Why I Continue to Speak About the Sin of the UMC

Many have predictably taken offense to my highlighting the bad behavior of people within the denomination I left earlier this year. Many within the UMC and the GMC agree that spending time naming the sins of the past and present just is not helpful. To their mind, it only exacerbates bad behavior. If folks like me would just stop, people would finally heal and remember that they are called to act like Christians.
This piece is a response to a critique I got. I provide some explanations for what I understand myself to be doing and why I think it is needed, not just at the present moment, but for all history, if the church is to be who Christ requires us to be. It is admittedly a self-centered piece. I’m hoping folks apply it to themselves and their church contexts and consider whether their current approach is right.

[@ricknelson4721]

As a life long Methodist, I appreciate what you say. First of all, we are Christians, then Methodists second. There are still many in the UMC who are appalled at many of the things going on with some churches and especially the leadership. I still have Christian brothers and sisters in the UMC for whatever reason. Our church disaffiliated from the UMC for many reasons you have pointed out. Keep doing what you are doing. I appreciate your insight because you know more than average people like me being a former pastor in the UMC.

[@GEATOOLS]

After being a member of the UMC for the past 30 years I find it encouraging to listen to someone who is knowledgeable of the details of the conflict and willing to confront and engage in this matter with honest compassion. We need teachers of the Word that also teach by example being disciplined disciples of Jesus Christ. In regards to the past, what has been done has been done, we cant change the past but we can learn from it by remembering to give the Lord all the praise for His faithfulness in grace as He has promised to be with His disciples. I dare say He is with us in the mist of the conflict whenever and wherever it may be. I pray God raises up more and more teachers like you who are willing to make a stand for what is good and right in God's judgement. Godspeed brother.

[@sjstup]

Thank you for speaking out. I've never felt you were any thing but loving in your commentary. I'm still in the UMC and need to hear what's going on in other regions. IMHO, I've felt that in the church as well as in politics, Libs can say anything they want, but conservatives are just to sit down and shut up. To "go along to get along." I appreciate you and look forward to hearing your posts. God Bless you, Pastor!

[@rauldelarosa2768]

Amen I agree with you whole heartedly. I've encouraged people to no leave the United Methodist Church for years now and not only them, I am watching and concerned for other wesleyan arminian bodies of fellowship that could be very well affected by the liberal progressive Christianity affirming tendrils that have been trying to latch onto them and have been sneaking in teaching that's contrary to scripture unchecked. We must be on guard and not thinking that this couldn't ever happen to us or our denominational churches.

[@jakinboaz8558]

@sjstup May God give you wisdom in this. I am not a Methodist, but it breaks my heart to see the spread, and I fear what will become of the UNC now that many of the conservative churches are leaving. To both you and @rauldelarosa2768, I would encourage you to check out Young Methodists for Tradition to see some good news that just got started but can become a huge deal if Methodists just hold out and give them a chance.

[@jamesbarksdale978]

Just came across your channel. I'm not UMC - or Methodist. I did go to a Methodist college, and later a Methodist seminary, although I didn't graduate from the latter. Many years later I became an ELCA Lutheran, earned an M.Div. and was ordained. I served two churches, and was still at my second when the Churchwide Assembly voted to allow practicing, partnered homosexuals to be ordained. When I opposed it I was immediately labeled a troublemaker and an instigator. Long story short, I lost my congregation and joined another Lutheran body of which I am a member today. The pain I incurred and the damage done to my family was irreparable. For a few years I continued to speak to the issues of the ELCA, but eventually came to the conclusion that for my own well being I had to leave it behind and move on with my life. I'm glad I did. I still have friends who are UMC clergy. Most are close to retiring and I doubt they will be making any decisions to leave. Just want you to know that I'll be praying for you, and all who are going through this difficult time. May the Lord bless you and keep you.

[@plainspokenpod]

Your story is unfortunately quite common. As the United Methodists approached these things, before much of the leadership lost their moorings, many were resolved to avoid the acrimony that we saw within the ELCA when it came time for such a split. We entirely failed. I have done a couple of interviews with Lutherans in the last year, each of whom has helped me to understand more clearly the corrosive impact of progressivism within covenant bodies. I'm glad you found your way into another denomination, rather than being so demoralized as to fall out altogether, as I have seen in so many others. I ask the Lord to completely heal you and your family from the damage done in that unfortunate historical moment. I believe in a God who can heal all things, even on this side of eternity. I want that for you and your loved ones. Thank you for taking the time to write out some of your story here.

[@elizabethhonaker4855]

First off, Jeffrey, you were NOT "making fun" of those who sinned in the UMC!! You rightfully pointed out that the "Blessed be" memes were outrageously mocking the LORD'S most wonderful sermon!!! Secondly, how can your critic possibly emphasize the "gentle Jesus, meek and mild" model? Jesus famously called the Pharisees "whitewashed tombs" -- look it up!! Thirdly, what Jeffrey points out in his videos (and I have watched MANY!!) is EXACTLY why I and others like me (and I am a lay person) have left the UMC. Calling for the UMC's repentance is the RIGHT thing to do!!

[@WTHenry2023]

@elizabethhonaker4855 Agreed, when people think about a gentle Jesus, they forget the Jesus that condemned towns like Ashkelon for rejecting the Gospel, condemning people who abuse children or for whipping the money changers out of the temple for not keeping God's house holy.

[@MrWhipp3]

Dear Pastor Jeff: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don’t stop! DON’T QUENCH THE SPIRIT! We need you. We thank God for you. What would we do without you? Your support has been a lifeline for us. You’ve been a wonderful source of encouragement as well as a crucial resource for information. Our disaffiliation was painful and ugly. So, you have our deepest gratitude for your extended hand as we trudged through the swamp in the muck. Thank you for always being there. And, thank you for continuing to guide us in processing the trauma. Also, KEEP ON deleting those negative comments. Jesus told the enemy where to go. And, as for your illustrious old colleague from your old annual conference, he ain’t your brother. Woe unto him. He’s a hypocrite! He’s like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. And, he’s headed to a fiery furnace. Tell “that fox” the Lord will give him up to his own debased mind to do what not ought to be done, filled with all manner of unrighteousness. I gotta testify that revenge belongs to the Lord because the Lord is harder on the enemy than we can even imagine. So, we wouldn’t wanna ever add anything to it. That’s why Jesus asked His Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. HOWEVER, Pastor Jeff, we’re praying for you. So, PLEASE know that you have our blessing to carry on as the Lord leads. And, do NOT hesitate to turn the tables over! 💞✝️🛐💟💞

[@rauldelarosa2768]

Amen.. And Amen.

[@julessevenky8316]

I have just discovered your channel today... my husband and I were in a United Church of Christ congregation for a few years and watched it turn further and further Left... in 2020, we took the opportunity to just not go back. We have been "attending" a UMC church online, still feeling very burned by our last experience. We've talked about starting to attend in person, and your words and explanations of what's going on are extremely helpful. You are helping me decide what hard questions we need to ask the pastor, should we decide to become more involved. (There isn't a GMC congregation near us yet or we'd definitely be checking it out too.) THANK YOU for speaking out. Conservative hearts need (and deserve!) a voice and a place to call home.

[@Agben35]

One of the main issues with the UMC seems to be an inability to recognize and call out sin. It’s happening and they seem to be unwilling/unable to see it or address it. You pointing that out seems to be a very important voice that is needed at this time. I’m sure good people on that side feel a sting, as do i when my own sin is pointed out. But it is needed none-the-less. I have no idea if this brother is also contacting those within the UMC making these comments or taking actions against those leaving, but he should be. I realize you’re walking a fine line, but i didnt and dont get the vibe you are being vindictive and/or malicious with your critique and reporting. One of the things that fascinates me about your ongoing commentary is the graciousness and humility with which you handle these issues. (Way better than i would.) And you are providing a model on how to handle disagreements within the church. Typing while listening, but great point about this brother and other’s inability to hear criticism and take it as such, but rather seems moree offended by your comments than the UMCs questionable actions. Praying for you brother. Stumbled upon your channel 6 months ago and have watched from afar. But, also praying for all my Methodists brothers and sisters (i’m a Bible church guy). March on. #walkthewalk

[@douglasscovil3447]

it's not "an inability to recognize and call out sin" by the UMC, it's a complete embracing of sin and ignoring the Bible by the UMC, look at what just happened at their latest conference.

[@steventurner9955]

Thank you for giving us, me included, a voice! Thank your for your courage and refusal to be intimidated by "the powers to be"! Praying for you and your family!

[@mandygainey312]

Thank you for speaking about this. I grew up in the Methodist church. But my parents divorced when I was 19 years old. My mom stayed with a Methodist Church and my dad went back to the Baptist church. I started attending church with him and I’ve been a Baptist ever since. it troubles me that my mom still attends a Methodist Church, and to be frank, she is a “zombie.” No critical thinking whatsoever!!! When my children would go spend weeks of time with her, they would go to church with her. I didn’t mind. My children know heresy when they hear it. But one Easter Sunday, my son was 4-5 yrs old/daughter was 8-9 yrs old, they were scared with the service. Very ritualistic and Catholic-like. And my kids could also see that Jesus was not preached on much….so since then, we try to arrange our trips visit her so we aren’t there on Sunday mornings. God bless you, brother!!!!

[@KevinHale-vq2xr]

Don’t let leadership who are guilty of ungodly behavior intimidate or silence kind criticism. Tats how they stay in power is to diminish the one who tries to confront it. They are proud.

[@stanhathcock3967]

The truth remains the truth - it is the way of learning. Keep going forward with Christian love

[@donnascott2991]

It is vital to remember that being compassionate about others is downstream from the more important issue that the blind are leading the blind, that there is eternal consequence of others not hearing the gospel, the cross for our sins.

[@bellkatz9068]

Thank you for calling out the UMC, as it has "gone over the cliff" theologically and organizationally. Two years ago, my husband and I made the gut-wrenching decision to leave the UMC after 38 years. We were both on staff (as music leaders), our children were raised in the church (now 1 completely rejects Christianity due to the hypocrisy he saw there), and we agonized over the departure that caused us to leave some loving, wonderful people. We reached a point where it was actually painful to continue worshipping there when we heard messages like how Joseph was transgender (he wore a multi-colored dress), how people make mistakes (sin was never mentioned, therefore repentance wasn't spoken of either), how social justice was the real message of Jesus (vs. salvation from our sins), and how the theme of the book of Jeremiah was to prepare us for transitions, like moving from COVID back into "normalcy". It had been our hope that at least 1 UMC church in our city would decide to embrace the new Global Methodist Church. Sadly, that did not happen, despite several UMCs closing and/or merging with other congregations due to significant drops in membership. Therefore, we set out to find a new congregation with which to worship our Lord, Jesus Christ, and be fed truth from the scriptures. Thankfully, we have found a place where the Holy Spirit is dwelling, the scriptures are faithfully presented and interpreted by a devoted, humble pastor, and we are able to use our God-given gifts for His glory!

[@mikehunter6975]

I understand.

[@pwcorgi2000]

II understand what you're doing. Thank You So Much for what you are doing. Keep up the great work.

[@RGabeDavis]

If you moderate your speech you will have to change the title of the show from Plain Spoken to Nuance talk and we need another one of those like we need a hole in our head.

[@plainspokenpod]

Gabe you're fantastic. Thank you.

[@jwb025]

Thanks for what you are doing.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

Dude, smh, there is absolutely no point , spiritually or psychologically, feeling bad about pointing out the failures of the UMC today . 2-3 years from now? Maybe ,if not for your own benefit . But not today. I can’t begin to count the times in my UMC ministry when I wondered to myself something like “ When is somebody going to draw attention to what they are getting away with ? I know I’m not the only one seeing this . Are they really going to get away with this stuff Ad infinitum ? These are not people ( the UMC laypeople) these are sheep following these people , as if going to slaughter .” And I slowly lost faith in laypeople watching them give up power to these people - as long as they paid their apportionments , stayed docile , they would get a warm body in the pulpit, seemed to be the case . That said , this is long , long , long overdue . Ever seen someone who hardly ever showed their anger- maybe they were too religious to the point that they thought being angry was ungodly - so they held it in ? And then they held it in. And then they held it in some more…and then finally they just exploded over some little thing? That is , their explosive anger did not meet the reason to be angry? Well, it’s because they held it in until they couldn’t hold it in - couldn’t suck it up one more time . I think that is some of what is going on right among those leaving . And these people getting in touch with their righteous indignation and leaving have restored some of my faith in ( now formerly) UMC laypeople . SOME clergy have their own similar but unique reasons to be angry, of course . Props to those who found the self-respect to leave . The autocracy of the UMC by its very nature squelches any REAL conversation among people in such a dysfunctional system. It’s no wonder , then, that when someone is FINALLY being listened to by somebody it finally overflows. Anger is a part of grief . No competent therapist would deny a griever that stage of grief. Plus, they got away with stuff FOR DECADES while many watched it happened and silently wondered “ How long O Lord?” These are some of the last people in the world to feel bad about telling the truth about . One doesn’t want to be speaking about them forever. The writer of Ecclesiastes knew there was a time for everything . Even a time for exposure 😉. The time for not talking about it will come . But not yet.. Sometimes , there’s a point when the chickens just have to come home to roost. Sow the bad seeds, reap the whirlwind . Don’t feel bad about talking about a whirlwind not of your own doing . PS Amos was my favorite prophet 😉. There’s nothing wrong with a little humor in all this - a little levity can ease the stress of it all. Amos talked about “ Bashan cows” , after all.

[@allenschneider1847]

Jeff, generally speaking, for a member/minister to leave the UMC and then continue to be focused on it's faults and failings is probably not helpful to the disaffiliated person nor constructive for the UMC. You, however, not simply a disaffiliated minister, you are in the role of a reporter/podcaster providing information (for reflection/insight) for all to ponder. Hopefull the greatest denominational breakup in American history will at least provide lessons to be learned for those on all sides of the issue. No one moves forward by "sticking their heads in the sand" and for beneficial discussion one need accurate information. Plain Spoken (along with others from differing perspectives) has become a major source for information as to what is happening across the "greater Methodist" world. Thank you for your continuing work.

[@jpr400]

Keep shining the light, my brother in Christ. John Wesley offended any, but he spoke the truth.

[@robertkersten3971]

Brother Jeffrey, although I now self-identify as post denominational, I do serve in a GMC congregation and do keep up with your Utube and Substack articles. I agree with your thoughts as being needed prophetic words. No one speaks prophetically without causing some folks to get upset. No one likes to hear that they’re messing up. But as Paul wrote to the church at Galatia. “Brothers and sisters, if someone is overtaken in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual, restore such a person with a gentle spirit, watching out for yourselves so that you also won’t be tempted.” (Galatians 6:1) If the UMC hierarchy won’t do their jobs properly, which by the way is the reason for this mess, then someone else is obligated to do so. Keep up the good work. Blessings.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

I congratulate you on becoming “ post-denominational .” My time in the UMC not only turned me against that denomination but ALL denominations. Yes, it’s partly an emotional reaction against what I’ve experienced. I acknowledge that . But getting away from a denomination like I am now has helped me see two things more clearly : 1) though some denominations may begin with good intentions , human nature seems to always ruin a good thing with time . The Wesleyan/Methodist movement is a perfect case in point . 2 ) there were no denominations in the first century of Christianity. Churches -usually house churches -stood on their own. I could never ever be a Baptist but I think congregationally is the only way to do church . And that can be tricky in itself , so why bring more trouble into it with denominationalism? I’m hoping this century will have more and more people following this healthier and more biblical way of “ doing church .”

[@robertkersten3971]

Thank you for your comment. I came to the post-denominational position for a number of reasons. (1) Like you said, denominations didn’t exist in the early Church. (2) Jesus prayed for unity for his followers and Paul stressed it in his letters. (3) I believe most denominations probably began as a Spirit led movement, but eventually were taken over by man as a means to control it. (4) I’m unaware of any denomination that takes disciple making seriously, and none that truly put the priesthood of all believers into practice, plus with no denominational ties, I’m free to serve in multiple ministry settings.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

@@robertkersten3971 Yep. I personally think that the sharpest Christians “ put away childish things “ like denominations . I’m hoping that younger Christians in the 21st c will see how much damage denominationalism has done and not make it a part of their walk with Christ and his people .

[@mikehunter6975]

⁠@@natashatomlinson4548 Natasha, I don’t always agree with all you say, but definitely some of it. Thank you for your input. I do listen. I think all of us who struggled to get facts and information so we could decide what we needed to do are a little PTSD. My husband and I are very happy in our GMC church. We will definitely keep an eye out and hope we don’t go down the UMC way. We still love our last church and the people. Yes, some are really not happy with us. They don’t understand and don’t want to understand. All denominations aren’t bad. Lay people need to keep them in check.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

@@mikehunter6975 >> all denominations aren’t bad

[@marshalldarcy7423]

We all make mistakes but it does not change the truth. One must deal with ones origins even when the past may no longer work and an explanation is some times needed.

[@jeffdollar1646]

Remember who you are dealing with - blatant deniers of the authority of Scripture, those who call evil good and good evil - those who don't think twice about mocking those concerned about the glory of God. I think we can say that at least a large segment of them are not even Christian, but false apostles and ministers of Satan. How did the prophets deal with them? Elijah mocked them before all Israel, and then personally fulfilled the requirements of the Mosaic law upon them - personally executing 450. Obviously, that is not to be repeated today, but it does show that occasionally we must expose them for what they are. I wonder if some of these professing ministers of Christ even realize that Matthew 23 exists - the very words of our Lord Jesus Christ: "Hypocrites!", "Blind Guides", "Children of Hell", "Serpents, brood of Vipers", "Whitewashed tombs", "murderers of prophets", etc.. PLEASE don't be discouraged by the soft men of this age, who demand niceness and congeniality while the church of Jesus Christ is being pillaged and raped by false teachers - "Rise up, O men of God! The church for you doth wait-Her strength unequal to the task, Rise up and make her great!" PLEASE keep up the pressure and expose the evil of this age, for it encourages and strengthens the true people of God who have been laying despondent under the Juniper tree too long.

[@eileenthrift8259]

Well said. Being bold, truthful, and faithful to our Lord takes great courage than being gentle wimps.

[@jarrodneal1917]

In his Reflections on the Psalms, C.S. Lewis wrote something about "our qaurrels" as Christians that seems, to me, to cut to the heart of the dynamics that have prevented, derailed, or hijacked our attempts to communicate with one another. It is a lengthy quote, but well worth it: "As Christians we must of course repent of all the anger, malice, and self-will which allowed the discussion to become, on our side, a quarrel at all. But there is also the question on a far lower level: ‘granted the quarrel (we’ll go into that later) did you fight fair?’ Or did we not quite unknowingly falsify the whole issue? Did we pretend to be angry about one thing when we knew, or could have known, that our anger had a different and much less presentable cause? Did we pretend to be ‘hurt’ in our sensitive and tender feelings (fine natures like ours are so vulnerable) when envy, ungratified vanity, or thwarted self-will was our real trouble? Such tactics often succeed. The other parties give in. They give in not because they don’t know what is really wrong with us but because they have long known it only too well, and that sleeping dog can be roused, that skeleton brought out of its cupboard, only at the cost of imperilling their whole relationship with us. It needs surgery which they know we will never face. And so we win; by cheating. But the unfairness is very deeply felt. Indeed what is commonly called ‘sensitiveness’ is the most powerful engine of domestic tyranny, sometimes a lifelong tyranny. How we should deal with it in others I am not sure; but we should be merciless to its first appearances in ourselves." - Lewis, C. S.. Reflections on the Psalms (pp. 16-17). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

[@plainspokenpod]

That’s a really good quote. Lewis was such a gift to the church in some ways. Thanks for taking the time to write that out.

[@ktwm-jh3rs]

Your critiques are thoughtful, good willed, and civil. I don't see a problem here.

[@82jbrewster]

Speak from conviction brother! Be silent when necessary. Seek the Spirit to know which season you are in. Always appreciate Plain Spoken!

[@wanda520]

The UMC has lost its way. I left years ago and attend a reformed Presbyterian.

[@iamafarmerntx]

Jeffrey, I first found Plain Spoken when I was searching for a podcast on the sparkle creed to show to my Sunday school class. Does your pastor friend think you went too far exposing this hypocrisy as well? The 'be faithful' parody of the beatitudes was a disgrace! To heal I need to see where I've come from, to guide me as I journey forward! Don't back down! Don't change your approach! God Bless!

[@cherrycityhoney209]

A thoughtful topic going forward might be examining root and contributing causes for UMC deviating from scriptures. Why would we think the GMC not vulnerable to repeating these same weaknesses. Many GMC pastors were trained at same seminaries as UMC so are they now immune to ungodliness because they changed congregations? Why have social principals? Does this feed activism? Does social principles attempt to bind us to the world? Is this ok? What was Paul’s social principles? What about prophesy? Why are GMC pastors mostly silent on prophesy? Comments provided with love 😊

[@plainspokenpod]

Received with charity. Thanks for these thoughts. I have recently purchased a couple books on modern Methodist history. Hopefully that can start shining through my commentaries some in the coming year.

[@rebeccabryan7712]

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

[@eileenthrift8259]

What hypocrites! What they are saying is speaking against the Bible believers is alright but Bible believers cannot speak the truth of what God says in the Bible. Remember the prophets spoke the truth of what God told the people and were killed for it. It is not "loving" to lead people to the gates of hell and tell them "this is the way to heaven". Jeffrey, I know you delete many nasty comments. Thank you for doing that. You would think people who would call themselves "Christians" would know the golden rule, treat others like you want them to treat you. Nastiness is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Jeffrey, continue to speak the truth of God's Word. I pray for you and your ministry. God continue to give you strength, my brother. ❤

[@plainspokenpod]

You’re a good friend, Eileen. Thank you!

[@lukeony017]

I’m in a church that did not put forth a vote on whether to leave the UMC or not, and I am sure that many in the church are not aware of the liberal direction that the UMC is going or they are just hoping that the general conference will not go by the way of woke Christianity. Most of the members are 45+ y.o. and comfortable in their church lives and either are okay with being open to change or have their heads in the sand hoping the church isn’t going to join the mainstream society view of homosexuality. The coming changes and likelihood of joining the LGBTQIA+ movement as a body of Christ (within the UMC) is simply not talked about aside from a few quaint bible study groups here and there. And when questions are asked of long time church members or church staff half answers are given and you wonder if you are getting half of the truth or if they really don’t have a clue. It’s all very frustrating and I’m quickly losing faith in my current church home and denomination. I’m one foot out the door and really disappointed about all of it.

[@plainspokenpod]

Your situation is very normal. A lot of folks do not want to really be awake. Folks want to take for granted that everything is going to be okay, and there is really nothing to worry about. Now, I don’t want anyone to get hysterical, but I am of the mind that adults should be awake and sober. It is really frustrating to deal with churches that would really rather not rock the boat too much. If the church cannot be bold and faithful, then we are really betraying the heritage we have in Christ. Even so, Christ forgives. I don’t know the particulars of your church beyond what you share here but, if possible, I would urge you to stay until they either compel you to do something against the faith or restrict you from being obedient to Christ. And in the meantime, keep trying to wake them up!

[@barabbas57]

Not lancing the Sore has been largely responsible for the Toxicity that you describe.

[@opsword786]

You're right, all Christians have a right to comment! We are all member's of the Body of Christ. These issues effect all of us, not just Methodists!

[@NorthwestHills]

I think the original critique was actually an implicit affirmation of what PlainSpoken does, and an unprocessed cry for help.

[@WTHenry2023]

Jeffrey, two passages that people need to remember when opponents of your message say "you shouldn't judge": James 5-20 and 1 Corinthians 5. God will forgive our sin through Christ Jesus but he doesn't want us to be comfortable in our sin. We are called to repent for our sins. This push-over view of Jesus is killing the church. In other words. because Jesus was the atoning sacrifice for our sins, we are allowed to sin freely.

[@oshea2300]

We need to be sorry to God for what the Bible says is sin. Only once we realize we're lost can we be saved by trusting and the life death and burial and resurrection of Jesus.. he shed his blood for us taking our sins upon him, and he gives us his righteousness when we put our trust in his finished work on the cross, asking him to forgive us and save our souls from hell

[@opsword786]

John Wesley created the Book of Discipline to keep the churches in line with biblical doctrine, but it doesn't do any good if you don't exercise proper discipline!

[@tsukareppi]

Just wondering why you keep using the word “tribe.” I have no problem with what you are saying, but that word smacks a little of liberalism, so I’m interested in your use of it.

[@plainspokenpod]

I’m not at all liberal. I have no deep thoughts about using it. I just get tired of saying ‘denomination’ over and over. Or ‘covenant body.’ Tribe is one syllable. Easy. Gimme another word and I’ll use it!

[@plainspokenpod]

I’m not at all liberal. I have no deep thoughts about using it. I just get tired of saying ‘denomination’ over and over. Or ‘covenant body.’ Tribe is one syllable. Easy. Gimme another word and I’ll use it!

[@tsukareppi]

Makes sense. I got soaked in postmodernism and liberalism and escaped, so certain words make me go erk and involuntarily shudder. It’s my postmodern PTSD. Thank you for answering- and tribe does sound more personal than denomination. 😊

[@davidkwong3369]

As far as saying something that makes someone feel bad! I have gone into a church group without knowing a single person and only spoke Gods word to address a question, and offended everyone! Without knowing their sin and not even a thought of judgement. Because Gods word is judgement and all those who fall short will be naked or exposed! Yes you shouldn’t be sarcastic or ugly about exposing people. I also understand frustration, I would just suggest you understand that God hates the sin as much as you and feels the exact same thing you do, but He has the wisdom to be long patient and exercise wisdom in His will! Which is that all come to repentance. That is why Gabriel won’t argue with Satan he is a dead man walking! Hell bound! By his own choice and Gabriel cant say anything to change his mind anyways.

[@Mayhelive4ever]

People like negativity. Watching a dumpster fire burn is interesting and gets clicks / engagement. There is a reason most radio political personalities spend 90% of their airtime talking about how awful/hypocritical/outrageous the other side is. It sells. If you feel in your heart that your continued commentary on the UMC’s downward spiral is ultimately a service to them or others, then follow your conscience. But it is also wise to acknowledge the danger of becoming a source that people flock to just to hear how far their former friends have fallen.

[@plainspokenpod]

Take a look at the other content I am providing. I'm regularly filming conversations with folks who are building up, too. It doesn't get the same level of engagement, but I'm okay with that.

[@BobSmith-lb9nc]

Jeff is overthinking the breakup of the UMC. Jeff needs to give a plain spoken, descriptive analysis of what happened, rather than being judgmental. And let the chips fall where they may. Naturally, rampant denominatiionalism is based on the notion that every individual has the total right to go his own way. Each imagines that he is righteous and pure in his stand on the issues. At least Jeff is correct that christianity in general is being "torn apart." The Holy Spirit does not rule in the heart of denominational christians. Otherwise they would be united.

[@mikehunter6975]

If you have seen all of his KZbin’s, he has covered a lot and many analyses. At least, Jeffery is correct on a lot of things. Glad you are watching, and I appreciate your input.

[@oshea2300]

The gospel. Jesus Christ died for your sins, according to the scriptures, and that he was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Acknowledge your a sinner, ask Jesus Christ to forgive you, put your trust in his finished work on the cross / his shed blood that can cleanse your sin.. and ask him to forgive you and save you. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[@paulcooper8335]

You lost me at "It is admittedly a self-centered piece."

[@lawtonbrewer4107]

Delete this comment if you think it inappropriate. I have said some pretty harsh things about God and Christianity over the years, some of which I regret (though by no means all). I'm still very conflicted about these issues, however, particularly as they involve the Bible. But I have never had the audacity to seek ordination in a Christian church while expressing some of the sentiments "Penny Cost" has. Seriously, what did the UMC expect to happen when entertaining this sort of candidate for ordination? Not to mention the fact that he's been invited to speak in UMC churches, conferences, and other gatherings. Why is this man invading a place he has no business being in? This is the kind of thing that caused the exodus from the UMC, that and the fact that its left wing arrogantly ignored its own Book of Discipline. I don't think that people are fully aware of what has been going on in that church, sanctioned by many of its leaders in the name of diversity and inclusion. If I were a traditional United Methodist, nay, even a left-leaning moderate, I wouldn't walk, I'd run away from that denomination. For that matter, I think I'd leave even as a liberal Methodist with merely a vestige of Christian faith. Even allies of the LGBTQ movement within the UMC should shudder with horror at this repulsive display. juicyecumenism.com/2022/05/27/methodist-drag-queen/?fbclid=IwAR1yTkPP2_FcPPpLj6ueIsd5sDfCKpVeR7zPAmdMNvn9M7wmg9zicEFktYY

[@plainspokenpod]

I can't find much to disagree with what you say here. I obviously share a lot of your sympathies. I'm not altogether clear if you still find yourself in a hard stance against the Christian faith. I hope that, if you spend time with me and other faithful believers, you might be drawn to reconsider your disposition, and that you may even find that Jesus is indeed the way, the truth, and the life. I appreciate your taking the time to write down your thoughts here!

[@lawtonbrewer4107]

@@plainspokenpod Thanks again for your responses to my posts. To be honest, I don't know myself where I stand right now, and I appreciate your concern about my condition. I'll certainly continue to listen to your videos and to read material put forth by other Christians, especially those of the Wesleyan tradition. Keep up your good work.

[@oshea2300]

They're leading people to Hell! Want to go to heaven? Trust Jesus Christ Life, death, burial, and Resurrection alone. His death on the cross for your sins. Yes you can't be saved unless you acknowledge that you're a lost sinner and that you deserve hell, and that Jesus Christ died for your sins.. all you have to do is trust in him asking him to forgive you and save you and you can spend eternity in heaven with God. It's personal. You can have his righteousness transferred to your account so you don't have to be judged for your own sins instead you get judge based on his righteousness. Don't trust mary, don't trust your church membership, don't trust your good works/goodness. Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone nothing more. Eternal life is a free gift and Jesus paid it All. Christians are good because we love him, not to earn our way to heaven. There is so much fake christianity, many people who have tried to work their way to heaven as a fake Christian will get cast down to hell because they're trusting in their own good works and not Jesus Christ alone.

[@jamesshoemaker3842]

You are a divisive pastor, and I would never want to attend a church you are preaching at. I have watched several of your videos, and you never speak on the love of Christ. I also believe the Liberal/Conservative dichotomy has consumed your mind, and you are no longer able to preach from a place of unity but only from a place that divides people further. I completely agree with the individual you are making this rebuttal to in this video. Imagine if all the time you spent making these videos went to building up your new church instead.

[@plainspokenpod]

Yes, I am intentionally seeking to be divisive along the lines of sound doctrine. Love of sound doctrine and hope for the salvation of all flesh is what undergirds my work. I am pessimistic about the current trajectory of faith in my country at the moment and decided to do something about it. I think unity without sound doctrine is the very unity of hell. It might give you peace to understand that I and many others prioritize unity below biblical holiness. But also make sure to be gracious in your disposition. Consider the new series I have started to equip and empower the laity of the UMC around the upcoming General Conference. Consider the conversations I have facilitated around authentic Methodism, eschatology and covenant theology, apologetics, and faithful stewardship. I’m not a one trick pony. It is fine to disagree with me about whether the current situation necessitates division. I would warn against mischaracterizing those with whom you disagree if only so as to keep you from being unable to understand folks like me. Thanks for watching my stuff. I do hope it leads to a more gracious understanding for you in the future.

[@jamesshoemaker3842]

​@@plainspokenpodsound doctrine would be preaching on the love of christ with all your heart, mind, and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself. Not referring to most liberals or people on the left as insane.

[@plainspokenpod]

@@jamesshoemaker3842 I follow a Savior who regularly pointed publicly to the flaws of his detractors, basing it on biblical doctrine. It is your prerogative to follow another. We'll see who is right in the end. I reject your assumed right to put your faith onto me. You go ahead and preach love alone as seems right to you. I am going to continue both building up and tearing down. You are going to have to come to terms with that.

[@jamesshoemaker3842]

@@plainspokenpod you remind me of a pharisee from the bible you speak about religious law and theory and why certain people should be gatekeeped from the kingdom of god.

[@plainspokenpod]

@@jamesshoemaker3842 Okay. I honestly couldn't care less, James. I don't know you. I might point out the hypocrisy of your taking offense at my public discernment while you are publicly judging me, but that is between you and God. You are welcome to continue watching my stuff and offering thoughtful feedback. If you want to fight me, I can pretty easily just block you from the channel and move along with my day.

[@solemntime9121]

yes! UMC needs to hear this. But why you sounds racist? haha

[@plainspokenpod]

???

[@rochellecaffee1417]

I don’t KNOW you, but i hear a great deal of a “guilt-induced” and a “legalistic” personal view of yourself. I think you are very influenced by a “damning spirit”, and your “speech” sounds like “woke-speak”. You have many “rules” in your head. I would suggest that you leave “psycho-babble” behind, and the need for “approval”, from others who don’t even know you. Spend more time in your Bible. Col 3:16 You will be blessed. I disagree that we are ALL CONNECTED. The Globalists , (including Bill Gates) have “conned” you into thinking THAT way. No one, on this earth, could be expected to carry such a burden. God certainly doesn’t, when you realize that we “are just dust”, as the psalmist has said. Another note: Sometimes, my sorrow over my own “poor” behavior, has BURDENED OTHERS so badly, and made them, unfairly, feel responsible for “fixing” me. So, i ask you, to consider WHAT AND HOW you choose to explain yourself if you have seen yourself behaving “poorly” also. “Moral disgust” is on the lips of many preachers who, if the truth be told, don’t KNOW and never have KNOWN the “grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ”. I pray that you will find Him today, in John 3. (John 1:12-13) God bless you, and keep you, close to His heart, always. 😊❤

[@plainspokenpod]

Who taught you how to use quotation marks? Also, I’m open to critique, but what you offer here coveys a lack of awareness about what you can rightly determine about another that, on the front end you acknowledge, you don’t know. If you want to seriously engage any of the content I brought up, you’re welcome.

[@bryanbucher6998]

Cause nobody would care about anything you posted about the GMC. You and your crowd are addicted to drama. Move on.

[@plainspokenpod]

Have you looked at the majority of the content I’m producing nowadays? Definitely not in the dramatic direction…

[@user-ue1wg4sm9o]

I listen to about all of your stuff, mostly to hear/understand/ consider "the other side." I agree with your former colleague; it is time for you to stop your constant negative commentary on The UMC; especially your blanketing statements, and yes, your sometimes mocking tone/attitude.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

Gaslighting .^^

[@RichardDCook]

I also listen to this guy to hear a point of view that I don't otherwise hear. Though I think there's validity to much that he says, he's walking a fine line between loving pastoral concern and sounding like the self-righteous judgmental holier-than-thou type that makes all of us Christians look bad to outsiders. Let's remember that love is kind, doesn't seek to dishonour others, and keeps no record of wrongdoings.

[@rauldelarosa2768]

​@@RichardDCooklove tells the truth..and progressive Christianity affirming people and their emphasis aren't of God. Just like when I call out mormonism and other false christs and false teachings, and False christs..the progressive Christianity affirming position is another gospel and another Jesus. Sorry nobody told you that.

[@rauldelarosa2768]

It's not mocking to expose something that John Wesley himself wouldn't have pulled his punches on.. United Methodism is Methodist in name only and we have much progressive Christianity affirming people in our ranks.. We need to be careful and on guard. I see within our ranks the refusal to address teaching that isn't biblical or conservative and I see it creeping in the church of the Nazarene and I am afraid the wesleyan church even,a denomination I was a part of for a while.. I pray that I'm wrong but I don't believe I am.

[@stevesafety6743]

19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I believe the progressive Methodist are welcoming Jezebel