Why has no other RTS overcome StarCraft 2

[@EsportsStoryteller]

Check out Our new Project FGC Storyteller - www.youtube.com/@fgcstoryteller Check out my personal channels - www.youtube.com/@Gaming_Essays & www.youtube.com/@RTSCasts Timecodes: 00:00 Why no other RTS can beat SC2 00:42 RTS games budget 02:40 RTS audience 04:17 The perception about difficulty in RTS games

[@catra195]

Starcraft 2 art isnt good because they had tons of money or talented artists. They had SC1 to draw inspiration from who had the talented artists and much less money. In fact alot would argue every SC2 design was a step in the wrong direction

[@Barrelrollz]

​@@catra195 Especially in the xpacs after WoL, SC2's art seemed to fall victim to Warcraft-ization like Diablo 3 did. But not nearly as bad, and they still nailed the style in many ways, even if SC2 wasn't as grimdark and horror-inspired as SC1.

[@NoMoreCrumbs]

Pathing. No other game has pathing even half as good as SC2. I play AoE2 regularly and every unit in that game moves like an SC1 dragoon. It's hard to sell an RTS when the player does not feel in command of their own units

[@Jez4prez1]

SC2 is the best 'feeling' RTS game hands down. The speed, fluidity, ability to control units immediately, combined with excellent pathing, and once you learn the controls, excellent hot keying (to control so many things at once). The level of control and speed I can do things in SC2, I can't do in any other RTS. It makes other RTS's feel clunky and SLOW (my biggest gripe with most other RTS's, once you play SC2 for years, they just feel slow, I get much more enjoyment from just playing turn based strategy games instead that have immensely more depth etc). SC2 basically ruined most other RTS's for me.

[@Igor369]

AoE 2 HD and AoE 2 DE had different target audience to SC2.

[@kommisar.]

Perhaps "Stormgate" will improve on its pathing over the course of its patches. After all, it was developed by the same people that did the "Starcraft" games.

[@nikitosha1000]

There is a lot more to it actually

[@xenoaisam]

This! SC2 pathfinding is soo fluid!

[@saito853]

"RTS fans are mostly adults ranging between 20s and 40s" Yep seems about right for me "which means they have enough money to afford new games and paid DLCs" Nah man I'm always broke af 💀

[@lordlopikong6940]

Never understand this logic. They think kids just buy thier games back then? Or even now? They should be more consumer friendly because thier games are now brought by adults who know and aware on how they spends thier money. They can't just push a new dlc and expect the whole community to instantly buy it. The adults will scout the dlc first to check if thier money would be worth.

[@Y2B123]

@@lordlopikong6940Maybe your parents were more permissive with money in your youth. In my experience I am infinitely more comfortable (and quick) to spend 30 bucks on video games now than when I was little.

[@lilarrin1220]

I have plenty of money to buy new games but no time to play them, idk what work-life balance is anymore I've been on a spending freeze for new games ever since I noticed almost 2 years ago that my steam library is full of games that have been installed but never played

[@nbaumg]

another big reason: new RTS sequels compete with themselves. nearly every other kind of game has a shorter shelf life than competitive RTS games, but for RTS everyone is still playing and loving the last game. it takes a lot to get people to jump to the new one.

[@AlejandroGonzalez-ej4lp]

umm.... ¿starcraft Brodwar compites with starcraft 2?, i play both

[@Broockle]

nah I dun need to jump. I wanna play em all. 😆 Dun think I'll ever not have some limb in SC2.

[@DarkFoolJin]

I am 39 years old and almost none of my friends agree to join me in SC2 too :D

[@brianviktor8212]

I think the biggest issue is the lack of innovation. Stormgate looks like a new iteration of a Starcraft-like game. It's fact paced, micro-managing units is important, and strategy is of secondary importance. If you are attacked, every second you don't put your attention to it could be game-ending. I don't think the idea that how much APM you can muster is a good metric to measure how good a player is, or that it's a good game mechanic to have. Starcraft intentionally is fast paced... just look at the vision radius. It's basically attack range + a little. Scouting occurs by sending cheap units to the right place. Most things are basically this: Did you do your build order fast enough? Did you harass as you should be? Did you manage to not lose units due to lack of attention? Did you micro-manage your units well? Did you spread your creep, did you inject your larvae, did you spend mules, did you use chrono warp as you should? Did you manage to NOT accrue resources needlessly? If you do all of these things better you can go up to master. For those above you may also need to be smart about quick strategic thinking, although APM still matters.

[@nikitosha1000]

Take a good look at ZeroSpace. It has enough mechanics to offset snowbally nature of sc2 like RTS

[@RothenHQ]

Thank you for making this type of videos, i watch pretty much all of them. There arent a whole lot of people making this type of videos so im glad someone still does :)

[@EsportsStoryteller]

Thank you! :)

[@nonamenoname9352]

Giant grant games looked into this and found the problem was, 1. No one likes 1v1 multiplayer. 2. A GOOD campaign is critical for new players. 3. Co-op keeps people around. 4. A GOOD map editor is a necesity.

[@1wayroad935]

>No one likes 1v1 multiplayer The Fighting Game Community disagrees

[@geraldleuven169]

The main reason RTS games died out is the rise of MOBA's starting with DoA and later LoL. Controlling a single character is much faster to learn and because you play in a team there is no ladder anxiety.

[@Blundabus1337]

This. I hate it so much. I play MOBAs mostly cause my friends cant handle an RTS, but when I do, I miss the days of controlling armies and making military bases.

[@geraldleuven169]

​@@Blundabus1337 Yes and those games were often worthy of watching the replay as to see what your opponent did. MOBA's feel like fastfood games.

[@sylvainsanchis6036]

One word making the success of StarCraft series: Story. The best story ever

[@Blundabus1337]

*Glances at super saiyan kerrigan* y-yeah, sure. . .

[@pablovirus]

I think the worldbuilding aspect is miles better than the actual story tbh

[@chocobanana5262]

@@Blundabus1337 Still better than a more recent game like CoH3 with its recycled campaign from CoH2 and rebranded as CoH3 with rushe~ I mean minor additions. CoH3 should've been based on WW1 smh.

[@Blundabus1337]

@@chocobanana5262 Oh, yes. Starcraft 2 blows any game made today out of the water....but so does a lot of games from pre-2010.

[@ahuzel]

scbw story is so appealing, but im not touching that arcaic game again, not even with an stick.

[@CloudCuckooCountry]

When fans say “most people play RTS for the story and lore” the implication for major publishers is that being an RTS is actually a hindrance to a game’s success. That’s why Blizzard has said that if they continue the Starcraft series, the next game most likely won’t be an RTS. Blizzard has already set precedent with Warcraft that RTS series with rich and appealing stories and lore are more successful when the story and lore is instead given to a game outside of the RTS genre. No major publisher today is going to invest in a lore-heavy story-driven RTS when they could just put the same story and lore in a game that’s more likely to succeed financially. If RTS fans really want RTS to make a resurgence in the mainstream, they have to convince newcomers that RTS GAMEPLAY is fun and that it’s not just a vehicle for story and lore that could be served better in an RPG or something. And developers need to see that RTS gameplay is drawing people into the genre and retaining them. No this doesn’t necessarily mean we need to focus on multiplayer, but we need something to get people to keep coming back to RTSes specifically for the gameplay. Campaigns are good for drawing in new players, but we also need something to retain them after they’re finished with the campaign as well

[@davidmoak1219]

The lore of sc2 to mmo will be every woman gets harassed by incel blizzard employees and Kerrigan will be the stand in representing every woman employee and she will thus be treated like Meg on family guy. The dude that harassed Kerrigan the most will be given 130 million gold pieces as severance pay for a job well done making women feel unsafe in the gaming space both at work and at home. Hell yeah brother can't wait to see what Blizzard cooks up next! Riveting game development over there maaaaaaaaan. I just really love me some speculation on what a company will or won't do when they ostracize a large portion of the gaming community with the combined virginity of their employees and player base. Naw naw I'm being serious but also just salt venting. I get you and I agree. I'm on standby waiting to reverse engineer anything else that Blizzard makes StarCraft related so I don't have to give them another dime. Starcraft MMO private servers are on my menu and I'm waiting to dish up like a greedy lil cow. Blizzard needs to die, sink to the fucking bottom and get ate by all the bottom dwellers that support it. It and all other AAA companies churning out BS subscription play where you pay for a game and they can revoke it at anytime. Video games are like homes now. You buy it for full price, but you don't actually own it. It can be taken from you at any time.

[@Olagfigh]

Yes but RTS gameplay has to change drastically to be fun. Classic RTS games are competitive and that's stressful, not fun. In the 90s we were fighting mostly with Bot players, so we had more fun from playing the game but today it doesn't look like it anymore. If you take a newcomer, show him Starcraft 2 online match and ask "would you like to play this game with me?" answer will be "no". Why? Because new player will have to spent X hours on learning builds, controls, hotkeys, some tricks, units etc. A lot of effort for a small reward.

[@CloudCuckooCountry]

@@Olagfigh My question is then why are people wanting an RTS resurgence if they think classic RTS gameplay isn’t fun or needs to be made totally different for it to be fun?

[@Broockle]

have you tried to follow a story playing WoW? Worst story telling medium ever.

[@Olagfigh]

@@CloudCuckooCountry How many people want such game? 5% of players overall? Less than that? It's all about games popularity and RTS have very low player bases for a long time now. Kids in my family won't even try to play any RTS. It's too hard and too boring for them. My generation (I am 32 years old) played some but my friends didn't like Starcraft 1 or 2, because again, both are too hard. So even when I was young and beautiful I had to play alone. My friends prefered Age of Empires 2 or Counter Strike. Age of Empires 2 only because nostalgia

[@spokoman23]

I'm a bit older. I played sc1 and sc2. Got to Daimond top 8 before there was a GM rank. So not the very top, but also not the bottom. I introduced sc2 to my son at the age of 10. He liked it, but not so much that he'd spend hours playing it. He's 12 now and wants to try again. I think the only reason he wants to is because I like it and still watch it. So we can play together. What's annoying to me in sc2 is that if I look away from my army for 2 seconds and Terran stims my whole army just melted, or half of my base. Sc1 was slower and I enjoyed that more. Stormgate... IDK, looks too cartoonish.

[@00x0xx]

"What's annoying to me in sc2 is that if I look away from my army for 2 seconds and Terran stims my whole army just melted" This is what makes SC2 a better tournament game than SC1. It forces players to scout and fear the opposing military, no matter the size or tech advantage/disadvantage. It allows SC2 to be a game of strategic positioning, where outwitting your opponent matters than just a game where macro/management ability determine the outcome.

[@spokoman23]

@@00x0xx that's a good point. Than stamina becomes a factor, to win a LAN tournament to have to be able to do all those things in many, many games. That take crazy focus. For watching it's very cool. As a player, that's too much. 1 small mistake can cost you a game, not just stim, say P doesn't block the door for 2 seconds and cracklings flood comes in

[@deni4l164]

14 years old . . I remember when I was impatiently waiting the release of sc2. I feel old now.

[@UR-1000U]

🥲

[@IvanBuyavets]

Появился видос в рекомендациях, тема интересная решил посмотреть. Ноунейм канал. Слушаю голос, слушаю акцент - думаю где-то я его уже слышал. Посмотрел - а это Бассет. Я рад, что ты и в эту сторону пробуешь снимать контент. Ты классный. Продолжай и всё получится) Спасибо за видос)

[@iuliancapdefer2563]

Because starcraft is the GOAT of rts

[@Blundabus1337]

Starcraft or starcraft 2? Starcraft 1 has so many flaws that earlier RTS games didn't. 12 unit selection caps, units not attacking due to sprite limits, ramp pathing. . . I'd take Red Alert 2 any day of the week.

[@MrTBSC]

@@Blundabus1337 red alert had its own clear flaws and still has with remastered ... go play red alert remastered then check openRA ... the QoL and balance additions of the latter make it immediately MUCH more playable ... the only downside of OpenRA is that it has no ladder ...

[@Blundabus1337]

@@MrTBSC Talking red alert 2 compared to Starcraft 1, red alert 1 is freaking ancient. ...and yet it still doesnt have a unit limit, rofl!

[@MrTBSC]

@@Blundabus1337 yea and? a number of RTS games even new ones have a unit limit not necessarily for technological reasons ... the original Red 2 is still clunky to control (Red 1 even more so), you can only expand your base with buildings next to each other having to form a line to the next orefield and baracks as well as weapon factories act as production multiplier instead of being their own entity .. conyards by default can not be redeployed and getting a new MCV is very expensive making overall expansion and mapcontrol difficult ...

[@Galacsia]

​@@Blundabus1337perhaps they weren't flaws if they looked at earlier games and still decided that the game should be like that

[@Blundabus1337]

As someone who's been playing RTS since CnC95 and been to tournaments, one I've won, I have a few counterpoints. Firstly, technically, League of Legends, DOTA, and other MOBAs have surpassed Starcraft in popularity. You might claim they're not true RTS games, but they came from a RTS game mode. They're basically a simplified version of standard RTS games like starcraft. League is to Starcraft as CoD is to Old School Quake. Secondly, Starcraft isnt the hardest game in the universe. You just have a lot of people who turn the game into a job(esport players) who give the illusion that it's really difficult. You don't need 900 APM to play starcraft, ever. Yes I've seen the league vs starcraft video, but look closely, the guy in the starcraft video is padding his APM by selecting and reselecting his gather units/structures.(please know I dont like league and I do like starcraft) Third, Starcraft 2s popularity is based on three factors. Blizzard back when blizzard was good making the game, it's legacy from it's prequel, and the korean scene. Korea puts the game on a pedestal and inflates it's popularity. Take away that, take away it's prequel, and starcraft 2 wont be nearly as popular as it is now. Might still be the most popular traditional RTS because good blizzard is GOOD, but it won't have as much of a reputation.

[@snowdrop9810]

the best contenders against sc2 are SC:BW, WC3, AOE2, early C&C series games, etc. which is sad seeing how only the older games have managed to do the Genre justice.

[@chocobanana5262]

SC2 has the best online network experience for an RTS IMO. Regardless if they're playing Coop or rank matchmaking, the game uses Blizzard dedicated server that are really good compared to other RTS. This is only probably possible because they can afford the network infrastructure to host dedicated servers 24/7. I play from Singapore vs those in the US or even vs Korean players and I barely feel any delays even with 150-200ms ping. Most competitive RTS uses P2P like AoE4 and CoH3 and end up with VERY noticeable delays even if you play on the same region the moment you're matched with players outside your country. It's also why EU and US SC2 pro players can still play big tournaments in other regions because the delays they have isn't downright unplayable and that's for a game that's micro intensive. Also SC1 and SC2 have decent and unrushed storyline because they spanned for years not to mention it's a complete storyline. There's no waiting for what's about to happen next. Other RTS "story" campaign are left unfinished and unfulfilling because they want players to comeback on their sequel if it does happen which usually never does leaving sort of a bad taste to players that love good storylines in their games. Starcraft 2 also supports mods and map creation to its player base and even allows those mods/maps to be played on the Blizzard dedicated servers for free once it's approved and uploaded for better gaming experience. TLDR: Company has money for online dedicated servers. Finished and completed storyline/campaign. For an inhouse game engine, game graphics still looks better than most of the competition currently in the market right now.

[@golamyo]

U mean sc1bw. Best rts ever.

[@ragragrec1]

Stormgate looks like a game made in 2000. I cant believe they are ex-sc2 developers behind this studio. Quite sad.

[@MrTBSC]

yea you are the exact spoiled kind of player the video just talked about .. the game doesn't even have its 1.0 release ... and you shit all over it ... frankly how would any dev be capable to satisfy YOUR kind ... "oh shitty old veteran devs that don't have the million dollarbacking of my favorite game .. fuck em!!!"

[@ka124as]

What makes StarCraft so good is that there are so many ways to win. Every game is different, strategies come and go and come back, can’t win based on mass units alone

[@itchin4scratches]

the devs refined the code for 20 years, its simple but it can happen again but not soon in this big business monetized game era, whats its name infernals vs vangaurd needs massive time before release or flop

[@abstractdaddy1384]

I've always liked brood war more than SC2. The graphics, sound design, and campaign are much better, and as a spectator esport it's not even close. SC2 has always been quite boring to watch but I love watching brood war.

[@yaboityler2617]

Brood War is a better watch with its darker asthetic and grittier tone. But SC2 is infinitely smoother to play. The pathing, collision and unit responses are just better for players.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

@@yaboityler2617 I understand that sentiment but it never bothered me. When you consider that anyone you're playing against is working with the same limitations it ends up not mattering. I guess for some reason it could just innately bother a person to not have auto mining, infinite unit selection, multi building selection, and super smooth unit pathing, but idk the game is the game and when you're playing brood war you certainly feel like you are playing an RTS despite it's "limitations", so once again I'm not sure why it should matter.

[@Grindshot]

Dedicated servers are one of the biggest reason SC2 has the best online gaming for an RTS. I'm playing from SEA so I'm forced to connect and play on US servers but get 150-200ms ping but I don't feel like I'm having any delays. There's a reason why SC2 players across different regions around the globe can host tournaments *online* with $100,000-$500,000 prize pool for a 14 year old game. because the game is just very playable on the pro level even just playing at online. Blizzard dedicated servers connection are just world wide and accessible which is something I can't say to other RTS and most rely on just old school peer-to-peer because it's cheaper. I've played other RTS like CoH or AOE and experienced delays the moment I'm matched up against someone outside my country. Meanwhile I'm playing SC2 from someone half-way across the globe and I don't have any noticeable delay. Unfortunately if the news is true even Stormgate will not have dedicated servers, it's precisely why they're trying to implement Rollback netcode into their game which is a peer-to-peer netcode for fighting games. Regional dedicated servers are always the best solution for RTS but are just expensive. Blizzard has money and global infrastructure that other RTS developers just don't have. Game also supports mods and map creation tool which is a plus.

[@domiiiniiic]

I play SC2 on GeForce Now and its great! No need for a gaming PC 🎉

[@atifarshad7624]

I think the RTS genre is kind of in the same spot as the Quake/UT-style arena shooters. They are both perceived as too hardcore and punishing and thus lost momentum against the games which are perceived as more forgiving (CoD style games over Quake-likes and MOBAs over traditional RTS games). Also doesn't help that RTS game controls don't translate well to anything except kb&m. This means less people are going to play them and thus less incentive for big studios to pursue developing them. No big publisher is willing to take the risk and the smaller indie studios just don't have the budget to compete on equal footing. When SC2's development started (sometime around 2005), RTS genre was still strong and thus had good funding for its development and support. Whose going to spend that much on an RTS today.

[@MrTBSC]

... god do i hate epic for not finishing UT4 and yea ... i am actually that guy that wants WASD for screenscrolling in a RTS as i hate mousedragging i am afraid it's more a matter of wait and see with one indy getting a supricesuccess with their rts at least i am a bit hopeful with tempest and DORF ... none of them will dethrone SC2, nor do they have to .. i personally just care that they are good and get a big enough playerbase for at least some sustain

[@Barrelrollz]

Because aside from AoE4 (which is doing pretty well), there hasn't been much competition released in the RTS genre, let alone the sci-fi RTS genre. Stormgate and ZeroSpace are the first two larger games I've seen gunning for StarCraft's position, and they're not even out yet. Shout out to Tempest Rising which also looks badass and seems a little more under the radar!

[@Cryogenius333]

Tempest Rising looks bad. Not because it isn't fun, ive only played the demo, but because it is SO derivative of C&C that I would be SHOCKED if it makes it past development without eating a lawsuit from EA. All they did was make the crystals red. Seriously, the Gold colored "good guy" faction is called the "Global Protection Initiative" or something. Like...really? That aside, the units blend together and it's too fast. I'm watching tentatively but I genuinely don't see it winning fans over.

[@bmdfragile]

I’m 39, not that bright gamer. Been playing StarCraft 1 on lan with friends, sim city style. Played sc2 since the start, pvp only. I just like how the games are never the same, some can be very short and some can be intense etc. Only had this feeling with the quake series. Games like warzone and apex are just too either FotM loadout based or combine the perfect classes and just own the server. I don’t like that.

[@nightmareTomek]

The problem SC2 has isn't that it's hard, but that it's punishing. There are too many units that can sneak or charge into the mineralline and instantly win the game. It's reactionary rather than strategic. In addition to that everybody just plays meta and it's about building a blob of units and then winning the fight. SC1 Broodwar is more about securing parts of the map, and the builds still change, that's why it's still so popular and even many pro players went back from SC2 to SC1.

[@Cryogenius333]

No, the problem with SC 2 isn't that isn't punishing. The problem with it is right there in your review. Your entire critique of the game is MO focused. When these RTS games were first made, they were made for casual gamers who got sucked into a cool story, smooth mechanics, interesting lore, and well written characters. The problem is the players, chief, not the game. You want more more more online, and games designed to cater to you lack a lot of the design philosophy that goes into making a fun, clean RTS. The pacing considerations are different, the unit design, the balance, the map/level design...honestly YOU guys are part of whats ruining the genre.

[@Cryogenius333]

MP*

[@nightmareTomek]

@@Cryogenius333 Honestly you guys are the reason crappy games with potential don't ever improve. You suck up crap and then defend it. You don't address the criticism, you attack it. I mean, the whole SC2 community that after so many years still hasn't left the game is like this. Childish. I am gonna play different MP games, which are more fun. Beyond all reason makes up for what SC2 lacks. SC1 is still damn exciting to watch, unlike SC2 where all the games look the same. This shows how your rant is only an attack and has nothing of substance. SC2 can rot.

[@nightmareTomek]

@@Cryogenius333 oooh and don't bother responding. I won't be reading not even another word of this immature nonsense that's meant to attack more than discuss.

[@stambe8605]

Brood War says "Hello" :)

[@Olagfigh]

There is a RTS that overcome Starcraft 2. It's called Starcraft 1 :P About question "why" I think it's because of two reasons: 1. Hardcore and comptetitive games are stressful. New generation prefer to have a simply fun from the game instead of learning builds and training fast clicking just to be some bronze tier player. Old generation (we) for some reason enjoy such games, but even us usually switches to MOBa games - much easier to play and enjoy than classic RTS. 2. I have played many RTS games in my life, started with Warcraft 2 and ended with Godsworn. When I look at Stormgate or ZeroSpace I see "another Starcraft 2 clone" and that's enough for me to not play it. I know what it is about, it's about a clickfest and repeating same moves over and over again to master it with a tiny bit of strategy. Believe me, it's exactly the same what Warcraft 2 had to offer and it was in 1996. Something really new and interesting, like Northgard, happens once in 20 years. Godsworn is also something new, it's like mix of Northgard and Age of Empires. These two games are the titles I would like to play, but not Stormgate/Starcraft 3.

[@Broockle]

SCBW as an ESport is unique. It's difficult AF. Even Pros make mistakes all the time, it's great to watch, but I'll prbly never play it again myself. SC2 on the other hand, I dun care for 1v1 there either but I love coop, I love arcade maps like ZergHex, and I wish there was more of a team focus somehow. Stormgate is exciting to me since they will have their 4 equal pillar philosophy, 1v1, 3v3, coop, and campaigns. I will likely hardly play 1v1 Stormgate at all, but I'll prbly enjoy watching it, 3v3 I have high hopes for and coop I hope will be better than SC2, it's got so much potential I think. It's also exciting how they're adopting mechanics from mobas, it will be very SC2 like but a lot more accessible, and playable with friends. That's really what I look forward to. ZeroSpace I don't really care at the moment since all they're making is a 1v1 focused game. And yes Northgard is pretty awesome. Just sad there's no coop or campaign, it's all pvp, gotta find friends that care about it which is hard 😆

[@Olagfigh]

@@Broockle I got your point and true, Stormgate has some coop potential, maybe it will be fun :) They could go fully in coop game, cause there is enough 1vs1 RTS games already. Northgard has Conquest mode and that is some kind of 2 players coop campaign. It's awesome, you have to try it! Imo is far better than SC2 coop missions

[@Broockle]

@@Olagfigh o dang that's massive praise. Apparently didn't play NG since 2019, I do have 50 hours on it though but I imagine it was entirely playing 1v1 against a friend. I never bought any of the DLC.

[@Olagfigh]

@@Broockle I have little almost 300 hours (probably more than my time with SC2, lol) and I only played maybe 10 games against real people in 2vs2 and 3vs3. Played only once 1vs1 and didn't like it. But I have finished 5 times Conquest mini-campaign with my fiancee and that was very fun. Conquest missions are very diverse and after each you can choose a bonus for the clan you play. It should be playable even in basic game, without dlc. It was added to the game for free.

[@Broockle]

​ @Olagfigh I just downloaded it again, replayed the first 2 story mode missions. I was wrong, my 50 hours were prbly mostly playing campaign 😅 I also tried a custom game and a Conquest. I kinda fail to spot the difference between them. The conquest mode doesn't seem to have match making which is a bit sad. I didn't try pvp since I'd prbly just get rekt anyway. I find it quite difficult to compare NG to SCBW, SC2, WC3, Tiberium Wars, RA3, SupCom ect. It feels more like a real-timey version of civilizations or HoMaM. Stellaris is the most similar game I can think of. It's real time, you expand into neighboring territory, each territory has features to exploit and connections to neighboring fields, it's real time, not turn based, you climb a tech tree constantly, and the games are around 2 hours long. Tho that last one is the biggest difference, Stellaris rounds can take weeks 😅 I think you can finish a game in 8 hours. NG feels like a microcosm version of Stellaris. Which is actually great for me, I think Stellaris takes too long. I prbly have thousands of hours on SC2 over the past 14 years. Not to mention the amount I watch pro games on youtube.

[@dustinseth1]

SC2 is like smash bros melee or heroes of might and magic 3. It’s one of those near perfect games that will be fun forever.

[@BigTimeZergRush]

5:57 Age of empires Online tried to focus on multi player co-op and missions/events, it flopped so hard with a lot of backlash around not having PvP or making it hard to unlock PvP, and many other reasons as well

[@NewGrow-kb1bg]

StarCraft 2 success was highly mediated by StarCraft 1 success. But many StarCraft 1 players are now 50 years old and gaming moves faster each year. I think it’s just been too long without capstone games for the genre to recover.

[@___SourR34___]

3:00 but the graphs show that console also has a smaller market share over time

[@peicheng1973]

Starcraft2 didn*t even overcome Broodwar iIMHO.

[@svsv1191]

Not even close

[@tyler_7977]

I'm also 27 years old. Honestly in general I don't like to try many new games, I like playing my old favorites - SC2, overwatch, etc. Also with SC2, there is so much comfort and familiarity, yet I'm still trying to grind the ladder just like I was in HS. I remember I had a friend beg me to play it with him in HS, and so I did. I played it a ton for a year, got burnt out, but then have played it on and off over the years, and ol' staple. There is something so satisfying to improving you're raw skills in SC2 and climbing the ladder.

[@marte1587]

Started on SC1 back in the days. Was incredible to play and first matches online was brutal with my friends. Then I abandoned, I don't care too much about singleplayer, but found sc2 single and co-op was great. RTS today should focus not on live services, but instead on a single player and co-op experience over the top, with DLCs releases over time (paradox games anyone ?), not competitive pvp ladder stuff. My 2 cents

[@pencilswordfish]

It's the tightness of control, responsiveness and just general engine quality. I tried so many RTS in the last decade since SC2 and I hate the HARD FACT that none of them have come close to an OLD game like SC2. Everything else feels clunky. It's sad for the genre that none have come close to that bar.

[@Cryogenius333]

This a big one. Making it a good RTS isn't necessarily hard, but it can be mechanically challenging. The key things that always flub for me are pacing, responsiveness, and over design. RTS right now are either trying to completely reinvent the wheel or are so blatantly derivative its disconcerting. There aren't a lot of skilled RTS builders and devs still in the business and if there are they're not flexing the muscle. Alot of new devs over design the games with weird, clunky gimmicks that are a major turn off, or focus too hard on making it MP specific.

[@lucasreiYT]

sc2 make a cinematic go goose bumpy.

[@justincronkright5025]

I'd say Age of Empires in a way has, it's just because it has been based on older code that has to get adapted which consistently causes problems. AoE III has my love-hate going on with it due to people saying 'NO... there is no Shift-Click bug (i.e. your shift-click OFTEN causes your unit to do thing you just shift-clicked - rather than finishing its task & *THEN* going to the shift-clicked task) or with the lack of balance/QoL updates (AoE II is a patch/1.5-2 months), AoE III is over 4 now. But AoE II, when I get back to playing it is... really a treat beyond Starcraft I'd argue. It just has so much versatility leading to creativity, whilst also being relatively stable. It's absolutely not perfect, but I always feel EVEN a small modicum of hope each patch that it will fit/sit even better this time 'round.

[@Cryogenius333]

My biggest biggest biggest issue with AoE is the aesthetic. Given technology restraints it's acceptable but it always ruined the immersion for me. And my biggest gripe, ongoing, is their continuance of it despite technology now being of a psr to escape it. Why, playing as...say, Japan, you have SOME buildings that are culture specific(Your castle looks like Himeji), the rest are generalized(Asian, greco, ME), and your units are all thr exact same. It was always super weird for me to be playing as a given faction, again, say Japan, and having British longbowman, Scottish Two handed swordsmen, HRE esque Knights, etc. And the issue was for me it felt weird and hodgepodge. Like...all or none. Either everything is generic or everything is specialized. Don't sprinkle the cultural aesthetics like olives on a pizza

[@imie6567]

Are those new RTS add Day/night time change of units behaviour? That would be interesting, that skirmish game changes during round. At this mechanics, players should trim their strategies to local changes of day/night conditions. For example: Hydras decreases it's range at night, but lings are getting more aggressive. At night dark templar are slightly more visible to get 10% damage and other units fire range are shorter...Whatever. That would be a nice mechanic add-on :) Does enyone knows such a mod for SC@?

[@svsv1191]

Korea would not be still playing broodwar if starcraft 2 was better than broodwar

[@windwindy5356]

Dude, it's only in Korea because it's already built into their culture, the world already moves on from that game and don't even give a damn. Just because it's popular in Korea doesn't mean it's a good game, terrible control and pathing just suck. Koreans still play it but the other 8bil people don't for those reason.

[@jiayojames]

There's a reason all these ex blizzard guys have split into different studios and several new RTS games are all coming out at once: Blizzard is not actively developing SC2 any more. I don't think SC2 will just disappear, but I also don't think it will remain dominant in the new era. One of the upcoming games with an active dev team will be more popular going forward, even if it doesn't surpass the global phenomenon SC2 was at its peak. My money is on Stormgate, though we have yet to really see the contender from David Kim and Uncapped Games. In any case the new gen of RTS have one major thing going for them which is that they wont carry the same reputation of elitism that puts so many players off from even giving SC a try.

[@philtess3126]

I think the big factor that pushes people away from RTS is the macro part of them. Most people like microing their army around, killing stuff and strategizing about attack angles, but most people can't keep up macroing at the same time. Maybe if a game could automize that part (you would pre-establish game plans and could select which one you would like to run during the loading screen). At any point you can interrupt your units to react to the opponent, but I guess this would lower the skill base required making the game less frustrating for the majority. I also believe people would understand the game better if they had to establish a real game plan instead of winging it every game.

[@theSleepyLamp]

That's not necessarily true. I think a lot of people do enjoy macroing. It's kind of why games like Frostpunk are relatively successful. However, macroing with the added stress of needing to micro...now that's difficult for new players.

[@philtess3126]

@@theSleepyLamp you can't deny that the big fantasy of controlling an army is controlling the troops, and watching them murder stuff, not putting drones on minerals and ordering you troops/generating creep/injecting. I'm not saying we should get rid of that, but I'm sure there is a way to reduce the apm requirements without losing its complexity. Instead of worrying about queuing up things in order, I'd rather focus on how to counter my opponent and information warfare

[@Boris-Vasiliev]

I hate microing my army in SC2. Why does every unit has an active ability, that I have to use manually? And those abilities are inaccessible when I select a group of different units. I need different groups for sentries, stalkers, templars, disruptors just to able to cast their spells. Its not fun when most of my time goes for a single manual order to a single unit in a group of 40 with different abilities. Sometimes even moving my army from one place to another is a problem: observers or medivacs fly forward and die before ground army can reach the same spot. I think alot of these tasks should be done by unit AI, not manually.

[@kommisar.]

@@Boris-Vasiliev I've yet to hear any suggestions on how to improve the controls in "SC2". How is the AI supposed to know how far you want your Observer to move in relation to the army without you telling it to? They already have things like your unit automatically attacking an enemy unit, and non-attack units moving away when an enemy attacks them. You may want to examine your hotkeys and how you use control groups. Take a lesson or two from the pros who are able to micro huge armies full of several different units and spellcasters. There's a reason they're able to do it. Yes, it's difficult and frustrating, but that's part of the challenge of the game.

[@kommisar.]

I believe "SC2" took care of a lot of that by having your workers automatically mine (provided you set the rally point), the ability to make new units move wherever you want them to and the ability to make a bunch of units through control groups and hotkeys without looking the screen. Contrast this with "SC1" where each worker had to be told to mine after it popped out and you couldn't place multiple buildings on a single control group. Even the pros have to queue up units because of this.

[@lordj3rd44]

Have you tried BAR? (Beyond All Reason) Its definitely more team based and social, in early development and a promising future.

[@MrTBSC]

ok i definitively agree with you that BAR is a more focused teamplay game .. which is good BUT (and i only speak for myself) for me who enjoys games like Supreme Commander and Planetary Annihilation i cannot enjoy BAR whatever it exactly is, the economic/macro implementation of that game compared to the aforementioned doesn't seem to allow building many different factories and as such effectively have the entire unitpool be used but only a very select few types despite of what it is offering ...

[@a1b3do]

Can someone explain to me why Games Workshop hasn't taken over the RTS genre? I'm only vaguely familiar with the Warhammer 40k universe but they already fund a huge number of projects, video games, animation, TV shows, they have a pre-existing audience who spend $$$ on complicated strategy games, they have the lore, established factions, dark sci-fi aesthetic. Literally the only company for whom it makes sense to invest big into this genre.

[@Dee7nine]

Dawn of War 3 Killed their RTS Push. It was hot garbage compared to DOW1 and DOW2

[@Blundabus1337]

DoW 1 was solid, not better than starcraft 2 but solid. DoW 2 tried to appeal to the moba crowd, it was... ok? Wasnt a very traditional RTS. DoW 3 tried to appeal to the esport gurl gamur frat boy crowd.... and was a dumpster fire cause of it. TL;DR GW hasnt taken over the RTS genre because GW cares too much about money not making quality content. GW also likes to shoot themselves in the foot a lot, Warhammer Total War 3 was on it's way to be the next big thing, then the company got too greedy and political.

[@C2a3u7a9]

@@Blundabus1337 DoW 2 is more in line with Company of Heroes (same developer) than MOBA

[@MrTBSC]

@@Dee7nine DoW 3 was not a GW issue ... it was an issue with sega

[@MrTBSC]

GW is about the tabletop games .. not the videogames as they are merely giving the license to whoever has any interest in doing something with it .. DOW 1 back in the day was pretty damn good, DOW 2 is solid despite some people criticizing it for lack of basebuilding then you have Total War Warhammer fantasy 1 and 2 being very solid entries to the general strategy genre the question though is in what way should WH 40k take the RTS scene? by merely copying starcraft when that originally was meant to be a WH40k game? sounds pretty cheap now don't you think? lets see what the third person actiongame spacemarine 2 will bring in terms of WH40K popularity ...

[@nealwilson8741]

its called broodwar

[@snowman4261]

"I love War" Selection

[@TetrisPimp]

SC2 Engine + Controls is what makes it the 🐐

[@Vognee]

Surely you mean StarCraft (1), right?

[@michaelhawkes6492]

If I had to guess.... probably that Blizzard spent nearly 20 years making it. And Korea exists.

[@mattlongpre]

Zero space and Stormgate LOOK good, but I'm not seeing that kind of Crunch that the Starcraft 2 combat has. Units feel like they have huge health pools and damage dealt is too slow to be on par with starcraft 2.

[@TheGreatgan]

RTS need to evolve into new genre, the last "RTS-eques" game i played was from total war series.. strategy game that had some resemblance of RTS. Cus, one of the problem with classic RTS was its micro-command, needing to input one command every second require year's of training and that exhausting. I think, RTS can benefit's from much more complex automation command.. say setting the factory n its worker to certain parameters, if resources were this much, create this, if more than this threshold create this. Better ai n control for troops behavior, and so on.. lessen the load of commander on second to second basis. So more strategy n less fast-hand skill.. With the computer power we had today, we can essentially create a very2 huge map, simulating a urbanwarfare for example, for much better coop campaign experience..

[@TheGreatgan]

I played RTS since the original CnC up until starcraft 2, where i just gave up playing multiplayer on sc2. Online multiplayer matched up in sc2simply insane, i have not played rts for 5+ years at that time n the required skill for continuous clicking is too hard to grind.. learning curves is just too steep. So i just finish the single player n then stop playing RTS until now. Jumped ship to shooter, moba n strategy like total war.. So i do think, if RTS solved this hundred of command a minute problem, RTS can evolved into a good game

[@lekl3k669]

Bro, the only rts game that can dethrone SC2 is SC3.

[@MrTBSC]

this could be true .. to which i think any new RTS game shouldn't even have the goal to try and dethrone SC ... just be a good RTS/Game and people seriously need to temper their expectations and just learn to enjoy games by themselves instead of constantly comparing them to the best of the best ...

[@tonydwietwarze]

We really need starcraft 3 ..... I will buy it on the Spot

[@BuddyWudzyn]

I really think it was a failure to capitalize on the SC2 engine and map editor to begin with. Like you mentioned its basically impossible than any RTS will ever have so much funding in the future, so even storm gate would need more budget just to match the engine alone. If stormgate could have been made in the SC2 map editor and sold as its own client with just a licensing fee... I think it would look and play way better. There really is no need to make any RTS game in anything other than the SC2 editor, at least for another decade, of course thats not an option because the SC2 editor doesnt have a buisness model like Unreal

[@MrTBSC]

i think you missed the modding fiasco then with SC arcade .. actiblizz back then because of the popularity of defense of the ancients and LoL announced a clause that any created content within the editor would belong to them ... not the creators ... and unless they backpaddled on that you can imagine how motivated people would be to create anything on that now ...

[@danielaliff5622]

We need new starcraft campaign game

[@frosecold]

I though there could never be a game like broodwar, and I was right, Starcraft 2 is different and IMHO better. I don't think this phenomenon would happen again, but I hope I'm wrong

[@MrTBSC]

"a new RTS game that tries to resurrect the genre should be of immense quality" ... yeaaa no pressure on the devs ... at all and yea i can very much underline how toxic "fans" of ANY particular game are ... like don't DARE to explain them what you like better in a different game to their chosen avatargame ...

[@MrRenatopepin]

I don't care. I'm sinking with the ship. Sometimes i take a vacation but i know myself enough to know i'm always coming back. Be wc3 or sc2. I've played a shit ton of those community games all my life and i can say with certainty: quality lasts! SC2, BW, WC3, TF2, SF3... there is a reason for people longing with those.

[@CultOfMonika]

Microsoft just needs to rehire or pay the old team to make a SC3

[@MrTBSC]

MS is currently on a path of laying off any devteam that doesn't manage to get them significant cash after them making their big 70 billion acquisition of actiblizz ... you think they gonna now bring blizz veterans back for a RTS game of all things? ... nope not a chance ... they gonna milk that CoD cash till its a wasteland .. and i fear for Devs like obsidian and inXile or IPs such as Battletech/Mechwarrior ... or indeed Wasteland .. oh and fallout

[@loltrope3266]

Why no one talk about immortal gate?

[@WernerShadow]

I think the other reason RTS is falling off its considered a nerdy game, and these days, it's trendy to be a moron

[@woomoort7327]

Хах, гм зерг печалится, что никто не хочет присоедениться к нему в ск XD

[@GeriatricSmash]

Name an RTS made after SC2 that wasn't AoE4. There. There is your answer.

[@joeygrape4672]

Although i am gen z i grew up with command and conquer kanes' wrath and it would have been the only competition for sc2 but ea ruined it

[@augustcederberg5904]

Hearts of Iron is not a 4X lmao, not even close. 4X is something like civ, the only real-time 4X that I know off is Stellaris. Hearts of Iron is Grand Strategy, which is essentially just tile-based RTS. I suggest you check out the Commands Mod tournament for HOI4, it's cool.

[@daPawlak]

As far as shitting on other games Brood War fans are by far the masters

[@Galacsia]

For what is worth, sc2 players are the same with every other game that isn't bw lol

[@daPawlak]

@@Galacsia perhaps, maybe I just see the bw stuff more cos I watch artosis a lot

[@EnigmaHood]

MOBAs kind of destroyed the RTS genre. Also RTS games don't lend themselves well to consoles using gamepads as a control method. With that said, I've mostly only ever played Blizzard RTS games anyway. And I think most Starcraft fans have as well. If Blizzard were to make a Starcraft 3, the fans would buy it. It's like Mario games. The platforming genre doesn't need to be popular for Mario to be popular, if Nintendo makes a new Mario game, the fans will buy it irrespective of whether platforming games are a popular genre or not.

[@PhantomHarlock78]

The new games also lacks a good lore. And this reflect not only in a weak single player, but weak unit design.

[@AITD17]

Maybe market share as a percentage is decreasing , but the number of players is increasing, you should read such statictics well. It is the mobile games that has huge impact on such charts, but this is a completely separate player target. So I disagree with your statement. PC holds strong 😅

[@MrTBSC]

SC2 has a legacy with broodwar, for the casual side the campaign has blown everything before it out of the water the fact that competitively the game has 3 very distinct factions that not only vary in their unitpool toolkit but also in the way how they build bases AND generally play as well whether one is about swarming and quick expansion, one about sieging or another about stealth, mobility and high quality units. also no rts EVER has garnered national popularity as broodwar did in south korea ... at the very least it was never reported and i'm gonna be honest ... i do not enjoy playing starcraft 2 or brood war i'm more of a command and conquer/act of war player, i enjoy games like total annihilation or supreme commander and occasionally age of empires or age of mythology what's the main difference? MOST of these are somewhat slower and have an average higher playtime per 1v1 match, their factions are not as varied and likely most importantly the solo campaign may have not been interesting enough ... competitively none of these games gained high national or international popularity ... their playerbases are significantly smaller ... Brood War back then simply was a very good game ... and you could say it had quite an amount of luck with its popularity in south korea which gave it an additional boost overall ... bring in the fact that its sequel had a budget rivaling that of summerblockbustermovies ... i mean there could have gone a lot of things wrong with the sequel ... but it didn't ... instead it took the scene by storm and gained a level of support your average RTS between 2000 and 2010 could have only dreamed of, and rts games during those years weren't a rarity ...

[@bwzarchive708]

I dont think Stormgates gonna come even close personally... It looks so stiff and the designs arent really unique or inspiring

[@Kyranth]

>uploaded 10h ago >PC market share graph ends 2021 You need more updated graphs, mate. PC market share has been exploding since 2021. So much, that even Playstation is putting their exclusives on PC now. Additionally, look for one that doesn't incorporate mobile games into the market share. They are completely different markets and completely irrelevant for RTS.

[@EMDRONES]

Kids have no attention spans now

[@davidm2031]

What are you talking about! Our attention spans are.......hey you see that new Mr. Beast video?

[@davidmoak1219]

Holy shit a squirrel did you fuckers see that

[@ixirion]

I think the biggest issue is the coolness factor. Terrans are cowboys in space, toss are paladin magicians, zergs are swarm predators. the animation is perfect - you can see and imagine the real unit. the game takes itself serious... lore, consistency, incredible voice acting at the end its just cool looking at Stormgate... it just is not cool enough for me. Animations are big turn off. every game have demons so they are nothing special. compare the feel and look on WC3 inferno with stormagate demons... that said I rly hope SG have a good start

[@lordlopikong6940]

For me it's theme. Storm gate has a bad and visually unappealing theme

[@MrTBSC]

starcraft is a copy of warhammer 40k themes terran = imperium of mankind spacemarines and imperial guard protoss = primaly eldar with a Tau appearance zerg = tyranids if you want other sources you could say zerg = bugs/xenomorphs terran = starship troopers/colonial marines protoss = really the only thing i can think of from older media would be space elves (which the aforementioned eldar are) ... maybe yautja but those have no magic

[@theSleepyLamp]

Starcraft 2 came out at a time where the stars aligned. Interest in the genre is high due to pop culture. You have Halo, which is humans vs aliens vs bugs. There's also aliens and predators. Gears of war popped off. And then of course, there's 40k. I think the Starcraft art team have a strong grasp on where to take the art direction, especially building off of starcraft 1. Stormgate, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have a clear idea of what they want the game to look like, at the moment. It kinda want to go sci-fi, but also wants to go fantasy. It wants to be kinda serious, but also cartoony.

[@MrTBSC]

@@theSleepyLamp a different iteration of WH 40k with clearer visuals instead of going for grim dark edgy aesthetic

[@cariyaputta]

The problem with RTS or any competitive game for the matter is free units. They're extremely hard if not impossible to balance. The only sensible approach that I see handle well free units is in Warcraft 3 where summoned units can be easily dispelled and killing them gain XP for the heroes. In games where there's no such hero mechanics, free units like swarm hosts in SC2 or pandas in Auto Chess are just plain stupid.

[@freeman8990]

most rts fail because they try to outstarcraft starcraft

[@Michiho.]

what the game title that is showed in kzbin.info/www/bejne/imPUgJqYYtVnbaM ?

[@Michiho.]

RTS is not popular nowdays, nowdays kids wants easy to control game, and i guess nowdays it didnt make much money with such small fan group which most is adult now and have less time to play.

[@davidas5049]

cuz its the best game evah! ZERG UBER ALLES!

[@doncsimester6723]

Sc2 is not the best, just the most flashy and most competitive, so the esport is watched by many people. It's the most popular.

[@RothenHQ]

i mean balances wise i'd consider it the best. Also Engine wise, coop, competetive, ladder and simple. SC2 isnt really flashy? no idea what you are one about. Have you played sc2 before?

[@EsportsStoryteller]

What RTS games do you think look & feel better?

[@godsu]

Starcraft2 isnt even better then Brood War 😂

[@windwindy5356]

Let's be honest, as a game, SC2 is 1000x times better to play. BW control is a chore and badly outdated, there is a reason why BW has no new blood. If you try introducing SC1 to any new gamer, it is highly they would drop it in a few minutes because of the terrible control and pathing, these are just unacceptable in 2024. However, if you look at both game from competition aspect, then SC1 is definitely better because SC2 is still a pile of mess that David Kim left behind, the balance is completely screwed beyond repair after 10 years.

[@HenriqueRJchiki]

StarCraft 2 was the epitome of competitive 1v1 rts which is what the genre is about. Modern RTS all pander to zoomer Fortnite kids with 5 APM who can't think for themselves so most just ended up becoming city builders instead.

[@MrTBSC]

no RTS is not about 1v1 ... ANY game can be played competitively, ANY game can be played 1v1 this is not what defines RTS, neither APM .. and all you do is throwing an ad hominem at a different audience

[@HenriqueRJchiki]

@@MrTBSC it is about 1v1, every relevant rts tournament and ladder 1v1 and everything else is a clown fiesta for little kids, this is a fact. If you can't play 1v1, you're bad period.

[@MrTBSC]

@@HenriqueRJchiki sure thing kid

[@HenriqueRJchiki]

@@MrTBSC Cope and seethe about being bad it won't change reality little kid with 5 APM, sad person.

[@MrTBSC]

@@HenriqueRJchiki whatever boy, keep being delusional

[@iorifori91]

"Lost Technology" on steam is better than boomer starcraft

[@THAC0MANIC]

da fuck drugs you taking to this for SC2 oh yeah the hype currently behind it

[@ghregoryk4830]

total war arena 💪

[@Dantick09]

I don’t need casuals in my RTS, get good or get wrecked by canon rush

[@MedicJR]

Honestly I hope stormgate never succeeds compared to Sc2

[@didymussumydid9726]

Me too, but why?

[@mojusticeomar]

Wth why? We need more RTS and better ones. BLIZZARD is dead, can't count on SC3 or WC3. Need more companies to step up

[@ka124as]

Won’t happen. That game looks like shit

[@thenguyen5396]

I'm a sc2 fan but this is a fuckning toxic mindset, get over your nostalgia

[@Starcraft2fans]

It will not , did you try the game

[@lazaroskordas4397]

Starcraft is dogpudding, the fact that it's the most successful rts shows how brainfucked the rts community is.

[@Galacsia]

The fat that you think that shows that you're a fucking idiot

[@Jimmyni-kk4em]

Sc2 is too hard for casual

[@DB-bx7fm]

wtf, sc2 will never beat sc1 or aoe2

[@donshep2305]

Sc2 dead. All hopes for Tempest Rising.

[@roky2822]

Yes? Try playing it it finds a match in like 2 seconds.

[@bsiah9073]

Stormgate is a rubbish game with no substance and any originality. Hence, it will never succeed like all the good games out there. The only reason it was kinda holding up and kinda somewhat popular is due to the money that the developers had had spent on marketing like paying and hiring e-sport players to hype and advertise it. They sponser players to partake tournaments that were held and sponsored by them. Just speak with those current e-sport players that are playing in stormgate tournaments offline, majority of not everyone wouldn't even want to bother playing this sh** if they didn't get paid for it. Just look at how many KZbinrs/e-sport players are even talking about it now? Most of them only made a one time video for that trash game because the developers couldn't pay everyone. Otherwise, they need a salary cut which would suck for them lol.

[@davidmoak1219]

That's how I feel about Helldivers 2. That shit is boring as fuck after an hour it's same shit as left 4 dead. Those games are for no brainers who don't need much goin on in their game. heard forever from everyone on my friends list how great HD2 is and man what a waste of money. Gorgeous game, boring as FUCK gameplay. Never seen so much goin on in a game while still maintaining an ability to be boring. It's for people that like guns and explosions and just about nothing else. That only tickles certain IQ levels. Gunfire Reborn is more fun than that shit and I get bored with that game too.

[@Franpowah]

For me the biggest quality of SC2 is the crisp UI and responsiveness in gameplay. Pretty much every other RTS feels sluggish and shitty. Stormgate has a chance in that regard, considering who are making it.

[@Broockle]

I have the same situation, I love SC2 but almost none of my friends want to play 😆 Coop is great, so are some arcade maps like ZergHex or Direct Strike. I want Stormgate to deliver on its promise to give us a 3v3 mode, I have such high hopes for it. Other than for watching E-Sports I actually super don't care about 1v1 anymore 😅

[@OHOHOHCOME]

What is hard about cracking 3v3? Couldn’t you have done that in SC2?

[@Broockle]

@@OHOHOHCOME There was no push for it. SC2 followed BW's success with the 1v1 formula and just improved the heck out of that. But now we see how much easier it is for communities to form and grow in team based games with mobas and hero shooters. RTS can adapt this I think and do the same.

[@Lanzetsu]

I think the RTS games by default are not really appealing to today audiences, that is fact if you check for how game tendencies has been evolving the last decade. However one thing that set apart SC2 is the Lore, the Story, the World we know... the gameplay on the campaign... soooo many things combined even before the ESport Scene hits really left a mark on our hearts and souls. I've been playing other RTS and it really doesn't get the same feeling, some try to get there but fails somehow, specially because as you said people compare them with StarCraft 2 and they can't match that colossal game. It also is something really familiar and people don't want to invest a lot of time and effort on a hard RTS game from a new IP that doesn't have appealing elements from the start when they know SC2 and they can jump instantly and is still so alive, with a pro competitive scene and soooo many things to do... Even I was wondering why was I playing CrossFire Legion at some point when I have StarCraft2 but I kind of liked the game, and also GreyGoo, but they have no people to really play online a lot and casually, and they are not as balanced as to invest so much time for nothing... with no pro players or big communities to relate... at least that is what I think. I don't fully like Stormgate yet, the gameplay seems okish, but I will wait for the release and check the Story Mode, if the Story hooks me with interesting characters and plot then I have a reason to keep playing the game and their races, and invest time on the online vs others, but if that isn't the case then... it will be just a try.

[@Olagfigh]

You have to be too young, but ESport Scene was born with Starcraft 1. When Blizzard was making Starcraft 2 they were focused mostly on ESport part of it. So ESport Scene already left a mark on that game before it even came out.

[@Broockle]

There just hasn't been a good RTS in forever, and the good ones from the past are nigh impossible to play. Activision and EA really don't take care of their IPs at all. They just kill em after a few years. SC2 just had really dedicated people that inspite of activision kept the lights on. Now gamers grew up playing mobas and survival games. A new RTS would need to shift a few things to feel familar to today's player base. Also making team play a focus is huge since that's what people are used to now too with mobas and hero shooters. I think Stormgate has the best philosophy out of all games. I can't say I care about Zerospace at all since they seem to be making a 1v1 focused game which.. eh

[@welshy3289]

For me, the reason it won't be dethroned is because of it's pace and 'could lose your army in a second if not looking'. It adds a lot of focus and stress. I get it's not for everyone, and I am not a quick player (100apm if I can be arsed) but that's not the point.. I love what is possible, and that rage/joy feeling you get almost every game is something I don't get with any other game. Stormgate feels like it's pandering to an audience that doesn't exist, like the other new ones. I am staggered that nobody has basically cloned SC2 to freshen it up a bit tbh. Not every game has to be a billion dollar cash cow, which is what Microsoft said when they bought Blizzard. Maybe not in my lifetime, but I have hope an RTS will come out by the fans, for the fans

[@kommisar.]

I know nothing about "Stormgate", and to me it just looks like a hybrid of "SC" and "Warcraft".