin video I watched not too long ago, Genshin Impact had a development budget of over 2 billion dollars, so unless Hoyo created a perfect video game that appealed to at least enough people to make that back within a week, the game wouldn’t be here in the form it currently is. There’s more content in a single region then there is in the entirety of most triple A games, so the inclusion of a Gacha System was the company’s best way to ensure that they could amass enough money to continue working on the game. Don’t get me wrong, Genshin is a predatory exploitation of basis human cognitive functionality and it should be called out for that, but the game wouldn’t even be here today without it and given how expensive it was to make, we wouldn’t have gotten to have played it until 2027-2028 and there’s no Guarantee that it would’ve made all that money back if it was designed like that.

[@higoodtoseeyouhere298]

​@@h1p9y56changing the gacha system would hurt the revenue but it would increase the longevity of the game. Its not a total loss for the company if it means their game can attract more players and keep the current ones playing for longer. But i don't think something like this would happen in case of genshin cuz the playerbase kneel before mihoyo whenever they give them smth like 300 primogems for free. They can make the current gacha system even worse and people would still find a way to defend it

[@RennietheRobit]

I think region-based standard banners would be the best way to implement bringing old characters back. This way you can spread a few five stars in each standard banner and associate it with other characters from the same region and have the either time locked, resin locked, or story progression locked. Even if these banners would be limited like the Noelle banner at the beginning, it would still allow newer players to "catch up" with veterans and give the standard wish items more value.

[@ziebus904]

Mond 4 Liuye 7 Inazuma 8 Sumeru 5 ......that will not work

[@GhostlyGhost333]

I kind of like what Star rail did. If you do X amount of pulls from the banners, you should be able to redeem a free 5* character of your choice.

[@markushyvarinen7714]

Yes, this is a great idea as well. I myself represent the smaller group of players who still want something especially from the Standard Banner. For me it is Keqing who I still don't have after god knows how many pulls...I would actually trade any of my 5-star characters or weapons for her if it was possible.

[@Tidalley]

>an option to work towards a specific unit they want. *Gives Brave Exvius and Star Rail examples* Guardian Tales did this even better. For each roll you pull on ANY banner (character or weapon), you get 1 ticket. You can buy a copy of any character or signature weapon in the game (even those that JUST came out) for just 300 tickets apiece. Vastly more generous than any Hoyoverse title

[@afonsomonteiro2003]

I think for now they'll most likely take the 6 banner per patch route. But down the line, I can see them getting inspired by honkai and creating new banner formats or rotations

[@foxwaffles]

I just started playing in May 2024 and thinking of how long it will take for Nahida and Neuvilette is pain 😑

[@zyra4732]

I just think it'd be better to have more waves with 2 banners per wave. Like, for now, three waves for a total of 5-6 characters, and the banners last 2 weeks instead of 3. This way, when we get to Natlan or even Snezhnaya (depending on how many new 5* we get) we could have 6 character banner waves of 1 week each (this would allow to have a total of 12 character banners per patch without making it feel way too overwhelming). That would be similar to what they're already doing in HI3

[@danielferrieri7434]

There should be a Banner with Every Character on it.

[@xdjojacs3677]

That should just be the standard banner, than the specific character banners are just more focused ways of getting a specific character you want

[@mdraj5655]

Yes and you'll get your favorite character in like 100 years or so if either you or genshin live that long

[@mrpinkjemm3518]

There is several ideas I have for a banner system. One is to have an elemental banner in the beginning of the first 2 banners that happens, these elemental banner can be chosen from the 7 elements and when picking one it will give you all the characters that are that elemental 5* and 4*, so this way you are pool the character you want in a relatively small or medium sized pool and getting duplicates of that character easier as well. Another way, is through getting story specific banner when completing a region, So Mondstadt would get Diluc, Fishcl, Klee, Eula, Jean, etc. Liyue gets, Zhongli , etc., and so on, meaning that characters gotten can be upgraded without needing a prerequisite regions player haven't even discovered, It would be cool in this banner, you can choose 2 or 3 characters to have a higher drop rate because you liked them in that story. I would imagine banners like these would stick around till you pulled a specific amount of times, or will be limited time. As a gacha gamer , I've seen a lot of games, mostly Epic Seven, give an event where you can pull 10 times for 10 pulls, and I believe having this event for just banners would be great as well. Lastly, it would be cool if you have enough star glitter or dust, you can get a shard of a 5 star character until x amount till you can get a character, because star glitter is only used for more wishes which doesn't completely guarantee the unit you want.

[@Error403HRD]

I wish literally any gacha game could let you choose your own banners. Back to back isn't allowed obv, and new characters could be made mandatory on the banner, but I'd love to be able to pull for constellations when i have the money, but not be forced to watch sadly as chongyun passes me by because I can't afford him rn

[@Aibadenshi]

It's an eventual change just not yet like dozens of Gacha. So the notion of it "will" fail is bit much.

[@hank01000]

One possible solution is very simple instead of a ticket system just add one 5* character randomly rotating through the list to straight up purchase a month like the 4*s. Just one, for the entire month, it’ll keep more characters fresh in rotation while keeping them still limited but not so impossible while also increasing the games flat revenue while delaying the over-saturation of the game to like you mentioned it would be good in a battle pass if they use a one special item system, in the end hopefully they make the changes needed to keep the game as fresh and interesting as long as possible.

[@Bell_Cat639]

What I've noticed as a new player is that the characters get less good the more time is going on, now this isn't a problem in other gacha because they redo the kits on the characters but Genshin doesn't so you're basically forced to play character you may not want unless you want to spend hours for a character who's not worth combat wise. We need rekits maybe doing different skins with kits or something.

[@Star_Rattler]

They should take some inspo from, oddly enough, Overwatch Lootboxes. Hear me out: The way the lootboxes worked was that if you didn't own something, the likelihood of you getting it increased, and if you owned something, the likelihood of getting it was decreased. To put this into Genshin Impact: Put 5 star characters that have had a rerun (TWO BANNERS) on the standard. Then, depending on how many constellations you have, the chance of getting them again drops. That way, especially with 4 stars, this will let you complete your characters. I have like c30 Fischl. And also not get Diluc on EVERY 50/50 LOSS. I HAVE THAT MAN AT C12!!! I'M NOT EXAGGERATING, I'VE GOT HIM THAT MANY TIMES!!!

[@mehdizade_2249]

I think adding some 5 stars to the starglitter shop might be useful

[@masterisle5662]

I think they should do a couple of things, such as make it easier to get rolls, because as it stands, you get a total of... 0.375 free pulls per day which is abysmal. If they simply made it to where you either A) get a free standard banner summon per day, B) remove the 50/50 system (they wont), or C) get somewhere in the realm of .75 free rolls per day, they'd probably end up with a larger community, and allow for freely pulling for characters someone may see as lackluster, or even getting copies of characters they love for free. I'd also argue that if they made banners for specific regions permanently after their respective patch is done for the standard fates as a revamp to the standard banner, it'd be a HUGE quality of life upgrade. All they'd have to do is slap a "Limited" on the Archons (and some others like Ganyu and Yae Miko), because a Zhongli from a standard pull would be ridiculous. They should also, in general, start to have the respective Archon be the FINAL banner for a patch. It would feel like you don't get access to the most important piece until you finished the story, and the hype around them would be so much more than what it is already. But these are just ideas

[@superpowerdragon]

honestly, i am the kind of people who enjoy the rarity of a character, i like the feeling that the character i own is the one i worked really long to save my primos to earn it, allowing the characters to be gained easier just cheapens it for me, i already own 11 limited character being completely f2p, making it easier is just not helping me much

[@MrSegadude21]

Nah you don't lose anything from making them easier to obtain. You had the characters when they were at their peak. Now that they are getting old and are not as good it is a chance for you to get constellations for them so they can keep up. It's not like they are gonna just give them to you either. In honkai Impact some older units are farmable but can take weeks if not months to obtain but at least you didn't wait for a banner

[@superpowerdragon]

@@MrSegadude21 nah, I don't need my characters to be good in terms of beating enemies faster. I just want them to be good in terms of story and character, which the old characters still are. The game is pretty easy to beat anyway

[@nekokoishi]

Tbh one gacha game I play that has a pretty good gacha banner system is Blue Archive. Almost all new characters just goes to the standard pull with the exception of the limited characters. It may decrease the chance of getting the character you want but they still have a chance of appearing as an off-banner pull.

[@zaboono]

I feel like a surprise banner that might run any time during the patch with a random character along side the other banner that only lasts a couple days would be cool

[@milliemino8424]

When I first started genshin, I was HOOKED on Venti. I loved him so much and, as a newbie, learning I couldn’t get him at the time was heartbreaking. There’s a good ending here - on his first rerun, I got him… and now have ALL the archons as a collection, with the intent of saving for the hydro one. :)

[@Harmonia96]

Having a banner up for each region seems like such a win-win situation for both parties esp. players who want to go at their own pace and work with the materials more readily available to them, and yet, it never happens.

[@Dahanmi]

Just as a little cope and info, around this time i believe in Honkais lifespan is when they started changing up the banner system to having their starter banner, adding a lot of characters to the standard banner, and running short 2 week frame banner party thing where 9 characters in total get rerun twice in sets of 3 during this week period. Honkai imo has an EXTREMELY predatory gacha system 10x the amount that genshin has, but it is made SO bearable because there are so many chances to get the things taht you want that its not even really a problem, when i missed Mobius the first time i was so worried then all my worries went away when she reran for the first time only 4 weeks after she first came out. If genshin just adopts this system that honkai has in place it would be amazing. Same thing for the battlepass, honkais battlepass adds a character or weapon around the time that a new character that somewhat powercreeps that old character comes around, just another way people can get what they want. And just as a final cope statement, with the situation with next update with *leak warning* no new characters coming to an update for the first time ever in the games history, it feels like they are going to be doing something with the banners next update or the update after because this cant just be a coincidence

[@Lunamowon]

Hey vars. Now that chronicled banners are out. What do you think of this? Did they somehow fix this issue?

[@TriteHexagon]

One of the many reasons I've stopped playing Genshin is precisely because in the year and a half I've played the game they refused to improve upon any of the bad systems they implemented. Almost as if they don't care about their player base (shocking). At this rate I would be surprised if there was a massive exodus of players during the next region.

[@cosmicpegasus9697]

I have a idea for banners. Every 5 patches they run a limited regional banner, where all characters of one region gets a drop boost 😯 and they add a super hard pity on that like after pulling 2 characters 3rd will be of your choice. The pity doesn't reset too. This idea is inspired from MHA strongest hero anniversary banner! They just had their second anniversary the banner contains 6 5* units which you get randomly but it's pity stays (last year I only made it to 70 pity and this year it was the same I started from 70 pity and got the 5 star from that banner) So it's a twist between both games banner systems and I think that will be great 😃👍

[@drekhunter]

Adding older units to the standar wouldn't be the answer because: 1: They were promoted as limited, period, I have actually pulled for some characters due to them being limited, I am actually gonna pull on the next Klee rerun because I don't know when will I see her get another rerun so I'm skipping Eula weapon, Eula cons all just for the FoMO. 2: There's barely any income when it comes to standar pulls, we get so few blue fates that I'm wondering why is it even there in the first place, diluting the pool will just make it worse. Having 3 banners per rotation won't be an answer in the long run because eventually it will get bloated and the problem will be still there, the amount of pulls we get for free is also fixed so you get one new character every patch if you're unlucky and buying doesn't help that much because after the first purchase the value is so abyssmal that I hardly can justify it so I skip. Eventually the worst thing will happen, imagine a whole patch of Inazuma characters, this one almost comes close, the new players are getting characters they can't raise and old players barely have any reason to pull already, this new abyss is an example, OH BOY I SURE DO ENJOY NOT BEING ABLE TO PLAY MY YAE TEAM ON SECOND HALF WITHOUT BEING PUNISHED BY THE ELECTRO BAT and since I already have to slot in pyro and cryo/dendro for the other shields I wonder how much I'll have left after making a team that can clear first half fast enough to go into the second half. This will sound crazy but Hoyo needs to start giving more blue fates as rewards, adding more characters and weapons to standar or create a new banner with a new currency because they can add the whole rooster to the standar right now and I would still be wary because there are not only underwhelming characters there's underwhelming weapons there, it has no advantage over limited and it cost the very same thing while being EXTRA random. I got a skyward pride like 3 months ago, during this shop reset I got a Qiqi, 3 months and dissapointment is what I got, let me tell you IF the constellations for some of those characters weren't so aggresively mediocre or straight bad I would be ok but they are TERRIBLE when you consider how long it takes to get one, losing on limited is a better outcome that winning in standar, let that sink it.

[@Samsamsam6969]

for me, the main downsides of Genshin are around it's format, the gacha, how game time is somewhat artificially extended through artifacts and other randomised things. but that also allows hoyoverse to put a lot of effort into an amazing looking game, really nice to play and full of details and stories, so i'll take the bad sides as I can play my favourite game

[@Tidalley]

>Make them wait too long, and you run the risk of losing them altogether So long as Genshin stays mega-profitable, I doubt the devs will care much about this... All the more reason why this game needs more competition. Tower of Fantasy and Promised Neverland aren't enough, apparently. As great as your suggestions are, Vars, I highly doubt Hoyoverse would even consider them in the near future

[@MiuMiu0735]

Honestly i like really like these ideas but another thing i feel could work is keeping the stand-alone banners but shortening their times each patch is usually a month and a half long so instead of having 4 banners lasting that entire time they can shorten the banner times to like 2 weeks in order to fit older character banners for shorter durations much like honkai and example of this can be in the most recent patch 3.6 wen baizhu came out shortening the time of nahida and nilou banner could have made space for another charscter rerun while still keeping baizhu and ganyu in the second half of 3.6

[@Therealpiemaster123]

1:43 I like how you mentioned a different game for that example. F's for my Alloy Mains.

[@randyjr.arsenio5624]

The banners arent a problem. No hate to Vars (ll) but the title is pretty overexaggerated and i hate that it feeds into the negative mindset of the players (which is just low hanging fruit). There really hasn't been a need for a Eula banner for a long time so totally not surprised that she has not gotten her rerun. Iirc kazuha went over a year before his first rerun. I'm sure more banners per patch will aleviate this problem tbh. Eventually we might also get 3 shorter duration focus banners per patch. There is really no need to add limited characters in the standard pool cause that will just oversaturate the standard pool and ideally one does not really want to lose a 50/50. The average genshin player spending pattern is quitw simple. If Simp pull no matter what. If whale c6 on character debut. Eventually character sales would typically decrease everytime the same character releases (which is the real problem IMO for Mihoyo's side).

[@chumbum3041]

I can attest to the whole characters being immersed thing. Speaking from my experience, I’ve dbz Dokkan battle for almost eight years and imma be honest… the characters feel flat cause like… WE KNOW THEM and there’s nothing new lore wise. It’s just transformations, the only hype is that it’s the coolest looking one, that’s why I like genshin characters a little more, cause they feel like actual people

[@kcamui__]

This is why I do not believe in "just pull for them on their rerun." If I really like a character, regardless of what people say or the circumstances, I will find a way to achieve them when they're still fresh. This is definitely what happened to me with Eula. She was my most anticipated unit back then and I'm happy I have her but I feel bad for those who also genuinely wants them. So basically, if you really want them, go for them. If you're facing some specific circumstances (expecting someone else) but also still really want them, then make ways around it or come to a decision considering all the odds and also hope for the best.

[@veeshadow]

That's the company intention so that you want to pay and become whale if you want to C6 5 stars. To be fair another problem beside banners is how few the top up options. Low spenders will be stuck with Welkin and Battle Pass for $15. That's it. I can spend $50 if the game can have another promotional top up with benefits. If I convert other game's experience, I can double in-game Primo rewards from everything with this premium (Spiral Abyss, Commission, Chests). The game even warn me if I almost get a Primo to cancel my progress If I'm not in Premium status and lose the extra rewards from Premium...

[@Tm-dy2bp]

nah the custom limited banner that you mentioned is the best possible solution right now where they run as many characters as they want per patch and you choose which one you want to build pity towards and can change between them for that patch rotation. Punishing gray raven has this system if you ever played that.

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

i think if hoyo wanted to make genshin a million times better and tackle their three biggest problems in one go (nonexistant 5 stars, meaningful progression and repeatable endgame content), they could introduce a new end game dungeon, which is a challenging survival type gamemode where you have to defeat waves of increasingly harder enemies, where once per patch they update the enemies like abyss and you get a reward which could either be a copy of one 4 star or like you said an item where getting 5 or so allows you to choose a 5 star. a 4 star character takes on average maybe 3k primos so one extra per patch is a fraction of the number most players can gain, and the 5 star thing is significantly slower than the rate you gain 5 stars even compared to f2p since it would take 200 days. suddenly we'd have much more reason to play for this fun new challenge mode that isnt a dps check, a way to guarantee progress towards our favourite characters with no significant revenue loss, and this would require literally 0 effort of any kind from hoyo they could even dump the current abyss enemies into this dungeon. the best part is this gamemode could have an endless wave that gets increasingly stupid (potentially with infinitely levelling enemies) after you get your last rewards which would finally give whales a reason to whale and f2p players a way to test their skills instead of their artifact/banner luck

[@lazyjester7]

I vaguely remember reading about how introducing characters that were originally promoted as rare, limited time units into a standard banner could open the door for some legal trouble in regards to gacha games. If, for instance, someone spent $500 to get a 5 star character on their limited banner only to have that same character put in a standard banner where anyone could get them for free, the person who paid could rightfully view that their purchase had been devalued and want some kind of recompense. This issue may only be applicable to gacha games that have banners in which the character can only be summoned using a premium wish currency that cannot be earned in game for free. If memory serves, I remember some controversy involving Zhongli when he first came out that may have had particularly irate consumers threaten legal action, though that may have held more of a political bent given where Mihoyo was based in at the time. Perhaps they wish to avoid any other potential controversies? With Genshin's system, it's not impossible to simply wait and save for a desired character by spending primogems gained in game on the needed Fate currency. I saved for years for Baizhu, skipping banner after banner with characters that seemed could be pretty fun to play, and while I was very underwhelmed by his skills, weapon, and leveling process (he's from Liyue, not Sumeru, so why do I have to go through a quest in another nation in order to be able to farm the materials in order to level him?!), I still value him for sentimental reasons. I understand that there are those consumers with unhealthy attachments to fictional characters who would raise hell if their beloved waifu/husbando were seemingly slighted by being put into a "standard" banner instead of their own unique one. I feel that these people would be better served by allowing more players to potentially play their favorite characters to see for themselves how awesome they are, but it is easy to say such things when one doesn't have have the same emotional/monetarial investment.

[@atomictesting8207]

Another possibility is to add older 5-stars to standard and then do the *opposite* of the weapon banner's epitomized path. Which 5-star on standard would you be fine losing to on a rate-up? That way either roll could be a possible win, and it gives players a path to constellations which they might not get for standard characters for years if ever.

[@estellebright2579]

Arknights regularly adds old ops into the perma pool and roster a couple ups in the standard banner, plus a 300 pull guarantee for the limited version characters. Even HSR has a once-only pick and choose system after 300 pulls. Genshin not doing that even after so many years, of which I don’t believe no one mentions the above before this video, means it is a deliberate business decision that cannot be reversed unless Genshin starts to lose player base en mass. What players can do is to just basically quit playing the game. With enough losing revenue, maybe the business side of Genshin would start rethinking what they have done wrong. However, the flip side of that action would be mhy shutting down genshin altogether. I mean, if genshin can still earn some $40m (just a random number btw) every banner, why would they have the incentive to break the status quo and improve the game?

[@KyzenEX]

Bro created the Chronicled Wish Banner 💀

[@Kingdom2605]

I would love if they gave you the characters in the story as a trial to complete the quest accurately to the lore.

[@atomotron]

What Genshin gacha does is essentially these two points: 1) makes it possible to get the desired character or weapon, and 2) prompts people who want specific character to play longer waiting for their rerun. Both points are beneficial I believe.