Why is our upper atmosphere cooling?

We've all heard about the warming of our atmosphere, but now we're being told it is cooling as well! How come? Apparently it's all to do with how the different layers of our atmosphere react to incoming sunlight and outgoing infrared light. Research now shows that cooling in the upper layers could be jeopardising satellite orbits and opening up a new ozone hole above the arctic. So what's going on??
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Center for Behavior and Climate.
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Research Links
Simon Clark - Why the sun cannot be behind global warming
• Why the sun CANNOT be ...
Space Debris Animation
• Space debris: infamous...
Main paper - Santer et al
www.pnas.org/d...
Manabe and Wetherald
phys.org/news/...
Article in Yale Environment 360 by Fred Pearce
e360.yale.edu/...
GHG Gases shrinking the atmosphere
phys.org/news/...
iopscience.iop...
Arctic Ozone research paper
www.nature.com...
UN Montreal protocol video
• The Hole - A film on t...
Check out other KZbin Climate Communicators
zentouro: / zentouro
Climate Adam: / climateadam
Kurtis Baute: / scopeofscience
Levi Hildebrand: / the100lh
Simon Clark: / simonoxfphys
Sarah Karvner: / @sarahkarver
Rollie Williams / ClimateTown: / @climatetown
Jack Harries: / jacksgap
Beckisphere: / @beckisphere
Our Changing Climate : / @ourchangingclimate
Engineering With Rosie / engineeringwithrosie
Ella Gilbert / drgilbz
Planet Proof / @planetproofofficial

[@ThatOpalGuy]

I appreciate the lack of ads and sponsorships. many thanks to you AND your supporters.

[@christinavuyk2026]

Seconded 😄

[@alanhat5252]

+1

[@HopefullyUnoptimistic]

As someone who semi-regularly contributes to the SponsorBlock database, I see no reason to bother here. No burying the lede, patreon info at the end where it belongs rather than randomly in the middle of the video, and even the debatable bit about simon's channel and book probably doesn't count as promotionla as it's 100% topical. There isn't even any audio or flashy junk with your patreon cut-in graphic. I have to applaud your integrity.

[@TG-rf2iu]

That’s why you get KZbin premium. It’ll change your life

[@ThatOpalGuy]

@@TG-rf2iu yeah, no, youtube makes enough money off of me without me wasting more money.

[@justenoughtobedangerous8596]

Another brilliant video with the normal well placed degree of sarcasm and pessimism. Thank you

[@jrrarglblarg9241]

I’ve only recently discovered this channel and that mix was a big part of the draw.

[@InfoSponge101]

Bill gates plans to block out the sun. Canadian fires seems like the cheapest option or geoengineering

[@JustHaveaThink]

Glad you enjoyed it :-)

[@alanhat5252]

@@JustHaveaThink we definitely do :-)

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

This cretin traffickes in scare tactics. Disgusting.

[@jonathangold2087]

Appreciate all the new information you provide us with in your podcasts. You are bringing some much needed rationale to this relatively complex subject matter. In doing so, you are making it easier to get an understanding as to what is going on around us, day to day. Appreciate all your efforts, keep up the good work!

[@stringlarson1247]

I'd substitute 'relatively " with 'mind-numbingly' . :)

[@rogerbarton1790]

Hats off for all the ploughing through reports that you do. I'd be reaching for the bottle after 5 minutes of starting to read one, although I'd watch videos on technical subjects all day long.

[@pwrighter]

Better keep that hat on of you’re in the northern hemisphere.

[@redelf1968]

Your presentations are fantastic.

[@bobgnarley1]

Interesting as always. You're doing a fantastic job Dave, very much appreciated!

[@seakayakhongkong5424]

As always, love the tone and the facts.

[@skihck]

Thank you for your work!

[@JustHaveaThink]

My pleasure! Thanks for your support. Much appreciated :-)

[@ryanreedgibson]

You're videos are so undervalued. It's one of the few reasons why I even come to YT.

[@mikemellor759]

I’m grateful you provide these explanations although they are sometimes above my level!

[@KarenPensak]

Thanks!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks for your support Karen. Much appreciated :-)

[@paulmurgatroyd6372]

I do appreciate the love and reverence shown to the technologies of yesteryear. 🙂

[@PhilipX2030]

Thank you Dave for keeping us in the loop. My favorite channel

[@Taomantom]

No one approaches the end of the world with your flair and wit. Thanks!!

[@06howea1]

The best video you've EVER made, 100%. Distinct lack of conjecture and opinion, just straight FACTS. That is what I like.

[@AnitaCorbett]

What a wonderful video- it certainly made me think ! Wonderful content

[@pixelfrenzy]

Who does all your motion graphics, Dave - is it you? I'm always impressed by the amount of work that must have gone into them.

[@laletemanolete]

My thoughts exactly. One can do so much with PowerPoint, but Dave's illustrations are out of the park!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks Chris. I do them myself, yes. I use the Adobe Creative Suite, including Photoshop, After Effects and Premiere Pro.

[@laletemanolete]

@@JustHaveaThink daaaaaaamn!!!

[@pixelfrenzy]

@@JustHaveaThink Kudos! That's a lot of work. I guess you have the workflow down for things like papers on the table in 3D getting highlights etc... makes a big difference to the production values of your videos.

[@PascalHartig]

@@JustHaveaThink I'd love to get a behind the scenes look at some point. Maybe as a Patreon special?

[@SageRosemaryTime]

This increased my understanding . Thank You .

[@horst4439]

I tend trying to explain the colder Stratosphere maybe a little too simplistic, but more hands on. Try to imagine a sleeping bag, which keeps you warm even in extreme cold. There it's kind of a quality inidicator if it keeps being quite cold at the outside surface. This means most of the heat remains inside to your advantage. In this very case the advantage to be inside, where it gets _slighly_ too warm, appears to be quite limited.

[@DrSmooth2000]

Yes, why should take your coat off as soon as enter any heated space.

[@benkeegan9966]

Always informative, forever grateful, delightful, Kutgw!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Many thanks!

[@madcow3417]

Let us re-introduce CFCs so that the hole in the ozone layer over the Antarctic opens. This will balance out the hole in the ozone above the arctic so the earth doesn't become top heavy and fall over.

[@theactualbajmahal833]

You mean like when Captain Jack Sparrow had everyone run back and forth between starboard and port in order to capsize the Pearl back into the living world?

[@rogerbarton1790]

Brilliant - the two holes would induce a through-draft, washing all the CO2 out into space.

[@justmenotyou3151]

The earth is not flat so it will not "fall over". It is round so it will start to roll. 😊

[@UK75roger]

That's very funny! Thanks!

[@donmunro1231]

Earth rolling across the universe - blue ball, top pocket! 😂

[@stringlarson1247]

These are fantastic, thank you.

[@louisdiedricks7110]

While having replaced CFC's with HFC's has had a restorative effect of ozone layer; it is important to note that CFC's still contribute approximately 3% of the damage to the ozone layer that CFC's had. Take this into account that until the 1970's, the industrialized nations of the world accounted for over 90% of CFC emissions. China and India combined accounted for less than 10% of CFC emissions. So today when you factor in billions of new people who have air conditioning and refrigeration; even though the refrigerant in use today is only 3% as destructive to the ozone as CFC's were, there is well over 10 times the amount of refrigerants in use today than in the 1970's.

[@w.o.jackson8432]

Good point, we need to prevent India and China from growing and using refrigeration to really solve this problem.

[@undernetjack]

What?! You mean Dupont's patent on refrigerant expired and they lobbied to have it labelled 'greenhouse gas' to keep other competitors from using it, all while selling it's 3 other 'new' chemicals they just got patents on. Capitalism NOT climate. Gullible much?

[@jaykanta4326]

@@undernetjack What a stupid conspiracy theory devoid of any evidence.

[@jaykanta4326]

@@undernetjack CFCs weren't labeled a GHG. They're not. There is massive amounts of research showing the exact mechanisms by which CFCs get to the upper atmosphere and bind to O3. JFC, how do you people manage daily life being this ignorant?

[@paulsnow]

@@jaykanta4326 Let’s take a look at the most extreme case: chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Compared to carbon dioxide, CFCs can produce more than 10,000 times as much warming, pound for pound, once they are in the air. MIT News. I don't give links. You tube will ban me. You can google.

[@figeluren]

Love your channel! Thank you!

[@manickn6819]

This was a more interesting video than your normal one with "game changers".

[@Terminator484]

I appreciate that you duplicate any links in the description for stuff that might be added in the video as annotations. Annotations do NOT work in all browsers or with all settings, so it's great to have a backup.

[@yeetyeet7070]

Great shoutout to Simon Clark

[@PaulWetStuff]

Great video! Clear concise with good references to contrarian falsehoods

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

people lie but sun doesn't CO2 still irrelevant

[@u.jayaprakashraju3218]

Thanks for your amazing vedio....i am upper atmosphere scientist, i appreciate your efforts in bringing science towards to reach public...l also motivate to work on this new topic of ozone hole

[@u.jayaprakashraju3218]

Yes...its my area of study

[@alayneperrott9693]

Thanks for introducing this complex topic. A related topic under current discussion is: are we going to get more cold Arctic outbreaks caused by reversals of the circulation in the northern winter stratosphere?

[@UnskilledGrappler]

@@TheRealCheckmate How dare you

[@rubensantos557]

we can't even comprehend what these changes can do to the stability of a planet, so many interactions that make up our climate (and has been so different in the past) the more we model and try to predict the more things we find!

[@MichaelRada-INDUSTRY50]

Dear David, thank you for the next interesting THINK. Let me correct one number, namely the volume of space debris in the orbit. According to NASA, there are 170.000 000 pcs till 10 cm, 750.000 10-30 centimeters and 80.000 + above 30 cm of size

[@JustHaveaThink]

Thanks Michael.

[@davidarchibald50]

Thanks mate. It must be my depressive nature...I have subscribed...excellent stuff.

[@tinkertaylor4447]

I always love your videos but you ruined my day with this one 😊 god knows what surprises the earth has for us as a result of our great atmospheric experiment.

[@JustHaveaThink]

Sorry!

[@debbiehenri345]

Yes, with every video I'm left thinking - well, that's yet another one we have to worry about. But that only goes to demonstrate that we should all be fully on board with changing our ways and making greater efforts to lower our carbon footprint, with the help of our governments and more effort made by industry (which never seems to do a great deal very quickly). We just don't know what other 'unexpected effect' this planet is going to throw in our direction if we don't change, and there are potentially very many more 'unexpected effects' out there ready to pounce.

[@pauljames1873]

Thank you for yet another great video.

[@FrancisFjordCupola]

The process where one collision in space, leading to more debris and more collisions and eventually so many collisions that all the debris inhibits space flight... is called the Kessler syndrome.

[@debbiehenri345]

To be honest, I don't think that would be a bad thing - for there to be so much space debris caused by a cascade of multiple collisions that it literally 'imprisons' us on this planet. (Serves us right). It might focus more organisations/individuals and their money towards cleaning up the planet they all live on - instead of continuing with this dream of going off and inhabiting Mars. It's going to take centuries to clean up the mess we've made, and it's already getting much harder to do some of the restorative work - for instance: droughts, heatwaves and floods negatively affecting tree-planting efforts.

[@rpower1401]

I just wanted a nice relaxing break video, instead discover a hole in the ozone layer is opening above my location! Monday's Suck! lol Great video other than that detail.

[@DrSmooth2000]

Better now!

[@TheFRiNgEguitars]

Great presentation, How do we know CO2 and O3 depletion are connected, as a cause-effect, and not simply concurrent? Not that we should not be concerned and investigate, what is the mechanism?

[@DrSmooth2000]

CO2 protects O3 from other molecules but not much feedback from O3 to help make CO2

[@steveberkson3873]

Excellent,informative,rundown(or up 😋) ~ like to see a piece on other factors like geoengineering and its effects.

[@waynewallace10]

While the northern hemisphere is heavily populated, I believe peak human density is somewhere near (but below) 30 degrees north and keeps reducing as you go further north. My question is what latitudes are being impacted by this new artic ozone hole? Do we need to warn folks living north of 45? 60? 75?

[@farmergiles1065]

From the circle he drew around the Arctic, it looks like something between 45 and 50 degrees.

[@waynewallace10]

@@farmergiles1065 hmmm... I live near 47, seems kind of close. But I expect there may be less impact near the edges compared to the middle.

[@farmergiles1065]

@@waynewallace10 I would expect so. But look carefully at the circle. The British Isles are all clearly within, and London is above 51 degrees latitude. Moreover, the west coast of the U.S. seems to have portions within it also. The Canadian border is at 49 degrees, and Portland Oregon is between 45 and 46 degrees. I think Spokane Washington (inland) is 47 degrees and a fraction. So it's only the northernmost strip of the US that would be inside, but most of Canada is definitely there. (Toronto is under 43 degrees; London, Ontario is slightly less than 43, so the Great Lakes section in southern Canada dips outside the circle, I think.) Paris, France and Vienna, Austria are definitely in, while Milan, Italy is on the line. Makes one think, doesn't it?

[@martincotterill823]

Great video, cheers Dave!

[@JustHaveaThink]

Cheers Martin.

[@therealhellkitty5388]

I’m wondering if the ozone hole is related to the slowing of the thermohaline current. I was reading this morning that the slowing is much more apparent in the North Atlantic due to fresh water from Greenland. Seems to me that if the trade winds slow and there is greater open water above 5*N latitude, that’s got to impact something above as well as below.

[@robertrichard6107]

A new factor I became aware of is micro rubber particles in the northern hemisphere from vehicles landing on ice in Greenland increasing sunlight absorption according to an old Dorset/ Inuit type up there in Denmark territory that was in a YT presentation. He claims it is bigger factor then carbon, also melting Arctic Ocean ice.

[@JosephNordenbrockartistraction]

You do good work sir.

[@one_field]

So... what is the actual effect, if the upper layers are colder than before? Apart from impact on satellites. Does the surface temperature get colder or warmer as a result? Is the denser atmosphere consequently more insulating and does it repel more stellar radiation? Or does it merely trap the heat inside? I think this video is a great Part 1 but it needs a Part 2... Thank you so much for making it!

[@jaykanta4326]

It validates the models that projected that with increased lower atmospheric warming from CO2, specifically, the upper troposphere would cool as a result of more IR wavelengths being trapped lower down.

[@one_field]

@@jaykanta4326 That doesn't actually answer the question... what is the impact of the cooler troposphere, after it occurs? The video covered how it occurs very nicely, but left the results of it after that pretty much to be guessed, except for the increased orbit of satellites.

[@jaykanta4326]

@@one_field Not much, just validation for the models, which means the earth is on a very difficult trajectory for us.

[@girowinters]

If it's anything like the effect of the hole in the ozone above the Antarctic -more cancer for us humans and more trouble for our fellow inhabitants of this fragile earth

[@bramvanduijn8086]

"Does the surface temperature get colder or warmer as a result?" both the warming of the surface and the cooling of the higher layers are the result of increased CO2 concentration. They're proof of what was predicted, it is not new information, just confirmed old information. So if you want to know what the result will be it is what was predicted what would happen with increased CO2 concentration: higher sea levels, less predictable weather, more desertification.

[@keith8346]

great job as always

[@paperburn]

Can your next video be about geo engineering and the injection of the lower level of troposphere up to the stratoshere for a global cooling effect.(not related to the cooling theory stipulated in this video.

[@veganislandradio9957]

Nice one! Thanx Dave!

[@AntManBee19]

Just another nail in the coffin I guess. I also believe that we have underestimated the coming effects of climate change and they will be here sooner than we thought. Grim!!

[@australien6611]

While we all sit back and watch

[@lorenzoventura7701]

First half a degree took a century to increase and now after just twenty years it is a whole degree warmer. It is plausible that we will cross the 1.5 threshold far sooner than 2040. Now I escape from reality, bye bye.

[@justmenotyou3151]

​@@lorenzoventura7701 We will probably hit it this year or next, being in an el nino year. Then the Temps will fall back a bit and we will then move into 1.5 degree territory permanently.

[@Campaigner82]

@@justmenotyou3151 Super El-Nino as well 😬

[@jockmoron]

There's nothing strange about stratospheric / high atmospheric cooling in a warming planet, in fact, it is a basic part of the whole global warming physics and chemistry. Imaging lying in bed at night. You have a lightweight duvet to cover you. But it's a cold night, and you add another duvet. The heat that would otherwise escape into your bedroom now remains under the covers due to the extra insulation stopping the heat moving fro the hotter to the colder (listen to Flanders and Swann's comic song on the laws of thermodynamics for an explanation) , but obviously the upper part of the duvet must be now be colder. . That's a bit simplistic, but an earth retaining heat must perforce be radiating less if the source of the heat remains the same. .

[@beautifulgirl219]

How about a show on how we can band together and buy our politicians back from the fossil fuel industries that currently own them?

[@SandraBonney]

A novel idea

[@shawnr771]

Thank you for the explanation.

[@markapplejohn4376]

Okay Dave, this week's episode is scary and depressing - Please follow up next week with something that gives us hope. We need the balance!! I watch every week so that we can better understand how we got here and where we are going as the human species...

[@globalwarming382]

I want to know the worst. Dont want to prepare for not so bad.

[@Impackon]

A very good, and sometimes funny, video. Thanks!

[@loudmouthlibertarian1776]

The hole in the Ozone layer that was erroneously attributed to CFCs was actually caused by an Antarctic volcano on Deception Island that ejected mass quantities of sulphur-based compounds into the upper atmosphere, causing the Ozone depletion addressed by blaming the world's best refrigerant. Freon (dichloro-difluoro-methane) was invented in 1890 and put into full production in 1930. It was also used as propellants in hair spray and spray paint, and millions of tons of it were blasted into the atmosphere for forty years with no ill effects. Freon also weighs 4× what average air mix does, so if you had a balloon filled with it, it would tug DOWN around the same as a freshly-filled helium balloon would tug UP due to buoyancy. It's virtually impossible for a single molecule of freon (molecular weight 58) to "float above" the heaviest normal atmospheric element of Nitrogen (molecular weight 14). Besides, even *IF* all those beehive-sporting women spraying gallons of Aqua-Net into their hair WERE the cause of any such ozone depletion, the Ozone depletion would manifest in the latitudes where the release happened due to geostrophic banding. (Think the stripes on the planet Jupiter... North pole atmosphere CAN NOT MIX with equatorial atmosphere due to discrete convection zones!) End result? Air conditioners now must run at MUCH higher pressures than those using Freon, and run for much LONGER in order to cool the same amount. If it takes a modern A/C 15 minutes to cool down a room, then a Freon-based one could do it in 5 minutes, using about ¼ of the electricity needed to run today's pumps. (Higher-pressure pumps are more resistant to rotation than lower-pressure ones, requiring more energy, hence the 4× multiplier instead of the expected 3× multiplier based on run time alone.) Today, HVAC systems are among the largest consumers of electricity, all because we "banned" a very useful chemical that was blamed for volcanic ash effects in a different geostrophic zone. Who needs science? We have the FEELS!!! (The modern "Climate Doom Cult" mantra.)

[@petneb]

Very interesting, thanks.

[@jaykanta4326]

Oh look, another stupid comment devoid of scientific evidence.

[@chrishoff402]

The first Ozone 'hole' was detected over Norway less than a decade after the Ozone layer was discovered, before CFCs. After CFCs were banned naturally occuring Halide emmission from land and oceans were discovered. Still, what's really causing CO2 levels to rise AND Ozone depletion has nothing to do with human activity. Since the Carrington Event of 1859 the Earths magnetic field has been weakening. As that happens, more Solar and Cosmic radiation can get through to ground level. The increasing energy input from space is causing the oceans and land to emit more CO2, there's an extremely tight correlation between magnetic field loss and C02 rise. The Ozone layer is likewise being weakened by the additional solar and cosmic radiation inputting more energy to those Ozone depleting chemicals that are in the upper atmosphere. Nobody wants to talk about the weakening of the Earth's magnetic field and it's the real climate crisis we should be worried about and there's nothing we can do about it.

[@jaykanta4326]

@@chrishoff402 Citations required.

[@jaykanta4326]

@@chrishoff402 How did I know you were a Suspicious0bservers fan?

[@hitreset0291]

I must be... am... old as free-huck given I remember these punch card days shown all too well. Perhaps this is why I am so optimist about the eventual electrification of all that once ran on fossil fuels. A Big👍to all you EV champions. Bring it on!!!

[@h2opower]

It's going to be a tough battle doing away with the fossil fuel industry as they have gotten their tentacles into everything. They have managed to coop many educational systems around the world so they never teach the truth about science anymore and/or just leave a whole lot out of their curriculum. Trust me it's a sad day when you asked someone who just went through a science program taught at college they can't answer this simple question, "How does a plant break the bonds of the water molecules?" or, "Just how does a thunderstorm actually work?" You see once these questions are answered a whole new era of scientific discovery will take place shortly afterwards. But that new science will complete do away with the use of fossil fuel use and those whom have vested interest in seeing that that doesn't happen have made their move a long time ago.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

What you are advocating is denying 3rd world countries the cheap energy we've all had. You're a colonizer.

[@dc37009]

Yes, earth science programs specifically ! Where chem, phys, bio, and ecol all conspire to create the "woke" big picture (lol)! Nice reminder, I think stem vs the book burners; will create sufficient backlash to reinstate a science based curriculum.

[@jaykanta4326]

@@scottslotterbeck3796 Go away, lame denialist.

[@Nonreligeousthiestic]

Hegemony comes before climate change.

[@jemezname2259]

The cooling effect in the upper atmosphere was expected. The cause of global warming is a reduction in heat leaving the planet and going into space. That only happens if the upper atmosphere is cooler. If the upper atmosphere was hotter it would radiate more energy and the planet would cool. So upper atmosphere cooling was always the predicted result.

[@MrSmithwayne]

the cooling effect is going to have a HUGE impact on the polar vortex and we are likely to see increased deep temperature winter events from the vortex as even colder air gets pulled down during winter. As I have always said its not hot temperatures we need to worry about its extreme cold events that last longer and are more intense.

[@svenweihusen57]

This cooling doesn’t affect the vortex as there is quite a distinct border between troposphere and stratosphere. The vortex is a troposphere phenomenon and it will slow down due to the reduction in temperature difference between the poles and the equator.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Thought you were worried about global warming, lol.

[@tikaanipippin]

@@svenweihusen57 Perhaps you should read Simon Clark's 2017 thesis "Quasi-geostrophic influence of the polar stratosphere on the troposphere"

[@Solstice261]

I mean, heat is also worrying, I don't know if you've noticed but summers haven't been what one would call mild lately

[@tikaanipippin]

@@Solstice261 In the UK my memories went back to the mid 50s, when summers seemed short, and on the damp and coolish side, and they began to pick up in the mid-70s with 3 dry years culminating in 2 hot summers in 1975 and 1976. There seemed to be nothing too memorably warm until 1990, when warm summer started at the beginning of May and went on until a hot and summery September. Hot summers were what my parents and grandparents told us they remembered in the years when they were younger in the 1930s. but the UK has weather from primarily, Atlantic south westerlies, which tend to be carried on cyclonic depressions. Some years, like the current 2023, we have stable high pressure from May (following an uncomfortably long and cool spring following a chilly, but unremarkable winter, after several very mild winters overall). The UK has weather, and it can come primarily from 4 directions, the arctic, a thousand miles to the north or the Sahara desert a thousand miles to the south, or we border on an ocean where the wet prevailing winds come from and a continental mass that can give extreme dry cold in winter or extreme dry heat in summer. I suppose this is what our "temperate" climate means - as Queen put it: " Any way the wind blows..."

[@jamesmilne4233]

at 9:25, debris in low earth orbit (leo) will have little impact on TV broadcasting. TV signals are bounced off satellites held in geostationary orbit, which at more than 35,000 km from earths surface is a long way from any atmospheric issues. Leo orbits would require a ridiculous number of satellites to broadcast TV, coupled with tracking dishes to maintain any form of signal, and even then your images would freeze, jitter, and drive people watching completely nuts.

[@barneymm2204]

I thought it was found to be thermospheric expansion due to the sun that brought down those Starlink satellites in January.

[@drchaffee]

The space weather community had warned about the effects of a geomagnetic storm, caused by the sun, which did puff up the thermosphere, which in turn subjected those Starlink satellites to atmospheric drag which brought them down. So, it was space weather interrupting an otherwise cooling thermosphere driven by climate change.

[@mariushegli]

I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.

[@BigDismal]

It’s almost as if scientific facts are separate from political actions :)

[@thunderbearclaw]

Some 50 years ago we were told that the Ozone hole was a result of fluorocarbons in the atmosphere. So we replaced our coolants with non Fluorocarbon ones. Now we are being told that an apparently even bigger ozone hole is due to excess CO2 !

[@brianletter3545]

You write '"Research now shows that cooling in the upper layers could be jeopardising satellite orbits and opening up a new ozone hole above the arctic. So what's going on??" And just which satellites orbit in the 'upper atmosphere'? Somebody is pulling your leg! There are no 'satellite orbits' in the upper atmosphere! When any spacecraft enters the ''upper atmosphere'' it experiences rapidly increasing drag due to friction, just like a shooting star. By careful navigation this 'drag' can be controlled to avoid excessive heating, this enables the satellite (space capsule etc., etc.) to be returned to the surface without burning up. There are plenty of examples of uncontrolled return that killed those on board - Space Shuttle Columbia is one.

[@eliinthewolverinestate6729]

Insulation not only keeps stuff warm but also keeps stuff cool too. A cooler drier planet never goes good for humans. A warmer wetter brighter planet isn't good either. Remember we live in an ice age. Reduced food production and more energies needed come with a cooling planet. A cooler planet also means more plagues and diseases.

[@LuisAldamiz]

But it's not simple insulation, it's hothouse effect: the light gets in, bounces, loses energy, becomes heat (infrared) and then can't escape anymore (or rather much less, to be exact).

[@toughenupfluffy7294]

We live in an interglacial period of the ice age, that is, a warming period. That was even before the Industrial Age started spewing CO2 into the atmosphere. A warming planet could also lead to reduced food production as desertification occurs in previously productive agricultural areas. Tropical plagues and diseases will also increase due to warming, as they are better adapted to warm conditions where previously it was too cold for them.

[@jaykanta4326]

Everything you said was a lie.

[@tikaanipippin]

@@LuisAldamiz But it does escape. The rate of escape is variable, and we do not understand or even know all the parameters that contribute to the variability.

[@LuisAldamiz]

@@tikaanipippin - We (you and me) maybe don't understand every detail but metereologists and other scientists have been understanding those parameters quite well for many decades now and trying to explain that we have a huge problem to no avail (some pretend to listen but do essentially nothing, others are in denial). Now we face the catastrophe and it's surely too late already: famine, fires and general socio-political chaos are ensuing already. Maybe we'll survive but there's a big chance we don't. Maybe rats will inherit Earth from us, maybe it'll be bots.

[@stefanschleps8758]

Thank you. (This gets you my sub.) I think I have skin cancer now. Getting a check up asap! Undoubtedly due to over exposure to UV radiation over the last fifty years. I started warning people about Co2 pollution back in 1970 and no one even shrugged. That was the year of the First Earth Day. Apparently I wasn't alone in my concerns. I now have genuine concerns of my own. I worry Earth Day won't get to its hundredth birthday. This is your problem. Get involved, network, and don't trust the rich or the politicians to do a damn thing. It's up to you! Godspeed.

[@anthonymorris5084]

CO2 is not a pollutant. It's a harmless gas. We exhale it every second. Meanwhile fossil fuels have continuously produced carbon monoxide, a poisonous gas, and never at any time in history has anybody demanded we stop using them.

[@projectpeace]

Hi Dave, thanks for having another think in the right direction. I've been interested in the solar protective influence of terpenes produced by boreal forests & marine phytoplankton. Apparently, about half of the forests & phytoplankton have been lost in the last seventy years. That means half the concentration of atmospheric aerosol terpenes. Since terpenes are known to possess antiviral, anti-fungal properties, it seems logical to theorize there may be some benefit from terpenes (which serve as cloud condensation nuclei) helping to purify Earth’s hydrology. Fewer trees & phytoplankton suggests that less terpenes, fewer cloud condensation nuclei, less solar refractive influence & less water purification. Do you have any insights into the biogenic influence of atmospheric aerosol terpenes? Cheers!

[@pseudonayme7717]

I came looking for an interesting comment rather than the trite, congratulatory comments that are all too prevalent in this comment section, and here you are.👍 It sounds like a very interesting idea and I'm sure there is merit to it, so kudos for bringing it up. I think It makes sense that preserving the natural world would be good for the natural world, and I'm sure there are a myriad of other details like this that are escaping our attention while we put all our efforts into the more obvious detrimental effects of CC.

[@barneymm2204]

Are the Ozone holes following the migrating magnetic poles?

[@LuisAldamiz]

No.

[@toughenupfluffy7294]

Since ozone is diamagnetic, it seems that it should be the case.

[@bramvanduijn8086]

@@toughenupfluffy7294 That would only change the alignment of the ozone molecules, it wouldn't move them. You know how iron filings align with a magnetic field? Same thing.

[@frankjoseph4273]

We have not teached 90° F yet mid June, morns in 50°s, Albuquerque

[@frankjoseph4273]

@grindupBaker we are a mile high here at 37°North latitude. I've never seen it this cool this late. Most grain producing areas in N hemisphere are in droughts except Ukraine with the war

[@frankjoseph4273]

Weather manipulation, indeed !

[@pjssjr]

Meanwhile, COP 28 will be headed by an oil company businessman! YAY!!

[@manoo422]

May as well, the other 27 did nothing about CO2 levels but they have launder $Trillions of tax payers money around the world achieving nothing...Its almost like its a complete scam....

[@DB-pm2vy]

😡🥺😳😣

[@manoo422]

@@DB-pm2vy Are you feeling conned? You should be...you have.

[@australien6611]

​@@manoo422conned about what?

[@Solstice261]

​@@australien6611You know, the event supposed to treat how the world is going to move away from fossil fuels and improve the environment having more representatives against the environment and phase out of fossil fuels than scientists, environmentalists and representatives of countries which are literally sinking and barely use fossil fuels in first place

[@nicholasmills6489]

I’ve been looking at stratospheric cooling. They say there is a correlation with co2 levels. But stratosphere cooling would also occur if our atmosphere was actually cooling. Let me explain. We have removed coolants from the atmosphere which allow warming of land and ocean. In urban heat island zones, there is significant warming and this is affecting significantly our temperature record. Maybe the urban heat island effect and the reduced coolants have affected local temperature to cities so much that distorted temp reading that they no longer reflect actual temperature. To measure the ground temperature is so much harder than measuring stratosphere temp. But our knowledge on stratosphere temp is limited, there is no proxy. If our urban island effect is distorting temps by 1-2.8 degrees in some cases then the warming effect may not be what they say. Urban heat island can add 1.9 to 2.8 degrees c to a temp. It’s not the 10% they say it is.

[@AlexGullen]

Dave is missing the single biggest cause of current ozone depletion in the stratosphere. Nitrous Oxide.

[@manoo422]

It doesnt fit with the propaganda to blame EVERYTHING on CO2 levels...

[@jaykanta4326]

@@manoo422 Hello denialist, stop trolling.

[@manoo422]

@@jaykanta4326 You have your religion, I will stick to facts and science thanks.

[@jaykanta4326]

@@manoo422 Then bring some actual facts and science rather than your standard right-wing talking points. Cite a single paper.

[@TheLosamatic]

@@jaykanta4326 they can’t, they are all just petroleum trolls that don’t care that their people will someday piss on their graves!

[@HistoricalStoriesoftheBi-qm3te]

Dave. You know i enjoy your stuff. You explain well and carry an important message. And i get annoyed by fear mongering. So please keep that at a minimum level. In gona give an example. A: skin cancer comes in various forms. Melanoma used to be very problematic. It is less problematic these days. It is also accepted that sunlight is not the couse for it. So that's one scary fact you can reduce. B. Space debris. What's the big deal? C. There was never a c. You do good work and i like you personally... Even though i never have much to say about anything. Simon (i don't know what mom was thinking)

[@iambiggus]

This reminds me of the Big Oil argument in the late 80's that " More CO2 means greener trees!". Trees can only take in so much CO2. It would be like somebody putting a mask on you, cranking forced compressed air, and demanding you breathe it in 'more'.

[@GerbenWulff]

Actually, plants can take up a lot more CO2 than we have in the atmosphere right now. In greenhouses they feed additional CO2 to increase yields. There is an experiment with the addition of CO2 in the jungle to increase carbon sequestration. And the planet is greening thanks to the additional CO2. It's not nearly enough to offset human emissions though.

[@iambiggus]

@GerbenWulff You are arguing a point that has long been debunked, just FYI. Ecosystems are already showing signs of being over saturated. You don't need to do the research, NASA/Goddard has done it for you, so feel free to look it up.

[@scottslotterbeck3796]

Nuclear is the answer.

[@yancgc5098]

⁠@@iambiggus If the evidence is there then why not send the link? We are still not at a level of CO2 in the atmosphere where any plant has reached its saturation point. Some don’t see any benefit in the CO2 fertilization effect above 600 ppm, some above 800 ppm, and there are plants that can still see an increase in biomass and growth rate at 1,000 ppm. A greenhouse Earth is better for life and biodiversity than the icehouse Earth we’re living in now, and that’s a fact.

[@debbiehenri345]

@@GerbenWulff No. No. No. As a horticultural expert, I can tell you with absolute certainty that extra CO2 does 'not' benefit plants. I'm so tired of this flimsy notion that extra CO2 makes bigger, greener plants and we'll all be happy and safe...not happening so far, is it? What happens when you pump a greenhouse with extra CO2 is plants do grow taller, yes - but also softer, lusher, weaker. That's fine inside a greenhouse, where plants live in a controlled atmosphere: no wind, no storms, no hail, shading when the sun gets too hot, protection against pests and diseases. However... When you try to turn the entire planet into an open greenhouse, those lusher, taller, weaker plants (that have all been genetically programmed 'by Nature' to absorb only so many of each element to help support its structural integrity) are susceptible to all the increasingly violent weather conditions, pests and diseases. More plants are falling prey to many more pathogens 'because' conditions suit those pathogens better, the lusher plants less able to defend themselves against them. For instance: Abies concolor (a conifer) in my garden. For the first time ever, it is now falling prey to a new type of aphid I have never seen around here before. Previously, it was unaffected by pest or disease for 20 years. Now I have problems with this aphid, and all the other Abies concolor in the garden share that susceptibility. This year, Rusts are now appearing on all those plants in the Rubus family - a problem I'd not experienced before. And that's the tip of the iceberg - as new pests and diseases rampage through the environment, to the point of displacing natural species. For example: locally, the Brimstone butterfly has now been displaced by a tent caterpillar that totally defoliates all the Buckthorn (the Brimstone's natural foodplant) in the area, because the lusher growth suits the moth caterpillar, meaning the Brimstone doesn't have a chance. These trees are now dying out, weakened by excessive defoliation. The fact that we have had very, very little rain since March to the point the ground has cracked and dozens of my trees are dying is of great concern (when in fact, Scotland should be a cool, wet country, having at least some rain for around 50 weeks a year). The 40 acre farm field beside me is dead. We don't have the infrastructure to keep our fields watered as much as they now need to be. In the past, we didn't need to. The natural climate used to do all that for us. We don't have as many reservoirs as, obviously, we will need in the future if these droughts continue. How will your taller, greener trees and plants survive here, in England, France, North America if the rain isn't there for them at crucial times of year - because that rain is busy washing the living daylights out of China? You have to think of the bigger picture. We're not talking of a whiff of extra CO2 being of benefit to a few tomato plants in a quiet corner of a country cottage garden - we're talking of a radically altered, increasingly energised weather system smashing through plants ancient and new.

[@steveking4966]

hmm i agree, as an environmental scientist i am celebrating a year without grid connection time to be proactive, after all ther is no downside in using less fossil fuels and the goats are interesting mowers!

[@xenocampanoli815]

I wish someone could do some kinds of range estimates for ecosystem population supportability as the Earth's environment gets destroyed by our lack of responsible stewardship. If people could clearly see that, say our present will not have enough food at year x, or that by year y there may only be enough food on the planet and that in remote climes for say a few million people, or whatever the number is, that kind of presentation would have a better chance to affect policy and perspective than these trickles of reality we now are blessed with.

[@ronkirk5099]

The link between rising atmospheric CO2 levels and O3 depletion in the Arctic is very troubling. We may have to follow Australia's example with our own Slip, Slop, Slap, Seek and Slide skin cancer avoidance campaign.

[@szymonbaranowski8184]

everything is ok no reason to despair except when electricity cost triples

[@rickmalaschenko3046]

Your better off wearing a long sleeve shirt, hat , & staying out of the sun , never a fan sunscreen , it gives users a false sense of safety ,when going out in the sun. Fifteen minutes in the sun down here down under 🦘 will cook you ,,🍀

[@markusmaximus6636]

Wind turbines are worse for the environment and destroy the countryside. Battery storage for renewables alone would destroy the planet. The only way is nuclear.

[@DisOcean8]

youtube is criminal for not giving me updates on any of your new uploads recently! absolute rubbish algorithm lately. regardless, thanks for the think, dave! Simon Clark is a gem of a scientist as well

[@xcuphill]

The rest of the ecosystem can't cover itself up to avoid more harmful UV radiation. If this results in lower agriculture, forest and ocean productivity it is another burden of increased CO2.

[@Flumstead]

Vegetation is doing fine. It continues to be a net absorber of CO2.

[@freedomzvision]

Excellent !

[@ThatOpalGuy]

the earth is a complex mechanism that we dont fully understand.

[@stephenfanthorpe2708]

I agree , if the northern lights are caused by factor of a hole in the outer layer some how and that’s been going on for millennia how can we quantify

[@DB-pm2vy]

@@stephenfanthorpe2708 Well recently the northern lights were seen as far south as midlands UK. Usually they’re much further north. Is this because the ozone thinning has let the solar permeate a much bigger area? 🎉

[@jaykanta4326]

Argument from personal ignorance.

[@stephenfanthorpe2708]

@@DB-pm2vy its quite possible or that the levels of whatever causes the phenomena are higher so the opening is larger , it’s just as possible it’s a natural cycle we don’t understand

[@jaykanta4326]

@@stephenfanthorpe2708 Argument from ignorance is not a scientific argument.

[@CaptainFights]

Please address whether or not there is analysis to show that Earth‘s changing magnetism is or not part of all of this. I trust this channel.

[@ab-td7gq]

Can you make a video for people to have a think about their consumption of animal products explaining the impact it has on the climate as well as the environment?

[@yourcrazybear]

Good luck with trying to convince everyone of a mystical climate crisis.

[@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo]

And rice cultivation, which generates more greenhouse gases than pork, poultry, lamb, mutton and dairy production.

[@ab-td7gq]

@@Pierluigi_Di_Lorenzo Not even close.

[@incognitotorpedo42]

@@ab-td7gq Has someone done an analysis of rice cultivation's effect on GHG? I would expect so. Do you have a link?

[@joewentworth7856]

Food and climate change by sl bridle worth a read. Covering meat cheese milk fruit veg and rice.

[@OperationDarkside]

I feel like you're getting more sarcastic video by video (or maybe my brain started to rot from the UV rays). Can't wait to see your videos in 2030.

[@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475]

Just when you thought you could escape Climate Crisis by moving North...

[@garyjohnson1466]

Interesting as always…

[@ChannelScottify]

Coal is just stored solar power. Beautiful, clean coal.

[@JanMorsø]

try to think

[@LuisAldamiz]

It is but burning it all at once is a very bad idea.

[@Sekir80]

I love that reference!

[@toughenupfluffy7294]

There's nothing clean about coal, although some might say it's beautiful.

[@Sekir80]

@@toughenupfluffy7294 A couple weeks back I'v seen a guy do some tricky stuff with it and it made them really beautiful. I think it was styropyro, but I don't wanna link the video because youtube tends to eat those comments that contains a link.

[@coolkulyk1]

I live in northern Canada. The past 10years weather has been breaking records both cold and hot. Working outside is torture 10months out of 12

[@feylezofriza]

In true Just Have a Think fashion, the video manages to cause alarm over non-issues like the ozone layer and misses the real danger. The biggest issue here is the reduced radiation back to space. Earth loses heat to space mainly through upper atmospheric infrared radiation, which is a function of the upper atmosphere temperature. We will cook down here if the upper atmosphere is getting cooler.

[@Voidapparate]

I like my humans well done. 😋

[@ricklines8755]

And of course, plants don't use ultraviolet light for photosynthesis. UV actually has an inhibitory effect on photosynthesis, slowing it down.

[@charliez7130]

Want to experience what an over exposure to sunlight feels like? Come to Australia!

[@TheMarrethiel]

THANKS

[@derelictor]

Dumb question, so how does the CO2 cools down the higher parts of the atmosphere and creates this huge contrast between the troposphere warming and stratosphere cooling?

[@bedardpelchat]

Are we domed or are we doomed? After the Montreal Protocol (which was an incredible feat in itself) the production of CFC moved from industrial niche of the north to the south. I'm not sure we're keeping track of the continuous production of CFC worldwide.

[@thedamnedatheist]

If the Arctic has the same sort of vortex weather pattern in winter as the Antarctic, it would be logical to see a drop in ozone levels there as well.

[@AisleEpe-oz8kf]

Has anyone tried to reseed the ozone? Are there any places where readings would add to the impetus for an attempt to do so? Sorry. I'm broke.

[@lifewriter7455]

So in other words; the fine balance between different layers in the atmosphere is out of balance, that is: The climate crisis is quite Ambivalent and sort of... Chaotic? This is all very exciting indeed! Such a treat... 🖤😎👍

[@lifewriter7455]

@grindupBaker ever heard of the phenomenon of irony? 😎👍

[@anthonymorris5084]

Data proves that humanity has never been safer, healthier or more prosperous than at any time in history, by any measurement you care to examine.

[@SkepticalTeacher]

Can you possibly do a video about climate change/ozone layer and UVC light reaching the earth? Is this what you are referring to in this video regarding the new hole above the Arctic and skin cancer? Thanks, and sorry if it's a stupid question!

[@punditgi]

Brilliant as always. Well done, sir. 😊

[@brymstoner]

it's always fascinating hearing about the sky and the various layers to it. i often wonder if we could send up a drone with flexible solar on top of it to loiter in one of the middle / upper layers and send back real time data for analysis. maybe that's what weather balloons already do. but then i also wonder, if a battery-powered, solar-charged drone would work, how big could we scale it to?

[@hmgrraarrpffrzz9763]

I don't think it would work that well because the higher you go the thinner the air and the more difficult it is for the drone to ascend and stay at that altitude.

[@brymstoner]

@@hmgrraarrpffrzz9763 fair point. i guess that's why china opted for balloons with little props.

[@badpanda1532]

Please think harder about this. Why don’t planes, helicopters and balloons not already stay at this level? The air is too thin to support them. I think it’s 80 of all air is in the troposphere and planes can’t fly higher than it already. Everything else is just to thin.

[@brymstoner]

@@badpanda1532 you say think harder about it, like it's something that keeps me awake at night. but it isn't. it's just an infrequently recurring passing thought. a wondering. if i were an engineer, then yeah maybe more thought. but nah.