Why is Toyota making hydrogen fuel-cell cars when plug-in electric vehicles are so popular

Large auto manufacturers like Toyota and Honda are expanding outside garden variety hybrids and battery electric vehicles and selling hydrogen fuel cells cars in California. Trouble is there’s only about 45 stations in the entire state. Read more: wapo.st/384uKXE. Subscribe to The Washington Post on KZbin: wapo.st/2QOdcqK
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[@JesseJamesEttebe]

Toyota, Honda and Hyundai should put stations in their dealerships.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Well that would at least show some degree of commitment to hydrogen, but it's not happening is it? The vast majority of EV car dealers in the UK have charging facilities. They're often free for those whom drive the dealer's brand too. Potential buyers need to do their homework if they want avoid buying the wrong car....Hydrogen is a non starter in the UK. Hardly anyone is interested in it as a viable option. In any case, Honda wouldn't do it in the UK. They're pulling out of car manufacture here. Honda cars are not big sellers here. Hyundai and Kia each sell more new cars here than do Honda.

[@Mr00934]

yep. & eveywhere else

[@thomasemond2173]

You can't build such infrastructure near a dealership

[@onthefly7265]

H2 Explosion isnt that Funny

[@KanishQQuotes]

Perhaps they could collaborate on this infrastructure. Maybe together contact with a supplier to setup their stations

[@ronallango]

When I was working in the warehouse, all forklifts are using hydrogen, all operators are the one refueling, it's 100% safe. One full charge or around 4 minutes, the forklifts can run more than 10 hours shift.

[@yutuniopati]

Hydorgen or natural gas ?

[@cgiunta6542]

Hydrogen is a natural gas. Edit: I’m stupid

[@yutuniopati]

@@cgiunta6542 No it's not, and you can't found pure hydrogen in the nature. It doesn't exist (on earth at least).

[@teojz]

This is mind gobbling stupid

[@SamsonKing9]

Cory You can get hydrogen from water you know?

[@chrisf1600]

Hydrogen is a fascinating technology. I'm still not convinced it'll take off for consumer vehicles, but for heavy transportation (trucks / rail / air) it's a no-brainer. Plus, hydrogen is a great way to store the excess electricity that's being produced by all those renewable energy sources.

[@Raw-Vidz]

In my country we are already fighting for a lot to charge our electric cars, this could be the solution, also nice to be able making our own fuel at home with solar panels.

[@Someonebutnoone10]

Lady with the glasses is what us Texans think all People from LA area are like lol.

[@GGCandle]

Pretty accurate. They're fleeing to TX now. Say hi to them.

[@djizzah]

people from LA think all texans look and sound like joe exotic

[@BoyxTonio]

@@djizzah he’s from Florida thooo...

[@BoyxTonio]

L.A. is expensive, you texans wouldn’t understand

[@aldossnow3703]

She’s from San Francisco. That’s where all these snobs live

[@waterspinach3145]

I am Mirai owner. Too many people are not confident about fuel-cell vehicles. I am not surprised about this as many years ago before BEV was that popular, those people said the same thing about BEV. They cursed BEV and believed that traditional gasoline car is the right choice. And we all know what happened later. One fact is that it is always difficult and expensive at the beginning of the something new when those explorers want to change the world by their new ideas.

[@tonystanley5337]

Why did you buy the Mirai? Do you see the BEV as a better solution now?

[@waterspinach3145]

@@tonystanley5337 I leased a LEAF on 2017 and it was pretty good. The problems were its range and charging time. In 2020, a new BEV with more than 200 miles range is pretty expensive and BEV's value depreciate quickly so I don't want to buy a new one before I settle down. Lease or buy a used BEV is OK but it is difficult to find one with more than 200 miles range in 2020 as most long range BEV was released around 2016-2018, so there are not many on the market. Finally I found the Mirai, I wanted to try Mirai since it release in 2016 but a new Mirai is too expensive for me at that time so I ended up leasing a LEAF as I said earlier. After returning my LEAF in early 2020, I realized Mirai depreciates extremely fast, which means that a used Mirai has already been at a low price and can't depreciate much any more. The most important thing is one dealer here provides a free 15k fuel in three years for a 2016, pre-own Toyota certified Mirai car at price of 14k. Doing the math, I think it is good deal. Now I have been driving Mirai for half year, here is my conclusion about Mirai VS BEV Pros: 1. Gives similar driving experience with great torque at start 2. Quick fuel fill, similar to gas, only 1-2 min more while even super charging of BEV takes 30 min to charge 100 miles. 3. Good feeling when driving, very unique feeling, different from gas car or BEV, also feel of the future, which is Mirai in Japanese. 4. Good range, fully fuel-filled 2016 Mirai claimed a range of 312, but in reality it is around 230 if drive aggressively, still better than many BEV Cons: 1. New car is expensive, even considering the rebate. So I bought a used. 2. Only works in some cities with many Hydrogen station, like the Bay Area, LA, East Coast, or Europe. 3. Depreciate fast and not economically good without free 15k fuel. Gas car is around 7-11 miles per dollar, BEV is much cheaper, Hydrogen car is only 3 miles per dollar.

[@tonystanley5337]

@@waterspinach3145 14k is serious depreciation with free fuel. I don't think BEV is deprecating so much, even leaf with rubbish battery went up in value. Used Tesla still around 30k. Have you not driven the car for any period, like a week or 2 and noticed any loss of fuel?

[@waterspinach3145]

@@tonystanley5337 Right, both BEV and Mirai depreciate a lot, one reason is the rebate, a new Mirai is around 58k and contains more than 10k rebate as well as 20k free fuel if I remember correctly. My 2017 LEAF was priced 32k-38k for new model, total rebate is about 10k so the actual price is 22k to 28k, and the value after 3 years, with 30k miles driven, no scratch or accident involved, is only 7-9k. Considering its low 108 miles range, it is not attractive. TESLA is different as it has no rebate now, so the rebate part will be included in depreciation. The Mirai has no problem in fuel loss, I did not drive my Mirai for two weeks during a few month ago due to COVID-19, when I drove it again, did not see fuel loss. The fuel, which is hydrogen, is stored in a large high pressure bottle.

[@tonystanley5337]

@@waterspinach3145 useful information thanks, according to UK Top Gear the tank would be empty after 2 weeks. I do know that all materials have Hydrogen permeation, and all commercial tanks just comments that joints can leak easily so you must have ventilation.

[@Kent41A]

An electrolyzer, which produces hydrogen, can be installed in your garage to refuel your car automatically, just like a battery car. The fueling and production infrastructure that people are used to with gasoline is often not needed for hydrogen. Hydrogen can be produced by at least six different methods which can be custom-tailored to your location and resources.

[@PaulCuenin]

Lady with glasses complaining about being an early adopter like someone made her do it. 🙄

[@Rhyme905]

yea that dummy should of got a tesla she doesnt seem too smart to know what hydrogen even is XD

[@patriciomera278]

And idk why I hate her accent

[@baonguyenmt]

@Haris Inam simp

[@billcichoke2534]

@@Rhyme905 No, she's too blonde to make an EV a BETTER choice. The husband should take custody of the kids and she can take the money she's wasting on golf carts, and spend it on ALIMONY and CHILD SUPPORT. She obviously doesn't understand the value of a dollar or she wouldn't be paying for electric cars of ANY stripe. At least it would be going to someone who makes better money choices...

[@dnyalslg]

"I missed my personal training and dance classes. This is seriously affecting my quality of life." 🙄🙄

[@jakeo1209]

This is pretty discouraging. I thought that hydrogen cars would be used everywhere, along with electric cars, but it now seems like the car companies are just trying to pacify California.

[@romaniangamer1]

Hey maybe california's just the begging

[@Mabeylater293]

It’s not about that at all. They could still pacify California (and our lungs) by building battery electric cars which you can charge ANYWHERE with ANY energy source: Sun, water, wind, coal, motion. But no, they CHOSE to build cars that rely on hydrogen only which have to come from big oil companies like Shell. Hydrogen cars are a trap that’s being set by toyota and big oil to keep their hands on your fueling dollars.

[@EdnovStormbrewer]

As_i_c_it, Repeat that last sentence but verrryyyyyyy slowwwwwwlyyyyyyy!

[@lionedheart]

California is the one suffering the most with pollution. Once they’ve met their goal. It’ll spread out in the country. Why wouldn’t it?

[@Bangy]

"You can only fill your car in one of 47 places." Oh yes, I remember electric cars in 2015.

[@nemeanlioness]

Yeah but tesla built charging stations. Looks like Toyota is waiting for a fairies to build hydrogen stations.

[@hyperdrivee7922]

You fuel a electric car in your garage. In 10 months I’ve charged my car once at a station, only cause i left my state. Thats Been the same for 100 years.

[@dingdongchingchong8659]

@@nemeanlioness There are more and more charging stations for fuel cells coming soon. Stop bashing fuel cell technology.

[@Bangy]

@@dingdongchingchong8659 At home/built-in charging systems are coming soon as well for HFCEVs.

[@Bangy]

@Jimmy Edward Probably just as dangerous as early li-ion batteries which caught fire easily.

[@qinby1182]

*_"Why is Toyota making hydrogen fuel-cell cars when plug-in electric vehicles are so popular?"_* This video answered NOTHING!! Still do not know.

[@danyboy86]

Exactly, no answer to their own question... I guess there's no clear justification, just bad decisions.

[@dj312000]

The answer was not explicitly answered....but they did touch upon it when they mentioned about the long hours of waiting for the battery to be charged fully. Unlike FCEV where the modus operandi is much like traditional gas pumps...the only problem being that there aren't enough Hydrogen filling stations like Gas pumps

[@minbajunid]

Amswer: Toyota has target to reduce the emission and go hydrogen can reduce footprint by 90%. It has a lot of benefit compare to ev and hybrid. Re-watch it again

[@ansumanswain5456]

Answer is two-fold: 1- By California law, they must reduce the overall carbon foot-print every year. So Hydrogen cars are there to offset other ICE vehicle. 2- They see this as the future along with EV. On long run, Hydrogen will be cheaper to produce and run.

[@philgray1023]

But did you get into the funky clapping backtrack? I would have done if I could have tolerated more than a minute of this. Oh, no-one said, "let's listen to some tripe being slapped on a butchers bench, to accompany this.... (add your own description)"

[@ScarSonic97]

Love all the scientists in the comment section xD

[@swaggerjagg22]

As a chemistry student the "scientists" that think that they know what they are talking about make my eyes hurt hahaha I am actually working on a presentation about hydrogen for a science fair 😊

[@user-kc8yo9yy7o]

UMS TV good luck 👍🏿

[@estehtix]

They're like some butthurt american or westerners because they don't have ability to understand of fuel alternative outside America also unable to do "pro consumer" in manufacturing a car

[@AlshoneJosePrasad53Science]

@Nomad I agree with you absolutely. Wherever I look under any such KZbin Video, somebody will be praising Musk. It irks me that people speculate so much on a person so as to label him the next rocket jesus or something!

[@mattycheeze4131]

Hydrogen electric vehicles are what created COVID-19 and they should be banned.

[@TwoNote]

Lol while Tesla actually committed to building up infrastructure, Toyota is like "this is not our job, but we are trying to help" 5:10

[@lorenzomariani7386]

Private infrastructure accessible only to one car manufacturer each are not the answer, they should all be available to everyone, otherwise it's not actually helping the world transition to clean energy, it's just helping your own brand. What Tesla did only helped themselves at the expense of everyone who doesn't want a Tesla electric car, since because of them the state will build less charging stations than it would have.

[@TwoNote]

@@lorenzomariani7386 I don't disagree with you honestly. I wonder, however, how long they would've survived as a small company (back then ) had they taken that approach. I do feel that Elon Musk has deviated from his original goal, as you allude to the fact that Tesla's approach is not one to save the world by removing ICE vehicles from the road, but one that provides them financial gain. Further, if they are proud of what they are building they shouldn't hesitate to open those stations up to other brands. Then again, I feel that would be a huge blow to Tesla.

[@HermanWillems]

Nobody wants to pay for it. It's not just a little bit more expensive. It's MASSIVLY expensive. So expensive that there is no view on any return on investment. It's negative investment. Unlike regular gasoline stations, or electric charging stations which both have a positive ROI. Hydrogen stations also need ALOT maintenance, and try to get make the already expensive hydrogen more expensive to cover those costs. And it's tax free, so in the end Hydrogen is SUPER expensive to run with positive ROI. Nobody wants to pay for it, because its more expensive than gasoline cars.

[@JoseFernandez-wu8pj]

@@HermanWillems ITS MORE EXPENSIVE NOW, PRECISELY BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE STATE GOVERNMENTS HAVE NOT SPENT THE MONEY TO CREAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND INCREASE THE LOCAL PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN. INCE THEY DO, THE SALES OF HYDROGEN CARS IN THE USA WILL SPIKE UP LIKE THE SALES OF HYBRIDS DID IN THE EARLY 2000’s.

[@scottrobinson8590]

@@HermanWillems Expensive, Hydrogen comes from a simple process from water. It isn't like something you have to find and pump out of he earths crust or anything. Making in home hydrogen electrolysis units shouldn't be that difficult also. It's better than a 20k dollar battery that takes and hour to recharge at special charge stations or 8 hours at home.

[@AuthenticKontent]

Video didn't answer the "why"

[@zariumsheridan3488]

Because there's no good answer. Hydrogen cars are less efficient than EVs if you plan to use renewable sources. Musk already explained why hydrogen cars are a dead end and a stupid idea. Grid electricity -> water electrolysis -> fuel cell -> motor -> wheels is way less efficient than grid electricity -> battery -> motor-> wheels. And if you are going to use natural gas to produce hydrogen you are better off (energy/carbon-emission wise) just burning that natural gas in a regular ICE.

[@joelchils]

Why not?

[@TechGrubTV]

To be ahead of the game... be it 10, 20 or 20 years... Hydrogen fuel seems to have a future.

[@Mote78]

I think they did answer that. They talked about the CA law mandating car manufacturers to have green energy vehicles and that having a variety of options at their disposal would help them meet that law, also that the short refueling time is a big bonus over charging batteries. Another video talks about storage of excess hydrogen in salt mines is much cheaper than building batteries. Imagine if we had given up flight because of the many early failures.

[@alanduff4222]

The not enough lithium on the planet to replace ice vehicles with electric vehicles in the US never mid the rest of world that's why

[@mrhickman53]

Electrolysis and compression of Hydrogen and conversion to electricity in a fuel cell is much less efficient than charging and discharging a battery. Renewable energy can be used to more effectively offset fossil fuels using grid-level battery storage or battery electric vehicles.

[@antoniolomeli7956]

Mark Hickman But isnt the selling point the fact that it takes minutes to charge and zero emissions? I don’t think people care about whether or not its more efficient as long as it convenient

[@mrhickman53]

@@antoniolomeli7956 My point is that the consumer will be paying a premium for the energy to move the car due to the lower overall efficiency. The faster charging comes at the expense of not being able to charge at home. As the driver of an EV I never go to a filling station except when I occasionally take a trip. How fast the car charges is immaterial to me for the majority of my use. I would not pay a premium for my energy as well as tolerate the inconvenience when I am not travelling to trade for having to locate scarce and expensive hydrogen filling stations while travelling.

[@AlineaEuros]

implying effeciency has ever been an issue when most gas combustion engines are 30% effecient.

[@radiocrash]

@@antoniolomeli7956 couldn't have said it better myself

[@radiocrash]

@@AlineaEuros couldn't have said it better myself

[@louieluis8840]

Huge company's vehicle fleet of the gas company, phone company, courier companies are using CNG which is efficient but is consumed quickly compared to regular gasoline. Now these companies are not buying those company vehicles. Theyre replacing it now with regular gasoline vehicles.

[@ShadLife]

What I like about electric cars is that I can just plug in at home. I don't have to worry about an infrastructure to fuel my car. I simply plug it in when home. Since I have 240 volt power to my garage I use a level 2 charger which always ensures I have a fully charged car every morning, even if I completely deplete the battery. Then add onto the fact I plan to get solar on my garage soon and can pretty much drive off the grid once I do. The only challenge with electric cars is longer road trips. If well planned out it can be easily done. For these hydrogen cars we continue to rely on large corporations profiting off of fueling our cars. So they will control the costs of the fuel. Looking at how big oil operates, I don't trust hydrogen fuel companies to behave much better. So electricity is the way to go because we can always have renewable energy that we can generate on our own if we choose to.

[@tomellingham8627]

No. EV batteries do not last forever, and they take alot of resource to produce. With batteries, the big corporations have you, I say, more than they had you before. That's why Tesla as a corporation is valued as it is. Try finding a supplier for a replacement They've found a way to make disposable products that ultimately people need to keep going back for. Try finding a supplier for a replacement Tesla battery in a few years. Do you know how much electricity solar panels can produce to recharge your vehicle off grid? California should be praised for not yielding to the powerful new EV lobby and providing a genuine alternative platform for low carbon transportion. Generating zero carbon energy inside the car is more progressive than simply storing it there. Although this comment is critical, you're thinking of solutions, and one can't help but admire that.

[@ShadLife]

@@tomellingham8627 A disposable product? All cars are disposable products! Let's see, they last about 200,000 miles and by that time are pretty old and clunky. There are a few exceptions, but not many. A Tesla can easily go 300,000 miles and beyond on the same battery with only a slight loss in capacity. And that technology is only going to get better. Then when the battery is done, it gets recycled into another use. BTW, a fuel cell car also has a battery. As for solar, right now I can get 100% solar power if I pay for it. It is available in my area. Again, it's another technology that is improving. Fuel cell vehicles are definitely not the future. Not until I can put rain water in my car and drive it......😉

[@jukkaaho7962]

I often get this ” because I can recharge at home, it is good”. For those who can, ev is a good option. Worldwide, majority of people don’t have the option to charge at home. That is why we need low emission options for them as well. Also battery metals for making all cars bev is not possible

[@tomellingham8627]

@@ShadLife I agree, all technology is improving. I also think EVs are the future, and having spun round in a Nissan Leaf, I'm a big fan of them. But there are some real truths: current EV battery production has a massive impact on the environment, and currently all EV batteries lose about 2-3% capacity per year, even on minimal use. That means a ten year old Tesla will be between 20-30% down on capacity after only a decade. I wish it wasn't so, but that's how it is. Tesla's company value is based on this fact. Unless you have very specific laws in your local jurisdiction, you can't go to a third party to buy a replacement battery, you have to go to Tesla. You want to get spare parts for it? Your friendly local garage will have to pay Tesla thousands to become a supplier. Each Tesla contain thousands of lines of code which locks you into paying a hie corporation. It's up to you if you want to believe that truth and promote it or not. My last car, a little 1.6 engined Golf estate, did 240,000 miles before it was written off at seventeen years old following a collision. It had received nothing more than irregular servicing, a new clutch, a couple of timing belts, and various brakes, tyres and wipers. Nothing more than a few hundred quid apart. I'm not saying that's better than en EV, but it was certainly durable. Of course it was disposable, it was easily repairable but as it was valued at £600, it was disposed of. My other point is, once you actually start generating enough energy through solar to power your house and fully charge your car, then you can come back and report your success. Meantime, please realise the difference between aspiration and reality. (and still, I admire your aspirations :).) Toyota and other hydrogen powered vehicle experimenters here are looking at adding diversification of future energy strategies. They're not telling the world their strategy is the only one that matters, simply because they're looking for a return on investment. That's to be applauded.

[@ShadLife]

@@tomellingham8627 I have a friend who has a Tesla and solar. They power their car and put energy back into the grid. In winter their electric bill is significantly reduced and in summer they get a rebate from the electric company. I would say that's pretty good and yes, once I do some other updates and see if my roof needs updating, I will add solar to my home. For now, I just buy solar that comes from elsewhere. Yep, that is an option. There are Tesla's out there with 150k miles and have not even lost 10% of their battery. And those are some of the first Tesla's. Batteries and battery technology is constantly improving. Also, there are more companies than just Tesla coming to market with EVs, so I am not so sure why you only mention one brand. As for lines of code, most newer vehicles already have a lot of lines of code and that is just the way things are going to be. I personally just enjoy being able to plug in at home. No infrastructure needed because the electric grid infrastructure is already there. I never go to a gas station.......unless I need the restroom of course...😀

[@SPEAKTHETRUTH.24.7.]

This is the best way forward hydrogen fuel cell.... well done to Toyota

[@yggdrasil9039]

Hydrogen fuel cell technology will be great for semi trucks and later on, for commercial long haul aircraft. Doesn't make much sense for private vehicles though, where battery rate and cost is coming down and energy density increasing.

[@LafemmebearMusic]

Or is it possible, because this is true and you can check, that oil lobbyist make sure that this tech doesn't get off the ground... literally they regularly lonbby legislation to stop it and when we track the money guess whos backing it. Also before you say how does big oil benefit from electric, when we still need the grid which leads back to fossil fuels or nuclear power... so the question is what will you believe. I encourage you to look into the legislation thats regularly blocked this and who's backing it.

[@carbonslice8160]

@@LafemmebearMusic how exactly are EVs relying on oil? I've never heard of a US power plant that relies in oil. Coal, sure, but that's a different and dying industry.

[@Ismalith]

@@LafemmebearMusic You just have it 100% backwards, at first H2 cars are massively pushed by big oil companies like Shell, BP, Exxon. if there is a display of H2 technology you will nearly always see at least one of these names there as well. At second, electricity can be produced any way you want it. And as Solar Panels get cheaper most BEV owners will sooner or later charge their cars with that when possible. Also where I live we have this year the first time >50% renewable Sources in our Energy mix, even though our Government does everything to keep coal and nuclear plants running. Also while BEV can be used off grid, H2 can't unless you want a 13000 PSI compressor and storage system in your backyard.

[@DavidReyes-nr1jg]

Lafemmebear Music you are right sir, but hydrogen is expensive to make and there is no network to deliver refills like plug ins. Rn the efficiency of battery’s are 70-90% vs hydrogen 25-35%. And when the math is done only truckers see a cost saving for now.

[@timtoolman9940]

@@carbonslice8160 Dying is it? Electric cars only account for about 1 in 250 cars worldwide. I would be interested in fuel cell hydrogen but not a battery car. I don't want to plug in multiple cars in my driveway not worry about range or can I run the heater of AC and still get home. FTS. Not a viable option today. Electricity is largely generated by coal, natural gas or nuclear plants. Wind and Solar will not power the worlds transportation, heating, cooling and industries just can't do it.

[@xchopp]

I got 15 seconds in before I hit the first issue: Hyundai?! You do know that Hyundai and its sister company Kia are selling Kona EV and Niro EV -- right?

[@albaraqahtani]

xchopp kia is not sister a company , more of a subsidiary

[@fryphillipj560]

And if you had watched the rest then you know why that is

[@louieluis8840]

Kia now is owned by hyundai

[@LafemmebearMusic]

All of yall bow at the fert of big oil and don't even realize it or dont care and thats so concerning. If you really wanted change you'd tell you state and local delegates to fight to stop the oil lobbyist who block the building out of the this infrastructure...cus your electric cars still need the grid and those batteries have to go to landfills that contribute to acid rain... so how great are they really?

[@marco.morel04]

And you do know that Toyota sells a plug in Prius?? The video wasn't saying they only support hydrogen, it was saying that these 3 companies are early adopters

[@hyouzanren1846]

Oil companies have hydrogen Refinery Investments already on place since they expecting it to replace Oil and not a damn plug in and rechargeable batteries!

[@GalaxyGal-]

Lithium is a finite resource. We could feasibly use hydrogen fuel indefinitely, because it’s self-replenishing. Plus, Toyota and Honda are proven leaders in the auto industry that know how to build reliable cars and make steady improvements. It’s a shame it’s been a failure in California this far.

[@dallysinghson5569]

I hear the same about oil companies having investments in renewables too... Seems like they know the end is nigh and are diversifying their portfolios.

[@dallysinghson5569]

@@tanzboden Do you really want to extract enough litium to last "millions of years"?

[@kennetheis3588]

Since hydrogen comes from carbon why should we go there if the idea is to save the environment.

[@dipladonic]

@@dallysinghson5569 Diversifying their portfolios is optics. Hydrocarbons are the key to civilisation and progress (and for making hydrogen). Their use will only ever grow until the supply/demand curves intersect...then the apocalypse will start as the realisation eventually dawns on humanity that they are an irreplaceable commodity for the prosperity and flourishing of civilisation. Inexpensive, ubiquitous, scaleable, energy-dense, portable, flexible, fossil fuels...there is nothing nor will there ever be anything quite like them.

[@shimeih2287]

Y'all forget that Toyota and Honda are Japanese. Their gvt is building a large network of hydrogen stations across the country so they have invested in this technology. It's more logical to produce these cars at the moment rather than investing billions in EV development.

[@normt430]

Japanese...and not ahead in any new technology today. See the release of Android Auto/Apple Carplay as evidence.

[@jpkingss6033]

@@normt430 lol

[@normt430]

@@jpkingss6033 they are just in the last few years getting into turbos while everyone else is stopping engine development and focusing on EV's.

[@PrimiusLovin]

Perhaps it's logical for them, and so is the Japanese language... and they can keep both of them; talk about overcomplicating!! haha

[@tonystanley5337]

How much do you think this network of filling stations costs? They are committing themselves to an uncompetitive and expensive future.

[@philgray1023]

Did we need a clapping backtrack of music here or was that deliberate to get us clapping to this advertorial. I know, I can read the producers mind. "This is as boring as hell so, let's not listen to the people talking, let's listen to clapping instead."

[@SaceedAbul]

Long story short. They already invested to much in this tech. -engineer who knows people there

[@LeseanDeVon]

You know my uncle there too?

[@LafemmebearMusic]

So youve neen won over by big oil cool...

[@wyw201]

@@LafemmebearMusic Don't think many engineers in Japan are associated with Idemitsu Kosan

[@Mabeylater293]

Even the designer of the Mirai agreed with Musk when Musk called hydrogen cars “mind-bogingly stupid”. Toyota is just hoping that the buying public is even more stupid. Hydrogen cars are a trap set up by big oil. These fools who bought a hydrogen car really are the bottom thinkers of our society.

[@wyw201]

TruAgape1234 Do you have a source on this? Hydrogen cars are receiving a big push in Japan domestic market where electricity is expensive. Similarly hydrogen infrastructure is also being considered in Singapore where outages are common during typhoon season.

[@Nexxarian]

Funny that this video came out so recently. I'm writing a paper on the debate between electric vs. hydrogen vehicles for my college writing class. After it I can safely say I'm firmly behind electric over hydrogen, at least for short to mid-range vehicles. Larger vehicles like semi trucks may be better off using hydrogen for longer ranges, until higher density batteries are created (I just heard GM is making a 200 Kwh battery for their 2022 Hummer). We already have a lot of the infrastructure in place for making driving longer distances in electric cars viable, and the convenience of charging at home is a huge advantage. Also, hydrogen vehicles are just electric cars with an extra step. Not to mention you have a tank of highly pressurized, flammable gas in your car. The main issue is how we generate our electricity. It's gonna be coming mostly from energy plants burning fossil fuels, which defeats the purpose of driving an EV. Solar, wind, and hydro power aren't permanent. The sun stops shining, wind stops blowing, hydro power is a bit better but requires huge dams or other infrastructure to be built. I think the only realistic solution to this is more use of nuclear power. Yes, it does produce radioactive waste, but that's better than putting emissions into the atmosphere, and it's capable of producing the energy required to replace current fossil-fuel energy plants. Of course all of this is essentially moot because no one wants to invest in this kind of infrastructure. Oil companies are determined to keep us dependent on gasoline for profits.

[@MylesV]

I wrote a similar paper for a college writing class a few years ago and I completely agree with your thoughts on the two options. I've been driving EVs for a few years now and nothing beats the convenience of plugging in at home, I don't think about charging unless I'm on longer drives. Even then, it's not difficult with DC fast charging infrastructure around where I live. I see hydrogen as a way for oil companies to keep a hold on the market for fuel for personal transportation. Shell is investing in the technology, they have been for a while. It helps them because it forces people to continue relying on a large specialized production and distribution network for fuel, while electricity can be produced by consumers who invest in solar panels and home energy storage. There's no way for a regular consumer to produce their own hydrogen to fill a pressurized tank on a vehicle with. The best point is that they're just electric cars with more steps. Current models still had a large battery for peak power output and regen braking, in addition to multiple hydrogen tanks which take up a lot of space (I believe the Hyundai Nexo has three).

[@Nexxarian]

If there was better infrastructure around where I live for electric car charging I might consider getting one. In my city of ~30,000 in northeast Ohio we have a few charging parking spots at Walmart and a bed and breakfast in the center of town has two Tesla chargers that I'm sure you're only allowed to use if you stay there. Otherwise that's it as far as I know. I've seen several Teslas around though so I assume they've got the home charger you put in the garage. One time I did see a Toyota Mirai though, I have no idea how they refueled it though because there because there are literally no places to refuel a hydrogen car outside of California.

[@flipadavis]

The notion that hydrogen might be better for larger vehicles like trucking may soon also fall into the not true category. The Tesla semi will be delivered to customers later this year and will have a range of 500 miles at a reasonable price of $180,000. There still aren't any commercial hydrogen long haul semis that have been delivered to actual customers so we can't really compare them yet but if the Tesla semi proves to deliver a reliable 400-500 miles of range in all conditions and Tesla begins installing Megacharger infrastructure then it might already be game over for the hydrogen fuel cell semi market before it even began.

[@Nexxarian]

The Tesla semi's range of 500 is very low for a vehicle like that. Typical semi trucks can go about 2,000 miles before needing to be refueled. Electric is not for them just yet.

[@superbros1690]

Hydrogen is the future. Batteries are bad for the environment and there is a limit on making batteries. Where as hydrogen ther isn't.

[@arnoldtabor3767]

The thing is theyre one of a few actually developing the tech so if it eventually takes off they'll have a big head start like Toyota with hybrids

[@jdorville]

This reminds me of Nokia VS other cellphone makers, they were so greedy that they said "we are Nokia" and they are now in the oblivion...

[@AshikJonathan]

Infighting caused Nokia to fall. One team vying 4 jola sail fish os another for Windows os and in that time they forgot android

[@Buzz-Of-Craze]

They try to build a hybrid car, electric and hydrogen fuel. Any questions?

[@AshikJonathan]

@@Buzz-Of-Craze yes what is the color of yellow?

[@destroyedsoul1791]

Ashik Jonathan I think it is orange.

[@AshikJonathan]

@@destroyedsoul1791 I'm ashamed to call myself indian now. You should've known its indigo.

[@brianlee5649]

I loved the Prius when it first came out in 2000, loved all gens except for gen 4 because of its silly taillight design, but I dig the redesign in 2018 (also came with AWD-e). Overall the Prius is a fantastic car with fantastic mileage and I love it.

[@christopheromahony5526]

Ultimately, there are also millions of potential customers living in town and city centers who can't plug a new EV into anything near their apartment. In the US, people always talk about cars and suburbs, Japan and Europe spend more time considering issues around cars and city centers. Manufacturers also know that getting young people and city dwellers to buy their first car represents market growth, instead of surrendering urban transport profits to Uber, or fighting over the same old suburban markets. Liquid fuels serve that goal.

[@christopheromahony5526]

As the video didn't answer the question, I thought I'd give it a try.

[@JayceeR]

This is a smart move but a lot of people prefer electric cars because of how it performs and etc. also hydrogen fuel can be much more expensive than electricity especially if you compare it by using solar panels and wind turbines. Electricity is much cleaner. Electricity is the future.

[@cerisem7727]

Electricity isn't to say is clean, but most are still coming from locations where fossil fuels are needed to produce the vehicle and its batteries. The same can also be said about Hydrogen as well, but both sides have been steadily pushing towards using renewable energy to create the fuel and vehicles. All of Japan and South Korea car manufacturers are pushing for Hydrogen (despite having a few electric cars as well) over electricity because electric cars haven't been refined yet, and the resources into making batteries are not abundant (even if recycled). European and Japanese manufacturers are split on what to support, but regardless they are making both vehicles and watching demand before sticking to certain vehicle. I'm just going to wait it out and see, before I make a decision on what to get in the future. For now I'm just getting another gas/petrol vehicle, probably the last one before the switch.

[@doices9786]

Correction, Fuel cells is a source of electricity just like powerplants. Just clarifying that they're the same but in different way.

[@00crashtest]

@@cerisem7727 Get the Toyota Prius Prime (assuming you have a garage to charge it), which is electric for 25 miles but also has gas for longer road trips. They're known as plug-in hybrids. Best of all, its MSRP is only $27,600, comparable to the conventional gas Toyota Camry's $24,425 MSRP.

[@cartoonboys5]

Fool cells are electric cars also, its just that instead of a battery pack they use hydrogen to create electricity.

[@solapowsj25]

Fuel cells for long distance travel and EV for short trips compete, both having salient features that help reduce carbon emissions.

[@dafa8592]

The best is HYDROGEN FUEL CELL PLUG IN. This can help to charge battery with electric too if no hydrogen pump near you.

[@htin08]

And add solar panels on the roof.

[@nicoxis]

Or you could just use batteries....

[@dafa8592]

@@htin08 🤣🤣😂😂

[@lsfornells]

Hydrogen fuel cells are not batteries! They can’t be electrically “charged”, just refuelled !

[@dafa8592]

@@lsfornells just check it's Hydrogen + Battery check Toyota Mirai

[@Denimus92]

Non EV because oil tycoons want to keep selling you gas on stations, just in form of hydrogen, plus, it's more consumer friendly for good-old Bob, who still don't want to adopt metric system and make changes in his mind "infrastructure"...

[@dvw.]

Hydrogen is an abundant resource, you literally could make it at home. Actually, Hydrogen Car is better than EV because no need to wait for charging, it's basically an electric power plant and its waste is only water.

[@davehu8829]

Dino Diary this is BS. Do you want to have a big storage tank I. Your home? A big battery is a much better option.

[@albaraqahtani]

Dino Diary You HAVE to be stupid , you can’t make hydrogen fuel in your home , why are there ENTIRE PLANTS dedicated to extracting hydrogen fuel cells ? It’s because yes that hydrogen is abundant but abundant is different from extractable , the process of making and supplying hydrogen fuel cells is VERY VERY complicated and it also lacks infrastructure

[@Topcaat]

making hydragon is also a dirty process that uses a lot of carbon dioxide

[@dvw.]

@@davehu8829 So how big? a car has a size limit when it's out of battery you need to wait longer to charge. Until now there is no technology that fills the car's battery fully within 2 minutes, It might be in the future but not now. Time is valuable, charging time is still not efficient.

[@jamesg8199]

The Mirai is a solid vehicle. I’ve driven a couple and it’s a pretty fascinating power train. Although, it’s a little unnerving knowing that you’re in a car with two high pressure hydrogen tanks on board. It’s no surprise that California can’t get their act together to build and properly maintain the fueling stations.

[@Bfould3120]

H2 in light and medium duty vehicles does not make sense for so many reasons. 1) Almost all US hydrogen is made from fossil fuels. 2) it is an expensive fuel per mile after huge subsidies and green hydrogen is even more expensive. 3) producing hydrogen using electrolysis is a extremely inefficient; using electricity to separate hydrogen from water, then compress the gas, the chilling the gas, transporting to dispenser, using energy to store it is crazy wasteful. Battery electric vehicles just plug into the existing grid infrastructure. 4) Hydrogen is stored under pressure and highly volatile. Toyota is pushing hopes and dream of a clean hydrogen future because they refused to invest in battery technology for decades and only admitting it was a mistake recently.

[@henrytep8884]

Maybe it's because Ewaste is extremely toxic to the environment and the amount of waste produced extracting the materials to build batteries is also very damaging to the environment. Plus it's just an alternative form of energy, more alternatives, the more options we get to have which can lead to optimal environmental impact. Battery is very damaging to the environment, no one ever thinks about the waste produced.

[@philterry3293]

@@henrytep8884 Do not confuse lithium Ion batteries with lead acid, Car batteries are a valuable resource and have value even when no longer able to drive a car, second life storage and ultimately recycled, they have far less impact on the environment than say oil, or even Hydrogen.

[@RyanWolfFerguson]

@@henrytep8884 BEV batteries are are very reliable and can be repurposed as well.

[@paulwblair]

@@henrytep8884 lithium ion batteries are non toxic. Try again.

[@beckwerks]

Our planet is covered in hydrogen in all the water. How can you tell us that it cost more to break water for hydrogen than it does for the gas from oil that we are destroying everything on this planet with? Hydrogen burns clean with zero pollutants verses the deadly pollutants oil is well known for. And for the dude defending batteries, are they using lead acid batteries in modern day electric vehicle's??? No they are not! What is your purpose of speaking about a battery that is not even being used? That's about like telling everyone that a male horse isn't pregnant...

[@ecentballer1]

Toyota made the prius. It was new no one liked it. Then people started driving them. The practicality of the prius is amazing an reliable. I love this idea im glad Toyota is putting the effort to push hydrogen in the USA just like they push the first hybrid cars. Bravo.

[@IMagnus123123123]

Why didn't you ask the Toyota why they don't create fuel-cell dispensaries? Just like Tesla is doing with electricity dispensaries

[@MarsKvaratskhelia]

5:23

[@anxley6263]

Is it okay to use tap water as fuel for the car?

[@WhomThouDoesNotKnow]

Oh no... not the missed dance classes and flights. Flights especially, those are great for keeping down the GHGs.

[@hunati31]

"Fool's cell. Mark my word. Hydrogen is doomed."

[@moisty_rabbit9873]

That is actually completly incorrect. If they had the same amount of money as Tesla, they would be better.

[@EverydayEV]

Electric is the way of the future! ⚡️

[@ericcunningham1138]

Of course the fuel stations will need a little time to be robust. When I leased an ev there were only about 100 charging stations around LA. Now there are thousands. Give it a year or two.

[@bubba842]

Big difference between storing gasoline and diesel to storing liquid hydrogen. The Hydrogen has to be kept in a tank that has to keep the temperature at about -200 degrees Celsius. This will not be cheap. The cost will be passed on to you. I have worked with liquid CO2 and liquid nitrogen in the oilfield and have witnessed horrific injuries from some unlucky people. The training of staff, truck drivers and the safety to the public is nothing like petroleum products. The will be massively expensive.

[@miguellopez3392]

oh man the cost and complexity difference of regulating 400V to a car battery from a plug vs 10,000psi explosive hydrogen gas will be far different, it takes 30 minutes just to represurize a fuel tank at a station so its not even faster if multiple people use it.

[@kalistylez1]

Imagine being married to the lady with glasses.... I might become an alcoholic or drug addict.

[@wesfields9322]

You continue to breath after being exposed to that?

[@KanishQQuotes]

Toyota, Honda and hyundai could collaborate on the fuel stations. I don't see any reason why existing gas stations cannot be fitted with a hydrogen dispenser. That alone shall be a good jump start to the hydrogen system.

[@MichaelMerten]

Growing pains. Hopefully as more hydrogen vehicles are sold the infrastructures will improve. Here in Switzerland there aren't even good infrastructures to charge electric cars, the government does very little. Only Tesla has got charging stations in most places.

[@philterry3293]

Hydrogen is not the future of general transport.

[@HN-ny8ye]

2020 Toyota Mirai MSRP $58,550 - (Toyota rebate SoCal) $7,500 - (State CA rebate CVRP) $4,500 or $7,000 - (SCE rebate) $1,000 - (Prepaid gas) $15,000 = $28,050~$30,550

[@spectacularspaghetti1849]

All things aside, the 2nd gen Mirai looks pretty darn good tho

[@yevhennahornyi3786]

It’s horrible experience stations always, broken or run out or something else, once I was in bed at midnight checked stations status there’s hydrogen, I get up and drive, I feel like my life all around hydrogen now, watching when it’s available spending time in lines... (Honda, Sacramento area)

[@hawkesworth1712]

"Toyota don't do infrastructure"? They should rethink that mindset. The main income for Toyota dealers is car maintenance and with EVs that revenue stream will fall substantially. A small corner of the Toyota dealer lot can be converted to a refuelling station - not only for hydrogen but for recharging as well.

[@Madzguy007]

Adrian Wollaston I own a 10 year old Toyota.. it never broke down on me... still going very strong... only thing I have to do is oil change, which is cheap and break pad replacement once in a while

[@romantechplus]

@@Madzguy007 I know, Toyota and Honda cars will run for ages, I had a 2001 honda CRV that worked for nearly 20 years and I never served it and I regularly abused it.

[@no40]

I’ll wait another ten years to see where this technology will become, as well as electric vehicles. For the immediate future, gasoline remains the best source of power for my personal transportation needs.

[@MichaelMerten]

True. I'm waiting 4 years before I change over. Everything is still so expensive.

[@felixnuwahid9879]

For now

[@thevrhouse]

I don't think it will be 10 years, but I would not buy any new car right now either. I do own an inexpensive EV and it is great. But things are changing so fast in the next 5 years, to invest so much money in anything is not wise financially. Stick with what you have for a few years or buy a used EV if you really want an EV now. EV's will win though in the future. But they will most likely be in the form of EV self driving taxis and you will not be buying a car anyway as experts are predicting that they will be 10x cheaper than owning and maintaining your own car in 5 - 10 years.

[@superbros1690]

@@thevrhouse No way evs dont make sense. They are limited. Hydrogen is not.

[@thevrhouse]

@@superbros1690 Hydrogen is too expensive to refine and transport. Not to mention the cost to add stations everywhere. There are already millions of potential EV charging stations all over the world with a simple upgrade to your plugs in your home, office, and basically anywhere else. It is way more convenient to plug in and go to bed, than having to worry about going to a station. Batteries are only getting cheaper and better. EV's have already won by how much money has been invested in them compared to hydrogen.

[@cellocovers3982]

Basically the only reason these are made is because of government subsidies

[@killergoldfish117]

Same reason Tesla exists, to be fair. Have only ever made money selling Carbon Credits.

[@preetammukherjee623]

To me HFCV looks the IDEAL future. These battery based cars having limited range makes many uncertain. The only concern of HFCV is the storage of Hydrogen and how safe that would be. In reality IC engines hardly combust tyat easily without any ignition.

[@emantabrizi8218]

What are you thinking Toyota and Honda? All you're doing is adding to the mess by building processing plants and refueling stations. Plug-in your EV at home or at work, and you never have to visit a refueling station. You were once automotive leaders. Now, you're getting left behind.

[@seeksustainablejapan]

Excellent! Looking forward to talking with Senior Engineer Jackie Birdsall from Toyota in my talkshow today to find out about updates since this excellent talk

[@joeo7257]

Hydrogen will never catch on until somebody installs many dozens of stations in every state. Electric is everywhere, including right here at home.

[@Brian-om2hh]

And there lies the real solution. Can someone tell me how I get hydrogen from my solar panels?

[@johnnymichaelnoobmaster69]

Toyota was one of the first to introduce electrification in 1997. They have the most hybrids out of all companies, yet they still refuse to build a fully electric car. Honda and Mazda share a bit of that philosophy, they have fully electric cars with Honda E and Mazda MX-30, but they have 35.5 KWh of energy, that's low and the range is short because they did some math, if an electric car has a battery pack larger than 35.5 KWh, it pollutes more than a petrol car. Toyota also knows this and they prefer plug-in hybrids and self-charging hybrids because it's better to have 50 km of electric range and a petrol engine to keep you going, rather than 200 km range without a petrol engine because it's fully electric. They are stubborn and will not build something fully electric until the CO2 must drop lower than 50 g/km or a value so low, that their hybrids can't achieve, so they will be forced to lower the fleet average value with battery electric or more hydrogen electric vehicles. I respect Toyota for not following the Tesla fanboyism, they don't want to catch Tesla like everyone else, they have a mind and a path of their own, that's why I think Toyota will be better in the long run and will rise above everyone else.

[@Brian-om2hh]

I don't know about other markets Johnny, but Lexus - the Luxury Car Division of Toyota - are now selling a fully electric SUV vehicle in the UK. Also, all RAV 4's now sold here are hybrids....as are most other Lexus models offered here.

[@JustMe-vk4fn]

As someone who worked with welding gas sales years ago, I learned how powerful Hydrogen is one day when the guys filling industrial cylinders decided to fill an eight-inch kids balloon with hydrogen, knotted the end and let it go. As it rose into the air over our filling plant, the guys took a shot at it with the small .22 rifle they kept for shooting rats around the industrial buildings. It was a great shot and the guy hit the balloon. Trouble was, that 8 inch wide kids balloon exploded so violently that it shattered windows not only at OUR plant but for other companies buildings neighboring our plant. Hydrogen is nothing to play with. A kid CAN safely plug something in to an outlet. Keep things simple.

[@mrbear1302]

Kind of like the natural gas and propane vehicles too.

[@kl01af6940]

Rifles to shoot rats in an industrial area. Just 'murican things.

[@ttimothytran]

What about cost per mile when recharging vs refilling. Isn’t filling hydrogen really expensive?

[@JamesBond-rv1kk]

I've been walking for thirty years

[@Bnguyen276]

King Willie keep walking.

[@kurtpatterson509]

If it has put you in good physical shape it was more than worth it.

[@beanapprentice1687]

Even better than driving and EV

[@kirkjohnson9353]

We need to tax shoes more.

[@EngineerAAJ]

Here in Brazil, we had a gas get popular as a cheaper fuel, at the expense of installing an adaptation to use this gas instead of gasoline, I wonder if that would easen the transition to Hydrogen

[@onthefly7265]

120 mio dollars for 64 H2O fueling station say everything what you want to know about hydrogen for personal use..... a CCS Charger station costs only 30k

[@Brian-om2hh]

My home charge point cost me around £500... about $600 I guess... And so far I don't see any way of producing hydrogen from my solar panels..... They are producing around 25% of the electricity my car uses though, so I'm happy. And don't forget those 64 new hydrogen filing stations will all need to be regularly supplied by large trucks emitting exhaust gasses. My electricity doesn't need any transportation. It comes through the grid (and via my solar of course).

[@xenoborg007]

Why do you both think YOU need to make hydrogen at home.... Did you make your own petrol before electric cars were a thing? Do you make your own electricity now?, Do you have a hydroelectric / coal / nuclear power plant in your back garden? But I guess you have your 20% efficient solar panels that produce a bunch of greenhouse gases to manufacture, and very quickly degrade in efficiency.

[@narnia1233]

@@xenoborg007 I agree that when you look closer at electric it’s questionable whether it really is all that green as they claim. The more closely you look at all this stuff the more it’s like, is this really making much of a difference? But, yeah, currently looking at hydrogen it does appear to be maybe the most eco option. Toyota did make the first factory in the world that extracts methane from cow manure to get hydrogen. And then they use that hydrogen from the cow manure as fuel for these vehicles as I understand-or maybe just a prototype. But, they’ve at least proven it can be done now. But mass production of that process is yet to be implemented. Another interesting thing is the UK is considering replacing natural gas with hydrogen for domestic (household) heating. Because most of the homes in the UK use gas lines. And apparently hydrogen probably can literally use the exact same existing lines without any changes. They literally might be able to just swap it out easy peasy. And bam, net zero heating for all. I live in the US in a cold climate and use gas heating, so that to me sounds really promising or at least interesting. I don’t know why they won’t at least try it. It’s kind of frustrating. I know they say that at first they’d have to extract hydrogen from natural gas to use it for heating right away but couldn’t they eventually switch it to cow manure or whatever down the road? It doesn’t have to be perfect right away. That’s my feelings anyway.

[@papercut1987]

Energy density if a battery is just not there yet. Probably won't reach the level of liquid fuel within years. It's good to work on both path.

[@leveraged6694]

You missed your pilates class! OMG!!! 😲😲

[@p__jay]

Leveraged her voice and the way she is speaking - typical arrogant ....🤭.... 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@shawn8847]

Karen likes Fcev lol

[@ibrahimsued4906]

lol, it's been so funny. And her life quality was hit, lmao :) :)

[@Bucks7542]

I truly don’t understand why people just don’t look for alternate fuel. Like why not change the thing right in front of us. Instead of completely redoing the engine, why not look for a new source of fuel and lubricants

[@can-uc-wakeup]

Do you mean fully synthetic oil, petrol and diesel? Hmm .. makes you wonder ...

[@exp3905]

So basically, Toyota is the new Nokia! You have 10 years then Toyota is a history.

[@dbcooper8607]

Except Toyota has been number one auto maker since like forever, heavily diversified, its an icon japanese company , meaning they know two things: Value and Demand. Toyota will still be toyota long after Tesla is dissolved.

[@johnd01]

Toyota is selling compliance cars in CA only. An H2 (FCEV) car count as more compliance credits than a BEV car. ​I am not sure how much more 8 times as much comes to mind. The distribution problem can be solved. Several of the existing stations lack the needed capacity. There also needs to be a lot more stations. The state is chipping in about $2,000,000 per station, but it still takes almost 3 years to get approval and start selling H2. Stations need to get to the point that they are making their own H2, using large tanks they would not have to compress as much for storage but would still have to compress to "stuff" the H2 into the car at 10,000 PSI. If all that worked out it would take about 3 times as much electricity to fuel and H2 car per mile as it would to charge a battery version of the same vehicle. There are a lot of losses in electrolysis, transportation, storage, and compressing to 10,000 PSI in the H2 car, along with the conversion from H2 back to electricity. If you do the steam reforming to make H2, use less electricity but also use natural gas (CH4), you are also generating a CO molecule for every 3 H2 molecules. We are doing all this to get away from producing CO2, but CO is a bigger problem than CO2. We also do not want to use CH4 because it is not a green fuel.

[@johnnypetro9314]

Maybe because there are apartment and townhome dwellers who don’t have access to a power cord while parked at home. That’s a lot of people right?

[@SWFan77]

True, but where I'm at in Kansas City, MO which is not a progressive city in the U.S. we have some apartment complexes that have EV chargers in their lots in the suburbs. Downtown the city itself installed free for use (yep no cost to use) chargers street side in various locations. As well there are some downtown high rise apartments that have parking garages where EV chargers have been installed. I'd have to assume more progressive cities have far more infrastructure for apartment dwellers than we do here. Also, most of the business parks in the suburbs here now have L2 chargers. Where I work there are around 30 L2 chargers just in our office park, including 6 right in front of the building I work at. So many apartment dwellers if they work in these type locations would simply be charging during the day while working. I'm not claiming this solves all problems for apartment dwellers, but in many cities there are definitely solutions for people that don't have at-home charging.

[@hyperdrivee7922]

True, That’s definitely a hurdle. Seem like all the more expensive newer apartments here in vegas offer it. It might be a class thing for a while? Something that needs to be fought for. Then again the UK is adding outlets to all the city lampposts.

[@kurayamisidekick]

Installing power cord outlets in parking lots is a heck of a lot simpler than installing hydrogen infrastructure across the country.

[@johnnypetro9314]

@@kurayamisidekick It's not clear to me. Practically every parking space of every apartment complex and every townhome community with shared lots would need to be retrofitted with 240 volt outlets. Not to mention every single family home too. Regarding hydrogen infrastructure, from a 2016 published paper: "More than 9 million metric tons of hydrogen are produced annually in the United States. The majority of the infrastructure is dedicated to supplying hydrogen to the petroleum refining and ammonia manufacturing industries." I have no idea how well the existing infrastructure could expand to support the new "gas" stations we would have to build.

[@kurayamisidekick]

@@johnnypetro9314 You are correct, practically every parking space of every apartment complex and towncome community would need to be retrofitted, but you don't need 240 volt lines. 120 volts should be fine for 95% of people, and if they need more power, they can always go to any supercharger (or whatever the equivalent name is) station in their city. If your car is parked for 12 hours, 120V can still recharge a lot if not all of your battery. At something like 7 km/h on 120V charging, you can get 70 km of charge on your car over 10 hours. If you live in the same town you work in, that should be enough for most driving, since the slower you go the less electricity you consume, so bumper to bumper traffic isn't a 'problem', unlike ICE engines that have to continually burn gas even if you're not moving. If you live outside of town, odds are you'd have your own garage, and you could have your own 240V line installed. If all else fails, there is always the supercharger network, which will be easier to install than installing hydrogen infrastructure. 9 millon metric tons of H2 are made in the US (mostly from fossil fuels) but the US consumes a million metric tons of oil A DAY. If the average person drives 13,000 miles a year (21,000 km) times 330 000 000 people in the US, and 0.009 kg H2 per KM (Toyota Mirai), we will need 21,000 km X 0.09 kg H2/KM X 330 000 000 people in the US = 62,370,000,000 kg of H2 per year, or 62.4 million metric tons of H2, just for private vehicles. Given that 90% of the H2 in the US comes from steam reformation of methane, it's a rather tall order. Remember too that H2 is far more energy consuming to store both in terms of production and in terms of actually containing the produced H2. You need either high pressure or cryogenic temperatures, as well as more expensive containers able to endure those temperatures and pressures. We can't just dig out the gas tanks and put in hydrogen tanks to convert gas stations, we basically have to have brand new infrastructure across the world, tearing out all the old gas stations and containers and rebuilding them from scratch. Far easier to just run some lines in parking lots. Now for commercial stuff it's a different question entirely, using H2 for big trucks, boats, and possibly airplanes makes a lot of sense, but you won't get gas stations for those so the infrastructure is going to be far simpler.

[@johnd01]

H2 cars are compliance vehicles in CA. An H2 car sold in CA counts as much as 4 BEVs.

[@kl01af6940]

Late 2000s, early 2010s. Diesel was the darling, especially for Europeans, while Toyota was being ridiculed for continuing with hybrid technology. Now? Everyone going with EV cos it's trendy, while Toyota is pushing hydrogen fuel cell cars and is being ridiculed. Not to sound political, but there is a reason why Japan and South Korea are hellbent on hydrogen tech.

[@bowlampar]

Incentive like free hydrogen for a year is useless if it is difficult to find H2 pumps, or the station constantly closed due to no supply of compressed H2. 🤔🤔

[@user-pc7ef5sb6x]

We'll look back 20 years from now and wonder how no one noticed this scam

[@galivantstom]

I read about this about twenty years ago. I was hoping it would be here by now. I saw hybrids and EVs as transitional vehicles.

[@kenbob1071]

@@Capeau Who are you trying to kid? It's the dawn of the Age EVs and they are here to stay.

[@Rsmith420]

@3:07 I cant find the ability to feel sorry for someone that runs into such problems because they ran out of hydrogen fuel. They're the ones that made such a foolish decision to get such a vehicle in the first place.

[@thesneakinmonkey]

Oh, it wasn't just her valley girl accent?

[@gobysky]

One big question is if you spend $200 a month in fuel for gasoline, how much will it be for the same mileage using hydrogen? The bottom line will ultimately decide whether anyone would be willing to use it.

[@kenyup5424]

Let’s eye on watching the development of hydrogen fuels vehicles

[@ristomattikolsi5711]

I'd rather chose natural gas or hydrogen than battery cars.

[@floridaman8500]

Don't buy a hybrid or electric vehicle. It takes tons upon tons of mining to create one of these cars and it actually hurts the environment more. Hopefully these hydrogen cars will be different however.

[@coasteyscoasteys]

Chris Exhausted emissions v no exhaust emission

[@w2385-i2s]

The next step after the Prius is all electric since the Prius has a battery. But Toyota did a 360 degree and when with hydrogen.

[@money58610]

They see hydrogen as the future Nikola

[@wrigman]

They are making fuel cell/hydrogen cars because they are FAR GREENER than electric cars. They have a “Normal” range for a car. They exhaust water out of the tailpipe and don’t need coal fired(still the majority in the US)power to keep them going. I am ANYTHING BUT a toyota fan boy, but they are on the right track with these cars(as opposed to the overnight charging for electric. Yes they CAN BE CHARGED FASTER AT THE EXPENSE OF BATTERY LIFE).There NEEDS to be a greater network set up for the five to ten minute refuel stations across the country. Hydrogen is a more abundant fuel source than electricity.

[@goodtimes333888]

Hydrogen compared to plug in electric is way too expensive!

[@Mustafa2892]

Justin D because the power to charge batteries may not be coming from 100% renewable energy sources

[@goodtimes333888]

@@Mustafa2892 Neither is the hydrogen. My primary concern is getting ICE cars off the road. Cost will get us there.

[@Mustafa2892]

Jimmy Edward not with the help of reformers

[@Mustafa2892]

Jimmy Edward I wish I got paid for this Actually I did a bit of research on this for my final year project. Didn’t choose the topic but learned a bit about it.

[@Mustafa2892]

Jimmy Edward Well I am about to graduate so that would reduce employment opportunities But if I had cash I would buy gold because $ going to devalue, oil, property and stocks going down Only real wealth is gold

[@PravinDahal]

Toyota had an AMAZING chance to do it another way: a battery/hydrogen hybrid. It seems like they missed out. I don't think it's too late though.

[@Simon-dm8zv]

Not really. Nobody would use the hydrogen option because it is bloody expensive to refill compared to plugging it in. In the meantime the hydrogen components would still require maintenance and you keep dragging that weight around every day.

[@PravinDahal]

@@Simon-dm8zv Well, many people did buy this, so it's not nobody. A lot of people aren't considering this not because it's expensive to refill but because they may not be able to refill it for weeks when one of these problems happen. Those who are already considering this would have a good safety net if they had the battery component. Also, the engine in this is already electric. It's just missing the batteries and the charger components. Compare that to Prius, which has two completely different engines which work very differently... and people still bought a whole lot of that.

[@Simon-dm8zv]

@@PravinDahal My point is that if you have the choice, you wouldn't fill it up with hydrogen. If you have a Mirai, there is no choice. You have to put hydrogen in it. Same thing with the Prius: it doesn't drive 1 meter without petrol. "when one of these problems happen" What problems?

[@flipadavis]

I am totally perplexed why the woman Mirai owner who owns a garage didn't just buy a Tesla Model 3. It has the same range as the Mirai but she can fill it up in her garage. And there is the nationwide Supercharger network spaced out every 100 miles or so along every interstate in the US. Plus it is far more powerful with better suspension and handling, seats 5 and has more cargo capacity.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Probably some smooth talking sales dude saw her coming and sold her it.....

[@Evan_5.7]

Because it’s a lot more renewable. With all these electric cars we will be required to build more power plants to run every car. It’s just too much and not good for our environment. This is 100% renewable

[@asranimediatravelandentert3792]

That's simple . EV are temporary due to it's range anxiety and longer charge time and limited battery life and high battery replacement cost . If Toyota is successful in building Hydrogen car that can fully replace ICE car and has no range anxiety and required similar time as ICE car gas fill up, that will eliminate limitation of EV's

[@felixnuwahid9879]

EV will win

[@Brian-om2hh]

What utter garbage.

[@wyattloftin106]

Electric vehicles are forward thinking. But hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are extremely forward thinking. More than people realize. I’m going to get an old AMC Pacer as a project car to test a propulsion system that uses a hydrogen fuel cell but works a bit differently, and has a lot more going on. Should be a fun science experiment.

[@franzjosephquiapo1271]

EV vs Hydrogen it's like VHS vs Betamax or DVD vs Blu-ray

[@chrisgriffiths2533]

FJQ, Not Exactly because Transport is One Billion Times the size of Video Data.

[@tonystanley5337]

Its not, Hydrogen is many times more expensive than batteries. Hydrogen is just a Ponzi scheme, noone ever gets paid except the first investors and thats only temporary. The physics behind Hydrogen just means it costs more becuase it needs more energy than a battery, that can't be improved.

[@phil-zz5hk]

i could buy a hydrogen car today . one huge problem , the nearest fuelling station is over 100 miles away in birmingham

[@thedeveloper2513]

If I were to choose between a brand new Toyota hydrogen car and used Tesla... I would go for the Tesla!!

[@SharukhSaifi]

Who cares what you choose

[@thedeveloper2513]

Sharukh Saifi you!

[@Unknown-nh8fj]

Question is. Can i have a supra in the future...

[@skiran69]

@@Unknown-nh8fj with hydrogen,yes.

[@Unknown-nh8fj]

@@skiran69 big yes. Hm I was thinking of making a car company mainly for hydrogen sports cars.

[@rolandthethompsongunner64]

Interesting piece. I’m wondering how much hydrogen the US could produce domestically ? Could it meet moderate demand?

[@gianul]

There would be an alternative to fart in the tank nosel, see what that brings 😏😃

[@garyo8546]

AOC would introduce a bill in congress prohibiting that and all the democrats would vote for it .........

[@kenbob1071]

@@garyo8546 Enjoy your "freedom" of farting into the tank nozzle while you can. 'Murrica! P.S. Didn't I see you on tv rioting inside the Capitol Building to get rid of democracy?

[@Swarm509]

The interesting thing is that I am in the residential building industry and there is a push away from Natural Gas and towards a hydrogen-natural gas blended fuel for home heating. This lets company's transition to a hydrogen heavy fuel as time goes on, and keep selling a product to costumers and using the pipe lines they have (and spent billions on). With all of this hydrogen being produced and moved it makes sense to transition a large percentage of people to a electric/hydrogen car. Hell this could be a way to get industrial (farms/etc) to switch as well.

[@roccociccone597]

That woman with the glasses is literally complaining about being an early adopter. Don't buy a hydrogen car if your dance class is that important.

[@alexmelli8253]

Love the way the American Toyota people say “we” as if they’re doing something. Japanese design / make it all, leave the PR spiel to the locals...

[@TheEwanMC]

Except the Supra ... it's made by BMW.

[@tpholland]

Toyota is forward thinking and trying to get to ZERO emissions. It is a risk and California is the test market. I applaud them for their innovation! Best of luck Toyota!

[@bobbyclem2801]

It's only a matter of time before hydrogen catches on and I would try to take the lead early as well. But the U,S. is always the last country to develop and utilize anything that benefits the public at large, we only lead the world in military tech , computer tech and gadgets as far as marketing is concerned.

[@youknowwho9247]

Hydrogen is inferior to battery powered EVs in pretty much every way imaginable.

[@bobbyclem2801]

@@youknowwho9247 depends on who you talk to.

[@youknowwho9247]

@@bobbyclem2801 I talk to engineers and physicists.

[@bobbyclem2801]

@@youknowwho9247 good for you , then you should know that hydrogen vehicles haven't been fully developed , and hydrogen fuel is far superior than something that has to be charged every day. But ev' s have the advantage simply because they have been in development for years in trial and error and hydrogen vehicles don't get nearly the attention .

[@youknowwho9247]

@@bobbyclem2801 That's absolutely incorrect. Fuel cells have been in development for ages. The idea simply hasn't become popular. And there's a simple reason for that: The math doesn't work out. Hydrogen fuel cells at their hypothetical maximum efficiency are still performing worse than lithium ion battery powered electrical vehicles *today*. In other words it's impossible even in theory, let alone practice, for fuel cell tech to ever best electric cars. And that's just the energy side of things. From an engineering standpoint, electrical motors are hugely superior to any system that relies on burning fuel. I'm not going to go into all the detail here because KZbin comments aren't really a format to do this, for obvious reasons. I can tell you though that this 'EVs are bridge tech' and 'fuel cells will eventually solve everything' meme is nonsense. It's marketing and disinformation strategically deployed by the industry giants to slow down the transition to electric transport.

[@pablorodriguez5510]

This video fails to mention the most important issue here. Hydrogen prices are extremely expensive. Even if economies of scale can cut the price of this gas by 50% its still will be more expensive than gasoline. The idea it’s good but in the short run this is not feasible. Unless Toyota figures out a way to make Hydrogen production cheaper this will not be a successful investment for them.... Hydrogen fuel prices range from $12.85 to more than $16 per kilogram (kg), but the most common price is $13.99 per kg (equivalent on a price per energy basis to $5.60 per gallon of gasoline), which translates to an operating cost of $0.21 per mile. Let’s take this further. In average (In the USA), a gallon of gas costs $2.58 vs $52.89 for a gallon of hydrogen. This is %2,050 more costly than gas. Let’s say that because of demand and economies of scale this price becomes %50 cheaper to $26.45 per gallon. It’s still unaffordable for most people. With millions of investment, a lot of time, and maybe a miracle they would have to reduce the price to at least 95% in order to compete with normal gas cars.

[@RyanWolfFerguson]

Yes, why use an already available infrastructure to power electric vehicles that is running to every home?(thick sarcasm) I'll never be able to fill up my hydrogen vehicle at my home like I've never been able to fill up my gasoline vehicle at home but everyone can fill up their BEV at home with as little as a $500 cost to install. I haven't had to visit an actual charging station since having my electric vehicle for the last 3 years. what do you think the cost would be to add a hydrogen fuel dispenser to my house? What do you think the cost would be to fill that up?because the electric company gives me a discounted rate when I charge my car between certain hours which works perfect for me.

[@AnalogueKid2112]

Ryan Ferguson I have an EV and only drive about 25 miles per day. I’ve been totally fine with a Level 1 (120 volt) outlet already in my garage. $0 spent!

[@RyanWolfFerguson]

@@AnalogueKid2112 that is what I mean, why add the inconvenience of having to go to a station, the new station is the home. HEVs have no place in today's world in my opinion.

[@loungelizard836]

Even less than $500. I paid $200 on eBay for a level2 (220 volt) charger that plugs in to any dryer socket!

[@lsfornells]

Do any of you realise that there’s not enough electricity production (by a long extend) for electric cars if all of a sudden all petrol based cars were replaced?

[@Brian-om2hh]

Quite right. You can't get hydrogen from solar either...... Like you I charge at home. I never used a public charger yet, despite there being a number of them in my nearest town. Some are even free to use, but I can't be bothered with the heavy traffic....It costs me peanuts to charge at home through the night on cheaper rate, and I'm ok with that.

[@WalterBurton]

Why?! HFC vs EV? How is this question not already settled? What could possibly be the incentive for consumer-market HFC vehicles? 7+ years ago? OK, maybe there was enough uncertainty. But today? I don't get it at all. I must be missing something. ELI5, please.

[@idlehandsarizona]

Humboldt State University has a hydrogen fueling station on campus, and is on the forefront of this technology.

[@charlesbrightman4237]

@Homo Quantum Sapiens Here again, as in the other thread to you, check out my Twitter page under the same name as this comment to see how you are wrong.

[@charmander777]

@Homo Quantum Sapiens I agree

[@jesusislord7526]

Stan Meyer made the water car aka water fuel cell back in the 80’s. He figured out how to separate the oxygen molecule and hydrogen molecule with an electric current. The vehicle powered off the hydrogen.