Why Guilty Gear Players STRONGLY DISLIKE Johnny

[@haggisman0812]

3000 hours xrd johnny main here, I believe that Johnny is even stronger than people even think its just essentially no one can play him well enough to leverage his full strength apart from perhaps Omito. He has so much character specific combo optimisation, if you had all the combos that end in lv3 + hard knockdown he's almost unbeatable.

[@peerlessvillain]

That's insane. I fell in love with +R Johnny recently and that's how I feel about him. he really is execution heavy. Literally just watching Satou and Suzume movement alone is mind-blowing. They realllyyyy did overtune him in rev2 , but tbf in +R he was way tougher to play optimally I think. But still, there's a reason there weren't 4 Johnny's in Top 8 and that's because man's is hard to play optimally optimally.

[@CatherineTakamaki]

He did warn us, he's perfect

[@AbhorrentRose]

I just love Johnny's aesthetic too much. The idea of throwing coins to use a big damaging button just looks great to use. Though I must ask does his resource if used poorly lead to a hard time or is it a non factor? Any Johnny mains that could answer would be awesome.

[@hirumaryuei]

If JO runs out of coins he has problems. His neutral is weaker and his damage is a lot weaker off most starters if he is in level 1 and has no coins. The issue is that the opponent is probably almost dead. JO gets so much damage off spending a level 3 mist finer that he only really needs to hit you twice with it and that's only 4 coins. That's a lot of coins to spend on winning neutral.

[@AbhorrentRose]

@@hirumaryuei Okay so it sounds like he's just a bully character through and through. Makes me appreciate him that much more. Appreciate the info!

[@webbowser8834]

Not a Johnny main, but I've watched a decent amount of tournament Johnny. Coin is a very key piece of Johnny's offense, and Johnny without coins is a much weaker character. However, Johnny has so many coins, and the coins are so strong, that by the time a competent Johnny has used all of his coins, he's at such a huge advantage that he can usually find a win anyway. If you try to spam them like normal fireballs then you'll have a bad time, but the fact that they're ridiculously plus on both hit and block means you can weave coins into your combos and pressure strings to for excellent damage or damage opportunities respectively.

[@AbhorrentRose]

Its interesting to hear he's a resource character whos resource never seems to force him to make tough decisions most of the time. With Lordknight saying he was a top 2 character I can see why people dislike fighting him. Ill have to try him sometime he sounds really fun.

[@HorseyWorsey]

He's what all reddit moderators aspire to, but will neverreach

[@jacobpantin7803]

Johnny was cool looking enough with Xrd visuals, i can't wait to see him in the strive visual style, especially the J super.

[@beaver_eater2447]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIDCpXZvd75gZq8 His design has been leaked, look like they go the same route with Baiken and keep him mostly the same

[@HandOfVecna1188]

Crossing my fingers he gets Ensenga back instead of aerial MF, was the best animation in XX

[@nameputhpong9041]

Ensenga looks cool but mf serves a better purpose.

[@senji1652]

got some news for you my man

[@jacobpantin7803]

@@senji1652 They didn't change his design because he is perfect

[@NeoBoneGirl]

Inb4 people who never fought Xrd Johnny go “He’s still more fun to fight than Elphelt!” If I were to explain it, it’s that Johnny is the best and most scariest character at *forcing* you to act. His mix is just strike throw, but because of how mist finer and risc works, he’s constantly swinging with plus on block, high attack level moves that build your risc. So you have to act because of you don’t he’ll combo meterlessly off throw and kill you, but if you do that still opens you up to damage. Another small point I wanna add is that coin is super strong cuz it’s a limited resource, but it doesn’t feel limited enough to the point where any competent Johnny will end most matches with like 3-4 coins to spare

[@jacemoran1190]

I didn’t play xrd and I’m not gonna act like I did, but it’s kinda like May in early strive right? Her pressure forced actions and totsugeki kept her on the offensive?

[@hirumaryuei]

@@jacemoran1190 No, it's honestly much worse. Xrd Johnny is/was kind of a plague. The stuff that LK is talking about is execution dependent unlike Strive May (mist cancels are like, 5H 214[X]~H) but as a result, the people that are good with him and can do that execution reliably just dominate you. The worst of it really is that Johnny is cool and most people like him, so it is kind of soul crushing for him to be so firmly unfair. No Strive character really encapsulates what Xrd Johnny was like, at least in an unfair way. The closest example would be sort of like an unholy fusion of Ky and Nago.

[@jacemoran1190]

@@hirumaryuei oh ok, I see now thanks. I played him a bit in +r and didn’t think he was that bad, but I see now his xrd days were much worse.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

@@jacemoran1190 Not really. The dolphin that's plus is reactable and interruptible. Level 3 Johhny pressure's only real out is when he dashes up, because he can't dashblock due to his stepdash. Imagine if Nago doing 6H back fukyo didn't move him back almost at all and was +10 on block, and lead to a full combo on normal hit

[@jacemoran1190]

@@NeoBoneGirl ok yeah that’s nasty if someone knew how to utilize it.

[@dragemis]

I think there's one more thing that makes Johnny unbeleivably unfun to fight: Many of his combos are naturally burst safe due to the range of his air normals and the angles that he juggles you at from the ground. This adds to the problem of Johnny feeling really non-interactive to fight. His pokes are amazing and plus on block. If he ever counter-hits you, he gets 60% unburstable damage on much of the cast (if he has lvl3). All of the things you mentioned in the video AND he gets a good reversal super AND coin YRC is like +90 on block AND he is heavy and therefore harder to combo. It's not just that he's strong, it's not just that he's the strongest in the game, it's that he's strong in ways that are impossible or extremely disadvantageous for you to interact with.

[@erikkublack4523]

Johnny's finna be the next character; we're talking about him too much, he'll be accidentally conjured through humanity's collective subconscious.

[@ZachStarAttack]

I get it haha

[@Arunnejiro]

oof

[@erikkublack4523]

@@Arunnejiro Yeah, I capped so hard. I'm a fraud.

[@devinnix9071]

So uhhhhhh

[@user-bkey]

smh

[@bazelgeuse2231]

I’m gonna keep coming back to this video to see how different Johnny plays when he’s released in Strive.

[@TheRedDreadlock]

Damn beat me to it

[@starseeker1829]

In a lot of ways he's similar to Nago. Corner pressure involves getting pressured by big buttons, threatened by throw or risc crank (minus the YRC 50/50s lol). Crazy combos/conversion-ability. Fast movement options are tied to attacks/specials. Big buttons and controlling that forward/upper space with Nago 2H/P mist finer. I'm very curious how Arcsys re-makes Johnny for Strive.

[@presidenthakan2635]

They will put Johnny in a wheelchair for strive

[@rpemulis]

@@presidenthakan2635 that would be so incredibly sick actually, like bring a fan favorite back but oh yeah hes uhh... hes crippled. the wheelchair isn't electric or anything and doesn't move but it does have a boombox on the back. and he's also got a glock 9 for some reason.

[@presidenthakan2635]

@@rpemulis because he can’t move it basically becomes happy chaos but ten times worse. I think that would be funny for a joke character, oh also he doesn’t have to reload the glock and can just spam indefinitely.

[@pslovebird]

Well you're about to get your wish -- he's coming on the 24th of this month! Your comment aged well lol.

[@kenshin2820]

@@presidenthakan2635they did

[@rensenware5375]

Damn, I never played Xrd and didn't know he was this different from XX Johnny.

[@teppa4191]

I honestly thought happy chaos was gonna be like johnny in terms of how you would use coins/bullets to combo kinda sad how thats not the case

[@FirstLast-yu4iu]

I'm just gonna copy paste my comment from the last johnny video because it's more relevant to this one. Johnny reminds me of a concept from MtG. In Magic there's what's referred to as "fair" or "unfair" decks. Fair decks play the game basically as intended, they use creatures and spells to eventually reduce your life to zero. Unfair decks have some alternative gameplan to win, either an infinite combo, or discarding a huge creature to reanimate for cheap, or making their opponent completely unable to play . But, at least in this usage, "fairness" has nothing to do with powerlevel. You can have terrible unfair decks and completely broken fair decks. Johnny has always struck me as an Overpowered Fair Character, if that makes any sense. For an Arcsys top tier, he's actually really... standard. He's got massive hitboxes, fantastic frame data and enormous and stable damage, but the only really wacky thing he does is the unblockable, which at least for classic Arcsys is on the lower end of crazy shit. He doesn't put invisible traps on the screen or ignore blockstun or autoblock everything or ToD you at round start. He's not even really that good at mix compared to most of the rest of the cast, you'll never get reset 3 times into death or forced to block multiple unseeable high/low/left/rights or anything. He just wins neutral by default, does unchallengeable pressure and then kills you when you eventually make a mistake. And he looks extremely cool while doing it. He's been on top long enough that a nerf is definitely deserved, but of all the characters in Xrd Johnny is one of the ones that I would mind being the best the least. In the alternate universe where Ram and Johnny switched positions the game is much worse off.

[@zero123alpha6]

What would be some examples of worse arcsys top tiers?

[@FirstLast-yu4iu]

@@zero123alpha6 Testament, Zappa, Baiken in +r, Izanami in BBCF, BBCP Kokonoe, Labcoat 21 in DBFZ but that might be mostly Bandai Namco at this point, Ram in Xrd when she first came out, Zato in every game where he's top tier, and I've never played P4A so I can't comment but some of the shadow characters look whack. Don't get me wrong, Johnny is amazingly strong, but he doesn't really break any rules of the game. When Johnny steamrolls someone you just go "Man, those conversions/damage/pressure," when Zappa steamrolls someone you just go "Man, what the fuck?"

[@zero123alpha6]

@@FirstLast-yu4iu Xrd sign ram was busted?

[@FirstLast-yu4iu]

@@zero123alpha6 She got nerfed in one of the balance updates before Rev if I remember right, but you didn't use to be able to interrupt the swords during startup so she had almost unchallengeable neutral into fullscreen corner carry off any real touch, and still had her nasty corner setplay/resets

[@trentawsome8118]

Didn't realize he had a tech like this. Squiggly in skullgirls can do something very similar with charge cancelling though I feel hers is scarier as she can just go for high, low, grab out of no where and convert of any of them and all the opponent can do is hope they guess right or super out.

[@jasonslade6259]

Yes, in fact Squigly's stance mechanic was specifically inspired by Johnny and Order Sol. Its true Squigly has a standing overhead but Guilty Gear doesn't have pushblock. Pushblock is the thing that keeps Squigly in check in that game. Otherwise she'd put you in an infinite blockstring. Johnny doesn't have to worry about that. He can just crank your RISC by 50% while also being like +18 on block.

[@bruis1527]

I’m a very simple person. I see an LK video gets uploaded, so I smile and click on it

[@megatenshi]

Johnny has Susano sword on command, except he can cancel it extremely fast, always has it unlocked, and leveling it up makes it more like the super version. Mist Finer is such a cracked special, even by high power anime fighter standards.

[@chrisladd1523]

I was just thinking about xrd Johnny today and rewatched your “are these Johnny highlights sick” video my simulation is broken

[@DctrBread]

johnny's a funny one. Honestly I dont think this video covers it, because he actually has almost the exact same characteristics you pointed out in +R as he does in Xrd. He is inferior across the board in +R, but he has everything you've mentioning in this video there. Imo his main buffs in Xrd are #1. new school 2h makes him way harder to low profile and #2. His conversions are way more consistent and rewarding, against more characters. shit like sweep into coin always hits, and he can get coin into hard knockdown off throw in anywhere on the screen vs any character. In +R he was generally worse at this. He has way more buffs than just those. Again, he is buffed to the extreme and across the board, but those are the main buffs. The thing is, I would mostly attribute his being #1 in the game to the sum of the numerous buffs he's had across the board, because he had so many. Overall I think nerfing johnny ought to be an easy task, because nerfing almost anything about him is relevant.

[@eddiepham2280]

I played some accent core and tried out Johnny and he’s very fun, giant ass sword normals, cool ass walk and supers, mist finer stance(especially teleport) being a drug as well as its lv 3 giving it so many slashes, the fact I get to throw money at people, and bacchus sign being ignorant

[@bldEagle-oj3os]

I want Johnny to make it back. Since I've played strive since launch then went back to xrd 2 with my buddy and tried Johnny some. his kit felt very fun.

[@garouchill6872]

If ever Johnny will make it back in Strive, they'll definitely gonna lessen and maybe nerf his moveset. He's gonna have 5 coins instead of 8, his Mist Finer can only max into Level 2, and his Zweihander. Since there's a wallbreak in this game, his Mist Finer feint cancel juggle combos will also be minimize on how long can you juggle using his Jumping Dust Attack.

[@VeylmanTheRock]

As far as I can see it, he's pretty strong and frustrating to fight but also hard to play and looks cool.

[@jakesimpson3373]

Johnny was the first GG character I played all the way back in accent core + R, I hope he makes it in

[@Buun_]

Congratulations

[@internetsavage8733]

Current day rev Johnny is still considered the best by the way, that hasn't changed. Almost everyone else under him is negotiable but the current community still universally puts him as top 1, followed by elphelt but lots even make enough of a distinction between those two that johnny is often in his own tier.

[@danik.doomers]

imagine me, 40 hours beginner who met one day three fucking Johnny mainers. All I could do is just watching them making infinite combos 😭😭😭.

[@Clickstop24]

I was drowning before I clicked this video when he said minus 14 to plus8 what kind of monster was this character

[@defianthound407]

This is the first time "Strongly Dislike" actually fits. Johnny was a menace but he was so stylish people let him get away with the BS.

[@matirahat3180]

He's just perfect No one dislike him

[@mikairu2944]

I want to add that Jhonny is among a few privileged characters that get a combo of a throw for no good reason, and Jhonny specifically is one of the even fewer ones that ALSO get a combo off it even midscreen

[@RealBigMitch]

I am in love with johnny i hope he gets into strive

[@MuiltiLightRider]

And his god damn throw... Cause after he jacks your guard bar, he'll throw you and do massive damage that isn't as heavily scaled due to the RISC being jacked

[@silouhette99]

Will you do zappa at some point or is he too far back

[@TekkenShazam]

I hope Johnny makes it back just to see Omito play. Always funny watching some guy out of a Delinquent Manga in a letterman jacket just styling on ppl.

[@RycoreXIII]

I always got the impression that Johnny was one of the more liked top tiers.

[@blyat8832]

definitely lol, especially compared to the other annoying af top tiers

[@adamswing6115]

Nah he was just as annoying as elphelt

[@povertyeditor4898]

Fighting against Johnny doesn't feel nearly as annoying as something like Elphelt but once you start to notice how good his tools are, it becomes a lot more obnoxious. It's weird since I find Johnny to be somewhat more tolerable compared to characters like Venom or Raven

[@seokkyunhong8812]

@@povertyeditor4898 because he doesn't lock you down. He just slaps harder and faster than everyone else.

[@CrowFGC]

Yup, hate it. Hope he’s revealed tomorrow.

[@aganaom1712]

well this is certainly interestingly timed

[@damontejohnson2469]

I’m so curious what lord knight means when he says you can’t find this character normally in neutral? As someone learning strive I’d love to know in case Johnny comes back but also for ram.

[@094176]

I guess what he means is that mist finer 2 and 3 are such huge considerations that just being out of range of his normals isn't enough.

[@arachnofiend2859]

If/when Johnny comes back I expect Mist Finer to stay but for Mist Finer cancels to go; building up to a big iaijutsu slash is cool, jerking the hilt of your sword to stay plus is kinda wack.

[@NeoBoneGirl]

I mean that’s literally the entire point of the character though? Why bring him back if you not gonna keep the thing Johnny players like about Johnny

[@sladevalen]

@@NeoBoneGirl Ask baiken and testament that then. They got entire overhauls and don't even resemble the same characters anymore

[@NeoBoneGirl]

@@sladevalen Yeah I’ve got a problem with Ram and testament too lol, don’t worry

[@looneymar9153]

hes a gambler and mfc is his way of bluffing his way through, it's literally in character

[@gmvchill2182]

Johnny's gameplay is definitely a one-shot character just like Nagoriyuki if he's announced as one of the Season 2 DLC character. If he has the Levels 2-3 Mist Finer and can also cancel this move, imagine how long he can juggle and how much damage he can deal to destroy his opponent, especially on Counter-Hit.

[@duskmantle2562]

level 3 mist finer off the baka mitai got me cryin in the club

[@kaiser8773]

Anyway, Johnny in GGST when?

[@takohma1056]

He’s such a cool character though. I never got to really use him due to my best bud playing with him, but never fully utilizing him lol.

[@biminent]

rare lk video thats not recorded on stream?

[@YukonJack]

I always appreciate the work you put into your videos LK. In my (never humble) opinion, you are one of the top fighting game content creators. Thanks for all you do big homie ✌👌 👍

[@scarecrowsupreme4365]

I wonder if his coins will be a guard crush...or maybe the unblockable setup will be. One can dream, right?

[@moistwindow6094]

Forgive my ignorance but is Johnny's mist finder like Squigglys stances?

[@Strxtis]

Squiggly is inspired by johnny

[@tingispingis]

What I've learned is that Guilty Gear players just fucking hate every character

[@rlskymind]

I think that they'll get rid of his unblockables, but his coins will probably give counter hits for him. His mist finer will be toned down.

[@heavenlyhurricanebuster6138]

Bring back the fullscreen Level 3 Mist Finer and he'll be the top tier character in Guilty Gear again. As long as they keep his usual Xrd moveset, he'll be op as heck. Can he rival Nagoriyuki's power, tho?

[@brb_coffee9077]

"Is he saying Misfire?" Okay, I can see it. "Mist Finder"? Hmm, okay, that could be it. "Mist Finer"?? What the heck is that!?

[@duhmitryov]

"Damn bro that was close you almost selected I-no ha ha, come on press start we've got Johnny combos to grind"

[@vincechan2096]

Not to mention that you cannot burst out of johnny combo or pressure since he's never actually next to you, since he his reach is dhalsim like.

[@adamwall-r6f]

But unlike Baiken, we actually respect Johnny

[@blyat8832]

your gonna have to respect Johnny or else your gonna lose half your health to a mix lmao

[@BIaziken2]

LK kicking himself for making this video well before he was announced for Strive.

[@HellecticMojo]

When Johhny gets released he'll either be the new Happy Chaos or just ignored because Chaos is better. I foresee a lot of guard crush lv3 mist finers.

[@MrCowman57]

Hell yeah.

[@maxrusty3596]

With the way Johnys movement works i think hell have a hell of a hard time in the Happy chaos matchup.

[@felixc.4294]

Hope he keeps his combo conversions, it's so core to his character

[@seokkyunhong8812]

@@felixc.4294 hopefully not. What Ram is doing now is basically a taste of burst safe conversions and neutral you are gonna deal with when Johnny comes.

[@YukonJack]

@@seokkyunhong8812 I haven't played Strive since the Baiken drop and I mained Ram mostly. Has she changed a lot since then?

[@heretykalsciences2655]

First GG and now ultrakill, why are coins so OP/Cool in games?

[@colboy123]

"characters not in strive" Reported for misinformation

[@AlterAce]

they dislike Rev Johnny just clearing that up lmao

[@ChickenC3]

wow didn't know he could make himself so plus with the cancels

[@Robeebert]

I speak for all guilty gear players(even you) when I say "All Guilty Gear players love Johnny." It just be that way

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

Least delusional Johnny fan

[@Akhlore]

That's a weird way to spell love (edit: I think by the end, JP considered millia best in game, thanks ranger)

[@sjjdkxjcbejsj]

The johnny hype is getting bigger

[@looneymar9153]

why yes i love defending my lil silly corner from the character that spams me with half screen normal that is +billion on block and gives him entire weekend to hitconfirm and it doesn't even matter if i press or not because my risc bar is as bright as bezos' children's future

[@doveingly]

he's still considered the best character in the game. with the exit of all the really strong elphelt's it's not really considered a contest anymore who's stronger.

[@6rudgegaming]

Awesome vid

[@Definitleef]

Biggest complaint: he isn't wearing Kamina glasses

[@muffinman7000]

I can't hate on a character that looks that dope, even if he is busted.

[@trapdoorbeaver]

JOHNNNNNNEEEEEEEEEEEE

[@celinecedd6764]

Johnny IS COMING TO STRIVE IT'S A FACT SRY

[@100blackstarsoul]

I know this has nothing to do with the video but im new to GG strive but im looking for an experienced players who wouldn't mind playing a new player on ps4 so I can learn the game and get constructive criticism on my gameplay if anyone is interested

[@jasonparks472]

he's too cool looking of a character not to get in strive

[@garretwoeller7669]

Only XRD players don't like Johnny bc if I recall right he was mid in most GG games and he was still less busted and more fun to fight compared to Ram in strive

[@Nikita_Runa]

Well look now

[@goofygoober4205]

But cool hat and sunglasses😢

[@MrCraftingchannel]

I really hope that if he comes to strive his kit is changed and made to be less absurd. I really like his character design and the ideia of being an Iaido character, but his implementation in Xrd is unreasonable at best

[@Morbius664]

Thats just wrong. Jonny it the good type of op

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

Striver

[@Morbius664]

@@АртёмТор-к2ю i play manely rev 2

[@wizard5552]

Omito twerked on everyone too

[@zacharyjennings7675]

Seems perfectly fair to me

[@BirdManJones]

WOAH WOAH there cheif (even though I didn't start the vid yet and will watch later) but I don't think I've met any xrd player who really "hated" Johnny lol. That nigga was cool af to watch and play Edit: was he annoying to fight? In my experience with millia I felt it was even or slight Johnny favor. I can see him being annoying for others not like elphelt where people wanted her tf out of the game lol

[@oscriadocomandosancto2898]

I like him

[@YoTerrako]

Oh god

[@warp5532]

people dislike johnny???

[@aseemikitsu7687]

His kit, not his character Just like Elphelt Even then... Bring Elphelt to Strive!

[@Jesus-hu4lq]

I remember someone posted how they would put up with Johnny over elphelt

[@baconatortapeworm]

they just have a skill issue

[@joebrown6778]

There's always one thing that ruins the look of Guilty Gear characters for me on a visual level, generally. They look so bad ass, but there's always one detail too far and it veers to 'trying way too hard.' Sol with his Free belt and flairs. Goldlewis with his chaps. Now Johnny with his ridiculous belt buckle. The better examples of GG characters without this problem are Baiken (not for the reasons you think), that black vampire dude, and the goth one that released recently.

[@harryvpn1462]

Why is your game is korean

[@seokkyunhong8812]

That's Japanese

[@NeoBoneGirl]

It’s not??? It’s clearly in Japanese because he bought it before it released in America

[@harryvpn1462]

@@NeoBoneGirl idfk the difference between korean and japanese writting

[@edlerkrieger8045]

Cope I love Johnny and I don't even play him

[@mrCetus]

In a lot of ways he's similar to Nago. Corner pressure involves getting pressured by big buttons, threatened by throw or risc crank (minus the YRC 50/50s lol). Crazy combos/conversion-ability. Fast movement options are tied to attacks/specials. Big buttons and controlling that forward/upper space with Nago 2H/P mist finer. I'm very curious how Arcsys re-makes Johnny for Strive.

[@oscriadocomandosancto2898]

I like him