Why hire Seniors not Juniors? | TFT Magic & Mayhem | Teamfight Tactics

[@grimdeathkid]

Juniors are an long term investment that might not pay off, lots of places aren't doing well enough to risk investing in that.

[@yagooatthegoat]

Reality is none of us are loyal. Our mental during work is like our mental during soloq

[@blastomerx]

Yeah. I see this in this areas. Juniors don't really contribute much and after you trained them, they can go another company. I work as a blue collar worker. We see similar things also. But we don't care that much. Because we always need juniors. So if one run away, we employ one junior again.

[@Shikaschima]

As someone who was in that branche: No. They do have the money to risk. They just would rather safe every penny they can because the CEO needs more profits.

[@grimdeathkid]

@@Shikaschima So you work in the games industry and are somehow completely unaware of the mass layoffs and studio closures due to bankruptcy ? sounds like horseshit to me bro.

[@N_May1]

In this current stage where every tech company is downsizing yea

[@250590317]

Went to high school with Kent, great guy, 20/10 would recommend in any position

[@vienkyngo5184]

How's he with missionary?

[@meomaybe0104]

@@vienkyngo5184 sv

[@calebolsson5182]

Im actually really glad you explained this, I'm about to graduate and have been noticing the same trend. This is super valuable context

[@VinnyB77]

I wanna see a set designed only by Mort, his pick of units, theme, gimmick, full Mortdog set

[@cosmicstariight966]

Foodfight Tactics.

[@epicmonkeydrunk]

Keep asking

[@chanalfred7011]

And there will be a prismatic augment called "dev hack"

[@detria8490]

every champ is a different malz skin

[@ksavius]

Rammus as 7 cost

[@jw550w0r9pw]

He got caught in the end

[@nicolaslevasseur875]

Gaming companies want senior devs at 70% of the salaries the rest of the industry offers and with worst conditions. And then we wonder why AAA releases feel half baked, rushed and uninspired a lot of the times…

[@chevoyingram9589]

It's actually the opposite they hire new people who don't have the talent/ experience of the old guard who have left and doing their own shit so they make the same mistakes the old guard have done. and resulting in the shit you complain about. But that doesn't fit your narrative so you will ignore it. Also the best games are from passionate people doing their own shit look at indie games. But you will cherry pick what you want to believe so have fun with that

[@nicolaslevasseur875]

@@chevoyingram9589 We are saying the same thing? They want seniors but they offer worst conditions so they don’t get seniors (and they don’t keep their juniors who would become seniors) and they’re stuck with only juniors. They only look for seniors bc they have enough juniors already. Idk why you’re being a dick about this whole thing when you just lacked basic comprehension of my comment lol.

[@Oleoay]

@@nicolaslevasseur875 the same concept applies to working for sports teams. So few jobs, lots of competition and the teams can pay what they want because people like working in sports and the prestige of having that on your resume.

[@Soten_10]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@chevoyingram9589What an aggressive/smart ass reply to a take that may not be objectively correct, but subjectively so. Are you burned out from people constantly having the same gripe about video games these days? Or have you worked in a company which context-wise has the same conditions? I'm not in the industry, but the YT short here is somewhat of an anti-thesis to your claim, so I'm interested in why you think companies are instead hiring more juniors instead of seniors.

[@meekumanu]

Theres also the problem of hiring seniors who have an ego and think they know right because of their experience, and they dont understand how much the gaming industry has changed in the last 10 years. That leads to bland AAA titles, shitty remakes and unimpressive sequels.

[@Wilford736]

Unrelated to mort's fiscussion, but I saw the Aatrox. I think he's the only 1 cost unit that can solo all the pve rounds, closest contender is olaf with belt on set 10

[@PotatoTortoise]

set 9 (not 9.5) renekton could do it 100% of the time no crits

[@whole.milk__]

It’s a bit unfortunate that when there ARE junior roles or internships they’re often solely for technical roles like Software Engineering/SFX/Design. There doesn’t seem to be much desire by gaming companies to hire business/management side juniors who have a passion for the industry (I’m one of them).

[@Oleoay]

it can be better to transition a senior programmer who is burned out to the business or management side because they'll be able to gather requirements and speak the technical language along with having the subject matter expertise

[@whole.milk__]

@@Oleoay yeah, often feels like generally companies feel like they can teach management and business skills to technical people far more easily and cheaply than teach business people the technical skills.

[@Oleoay]

@@whole.milk__ well its not just that, but it's also the subject matter expertise i.e. why things are done the way they are

[@rtyt5555]

managers are very *high risk* for every company. a bad manager can make even the best engineer quit. and a manager ignorant of the law, can cause deep legal problems for the company. juniors make mistakes. they are inexperienced- and are also, high risk.

[@DRida64]

finally, something that works in favor of seniors like mort.

[@django4013]

You can't have seniors without juniors...

[@sparks6177]

Yeah but as it stands there are enough seniors to supply the majority of roles. Eventually you’ll need juniors but big companies have the pull to hire the best and everyone else trains the seniors up at a loss. No reason for a bigger company to hire juniors that might not pan out and also cost the same as someone that’s immediately valuable, instead of someone that’s potentially valuable in a years time.

[@trashcanjely]

I think he probably means seniors as in working experience, usually 5-10 years in the industry

[@sparks6177]

This is why raising minimum wage doesn’t ever work how we wish it did. If minimum wage for a junior was much cheaper then you could hire someone who’s new to the career at a good price and as they gain experience they graduate into higher paying work due to becoming a senior in the career. Also many careers have specific minimum wages. For example a plumbing apprentice in my state has a minimum wage of 12$ but apprentices are so green they don’t actually start producing enough to pay for their own wage until they have a years worth of experience. As it stands now the only reason to hire a junior in most careers is as a long term investment, but you have no guarantee that those people will stay with the company long enough to actually mature into great professionals, and even if they do they may leave, meaning you paid a premium to teach someone the job and then another company gains the reward. It’s a toxic corporate environment for sure.

[@molsy1768]

I get it, but its completely stupid from an industry perspective. All this does is stunt the development of young staff. This policy will directly lead to a shortage of quality talent in 10 years time

[@Oleoay]

the theory is that a young developer should work on their own projects to create a portfolio and build skills. a young developer who can't figure out a way to develop their skills is probably not a good fit for a gaming company

[@molsy1768]

@Oleoay and what that effectively does is prohibit individuals who need hands-on help to learn and improve, therefore drastically decreasing the pool of people who can become senior devs. That's why the theory sucks. There's a reason this isn't done in other industries. You need to bring young talent in and train them. To not do so is to prioritise short term profit over long term survival, which is a dumb business strategy

[@Oleoay]

@@molsy1768 it doesn’t prohibit them because you can still get junior developer roles at many non gaming companies. Software developers, especially junior ones, are not game designers so would have little input into the plan for a game. Meanwhile they still need to learn how to write good code, document processes, handle change control etc. which can be done at many non gaming companies. Also, games are short term profit focused, which is why you hire senior developers and maybe take on an interesting unpaid intern.

[@rastraman1]

​@@Oleoayyoung developer need to eat. So they need to find work and work on their own project at their free time.

[@dennyahh]

because the work is hard as fuck to get right and it takes years of experimenting to begin to approach the idea you can fulfill a product like a video game that people want to constantly engage with and consumers demand it next week, not 4 years later after picking it up and dropping it every so often

[@slayerzerg]

tech industry being mortdog'd right now by this mentality but it makes sense lol

[@archirnobenz]

I wonder if the world only looks for seniors. What would happen to the future?

[@WhyS0]

No seniors in a long run. Junior ain't going to evolve themselves into a senior like wild pokemon did.

[@skywalkerjohn8965]

​@WhyS0 The funny thing is that some pokemon does require a trainer involvement to actually evolve

[@Eduardo-pu7pb]

That’s the current work state of the economy too and how the job market is for bay fields.

[@yagooatthegoat]

I mean look at kent the cooker. He had 0 experience but he had passion

[@FlutterSwag]

How to make sure the industry collapses in on itself

[@denisyil]

Am i hearing a yakuza soundtrack in the background

[@LuvLexyU]

I'm just sad narrative died. I only went to school because riot employees on-the-job narrative team said my stuff was good and they'd love to see me work in a narrative field. Lmao. But then narrative is dead in most companies.

[@bisha9347]

Best of the luck to you, the instability in the industry suck atm but there are hope

[@garethh7897]

Why is it that we can recognize that as bad practice, but we cant impliment any changes to make life a bit easier for everyone.

[@bisha9347]

I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad practice. Look at Ubisoft for example, where the quality of the game goes down hill substantially during the recent years due to the influx of junior engineers and the lack of experienced seniors within the field. There are some middle ground that has to be met for sure but this practice does have its upsides and minimizes risks.

[@dracuhl8342]

​@@bisha9347During recent years? Bro don't lie out your ass like that. Ubisoft's issues go back to over a decade. It's not some new hires messing up Ubisoft.

[@dracuhl8342]

@garethh7897 It isn't profitable to do so.

[@ChucktheMan33]

Because companies are pretty much obligated to take little risks, lots of their funding will come from investors who will only invest in things they find profitable, as a result they'd rather have open positions for senior positions than settle with juniors to replace. In tech this is pretty apparent because a TON of people are getting into tech positions and companies only want so many new hires to build up

[@denusklausen3685]

Well seniors have to become seniors somehow. Odds are the juniors are more inspired they just don’t have the experience. There needs to be a balance, like maybe a team of 3 juniors with 2 senior supervisors. This is setup in many tech companies anyway

[@mateuszorzechowski5440]

i was junior, then senior and right now they kick me out. And any company didnt want me as a senior. People with 6y of experience lookin for junior positions. There is no place for juniors right now

[@insecurecow4419]

If you need someone to explain “Why do employers primarily hire those with experience” then I fear you’re the reason they only hire those with experience 😂

[@Jude-yk9uc]

In other words literally run tf away from this industry LMAO

[@AVDICHIAN]

What set is he playing

[@rubinrobo2265]

I am big into game design and have no idea how to actually get into the business. so rn Im just going for learning programming and getting there over 3 corners

[@bisha9347]

Look into entry positions and see what experience/background is needed. Most will require some technical background ground, along relevant experience in similar fields, like graphic design, digital art, creative writing, or hard skill sets like statistics or front/backend software.

[@sparks6177]

One way to make headway without relying on being hired by a company is to just start coding personal hobby projects that are similar to what you want to make in the future. If you want to develop games then develop a simple game yourself, etc. then when you actually get a promising job interview you’ll have something to show from your portfolio of work. You could also freelance and show that you’ve had clients who have paid for your work. Simple stuff like fiver or something similar for graphic design or simple fast coding projects.

[@rubinrobo2265]

Thanks for the advice. I am currently looking for a position in programming since its hard to find something at an entry level for game design. So gonna spend the next few years learning programming professionally and work on my portfolio on the side.

[@MinosML]

And this is exactly why industries fail. I seriously hope the gaming industry is next.

[@xr4zgr1zx]

Also lower level jobs are most likely outsourced.

[@Deanbeyers1984]

Imagine saying you need HR and meaning it. 🤓

[@JustMe-yr5lw]

Now this is all a lie. As an employer we ask you what your length is and hire you based on that👍

[@bisha9347]

It’s 8 inch enough?

[@rmidifferent8906]

It's clear to anyone that has ever worked in tech. You need to supervise a junior. You need to guide him. You need to train him. You need to check whether his work is good or not. He will not produce as much and he will use a lot of time from others. That makes a cost of a junior much greater than a cost of a senior plus a lot of risk on top of that, because there are no companies that can vouch for him Of couse a junior might be the best thing that happens to your company he/she might be very productive, ask insightful questions, learn very quickly and generally increase morale. It might however be that he/she will ask a lot of questions, will not do anything by themselves for a few months and will not learn even the basics

[@sparks6177]

Yep that’s it. Juniors can be a great investment, but as it stands they cost similar to a senior but take important time and resources from your most productive people. And at the end of their training when they start being productive they might leave for whatever reason, better pay, more prestigious company, better benefits, etc. and of course your company is at a disadvantage because you spent a lot of money training new hires instead of increasing benefits of the job. Loyalty is one of the biggest things you need in a career when you’re starting out, it’s the only thing that can make up for your lack of experience.

[@BatehamRadio]

There are so many new college graduates that can’t code for shit. Had too many new grads get let go at my company.

[@bisha9347]

Too many people cheat through college, now that company are hesitant to hire new graduate.

[@BobbyDandJCASh]

Fix item bench and make it so when ur bench caps on space for units the red unit is returned later on

[@tuvillo]

Lol no then you'd have a permanent infinite bench

[@sparks6177]

It’s not broken, that’s how it’s supposed to work, otherwise you would effectively have infinite bench space.

[@ElijahOshatz]

Mortdog, I love your content, but please be more sensitive to some of your viewers. At least include a trigger warning if you’re gonna say “HR”, it’s a touchy subject for some of us

[@ZeusBLoC]

but then in the long run then youll have no seniors since you didnt hire any juniors so the company loses in the long run which only makes it weirder

[@lukajovanovski1178]

And if u had juniors u finally molded into seniors now theyre getting insane offers from other companies who didnt bother molding their own juniors.

[@mikkelrw]

Big gaming companies like Riot, Activision and EA etc can get away with hiring practices like this because they are more desirable than lesser known companies.

[@bisha9347]

@@mikkelrwI mean look at Ubisoft on the other hand… of course it’s both side of extreme and there is middle ground somewhere in between.

[@sparks6177]

@@bisha9347Ubisoft has bigger problems than just lacking experienced devs. And I would argue it’s a management/goals issue. Their games have bugs and are unpolished, but that’s stuff even the best games have had and they just needed more time to work those out before being released. The main issue is that instead of letting the games be polished they focus on dei elements and marketing based on things the gamers that will pay for the game don’t care about. Nobody cares how ground breaking your game is if the story sucks and the gameplay is unsatisfying, but they rely too much on gimmicks designed to pander to the smallest customer base which is fine or a game that only costs a few million to make by a small team but it can’t work with a 300 million dollar AAA game.

[@MokinNejunu]

So when is Riot gonna hire someone capeabple? Both league and tft in shambles. Barely play the last 2 months. First game today... 4 removers on 2-1.

[@Saida___]

Mort once again gaslighting chat so that his explanation seems reasonable tldr we don’t care about u we just want people with good resume.

[@tuvillo]

Ok... And what type of people have more stuff on their resume?

[@Inconspicuousaccount]

Sounds awfully close to a cover up of insider trading

[@MaskedMass]

What does that even mean?

[@metaford3746]

i think that you don't know what insider trading suppose to mean

[@Jekker1435]

I was a game designer/developer made a couple games here and there with colleagues. I graduated in 2022 and I couldn’t find a job as of today. I made the best choice of my life back in early 2024 and head into trades. I got further into the industry than a game developer ever could in 5 months. Not saying that hiring seniors isn’t good but some companies need to give juniors a shot as well, many hidden talents from people that didn’t get the spotlight to showcase. It’s definitely a shot in the dark for a company to hire a junior. As of right now most of my colleagues are still looking for a job in the game industry. It is quite sad the amount of money and time somebody has put into a career and no company would hire them because they don’t have 5+ years of experience after graduation.

[@bisha9347]

Riot and Ubisoft seems to be on the two ends of extremes and there should be middle ground somewhere in between.

[@Jekker1435]

@@bisha9347 most of the industry companies do not give juniors a shot. 98% of the time the only way into the industry as if you know somebody that can put you in. otherwise it is all how good your skills are in the portfolio.