Why Infernape fell off in Gen 4

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Infernape was once a Top Tier Pokemon in Pokemon Diamond and Pearl, Generation 4 OU! It would later fall down to C tier. Here is why Infernape Fell Off in Gen 4.
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[@TheByrdman1999]

Infernapes downfall started when everyone went “oh wait it’s still a fire type”, and back then if u planned for one of them u ended up being able to check all of them(except Heatran).

[@MeteorTribe]

yeah, u summed it up perfectly, back in gen 4, fire was just a easily countered type, ranging from rocks, eq spam and just garchomp

[@dustin202]

@@MeteorTribegarchomp was Ubers Because garchomp had good stats, typing, and movepool Which got cut down on in SV

[@unkindled6410]

​@@MeteorTribe its what happens when there were almost no secondary fire types, and even today theres not many compared to the other types. and the ones we had, except for the 2 fire-fighting starters, all had quad weakness to either of its standart fire type ones.

[@anitabath2636]

@@dustin202 don’t forget it got a free evasion boost with its ability :)

[@justsomeweirdperson]

​@@dustin202 also sand veil was its only ability which is a stupid ability (still banned in sv afaik)

[@Sheeple18]

using leftovers to shrug off life orb damage is a classic strat.

[@AlmostMeantToBe]

Lmao I think he just meant not having life orb means u don't take the damage so u have more longevity but it Def was worded funny af.

[@invurret9533]

It holds them in both hands and attacks with its tail

[@davidstratton696]

@@invurret9533 U telling me Infernape had something similar to gorilla tactics before Galarian Darm was a thing (or Darm in general)? That’s crazy 😂. Well not exactly but it’s more like how Gorilla tactics is similar to holding a choice band. U get the idea 😂.

[@diondadigger]

​@@davidstratton696 A new infernape form with Gorilla Tactics would go crazy

[@2l84me8]

Because you can’t. 🤣

[@eudini7246]

Calling infernape top dog instead of prime ape was a miss

[@j_117]

Mankey?

[@unboundedquasar]

Prime ape to chimp chump

[@vez3834]

​@@j_117 Primeape was sadly prime aped

[@andrewwojtas8486]

It seems like in most older metas as time goes by things just increasingly gravitate towards bulk

[@andrewwojtas8486]

Granted this makes sense as most people still playing older gens want to focus on consistency vs bang or bust strategies

[@Qrbrbrbl]

Do you have specific examples? At least within GSC and RSE the meta has been trending towards offense.

[@Oliver-uz1fs]

​@@Qrbrbrbl bulk =/= stall Everything is somewhat bulky in GSC The most viable things in ADV have defensive utility, bulky gengar, moltres and zard, etc.

[@lesqueegee]

@@Qrbrbrbl RSE heavily hinges on bulky offense where most teams wincons are from the passive damage form toxic sandstorm and spikes. While very potent, offensive teams fall short in everything they’re able to cover. Starmie obliterates offense especially with sand and spikes, gengar neuters everything, and skarmory and blissey are so prevalent that they need dedicated trappers like magneton and dugtrio to consistently remove them. A lot needs to go right for offense to work, meanwhile TSS has been a very solidified and powerful structure for a very long time.

[@geneismm1215]

@@Qrbrbrbl Bulk and offense aren’t opposites Heck the playstyle I like most is… bulky offense

[@matthewamori7801]

I hope Infernape gets some sort of small buff that makes it relevant again cuz it’s genuinely one of my favorite Pokémon

[@marcelosandoval4206]

Maybe they give him Nature Power or something

[@infermonke7254]

@@marcelosandoval4206 nature power is useless, if they would like to buff it they would do the same to other starters (or at last empo and tort), changing its ability and updating its movepool would be enough

[@machina5]

Actually putting him in the games would be a nice start.

[@matthewamori7801]

@@machina5 you know I agree that would be a great start my boi been neglected the past few gens

[@babywizard9027]

They should buff the Iron Fist ability so it powers up punching moves by 50%, just like every other ability that buffs a certain type of moves. I really don't get why Iron Fist is so much worse that stuff like Strong Jaw and Tough Claws.

[@Sifd]

I remember when "it dies to earthquake" was enough of a reason to not be considered broken

[@ninja9567]

I feel so bad for that Mon. It’s come in handy several times for me. It’s my G.O.A.T. And my favorite Mon of all time. It just hurts seeing my favorite Mon be treated like this.

[@zuurn9943]

Same. Infernape is so special to me and it pains me to see it in such a bad state

[@bp3366]

It's not that deep sir

[@ninja9567]

@@bp3366 maybe. But it’s still a great Mon that’s helped me out more times than I could possibly count, so I hate seeing mons I like and respect be hurt by power creep and meta changes.

[@alexandrosstavrou4224]

Try being a Luxray fan for a day, THEN you can talk about pain

[@ninja9567]

@@alexandrosstavrou4224 I hate the injustices for ALL mons, Alexandros, not just my G.O.A.T.

[@typhlosion7872]

People mention Life Orb+Slack Off, but then you sacrifice crucial coverage

[@sablesalt]

That exists because stabs+u-turn does all you need

[@INTJ791]

@@sablesalt the question which one, infernape meant to use as mixed attacker, overheat, flare blitz, u turn, one cover move

[@sablesalt]

@@INTJ791 STABS

[@veenadayma6514]

​@@sablesalt In that case, Starmie, Gyarados, Tentacruel, Latias and Dragonite will easily counter Infernape. Latias and Dragonite in particular may find it an opportunity to setup and sweep.

[@sablesalt]

@@veenadayma6514 yes, mons can switch in on mons, thanks for having as much insight as the battle school npc's

[@BlazingCyberKnight95]

You can't forget about RBY Golem. That Pokemon hit hard, falling down from OU to NU.

[@ethanrussow9262]

Golem lost access to paralyzing normal types with body slam which was its OU role. From there Rhydon took its spot. UU is loaded with all of the water and grass types that couldn’t be OU so it was useless there, and now it’s NU with a niche in OU behind the worse version of rhydon for tanking but being able to explode. (Body slam cannot paralyze normal types because gen 1 programming moment)

[@itzgladgatorgonegladitzmad9701]

Explosion is enough to make it viable in OU, more than stuff like Dodrio at least which is nice.

[@brocksteele7475]

I do wonder if Golem would have kept its OU spot if Rhydon simply didn't exist as an alternative.

[@appleando752]

Golem isn't useless in Gen 1 OU though. The reason it dropped down ttwo tiers to NU was because UU's water types destroy Golem before it could do anything.

[@byzantine5761]

@@ethanrussow9262 wait because Gen 1 programming you could paralyze electric types but you can’t paralyze normal types with body slam? Haha Gen 1 programming go BRRRR

[@SuperStro509]

Nidoqueen lowkey deserves her own clip

[@kurotakuv3967]

I've loved the *Le Femme Nidoran* line more than the males since the beginning. You couldn't imagine my surprise seeing *The 'Queen* here! 👏

[@kurotakuv3967]

@Blythe808 I'm a defensive player. I'll take Chansey to the Elite Four before Snorlax. I sweat those guys way less with Nidoqueen leading the pack.

[@findout2655]

@@kurotakuv3967 I understand, I had a max def max hp miltank with curse and she would body anything after 2 curses, except for steel types because well... also scrappy ability to hit ghosts... moveset was milk drink, body slam, curse and toxic (to deal with other wall/healers) I remember she once took a close combat from a mega lucario and survived with 40-something hp and proceeded to body slam-paralyse which made me win the fight pretty much, loved that cow holyyy

[@triggerfish9967]

These shorts are the best thing to ever happen to this channel.

[@vez3834]

They made me sub to him

[@-rr-4172]

It broke my heart because infernape was my favourite Pokémon. Still got a special place in my heart 😢

[@void7080]

Rip the 2nd firefighter

[@Joe_334]

Since Blaziken is coming back, one of its usual moves such as Blaze Kick should get a return. I was surprised that Riolu couldnt have it as an egg move, in Gen IX.

[@void7080]

@@Joe_334 it's a scam!!!@

[@CasperFox]

who ever is editing this needs a raise, so insane

[@andrewlyon8924]

Diamond was my first Pokemon game, and I was really young when it came out so I never played competitively. But I remember basically spamming my way through most of the game once my Chimchar evolved into Infernape, because close combat was almost a guaranteed one-shot move. I only struggled a couple times in that game, but generally demolished without needing any sort of strategy or switching Pokemon. Good memories

[@Snappybiscuits]

Dude i did the same thing 😂

[@josemou6172]

​@@Snappybiscuitsme too

[@lordinfernape4753]

With the proper support, Infernape is actually good at cleaning late game

[@lordinfernape4753]

And no Im not a stan lol

[@stormychaser3015]

The Video talks about infernape in gen 4 competitive

[@sablesalt]

​@@stormychaser3015 and ape is still a deadly late game threat like many mons in dpp

[@stormychaser3015]

@@sablesalt "competitive"

[@sablesalt]

@@stormychaser3015 yes even in competitive it is seen as a very deadly late game sweeper, pokémon can fill different roles such as non lead azelf.

[@andrewwojtas8486]

If one is wondering about its bdsp performance, it was good but ran into similar issues as hidden abilities generally brought more chip to it and azumaril hard walled most sets. I wish bdsp was seen as it's own thing rather than being a separate gen 8 meta

[@pokeaimMD]

Yup. The lack of hidden power was also HUGE. Could no longer beat gliscor that now had poison heal etc

[@andrewwojtas8486]

@@pokeaimMD exactly

[@tbolt__]

Eh, Infernape is better in BDSP than in modern DPP. It's really hard to switch into CB Ape (especially with that powerful U-turn to deter Latias and Starmie), and there's generally less passive damage flying around to limit Ape; there is no permanent sand, it's easier to remove hazards with great hazard control options in Gliscor, Scizor, Latias, and Starmie, and the fact that most Infernape runs Band means it won't get worn down by its own recoil. Granted, Infernape doesn't switch in well to much, but when it's in, it has the capability of putting some good damage.

[@mariomythes2807]

I hope they’re doing something special for Infernape soon. It deserves some much needed attention, and desperately calls for a new form and overall buff

[@josemou6172]

Mega infernape 80 140 80 140 80 120

[@Thor_Prince_of_Asgard1962]

I always thought that Infernape declined due to the arrival of Blaziken's hidden ability in the 5th generation which already seemed strange to me because in the PkSd it is still in the OU tier

[@pokeaimMD]

This is referring to its own metagame, not gen 5 and on

[@senny-]

Yeah, people still play Gen 4 meta in Showdown.

[@PaulSmith-nb6md]

@@pokeaimMD But the video states why he fell off after Gen 4 so how is it about his time in gen 4?

[@BlaqueT]

​@Paul Smith rewatch the video, it's all talking about Gen 4

[@thebestworst8002]

@@PaulSmith-nb6md it’s titled why it fell off IN gen 4.

[@UncleJrueForTue]

Guerilla Tatics with a regional Infernape form could fix the power issue while being good flavour. Kinda like how Street Fighter character's Tsatsui No Hado gives them insane power at the cost of them fighting Like A Demon.

[@boop53]

this video makes me wonder what heavy duty boots would be like pre gen 8

[@spotsthecat7913]

Moltres would be in UUBL, and Zard in UU I guess. And lots of Pokemon will be more viable in higher tiers

[@Regiroc_Ciroc]

Dude gen 5 sprites are amazing, it brings out a lot out of the Pokémon and their designs

[@NobodyDungeons]

And now it’s just a victim of power creep. Not strong enough to ohko, not bulky enough to set up, and not fast enough to outspeed.

[@jaguwa4816]

Infernape was my GOAT when gen 4 came out. Still one if my favourite Pokemon

[@VALDiesel01]

Loving the quality of these shorts!!! Even the newest pokemon use gen 5 sprites! Very cool

[@drazzthespazz1496]

These shorts are such high quality aim. Props to you

[@Cultural-zp5mw]

chimchar was my first starter ever, infernape is and will always be one of the coolest pkmons in my books

[@hardliketissues7463]

These shorts are fantastic man

[@aureliamastergoomba1278]

Then we have Ash’s Infernape, which is canonically overpowered

[@MikeXeno365]

If Infernape could get any ability to fix it what would y'all pick?

[@pokeaimMD]

Just needs drought. Would be one of the strongest weather setters

[@Oliver-uz1fs]

Adaptability, is fast, have the movements it needs, but is not strong enough Sheer force is also a nice idea

[@siberiangopnik]

Gorilla tactics

[@ayubious]

@@siberiangopnik but it monke

[@mrcalvinelm]

Not sure of the ability fixing anything but I'd love me either a protean or technician clad fire monkey 😅 son goku need some new toys

[@MerynMTG]

Sash lead ape was always my jam. Staple of my OU teams. Fake Out to brake sashes. Taunt for opposing rocks. Stealth Rocks pretty much for free. And CC for damage. ALWAYS a consistent lead that you can't really counter. I would use ape again in a heartbeat if he came back.

[@dustindean4618]

Hmmmmmmmm........ any ghost type ever......

[@INTJ791]

overheat?

[@CodenameUg570]

Petition for Ape to bring it back to the glory days, we start by Using Cb Eq for Nidoqueen 😂😂

[@pokeaimMD]

Still eats lol

[@overland_brew8197]

​@@pokeaimMD a max attack banded infernape eq does up too 75% to a max defense nidoqueen so that isn't really eating it

[@ssswag]

​@@overland_brew8197 you have cracked the gen4 ou meta, adamant banded infernape will run rampant and sweep teams now

[@overland_brew8197]

@@ssswag probably not since infernape still has a few problems rn so till the meta game changes to focus a bit less on bulk again he will (unfortunately) stay on the side lines

[@darthhydreigon820]

@@overland_brew8197 well... throwing out eq means ur not clicking ur stab, and if nidoqueen runs protect then ur doomed anyway, esp if smth else protects like clef

[@jamiewilliams5309]

Punching Gloves would be interesting on Infernape as it gets Iron Fist. It’d remove contact from punching moves (so Nidoqueen wouldn’t be able to poison to for instance or no rocky helmet damage) and it gets a bunch of punching moves. It’d make thunder punch just short of 100 damage. Not sure whether it’d be 97.5 (75x1.3) or 99 ((75x1.2)x1.1) but close enough in terms of damage. Stab fire punch being kinda’ nutty also at near 150 damage (less than blitz but still hefty) It’s pretty fast at 108 speed and gets SD.

[@brandonmariomanfanxd]

Whether he sucks or not, he’s my favorite. Monkeys are my favorite animal.

[@Stormfin]

I'm still mad that I went to all that work making like thirty Timid Chimchar with Vacuum Wave in HG to move them up to Gen VIII, only to find out that Sword and Shield don't have him, and BDSP removed legacy moves. Almost two years, gone. Thank you.

[@seanfox1038]

Joey these videos are beyond excellent

[@robertgray3710]

Start ape and have good mons to back it. It has amazing potential being relatively quick and with the hidden ability where it’s punch based moves do more damage (I think it’s moves that punch so would cc count there or no.) but having a defog in duos a glimmora to clear hazards and even starting ape gives an edge since most legendaries I don’t think will be legal when home drops but ape might as well be meaning less threats, remember, you can’t lose if everything they have is dead

[@diablokiller5819]

some pokemon arent chosen over advantages or disadvantages , they are just taken from love and special feel of nostalgia

[@mugenshiratori6825]

Yeah well this is why TEAMS exist! Nobody is gonna come in with just an Infernape on the team!

[@leveraction1054]

Icing on the cake? Nah, more like last nail in the coffin. R.I.P monke

[@paulsteaven]

RIP best fire pokemon in Gen 4.

[@what.are.you.doing.stepbro]

No its not. Heatran is milesss better

[@paulsteaven]

I mean without counting legendaries and mythicals of course, just a monkey, a horse, and a dog.

[@what.are.you.doing.stepbro]

@@paulsteaven Well Magmortar still hits way harder than Infernape

[@paulsteaven]

@@what.are.you.doing.stepbro not as accessible as the other 3 tho.

[@what.are.you.doing.stepbro]

@@paulsteaven stop making excuses lol

[@a1one-w4c]

still my fav

[@tungieuhoa5509]

My people 🥲

[@smb-c3po]

It's still an official part of my Sinnoh team which includes Blissey as a member, I only have Diamond Version and the only other option for a Fire-type is Ponyta.

[@drkpmnair]

It's one of the best pokemon to have in a playthrough and this video is about competitive

[@Pr0ject_Dusk]

I remember getting a lot of mileage out a physical mixed set that used Overheat. Did really well for the most part as long as I kept the mindset of knowing that my Infernape isn't the sweeper. Wouldn't mind making another Infernape in S/V for nostalgia sake.

[@joshuaguzman6211]

Unfortunately the slides weren’t invented yet so someone threw some rocks in its path

[@shadesonbroadway]

I ran slack off on it, worked pretty well with the residual chip damage.

[@gamerhero9559]

It's cool that he went meta to C tier to meta again from DPPt to SV.

[@kenxiong9776]

that's why you use more than ONE pokemon

[@dnkspnk146]

Infernape still the goat as a sleeper threat

[@wezen89]

Didn't know people are actually running Nidoqueen in OU back in the day. Really interesting tbh

[@yeet8036]

It's actually recent discovery, nidoqueen wasn't used much when dpp was current gen.

[@hppern3971]

Nidoqueen & Clefable are still technically in lower tiers since the tiers locked, but after Gen 5 released Gen 4 kept developing & those started to be run far more often.

[@H.yeon_su]

Bro really went from top dog to just straight dog

[@BigHardThrobbin]

That’s why they should give the gen 4 starters some new forms. They really forgot about them

[@ECAPS.]

Infernape is severely crippled Four Moveslot Syndrome and way too fragile to tank hits. I remember using it to setup up rocks and just uturn around lol

[@Zoogore6777]

Mine has always been strong enough even in later generations without even being a lv 100 for most of them. I stand by him leading my team when permitted even now.

[@2l84me8]

Run a mixed set with hazard support. It’ll probably work.

[@RiruKrypto_]

Never would’ve thought Nidoqueen with poison point was a thing.

[@BeastOrGod]

I loved my Lead Infernabe. Fake Out, Close Combat, Overheat and Stealth rock with sash.

[@devonoliver8896]

Here's hoping it gets a buff this gen

[@Oerbyss022]

OH WOAH NO WAY IT'S LIKE THERE'S A COUNTER TO LITERALLY EVERY POKEMON EVER FOR EVERY GEN

[@Oerbyss022]

Click bait irrelevant video. Let's instead call this series: ____'s counter in ____ generation.... Infernape will always be top tier in competitive.

[@bart1591]

Regardless if it did fall off infernape and it's line will always be my favourite pokemon/line and I love it still to this day.

[@Shing_]

I would say Infernape seems to having slighty more success atm with the recent SPL having a strong showcase of it

[@sapphireblue6]

still my favorite pokemon

[@emceechupitheundying5692]

*insert False Swipe Gaming refrence here*

[@catisalive42]

you should talk about torterra now that it gets headlong rush

[@thetreyceratops]

As a Torterra fan, hearing about Infernape falling off brings me great pleasure

[@bharathia27]

I used Infernape as a Special Attacker in Platinum

[@fulltimeslackerii8229]

fire moves to hit steel when close combat just doesn’t do the trick

[@PANTHERESSDARK]

doesn’t matter i still love him

[@maranonicolo4168]

Good visual effort

[@SgtSalamander]

people forget that running special on infernape was viable with sunny day, solar beam and miracle seed.

[@goGothitaLOL]

104 Offenses to be exact no wonder it depends on Choice Band and Life Orb

[@RockHoward256]

Yeah, even for DPP standards it's way too low

[@grizzlyscalp9506]

Yeah it's a shame.

[@checkeraj1971]

To win again the opponents need to forget

[@Official_ViperYT]

And then gen 6, where I was outshined by da chicken, which gained a mega evolution which always had speed boost ability.

[@Mega_Tron6891]

I read infernape, but my brain filled in annihilape and I was like... it fell off because he wasn't there

[@alexisreal]

I always thought it was strange that a pokemon with 104 offensives was considered a powerful wallbreaker, plus its 108 speed isnt that much faster than most pokemon. I guess its lack of power finally did it in in DPP.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

It basically fits the same niche as Greninja, good attack and special attack and good speed with excellent coverage, the main difference is that Greninja is decently faster and hits harder with coverage due to Protean and it’s base typing and movepool allowed to be relevant in the power crept later gens while Inferno was eventually outclassed completely

[@lordinfernape4753]

108 speed for gen4 standards is actually pretty fast

[@INTJ791]

108 in gen 4 is fast, speedy garchomp only have 102 speed

[@lordinfernape4753]

@@Dell-ol6hb Infernape wasnt outclassed, it just became less viable Infernape became outclassed in BW OU by Blaziken

[@Azusashusband]

What Infernape was in Gen 4 is what Iron Valiant is in gen 9

[@AbsentMindedA]

still OU but yeah

[@delion9889]

In a 1v1 when you are unsure of your oponente team , and as long as you don’t play infernape first, then you could catch your opponent with their pants down

[@CampCounselerSteve]

Infernape was absolute fire back when half of teams ran skarm bliss. But shit changes.

[@TrueHavoc13]

i like that tyraniitar is good despite it's typing

[@mohamedzoulali5755]

Bro did the reverse Blaziken

[@Aditya-ll1zq]

explain terms like wall, tank, wallbreaker, etc. as you explained the smogon tiers

[@sadowphoenix01]

tank is blissey, a pokemon that's just made to survive whatever is thrown at it while whittling down opponents with hazards or status ect. wall breaker is pretty much as it says. infernape is a wall breaker to blissey because blissey is weaker on the physical defense side. and tank is a mon that can both take powerful hits while dealing powerful hits, this one is a bit more vague depending on the team a lot of mons can fill this role. think dragonite. tanks usually have very well rounded stats with maybe a single bad stat to make up for it like speed

[@hykalia7650]

I feel like if Blaziken had 100 base speed from the start it would’ve probably been top tier since it COULD beat nidoqueen and Maria’s with coverage like earthquake and shadow claw/night slash. Gen three would’ve been hilarious for a 100 base speed Blaziken tho 😂

[@klein_Lan]

Then it may lose speed boost

[@GhostKing630]

Well you can hit it with an earthquake and knock it out without making physical contact

[@NoWayJose24]

Infernape's probably my favorite starter right next to greninja

[@twitchardofficial]

This is so sad since Infernape is my favorite starter and second favorite Pokémon of all time 😢

[@dennypan3090]

I mean Infernape with Bulk up and Drain punch, Hidden ability Iron Fist and punching gloves could sweep nowadays even against Nidoqueen it could tank some damage

[@Cheese-ho2ui]

It's sad cause the chimchar line is my favorite starter by far

[@The_Psycho_Red_Ranger]

This is why I stop playing DPP OU in Pokémon Showdown; I instead focus on DPP Ubers.

[@Diorske]

this is proof that even if u give a pokemon good stats movepool ability and typing it can still not be as good with other contenders/walls. but tera type ghost or Fire Fighting Ice Electric will make it a good versatile wallbreaker again with good punching moves and iron fist itll be hard to predict what tera it is.

[@cobracomandor2234]

I remember this seems like yesterday ahhh my hp bar dropping 4 five minutes

[@providence1517]

Yeah, I feel a lot of Infernape's hype came from the anime, and the fact that till Platinum, it was only one of two Fire types you could find in the main story in Sinnoh

[@CGPTrainer]

Infernape will still be top dog in my heart

[@SteveScapesYT]

DPP Nape: Everything thought it killed everything, until they realized Every passive damage killed it. ADV Zard: Everyone thought it killed nothing, until they realized because passive damage doesn't kill it it has ample chance to kill everything.

[@rekrah8074]

I dont do any competitive battling whatsoever. The Infernape line is tied with the turtwig line for my favorite 3 stage evolutions ever

[@Spitfiregames]

Should make a video about Talonflame in gen 6 and the rise of cool counter sets like rocky helmet Garchomp.

[@LycannCrimson-io7sp]

Don't need those. EARTHQUAKE then infernip or whatever that pokemon name is automatically die

[@Kurtoise100]

Leftovers was for Sandstorm damage and Expert Belt was for Life Orb damage

[@adilrahman1142]

How can you use Leftovers to shrug off Life Orb damage? 🤔

[@spencer2113]

The sound effect that happens about 5 times a second really distracts from the video

[@rangerslayer2260]

I stopped using Chimchar as my starter since I knew I would be at a disadvantage for the first gym battle lol

[@anerrorhasoccurred8727]

Not really if you know literally any fighting type moves.