Why Italy's Demographic Crisis is Getting Worse

[@kjkj4725]

Answers: 1) households need 2 working parents (no time for raising kids) 2) High rent costs 3) Even higher property and mortgage costs 4) stagnant wages 5) bad work conditions for parents (flexibility and home office are rare on job market) 6) often high child care costs You can’t have kids when you give away at least 50-80% of salary to landlords. You can’t have kid’s when you work all day (what’s the point?). You can’t have kids when you are not sure if next month you will still have a job… Older people as well as governments need to get real. Millennials have to be literally millionaires to own a house… This economic situation is outrageous.

[@kyliepechler]

Good points.

[@The_king567]

This is really exaggerated none of that is the reason why or the reason why and you have no idea what you’re talking about majority of millennials already own a house stop wanting to be oppressed

[@t.c.4321]

The economic point is not accurate. If economics was an issue, how come the poorest countries have the most children ?

[@Fluffyfeathrrr]

@@t.c.4321this is because having many children in poor countries is economically beneficial. The children work the fields, do housework, work from an early age to earn money for their parents. On top of that, many do not have access to contraception

[@Bdavis2475]

​@@t.c.4321it's not that simple. Have you ever been camping? Having 8 people in your group is hugely beneficial because one can do laundry, one can fish, etc. In a developed society we often live in a single small family. One woman and one man. No cousins or uncles or grandparents. It's simply not possible to raise 5 kids especially if the woman has to work too to pay the rent. Poor countries make kids work. In the us kids get to rest and play but only if the parents can afford to raise them well. Its costly. Dental visits. Minivan. Soccer practice. Organic food. One or two kids is the max.

[@Priception]

I love how governments will do absolutely everything but tackle the actual problems causing the demographic crisis

[@squidsquad6286]

The actual problems are that young Europeans refuse to give a shit about the future of their country and family. Immigrants in our countries don’t have these “economic issues” preventing them from having kids even though they are usually poorer than the natives.

[@jeremytrepanier2202]

The true reason is simple but you can’t face it

[@Priception]

@@jeremytrepanier2202 You're sorta right on that. In that if you actually addressed the problems it would directly piss off Older Generations (Since they are the root cause) But for a politician, that would be suicide since Older People make up a far larger voting block. We are stuck in a death spiral.

[@dabourashed]

Then explain it, genius.

[@HK-gm8pe]

I am 27 year old woman...I dont live in Italy anymore...noved back to Northern europe but the reason I dont have children is because I hardly can get by myself....and prices are only growing , same goes gor my boyfriend who I have been with 5 years...if government wants me to have children then they need to make right conditions for that

[@nk53nxg]

Why is this called a fertility crisis, it has less to do with actual fertility. This has more to do with cost of living crisis putting people off having children. We are all locked into a financial system that has even put reproducing out of reach of most people. Housing and energy costs are far too high compared to wages in many Western countries. Employment is very insecure along with huge cut backs to the state putting help for parents at the back of priorities. A population full of old people and no children is a very sad population indeed.

[@eloiinvestigates]

Prison planet controlled by banks and united terrorists.

[@Jinz3]

It's a marketing/propaganda tactic. Saying fertility implies that the core of the issue is people as opposed to the system (capitalism) which requires infinite growth leaving time for nothing else.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

Now, we can't really blame the Italian population for this, can we? They're just trying to keep up in a fast-paced modern world. Between high unemployment rates, economic uncertainties, and the ever-rising cost of living, starting a family can feel like trying to find a unicorn in the streets of Rome - nearly impossible!

[@505premoto]

@@Jinz3Was this written by one of those AI chatbots? What if they abolished capitalism in Italy, how would they operate? Capitalism is nothing more than a free market economy. A free market is nothing more than the voluntary exchange of money for goods and services. And you want to abolish voluntary exchanges for involuntary exchanges? Interesting. How would it work? Who would decide what gets made, the market place or the government? What would happen then? What would happen when the best and brightest people abandoned your utopia for a free market where they could be, you know, free to determine their own destiny? What would the government do to prevent that? Build a new Berlin Wall with guard towers and orders to shoot anyone trying to escape? You don’t appear to have given it any thought, have you? Or maybe you are hoping to get one of those guard tower jobs.

[@sirhcsnomde2002]

Yeah they say fertility and I think there is something biologically wrong. It's not that can't simply they aren't due to other more important circumstances. Honestly XD Morgan freeman explained it pretty well in Lucy. When you make an environment to hostile an organism will stop trying to reproduce in order to conserve resources. That is all this is they made the environment to inhospitable for the workers to keep having offspring.

[@itsme.5864]

I'm 32, single, renting a studio apartment as this is the most I can afford. I work at an international company, full time, and earn above average. There is no way I will EVER be able to buy a decent appartment since a huge chunk of my salary goes to my landlord. How am I supposed to raise children if there is no chance to own even a smaller home, ever? Not to talk about other basic expenses like food, etc. Life in general is just too unaffordable for the average people.

[@himmelblau23]

@@toromontana8290 That sounds like good advice

[@zumurudlilit]

@@himmelblau23it is idiotic.

[@grayghost7216]

Thank feminism for this. My Italian grandmother was married at 19, a mother at 21, and a grandmother at 42.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

Perhaps they can organize Pokémon-themed parenting classes. Learn how to handle a Charmander's temper tantrums or how to rock an adorable Pikachu onesie for your newborn. Or they can create Pokémon-inspired incentives, like giving out exclusive Pokémon plushies to families who bring new little trainers into the world. Gotta catch 'em all, but this time, with a stroller in tow!

[@ad_astra468]

@@grayghost7216 Feminism doesn’t change the fact one salary is not enough to raise a family anymore.

[@nerenahd]

She still could have a few kids. But to solve Italy's demographic problem all by herself seems to be a stretch.

[@tripanzo]

Lol😂

[@MasayaShida]

Hah good one

[@balern4]

​@@Benjamin-Outdoors💀

[@paulpowis5914]

😂

[@saveandinvestwithgiorgiolo8375]

Italy is being taken over by feminists. There will be fewer marriages and births in the future.

[@lt2064]

This isnt an italian problem, but rather a global wage problem. Many developed nations are facing the same issues with the same causes : everything essential to living is becoming too expensive for younger generations and work/ education demands are at an all time high. Nobody has time and money for kids. Other countries affected are: Germany, Spain, Japan, China ( yes really), south korea, greece, portugal, taiwan.

[@TheWebstaff]

why is it expensive though? Supply and Demand, there are more people, things get more expensive as its a finite resource.

[@fidelistq]

This cannot explain that in Africa we lack basic things like food, yet we have birthrate at 8.2. If your grandparents waited to be rich before having kids, Europe would have been demise.

[@davidblair9877]

Large metro areas in the U.S. face this problem, too.

[@fidelistq]

It's never a global problem, it's a western problem....the global south are have a population explosion because there is not welfare or pension. The west will soon be replaced by a more energetic people that will have children even not employed

[@alelzarterl212]

​@@fidelistq i don't know but maybe in the majority of the African continent this high birthrate could be caused by lack of access to contraceptives?

[@NbahWasTaken]

25 years old italian with a somewhat good paying job here, Meloni's plan isn't working and it will just get worse, let me explain: 1) As someone else already said here, these policies only address the symptoms of the crisis and not the root cause. 2) Single handedly the BIGGEST and MAIN problem, is, you guess it, the HOUSING-CRISIS. Even with a decent paying job (And salaries haven't grown for 30 years, the worst data in the EU) you can't afford to live on your own/with your spouse, it's just financially impossible, let alone with a children. What people do, including myself, is stacking up on money waiting the right moment to get out of home.

[@dingus6317]

Surely importing tens of thousands of fighting age African males will fix it!

[@banzaaiiiii]

you are going to get replaced by muslims idiot

[@xeon39688]

Cultural issue, improvise

[@cazwalt9013]

Exactly. I think housing prices play the biggest role here

[@siegfried7951]

The same in France, with just a little delay compared to Italy.

[@user-li6kp7qv5k]

In this situation a couple can hustle to exhaustion and still not be able to afford or to provide for the family, it's high time we start to invest in our future, and not listen to what the government or the media say.

[@MaryLinda-my5td]

The government don't give a f**k about how we use to survive, them wants us to give birth to more children, when prices of things are going higher everyday.

[@robertl.anderson]

We don't have to depend on the government to provide, we should all invest in different kind of business, stock, real estate,gold etc,

[@robertl.anderson]

In that way we can give birth to as many children as we can , and be able to provide for all of them

[@Tony.martin831]

​@@robertl.andersonyeah, that the best thing to do in this situation like this, but if I may ask how can someone get to know expert to provide direct entry in the market

[@eddiet.campbell]

​@Alan.WallaceYou are true; they can have a substantial impact on an individual's portfolio. MRS AVA KIMBERLY” was my first trust financial advisor. According to the US Investment Act of 1940, her work ethic is acceptable, and she is verifiable. Her open-book strategy allows me to entirely own and control my portfolio while keeping costs relatively low in contrast to the profits on my investment.

[@ArturoSubutex]

A lot of those "natalist" policies seem to miss half the point. Before even thinking to have babies and benefit from these schemes, people in their late 20s need to have a stable financial situation -- ie an "indeterminato" (a permanent work contract) and a home, ideally by their mid-20s. But 20-something Italians living in Italy can hardly dream of that. They typically live at their parents' and work successions of internships and low-pay short-term contracts. No VAT cuts on diapers is going to make them more likely to have babies. To start tackling the heart of the matter, you'd have to introduce schemes that make it easier for young people to find a stable job and have their own home (eg tax cuts for companies with enough under-30 year-old permanent workers / tax increases for companies that don't do that). Alternatively (or additionally), Italy will have to raise its legal immigration rate, at least a little bit. But this doesn't look like a very trendy solution in Italian politics at the moment, to say the least. EDIT: to make it clear, I'm not necessarily advocating for more government handouts here. Tax cuts for companies that have more 20-somethings with permanent contracts could very well be financed by tax increases on companies that don't. And that's just one example. I don't have the pretense to know which scheme would work best. All I'm saying is this is a crucial part of the natality problem, and yet it doesn't seem to be taken into the equation.

[@Mak095]

I don't think many people are against legal immigration of skilled workers, the issue is that there aren't many who'd want to work in Italy for a low wage... We also seem to forget that previous generations had families of 5-10 people living in the same house. Nowadays everyone wants to split and live on their own. But if it were still culturally/personally acceptable to live with your parents and have new children there as well we'd see a better natality rate. It's easier to pay for one house and food when you're in 3-4 working in the same household.

[@jacksonthesyndicalist2771]

​@@Mak095it's also worth noting thay the US would have a similar demographic crisis to Italy of not for net immigration

[@the_styler1]

The issue isn’t immigration, but rather ILEGAL immigration.

[@inbb510]

I don't think that is true. You only have to look at the Nordic countries to see why. There, everyone pays a shit load of tax to have a very generous welfare system but their birth rate is not that different from Italy's or Spain's. In Finland and Sweden, childcare is very affordable and free depending on some criterias you meet. But even then, the birth rate is 1.6 and 1.35 respectively. Pretty much on par with countries like UK and France where they don't have these massive investments in social programmes. The truth is that we live in a society where we can make a choice whether to have kids or not. Therefore, you will always have a statistically significant segment of society who won't have children no matter what the government will give them. Since most people who do want to kids only want 1 or 2 as a maximum, the birth rates will be guaranteed to stay below replacement level. This also explains why the Nordic countries have got *close* to attaining replacement level but never reach it and never sustain that increased rate for a significant amount of time. The hard truth that Gen Zers and the government don't seem to want to admit is that this is a cultural issue rather than an economic one. Nigeria has a birth rate of 5.0. Do you think this is because the government is giving them loads of free money?😂 Of course not. It's culture!

[@TheEverFreeKing]

​@@inbb510you're definitely right and you're pointing out the flaws with these people coping over it. The policies that they're pushing really make no difference at all they're just policies that they like unrelated to the real issue at hand. The truth is Western countries are just less religious thus their birth rates are collapsing and they're going extinct. Religiosity is the highest predictor for fertility within every population on earth. The more secular your country is the less fertility you have, it's the same as castrating yourself.

[@jlstout7807]

Remember when they used to say technology will make productivity increase to a point where we won't need many workers?

[@azahel542]

One person will do the work of ten, they said. You won't have to work as much, they said... What happened was that the economy grew 10x and now one person has to do the work of 20 back then to sustain it.

[@silent.one_8087]

is it another reason to become a socialist?

[@venetoaward]

Turned out you only have more unemployed people and the rest worked twice as much

[@wiryantirta]

the problem would be that the owners (and enjoyers) of said "productivity-increasing technologies" are often corporations... and lets just say they're reluctant to be taxed.

[@aalhashmi90]

They were right. 1 person can do the work of 10, but the saving from that only effected the pockets of the Shareholders.

[@pinchyh]

Millennials and Gen-z can barely afford rent, what makes you think they can afford children?

[@ludicrousreality0]

reallly lazy

[@doom8082]

@@ludicrousreality0 Quite. Really lazy reply indeed.

[@adrianbundy3249]

@@ludicrousreality0laziness isn't the issue statistically. They will put in effort where they see a point. Being dead ended at these jobs starting out with fewer prospects for real advancement than let's say 20 years ago, where hard work does not actually pay off in some jobs, and sometimes will only make you looked down on (believe me, I've already been through two jobs where this was the case for me). And things like owning a home are more out of reach on these incomes than ever? On top of student debt that never used to be like this crippling them from the start? Yeah. Then you tell them to slave away anyway, for what exactly? No, they are not lazy, and people who say that generally don't have a clue what the actual problems are on this spectrum of topics.

[@ToneyCrimson]

@@ludicrousreality0 They dont owe you children, even if they could afford it.

[@ayouberriouch5973]

Economics plays a huge role but i don't think that's the main reason for having less children. I think the biggest reason is ideologic. most women can't afford to be pregnant and take care of children because it will threaten their careers.

[@Darthspike88]

Same problem in Spain. My father had a normal job and could afford to buy a house a car keep 3 children and save money. Now my wife and I work. I have a manager position. And we get much less money than my father and everything is getting crazy expensive. Here the richer are richer and the middle class is more poor every year. Its more money than before but less people have it.

[@pachycephalosauruslover14]

both of my grandfathers had 2 and 3 children respectively on a single trade job income. both of them built their own house. i have a better chance of winning the lottery than replicating what they did in today's economy

[@Darthspike88]

@@pachycephalosauruslover14 The difference is that my fathers boss was winning x2 of his salary and my boss is winning x10 of my salary.

[@LucasFernandez-fk8se]

Same problem in the US. Look at boomers in the 1990s. 4000 square foot homes (400 sqmt) that sold for 250k. They made like 60k combined income (two parents working) and could afford that. Nowadays most households make like 85k and mediocre homes are 400k. The 4000 square foot family home is now 850k-1.2 million. The cost of living is fucked. The Anglosphere used to have a high birthrate because of all the 3000+ square foot houses (300 sqmt) and the large cars. Now the houses and SUVs are unaffordable. It’s ridiculous

[@melovetorun]

Oh God please learn to use commas and punctuation!

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

But here's the thing, my friends, Italy's demographic crisis is a bit like a disappearing rabbit trick gone wrong. If the rabbit stays hidden for too long, the magician's act loses all its charm. Similarly, if Italy's population continues to shrink at an alarming rate, the country risks losing its vibrant cultural heritage, its sense of community, and even its ability to field a decent soccer team!

[@icesystem7]

when you have to stay in line to get a loan for 30 years to pay for a crappy apartment and be at the mercy of a employer to keep a steady income so you don't loose the apparent.. how in the world they think people want to have babies? is that complicated? make housing f***ing affordable.. how you expect people to work 8h/day if they cannot afford to have a house?

[@kapsi]

But that's communism, which killed 800 trillion people

[@BananaArmsMcNess]

Absolutely. This should be the first thing any country wanting to boost fertility rates does. My partner and I can't afford to have more han one child because of the cost of housing

[@anti-emo4721]

@aidancollins1591 When owning an apartment become "being wealthy"? Huh?

[@JasonAtlas]

Bot. There are no studies supporting this inverse correlation that have a large enough sample size to be conclusive. There are however studies that show the correlation between job security and child births in the middle class. You can look at the US study comparing 20 year olds inside and outside the military along with the number of children they have.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

Ladies and gentlemen, let's dive into the mysterious world of Italy's demographic crisis, but this time, we're throwing a Poké Ball into the mix! That's right, we're going to capture the connection between Italy's population plunge and those adorable Pokémon creatures. Buckle up, trainers, because things are about to get interesting!

[@dresdenkiller]

When you pay people peanuts, they can’t move out of their parent’s apartment, where you can hear neighbors fart. It doesn’t take a lot of analysis to fix the problem. Pay people living wages.

[@mr.gnome60foe53]

People have always been poor throughout history. Yet it was common for People to have very large families with up to like 6 kids

[@baz1184]

​@@mr.gnome60foe53because having kids to work the fields increased income, nowadays having kids decreases financial security rather than increasing it.

[@TheEverFreeKing]

​@@baz1184this simply isn't true, the reason why people are having less kids is because of lowered religiosity in the western world. Religious people in the same countries are having huge families despite often being even more poor. The greatest predictor for fertility isn't wealth it's religiosity this bears out in every population on earth.

[@gwendolinkirkegaard1812]

@@TheEverFreeKing yes it is true. Children were workforces and the only security for when you’re old back then. That is not the case any more - like at all. Children now cost ressources instead of helping to harvest them.

[@meep1809]

Africans are paid peanuts and exploited but they have a lot of kids. It’s not about money.

[@nickdaboss03]

Could you imagine being offered 50-175 euros to have a baby, when the average cost to raise a child is well over 150,000 euros?

[@azmodanpc]

More like 250k when a degree is factored in and no healthcare problems.

[@dattilo1]

it's monthly, and I think it lasts until they're 20 or so, so it adds up to 175x 240 months: about 42000 euros

[@Teapode]

Lol, Tldr made a mistake. It is 50-175 euro per month :) Until age 21. So 22 000 - 77 000 euros per child. Would sound outrageous to give 50 Euros for child and expect a fertility boom :)))

[@counterleo]

@@Teapode If you sell it on the black market you can get much more Just kidding FBI no need to put me on watch list

[@yarpen26]

​@Teapode I figured it was another research failure on their part considering their nonexistent proofreading. Even in Poland you get something like 150+ € a month. Always love how they keep bringing up how the stuff they talk about is too complicated for our puny monkey brains to comprehend so we should subscribe to Brilliant. Wonder if they actually even have an account there? 😂

[@giannisquillace9068]

Italian here. There is no such thing as "making kids" where work isn't paid a living wage and work contracts may or may not be renewed every 6 months.

[@scottdavis3571]

Everybody blames the immigrants, when it's the immigrants that keep the economy from nose diving.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

So, maybe it's time for Italy to turn to its secret weapon - amore! Yes, love and romance can help solve this demographic puzzle. I propose a national campaign called "Operation Baby Boom." Let's spread the message far and wide that having kids in Italy should be as exciting as winning the lottery or finding out there's an extra cannoli in the box!

[@scottdavis3571]

@@PoisonelleMisty4311 I don't want kids.

[@evilds3261]

@@PoisonelleMisty4311And you assume we can even get good relationships? Nah, if anything, corporate culture has taught me that humans are expenses and if you want to make money you need to reduce expenses to increase your earnings and savings.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

@@freespiritedd This statement is extremely irresponsible and dangerous. Encouraging people to have more children without considering their financial, emotional, and social well-being is reckless and can lead to serious consequences for both the parents and the children. It is important to prioritize the well-being and future prospects of any potential children before bringing them into the world. God may indeed bless children, but it is the responsibility of parents to provide for them in every way possible. Promoting such a mindset can perpetuate cycles of poverty and hardship for future generations. It is essential to promote responsible family planning and support systems to ensure that all children have the best possible start in life.

[@bl9150]

I just had my first kid and am a millenial, not that old. My company just announced they will give fathers 18 weeks full (or 36 weeks half) paid leave per child, on top of 20-26 weeks paid parental leave from the government (shared with the other parent) that can be taken over a 2 year period after the birth of each child. Theres even a childrens room on site, and considering there are laboratories etc thats pretty amazing. People I work with have 2+ kids on average and theres a massive culture of hanging out with the kids. Im looking forward to having more kids! This is in Australia btw

[@billy1168]

awesome, im aussie and me and my gf both want four kids. Even if the cost is high when were are in our 30s and 40s, long term itll be worth it since when we're old we will have family to look after us

[@jayc342009]

It's good to hear fathers are getting some love in Australia

[@churblefurbles]

Doesn't work because it just drives costs up and unemployment in general, only a few luxury workers benefit.

[@Reazzurro90]

And this is how you solve the crisis. Giving people actual time with their families. Not giving them a daycare so you can work 10 hours a day and barely see them.

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

You know what I got in Switzerland as a dad? 0 days off. Zero. It's 5 now but yeah, that's nothing...

[@TheTrueMacedonian]

Governments doing everything but building more affordable homes because they themselves own a lot of property's and dont want the housing market to come down to realistic prices.

[@WL113]

"Governments" doesn't build houses unless you're in communist country. Houses are build by commercial companies. If commercial company doesn't see any profit from building - they won't build houses. That's it.

[@jayc342009]

Many businesses buy up properties as investment which takes them off the market, property should not be used as investment. People need affordable housing.

[@雀-t6c]

@@jayc342009 Their viability as an investment would plummet if we remove the regulatory barriers on where and how we can build homes (at least in the US). The last thing we want is even more direct government involvement.

[@IconoclastX]

I want to get on a discord call with one of these "People don't have kids cause of housing" people; and get them to tell me with a straight face that they truly believe this is the reason nobody is having children. I mean, their are no other more relevant and pressing cultural devleopments that caused people to suddenly stop having kids? It was really just housing? Uh oh, I've questioned this particular part of secular liberal dogma; my brain has committed wrongthink. To think that a specific group of people could have been very wrong about this specific social development for the past 100 years is simply terrifiying. Let's continue to think within the bounds of acceptable thought comrade; lest we be renegades.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

But let's not forget about the declining birth rate, my fellow trainers. It's like Italy's Pokémon breeding center has turned into a ghost town. The storks are showing up with empty beaks, wondering where all the little baby Pokémon-uh, I mean, humans-are hiding! Maybe the Italian population has decided to focus on collecting rare Pokémon cards instead. Gotta catch 'em all, but only if they come with shiny holographics!

[@MarkVO]

These solutions address the symptoms and not the underlying problems as they don't incentivise BECOMING parents. People who are already parents aren't the one who are going to push fertility rates above what they already are, as they are already parents. The issue is helping or alleviating concerns that would-be parents have: job security. If I know I'll be able to raise children in a stable economic environment in which I can earn more money, then I'm more likely to consider it. My partner and I are on an indefinite hold to have children (we live in Italy) as there's just too much uncertainty. I also think giving parents money "per-child" incentivises childbirth for the wrong reasons. We've seen this in countries like Poland and the UK where people will just have children to receive benefits and not actually raise a stable and productive family founded on love.

[@egorfominykh2180]

Idk, people in Africa and Gaza have much-much more uncertainty yet they are shooting babies like crazy compared to the developed world

[@jasonhaven7170]

Except the money doesn't incentivise childbirth. No country has reverted back to above-replacement fertility. It's simply impossible. The fact is most people want 1 or 0 children. Immigration is the only solution.

[@conorwhite2066]

Yep once you feel secure and stable enough to pop out the first then the second comes Problem is not low birth rate as in women are having less babies It's persons who are choosing not to have kids - childlessness cause of the costs, insecurity and modern society expectations

[@conorwhite2066]

@@thotslayer9914well they do say the only people that have lots of kids are the very rich or very poor Most people in the middle are stuck and squeezed

[@christopherwilson88]

Hell, the per child money is a joke anyway. 50 euros is nothing. It's a meal out for two at a low priced restaurant.

[@unitedbolts8053]

43yo italian here. I have a university degree and start my business 12 years ago full of dreams. I simply cannot grow the business. Covid makes me go back in time around 8 years. Now taxation is out of control, If the income grows, also the taxes and business cost grow, making everything pointless. Too much regulations makes the work difficult. In 12 years I could not acquire any personal assets, only a 30year mortgage. I will definitely not have kids under this situation and I am seriously thinking of leaving the country soon.

[@MonikaTyagi-mw8ie]

Where will you go? 😊

[@davidblair9877]

The three big problems from my perspective: 1). Job insecurity. A lot of entry-level jobs offer contracts for only one to two years. This isn’t long enough to plan for a family. Hell, it’s barely long enough to meet a partner, if you don’t already have one. 2). Location insecurity. Today, it’s very common for young workers to change cities for both education and professional reasons. This prevents the long-term stability necessary for planning a family. 3). Housing insecurity. In major metropolitan areas, which is where most desirable jobs concentrate, housing prices have grown far faster than wages. This means that “younger” workers continue to rent well past the age when their parents had placed down payments on a house or condominium. This is linked to income and wealth inequality. Income: as the highest-paid workers continue to see their incomes grow, they outbid younger workers for the limited real estate available in a city. Wealth: those who own a house seek to keep the value of that commodity high, and thus oppose any measure which could reduce prices. Since the highest-paid and wealthiest persons in a community tend to be older, these two tendencies effectively price younger workers out of the market.

[@IconoclastX]

"why does the sun revolve around the Earth" "because of job insecurity". Buddy, I think your reason is leaving a bit of context out. Remember, we live in a society where women are explicitly told that they are equal to men and have no obligation to their country. I mean sure, maybe poor finances are a reason but that didn't stop people in the past and it isn't a sufficient reason for people to willingly dive into population collapse like it's a birthday cake. That's sign of cultural rot and decay from decades of teachings on hyper individualism and a cruelly indifferent attitude

[@neocortex8198]

the young need to overthrow the elderly why the hell is the vast majority of wealth in society owned by retirees, i wouldnt be as pissed but 2/3 of the 1% arent active entrepreneurs they are retirees. Im leaning on the idea of banning retirement at least for anyone with under 3 kids

[@captainvanisher988]

Nope. Nope and nope/ The two big problems are 1) Feminism. Most women put off having children to chase a career and have sexual freedom 2) Materialism. People are richer than any time in history besides maybe the 70s-2000s and bring up as an excuse economics. No economics are not the issue, you just value wealth a lot more than you value family and children.

[@neocortex8198]

@@captainvanisher988im of the view that ideally couples should ideally share a career that way they can essentially take each other's place directly if needed be. However id argue infidelity should be treason especially if you have kids with someone

[@captainvanisher988]

@@neocortex8198 Prior to no fault divorce, infidelity was grounds for divorce so I kind of agree with that. It always depends on the situation though and if kids are involved. Ideally, the wife shouldn't work full time if they have children. But feminism destroyed that option for most women nowadays.

[@DarkMeyer777]

Every Government: Hey tell us what you need to maintain the population Society: hey things are getting very expensive to raise a family Government: Surprised Pikachu face Society: Surprised Pikachu face Government: please ask something easier like national smile campaign bcos smiling makes you happier naturally and we encourage everyone to smile more

[@pachycephalosauruslover14]

Government: Best i can do is cheap labour from 3rd world countries so your wages can keep stagnating and corporations don't lose a tiny bit of their profits 👍

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

Singapore has some nice examples of well-meaning but extremely cringeworthy campaigns to get people to marry and have babies. All of the campaigns failed. If Singapore couldn't reverse such trends then I can't see which country will be able to.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

In all seriousness, though, Italy's demographic crisis is no laughing matter. It's a complex issue that requires innovative solutions, support systems for families, and a whole lot of love. Let's hope that Italy can find its mojo and turn this population plunge into a population party!

[@sumomaster5585]

@@PoisonelleMisty4311 it's a simple matter. sooner or later ppl will figure out a way

[@ekesandras1481]

The only solution would be a massive housing program to get Italian young adults an own appartement and not letting them stay with their parents until 35 or 40 years old.

[@offroadsnake]

The most young italians live outside what you're talking about 😂😂😂

[@danjal87nl]

One might almost think it's a socioeconomic issue rather than a fertility one... 🙄

[@LUN4RA]

@@danjal87nl right, because it is

[@gregvanpaassen]

And to raise wages so that median wage of a 26-year-old can support a family of five, allowing for annual holiday. That is what the parents of the baby boomers had in the Trente Glorieuses. And that's partly why there was a baby boom then. The solution is obvious to everyone except the rich.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Free housing for married couples could work!

[@vaticinus]

Giorgia Meloni has only one child. She has sacrificed motherhood to pursue a career, now she is trying to convince other women not to do as she. Total waste of time.

[@t.c.4321]

For the greater good of her country

[@picachuface]

I think over eating pizza and pasta are the main cause of low fertility.

[@mandolorian9893]

If you make decisions that turn out to be the wrong decisions wouldn't you try to warn younger people?

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

I was going to say the same. It's maddening that she can't see people like her are part of the problem. I am not saying she should have started having kids when she was 18 but women doing what she does (having children outside of stable union and well into their 30s rather than 20s) has a real life impact on the number of children born and therefore on demographics. Particularly as it's not isolated to Meloni herself but a large scale phenomenon in Western countries: women who have their first child in their 30s are not going to have more than 1 or 2. There couldn't possibly be a worse person to promote attitude change on such an issue. Even Berlusconi would have been more credible.

[@ilonat8373]

Angela Merkel and Kamala Harris don't even have children. Most women in politics don't have children, it's an exhausting job.

[@mevaseba69]

Young couples who want families can't pay rent prices and are unable to save for their own property. Nobody wants the shame of condemning their child to such an existence, born into servitude to pay landlords.

[@alphacentauri3162]

The thing i m saying for decades:. if you want to boost you need to give a free apartment for couple with >3kids this way people in rent house will get free apartment for just three kids and id both worked is worted cause the rent is almost 60-70% of the wage now

[@ericjohnson7234]

like feudalism aint it? i remember klaus shwab once stating, You wil own nothing and be happy. Sounds like feudalism to me.

[@GWT1m0]

@ericjohnson7234 He isn't stating that as fact. He predicted the emergence of Landlord capitalism. Only the people with capital from birth will be able to truly own anything, resulting in a new landed gentry

[@MetallicReg]

@@alphacentauri31623 kids is a tall ask. Try to deal with 2 in todays economy.

[@mevaseba69]

@aidancollins1591 my point was fundamentally less confusing than speculation on what's missing. I FIRMLY believe the moral dilema of actively enslaving your kids to a life of evictions and landlords is a driving factor for the majority. ( the rich aren't the majority) . Having a moral compass that includes a sense of both accountability and Propriety (for the decision to have children) transcends statistics. And without the ability to support their kids, many future parents opt to remain childless as a matter common sense

[@pluc99-pl99]

In 12 years of working in Milan I was surprised at how many of my male colleagues in their early thirties were going in for fertility treatments to have a baby. None of them went for a second child and I don't think that financial incentives would have worked to induce them to go through that stress a second time.

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

Not Italian, but from another big-money city and have one kid too. As a parent, let me tell you... The amount of hostility and lack of support parents receive is mind boggling. Most people are downright hostile to kids, the angry stares everywhere, lack of infrastructure from stroller ramps to toilets to spaces in public (esp transport). Childcare is not only eye watering expensive, it's also unavailable (have to sign up a year or two in advance). The constant obsession about money, careers and how no one wants or even likes kids. Then add the inherent stress of juggling job and family... No wonder people don't have kids.

[@banzaaiiiii]

@@mysterioanonymous3206 social media and hypergam is the answer

[@pluc99-pl99]

@@mysterioanonymous3206 The stress and expense I get but I can’t imagine a place that’s hostile towards parents and children. That’s certainly not my experience anywhere I’ve lived.

[@francismarion6400]

Isn't Italy the homosexual Capital? The religion of Michaelangelo

[@millevenon5853]

@@francismarion6400 Italy is very homophobic. it doesn't even have gay marriage

[@Bb13190]

None of this measures treats one big part of the problem. Italian stay longer and longer at their parents' home because they cannot afford to move out. And almost nobody have a child while living with their parent.

[@meliacogan1586]

That is a very good point.

[@ГражданеООНСССР]

​@@meliacogan1586🕳️🌎 America is no more 🕳️.

[@doncarreradelavega299]

As an italian I can say it's only a money factor, children cost too much for a young italian. Also there is the possibility that in case of divorce (which is like 50% ish) a man would be literally drained all of his wealth to pay for the other side of the family. So it's just better to not have kids.

[@barondino4628]

It's NOT only a money factor. The new generations don't see starting a family a life priority like before, that's why there is no solution to this problem.

[@gabrielepopa6870]

Bravo, è solo questione di cuotura e mindset.

[@doncarreradelavega299]

@@barondino4628 money is 90% of the problem. I would try yo have a family if that wouldn't mean maaking my condition worse than now. Having kids means you have to pay at least 50/60 thousands euros for school, doctors, university and everything they will need. If I don't have a decent job that grants me that, there is no way i'm going to get poorer than now to have kids.

[@AlanAndalon]

Hungary 🇭🇺 found a solution to this

[@eloiinvestigates]

You Italians have the same insane divorce laws? Interesting.

[@Spong388]

As an Italian, our basic weight for unskilled normal job (I remind you in case you forgot or you didn’t know this, Italy is specialist in low skilled low paid jobs) is around 1000-1200 euros per month. I also add that since these are low skilled jobs, there is no competition because literally anyone can do that job, so this leads to workers who think they are “blessed because they got a minimum paid job with no future, no carrier and mostly without even a contract that lasts more than 6 months” A basic renting outside a big city is minimum 400-500 euros per month, without counting energy and any tax this country has. So people just stay at parents home because it’s the only way to live a decent life without having to “work to survive” and there is no fix to this because this country, sadly, is a failed country. Meloni is the best rappresentative for a failed country that prefers to blame Europe or literally anyone else, instead of just making some self criticism. Also let’s not forget a lot of young Italians escape from this country, and they are totally right. I’m studying too for escape Italy because I had really enough of this country 😂

[@counterleo]

How is there no competition? Are you saying it's easy to land one of these entry level jobs? In the rest of the world, jobs which "anyone can do" are the one with the fiercest competition... And ask you to have 2 degrees and 5 years of experience to work at McDonald's because there's 10000 other applicants anyway

[@xeon39688]

Such a bad example running away and all that, the issue is culture and the ideology

[@f_society91]

Shut uppppp! When Meloni became PM the country was already in very bad situation, don't forget that this problem started decades ago, so is not Meloni's fault. And also don't forget that the country was leftist in the last ...I don't know, 10 years? The low rate fertility has nothing to do with money, it's cultural. People (but especially women) don't have the desire to have kids. The country also has a relationship crisis .

[@Spong388]

@@counterleo I'm currently a "winemaking specialist" with a degree in Herbal Science and from 10 years I'm working constantly at random jobs cause none ever even gave me a job interview for my studies; these jobs are different like I dont know, assembling medical devices, de assemble automatic vending machines etc, they're always jobs with bad contracts (Literally they give you contracts where they can rid of you at any moment without any real justification) and that last usually 3-6 months, maximum one year. When i "depart" they find 40+ people that cant wait to fill the gap cause maybe they have families to feed or because in Italy when you're over 35yo you're old and none want to hires you, and these people will accept ANYTHING for a job. And no competition i meant no competition for working places, I know for example in the UK it works differently.

[@chefnyc]

Unfortunately there is no easy answer. If you want more jobs, you have to make it easy to start a company, bankruptcy, hiring people, laying off people, etc. Ideally, it should be relatively easy to be an employer or an employee.. if you notice that there are 40,000 applicants to do any task, you become an employer. Maybe Europe made it too difficult to create jobs.

[@ochi1133]

€50 to have a baby is a better joke than even a comedian could write

[@AdrianMoran]

What puzzles me is that in spite of this "crisis", Italy still has one of the highest unemployment rates in the EU, particularly among youngest workers. That says there isn't a real shortage of potentially productive workers.

[@caezar55]

Its much lower than it was though. They used to have twice as many unemployed. But there's also a huge black market in Italy, so many who claim to be unemployed might be earning cash

[@scottdavis3571]

The employers just want to keep paying less.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

And speaking of shiny Pokémon, let's talk about Italy's irresistible lure. I mean, who can resist the enchantment of the Colosseum, the romance of Venetian canals, or the mouthwatering pasta and pizza? It's like Italy is using "sweet scent" on travelers, but instead of attracting Pokémon, they're attracting tourists who just can't resist the country's charm. Maybe they should consider putting up signs that say, "Welcome to Italy! Please breed responsibly!"

[@jalalfouani]

I live and work in Italy and not a day passes by without questioning whether I should stay or leave. I feel like I'm working just to get by paying rent and utilities. What's worse is that government policies do not really favor "side hustles"... Can't even imagine having a kid through all this fiscal pressure.

[@federicoascolani6457]

Sounds like a third world country.

[@ChiveDumpling]

This is what happens when you cater to corporations rather than people lol

[@tibsyy895]

Politicians are really idiots. You need to provide cheap housing forever for couple to consider a family! That's it!

[@sarahann530]

Who is going to pay for this cheap house for you and your spawn?

[@herrkulor3771]

And a place where you can live and work to be settled.

[@anthonyberry9132]

They cannot afford children ,also political instability creates fear for the future.

[@museli_addict]

Ironically it is the richest and most stable countries in the world which say they can't afford children.

[@chrismangwanda4777]

It's ironic tho don't you think that people who live in war zones or even under dictatorships have more children than people who live in a democracy. Even if you take the worst fear of say a Trump , he won't hold power for more than 4 years and that's it.

[@bregothehorse6158]

Weird that, isn't it?@@museli_addict

[@MrBrockHeinz]

Italy has been far poorer and less stable in the past, yet that is when birth rates were at their highest.

[@squidsquad6286]

But immigrants who come to our countries have over 2 kids on average? Something doesn’t add up.

[@1MTed]

Very simple, it what happens when 98% of the pizza is held by 1% of the people and then they give those people scraps to fight over

[@noldo3837]

Give young people chance to live as people. Solved.

[@giorgioguercio3331]

They still won't make kids.

[@alaeus2310]

​​@@giorgioguercio3331Moved away from Italy 3 years ago, settled in a country that pays an actual living wage for my job (engineering). My partner (28 M) and I (26 F) will discuss having kids over the next two years. Turns out that, if salaries aren't in the gutter and the bosses don't exploit workers down to the bone, people will have kids. Fuck Italy. I will never return to that sexist, racist, disrespectful shithole of a country.

[@The-Cat]

because its already too damn hard to survive WITHOUT kids @@giorgioguercio3331

[@greasybrownie]

@@giorgioguercio3331 it would. a huge reason why young people in the west won't have kids is the anxiety of our current state. Can't have kids if both parents work 10 hr days 5 day a week while still living 1 bad day away from homelessness

[@inbb510]

​@@greasybrownie, it won't. You are assuming that if people have more time and money, there will be more births which may be true to an extent but it will not achieve a birth rate that is above replacement rate. Most people just want 1 or 2 children. Since having children is a choice, you will not persuade people who want to stay childless to have them no matter what benefits you give them. This is why the Nordic countries have not managed to surpass a birth rate even close to the replacement rate, let alone for a sustained period. The issue with fertility rates is a cultural issue. Not an economic one.

[@alelzarterl212]

The solution could be to reduce the amount of hours worked (thus increasing the time that could be spent raising kids and decreasing the stress associated with work) per week, increase buying power (lessening the economic burden of having kids), improve the housing situation by adding price limits on rent and mortgage, taxing the rich to a higher degree to improve the quality of public services and add a minimum wage

[@taipizzalord4463]

If housing rent did not take 1/2 of take home pay. Maybe there would be more kids

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

Basically, we need wealth redistribution back to the young. But every time there is an opportunity to do this, the governments go against this.

[@kyliepechler]

Exactly.

[@IconoclastX]

if modern people had basic skills or abilities or the desire to learn them then maybe they could build their own homes; save their societies from demographic destruction, and stop complaining about how they can't do something when they have the internet and world class artificial intelligence at their finger tips

[@Patrick-y4d1z]

@@IconoclastX Right, and where exactly would these people build their homes? There are laws literally preventing that.

[@IconoclastX]

work and save, buy land, build your house. If you're not allowed to build your own house then the government is tyrannical; then in which case you need to overthrow your government. Repeat until you've overthrown the government or died trying. Solution complete.@@Patrick-y4d1z

[@tothboy01]

Wealth and resources are finite. The 1 percent hoards their wealth and bosses get the profits instead of them being evenly distributed among the employees/workers. Its like having 8 slices of pizza and having one person taking the whole thing instead of letting each person get a slice.

[@captainvanisher988]

Average uneducated commie-

[@evilds3261]

@@IadoreU-TodayTake the guys who deliver the pizza hostage and hold them for ransom in this analogy.

[@JonathanHart-n4t]

I will not have kids until it is affordable for one parent to stay home for 18 years. It is that simple.

[@paolosavino22]

As an Italian Meloni just didn't think about that kids are really, REALLY, expensive and we just can't afford them. Until the wages rise we italians can't have children AND have a decent life. Moreover parents need a good work-life balance to manage a child and work. We just can't have this right now. We work a lot of hours for such low wage compared to the rest of Europe and compared to the cost of living. We young people also don't want to have childern, we already have a lot of mental health problems to deal with

[@jaughnekow]

Best solution is financial stability in the country.

[@clutrike7956]

Children are not “really REALLY” expensive lmao folk used to have 12 children raised on dirt & twigs 100 years ago. The simple problem is the female sex’s access to state benefits.

[@fatautisticcow4147]

oh stop bullshitting, it's not about the money, if that were true then you would have above replacement level fertility during the 80s and 90s which is blatantly false for italy despite being economically strong during those years. people in italy had more than twice the purchasing power they have today in the year 1995 yet they had a fertility rate of 1.19

[@MinecraftMasterNo1]

Money is not the answer to the demographic crisis. The richer the country, the worse their demographics. This is a statistical fact.

[@museli_addict]

@@MinecraftMasterNo1 Ironic that it's the countries earning the most globally that use finances as a scapegoat. No one ever discusses the real cause which is that the more developed a country becomes, the less women want to date men in the first place. The cost of living is at an all time high, yet living alone without a partner to split the rent is only increasing. So clearly economic problems aren't the cause.

[@dmaluev]

Well, even if you can afford renting a house and have a decent job, that doesn't automatically imply that people would want to build a relationship with you, create a family and have kids. There are obstacles on so many levels.

[@IconoclastX]

correct someone finally gets it. It's not about finances; it's about the sickness and selfishness of these women who are so hyper focused on themselves they'd be okay with causing their nation and race to go extinct. You get it; although not really; just halfway probably. You understand it's the women you just don't connect the dots about how that's selfish and evil.

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

But here's the thing, my fellow trainers, the Italian demographic crisis is not a game. It has serious consequences for the country's future. Just imagine a world where the only Pokémon battles you see are between two old grandpas arguing over who needs the motorized scooters more. It's time for Italy to level up and find creative ways to encourage its citizens to step up as future trainers and breeders.

[@aar0n709]

Referring to men and women as breeders is a huge huge no no

[@korymalone6591]

Curious that Italy gets most of the press on this issue but that the exact same dynamic is playing itself out in Spain as well.

[@lagringa7518]

Maybe if the rich in Italy would stop offshoring industries, payed decent stable wages so that workmen and the educated would remain or offer affordable rent/houses/daycare... couples could actually have the incentive to have children. Perhaps we could also mention their obsession with pricey bureaucracy, so that everyone who works in government gets their fat cut from those trying to actually create or improve something before they can ever start.

[@neocortex8198]

its not the rich that are the problem well not the 1/3 of rich that still work its the fact that literal retirees on average have a better standard of living then workers. id say raise the retirement age by at least 25 years as well as ban it outright for the childless

[@kloatlanta]

@@neocortex8198work til age 90? Makes sense

[@evilds3261]

@@neocortex8198 That would be political suicide. There are more old people than young people and raising the retirement age would infuriate them and then they would vote for whoever was against the idea. Also, childless people may be incapable of having children rather than choosing not to have them.

[@neocortex8198]

@@evilds3261honestly a lot of people are infertile because intentional sterilization is normalized. id argue that the sterilization of any healthy individual outside of a punishment for a crime should be banned under penalty of death. Its time to do the unpopular thing and have a "young revolution" no more working the literal same job as a boomer for 1/5 of the pay, no more giving the richest generation in history all the money that the young need to start our families. This has to end or there wont be anything left its just going to be a vicious cycle of elderly people demanding everything be paid for by the young. Something needs to snap. Something needs to break the system and reset it

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

Now, if you're familiar with Pokémon, you know that catching 'em all is the ultimate goal. But it seems like Italy is taking this challenge a bit too literally. Instead of trying to catch all the Pokémon, they're on a mission to catch all the aging citizens! It's like they've swapped their Poké Balls for retirement homes and nursing facilities. Gotta catch 'em all, but only if they're 65 or older!

[@1LastMile]

Telling Everyone to wait until you are 40+ to have kids is a bad idea ? Who’d of known

[@flyingbananas]

I'd add that Meloni's party opposes the introduction of minumum wage, which could help everyone but especially young people to have a stabler income, many temporary jobs offer ridiculous paychecks that only slow young adults from becoming independent. Asking for a mortgage in Italy as a

[@makkerfelix]

the idea that people are just not having enough sex and the government has to step in is undeniably funny

[@jrspringston]

Well, it's not the lack of sex lol. Look at the data charts you'll see a steep drop in births in the 60's and 70's which is (in my opinion) directly due to the invention of birth control. Now people aren't accidentally cranking out kids left and right, they can choose to wait till they're financially ready. Which leads to problem #2: everyone is too broke for kids 😂

[@SaintLorena]

It really is kinda funny. 😂

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

In all seriousness, though, Italy's demographic crisis is a complex issue that needs attention. It requires support systems, incentives, and a whole lot of teamwork. So, let's channel our inner Pokémon trainers and help Italy on its quest to increase its population. Together, we can ensure that the Italian Pokédex is filled with not just rare and ancient Pokémon, but also with the laughter and joy of a new generation.

[@sumomaster5585]

men seem to be struggling on that front and both with having stable families

[@dojelnotmyrealname4018]

Fertility is directly correlated to overall wellbeing. That simple.

[@sslaia]

What more is that young people I met are not interested in discussing important topics like these. Every time I raised the issues like the low fertility rate and the low involvement of young people in politics compared to other countries in the EU they just show indifference. As an Italian this makes me really sad.

[@luismadeira3101]

Because many EU young people don't feel adapted to have kids, people are having kids much older in their 35s, in their 20s people are still climbing up on their careers and learning to be independent, maturity and independence and job security is harder than before.

[@thereita1052]

​@@luismadeira3101it's rather because of a lack of intrest in politics. In Italy apathy rules the land

[@nazneenzafar743]

younger generations don't owe old people anything.

[@gilgameschvonuruk4982]

@@luismadeira3101 seems like a failure of the education system, which turns us into puer eternus

[@Ar1AnX1x]

like the dude above said, a big part of it is kids being really expensive, and this isn't like 50 years ago where people lived like animals constantly pumped out kids, people just thought they had to get married, now people know getting married doesn't make you happy unless its with someone they know and want, its not just that there's something deeply wrong with how it is today, its also that people back in the day over did it, a lot of people would also get married to get out of poverty, let's not act like they were doing it right back in the day.

[@astot-c1r]

it's very simple , no one could afford anything, let alone a family , those corporate policies and low pay are killing europe.

[@JimVanderveen]

How about instead of "tax the young workers!", we properly tax the corporate/wealthy evaders.

[@evilds3261]

Because they won't like that and then they will increase the price of their goods and services to indirectly make young workers pay their taxes on their behalf. So, the only way to counter this would be for young workers to increase the price employers must pay to have access to their labour to indirectly tax the corporations.

[@herrkulor3771]

Stop tax altogether. Politicians have proven themselves to use it very wrong.

[@christopherbowen2547]

Homo sapiens lived in tribes where children were raised communally. Only in urban industrial is responsibility for a child entirely individual. Family is not enough. Only when child raising is entirely funded by the society at large is population growth feasible at scale.

[@eltecnico9541]

Families used to be larger, there were grandfathers and grandmothers collaborating in raising children, the family became smaller and smaller as society became more individualistic.

[@tomtom02121]

Isn't it weird that Meloni talking about christian families while she's the one who doesn't even bothered to marry her child's father? 😏

[@pachycephalosauruslover14]

typical conservative hypocrite

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

Had a child out of wedlock, was almost 40 when the child was born. Yeah, perfect spokesperson to encourage women to have more children at an earlier age!

[@NormanInAustralia]

True. Meloni can't solve the Italian demographic crisis single-handedly. She answers to an electorate, to political parties and probably to several business interests. The policies described in this video are typical for developed countries facing declining population and, as in other countries, won't work. In Australia, professional training has become more and more arduous over the last couple of decades, so most people with degrees aren't fully qualified until they're in their late 30s or early 40s, which is growing quite late for women to have babies. Besides, after sacrificing the best decades of their lives, many people want to finally have some holidays and do some fun things, rather than just raise kids. Furthermore, in Australia, government policies over the last 30 years have lead to housing becoming very difficult to afford ( through rapidly rising house prices, strong inflation and stagnant wages). When people can't afford a decent family home, they're far less likely to choose to start a family. Simply throwing dollars at this problem doesn't work. It requires the far more difficult task of challenging some very powerful interest groups and entrenched practices. It involves societal change. I suspect that Australia will fail to increase births but will compensate through immigration and raising the retirement age (both of which are contentious).

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

"I suspect that Australia will fail to increase births but will compensate through immigration and raising the retirement age (both of which are contentious)." You are right, and this is sadly the default setting for the entire world because pension systems were poorly set up in the first place. Politicians are not interested in anything that does not bring short term benefits. I also expect taxes to keep rising to fund ever increasing pension burdens... which will in turn further discourage working adults from having children.

[@azRomanEmpire1]

High unemployment for young people, expensive cities…difficult to tackle these problems

[@BOOMER751]

From a French standpoint (Paris), most of the people I know who are in their thirties/early forties have 1 kid, maybe 2, sometimes 0. The only people I know from that age group with 3+ children live in distant suburbs, in regional cities or in the countryside. Urban dwelling and the cost of living (mainly housing) are a major Factor in the global fertility decline. France has maintained a higher fertility rate than the rest of Europe until 2015. It is now declining at an alarming rate although Italy and Spain have it way worse.

[@kenchambers7137]

Some so you’re saying most people in France are either having 1 or 2 kids ?

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

it is not just a question of cost. If you had your first baby late - and 35+ is completely accepted today in spite of being late - you're unlikely to be having many more. Even if you want to, even if you can afford it. There's that thing called Biology. The average age at which couples have their first child has shot up dramatically and this in turn has large scale repercussions on overall births.

[@BOOMER751]

@@kenchambers7137 I would say yes definitely in the Paris region most people are having 1 or 2 kids max. In the rest of the country things are slightly different with a higher amount of larger families.

[@BOOMER751]

@@oldskoolmusicnostalgia The increase of the mean age of women at first birth is on the main reason of decreasing birth rates in the developped World because of all that you explained. Beyond the freedom of choice and planning provided by birth control, which is great, it has been proven that this increase of the mean age is motivated by the raising cost of having a family. People are waiting to be financially stable to start a family. So yes, cost is a major factor.

[@kenchambers7137]

@@BOOMER751 do you think having are having few kids by cultural or because west they can afford ?

[@bluedragontoybash2463]

Summary of this video 1. Italy is facing one of the worst demographic crises globally, marked by the lowest fertility rate in Europe. 2. Prime Minister Georgia Maloney came to power with the explicit promise to end Italy's demographic winter. 3. Low fertility rates, below the replacement rate of 2.1, create economic and political stress due to a smaller, older population. 4. Italy's population has been aging since the 70s and actively shrinking since 2014, putting immense strain on public finances. 5. Italy's fertility rate dropped below replacement as early as 1976 and reached an astonishing low of 1.18 in 1995. 6. In 2022, fewer than 400,000 babies were born, the lowest number since unification in 1861, implying a birth rate of about 1.2. 7. Italy's population is old and shrinking, with projections estimating a drop to 52 million by 2050 and under 50 million by 2070. 8. Italy has the highest old age dependency ratio in the EU, creating significant strain on the national budget. 9. Italy's debt-to-GDP ratio is above 130%, and borrowing costs are high, limiting future borrowing capacity. 10. Maloney has implemented pro-child policies to address the fertility crisis, including financial incentives for families and tax cuts on child benefits. 11. These policies include a scheme providing families with 50-175 euros per newborn child and reduced VAT on baby products. 12. Maloney aims to spend 4 billion EUR from the EU CoRecovery Fund on new childcare facilities with places for over 250,000 people. 13. Despite these policies, Italy saw fewer births in 2022 than ever before, and provisional data for 2023 suggests a further decline. 14. The effectiveness of pronatalist policies in other countries, such as China, Singapore, and Japan, has also been limited. 15. The complexity of Italy's demographic decline and the economic challenges it poses raise doubts about the effectiveness of current policies in reversing the trend.

[@thiccupcake]

you lost me at georgia maloney

[@bluedragontoybash2463]

The AI overlord takeover of humanity is going to take a while later @@thiccupcake

[@thiccupcake]

@@bluedragontoybash2463 by the looks of it

[@FantasyandScienceFiction]

"Georgia Maloney".

[@Guitar6ty]

Can be summed up the following way Young people need a decent wage to buy a house and have a secure future. Using mass immigration to push growth is unsustainable and it destroys any incentive to work or have a family.

[@HarithBK]

if you want higher childbirths people need the basics to be cheap. a single income should be able to cover both adults and 2 children no sweat. if that isn't the case birthrates drop.

[@andybrice2711]

Yeah we very quickly went from _“Women should be able to join the workforce.”_ to _“All women should be expected to join the workforce and stay there full-time even after childbirth and if you can’t afford a house obviously you’re just lazy.”_

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Feminists ruin everything, ​@@andybrice2711.

[@theaverageitaliandon998]

@@andybrice2711it’s simple economics, the moment you allowed half the population to suddenly enter the workforce and demand equal wages, the value and thus salary of the individual worker is reduced because he/she is worth less. Supply and demand is a hell of a thing

[@counterleo]

@@theaverageitaliandon998 Eh you are making a brilliant point. Women have always been eating food and consuming products, even before. The fact they entered the workforce doubled the supply of workers, but global demand for goods and services, if it increased a bit, clearly didn't double. So it got out of balance. Never really thought of that. Cheers

[@innosam123]

@@counterleoMarriage rates have also plummeted with the social breakdown amongst young people, partially triggered by forcing children into daycares instead of allowing parents to spend time with their children and low fertility resulting in people sheltering their one child too much by putting all their eggs in that one child-basket (amongst other things).

[@zsteele11]

In Italy they don’t have minimum wages and barely give permanent work contracts. The bureaucracy makes starting a legitimate business impossible. Then the Italians that want more pay leave.

[@taoiseachjager9643]

When youth unenployment is over 30% it is kind of hard for people to want/have children

[@andyasbestos]

We've kinda sacrificed everything on the altar of economic growth. There's just no incentive to have children unless you really really like them. They're bloody expensive and labour intensive. Many of my friends just aren't interested in completely changing their lifestyle, and paying out the nose for the privilege. They get pets instead when they want something cute to care for. In this environment, if you want a steady supply of future tax payers then you better be willing to pay a lot for them. Perhaps to the point that parenting becomes modestly profitable. Because I don't see wages ever outpacing cost of living for the living standard people expect. We won't go back to cramming large families into dank single room apartments.

[@DedsrsBuddy]

Africans can help make the economy grow more

[@ruzzsverion2728]

​@@DedsrsBuddyno thanks.

[@lightlysaltedtaco4786]

@@ruzzsverion2728"id rather see my country die than let filthy foreigners in" 🤣

[@lorenzozinna4700]

Africans cannot even make their own countries grow, they turn them into third world hellscapes. What are you on about?

[@dingus6317]

@@DedsrsBuddythey can also make our towns into African villages

[@josepedrosantiagosilva9625]

In Europe, there's a growing sense of neglect towards the younger generation. They face lower salaries, longer work hours, and increased responsibilities while witnessing a surge in billionaires. The housing market adds to their woes, as property prices soar, making it difficult to afford homes, let alone start families. To compensate, cheap labor from abroad is often favored, leading to frustration among the youth, who feel betrayed. It's high time politicians acknowledge and tackle these pressing concerns rather than resorting to distractions. The younger generation deserves meaningful change.

[@churblefurbles]

and yet...more and more migrants, and Bidens wars.

[@mysterioanonymous3206]

That's the best take I've seen here so far. I agree with you. I feel the money-centric, get-rich mentality has poisoned our society. Money is the new God. Nothing else matters now. It's gotten totally out of hand.

[@ericjohnson7234]

Have you not been paying attention? The RICH DO NOT CARE!

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

Very well put. Children are neglected too and there is almost nothing done to make life enjoyable for them. From a young age they are condemned to a soulless existence of learning at school, then paid work later. I don't have any children personally but I am not one of those "children haters" which other people are complaining about. My heart hurts for them.

[@saratemp790]

One solution is we need to build large, multiple bedroom apartments for families. They had them in the old days.

[@federicoascolani6457]

Then we will need more multiple bedroom apartments for the new born people to avoid the new population reduction again.

[@antoniotorcoli5740]

The main problem in Italy are low wages. Young couples have hard time in finding an appartment at an affordable price and raising a child costs a lot. In order to improve the situation the government had the brilliant idea to increase the VAT on diapers and milk powder for babies.

[@FernanPer94]

Choosing not to have children is preferable to importing individuals with undesirable qualities, as seen in the situation in Sweden.

[@Giuseppe_Paolillo]

Italian here. I live in Milan and I make more than double the national average wage. Still, having kids scares the shit out of me. The cost of renting a house with a room even for one child would be starting from €1500 here. That is more or less 80-100% what the average person makes. In Milan. That is supposedly the city with the highest wages. I am privileged, but I cannot imagine how the average person is supposed to live in these conditions.

[@akay3787]

Not Italian but from a different European country and I am in my late twenties unable to afford a home. Not even a mortgage, I can barely rent. My income is too high for social housing but not enough to pay 1300 a month for a small studio. Why in the world would I have a child under these circumstances? Anyways in my country I’ve met a lot of Italians that moved here because they couldn’t find jobs in Italy so it must be even worse there

[@annaclarke7643]

Most people have done their sums and realise that looking after themselves is hard enough without thinking about children. Economic policies have been ok for employers but for most employees its struggle street. Life is stressful where the future for most people is not very ‘attractive’.

[@__Wanderer]

A large portion of the cause in my opinion is the cost of housing & life in general. Additionally society is poorly structured for children - couples both need to work and pay for expensive day care. This is madness. Day care should be free or women / men should be compensated well for several years after having a child monetarily / and with time to raise the child. Instead countries across europe (like the Netherland where i live) ignore the issue and import more people from abroad to plug the fiscal gap, meanwhile the problem just gets worse.

[@Asafo87]

The non-PC way to fix this problem is to treat retirement as a luxury rather than a right. The elderly either work until they die, live in multigenerational housing while caring for their grandkids/great-grandkids or spend their golden years in state-owned senior living facilities if they have nowhere else to go.

[@brainyskeletonofdoom7824]

And a nation of retired people should vote for that? Sure, of course they will

[@roel1158]

Instead of taxing workers , why not tax the super-rich ?

[@daveseville7394]

No need, build some more homes. Taxing the rich won't work. Everyone just needs to play flat income tax, the rich don't pay their share so they pay the same as poor or middle class people without actuaries or accountants.... not more

[@jodyyy8752]

Lame take ​@@daveseville7394 how would they finance building more homes without taxing those who have more?

[@cinicalviewer6689]

I'm italian, in my 30's and the real problem, for me, is not the lack of politics to increase the birth rate, every goverment had his recipe and thery are always similar. but, numbers aside, the real problem is elsewhere: younger people have no remunerative jobs. many jobs offer pay less then 5 euro for hours for a full time job, and when your contract end is difficult to find a new job. even doctors and nurses in hospitals are underpayed (but no so badly) And if a young person prefer to migrate in other EU conuntry (like Germany or France) right parties says that they are lazy and without willingness to work. at he same time is the duty of a woman towards the State to carry one or more childe (the PM sayed this in a press conference some weeks ago). the incentives that the govern propose are not enough to provide for a child, but if faced with that reality the solution for the members of the goverment party is to make more children to have more subsides. I don't think that the situation will change untill we reform the job market and we encrease the number of permanent contract and we introduce a minimum wage. unfortunately none of these is a priority for the government. in the meantime who can go to work abroad and build a family there and Italy becomes an increasingly older country

[@jacqueslee2592]

The global population will crash eventually as the countries with high birth rate will be unsustainable and social, political, and economic problems will be affecting them. The problem is that Europeans believe due to capitalism and US and EU ideology that economic growth is dependent on population will bring immigration from 3rd world and then supplant the European population, transforming the cultural identity of Europe. Why can the Africans, Indians, and Arabs go to the Arab Gulf and Turkey, countries that are Muslim and wealthier than many Southern and Eastern European nations? These countries are anathema to any culture and ideology contrary to Islam yet they force Islamization? Something is odd, awry, and wrong here.

[@josuerizo1]

I am a Mexican, and I love Italy, I hope I can visit Italy. I love Italian culture, Italy has given so much to the world.

[@sobhitc]

Swede here. I myself can't afford even renting an apartment in the city with 2 bedrooms and you expect me to have children? Yeah right. Switzerland and Norway for example are super expensive, but their salaries are also super high. So it makes sense. But Sweden has way low salaries compared to the prices. Here you get German salaries and you pay Nordic prices. Kids in addition to that? Mind you I am an Engineer with a master degree.

[@DedsrsBuddy]

Meanwhile Fatima and Mahmud have 10 children living off government welfare in their apartment

[@ruzzsverion2728]

Jag har tre barn, du är bara lat och vill hellre göra annat.

[@marcoac-sx6lq]

Here you're opening another topic, that's how low engineers are paid globally

[@tigna7548]

I guess you don't realize that your comment contains the core of all the problem: "I can't rent an apartment IN THE CITY". All people are trying to squeeze into city apartments. The structure of our society makes living outside cities next to impossible, but there's limited space in a city - and cities have always had low fertility rate.

[@laurynasjagelo5075]

@@tigna7548 Not true. I've been working in norway before, and the rural prices a touch cheaper than say big cities. However, the wages, commuting costs are higher, and job opportunities are equally lower. Moreover, many people are trying to move to more rural places, and the pricing is catching up. I.e. Rural scotland housing prices are still ~10-14 times the yearly salary. We're all doomed.

[@DAMfoxygrampa]

Me and my friends would have some kids if it made financial sense but man, it just isn't doable unless you're a doctor

[@laken1804]

Not just Italy, all over Europe.

[@kuro4841]

higher taxes also increases financial strain, causing me to think "i cant afford children". Its kind of like deflation, where I hold on to the idea of children (similar to holding on to my money). Like many others pointed out the real issue is financial stability. I would love to have children, but how do I finance them? I don't need the gov to finance everything, just help me get a stable and future proof job?

[@5688gamble]

Being a parent is basically becoming a full time carer, society does not value this job. In fact, one is expected to pay for the privilege of becoming a full time carer. If you wanted me to be a carer for an elderly person, you'd pay me a wage for it! If you urgently want me to have 4 children, you'd need to support my family, as I do not want to have the expense of raising 4 children and have to work non-stop and never see them! 170 euros doesn't even cover the costs of setting up a nursery and even without VAT, baby products are expensive! You either need more well-paying jobs that allow for one parent to stay at home, or you need to recognize having a big family as a job and pay people who have large families to do it! Tax the rich! Whether you allow the population to decline and find a new equilibrium or incentivize having large families, you are going to need some serious wealth redistribution to enable young people to take on the burden of caring for either the elderly, or all the children you want them to have!

[@marcelroy6034]

In my opinion, the key problem are the prevalence of short term work contracts. You just cannot plan a family or get access to loans without longterm employment stability. It has been a problem for quite a while but due to generational egoism (the older generations benefit from legacy stable and well paid working contracts) has never been tackled

[@jr-yn4lk]

take women out of the job market and fertility rates will rise again

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

may the power of Pokémon help Italy overcome this demographic challenge

[@Goikuchan]

People think twice before they have children nowadays. It's become a choice, not a must. Not so surprising if you look at the world and economy. There's so much going on.

[@akashmohan999]

Nobody even dates or gets married anymore. This problem is far more complex than they realize and its not possible to fix even with incentives. Guys are just on their video games hiding in their rooms and girls are on social media also hiding in their rooms. They don't talk and they don't date or marry.

[@sickandtired1994]

Exactly.

[@jamesronaldo2855]

This is just false maybe that’s how you act but not me bud

[@akashmohan999]

@@jamesronaldo2855 not every single person but most people.

[@jamesronaldo2855]

@@akashmohan999 you probably

[@IconoclastX]

Wait, you mean to tell me that in the most prosperous and rich nation in the world the reason people aren't having kids has nothing to do with poverty?? Noooo, way!!!!

[@davidmoore2699]

I'm not sure about your point on taxes. Taxing young workers more as fertility decreases makes sense if wealth and income is broadly distributed, but actually the share of wealth belonging to workers has been shrinking for decades. It would seem that to afford services for our aging population we need to tax where the wealth actually is, that is with the top 1%.

[@Heatwave9000]

The wealthy aren't bound to one nation which is the issue with globalism. Raising taxes on the wealthy 1% will only cause unemployment to increase because they can emigrate easily and move their businesses abroad.

[@VũAnhNguyễn-e3g]

people who argue that since poor countries have higher birth rate then economics is not the reason for low birth rate miss the point that people generally want better parenting than their childhood, and better parenting includes a spacious house and so many other things

[@hardshell9236]

You don’t need a macmansion🤦‍♀️two bedroom is enough for parents and two kids.

[@mariosvourliotakis]

Much is similiar in Greece. The policies are fairly miniscule compared to say Sweden's and the economy is also completely busted for the vast majority of people. The working hours (average is 2000 a year, not far behind South Korea) are far too high to consider having children in the small shitty apartment most greeks have... Our current birthrate is 1.26, and in ten to twenty years an enormous percentage of the workforce will retire so thats gonna be real nice..

[@jacqueslee2592]

The global population will crash eventually as the countries with high birth rate will be unsustainable and social, political, and economic problems will be affecting them. The problem is that Europeans believe due to capitalism and US and EU ideology that economic growth is dependent on population will bring immigration from 3rd world and then supplant the European population, transforming the cultural identity of Europe. Why can the Africans, Indians, and Arabs go to the Arab Gulf and Turkey, countries that are Muslim and wealthier than many Southern and Eastern European nations? These countries are anathema to any culture and ideology contrary to Islam yet they force Islamization? Something is odd, awry, and wrong here.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

@@jacqueslee2592 Middle Eastern countries definitely do accept migrants from those countries and in fact immigrants are a majority in countries like Qatar, UAE and Bahrain. As much as 88% of UAE's population is immigrants (mostly from the Indian subcontinent) Having said that I definitely agree with the first part of what you wrote: the policy of "bring in immigrants to finance unplanned and overly generous pension policies" is a disaster.

[@julesmoto9022]

Those policies don't even approach what we have in Australia so they are pathetic. Seriously a few hundred Euro for an 18 year commitment. Get real

[@l-kin3480]

What are Australia's policies?

[@alex_zetsu]

I don't see this as "getting worse" since low fertility (even by European standards) was something that Italy had and knew about for some time.

[@sh0werp0wer]

The problems of low fertility rates don't manifest instantly, it takes decades, i.e. until recently baby boomers have been of working age, it's now that these people are going off with pensions, that the crisis really kicks in.

[@baronvonjo1929]

Im starting to think one aspect that gets forgotten beyond the unaffordablility of everything is the declining mental health of the worlds more developed economies. Maybe not for every nation. But I think not having kids is a side effect along with many others of mental health decline and a pessimistic outlook in the future. I also wonder what it will be like in several decades with millions of old people and not as many young people. Governments will pander to the elderly. Government services will decline. Millions of old people will no doubt be alone and depressed with no family and declining motor functions. Innovation will decline. Those young kids will have it bad. Their kids or grandkids might have a Golden Age if somehow a new way society to function comes about because it was forced to look at what brought it to near collapse and find a solution. Or maybe there wont be a solution and entire nations will collapse?

[@JamesR1986]

50 to 175 Euros per child? Wait I don't get this, their idea to incentive childbirth is to give them free groceries for month? And cutting taxes on childcare?

[@counterleo]

I assume it's 50-175 per month

[@polloman15]

I still think that the biggest disincentive for having kids is actually the time investment. I would like to know if there’s a country that has tried to apply policies to reduce the time burden of rising a child.

[@jr-yn4lk]

The biggest disincentive for having kids is the participation of women in the job market. If they are working, what's the point of getting married?

[@PoisonelleMisty4311]

Now, I don't want to sound like a cynical comedian, but Italy's demographic crisis is not just about Alain and Sofia's tempting allure. It's a complex issue that requires societal support, forward-thinking policies, and a shift in priorities. Perhaps Italy should consider hosting nationwide events where they showcase not just the beauty of their celebrities, but also shine a light on the beauty of parenthood, the joys of raising children, and the future of their beloved country.

[@xAnonymousComedia]

The thumbnail killed me hahahahhaha

[@michaellawrence588]

Regarding your statement at 3:38. South Korea is in the OECD. As of 2020, its birthrate was 0.84, much less than Italy's. Their government reported in February 2023 that it has now fallen to 0.78.

[@staryimoze]

I guess that 46 year old woman with 1 kid knows best why birthrate is so low. Not sure if she knows how to fix it tho, since she would have applied this solution to herself already. Or she "knows" how to fix it, but does not want those solutions to be applied to her, making them useless. I mean, she has money, so that ain't the problem for her.

[@meliacogan1586]

You make a good point.

[@ang1795]

Wow, what a sexist bullsh*t. Would you check the same for a male politician? Do you think someone with 4 children would be better to solve this issue? So a divorced lawyer is better to sort out a divorce, than the one who's more professional but still not even married? Now let's play and turn your line for a second. She has only one child. What if she couldn't have more in this economy and she wants to fix those issues? And no, I'm not her fan, far from it, I just hate the sloppy sexist arguments.

[@IconoclastX]

I like how the question of why the birth rate is low always avoids the causal agent(the women) making the decision to not produce kids. It's always as if women don't have agency and they're simply not having kids because the government didn't provide enough benefits. If their is a major threat to society such as a hostile nation invading; men will be instantly drafted for war. But when women are literally causing the destruction of society by not doing their function as women and producing children; they can just neglect that responsibility. Not only is modern equality faux, fake, and stupid; it's also evil and deceptive.

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

You've summarized my opinion better than I would have had. On top of that she had her first child at 37 or 38, and out of wedlock (I am not pro-marriage at all, but marriage does allow for a more stable foundation to raise children). Doesn't leave much room for having more when you had the first one so late. Meloni is the worst example of "do as I say, not as I do".

[@Itsunobaka]

though my look at the issue is admittedly cursory, i've noticed historically there have been demographic spikes in periods of optimism, like after the second world war, or a little less so after the end of the cold war. no one wants to bring children into a society they think is dying. i wonder what impact outlining a vision for the future that inspires young people would have. all this, of course, in addition to childcare policies that enable young people to work and pursue their dreams while raising families, and a culture that encourages sharing childcare burdens between spouses (we know that the number of children is dependent on the spouse who wants them least, typically the female spouse). these are preliminary observations, of course. i think many are right when they say there's both an economic and cultural dimension, but i also think there's a political dimension. no one is looking to bring children into an increasingly unstable and warming world

[@oldskoolmusicnostalgia]

Exactly! There was a consensus that existed post WW2 which strong government intervention in the economy and living wage jobs. People felt hopeful and more willing to bring children into a world that had bleaker aspects but appeared on clear path to progress. There is no such hope to be had anymore, the best you can hope for a child - if you have any - is for them to be a wage slave toiling to meet living expenses or an entrepreneur.

[@sumisusan1517]

Might as well make a whole EU demographic crisis vid. All parts of EU have issues w/ this

[@walsch80]

I am italian and I can explain this situation really in a good way. I am 43 and when I was 40 I decided to create my family. My wife is a polish born in Ukraine. I though to be ready and prepared. But the reality teaches me that I'm not. In Italy in the last 20 years didn't grow up the salaries but the inflation grows with a +20% at least in the last 3 years. With the chance from italian lira to euro we lost 50% of our purchasing power. After the cost for rent and to buy an apartment it has suddenly doubled. After this the EU imposed our country the budget equality in constitution and forced immigration. The consequences of those political madness were easy. The state has stopped investing and the immigrants created a downward wage dumping. Another fatal blow to our economy has been done by the relocation to eastern Europe where the cost of labor is much lower. This has therefore created an unimaginable economic crisis. Today we have the cost of living in a northern european country with a balkan country wages. The AIRBNB platform destroyed an ordinary citizen's ability to rent. Owners prefer obviously to profit from short-term and zero-risk rentals. After 20 years of career as accountant in a multinational my salary is 1800 euro pro month (x14) and it's enough to survive. But the average salary in Italy is 1500 euro. Obviously it also depends on the area because in southern Italy salaries are much lower than in the north. Plus this the state give social bonus too, but practically are exclusive for the use of immigrants because it's a minimum income thresholds practically impossible for anyone with a decent job. The conclusion? In Italy you can make a family just if family give support or apartment. Without? You are alone and misery near. My wife had to stay at home 3 years because kindergarten was too expensive. How much? It was 600 euro pro month, basically a part time salary. And value that if child is sick and someone must keep care of him, all costs are on the family. That's why in Italy just muslims make children. They consider a child simply a granted income of money. Why? In Italy if you have a child you bring money based on income. If mother and father are unemployed but with 4 children our stare pays around 1500 pro month. That's the fact. To safe my counrty to the dark hole or to safe italians to the replacement my country should go out from EU and start serious policies for work, home and family. That God safe Italy and other countries of Europe in the same situation...I hope to give my son a future worthy of being called as future. But it's a mission impossible. In my month the cost are more than 1600 euro. So what's remaining me? Maybe just the drops..

[@albevanhanoy]

In order to have a family, you need to settle down. In order to settle down, you need to have a home. It's as simple as that. Fight against landlords and real estate monopolies. Slash housing prices. Make housing affordable again. Do that, and I *guarantee* a spike in birthrates.

[@sambones1092]

And a partner, most young men are incel, women have now very high dating standards

[@captainvanisher988]

Italy has one of the highest rates of property owning amongst citizens and that's because of inheritance. Saying that housing is the issue is a cope out. Feminism and materialism is.

[@evilds3261]

@@sambones1092XD Yeah, so if the government wants kids, it will need to give young men their own wives instead of expecting them to get one through dating. That would fall apart very quickly.

[@evilds3261]

@@captainvanisher988Also, children are not profitable. They are not an asset, they are a financial liability. Besides, you can save more money on rising food costs by having fewer mouths to feed. We should not be producing humans we do not need.

[@tutatis96]

Whats the point of high fertility if anyone who gets a degree plans to move abroad in search of a decent salary? I think that we have to accept that freedom and opportunities for a rich life are going against having a family, and that should not be a problem to solve. I'm italian, 27, I got my degree and a successful career but I don't foresee myself having kids before I'm like 45, if ever. I want to go for other degrees pursue different careers and live around the world avoiding duties and responsibilities as much as i can. To me, right now, that's what a happy life is, being able to do what i want where i want and stop when I want. Saying that my perfectly legal and ethical idea of happiness is a problem is a bit weird, and doesn't make me actually do anything, I got my salary, I got my savings, I got my passport, the government has no power over me on thia

[@ticijevish]

The higher the price of real estate, the lower the birth rate. True fact across all cultures and time periods. If you want birth rates to climb, tax empty housing and spend money on building new homes that are given to young parents at an insultingly large discount - basically, the land and permits given for free and the cost of the home being just the actual cost of construction.

[@martonlerant5672]

Taxing empty housing in itself wont alleviate predatory lending. Property owners pricingnrent on the basis that "well its a necessity in cold climate" so they pay whatever i ask".

[@IMajidAhmadKhan]

you are partly wrong, developing countries where rent are less still experience sharp decline due to financial exposure

[@frantisekhajek6775]

​@@martonlerant5672Not true, with less empty houses, there is a bigger supply on the market.

[@gabry96colo]

@@frantisekhajek6775 in an economy where families do not have a stable income and bureaucracy is so slow that the landlord has to wait for an average of 1.5 years to evict someone, leaving a second home empty instead of renting may be more profitable. that is also why rent is expensive, no one wants to risk their propriety for peanuts. Also revenue from renting is heavily taxed

[@NimrodClover]

I snickered when the stock video of boats in Venice showed one boat running into others already docked. See it at 1:01. (clump of docked boats on right side of channel)