Why I Canceled The Woods & Fail Time YouTube Channels...

[@maxsimmons9814]

I think you should make a “meet the team” series so we can learn to love and know each individual team member more!!

[@HowDoYouLikeYourCoffee]

It would help us new KZbinrs learn about things like editing and the work behind quality content.

[@ChimeraGirl_]

I really like this idea.

[@kadekoster3373]

Yes!!

[@calvinz345]

YES!!

[@silverlion10]

Agreed!!!

[@penguinrapper6896]

Please bring back Wood's channel....he had one of the best vlogging channels in hi5...even though he used to upload once a month or so ...... I always used to look forward to it. Thx I have never got so many likes at once

[@jadaanderson7545]

Penguin Rapper yes please yes!! I’m painting his logo but with my name on my jean jacket 😂 please

[@matthewduman7687]

Penguin Rapper bring woods back

[@bearbeetsbattlestargalacti9287]

same bring back woods

[@weirdo-oh3jj]

Yes bring back woods please

[@Jaden-if4me]

Woodland delmars is his new channel. Please go sub

[@lancehinckley7570]

Woods vlogs are literally the only vlogs i watched besides you

[@mariahennessey7053]

Yeah

[@jacksonmoore8502]

Same he’s my favorite

[@Gamingmonkey608]

I know woods was the best there’s no one else

[@cold3869]

Lance Hinckley yep

[@Carloshirmiz]

Woods is still uploads

[@ateaatea6882]

Tbh... wood's vlogs are wayyy better than other vlog channels

[@BeeTeaDubs]

I definitely agree with that, no doubt. I think a lot of it has to due with Woods, himself. He's so funny, charming, fun and fantastic in front of the camera. He doesnt have to do much to make it a great vlog. He's also a good looking dude lol

[@thatguyglenn7558]

Pierce The Truth agree

[@djay420]

@@thatguyglenn7558 same but it's fine I guess :( )

[@afshandastoor8031]

I totally agree too

[@LariahRhae]

Pierce The Truth I highly agree

[@lucyssilverlining5396]

I really admire your honesty and transparency. You're doing an amazing job. God bless x

[@sherdonsworld]

🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@BeeTeaDubs]

Good point. I completely agree!

[@shellypoolmant2448]

I agree!❤

[@TheAngieIshmael]

I really appreciate you explaining all this to us, and I am so so sad Woods won't be vlogging anymore. His channel was honestly one of the best you have at Hi5 Studios, a very personable fellow

[@wasabipeas9271]

I-...I'm honestly heartbroken... Woods was my favorite channel. I couldn't wait for him to upload. His videos helped a lot with my anxiety and i enjoyed them very much... Imma just go cry in the corner. Cant believe it took me this long to find this out

[@sic0t]

Wasabi Peas SAME DUDE! ;-;

[@colinmurphy8562]

I can tell these videos are hard to make, but I think it’s good you end up still addressing them with clear points. Really makes the decision seem way clearer. Keep up the good work Matt.

[@whiskitangofoxtrot7824]

I love how much I'm learning with each new video. So far in the last 3 videos you've touched on quite a few topics that i was curious about when it comes to KZbin. Makes me wish I could start my own channel.

[@Catzgomeow4eva]

I love this channel, and I love the informative style. It's definitely something new compared to the other hi5 channels, but I really like it. I have known you since about the time Team Edge started, and I'm really proud of how far you've come. Keep up the fantastic work, Matt.

[@KungFuWombat]

To be honest I kind of started to worry about Woods, he looked like he was getting more and more listless. And I agree he is an amazing talent to have around, doing what's best for him in the long run is the right play. Love what you're doing around the place, keep it up.

[@victoriabarry6065]

I really love this new vlog. I think that it is really cool to see more about how you guys run things. I think that overall you made the decisions needed to keep things running great for Hi5. I also respect that you made sure to keep everyone in jobs that they love doing. Looking forward to more future videos throughout but especially on here and Dope or Nope.

[@JordanLong12]

What I appreciate about these videos is just how transparent you're being with your process. I will admit, I've definitely lost interest in various channels because it felt like the content wasn't being tailored to the audience, and rather was being pumped out just to keep uploads coming. I look forward to hearing more news like this. Keep up the good work, and it's crazy to see just how far y'all have come. Much love.

[@SiddyE]

Honestly, watching Woods channel is what brought me back to watching and enjoying Hi5 videos. I kind of drifted away from all the channels except Team Edge and I came across one of woods videos in the recommended and his personality drew me in so I literally went to all channels across Hi5 and looked to see what channels he most appears on and Subscribed, and even though some of the channels are cancelled, I still subscribed to them.

[@alexisbrockway7672]

Dang...Fail time and Woods were both really good channels. RIP Woods and Ashley...but it's all understandable.

[@alyssa7owls756]

I love that Matt addresses everything in a professional manner and isn’t one of those bosses that throws people under the bus , love HI5

[@ElektrasComplex]

I appreciate how transparent and open you are about all of this, It's not easy to admit when you make a mistake but you did it flawlessly Excited to see whats to come in the future

[@wildfire3694]

Oh my god is that you Mathais, I haven’t watched u in years, time has really passed 😞

[@ClipCrew]

Azerial 2006 aahhh, the good times

[@TRRK01]

@@Azeriiall ?

[@CSMGRP]

@@Azeriiall ahh Mathis. The olden days

[@currykingwurst6393]

@@Azeriiall Mathis should come back. I really liked his content back in the day.

[@Iseeblue1]

Wild Fire same I stopped watching him and the other channels

[@ziontrask3459]

I would very much enjoy the Woods channel back Like so the team can see 👇

[@nathanreaperz8229]

literally shaking, im actually shook nasty that you're regularly posting nowadays! love ur vlogs!! please never stop it. everybody loves it.

[@Neterna]

I Love this type of videos cause it gives us a different perspective of the content we all Love and the work that it takes to make the viewer happy as well as the talent.

[@guitarromanticsearch]

I will miss these channels so much 😭💔🥺😢

[@DuhDee]

I miss Woods 😭 him and Sam are just hilarious! However I understand why you had to do what you did. I would love more videos like this though, so much wisdom was shared with us and it was fun to learn. Also congrats on the new little member that will be joining the family!

[@Nathan_McAllister]

I have some thoughts I’d like to share. My wife and I have watched your content for awhile! We totally trust you and your decisions here. However, as soon as Woods started vlogging we were hooked. He was super fun to watch and we really like his personality! I’m glad he is full time on REKT. However I feel that REKT doesn’t highlight personalities/interactions between each other, nor is it really intended to. More so for the entertainment it provides! Is it possible for Woods to possibly be featured on more than just REKT in the future? We love and admire that you are looking out for your team!

[@harmonyrayne3438]

I really enjoyed watching Woods videos I hope that you decide to continue that channel, but I respect you're decision. I've been part of your channel chain before hi-5 was apart of it.

[@adrianacusamano3749]

I just want to say I appreciate how humble you are in explaining all of this. I think being humble and not blaming others is the key to being a great boss/business owner and one of the rarest qualities in people. I love the family friendly clean content your strive for and I hope you never stop what your doing. Thanks for the honesty and keep up the good work!!!

[@mayojaylaylo5627]

Though I’m not happy about these two great shows ending, I’m glad you took the time to tell us what’s going on in this company we all love dearly. It tells me that you really care about us, the fans, and want us to see everything that’s happening and is going to happen. I’m glad that Woods and Ashley get to stay, and that they have other roles in the company that we can see. Thank you for your sincerity, Matt.

[@theRainbowWhoovesshow]

I understand,I know i complain about your stuff over and over (mostly get good gaming) but I truly hope you guys get better and I hope that everything can be fine for the rest of the year for you guys😁

[@caitiestuck9732]

I’m sad to see them go, but I love where your mind and heart is in the situation. ❤️ I look forward to seeing how all the other channels grow over the course of this year.

[@shinomemeakito]

Im just gonna ask,why is Roze the only person uploading at hi5

[@kalaila8236]

I LOVE this channel! I've been watching you for years, and one of the things I loved about you was that you talked about what was going on behind the scenes. In that regard, I do have some feedback of my own. If possible, would you be able to give updates on the positions of some members? For example, it's really shocking and confusing when Sam mentions on Totally Trendy that she is having a meeting with Paul because he is her boss, but we have no idea why or how that happened, or what that means.

[@EighmyLupin]

Kind of bummed to see the channels go, but I get what you're saying and think this will ultimately be for the best. Also, I think Ashley and Woods will be happier so that's really good.

[@soda4930]

I didn't know that those channels were canceled and I'm not too sad about it, but it just amazes me how Matt just radiates a "professional" or "boss-like" feeling and I can always learn something from him. I also think that it is really cool how Matt is one of those leaders who doesn't give up and is accountable for his mistakes. Keep up the great work Matt, and I hope you can sort things out quickly so that everyone can have fun with their jobs. :)

[@000almodamer000]

Combine the forces, make Woods and Ashley in a new channel. Give them a goal to achieve in a certain time. I believe that with Ashley's ability to adapt and Woods's creativity they would make a great team. Just a suggestion, best regards

[@charliehubbell7513]

Tough choices take the strongest wills. Thanks for your dedication to us an your own team ❤️

[@Sam-ry5nx]

I love this channel just because I love seeing the small detail that goes into HI5 and I love the updates. Even though they were canceled they were great Channel’s I loved them both and they will be missed.

[@jadaanderson7545]

Woods was canceled 8 months ago and I’m still sad about it...

[@BarelyNoticeable]

Not trying to knock you or the other channels on the Hi-Five network but speaking bluntly... Woods was slowly becoming the David Dobrik of the Hi-Five group. Like his face, his personality, *he* was becoming the most attractive (in the youtube views and clickability sense) person in Hi-Five like... he’s becoming/become one of, if not IS, Hi-Five’s strongest asset.

[@ruthwikchadalavada6897]

Among all the vlogs I loved these 3 vlogs coz they really show that its not easy being a CEO ans also sho its not easy to run a KZbin channel...i actually think these are the real behind the scenes and the previous vlogs were only fun abd happy moments Thank you sir

[@latenightlaura2865]

My deep thought input: I really enjoyed Woods channel. I think he is very much more relatable to us, he started out as kinda fumblingly kid but it was so great to watch him grow. I personally feel he was getting better and better. I could agree that maybe he didn't really have a direction in which to put the channel, However i really enjoyed it. Have you thought about like neutral channel? where anyone at hi-5 can pick up a camera and do a vlog or whatever it is they like. No set schedule of who uploads, no set definition of the actually content ( example if woods want's to mix 100 fruits together) or someone wants to just do like a day in the life kinda blog. I feel like this would take the pressure off of each individual to have to constantly think of content and rush it out but still allow them to be the front once in awhile. As the viewers this would allow us to to still see our favorites but give us more of personal touch that we can relate to. For you personally i feel like this would give you the insight of each person and there style , quirks and ect. I feel like this could give you the option to even merge more channels in the future ( if you need to) but still have the content there. Maybe you have done this in the past and i missed it? Maybe that is what click crew was trying to be?

[@__lunareclipse]

Im not disappointed about the channels being cancelled. I can see all the points that you made and I support your decision. I look forward to seeing Woods and Ashley on other channels!

[@RipplewiffleVODS]

Great both of my favorite channels have been channeled. You should continue fail time and have like text fails where we would summit our fails

[@blee5268]

This channel is spot on! You give a unique perspective to the work it takes to create quality content. Trying to satisfy over 100K+ and attracting subscribers is not an easy task. If a channel's content becomes common, it's viewers will leave. To redirect the talented people who worked on The Woods & Fail Time into other projects at Hi5 shows the love and respect of all the people at Hi5 Studios.

[@katelynzweibohmer]

Omg Woods channel was my absolute favorite!

[@dirtbikeracergaming4962]

Same

[@andreai3978]

I prefer woods over Paul's channel. And no on not crying 😀

[@srivatsanparthasarathy7445]

Thank you for clarifying all the doubts and question that was in my mind. Do not get me wrong I like every channel you produce in your studios. I eagerly wait for hi5 studio uploads but I started to think fail time became more like reaction channel as you said there ate lots of creators who do that. As for woods blogging I understand you cannot have new ideas every day. That's why as a leader you should have given tools and support system for Ashley and Woods. Every day is a learning lesson. A leader is a person who appreciates the hard work of the team but also acknowledges his weakness

[@TheKawaiiSlartibartfast]

I really appreciate these videos. It's really easy to forget that Hi5 is a business and all the wackiness involved in that.

[@엘사-h5f]

This was a really well-explained, articulated video. You made it make sense, and you owned up to your mistakes. I’m glad to hear you’re not stretching yourselves too thin and are going to focus on what is already established. Best of luck with all of that! I look forward to watching you guys continue to grow;) God bless

[@PrincessLingLing]

Really like this video format. Sometimes like I like to watch serious stuff and learn things! Aw man! I hope you recycle those channels into something soon!

[@kassandranapolitano7592]

I’ve been watching Hi5 content for quite some time now, and have always had respect for Matthias and everything he does. Watching this video brought this respect to a whole other level - Matthias seems like the type of CEO who is an incredible leader - someone who puts himself in others shoes instead of thinking only of himself. I am so glad to see a leader with this much respect for his employees, his company, and his viewers. Keep up the good work and never lose sight of what’s important!

[@trippychick92]

I can see you are an amazing boss and CEO of your company. Keep it up people can learn allot from you

[@currykingwurst6393]

One thing I always thought about Fail Time (since you restarted it) was that it could've been better. The concepts behind the videos were interesting, but Ashley didn't do a lot of research on quite a few of them. Too often when someone asked her about something comcerning the things they were reacting to her answer was simply “I don't know.“

[@strawberryseeds]

Woods needs to sing in videos and get a chance to record like Røze, he’s so talented and I love his voice 🎶

[@michaelalewis8283]

Ok here is the deal I want to start a biz and honestly I follow your shows because I love how you run things. You doing a video like this is awesome for me because I love this information for me to learn from you.

[@thegongoozler3374]

No doubt, you are definitely the best boss on the planet. 10:03 I'm sure everyone at Hi5 would say the same, and are happy to be a part of your amazing family. Keep up the fantastic work Matt.

[@shivamsorathia]

Hey Matt, I was wondering what the program you use to schedule your day or week. I need something like that as of late and it seems like just the thing I need.

[@melissahamilton7398]

Thank you Matthias! ❤️

[@stuartstretch4389]

Just so you are aware dude, the woods channel is the best vlog channel. By far!

[@dirtbikeracergaming4962]

True that

[@TheDonaldCarter]

Cancelling Woods was a mistake bring it back he’s the best thing about Hi5

[@alleyratcliff]

But if Woods isn't enjoying the content and what he's doing then that will reflect into the videos. I understand what Matthias was getting at, woods was getting so burnt out over the channel and that's not good for a person. Yes I enjoyed Woods' channel a lot. But I care about his wellbeing and the quality of the content too.

[@kaseyeditsstuff7385]

There's no point in bringing it back when Woods was starting to not even enjoy it and when it just causes more problems for the studios.

[@TheDonaldCarter]

I don’t believe that for a second to me sounded like an excuse for something else I look forward to his content more than any others he’s like a breath of fresh air to hi5

[@TheDonaldCarter]

Pam_ edits_stuff sorry for me just sounds like excuses his content was so fresh and fun brought something different to the channel and you can’t argue with the views surely can’t be the only one who is going to miss this channel

[@kaseyeditsstuff7385]

@@TheDonaldCarter I don't think it was an excuse at all I think all his reasons were truthful and valid and sure we're all gonna miss the channels especially woods but still if woods isn't enjoying making the content then it isn't fair to him to make him make content he isn't enjoying just because we do enjoy it. And sure the views were great but it doesn't mean that woods wasn't getting tired and that woods wasn't starting to not enjoy himself anymore doing the same type of content day in and day out or just doing the exact same stuff day in and day out can sometimes get repetitive and get tiring.

[@nicholaswyatt9247]

That's a bummer... But it's understandable.We'll keep waiting for more bomb content!

[@Insanekaity]

I loved both of those channels a lot but I understand why you made the decision Matt, still love you and the team.

[@Destros2ndone]

to look on it on a CEO point when a channel don't make money, why keep it reaction channels are cool but i know how much those channels struggle atm because of copyright issues mostly because everybody is mention it it's sad but an logic decision even more logic and a right desicion to keep the "employes" sane and healthy

[@meganrain2298]

I appreciate you taking responsibility for your team and the direction you're going now. Would still like to see more Woods on other channels and as always best to you and the Hi5 family.

[@lukepasca9765]

Bruises *exist* Matthias: “hey imma pOkE that”

[@Mr_Techroid]

Let's be honest hi5 studios started to slowly fail since Matt decided to take a break from everything 9 months ago

[@achan888]

I thought Woods videos were great and I loved the style.

[@dirtbikeracergaming4962]

Same

[@breannburningham7143]

This was super awesome and needed, thanks!

[@LydMae514]

Hey Matt, What are the Core Values and Mission Statement of Hi5 itself? And when Mission Statements are being made for individual channels, are they adhering and/or complimenting the overall Mission Statement? For example, my church has four words as its core values and three short phrases as the Mission Statement. Core Values: courageous, transparent, trajectory, and reconciliation. Mission Statement: Connect with God, Serve with compassion, and Love with courage. Because we have this as a base, ANYTHING we do (any event, any program, any mission we support) needs to uphold these to some degree. But also we as the Church (note the big "C," not little "c") work to uphold these in our everyday day lives, away from the church. I don't see y'all having a Mission Statement for Hi5 and then creating a Mission Statement for, say, Totally Trendy that WOULDN'T adhere to Hi5's. I just mean, could you basically start with Hi5's Mission Statement and reword/rework it in order to create individual channels' Mission Statements? -- Lydia Ps. I love all of your content, but these "explanation" videos are sometimes my favorite. While I might not be controlling anything, I feel important knowing things about your company that without these more serious videos I wouldn't have a clue! I like knowing how things work, whether it's a gadget that needs to come apart to see the gears or finally figuring out the math to an equation. (Or in this case, knowing the work it takes to run a KZbin studio.) Pps. Please don't burn yourself out, any more than you already might have within the past year. 😊

[@AskMatthias]

You nailed it! Hi5s mission is “Hi5 is committed to bringing compelling ideas to life and inspire joy in the world as a family, for families.”. Each show we have is an action we take in line with that mission. So each show, as they develop their missions, need to fall in line with the mission of Hi5. And anything that show does under it, products, spin off channels in the future, or bts, needs to fall in line with both Hi5 and the show. It seems complex at first but it’s really focused and makes things far more clear as to what to do and what not to do.

[@A.I.ghtmareVisions]

Whaaaaatttttt?!? Woods is my favorite, like my yt brother from another mother. I better see him on every other channel. But I understand your point. Still sad af about woods channel though.

[@wolfcub3780]

Have you ever thought of starting a Creative/Art related channel at Hi5? Where they can build props for other channels or animations of studio stories. Just an idea..

[@fecalflipperuwusksk2622]

Never heard of this channel before... I saw this and i immedenty clicked i knew something was up. Sure its super sad woods ande fail time is done, but i respect your decision.

[@kayleybrown2052]

Im really sad that you had to cancel Wood's vlogs, they were my favorite. Hopefully this leads to bigger and better things

[@Megatron_Hunt_Life]

Love the video's of what is going on. Matt we are all human thing's get hard I feel how you doing thing's are great! the network feels has a lot of good thing's the only show we don't watch is GG that's because video game's we have more fun playing. But we will give it a shot again. Thanks for the hard work!

[@davidayala8957]

I don’t need a reason, I just know that everything has a reason and it is for good

[@oscarcortez6584]

I am so sad that Woods is cancelled..... But I understand your reasons. Keep going Matt!! I think you are a great boss

[@saisitaram1433]

Woods channel is best channel based on fun and family videos and his blogging experience is zero but he made some great videos and I liked it a lot .

[@sgtepicspeed3033]

I could be wrong but wasn't this channel originally going to be where FailTime! is before getting hold off then take over the Team Edge Gaming channel?

[@RustyiPod]

Right as I started watching this video I got a notification that dope or nope tweeted

[@myerathon6994]

I like your way of business Matt I wish my job could learn from you

[@benmykietiak7954]

No need to fret about them haters. You are doing a great job and we think you’re doing great, good job 👍

[@Tamaraalkhateeb]

Is Røze gonna make music videos? If so, I suggest making a Chill Records channel.

[@lexy_charms]

Im sorry i completely forgot Matt’s “old” editors name. I think it start with a Q but what happened to him? Since Matt stopped volging until now

[@kristenskouras2517]

Thank you Matthias ✌💯

[@renification]

i really liked woods’ content :( he made really good content and it was always fun for him to be the vlogger.

[@Draco1776]

Woods has grown so much in 3 years. 👏 👏

[@adambrown6362]

I like seeing Woods fine tune and bring him back

[@diannepolmanter7217]

I respect your business decisions but I do miss those shows. But you’re the boss and I have much respect for you Matt. I’ll always be a fan of Hi5.

[@angelblue7779]

Would like to see REKT built up some. Love the channel , but needs some tweaking !!!! Love Gunner, Patrick and Woods, but they need new challenges..........BIGGER!!!!!! So much potential there! They should be on more channels as well.

[@crazychicken7125]

honestly, your whole studio has been tanking ever since this decision, first woods and fail time go, and then rekt, and at the same time, the quality and enjoyability of the remaining channels has dropped also. I left months ago, but checked in yesterday to see if things improved, but honestly, they have not. You have given me no reason to stay and watch the videos produced by your studios.

[@mcz3na]

That was the richest thing I have Heard Matt say: Hold on, my water bottle is telling me to drink water. 😂

[@Javis5527]

Also Battle Universe add that to the list of channels Matt has cancelled that doesn’t have himself in them.

[@caitlinscheid2866]

Woods was my favorite and still will be but can you please eventually bring it back but for now I am happy seeing him on Rekt

[@josephsteele2585]

idk y but I kinda preferred going back and watching the ryc's on dope or nope or the autocorrect fails...Idk if I just liked how matt did it or what but it just felt so close. I genuinely felt like I had a chance to get my comment read XD, and I totally wished Fail Time was gonna be like that but of course nothing is ever an exact replica of something, so I knew it was gonna be different. But...idk it just didn't feel like how I had wanted it to. I don't know if it was because I wasn't used to watching different people...maybe it felt like I was watching a team rather than a guy...which I know is the point but...idk I almost prefer having one guy always in front of the camera...which sounds selfish, but it felt like it was one on one...even though realistically it was like 2 million on one. It feels odd to think that I'm talking to a bunch of people rather than that one guy we've all watched and loved. Now, by no means am I saying I don't like the rest of the Hi5 crew, because. I genuine love them. they all have such amazing qualities and personalities, I just felt more connected to Matt with a "one on one" experience. I don't know how others feel but I think, there's just things that I like watching the crew do together and then there's thing's that I like one crew member doing rather than all...I love you guys!!

[@robertalan7876]

I think Woods would do hilarious food reviews or movie reviews even

[@janinemorris4400]

I think Woods is way better on REKT. Don't get me wrong I really did enjoy Woods channel, but he does seem to be much happier now. Fail time on the other hand.... I get what Matt is saying, I really do. Ashley worked really hard on that channel and I'm not taking anything away from that. It's just that I didn't care for the channel that much. I seemed to wander off in the middle of watching it to watch or do something else. So that being said I'm not totally surprise that it got cancelled. But I am sorry that it didn't work out. HI5 and everyone that works there are just great. I love the atmosphere you all show in ALL the videos you make. I really do think that HI5 is probably the best place to work at because of all the people. Matt, you're a great boss and I wish I had a boss like you that can understand what you're employees/friends are going through. I wish I had chosen college to get my bachelor's degree in Graphic Design, like I was planning too. I would of loved to had the opportunity to try and get a job there. Even know I don't have that degree, I do play around with all my Graphic design software's still. I love doing that kind of work but life can get in the way and you can't always get what you want. When I'm having a bad day or something like that I always watch one of the videos, doesn't matter if it's dope or nope, REKT, BU, GG, Totally Trendy, or Team Edge. It always puts me in a better mood and helps me enjoy the rest of my day. So that being said I thank you and your whole crew for giving me some joy in my life.

[@BrutalExcision]

Woods channel didnt need daily uploads/vlogs to be great and engage people. The irregular upload was fine as I've seen across the board. Just let him make a video every few months and casually edit and let people love his charming personality. All your other vlog channels seem way to by the script where as woods always felt super casual and fun.

[@haleys.7566]

Def gonna miss Fail Time, but I think you made the right call.

[@Xarphor]

So... Will woods be in Battle Universe or something more? Like I know he's in rekt, but will he be in more stuff? Idk, just a question...

[@hollycupcake8106]

Raise your hand 🙋if you didn’t know this channel even existed

[@butterfrog9310]

Since Rekt is no more (because gunner left) could they continue Rekt with tanner or Connor instead of gunner?