Why is Babel SO Polarizing?

[@jerometrembley1408]

I realized that the major problem I had with this book was that I wanted more of it.

[@manishpaudel5084]

THANK YOU. mistborn and babel got me into reading fantasy and I absolutely loved babel and I find some of the criticisms of babel VERY weird.....will be sending this video instead of shouting at them for an hour.

[@nora77745]

I think that Letty is the reason this book’s reviews are so polarised. The fact that there wasn’t a white saviour in shining armour that would make them feel good about themselves didn’t sit right with them.

[@KevynAmezcua]

I'm convinced a lot of the naysayers are just Letty.

[@goatfantasybooks]

🤣

[@vednair7951]

Loved the vid, will def check out RFKs work (prob gon start with Poppy War tho) after I finish reading the Eye of the World

[@MCArt25]

"being against colonialism is actually racist" has got to be the dumbest take coming out of the reactionary tuber/toker sphere so far

[@stephensimpson1963]

Nice discussion. I decided to read this book due to your high praise, but I DNF-ed it after about 20%. I have read the poopy war trilogy and did not really enjoy those either. But to each their own ! Plenty of other books out there!

[@TheHugeMitch]

I also had an issue with the agency of the main characters after the halfway point of this book. With the exception of Letty, all of their decisions felt like they were motivated by plot instead of character. At first I felt like that was a flaw, but now I'm thinking it's a feature of the narrative that Letty is the only one who has any real choices to make after Canton.

[@goatfantasybooks]

interesting take.

[@sazerye]

Love the discussion, love Babel and love R F Kuang

[@caz3995]

I felt like none of these comments properly represent the common consensus around babel for those who don't like it. This reddit comment I found seems to summarise a lot of the arguments that I have heard against Babel and it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it: The most serious problem was that I hated the characters. I didn't feel like any of them were sympathetic, with all the protagonists being insufferable "well actually" types obsessed with their own cleverness but really making very shallow points about whatever topic is under discussion. All the "arguments" presented by the narrative as persuasive and clever, that the characters get so excited about and nerdgasm over, have that same "you can't prove something with wordplay" feeling of fundamental wrongness as the ontological argument for the existence of god. They are sophists who think of themselves as geniuses - and worst of all, the narrative never calls them out on it. The villains were even worse, all of them hilariously one dimensional, cardboard cut-outs. I also hated the magic worldbuilding, which felt enormously self-congratulatory ("Isn't language amazing? Look how clever and brilliant I, an author, am for being so good at it!). And worst of all, for something said to be so rigourously researched, it was a pretty poor representation of the modern consensus as to how language works. It's like the author was writing in a pre-Chomsky universe. I found the prose overly self-referential, too chatty, too "Little did he know that later he would come to realise that..." type of Victorian, "here's spoilers for the rest of the story" writing. As for the politics, I was very disappointed. The blurb promised that the story would tangle with a thorny dilemma of picking between two difficult decisions. A trolley problem, as it were. But the narrative never really entertains the idea that there is a legitimate choice between them and wholly endorses one over the other as if it were the obvious truth with no counterpoints. It is a simplistic and juvenile polemic, not a deliberate and careful consideration of a complex topic. You cannot be considered to have engaged deeply with a subject if you gloss over and belittle the arguments against your position rather than treating them seriously and giving them respect. from u/A_Balrog_Is_Come

[@manishpaudel5084]

First para - not finding the carecters sympathetic is a bit weird to me.....3 of 4 of the core group were ripped out of their home country to go to a place that they really did not want to and are treated like 2nd class citizens. (did not want to because if there was no white people's intervention during robin's and ramy's family, I doubt they would've left their country). the smartass thing i dont get AT ALL. ramy and Letty are smartasses but the other 2??? nope. and I dont remember the exact moment of the narrater calling out the characters but that is such weak criticism..."worst of all, the narrative never calls them out on it. " implies that it would have been better if the wrong arguments that characters put out should not be pushed back on???? . ok the second para is so fucking stupid like it says it is a poor example without any valid examples. and I am not sure what you mean self congratulatory???? we are in robin's perspective and it is pretty clear that he is very fascinated by it at the start and that is what we read....this para seems like the writer has a hate boner for rf kwang and absolutely nothing else. The magic is definitely underutilized which is a very very valid criticism but everything else???? the third para I can get why the op might be mad....it did not bother me but it might bother some people. the fourth para weird as fuck.....the book is about the nessecity of violence and that is the debate rf kwang wants to put forward. robins end of book explosion will have MASSIVE consequences to the rich douches but it is VERY CLEARLY IMPLIED that is will affect the general public also.... I really dont want to be in the same room as the person who wrote this.

[@manishpaudel5084]

an example of the last point is the fact that the people who lost their jobs will be able to go back to work but such drastic decrease in advancement is bound to have people be overworked.....also since England's reserves are fucked now, the other countries might fuck England up in the war that england wanted to start. which will obviously kill people..

[@anandakar7978]

I am 14. Is it appropriate for me to read?

[@goatfantasybooks]

Yes

[@Thatfanatic]

yh i just turned 15 and am loving it

[@supersuit5790]

Moves to a majority white country > screams white privileged

[@goatfantasybooks]

She was 4 when her parents brought her to the us. She is american. U r racist.

[@supersuit5790]

@@goatfantasybooks China is one of the most powerful countries in the world, with more Asians, yet, people complain about white-rule even though there's less whites than Asians.

[@missyaman7053]

This is one of the dumbest comments I have read in a while. Lmao 💀

[@MCArt25]

Is born in a majority white country > so fragile he breaks whenever anybody mildly criticizes the society he was brought up in

[@Urnansfavorite_]

This comment screams privileged white person