Why Halo 2 is Already a REMAKE of Halo CE, Not a Sequel

[@specter_of_thestars2500]

I mean one bungie devs on the behind the scenes disc admit H2 is a retelling of CE for the arbiters POV, he learns halo is a weapon.

[@chavzone]

Retelling =/= remake

[@specter_of_thestars2500]

@@chavzone yeah, it’s still a sequel to me. But it’s got loads of CE callbacks which is nice, wished we had a few more levels on the ring.

[@briantoplessbar4685]

@@specter_of_thestars2500delta halo + regret are my favorite part

[@theanimeman97]

This is conflating the terms "sequel" and "remake" without differentiating between the two. I also think that with Halo being at the cusp of the advancing technological market of console gaming into the true modern era, Halo, and games generally made sequentially in that time can be noted to go through drastic changes from sequel to sequel as technology advanced with their ideas. Also, I think it's important to note that these are the exact same people that made the first Halo. That's pretty obvious, but it's important to note since that's a major reason why ideas from the first Halo ended up getting fleshed out in Halo 2. That's also why certain ideas ended up getting carried over, including gameplay flows and such. I can't agree with Halo 2 being a remake because it's such a bending of the definition to try to make note of the similarities between Halo 1 and Halo 2 that would, in most any case, be written off as aspects of being a sequel. Not to mention the fact that it thematically is most definitely a sequel, and Arbiter learning about the truth behind Halo was used to turn Elites into your allies eventually. It also makes the ending of the series more interesting because otherwise, humanity would basically have to commit genocide against the Covenant to win.

[@chavzone]

100% spot on analysis, love to see it

[@AdeneTzr]

what are you yapping about, it's a literal sequel it has a 2 IN IT

[@LonelyGamer4]

You just don’t have a high enough IQ to comprehend

[@theblueheart2662]

Standin on bidness

[@LaLiLuLe2]

Trying to milk content.

[@mmfood97]

Its just a take, no one’s saying its factual

[@AdeneTzr]

@@mmfood97 stupid take that is

[@first001]

Everything makes so much sense now. This is the highest IQ point anyone in the halo community has made in a long, long time.

[@BlatantThrowAway]

Reimagining is the better term.

[@MintberryCrunch.]

Never, ever, have I ever seen a take so outright confusing that I don't know whether to laugh at you for how ridiculous it is or applaud you for how brave and original it is.

[@mmfood97]

Its just a video. Chill

[@Banished420]

Halo 2 is not a remake. It is a sequel to Halo combat evolved. What the hell?

[@kleadron]

I'm not sure I agree 100% with Halo 2 being a remake of Halo CE, BUT I do see it as a reinterpretation of Halo at that point in time. With each successive game they got a chance to change stuff up to see what fits, and make it more aligned to their vision after the experience and new ideas from the previous game. I imagine H2's removed stencil shadows and dynamic lighting had a large influence on the art style, but I have no gauge on how far certain levels were developed when that was the focus. I do think it's interesting to point out the level similarities between the games, and it's especially interesting to compare areas that were the same (or same purpose) between the games. At the end of Quarantine Zone in H2 you get to see the H2 interpretation of CE's library. The gravemind's room also has similarities to the control room in CE (better viewed with freecam). Halo 3's installation 04 environment is also similar yet different to CE. Also, Halo 3: ODST being a spinoff of Halo 3 is another interesting comparison since it kept a majority of Halo 3's art but still has a unique identity.

[@limoneadeGlass]

That's exactly what I loved about Bungie and I wish it was an industry standard, revisiting scrapped/unimplemented stuff. They clearly weren't satisfied with how New Mombasa turned out in Halo 2, so when they had the opportunity to make a Halo 3 spin-off on much better hardware the revisited the city and it looks more like the Halo 2 E3 demo and how they envisioned it. How I would've loved, say Fallout 4, with Bethesda picking up everything from Fallout 3 AND New Vegas, instead of throwing everything out the window and starting from scratch (which they do with every single new game, see Starfield).

[@chavzone]

@@limoneadeGlass At least Bethesda games are moddable, I'd even go so far as to say that they wouldn't be doing half as well if they weren't

[@hguy4411]

i would argue the level design is pretty different between 1 and 2. there’s def similarities, but there’s a lot more “wave defense” encounters in halo 2, where you’re stuck in a small area having to fight lots of guys (who are all spawning around the same corners). halo 1 this rarely happens as you’re always moving through the level. makes halo 2 a grind-fest imo

[@JJO117]

Its Funny you Say this Halo 2 actually had a recap Scene from pillar of Autum leaving Reach and arriving on Installation 04. But yeah I think every Halo Sequel was basically a Remake of everygame but with new Aesthetics due to Technological Advancements.

[@chavzone]

Remaster: Exact same game in with newer graphics and audiovisuals. Designed as a direct upgrade (and often has terrible art direction). See: Halo CE-Anniversary Remake: A game that substantially modernizes the game engine, may make major changes to levels and gameplay, but retains the core story and characters. Designed as a more fleshed out version of a remaster that runs more smoothly and incorporates modern staples into the game. See: Resident Evil remakes Reboot: A fundamental reimagining of the game that retains very few similarities with the original. All that remains are some core characters and vague parallels with the gameplay and world aesthetic. See: Tomb Raider reboot Halo 2 is blatantly NONE OF THESE. The story is 100% sequential relative to Halo CE. Yes of course the revisit core themes of the first, because IT'S A GAME IN THE SAME FRANCHISE. Master Chief is present. So are the Covenant. There are Halo rings (the series is called "Halo", actually!). They do some stuff better than in the first game, and make improvements and expansions to gameplay, level design and worldbuilding that they hadn't gotten a chance to in the first. Okay, SO?!? This doesn't make it a REMAKE. Name me ONE SINGLE SEQUEL that doesn't have story and level design similarities to its predecessor. It would make NO SENSE to make a totally different game as a sequel. It is literally just taking the things that worked in the first game and making them better, in a new setting. Like, the level design WORKED in Halo 1, why would they not incorporate those elements into 2? Should they have added sprint and made John 117 swing from tree branches like Tarzan? The claim that Halo 2 is a reimagining of Halo 1 is just utterly nuts. So many elements of Halo 2's story just don't work without Halo 1, like the entire Arbiter arc would make absolutely zero sense, Earth being prepared for the Covenant, humanity knowing what the rings are, etc. Even ignoring that, it would be lunacy to go for a game that doesn't build on the gameplay mechanics and narrative tropes that you know worked very well in the first. How about a Metal Gear Solid game that isn't about stealth and tactical espionage in military bases? Or a Gears of War or Mass Effect game where the map isn't littered with chest-high walls? I'm sorry, I love this channel, but this has got to be the most forced, delusional take I have ever heard. By this logic, practically every single sequel in existence is a "remake" of the original. Every single Resident Evil game is fighting zombies in tight rooms, sometimes in different countries. Every Ace Combat is fighting planes in different parts of the sky. Every Dark Souls is about fighting big monsters in abandoned castles. That doesn't mean every game in the series is a remake. This is so ridiculous and contrived, the premise of this video only works the definition of "remake" is deliberately ignored to go do some mental gymnastics to pretend that anything with vaguely similar themes and levels to the original is a remake. This is so dumb it's actually giving me a headache. By the prophets, this is too much...

[@chavzone]

The only caveat I would make to this is Halo: CE acts as a "prequel" to the rest of the franchise, in terms of both narrative and design. But Halo 2 is in no way a remake. One could claim that Halo: CE is also a remake of ITSELF, because of the levels it recycles, and even spaces within it. Also, Considering everything in Halo 2 was made in such a short-timeframe, it would be insane NOT to use pieces of a world they had already created - ESPECIALLY when the story revolves around multiple rings existing, because it would also be thematically appropriate for these rings to bear similarities. Seriously, what sequels do not reference their predecessors? Who wouldn't want to design a sequel that makes fans go "oh yeah! I saw that before!". And what sequel would not want to improve on its previous instalment in terms of gameplay and level design? Halo is a slow-paced movement shooter, of course they're going to stick with level geometry that reflects that. Is "Crow's Nest" from Halo 3 also a remake of The Pillar of Autumn from CE and Cairo from 2??? The whole video basically boils down to "Halo 2 uses what was learnt from Halo 1 to make even better gameplay and levels. Because it borrows some locations and assets, there are inevitably some similarities". But that's not what a remake is, at all. There's a reason no one thinks Halo 2 isn't a remake of Halo 1. IT ISN'T. The core story and characters MASSIVELY change, Miranda and Arbiter are introduced, whose characters literally cannot exist without Keyes' death and the destruction of the first Halo. There's the prophets and their political machinations. The Brutes are introduced and we see factional infighting in the previously homogenous Covenant. Even the Flood gets "fleshed out", with the emergence of the Gravemind. But because the rings are similar, it's a remake? Absolutely mental. No, it isn't.

[@yethecollegedropout]

No…? Halo 2 is a direct consequence of what happened in Halo 1’s story. It can be an extension of some of Halo 1’s cut content but it certainly isn’t a remake of Halo 1

[@samtheweebo]

Dude is wrong. But his opinion and reasoning was interesting enough to watch. Sequals often revisit locations, ideas, theams, gameplay and stuff like that.

[@Temporary_Friend]

I'm going to watch the video to see exactly what your point is before I go deranged fan mode.

[@Hunterunt]

😏😟

[@Temporary_Friend]

@@Hunterunt I agreed with you in the end!

[@protocetid]

I hadn't noticed how many similarities there are between the two, nevertheless this is really twisting the term remake. In my decades of consuming Bungie's opinions and commentary on their games not once have I ever heard a single developer call this a remake. How many remakes have you seen come out on the same console as the original game? Remakes that change the plot still tell the same overall plot, they might add to it or make revisions. If they stray too much from the original work then it becomes a reboot or reimagining, and H2 obviously didn't restart the canon. You're also ignoring big plot threads that have no equivalent in H1 because you're too busy paying attention to a lot of surface level details and tropes Bungie probably resorted to because they were rushed yet again. When you look at the levels and the story that Bungie had in mind for H2, the games become even more dissimilar. H2 was meant to be the end to the series, in order to be the conclusion it has to be building upon a prequel. By the way have you seen Late Night Gaming's new video on H2's graphics? Hadn't noticed or considered that at least a portion of H2's visuals were incomplete, I'm surprised a Halo generalist found something so big and specific to H2 that apparently nobody else did.

[@Hunterunt]

Fair. I suppose that the term remake can be very ambiguous. I saw the plot threads of ways to "deepen" the story. Yea I saw the Late Night Gaming Video. It would have defiantly made Halo 2 much better. I still think it looks better than CE as is though. 👍👍👍

[@protocetid]

@@Hunterunt Sequels must share elements and tropes with their predecessors, or they risk becoming out of step with the series' identity. There are various levels that have naval spacecraft as a setting because it's a series that takes place in space and you're in the military. Forerunner and Covenant spacecraft levels being shaped similarly is likely Bungie staying faithful to the architecture it had established for those races in the previous game. In a large portion of Halo titles you land and explore in Forerunner installations because Forerunners and their creations play such a pivotal role in the lore. The games are named after the rings so developers are kind of forced to use them as a setting or at least feature them in some manner. Part of Halo's identity is instilling a sense wonder in the player by putting them in super advanced alien mega structures that have gone largely unexplored. I don't know where the Halo canon currently stands, but I imagine there will be future Halo games where you play as a person in the military, landing on artificial Forerunner worlds, possibly with your fellow troops. Be they actual worlds like H4's or the rest of the rings. The word remake can have some vagueness to it because it is sometimes used interchangeably with the word remaster, I'm happy that you didn't. Remake, remaster, reimagning aren't these strictly defined scientific terms so there is some inherent ambiguity and subjectivity. Even if I do like your definition for remaster, for me a remake entails overhauling the graphics to a significantly higher technological standard (1 or more console generations). And that's what Anniversary does to the visuals, even if the underlying gameplay and (non graphics) code is intact like it would be in a remaster. I'm sure that even if one was dead set on calling it a remaster, you still have to admit the graphics were remade. So the terms can actually be used on one piece of media without them conflicting too much depending on how exactly you define them or how lax you are about stretching definitions. It adds to the ambiguity. That doesn't explain every similarity, and I'm not a modder who can load up the levels of each game and compare their geometry. If it's true they share geometry then that's intriguing, I also don't remember a developer calling H2 a retelling of H1 like another commenter said but I guess it's possible. I don't know H2's development timeline in detail so I can only guess these can be explained by a rushed Bungie taking what they had already made, both brand new and old from H1, and taping it together to form a finished product. Bungie definitely wanted to try bold new things. Stuff that isn't even in the storyboards like Miranda blaming Chief for the death of her father, and betraying him by strapping a bomb onto his armor. You presented an unusual take with some kind of compelling arguments, those resemblances did have me thinking for a minute. I kind of like that you shared this, even if it had the smell of a logical fallacy I couldn't remember the name of. Found it, it's the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. Wasn't going to post a bigger wall of text but once I was more than halfway I didn't want my work to go to waste heh so sorry. Oh and I think that was just a clickbait title from LNG.

[@Recon_Ninja]

Can you link the original image from the title card at 0:29?

[@Hunterunt]

x.com/Hunteruntyt/status/1812987042281705972

[@mmfood97]

Great video. While i don’t think it is 100% full on remake, i do think Bungie was trying to make a definitive Halo game, meaning it was the only Halo game you ever had to play, so it was a retelling of the first game but bigger. It makes sense since they had no plans for a Halo 3 during development.

[@Foreign0817]

Spiritual reboots are the way. Like in Top Gun. And the Sequel Trilogy. That one probably had a little too much fan service, though, and played it too safe. There is nothing wrong with twists and turns.

[@gregorypendell9260]

Top Gun Maverick played it super safe too haha. It’s just a very different franchise than Star Wars.

[@FoxySpartan117]

I'm curious as to what you've smoked?

[@Endtimes4ahatter]

Great video and also great content from you, question, what is your favorite cut feature from Halo 2? And what makes it so special?

[@Hunterunt]

The Disintegrator was the coolest thing. A Covenant microwave flamethrower. I don’t know why it never made it into the games. It has a very cool unique visual design.

[@xRevolverServbot]

It is a reiteration of the first game's themes and content, provided in a different context for the Arbiter. Not a remake. Saying Halo 2 is a remake of Halo 1 is like saying MGS2 is a remake of MGS1.

[@TV-jf7nl]

Except MGS2 is both literally and figuratively a remake of MGS1, just as MGS1 is a remake of MG2. Bad example

[@xRevolverServbot]

@@TV-jf7nl no, there are narrative parallels between the two that reinforce the theme of memetics and the s3 plan, but you don't go fighting a tank on a base in the Alaskan wilderness for mgs2. A similarity intentionally placed for thematics is not the same as the developer preserving the contents of the original experience for a modern release. MGS2 is not "literally a remake" of 1, and this extends to 1's relationship with Metal Gear 2 for the MSX. Anything further is an argument of semantics.

[@TV-jf7nl]

@@xRevolverServbot “an argument of semantics” Turns out you can put words in any order you want

[@xRevolverServbot]

@@TV-jf7nl substantive reply

[@DigiDoggiVOD]

By this logic, Halo 3 is just a remake of Halo 2, which is a remake of Halo 1, so Halo 3 is a remake of Halo 1. Bro thought he was cooking....

[@Hunterunt]

I addressed that at da end

[@TheDuckGamer47]

Lowkey true, most Halo games hearken back to CE

[@XFerginatorX]

Interestingly, tho, some assets were reused in Halo 3, especially CE. Mainly near the end with the final mission you might notice a lot of the forerunner interior is copypasta with modern textures. Expectuslly when you are trying to run past the flood and sentinels to get to Johnsons warthog

[@buzinaocara]

The two games are very similar indeed. The focus on terminology such as "remake" "retelling" "remaster" "sequel" was unecessary and feeds off miopic semantic discussion as seen in 90% of the comments here. Regardlesss of technicalities, the overal argument is perfectly valid. Halo 2 is very much a more polished version of Halo 1, made by a bungie that had learned all the lessons about what works and what doesn't havin shipped the first game. That is not a rare thing in video game first sequels.

[@Monki_Lives_Again]

Halo 2 literally starts off with the arbiter being punished for halos destruction while chief is being praised for it .

[@AudibleFist]

H2 gets to copy the homework of CE a little cause both were about breaking the cycle of control The Covenant had, first was human perspective, then Elites weaved into it just enough so by the 3rd game they are working together to finally finish the fight.

[@teezzmegee972]

Hey ummm...have you ever considered joining in Ruby's halo 2 rebalance mod? I think the cut content you were able to recover would be extremely great for it :D

[@primusvsunicron1]

@Hunterunt I think Halo 3 is a remake of both Halo CE and Halo 2

[@lfesky]

Best take I've heard in a while, it is not HALO at all

[@chciken]

Halo 2

[@LonelyGamer4]

Halo 3

[@MeddlerPropagandist14]

Nuh uh

[@Videot78]

You 100% missed with this one brother

[@0lionheart]

This is a frustrating video, because I know what you're getting at, but it feels like you misunderstood your own findings. You could say Halo 2 is _almost_ a remake in how much it copies the structure and narrative themes of the original, and that's an interesting observation, but to call it a literal remake? That's just misunderstanding the concept. I you remove CE from existence, 2 doesn't make sense. If you remove 2 from existence, there's a huge skip between CE and 3. Ergo, the entire premise of the title (not a sequel) is fundementally wrong..

[@spartanq7781]

It is the same story but from a different far more interesting perspective but it also carries over what the first game set up...something Halo 3 failed to do for Halo 2. That's an entirely different discussion. Halo is a re contextualation but also a new story. So it isn't a remake. I get what you were getting at though.

[@Sabopool-li1wi]

Uh your h2 engineer tags files are unsafe for some reason if you can fix it it would be so helpful for my mod

[@Hunterunt]

Don’t know why it says that. I don’t have the og files anymore sorry.

[@Sabopool-li1wi]

@@Hunterunt oh ok thanks tho

[@thelasthallow]

wtf you talking about? the halo 2 we got is not a remake of CE as a natter of fact originally halo 2 was going to be even more different. there are plenty of dev blogs and videos detailing how bungie pretty much had to throw everything away and start over from scratch from how halo 2 was originally going to be.

[@ProjectFraz]

Uh.... no... its not a remake of ce. Thats like saying halo 3 is a remake of ce or 2. Or that resident evil 2 is a remake of resident evil 1.

[@thedoorfrome1m2]

Your line of thinking is flawed because all ideas are derivative. Your blatantly igorning all the differences between halo 1 and 2, direct sequels very commonly build off the previous titles to help flesh out unpolished ideas. This is like saying "Return of the jedi" is a remake of "A new hope" because the death star gets exploded.

[@adaml5166]

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it

[@Banished420]

Dude do you even know what you're talking about?

[@ProjectFraz]

No he doesn't. Most of his "points" would classify at least 90% of sequels as remakes instead of sequels.

[@sbplankton_1999]

This might be a Joke from bungie or Microsoft right?

[@makenziesholl]

huh?! Halo 2 is clearly a sequel. wtf is this man saying

[@Energy-skull117]

Halo 2 is legendary but my god ce is a million times better because i play halo to be immersed with my beloved green cyborg saving the world alone in huge and beautiful areas with mistery and action and all emotions ( i dont care about a alien civil war lmao) halo 2 is a downgrade in almost every single way...

[@theolastnameagain8697]

No. It’s called “halo 2”. That makes it a sequel. I’m not even gonna bother watching the video, because no point made could change that.

[@halinaqi2194]

k, imma watch the video and let u know if theres any "aha" moment lmao

[@halinaqi2194]

Basically the video just argues that bungie reused a lot of story beats and ideas for halo 2 but just remade it. But honestly sequels are expected to be similar to their predecessor, as in reusing stuff, but improving on it, which halo 2 had in some respects, especially its story. Nah, not worth your time.

[@theolastnameagain8697]

@@halinaqi2194 woah, that was really kind of you. Thank you for that. I hope others see this and just skip it lol.

[@reapermaster1453]

They Probably Copied The Story Because 90% Of Halo 2 Was Made In 9 Months (They Also Reverse Engineered Alot Of the Game)

[@JustinBallard117]

343 sucks and ruined halo, their games are cartoony and only little kids erds think otherwise. I miss when halo looked realistic and beautiful like call of duty and when it looked like classical paintings, not the cartoony crap we got like in halo wars 2, the anniversary halos, and halo fireteam raven for example. 😵😵‍💫😵‍💫

[@theyoboygamer3754]

bro what I'd argue halo 3 had a cartoony look to it

[@JustinBallard117]

@@theyoboygamer3754 no halo 3 is beautiful and is the most advanced looking game. Halo 3 will always stand the test of time and looks better than most games today!

[@theyoboygamer3754]

@@JustinBallard117 meh reach better

[@theyoboygamer3754]

@@JustinBallard117 also the most cartoony 343 game is infinite, and its the most accurate to the bungie era games

[@JustinBallard117]

@@theyoboygamer3754 right but wrong at the same time cause 1. Infinites armor suck imo and 2. halo was NEVER cartoony like how it was in infinite. Destiny is a great example of what halo used to look like, beautiful & realistic looking like call of duty and looked like classical artwork, none of that arcadey comicbook bull crap you see in any of 343s renditions of bungies stuff.