Why John Brown Really Wasn't A Hero

John Brown is remembered fondly in American history as a martyr who sacrificed himself for the cause of abolition, and often we hear asked is John Brown a hero or a terrorist, with his crusade against slavery very commonly held above the horrendus actions he committed, especially by more liberal historians. Because of this, Brown's crimes and questionable character are swept under the rug or excused in the name of abolition, but if we look past that, simply at John Brown's actions and intentions, we find a man who was either mad or just plain evil. This is why John Brown really wasn't a hero, for his role in the outbreak of the Civil War, for the crimes he committed against civilians, and for his very own conspiracy to secede from the union.
Jonestown Video: • Jonestown: The Civil R...
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#civilwar #history #ushistory

[@MrAsianPie]

You mean I can get away with literal terrorism if I hold the "correct" beliefs?

[@mazza3571]

Nessecary evil that helped bring an end to the ownership of my people and push discourse further?

[@Islamphobe]

@@mazza3571slavery couldn’t have lasted more than 50 years regardless. It’s an incredibly inefficient system and there are better ways of causing social change than violence.

[@wmarshal2802]

This such cowardly response, were the founders evil terrorists?

[@eliice1715]

Yes 🗿

[@user-jv3mm6vt6e]

​@@mazza3571 This is what the modern right has lost. You have a trust in yourself to be the originators of the values that have no place being there if not for jesus christ. Jesus was God. He died for people, he didn't kill them in their sin. Right now there is a greater WAY more fierce oersecution of orthodox christians in Ukraine and every priest's words of prayer is "lord have mercy and light on them". You are like Dawkins, you want the fruit of civilization but not the tree. Repent.

[@Mohamed_amin120]

>Underground railroad was against the law So? Unjust laws should not be obeyed.

[@mikesmnell414]

That wasn’t his point lol

[@Mohamed_amin120]

@@mikesmnell414 So what was the point? Like disobeying the laws regarding both Slave escapes and assisting escaping slaves are so unreasonable (all Humans desire freedom when they are detained for 0 reason) that breaking them is morally okay.

[@mikesmnell414]

@@Mohamed_amin120 No that historically it existed.

[@Aman-oi3re]

@@Mohamed_amin120these losers are still mad they can’t enslave people

[@natenae8635]

@@mikesmnell414You know what else was against the law, The Boston Tea Party. But nobody has a problem with that.

[@just_a_turtle_chad]

John Brown got radicalized on Reddit

[@NickASchwab]

Those antihuman control freaks know no bounds don’t they Mr Turtle?

[@Yourlocalwordrobe]

John Orange

[@josiahdenney1686]

I have feeling we have been in the same reddit comment section

[@Jamhael1]

John Brown IS a radical - for desiring to end slavery by putting a bullet in the head of slavers while preaching the Bible in XIXth century US was an unprecedented thing! And BASED AS F%CK!

[@inzyniertv9305]

Wow Reddit but based nice

[@FKAS8410]

I am starting to think this channel may not be what I had hoped it to be.

[@joeschmo4646]

And what were you hoping it was?

[@cswizzle1890]

​@@joeschmo4646An actual history channel not a political one.

[@joeschmo4646]

@@cswizzle1890 yeah same.

[@Taskicore]

Yeah this channel is an alt-right propaganda outlet. Best to steer clear.

[@ardvarkvv2718]

@@cswizzle1890 bro thinks history is apolitical 💀

[@fighterofthenightman1057]

I don’t think you can just lazily equate abolitionism with left wing attitudes. That just equates liberalism with any and all positive developments. Many abolitionists were among the most theologically and culturally conservative people in the North who viewed abolition as enacting God’s will and purifying America’s broken morality. They weren’t liberals.

[@washingtonradio]

You missed the point, John Brown was a murderous scum bag who didn't care who died because of his actions. He espoused a cause as a cover for his murderous ways. If you listen to the rhetoric of the left you will hear echos of John Brown's rhetoric in it, murder the opposition. Both Brown and the left define the opposition not a person's actions or beliefs but by a person's background/'race.

[@thomaswatson1739]

Many abolitionists supported feminism, centralization, socialism and even as far as free love. The more radical they were more those apply. It was a very leftist attitude merely aped by Modern conservatives because there gutless and want to kiss up to blacks

[@FarberBob678]

Yeah, many of these abolitionist were ultra-conservative, puritanical Calvinists.

[@crusader2112]

Perhaps they themselves weren't modern left-wingers, but the puritanical mindset was very much passed down to the modern left.

[@Burgermeister1836]

What's interesting is that the puritan mindset outlasted the religion itself - the "city on a hill" became one of liberalism rather than calvinism. It was easily applicable to any utopian ideology.

[@Mrshark609]

To be honest, the Difference between A Hero and a Terrorist is If you Support The terrorists Reasons for Doing Terrorism

[@Mfhollander2]

Terrorism is the use of violence targeted at civilians for political aims. Heros don’t do that.

[@keyes858]

@@Mfhollander2 John Brown didn't target civilians.

[@ronniehopper2726]

​@@keyes858 He quite literally did target civilians children One of his bastard kids literally killed an infan

[@martyscurllisinnocent4324]

​@@keyes858 ummmm....... who's gonna tell him?

[@keyes858]

@@martyscurllisinnocent4324 Tell me how he killed pro-slavery militia in Kansas?

[@FKAS8410]

I think this is a questionable video. The man sought to change the status quo regarding the most ubiquotous institutional evil of all time living in our country. It was ingrained into every cultural and economical element of the time. Regardless of his personal flaws or ambitions, he was willing to risk everything in order to ensure that no man woman or child should live with a chain around their necks. When faced with such a noble task I am willing to overlook nearly all of his other flaws.

[@justchilling704]

Exactly, what’s funny is that this guy released a community tab joking about the what if ideologue being deranged just to make a crap video like this 💀

[@Gigachadsik]

Still exists, even more so now than then, and your weak liberal care about everyone mindset is being BRED OUT. You are being replaced by more barbaric peoples from the islamic/hindu world.

[@Gigachadsik]

Zion Dion is owned by Netanyahoo.

[@TTGregory2828]

To be honest, as a long viewer of your channel and a John Brown “enthusiast” having done my recent final on him, I honestly have to respectfully disagree with most of this video. Particularly your take on the Potawatomi Massacre. Without taking up to much space here I’d love to debate you on Brown and his life. Without being disrespectful I could honestly not disagree more with this video.

[@justchilling704]

Thank you for this comment, I’m very disappointed by this video and the poor reasoning behind the I argue terrible and or crap takes in it.

[@MeeesterBond17]

I'm not too familiar with US history, but I read somewhere that the the "John Brown was mad and evil" books and articles were all written a long time after his death, is that correct/wrong/not entirely true in your opinion?

[@Americanpride555]

Genuine question. Is killing innocents who have nothing to do with slavery justifiable?

[@justchilling704]

@@Americanpride555 No one said kill innocents who have nothing to do with slavery, this is a red herring.

[@scorpionjaxxer339]

@@Americanpride555red herring, Bot

[@faytwind3913]

His next video should be why WW2 and the Civil War shouldn't had happened because some civilians died.

[@tomassmith1519]

You missed the point completly

[@faytwind3913]

@@tomassmith1519 No I didn't

[@tomassmith1519]

@@faytwind3913 yep

[@wmarshal2802]

@@tomassmith1519 what was the point, that enslaving your children wasn’t a crime worthy of death?

[@fbniko892]

They shouldn’t, both could’ve been avoided and should’ve been.

[@PaintTheWorld911]

In this household John Brown is a hero

[@mattg6574]

💯

[@user-no1nj9ji1d]

What an awful evil household it is then

[@mst2082]

Based

[@legodarthvader8477]

@@user-no1nj9ji1d cry your rebel tears traitor America may be in a sorry state but the one thing it did right was having no mercy towards the Confederates

[@glizygxbler3131]

@@user-no1nj9ji1dwould you say the same thing against anti nazi partisans because they are doing "terrorism"

[@Based_Proletariat]

John Brown was a based freedom fighter. R.I.P. to a legend.

[@Jake_Frac]

You are painting the beliefs of the "left" / "liberals" on this issue with the largest of paint rollers my guy.

[@Sebman1113]

Plus, John brown isn’t only a hero of the left (though they would hate him on everything else) but Brown is also a hero of Christians in his piety and living a life of faith and devotion.

[@Taskicore]

Hmm I wonder why Monsieur Z keeps stealthily defending slavery in these videos. Is he one of those "no action except peaceful protest is acceptable" kind of people?

[@isolatefn3914]

@@kaminsod4077 Haha have you even watched his videos? You're strawmanning so hard. Nobody is saying a critique of abolitionism is "automatically slavery apologetics". Matter of fact, you are the only one saying that.

[@Taskicore]

@@kaminsod4077 There's plenty to critique about John Brown without making shit up lol

[@brodbreiss]

It sounds like he thinks the civil war as a whole was a grand tragedy and that if the radicals in the south and north didn’t get out of hand then maybe it could have been avoided and slavery stamped out gradually. Now that may not be the idealistic or even pragmatic thing to believe but I see his point in theory

[@keyes858]

@@brodbreissSlavery was nowhere close to being stamped out gradually.

[@Frazier16]

This guy seems kinda weird. He also defended Wilson.​@@kaminsod4077

[@benjamingrist6539]

John Brown’s reputation as a liberal hero took time to develop. At the time of his death, the people in the free North overwhelmingly viewed Brown as a traitor, with anti-Brown protests in New England dwarfing the pro-Brown protests.

[@keyes858]

That’s not true at all. John Brown was widely considered a hero in the North at the time of his execution. Many towns held moments of silence. Anti-Brown demonstrations were much more rare.

[@gamera5160]

John Brown's Body (1861) John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave, John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave, John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave, But his soul goes marching on. CHORUS: Glory, glory, hallelujah, Glory, glory, hallelujah, Glory, glory, hallelujah, His soul goes marching on. He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord, He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord, He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord, His soul goes marching on.--CHORUS John Brown's knapsack is strapped upon his back, John Brown's knapsack is strapped upon his back, John Brown's knapsack is strapped upon his back, His soul goes marching on.--CHORUS John Brown died that the slaves might be free, John Brown died that the slaves might be free, John Brown died that the slaves might be free, His soul goes marching on.--CHORUS The stars above in Heaven now are looking kindly down, The stars above in Heaven now are looking kindly down, The stars above in Heaven now are looking kindly down, His soul goes marching on.--CHORUS

[@benjamingrist6539]

@@keyes858 the radical abolitionist weren’t liked at the time. Even in Boston, the hotbed of anti-slavery activity, the more well-known abolitionists were routinely accosted in the streets and even beaten up. The channel “Antebellum Etc.” does a good job using primary and scholarly secondary sources to show how the abolitionist were extremely controversial in the prewar years. (Before the name of the channel throws anyone off, he also uses primary and scholarly secondary sources to showcase the horrors and hardship of slavery.)

[@keyes858]

@@benjamingrist6539 John Brown was a special case; that’s why his raid was considered a turning point. That’s when people’s opinions of abolitionism changed.

[@chevyjay399]

thats not true. John browns body was a popular civil war song sang by the union troops.

[@quinlanbrown989]

John brown saw black slaves suffering and decided to do something about it. He chose to die for a cause he believed in than stand idly by and let more black slaves die. He may not have been a dont but he is worthy of respect for being a true American who believed in freedom and justice for all. Happy birthday to a John Brown!

[@aeida6140]

He also killed many said blacks. He was not a hero he was a retard much like you are.

[@vanivanov9571]

Many "true Americans" fill the lake of fire. And such worship does them no good.

[@vanivanov9571]

Happy BDay in Hell.

[@maxwellli7057]

This video isnt attracting the usual crowd.

[@AfungusoftheLungusAmongus]

nope:)

[@MeeesterBond17]

Good, echo chambers are bad for everyone. 😊

[@Gigachadsik]

YWNBAW

[@AfungusoftheLungusAmongus]

@@Gigachadsik Are you talking to me, or?

[@the_cat_squeaky4554]

@@Gigachadsik you will never be a real man

[@ebrimajallow9631]

I just came here to Say " His soul goes marching on"

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

Yeah but not to a very nice place

[@Wiz4243]

@@TheLonesomePagan.the people he killed are somewhere far worse

[@Galow311]

@ebrimajallow9631 to hell

[@fatmanbatman9374]

@@TheLonesomePagan. Purgatory most likely

[@thechromeassasin9517]

I miss when Mr.Z videos wasn't a red pill playground.

[@riderofthewhitehorse8879]

Cry.

[@freeguylover]

@@riderofthewhitehorse8879 you smell take a shower

[@HighWireDiver]

​@@freeguyloverFight me, pussy.

[@moderndespair9922]

@@riderofthewhitehorse8879 aww is the mayonnaise man triggered?

[@baileyfellers5465]

This video is misinformed at best and maliciously misleading at worst. Referring to John Brown’s ideas and plans as genocidal is honestly wild. Also he never once thought of himself as a pacifist and I have never heard someone claim such a thing. He was very open about his militancy with those whom he trusted closely

[@mathieuleader8601]

John Brown looks like Kramer from Seinfeld

[@daustin8888]

"Ironic" -The Senate

[@fatmanbatman9374]

Jerry they are holding slaves, its against God's law

[@rustym.shackelford5546]

"Jerry, you don't understand, we have to emulate Nat Turner's Rebellion!!!" - John "Kramer" Brown

[@ExtremelyTriggered-tl4nv]

The idea that supporting a slave revolt is the same as supporting a genocide is insane. Yes, usually there is a lot of racial animus during revolts led under a race based slave system, and sure this is bad. But in the long term, a successful slave revolt prevents generations of misery and violence, primarily harming only those who did violence themselves in the form of owning their fellow man.

[@toxicgamer6038]

I doubt that a slave revolt would even target everyone who was since there was discrimination against whites as well, the Irish being one group, even being called white n-words.

[@davidstanford9933]

Well seeing how Browns actions lead to a war that killed over 50,000 civilians, and brought about the Reconstruction governments who’s disastrous policies is a leading cause as to the economic problems facing the south to this day…then I say by your logic Brown is pretty contemptible as far as generational suffering goes

[@ExtremelyTriggered-tl4nv]

@@davidstanford9933 I get your general point but I just don’t think it’s in line with the historical evidence. For one, the effect John Brown had in triggering the civil war is greatly exaggerated. It would have happened without him probably on the same dates, he’s merely an ideological martyr for the North who was one of the many minor causes that led to the war. For two, your claim that the reconstruction government’s policy was “disastrous” is unironically bordering on racism, the reconstruction government was the one that ended the enslavement of million of Americans and prevented those Americans from being trapped into a system of pseudo-slavery. Once reconstruction ended Jim Crow came into place and led to the deaths and subjugation of black people in this country for another hundred years. For three, the idea that reconstruction government’s economic policy has any substantial effect on the modern day economy is pretty silly, they really did not do very much to harm the Southern economy other than ending slavery. Since then, the Southern economy has gotten better at certain times and gotten worse, it’s not like it’s just flatlined since reconstruction. Regardless, before slavery ended, the South was always economically backwards, and both black people and poor whites languished in poverty. Finally I feel like even if there was any evidence of substantial financial damage during that period, it would be much more realistically attributable to the fact that the South was just the center of the largest war in our nation’s history. That usually isn’t great for the economy.

[@davidstanford9933]

@@ExtremelyTriggered-tl4nv For one. Yes I agree that Joh Browns role in starting the war and eventually freeing the slaves is exaggerated. As his fans do need to find a way to make his life filled with nothing but terrorism and failure, actually mean anything. Nonetheless, if they are going to give him credit for something so significant, then all the consequences of it would have to be his doing as well by their own logic. For two. I never once claimed that Reconstruction was bad because it freed the slaves or tried to enforce civil rights. I don’t think I need to elaborate anymore on a point I never made As for the southern economy before and after the war, while it’s true southern planters made one of the richest demographics, they didn’t have all the wealth in the south, and it was far from being economically backwards since 7 of the ten states with the bigger per capita of wealth (which accounts for the individual wealth of every member of a population) joined the confederacy. But the devastation of the war and the reconstruction policies such as the discriminatory federal budget, the protective tariffs on cotton, and the panic of 1873 caused by the Union Pacific railroad lead to lasting and disproportionate impoverishment in the south up to the 50s. This also leaves out the fact that racist voter discrimination and segregation were not unique to the South at the time. At the end of the War only five New England states with tiny black populations permitted blacks to vote. Connecticut, Minnesota, and Wisconsin rejected black suffrage in 1865. Kansas did so in 1867 as did Michigan and Missouri in 1868 and New York declined to repeal property requirements for black voters in 1869. The real reason as to why the radical republicans pushed for voting rights in the south was to create a strong voting base for the still young party. Even William T Sherman himself said as much: “I have never heard a negro ask for . . . [voting rights] . . . and I think it would be his ruin . . . I believe the whole idea of giving votes to the negroes is to create just that many votes to be used by others for political uses . . .”

[@yunuss58]

John Brown did make one mistake Die And even then he used his last moments to give his message the necessary publicity.

[@keyes858]

“Had I so interfered in behalf of the rich, the powerful, the intelligent, the so-called great, or in behalf of any of their friends, either father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or children, or any of that class, and suffered and sacrificed what I have in this interference, it would have been all right; and every man in this court would have deemed it an act worthy of reward rather than punishment.”

[@yunuss58]

@@keyes858 i totally forgot about that quote. So good

[@ErenKruger-qx3dt]

Bro acting as if the people Brown killed in the massacre weren’t slave catchers that murdered abolitionists

[@Taskicore]

True lol

[@Galow311]

@ErenKruger-qx3dt Lol slave catching was perfectly legal, what's your source on them "murdering" abolitionists?

[@Taskicore]

@@Galow311 holy fucking shit you would have volunteered to work the gas chambers at Auschwitz

[@ManBung]

Not all of them were, he shot dead grocers, laborers, executed young innocent children and women. You should read Mahala Doyle's letter to him, he was a freak and terrorist, whose thirst for bloodshed came second after his beliefs.

[@wmarshal2802]

@@Galow311 owning a human being and selling your sons and daughters were legal as well, you think they don’t deserve to die for that?

[@KamauMshale]

Heroes for one group are often villians of another. john brown was a hero because he fought to free black people and end the idea of slavery. Immediate abolition was the right thing just like ending genocide in Sudan and Palestine. The reality is some things that are right will be ignored as long as they dont make the right people money or power and they will make sure the status quo never changes. It takes the likes of John Brown, Nat Turner, Harriet Tubman and others who fight that system despite being outlaws. When freedom and justice are against the law, the free and just will be outlaws.

[@Jupiter__001_]

The problem is that he killed innocent civilians who had nothing to do with slavery just because they were white Southerners, and his end-goal was the death of all whites in the South (the Haitian slave revolt rap ed and killed all the French in Haiti). I would argue that he actually set Abolition back by a long way, and contributed to the tensions that would lead to the Civil War rather than a peaceful Abolition.

[@FKAS8410]

​@@Jupiter__001_maybe there is something to be said for violent revolt against a population who willingly enslave millions of individuals? In the end it was resorted through violence anyways.

[@REMORYGERROSEOAREDRAGGAR-ud8fz]

John Brown and Nat Turner are burning in hell.

[@IamMeHere2See]

​​@@Jupiter__001_ This is the very essence of 2 wrongs don't make a right. I agree that John Brown is not a hero, that he did a lot of wrong things, but that doesn't mean what he fought against didn't deserve to die. The institution of slavery at this time was the worst it had ever been, and it wasn't going to go away quietly. [Edit: for letting my fingers get ahead of my words.]

[@Jupiter__001_]

@@IamMeHere2See I agree. Slavery is too profitable for it to simply become obsolete economically (and even if plantation slavery went away, house slavery would have remained). But I don't agree with John Brown's actions at all. I think that a peaceful resolution to the problem could have been achieved. (Like how Wilberforce pushed for years in the House of Commons for the abolition of slavery, and despite heavy opposition from the slavery lobby, and the anti-reform zeitgeist in the face of the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars, he eventually succeeded because his cause was just). I think that if some effort went into industrialising the South so that all the wealth and power were not concentrated in the hands of plantation owners, slavery could have been abolished eventually and with great struggle.

[@pollere4926]

John Brown was and still is an incredibly complex figure. On the one hand, he wanted to end an oppressive institution what was indeed an affront against God, a living hell for the slaves, and a hindrance on the development of the South as a whole. On the other, the acts he committed to advance his cause of ending slavery were brutal. Violence may sometimes be necessary to achieve a goal but violence should be directed at the right people and not at civilians with little to no stake in slavery. He should have solely been going after slaveholders, if anyone at all.

[@jokester3076]

So John Brown was the Magneto of abolitionists?

[@josephstalin839]

So Magneto was right?

[@asscheeks3212]

​@@josephstalin839no

[@adamnesico]

@@josephstalin839Maybe. I found the X-men arguments for oppose him in the comics i read foolish.

[@adrianshephard378]

​@@josephstalin839weird pfp Patton hated Communism

[@chasemorace4916]

Most accurate analogy possible.

[@pro-letarian3359]

Sorry gonna have to trust actual abolitionists over some yt nerd, W.E.B. Dubois sure didn't have these complaints but I'm sure he could have been set straight from your yt essay

[@GiantfuckingRetard]

Actual schizobabbel

[@jmwh9654]

"Extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice" - Barry Goldwater

[@faytwind3913]

Hundreds of years of torture, slavery, and murder, meh fine. Some civilians died trying to stop it, *I GOTTA MAKE A VIDEO FOR WHY IT'S BAD*

[@dapperbunch5029]

Ok so children are free game?

[@brodbreiss]

@@dapperbunch5029only if they’re white children with these people

[@faytwind3913]

@@dapperbunch5029 It sucks, but if it means ending hundreds of years of murder, yes

[@dapperbunch5029]

@@faytwind3913 Indeed, just how Germany in WW2 was justified. Or how the Holodmor was justified. Or how about we do thinks slower, yes, but more diplomatic and you know, we don’t involve children.

[@dapperbunch5029]

@@faytwind3913 So wait you’re angry at Monsieur for calling out a, while justified terrorist, a terrorist. It seems to me you’re just kinda psychopathic.

[@ohioanempire]

John Brown's body lies a-mouldering in the grave but his soul goes marching on

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

Go's marching on to Hell

[@ohioanempire]

@@TheLonesomePagan. cry your rebel tears. Maybe you can use them to put out Sherman's fire

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

@@ohioanempire Sherman's fire has been out for a long time brother maybe you could consider making literally any City north of the Mason-Dixon line habitable and not a drug-infested crime riddled slum.

[@HowardArnold-be9ly]

Amen

[@ohioanempire]

@@TheLonesomePagan. maybe you can focus on getting rid of your obesity and poverty

[@sethmoffitt7813]

Slavery of any kind is incompatible with a free society. John Brown was ahead of his time. Anyone who sees John Brown as 'just plain evil' has lost the plot.

[@GrinchLite]

Abraham Lincoln:👍 John Brown:👎

[@keyes858]

@@GrinchLite That's very reductive. Lincoln was perfectly willing to let slavery continue in order to preserve the Union.

[@fastfacts727]

Mr Z never had the plot to begin with

[@GrinchLite]

@@keyes858 That’s like comparing MLK to malcom X. MLK obviously was the more impactful player in the civil rights movement because he wasn’t a radical. Like Malcom X, John Brown only hurt the movement which he represented (abolitionist movement) where calmer heads like Lincoln and MLK prevailed. Figures like X and Brown only hurt their respective movements, and John Brown actually made the abolitionist movement a fringe part of society up to the civil war.

[@keyes858]

@@GrinchLite “Calmer heads prevailed”?? They had a war…

[@pickle4422]

Bro, stop trying to be a conservative contrarian. You’re making real conservatives look like doofuses.

[@knows-pickler]

This whole thing ends up feeling very "defending slavery to own the libs"

[@platypusrecords3788]

Agreed

[@Gigachadsik]

"Real conservatives" send their children to die for isreal.

[@pedrosantos6183]

I dont think he is an actual conservative, he is Just a reactionary

[@justaghostinthesea]

There's so many people I want to say this too

[@BHuang92]

He knew the violence would eventually come. He didnt know how it would turn out.

[@thomaswatson1739]

Violence didn’t have to comes that was the work of abolitionists Yankees

[@amandag.6186]

​@@thomaswatson1739and who started that violence?

[@Frankthetank-et7wo]

​@@amandag.6186yankees when they illegaly occupied a fort that was, per an agreement between two nations, supposed to be turned over to the other nation.

[@winstonchurchill5892]

@@Frankthetank-et7wo It was fucking not, no one agreed to it and union forces were stationed there for over 6 years.

[@landaclay9331]

​@Frankthetank-et7wo no the south started the war in fact they were preparing for months before attacking fort Sumpter

[@Abdus_VGC]

John Brown family lived very close to the Grant family in Ohio, the dad of Ulysses Grant knew John Brown's dad

[@Bulbs_Productions]

Lmao makes sense

[@keyes858]

@@Bulbs_Productionswhy does that make sense

[@HowardArnold-be9ly]

The music to the Battle Hymn of the Republic was , before the song was written, called John Browns Body Lies A’mouldering in the Grave.

[@winstonchurchill5892]

That in no way implies that john brown was viewed in bad light in the song.

[@naruck15]

his soul is marching on

[@KC-Mitch]

@@winstonchurchill5892 if anything, you could argue the song was "washed" to be more politically correct for the time. The chorus remained the same, but changing _soul_ to _truth_ to indicate more than likely "God's Truth" since God obviously doesn't have a soul. I thoroughly enjoy both versions, but it's important to note we've always "washed" content for our own agendas; not a recent phenomenon.

[@HowardArnold-be9ly]

I don’t think it was praising him.

[@HowardArnold-be9ly]

Marching straight to hell maybe.

[@michaelfuller244]

John Brown, the perfect example of how to be both right and wrong at the same time.

[@ardvarkvv2718]

just right*

[@caredneck7613]

@@ardvarkvv2718 so you think killing not involved in evil acts but just live in the area is justified?

[@jbone9900]

​@@caredneck7613 sometimes evil must be destroyed.

[@caredneck7613]

@@jbone9900 tell me how a person who never owned slaves is evil? Yeah, I agree in certain cases violence is absolutely necessary but killing people solely for living in an area is evil too.

[@yekkub9425]

​@@caredneck7613Apparently those who he killed were pro-slavery voters, and he spared those who didnt support pro slavery politics. So he only killed those who directly helped perpetuate slavery. Not sure of that's true though.

[@nilmoratonas3056]

Womp womp, John Brown fought and died for slavery to end, he believed in the Constituion and the Golden Rule and even if he was extreme he fought for the liberation of millions that were forced to live like cattle, he did more for the slaves with just 20 good men than most abolitionists did on a life time of cozy lifes in their big cities, John Brown is a hero, the man who rembebered that the Founding Fathers promised Freedom and Justice for All and that God made all men equal, anyone saying the contrary is a spineless worm, those who call him an extremist are blind to the suffering of millions at the time that justfied his actions against a system that sustained itself from slavery, I will repear John Brown is an American hero, he fought, died and killed for what was right, His Soul Marches On

[@agentofchaos3015]

savior complex

[@nilmoratonas3056]

@@agentofchaos3015 Better a savior complex and do something, than complain like a cuck and do nothing

[@Aman-oi3re]

@@agentofchaos3015When you’re putting your life in the line to save people, you can have a savior complex

[@nilmoratonas3056]

@@agentofchaos3015 He still did more for the slaves and upholding the Constitution and Christian beliefs that most preachers and politicians in the North

[@Galow311]

@nilmoratonas3056 "Upholding the constitution" He did the opposite of that you sped, how do you people lie so easily?

[@Taskicore]

The Haitian slaves shouldn't have killed their masters' children, but I am not going to condemn them for it. Multiple lifetimes of bondage and cruelty can turn a human into a resentful person, after all. Yes, children should never be targeted, but what is the more prolific evil here? Slavery wasn't a reaction to the savage murder of children.

[@jstevinik3261]

The issue is that the kids were taught to use arms and entitlement to own slaves in case of parent's death. Yes, kids were taught to fight to defend their "property". No human is willing to give up property without a fight. The Haitians regused to kill defecting Polish mercenaries, so they were not "gen9cidal".

[@vulpesinculta301]

Leftist justified targeting children. A tale as old as time itself

[@brodbreiss]

@@jstevinik3261the same could be said for almost any sectarian /tribal conflict

[@pablosoleramaeso4561]

​​@@jstevinik3261 No, collective punishment is wrong no matter what, given the circumstances it is understandable but not justifiable. Stop defending mass collective based murder.

[@jstevinik3261]

@@pablosoleramaeso4561 It is punishment for an activity (owning slaves where death rates were high and violently resisting the slave revolt) that is shared beyond one individual. "Collective punishment" makes sense in this case. If you are referring to slaver families, they were conditioned that they would inherit the "property" upon the patriach's death.

[@stellarisplayer7798]

According to this video's Logic the founding fathers were terrorists too 😂

[@shanegodman1251]

The founders didn’t rape and kill innocents. They waged war on the government.

[@emeraldspire3918]

What do expect from a eugenics defender?

[@keyes858]

@@shanegodman1251All those poor British soldiers stuck thousands of miles from their homes and families were “the government”?

[@SeanWinters]

Not really, the Boston tea party literally went out of their way to pay back the lock they broke. Terrorists don't do that.

[@zombieoverlord5173]

@@keyes858 They were armed soldiers bro. What do you mean innocent?

[@JosephPastori]

This whole video is nonsensical. I mean all you need is 30 seconds when he does the whole “LiBeRaL bAd” shpeil like there’s only two sides here. People who tend to think that simple-mindedly often struggle with nuanced opinions and complex historical topics that aren’t black and white good or evil.

[@johnno8586]

I'm sure you're very black and white on World War Two though. Also 2018 called, it wants its distorted word meme back.

[@wowmazin4399]

He's putting a counter narrative to the idea that John Brown was a good man that leftists speil. John Brown might have fought for a good cause but his methods were terrible.

[@keyes858]

@@wowmazin4399 What methods would you have used?

[@wowmazin4399]

@@keyes858 Nothing really. It would've ended itself. Slavery was economically unviable and was seeing itself out. The Civil War caused great destruction to South which didn't help the newly freed slaves. Race relations would also probably be better since Southerners wouldn't be so bitter against the blacks.

[@keyes858]

@@wowmazin4399 How was slavery seeing itself out if the enslaved population was at an all-time high when the Civil War broke out? Sounds like slavery was stronger than ever.

[@NickASchwab]

Johnny boy is proof Reddit is worse than Twitter

[@joseradio9202]

Reddit creates dangerous individuals, while Twitter creates dangerous Collectives

[@utopia4056]

Wayyyyy worse. Ive never had a meaningful conversation with someone i disagree with on reddit. Happens occasionally on X

[@donkeykong1501]

@@utopia4056 i get called the n word on twitter for being black lmao

[@Melatonin1111]

'Debunking' opposing views without citing specific opposing views is just arguing in your head with a made up opponent and deeming yourself the winner

[@aasifazimabadi786]

I am guessing that Mr. Z hates Malcolm X as well.

[@adamnesico]

As a violence apologist, why not?

[@Aman-oi3re]

Mr.Z is a dweeb with an idealized version of history. He’s bias to everything that doesn’t promote white interests

[@abrahamlincoln937]

Mr. Z is a conservative, so he probably opposes Malcolm X and thinks that Martin Luther King Jr. is overrated.

[@adamnesico]

@@abrahamlincoln937 Why? Martin was a good man. Mandela is overrated.

[@glxjchaos7775]

Mr. Z is a paleo conservative and believes all non-white Americans should live under a tyrannical Euro-American aristocracy.

[@ryujibackyeah4189]

Good Motivation bad goals he is an Anti villian

[@MonsieurDean]

I guess I can see that

[@dylanbuchanan6511]

Definition of an anti-villain. Dude’s like a real life Pain.

[@yanfrias946]

he was no anti villain he was a plain villain there is no other side of the story, only lies told to make this lunatic look better he was willing to genocide members of his own race for something humanity did since it´s first days

[@inzyniertv9305]

​@@MonsieurDean your newest bad take confederate looser

[@RoyalProtectorate]

Keep in mind this wasn't even isolated event among abolition, some of the more prominent and wealthy individuals in New England abolitionist movement had a group own as the "secret six" who openly fund John Browns operation in Kansas. Many of these same individuals after the civil war and slavery was abolish would later also turn to starting the first socialist societies in America.

[@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482]

Based

[@crusader2112]

@@tudoraragornofgreyscot8482 Socialism and modern capitalism are cringe. Embrace Distributism.

[@chrisriverata1917]

​@@crusader2112Distribution? More like distribute these balls into your mouth, LMAO. (I'm sorry that sentence was just asking for a ligma.)

[@mazza3571]

Good

[@georgestauber2636]

Abolitionists were the leftist anti fa types of their day. They never change. It's also noteworthy that most had never seen a black man.

[@jefferyhanderson7849]

Not the usual Mr.Z video I expected. And the first video of his to make me uncomfortable. I think I will sit this one out.

[@TTGregory2828]

Ik dude, it’s completely backwards. Politics asides Brown was in the right

[@Jupiter__001_]

@@TTGregory2828 Motivated by a mad messiah-complex to commit massacres with the end-goal of genocide. Truly, he was on The Right Side of History™.

[@TTGregory2828]

@@Jupiter__001_ you notice how he failed to sire a single historian or source for his claims. Brown saw the outcome of a slave rebellion as simply justifiable and I would too if I were him. 4 million souls….held to the worse conditions of human bondage known to man. Call it genocide if you want but I call it right

[@dillonblair6491]

​@@Jupiter__001_ By definition he wasn't planning a genocide. You can't genocide an ideological faction

[@Jupiter__001_]

@@dillonblair6491 He wanted to genocide all Southerners because he saw them all as implicit supporters of slavery. It reminds me of some British newspapers during WW2 carrying opinion pieces saying that all Germans should be totally exterminated because they were all implicitly Nazis according to them.

[@therebelliousone1992]

Black Americans absolutely love John Brown. He is one of their top heros.

[@Frankthetank-et7wo]

makes sense, they love venerating violent individuals like Saint George of the Fent.

[@squid12825]

Well the modern black “culture” is basically just being anti white that’s why they worship the breathless man of Minneapolis

[@Aaron_Guest]

Because he is a hero.

[@Aaron_Guest]

​@@squid12825 How can you be so wrong but seem so confident?

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

Most black Americans don't even know anything about him

[@PiniMoo]

Brown was so overwhelmed with the belief that every man was made in the image of God that he acted as if his enemies weren't created in the image of God also. So unfortunate.

[@chevyjay399]

his enemies were enslaving god's creatures

[@PiniMoo]

@chevyjay399 Yes but the way he went about trying to stop that injustice was injust itself

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

​@@chevyjay399none of the people he or his militia killed owned slaves

[@ErenKruger-qx3dt]

As God said do not spare the rod. Slavery was never gonna go away peacefully and the only way the South would give up there slaves was threw bloodshed. Like why would they fire the 1st shot if they thought they would be able to keep there slaves

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

@@ErenKruger-qx3dt this argument falls apart when you look at the fact that John Brown didn't go attacking any slave ships or storm any plantation he literally just targeted civilians who didn't own slaves. I think your argument at least has some merit in the greater scheme of the civil war but it just doesn't apply to John Brown.

[@georgegreen711]

I will say that some of the Bleeding Kansas stuff John Brown was involved in was in retaliation pro-slavery violence in Lawrence Kansas, but there should have been a more thorough accounting of innocents and brigands in the counterattack.

[@EHed-kv2wb]

God bless you John Brown. A true Christian who fought for freedom for his brothers and sisters.

[@HunterGalvius]

That “his final solution” line isn’t too far off.

[@mazza3571]

Pre far off

[@HunterGalvius]

@@mazza3571 John Brown calling his plan to commit genocide a “final solution” is ironic and the fact you continue to defend it as non-genocidal when it clearly is is absurd. Just admit that it’s genocide and say that [insert group of people you don’t like here] deserve it, and move on. Might I ask what even makes it wrong that he wanted to commit genocide given you have already stated in other comments that people from the south were not innocent? What is wrong with committing what you yourself have described as a just act?

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

@@HunterGalvius don't bother trying to use logic with this individual it's clear that he just hates white people

[@dillonblair6491]

​@@HunterGalvius Because you can't genocide an ideological faction.... he wasn't killing white southern abolitionists...

[@rookcapcoldblood2618]

Aha, the like on this comment proves that the line was intentionally written to compare John Brown to Mustache Mensch. That's all I needed to hear.

[@enigma5648]

So that's where Bioshock got the idea for Comstock.

[@el_bizcocho6916]

The Boston tea party was also a terrorist attack

[@Spartan265]

John Brown is a badass and hero. I don't care what anyone says. He was fighting for his fellow man to be free. And thats a noble cause. RIP Mr. Brown.

[@ardvarkvv2718]

JOHN BROWNS BODY LIES A MOULDERIN IN THE GRAVE!

[@dapperbunch5029]

Don’t forget the Werewolf squads!

[@excaliberdg1178]

Not all solutions should require violence. Two negatives don't make a position

[@sabletyger2444]

​@@excaliberdg1178 dawg we had to fight a civil war over this, it had to be violent or it would never happen

[@ej28]

@@excaliberdg1178 that view will never do anything to better society

[@____________838]

John Moses Browning, however…

[@TheodorictheGoth-cc2jj]

I hate slavery as much as the next guy but holy shit. That one quote from that Lady got to me. It's really easy today for people to just imagine.”Good guys vs bad guys” But life is not a Hollywood movie no matter what modern “academics” think.

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

Well said. Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote of John Brown. "Never before was a criminal more justly hanged." And Hawthorne was an abolitionist himself... he just wasn't a terrorist.

[@mazza3571]

@@snakey934Snakeybakey if everyone was like Nathanial Hawthorne my people would still be in chains.

[@adamnesico]

@@mazza3571Slavery was abolished for not fit industrialism not for ethics. Don’t worry, new chains are in the mind and you never got rid of them.

[@adamnesico]

@@wmarshal2802 life under capitalism was dominating and imposing its values. Was question of time they would abolish slavery. In the english empire at least.

[@wmarshal2802]

@@adamnesico a slave literally could be murdered or used as skin sock, it is better to live in liberal capitalism then that

[@user-ue9jq6fp9b]

The only thing John Brown did wrong was stop

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

He didn't stop he was stopped, big difference.

[@keyes858]

@@TheLonesomePagan. He could have easily escaped into the hills. He fully intended on getting caught in order to get his message in front of the American people.

[@gp2917]

I like your videos a lot more when you just report history and not impress your own political beliefs onto it

[@King_Steffon_II]

Abolitionist were NOT modern librals 🤣😭 Stop painting the past in today's image Smdh

[@madisonhasson8981]

Talk about literal white savior complex.

[@TTGregory2828]

Opposite actually, Brown was actually one of the few Abolitionist who didn’t presume to speak for African-Americans and what was “Best” for them. This was noted during Redpaths visit to his North Elba property in the 1840s.

[@georgestauber2636]

It's also noteworthy that the vast number of abolitionists had never seen a black man nor would have ever permitted them to live near them.

[@chevyjay399]

@@georgestauber2636 John went to church with back people and gave them his seat near the front

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

Except rather than presuming to save black people, he intended to empower them as the animals the Southerners feared they'd be if unshackled.

[@inzyniertv9305]

Bad take

[@andrewrogers3067]

This whole video I’m thinking “man this dude is based” thank you for making me like him more.

[@crusader2112]

He killed children. I don't care how righteous your cause is. You kill children you're tainted.

[@Aaron_Guest]

​@@crusader2112 Every cause that turned violent has.

[@crusader2112]

@@Aaron_Guest I know and I don't support movements that harms children.

[@donkeykong1501]

@@crusader2112 every single movement/revolution has harmed children lol

[@wmarshal2802]

@@crusader2112 what children

[@tylerhampton1]

You should do a video on why General Lee should be remembered. He should be remembered as a warning. I believe the war would have been at least a little shorter if he had taken command of the U.S. Army in 61’ and that would have saved more lives. His choosing state over country put a lot of blood on his hands. Plus having a southern commander of the northern armies would have made defeat easier to swallow for the south.

[@nekogaming5300]

Mate you are forgetting something important in that, the north fully intended to brutalize to south beyond repair for centuries and they absolutely wanted to make that defeat incredibly hard to swallow so the south would learn it’s place and never rebel again. It’s easy to say playing nice or respecting traditions could have helped but realistically the south would have rebelled again if they weren’t crippled and broken so viciously and whether or not a southern man lead the union forces or not, they were NEVER given the option to take anything but defeat fter 4 years of a country shattering war and in the long term, the north was correct in suppressing the confederates as much as they did

[@keittkatranch5167]

The Emancipation Proclamation was basically Lincoln offering the South a deal. If the CSA were to lay down their arms and come back into the Union by the end of 1862 it would go back to the way it was before they seceded, just as if the war never happened. They refused, due mainly to the fact that they had been fighting for their independence for over a year by this point and the Grand Army of the Potomac was no closer to Richmond then than when the war started.

[@doronaznible7298]

@@nekogaming5300 the south got off easy honestly.

[@karlperra586]

@@nekogaming5300On the contrary, brutalization wasn't the point until Grant was in charge. A large part of the reason the war lasted for several years was that the North initially was very hesitant to press (particularly in the east) and believed the South could be blockaded into submission at first.

[@nekogaming5300]

@@karlperra586 brutalization was 100% the point from day one till the day the war ended, thats what reconquering one’s country requires after a civil war. Idk what you seem to think but there was a very good reason the union dismantled southern culture, ended slavery as a whole and completeky and utterly crippled the entirety of the south. The confederacy wasn’t just some revolt, it was a rebellion with land half the size of western europe and there was no way the union could have retaken it without brutality. The south was vicious, treated union prisoners VERY poorly and disregarded any and all opportunities to try and mitigate casualties. They acted like barbarians throughout that war so when the union retook the south, they treated those same barbarians as they acted and ensured they couldn’t do it again…ever

[@Hoagsgalaxynetwork]

Brown suffers from present’s view of the past. His ideals of abolishing slavery were right and so people today look at that good ideal first and foremost. They didn’t have first hand experience with how he went about abolishing slavery and thus no stake in his actions. Looking at people during Brown’s time show even the most adamant abolitionist for his time highly disagreed and condemned Brown’s actions. The more we move away from historical events/characters the easier it is for most people to forgive actions and praise ideals.

[@Vogtandom]

Slavery is disgusting. This whole comment section is just southerners who are trying everything to save face for there 4 year old long country. This is reach, getting rid of slavery is bad all of a sudden now

[@FCReggae]

Also , the whipping he saw his best friend get as a boy, that was the moment of if I recall correctly.

[@mr.puddles5246]

You are only right if you win.

[@mazza3571]

lol no

[@duquedealbadetormes6117]

That's the story of mankind.

[@Dengakuman371]

That’s correct. There is no truth but power.

[@quinlanbrown989]

So the union was right and the rebs were wrong

[@Yourlocalwordrobe]

War does not determine whos right only whos left -Bertrand Russell

[@maymay-ci1oi]

His next video will probably be about how it was bad for that the French resistance killed a bunch of nazis

[@zombieoverlord5173]

"B-But they killed people! And it was illegal!"

[@soup100]

John Brown was radical for the right reasons. And so was Nat Turner.

[@paeshooter7132]

Considering his dark magic rank in the Fire Emblem rom hack Code of the Burger King, yeah I can see that.

[@squid12825]

Nice video. The redditors and tigerstar fanboys aren’t going to like this one lol

[@MonsieurDean]

Probably not

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote of John Brown. "Never before was a criminal more justly hanged." And Hawthorne was an abolitionist himself... he just wasn't a terrorist.

[@pimp22fly]

The guy was evil, but genuine question, how evil do you think slavery was? Was loyalty to the US more important than stopping such evil? The problem is when you commit a violent atrocity like slavery against millions of people, pretty much anyone involved in it loses the moral high ground. It also makes it easy for people to justify any action that would stop such a system. The reason leftists and academics don't care about John Brown's victims and lowkey agree with him, is the same reason most people don't care about the nukes dropped on Japan, or the bombing of Dresden and are glad the US won WW2.

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

@@pimp22fly In hindsight or in the context of the time? Because slavery was ubiquitous, and countries typically did not end chattle slavery until they could replace it with another form of cheap labor. I believe that slavery is absolutely evil, ESPECIALLY the sexual slavery that is rampant today. But had I grown up in the 1800s, I probably wouldn't have seen anything wrong with it, because it would have been normal at the time. Something that people today often overlook is that most abolitionist at the time were not abolitionist out of concern for the well being of the slaves. Most of the time, they either wanted to limit the political power of the slave states, or just didn't want blacks in their area. Those who opposed slavery for moral grounds were almost always religiously motivated.

[@ErenKruger-qx3dt]

@@snakey934Snakeybakey It depends on where you were born. Slavery was never universally accepted

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

@@ErenKruger-qx3dt thats the thing though... It literally was, and the exception does not change the rule. The very first written record we have in history containing the names of people, what's a transaction where a man bought slaves, and his name and the names of the slaves he bought are the oldest records of human names.thatbwe have.

[@ErenKruger-qx3dt]

@@snakey934Snakeybakey When I say Universally accepted I mean everyone was cool with it. This was never the case since we have whole cultures that never practiced slavery example would be the Tainos.

[@bb_blue_boy]

I have not seen this video but I have formed my opinion. ‘’John brown is based’’ Prove me wrong.

[@joeysandoval9823]

Real

[@tommyfishhouse8050]

I take it this is a response to Extra Credits/Extra Historys video on John Brown?

[@robertobeltran7545]

Oof, Who’s gonna tell him about abortion?

[@josephstalin839]

Dude's already rolling in his grave at FTL speeds.

[@achaeanmapping4408]

What about abortions?

[@inzyniertv9305]

​@@achaeanmapping4408 created to reduce black population by a literal nazi, works as intended

[@Jakov-or7fp]

​@@achaeanmapping4408John Brown would Most defninetly hate abortion

[@achaeanmapping4408]

@@Jakov-or7fp yes, and?

[@dmryan8355]

Wow - he was a real-life Captain Terrill. (THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES was one of the few movies to feature a self-righteous fanatic as the villain.)

[@IvanMrsicStudio]

He was the O.G. jayhawker.

[@PatrickHunter-hz2og]

White guilt has always been stupid

[@theguybehindyou4762]

Especially when you consider whites are the only ones who made a serious attempt at racial coexistence.

[@killgoretrout877]

man never even had to live next to a black person

[@jbone9900]

The confederacy is even more stupid.

[@joeschmo4646]

Bros saying fighting against slavery is white guilt

[@malluk3065]

@@joeschmo4646yeah these guys are unreal.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

You always make My day! Thanks! Suggestion: What if england remained catholic (Henry Duke of cornwall, son of Henry VIII and catherine of Aragon lives)

[@valmid5069]

*"Mr. Brown done promised us freedom, but...if this is freedom, I don't want no part of it"* -Santa Fe Trail 1940 movie (starring Errol Flynn and Olivia de Havilland)

[@keyes858]

“We are but darkened groping souls, that know not light often because of its very blinding radiance. Only in time is truth revealed. To-day at last we know: John Brown was right.” -W. E. B. Du Bois, 1909

[@thecjwolfpack]

Face the judgement of the Lord, slaver

[@carlosapalermo577]

He was trying to free slaves, how is that evil?

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

He didn't free a single slave and made targeted attacks on civilians who never even owned slave just because they were white and lived in the south.

[@dardanmaliqi4754]

4.30 minutes

[@emmanuellawyer8562]

Did you not watch the video?

[@wmarshal2802]

@@dardanmaliqi4754 those were adults. Who were slavery supporters. You would not know that by how Z is portraying them

[@ManBung]

​@@wmarshal2802 Read War to the Knife by Thomas Goodrich, you clearly don't know what you are talking about

[@randomguy6152]

John Brown was an extreme anti-slavery activist/terrorist but to my people he was a hero

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

Good to know your people view a lunatic terrorist who killed my people as a hero

[@progressivepogona8855]

@@TheLonesomePagan. Your people? As a Southerner, I don't see the slave owners as my people. Really weird to identify with slave owners who fought to defend slavery.

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

@@progressivepogona8855 none of the people he killed owned slaves.

[@randomguy6152]

@@TheLonesomePagan. you say none, but it wasn't none, he killed many slaveowners and many non slave owners. He was a terrorist and I will not claim him to be some super just figure. However he fought to end slavery whilst the south fought to keep slavery and if the side that opposed him won I would either not be here today or I'd be working the fields so he will forever be a hero to African Americans

[@progressivepogona8855]

@@TheLonesomePagan. He fought against slavery and, as someone else mentioned, he did kill slave owners and those who fought in defense of slavery. No one should identify with those kinds of people.

[@AlternateHistoryPresidium]

What If Jon Browne Was Made of Cheese Balles ?

[@sabletyger2444]

I dig your cheese ball vibe bro

[@evenlord7825]

As a Michigander (yankee) I think that violent activism and terrorism is unjustifiable. I never liked the John Brown story I was taught in schools because it was just another major event that led to the civil war

[@FarberBob678]

I’m a Michigander who feels the same way

[@skeletonnoise6178]

They just brushed over him I mean Caccius Clay was just a better version of John Brown

[@tomfox9083]

If we did things your way slavery would have been around for another 50 years

[@Burgermeister1836]

​@@tomfox9083Abolished peacefully, and without the scars that impact politics and culture to this day? Worth every year.

[@Frankthetank-et7wo]

​@@tomfox9083that would have been 50 years to formulate a proper plan to send them all home.

[@MatthewChenault]

It’s also worth noting that Robert E. Lee was not a dogmatic supporter of the institution of slavery. In fact, he personally confessed to wanting to see it come to an end. His main issue was with the radicals of the abolitionist movement - such as John Brown - who wanted to end slavery with violence rather than letting the south end it of its own accord. If anything, John Brown’s actions did the opposite of what they were supposed to do; it made the south less willing to bring an end to the institution rather than more willing.

[@josephstalin839]

Well, it doesn't matter if he was a dogmatic supporter or not. He made his informed decision. He decided to betray the (at the time "these") United States of America when side his state of Virginia took part in it in a multi-state insurrection. To form the Confederacy and leave the rest of the United States as a rump state.

[@Shockkings0714]

Hmmmm defending confederate generals and blasting anti slavers... where have I heard this before?

[@megakillerx]

@@Shockkings0714 “Anti-slavers” is when you indiscriminately murder white women and children.

[@BrownTownReport]

Cant defeat hate with hate. That's how hate gets bigger.

[@MatthewChenault]

@@Shockkings0714, from people who think.

[@abrahamlincoln937]

Mr. Z: Are you still a member of American Virtue?

[@chriswheeler263]

Dumb

[@mr.normalguy69]

This reminds me of a lot of left leaning people who also support Hamas. No consistent grasp on good or evil, but rather every action is justified as long as it is being done by the "good guys" or the "oppressed".

[@trey5747]

That's not a good comparison at all. No left-leaning person supports Hamas. we support the people of Palestine who are facing genocide from Israel. hamas is an Islamic fundamentalist group that doesn't really help the Palestinian people, but because Israel has killed and destroyed any other movements ( peaceful protests, left-wing agitation, other armed revolts,, Hamas is Gazans' only option for resistance right now. John Browns group was more similar to the weatherman who helped the black panther party or the poles who fought for the black people in the Haitian revolution

[@donkeykong1501]

they don't support hamas they dont want palestinians being oppressed by the israelis.

[@Jakov-or7fp]

​@@trey5747around 80% of palestinians Support Hamas, Hamas and Palestein have merged and are now one (probobly because of the propaganda)

[@andrewalderman9489]

Saying John Brown is a hero of the left is like saying Timothy McVeigh is a hero of the right.

[@TheLonesomePagan.]

Exactly, even as a staunch anti-federalist Timothy McVeigh was just a nut job who did more harm than good.

[@jeffpickens4467]

He had a fire song tho

[@hetmanjz]

I'm not the first to point this out, but it's telling how this "last honest historian" dude repeatedly frames abolitionism as somehow oppositional to Christianity. As if one cant be a "real" Christian and an abolitionist. Monsieur Z should try for a future with Hillsdale College or Prager U or some other arm of the right-wing grift economy.

[@Jupiter__001_]

You know he can't be good news if he looks unto Haiti for inspiration...

[@Aman-oi3re]

Keep crying

[@trey5747]

the Haitian revolution was a morally good thing. Slavery wasn't going to end in Haiti without revolt. Slavery in general wasn't going to end basically until the late 1800s or early 1900s and even then if no slave revolts on the scale of Haiti had happened, every black person in the Americas would probably be in a form of segregation or apartheid because the system of western capitalism needs a scapegoat population to work for a higher class, which at the time of the Haitian revolution was black people.

[@donkeykong1501]

if you were a slave would you have fought for your freedom or just accepted the fact that you would die a slave?

[@Jupiter__001_]

@@donkeykong1501 I certainly wouldn't have murdered women and children and committed genocide. Revenge is pointless. Moreover, my Christian beliefs would lead me to submit to my master even though the American chattel slavery was non-Biblical and unchristian, not out of weakness but out of love for those who hate me. But that wasn't relevant to your question. (Slave masters tried to stop slaves from hearing the Gospel because then they might be legally freed, so probably the rebels had never heard it.)

[@natenae8635]

@@Jupiter__001_I will say that you do bring up a often overlooked point of how may slavery owners stood against the very faith they claim to hold by withholding and editing the gospel, to prevent slaves from learning it. However I will disagree that the Haitian revolution was a purely genocidal campaign, as other other groups who were white did exist in the Haitian theatre. The Haitians didn’t kill All the French whites and not all factions supported the mass slaughter of Innocents. However, the white Haitians fled regardless, although people incorrectly assume they were all killed which isn’t the case necessarily, some were spared or just ran. Furthermore groups like the Polish and Hispanic Dominicans were often under Haitian dominance yet both groups were not subject to genocide, as long as they didn’t supported slavery.

[@jayrodthered]

John Brown was the goat. Cope all you want

[@adamnesico]

Like Cromwell?

[@CheckYourMailbox]

@@adamnesico Cromwell and John Brown were both heroes

[@adamnesico]

@@CheckYourMailbox Cromwell would have hated you. You would hate to live in a state ruled by him.

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

as someone who holds history sacred, and who LOATHES the Marvel-esque way we oversimplify this era of history; I thank you for this. You've earned a new subscriber (gonna watch your middle east video next with baited breath XD. ME history is my forte)

[@mazza3571]

As someone who holds history sacred, and who LOATHES the marvel esque way we oversimplify and glorify the south; I thank you for this take, it’s good to count how many people are still ignorant in this world 😂😂

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

@@mazza3571 agreed... Although where is the South glorified? The South were not heroes, but they were not mustache-twirling villains like the pious causers say either.

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

Erm, what the soy? Don't you know that Robert E Lee was literally Thanos and the Northerners are the epic Avengers?

[@scottbiddle3967]

I feel the same way, especially about history. I also have liked, subscribed, & are commenting on this the first episode of his I've seen.

[@vanivanov9571]

What an interesting video. Had forgot it was that time of year.

[@monsieurcharcutier4490]

I like the end part

[@theeternalchronicler3072]

THANK YOU! Been saving this for years.

[@kfiraltberger552]

I can't stop myself from seeing the similarities between defending John Brown and defending Hamas today. "They are justified in slaughter because they fight against an evil" Whether or not you agree that Israel is evil (I myself do not) murdering an Israeli doesn't solve anything, and Israelis aren't at fault for their government being "evil"

[@wmarshal2802]

Comparing Israelis to slavers is crazy work

[@beardthebartender7644]

@@wmarshal2802he isn’t, he’s comparing the cope from the people who support Hamas terrorism & john brown (it’s not a Venn diagram it’s a circle)

[@mementomori1483]

@@wmarshal2802 is it? who ran the slave trade?

[@mazza3571]

Terrible take wtf. Not everything comparable

[@beardthebartender7644]

@@mazza3571 the cope is exactly the same, evil acts are evil acts no matter your motivation for doing them

[@ValentineCorp]

@monsieur_z I highly recommend you watch the mini series ‘the good lord bird’!, It’s a really well done semi-historical mini series starring Ethan hawke about John brown and he is in my opinion the best most accurate depiction of John brown’s character/personality ever put to screen

[@robertmoulds160]

John Brown was on one of the record jackets of the band Kansas carry on my way word son they'll be peace when you are done. The band has another record jacket with a Kansas native nation war chant. none the less John Brown was a murderer.

[@keterpatrol7527]

As a Southerner, I MAY BE BIASED, but I'm reasonably certain that this guy isn't a hero

[@monsieurcharcutier4490]

Agreed.

[@mazza3571]

Every bystander during that period is arguably more evil than John ever was

[@megakillerx]

@@mazza3571 so that justifies genocide, because they were “bystanders”. Got it.

[@monsieurcharcutier4490]

@@mazza3571 you're insane.

[@maxwellli7057]

@@mazza3571 imagine what people 150 years from now will be saying about you because you were a bystander to their contemporary interpretation of historical injustice.

[@Supahpowahnerd890]

I don't disagree with this video's thesis. John Brown intimidated, mutilated, and killed people extrajudicially with the intent to instill terror to further a political goal. That's how I'd define terrorism; the term is obviously a charged one. Whether or not the other side also used terrorism and the moral righteousness of the cause doesn't mean it's not terrorism. That being said, it's important to put Brown's beliefs and actions into the wider context of the time and place. Kansas was already a hotbed of politically-motivated violence on both sides of the debate without Brown, his family, and his allies. While Brown's actions were definitely cruel, murderous, and illegal but they weren't unique to him or abolitionists. A large part of why Brown's legacy is largely positive among liberals and leftists is that he was right in a general sense. The Slavery Question in the US was resolved through immense bloodshed. I'm not saying the Civil War can be reduced 100% to slavery since there were other factors such as the broader, deeper cultural/linguistic gulf between the North and South. That would be like saying the American Revolution can be reduced to the issue of taxes on tea. Nonetheless, slavery was cited on both sides as a reason for drastic political action, including secession and expansion of federal powers. The latter side ended up winning and as someone who lives in Mississippi my ancestors, family, friends, and I live through the legacy. The Reconstruction era also had a great deal of extrajudicial violence and extremism on both sides. I don't consider Brown a martyr nor a villain. He's a human being who killed and was killed. I find common cause with all people who seek to make the world a kinder and juster place but I don't find any common cause with those who shed innocent blood. May we work towards a future where we are each other's helpers and defenders rather than hinderers and accusers.