Why Has Serve and Volley Died Out?

Tennis in this modern age is widely considered a more base line game, it revolves around endurance, tenacity and patience, constructing a point by drawing the opponent out of position to allow for the opportunity to hit and easy percentage play winner. However, grinding your opponent down at the base line is not the only strategy utilised within the game, not used often enough in my opinion, net play can be just as useful, if not a better game style and strategy to win points quickly. The serve and volley is a dying form so they say, a style most often used on grass courts due to the higher speed of the courts and yet even at Wimbledon we still see a lack of this play style.
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[@atarumoroboshi75]

In 2003 ATP had the "splendid" idea of ​​shamefully slowing down all surfaces: serve & volley disappeared because it was no longer effective on these very slow courts of today. In practice they have destoyed the most beautiful sport in the world, leaving only baseline sharpeners as "specialists"...

[@jayteegamble]

I hated watching serve and volley in the 90s and always cheered for the baseliners. Now when i watch those old matches on youtube i love the serve and volley guys because it's so refreshing.

[@atarumoroboshi75]

The wonderful thing about this sport was that my friend, you had the opportunity to choose who to support!! Now it's just pure boredom...

[@jonmcclane7433]

Same!

[@astrahcat1212]

Cliches are annoying, exactly, reminds me of hollywood soundtracks, one or two 'epic' LOTR-like soundtracks used to be nice, but now it's 25 years of it and pretty sick of it.

[@erikrichardgregory]

Hell of interesting research. Back in the 80s with serve and volleyers like McEnroe (and later Becker, Edberg, Sampras, etc.) beginning to dominate the game, it really appeared as though serve and volley was “the future” of tennis. I could not explain their sudden absence from the game until I saw this video. Well researched, well done. Bravo.

[@tyrone-tydavis5858]

Serve and volley has died out for 3 reasons (in the mens game) … every type of court surface has been slowed down, even grass....they use rye now. Secondly, the string used today allows for incredibly high spin rates which bring the ball either at the volleyers feet or enable passing shots around your opponent where the ball is outside the line and ultimately come back in the court. Add a few top spin lobs to that and coming in to the net on a regular basis, where your opponent knows you're going to be, makes you a sitting duck. Each tournament uses a different type of ball. Men's tournaments now use a ball that is similar to a clay court ball.... Softer and slower.

[@jay7tennis]

You’ve got my subscription off of this vid! I love playing the net, it just forces me to think quicker and react faster.

[@zt29.]

Please do more of this you will be a great tennis youtuber in the future calling it here first.

[@FootFaultTennis]

Thank you. Working on a video to come out today or tomorrow, I try to release one once a week!

[@PaDutchRunner]

The dramatic shift of the game is stunning. Never would have guessed this would happen.

[@anacap007]

I think there could be a temporary resurgence in this type of play style if the trend of return of serve 15 feet behind the baseline continues. More player like Medvedev is adopting Rafa's return strategy to either take full swings or increase their return percentage. Like everything else, once an exploit is uncovered a new weakness will present itself. In the case of deep return positions will be the return of serve and volley. The re-appearance of the drop shot is another example.

[@FootFaultTennis]

aka Carlos Alcaraz 😎

[@miguelbarahona6636]

Exactly what Djokovic did yesterday vs Medvedev at the USOpen final. 22 times serve and volley, and won 20.

[@peterbedford2610]

Great thumbnail of the guy least likely to volley

[@1hander173]

How do you only have 10 subscribers you should have a least 5k. Great Video

[@SolicitorPirate]

I started learning how to play tennis in the early/mid 2000s, and always tried to be a dedicated serve and volley player. Was real wild and kinda discouraging to see the style essentially die out in the years that followed

[@FootFaultTennis]

It's sad to see for sure. I'm not a dedicated serve and volleyer, but I do like to use it fairly regularly

[@letsgofuckingcrazy]

I started playing in the end of 80s so I was a big fan of SV players. I still do a lot more of volleying compared to other players. On an amateur level it still works but I cannot rely on it the whole match. As you well said, it's predicable and topspin increases the difficulty of volleying. Unless you're a super talented volley master like McEnroe, you'll need another strategy from the baseline. If you play mostly on clay, you're doomed.

[@atarumoroboshi75]

We should write to the Tour and demand the old fast surfaces...et voila' the S&V again :)

[@tahiti4208]

Great video!

[@VocalBeast]

Great vid man! Happy to have found your channel:)

[@General4474]

thanks for all the stats and data on that. On the pro tour yes it died a lot. On the rec level you can easily win using serve n volley typically. But you can use it all the time or the opponent will catch on. Also I find it very tiring to keep doing. But it is fun though. I could maybe see it coming back on the tour a bit as Roger Fedora brought it back. It makes sense from the standpoint of shortening each point to shorten the match and preserve your body. Like 3 hits to win compared to as many as 70 hits when your focus is on the data that's a massive amount less hits to win a point. And thus prolonging a career id suspect

[@zt29.]

Amazing video found you from TTT

[@peterbedford2610]

successful passing shots are the rule, not the exception, nowadays. The first to the net is more than likely to be the loser.

[@terrymcclure303]

Interesting that he didn’t mention that Wimbledon slowed the balls and court specifically for Murray

[@nocode61]

Everyone knows that serve & volley disappeared because the tour slowed the surface and balls on purpose in the early 2000s - It is well documented. The question is why. I recall the tour saw "big servers" was making the game uninteresting, which was true at that time. But this change resulted in decimating natural serve and volleyers as well. For someone like me, tennis today is more boring to spectate because everyone relies on the same strategy. What makes a sport great is a "matchup." Lacking this variety, tennis became way too predictable for my taste. There are reasons why top players today win way more GS than their previous generations. If the game was as homogenized as today, Lendle would have won 20+ GS including Wimby.

[@atarumoroboshi75]

That's exactly what I've been saying for years. ATP decided to slow down the courts because the serves were too dominant (there were approximately double number of aces compared to today) and baseline rallies were increasingly rare, especially on fast surfaces such as hard court or very fast AND IRREGULAR ones such as grass. Maybe the tour started from the right idea but they should have slowed them down less, maybe a cross between those of today and the 90s. Even if the hypothesis that I liked best was that of giving just one service ball . :) In any case it's incredible that such a huge mistake has not yet been corrected!!

[@astrahcat1212]

True, agree completely.

[@johnsonchen7127]

As serve and volleyer myself, another reason serve and volley die down in my oppinion will be less people know ho to volley and develop ability to do "low volley" and prediction 2nd after first volley. The skill need to develop fairly young age or you would not be comfortable and confidence to use it in later game. and coach now were grow up mostly as gound stroker, so, less good volleyer are in current coach market. i agree with racket is effecting serve and volley but federrer has demo the volley and serve and volley is crucial as key stretegy to grap the chance to approach and press your apponent to shorten or winning the fame if you will.

[@joshuasingyard5617]

No courts were slowed down as the clay court and slower court players didn't want to attend Wimbledon and therefore the only way to attract them was to slow down the courts. When Nadal won the 3008 Wimbledon he was coming to the net frequently, in 2019 he was finishing most points at the baseline.

[@maartijff144]

Exactly and now we also have very one sided tennis.

[@michaelgarza8271]

@@maartijff144 It sucks. It's a tragedy.

[@superbtennis24]

Rafa’s still playing over 1000 years later.. that is extraordinary to say the least.

[@tomsd8656]

By 2002, Wimbledon had slowed down. Layton Hewitt won 2002. Federer did not play serve volley all the time to win his first winbledon in 2003. Phillipousis was the last serve volleyer to make Wimbledon final, and he lost to Federer who didn't play the same way he did Sampras in 2001.

[@alkathorat2859]

Well clay court got faster and serve and volley player still won nothing baseliners dominating since dawn of the time although Peter sampras serve and volley baseline player.

[@wookiedude21]

I think “Approach and volley” would be the more realistic philosophy these days. A pure “Serve and Volley” approach with today’s surfaces and strings and shot variety Of the opponent seems to limit the viability of that game plan.

[@maartijff144]

No not just due to the rackets but also because they have slow courts now. That is why players like Edberg wouldn´t be inside the top 100 today. Even the grass of wimbledon was changed and by this they changed history and the tradition of a beautiful tournament. Lendl could have won wimbledon multiple times in his days whith these slow courts.

[@Nill757]

Yes exactly. The point being that every player not doing S&V is not necessarily a baseline player, a Medvedev.

[@razgriz1ne1ne48]

I don't fully buy the "They slowed the courts" idea being as big a factor, the reason they did it was cause raquet technology and stroke technique was allowing for bigger shots, serves hit by the average big server today at Wimbledon still reach the baseline at the same average speeds as the mid 80s/90s, i think main issue now is that serve n volleyers.... serve too big. With the combination of raquet and string tech, its easy for a player to just flick a wrist and just let the power of the serve be redirected and controlled and take the time away from the serve n volleyer, its why Roddick was never a good serve n volleyer, he served too big too often when he attempt it and lot of times when the opponent got a solid return off him, he'd still be behind the service line. I think if Serve n volley was to make a comeback its gonna come from someone that tries to maximize the spin potential of serves and be consistent laser accurate, basically a more extreme version of Federers serve. They have that ideal "Fast enough to make the opponent flinch but slow enough to give me time to get to net" serve speed and be able to hit extreme short angles with so much slice the ball basically makes a L, they could master the Under arm serve to where it bounces back into net, or even someone masters the reverse slider.

[@Nill757]

@@razgriz1ne1ne48 Not sure why it has to be complicated, reinvented. What Federer does works on these courts. Dominated the entire game in his prime w it. Spot serve in the 125 mph range, w good single 1st step balanced recovery coming out of the serve to save time. Perfect split step timing, perfect short drop volley for way back returners, perfect smash (backhand too), perfect short return drive w unique get out of the way of the ball footwork. SnV needs all those tools w an hour of practice dedicated to it w a coach. Nobody on the tour wants to do that. Right now in the game, all new players want to sit on the baseline and hit big power. Expensive ball machines w grunts. Take a look at the last two 38 yo Fed encounters w baseline Medvedev. Took him apart. Re Roddick, yea he served to hot, but see his own comments to Fed: “as you know, I don’t like to volley”. WTH? He was a lame volleyer for top 5 player. Nowhere close to Sampras, Edberg.

[@razgriz1ne1ne48]

@@Nill757 see, 125 is right at that too fast speed, I was thinking 97, or 109 at most, against great returners like Djokovic even if you hit a dime with a 125 serve, they can get the ball back on your feet before you even finish the serve motion, plus adding new types of serves would add doubt to the returner of what and where you're serving.

[@LinusFeynstein]

Thanks for the informative video. There is at least one other great video on this very topic, one about the dying out of SV in Wimbledon. I would appreciate more data, especially on the non human factors rackets, strings, balls and court. So, are there precise data on ball circumference, felt, air pressure and ball weight? Are there data on the change of grass in Wimbledon. I think it was changed twice, once in 2001 and later in 2005. Correct or complete here, please. Since when are those topspin enhancing Polymere strings being applied? What about the bounce height on different surfaces? Which surface change were done in Melbourne and New York and which year had the fastest court (2021 was very fast). I appreciate modern tennis and prefer to watch base line over SV tennis. I also think that most top twenty players in the era of the Big Three (2003 til 2020) would have been very competitive and contenders for big titles in the eighties and nineties. Let’s not forget the human factor. Today’s pros ave grown up with modern topspin tennis and super fast power shots. They are are very athletic and fit. The average player today is also taller today. Most players today can hit serves over 200 km/h or 120 mph. In the eighties you had very few and in the nineties we had some great specialists. I don’t buy the argument that in the nineties, the serves were better. Imagine Tsonga, Berdych, Isner, Anderson, Monfils and other no-slammers against Becker on grass. Being a huge Becker fan, I dare say, it would be very very tough for Becker. Or imagine Ferrer, Davidenko, Soderling on clay vs Wilander, Muster, Bruguera etc. So, I think modern material AND modern athleticism and technical skills favour base line tennis.

[@atarumoroboshi75]

Personally I would delete the golden Wimbledon plaques from the last 19 years...at most I'd put them in silver with asterisk (*) "won on clay". What a shame...

[@vanlendl1]

It is amazing, how fast the balls were in the 90s.

[@cometcal2]

The "approach and volley" shot, when kept low, forces their opponent to rush the shot, hit a more difficult return, or lob.

[@stuartalexander5094]

well said. Agree 100%

[@gaelprigent2700]

😢😢😢 Le service volée me manque c'était beau à voir ! Que du spectacle !

[@adamfrary6227]

I understand you’re an up and coming KZbin channel, but I would check out the video “Why Did Serve and Volley Die Out At Wimbledon” by Ed Stradling to see what an even more ideal presentation of this topic could’ve been. Love the content though. Glad to see channels like you in addition to CULT Tennis on KZbin :)

[@FootFaultTennis]

Thanks, any feedback is appreciated, I try to improve something with each video I put out.

[@miguelbarahona6636]

November 2021, Djokovic defeats Medvedev, in Paris final, doing serve and volley 22 times and winning 19. Good news.

[@chevy4x466]

As a child in the 70-80s, serve and volley is easier even if u weren’t a great atheletes. Watching high school tennis is see juicy baseline shots easy to get to. Unless u r at the elite levels, serve and volley just an easier way to win

[@donkeykong516]

With new rackets & it’s fast pace, coming to net is suicide

[@z1az285]

higher bouncing grass courts, polyester strings that make the ball dip. So basically serve + volley has been replaced by serve + groundstroke. But Wimbledon still plays fast enough in week 1 if it rains. Wimbledon is NOT slower however rye grass is higher bouncing and the balls are larger and heavier.

[@rayestaran]

The analysis is quite accurate, but, imo, there is factor usually disregarded: in slowed down courts, most players feel that volley is not an asset anymore, they only need a great serve and forehand. The result is a surprisingly low quality volley for most players, including top. They even neglect attacking after damaging shots. However, in Wimbledon, year after year some unexpected S&V players get to advanced rounds (M Zverev, Dustin Brown, that guy from Luxembourg whose name I can’t remember…). I think that it means that S&V is still a weapon there. The problem is that there are no GOOD serve&volleyers, because in any other tournaments players don’t see the benefit. It is a matter of effort vs benefit… What do you think?

[@FootFaultTennis]

I think that's a good point. What's the worth in working on and training a good volley when you don't see its value anywhere but one tournament all year? I think its value has been seen a little more in the last few years however. Hopefully, someone as versatile as Alcaraz can popularize it again?

[@bugynites09]

The stats still are on the side of getting to and finishing at the net. I believe if kids learn about the S&V at a young age many would love it. Most teachers are not even programming the approach and volley.

[@miguelbarahona6636]

USOpen 2023. Again, Djokovic vs Medvedev. Nole did 22 serves and volleys, and won 20. Serve and volley shouldn´t die.

[@bugynites09]

The serve and volley has not died out, tennis has.

[@Dan1elAndrade]

@Frazzox Nah, just serve and volley.

[@rt0935]

The nerve of putting Nadal on the miniature when he´s one of the best volleyers out there. Flawed video from the start.

[@user-vp5iy8ec9q]

old days 3 grass courts slams , rye grass slow down ball, guess watchers want more rallies and theyve got it now, change the grass, ground, techs and balls etc. = changing difference goat

[@michaelgarza8271]

Slowing down the game has been a total catastrophe, especially at Wimbledon.

[@gendale9992]

Game was never faster than now brother

[@michaelgarza8271]

@@gendale9992 I'm not talking about pace of shot. The game was "faster" when grass courts and other courts were fast in the sense of the balls staying low. I prefer the old game that involved much more variety. It was great to see a puncher vs. counter puncher type of match. The raquets have a whole lot to do with it. And I enjoyed some quick points as well. Preferences.

[@alkathorat2859]

​@@michaelgarza8271 Well there are plenty of fast indoor court tournament. Today's game have much more variety literally current clay is faster than some of hard courts. People moan about grass court slowing down i can literally complain abou clay court getting faster.

[@tsc6454]

Tennis allowed racquet technology and court speed to kill the sport.....and lead to the rise of Pickleball. People still love serve and volley but the ball comes back far too fast to allow for it to be a regular strategy. The only prayer for tennis is to roll back the racquets size and materials......it will never happen and tennis will continue to die. It's been very sad to watch the game I love implode

[@matthewkirkhart2401]

I think easily 85% of the cause is racket technology. Sure, at the beginning when they changed the felt on the balls and the composition of the grass on the courts, that had some effect, but now? Nah. It's racket technology and string technology primarily. This is what changed the way people approached the game. And it's not all about the server. I was taught to play tennis in the 70s and the serve and volley "recipe" was serve, three steps in, land with feet shoulder width apart INSIDE the service line, and make your first volley from that point with those sharp angles available to you. If you watch the serve and volleyers up until the mid 90s, this is what they did. There is NO way that is happening now. The racket and string changes have produced a situation where the serve is harder and faster, which gives the server less time to get to the service line, the returner is able to hit a harder and far more accurate return, which also gives the server less time to get to the service line, so even if the serve and volleyer manages to get a first volley off, they are so far back in their own court that their angle has been greatly reduced which takes away their advantage and actually gives it to the returner. Even if the returner doesn't hit a heavy topspin dipping return so that the volley has to be made when the ball is well below the net, it doesn't much matter because the angle available to the serve and volleyer is not that much different than if they were on the baseline hitting the shot. This really robs the serve and volleyer of their advantage. Most of the time the serve and volleyer ends up being nothing more than a target for the returner to hit a passing shot unless the serve is very good. Now, this does not eliminate the "approach and volley" players, like Federer. But the "serve and volley" players? I doubt we will ever see them again. And this is such a loss in my opinion.

[@niceguy1774]

I'm not going to watch, but "MuH surfacEs SpeedZ n RacKet Tech tHo!" ammirite?

[@osbourneburnett184]

Great video. To make tennis popular as it was in the 70s,80s and 90s fast court tennis tournaments should return. In my opinion the Wimbledon authorities slowed down the courts too much. It’s very sad, because most players play at the back of the court. I watched tennis during the Borg, McEnroe and Connors era, and believe me tennis was so exciting to watch then. But also there is a lack of personalities in the game and i miss the controversial players of the past. I hope this topic of one dimensional play comes to the forefront of tennis, because believe me, non tennis sports fan no longer tennis as they used to. 😔😔😔

[@aaronaragon7838]

70s tennis fan here...different body types and diverse personalities back then. Small guys like Rosewall and Solomon could compete. Today's players bodies changed with racket and string tech...nobody in the mens top 40 is under six feet tall.

[@solidcricket]

Soon wimbledon will be played on clay considering how slow it is already in 2021 🤧🤧🤧

[@s0459054]

I read a quote from Pete Sampras who thought he couldn't see S&V coming back - because it takes a lot of time (and initial failure) to perfect this skill and it could hinder a young player's ability to rise through the ranks; it might be easier to play a more grinding style of tennis. That and, of course, all the changes you mentioned like the technology and slowing down court speed which may have been necessary at the time but I believe there's been an over-correction. I've talked to people from my uncle's generation who said it was awful watching two S&V players play in the 80s and 90s but I find Nadal and Djokovic matches for example boring and predictable as well. Hopefully Pete's wrong about this and the pendulum can swing back and there can be more tactical variety in the top players including more use of S&V.

[@scachan331]

Some of the most matches I've seen were between 2 S&V players like Sampras vs Becker or Becker vs Edberg

[@jayteegamble]

Give it a look for yourself and see if your uncle is right: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pH3Jf4t-g61oeJY

[@Nill757]

The decline of S&V doesn’t mean a one for one increase in baseline players. Using S&V irregularly puts more pressure on the returner. Also, if you count a 2nd shot volley-smash after an approach off short returns as part of a ‘net based service strategy’, or Serve and Net if you like, then that kind of game is I think still the most effective in tennis for a well trained net player. For the Federe case, if one counts all the following as part of a net based service game: O aces O unreturned serves O S&V O 1st ball approach & 2nd ball volley or smash Then I guess he played this way more than half the time on serve. And BTW, by my lights he’s easily the best to ever play the game this way. Better than Sampras, better than Edberg.

[@davidglow3]

Mind numbingly full tennis is serve and volley..One dimensional tennis.

[@KamleshMallick]

Stefan Edberg's serve and volley game was the most spectacular attacking tennis ever seen. 1990 to 2001 was the golden era of S&V. All that has changed now and so is my interest in the game.

[@blake7871]

Me too. I miss the variety. Loved watching Agassi vs Sampras or Rafter. The contrasting styles made for great viewing.

[@bjornbergen8900]

short points and fast games less commercial revenue, make the game longer more commercials all about ad revenue, $$$$$$$$

[@HiredGunz98]

Unfortunately serve and volley players don't win very many matches at the juniors level, therefore coaches pretty much abandoned teaching this to young players. All they care is about is winning, not so much development , when it should be the opposite.

[@kingarthurusatenniscoach1415]

bad coaching ,,, I teach the Vic Braden way and his volley knowledge is the best

[@carseye1219]

I don't think it's a complex answer at all. The way you win in the juniors is to never miss and perfect horizontal movement. On baseline ground strokes, the swings stay the same. To get to the net, you have to work on approach and mid-court games. And, non-swing, volleys take work to become proficient. Kids, and their coaches, don't want to take any "one step back to take two forward" periods. They want to keep winning and not drop in the rankings.

[@7798chrisd]

Pat rafter

[@jonm2522]

Heavier balls to compensate for the more powerful rackets and courts slowed down to entertain the crowd. Another words boring tennis. Best vollyers, McEnroe, Sampras, Edberg, Becker, Rafter, Cash.

[@crsantin]

Serve and volley is my favourite to watch. I miss it dearly. Baseline grinding is boring as hell.

[@exfolios]

If the baseliners of the 2000's were playing in the 90's, Sampras would beat them all because of his superior serve combined with faster courts. If Sampras played in the 2000's with the slower courts and balls, he would not break the top 100.

[@alkathorat2859]

Quite opposite he would get bageled. Baseliner has proven they can compete at highest level of fast court we cannot say that about serve and volley players. They are struggling on slow court since day of the dawn and clay court which got faster in 1996 serve and volley player still were average.

[@doublem1975x]

Baseline rallies are boring and slow.

[@ivanpalaca6230]

This video makes an agruement that federer really is the goat of tennis

[@FootFaultTennis]

How so?

[@ivanpalaca6230]

@@FootFaultTennis it supports federer having alots of disadvantage because of tennis evolution doesn't fit much his playing style and the only people benefiting it are baseling players like you said. Particularly novak and nadal who are treats to claiming that roger is the goat

[@ivanpalaca6230]

@@FootFaultTennis there is a video also related to this too. Here it is : kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpKpkGNnbcxgr5I

[@FootFaultTennis]

@@ivanpalaca6230 I understand the point. Correct in that his attacking playstyle is certainly not the norm anymore. However, I'm a firm believer in not providing context to stats within the GOAT debate, otherwise you get into a whole world of trouble and issues and bias.

[@alkathorat2859]

​@@ivanpalaca6230 Quite the opposite Djokovic have beaten him on indoorcourts. he literally has lost championship when court got faster in past 20 years Nadal has beaten him without natural gut in his racket on all surfaces.

[@spac18]

Tennis has become quite boring these days, only Nadal's sideline forehands are awe inspiring.

[@quiksix25]

Serve and volley was boring- big serve, run to the net over and over again

[@SreeramReddyB]

killing serve & volley is the worst thing. Tennis became more and more boring, except for Federer's tennis and very few others like Feliciano Lopez, Dustin Brown etc

[@mikeholley5662]

They need to take those big, power-boosting racquets away from the pros. They're for hackers, weekend warriors who need all the help they provide. Pros need to be made to compete with less-forgiving equipment that forces them to be perfect, to be real pros. It's that way in other sports. Pro baseball players are forced to use wooden bats. Pro football players use a larger ball. NASCAR drivers don't get dual-clutch, paddle-shift cars. NBA players face a longer 3-point distance. Make the top ATP players use small-head racquets with less-forgiving strings. Oh, and take away their drugs.

[@aaronaragon7838]

The most cogent assessment of modern tennis yet...you nailed it, amigo.

[@tomloft2000]

if you mean slowing down the game, changing the balls might be easier.use balls with less pressure and are more fluffed up(which might mean foregoing the change of balls every 9 games).

[@hanbrianlee]

@@tomloft2000 i dont think he meant slowing down the game

[@Dan1elAndrade]

Only the racquets and balls from the 1910's should be allowed. Also no player should be allowed to jump on the serve. That will bring back the most interesting tennis, the real pro tennis.

[@MrBen51309]

Wooden bats in professional baseball are a safety precaution IIRC

[@chacmool2581]

Hey did of the black screens. Terrible. Thumbs down because of that.