Why John Doe is So Terrifying

I originally intended to do this video during the month of October, but I ran out of time. There is a subtext this movie has that seems to go unnoticed quite frequently. Most of the time, people tend to focus on the grisly nature of John Doe's actions and, of course, the movie's ending (understandably so). What I'd like to draw attention to are some of John Doe's more subtle motivations. Once you understand them, I think the whole experience of watching this already excellent movie becomes a lot better.
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[@JimbletonJames]

Bruh the narrator sounds exactly like “John Doe” lmao. That was a surprise when i clicked on the video, felt like John Doe was telling me why he was so terrifying lol.

[@pyramidhead7780s]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[@jeromestarrick2288]

He doesn’t

[@mygetrichslowplan]

My exact same thought, hahaha. When he first started talking I was like "Is this dialog from the movie? I don't remember this..."

[@xeixi3789]

He sounds like Jonas Ceika, another video essayist

[@VortexStriker]

John Doe himself said it best, "wanting people to listen, you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore, you have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you'll notice you've got their strict attention."

[@IAmNotMeisterEckhart]

John Doe is a character that believes in a christianity (or rather: catholicism) without Christ. And without Christ there is only sin, but no forgiveness, judgment without mercy.

[@timothyblazer1749]

This doesn't make sense, friend. Who is the judge? I think you may be talking about nihilism, but for some reason are still reifying punishment and judgement as external. Which, without a deity, is inconsistent. Perhaps you mean that without Christ, there is no purpose? That Man without God is amoral?

[@TristanPR77]

That's a dead religion. Interesting that those religious people were the ones who got Christ killed. Christ told them they were full of rules but no love of God in the inside.

[@numnut154]

@@timothyblazer1749 Christianity without Christ is the old testament, the original Judaism, in which God's will is the final judgement and justice.

[@rhabdob3895]

Eh. Disagree.

[@mammon_is_god]

A true holy man, one who sees all are abandoned.

[@chickendrawsdogs3343]

"...burn down society to feel its warmth." is the best thing I've heard all month long.

[@RomanHoltwick1]

Chicken Draws Dogs It is said to be an African proverb: “The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth” I think it is really nice too!

[@RomanHoltwick1]

wearealltubes I don‘t know what you are trying to say, Africa is a continent, not a country. „African“ seems to be as specific as it gets, but if you have more details on the origins of this proverb I‘d be glad to know. :)

[@RomanHoltwick1]

wearealltubes Yup, it is really hard to verify the origins of proverbs like this, at least with a quick Google search. But as long as you don‘t have additional information I don‘t see the point of your comment. Everyone is already well aware that there are multiple cultures in Africa so this information doesn‘t add anything helpful to the discussion. I would also find it interesting which individual person came up with it, but this level of resolution doesn‘t seem to be available. Because I don‘t have any more information I put „It is said to be“ up front, I believe that that is pretty clear.

[@RomanHoltwick1]

wearealltubes It could be fake, sure. If the specific origin is so important to you, you should trace it. Could be interesting! But I wouldn‘t be too sure about this not being from Africa. Just because the exact origin isn‘t recorded or was forgooten due to spreading across cultures, it doesn‘t mean it didn‘t originate in Africa.

[@DeathTheKid6778]

@wearealltubes What is the point in this argument? Does not matter where the proverb came from if it's message is clear.

[@1x93cm]

I always thought that scene with brad struggling with killing him at the end was the best acting he ever did

[@sistertracy-thechurchofroc6574]

Yes, it was...and how many people would have the strength NOT to pull the trigger after the realization of what John Doe has done to his wife and unborn child...on top of the other INSANE crimes he'd committed. I venture to say that not many people would have that level of control.

[@evanmiller2562]

@@sistertracy-thechurchofroc6574 It sucks that we ALMOST got an alternate ending where Morgan kills Spacey instead and Spacey's all like ''NO your upsetting God's work!!'' That would of been better

[@legendarylitening]

@@evanmiller2562 no that would’ve been a garbage Disney fucking ending. No one in that situation would have thought of that idea so quickly

[@evanmiller2562]

@@legendarylitening what the fuck has Disney got to do with it? XD

[@normadesmond6017]

no. his part in 12 monkeys was his best for me.

[@anubusx]

It's scary that you sound like Kevin Spacey

[@jeramysteve3394]

Yeah he kinda sounds like how spacey did in American Beauty and seven.

[@LouisianaGirly]

Yes he does i was trying to figure out who he reminded me of.

[@an18yearoldmongolianguy]

Give me rent

[@edp3202]

Sounds like john malkovich

[@Jspore-ip5rk]

Bruh🤣🤣🤣

[@DavidMyrmidon]

"If you kill him. He will win." My favourite line in the movie.

[@discriminantv]

Sounds like a Thanos Gambit

[@razkable]

but could most of us not kill him when given that chance?

[@DavidMyrmidon]

​@@razkable I would not. Me knowing that the State would lock him up for the rest of his pathetic life, if not kill him.. will be more satisfying than a few seconds of gratification from his death. The Prime reward IS knowing that he Gambled his entire Life's Plan, on me killing him, only to have me take that away from him. I would kill him, (Only) IF/AFTER The System drops The Ball. But it wouldn't be gentle, or Quick.. and no one would EVER know.

[@cjpearce1407]

@@razkable no it would give him what he wants. Why would I do that

[@yerdasellsavon2073]

Good quote but I preferred “somebody call somebody” it shows how everyone would have felt throughout all of the crimes/sins.

[@johndalenino]

Tbh Se7en is the kind of movie I can only watch once because some of the crimes were just too awfully gruesome

[@ricemenarq6230]

because Spacey was just being himself the whole time....

[@maxderrat]

True. :P

[@bernardczaj99]

Yikes. Bravo!

[@TopBurger239]

yeah he really slipped into that character

[@Kacpa2]

Not True. :b

[@racheljohnhyatt4028]

Kevin spacey went into darkness.

[@galacticplastic1741]

*Things like John's actions happens :* ' When there's a strong needs/restrictions, You'll be forced to do what seems forbidden for others '

[@rustydragon4839]

Did you just quote Joker... *Looks at date. Yes, yes you did.

[@TheMarioBurger]

It took me about a minute to realise I wasn't actually listening to Kevin Spacey

[@paulzenco6182]

You have a similar tone of voice as Kevin Spacey, believe it or not

[@brandonp.9371]

You Read My Mind. But What if it’s not the voice of Spacey but rather the voice of Doe?

[@JJLL195]

Sometimes I joke saying “I dream of becoming the source of evil of this world.” In heart I’m not exactly joking, because if I were able to become the one enemy of society in some way is a dream come true, a world when all unite to defeat the evil.

[@solidsnake8330]

Not if I do it first!

[@swalfire1]

Interesting

[@laurenzreichelt4911]

You should watch Code Geass, it’s about exactly that

[@kylerbinder804]

Yup, code geass to a T, main character building an empire over the previous with dictatorship so that a United people figure can tear it down and start clean

[@chetblack8315]

Great movie...about what can happen when a person who lives alone and has too much time on his hands because he is independently wealthy eliminating the need for employment which aside from money can also provide people with time they can spend away from home, being distracted by tasks, interpersonal communication and other beneficial things that could have potentially kept his mind from wandering too far into other people's business and judging them harshly by imposing his own morality onto them and eventually deciding to murder them.

[@nillynush4899]

8:30 That movie being JOKER, which made a Billion+ without Communist China money.

[@Denis-qv5yj]

""""""Communist"""""""

[@tzzzzt6857]

what

[@sentientmeat8975]

I’m shocked that no one has mentioned how much you actually sound like a young Kevin spacey 😂 like seriously I thought this was cut dialog from the fucking movie for about 10 seconds.

[@JulesColour]

Always put off watching seven, I'm gonna be busy this evening

[@KazzArie]

Jules maybe add this to the list after watching 7? kzbin.info/www/bejne/fpOTamuLnt9-Y9k Seems applicable to the portion where Max mentioned normalizing vices

[@lzeph]

@@KazzArie Interesting take on the subject. Thanks so much!

[@KazzArie]

lzeph I kinda disagree with some of the points, people can read what they want to in lyrics, right? A person can read John Donne’s poetry, for example, but without historical context and high-level analysis, do they really comprehend what was going on or what he meant? Just a thought

[@lzeph]

@@KazzArie Yeah. I don't agree with a lot of what he said; I do like to hear other perspectives though, and I now have a better understanding of the whole, 'music is from the devil' concept. I don't have to agree with it to appreciate its rationale.

[@doctordarkness100]

A somewhat rational explanation would be livor. In catholic theology livor is rage,almost hatred, sanctioned by God. Jesus felt and applied livor when he beat the merchants out of the temple,he preached livor when he said to the apostles to sell their cloaks and buy swords. But it is clear that Jesus preached love (tough love also) above all,and abhorred violence save for extreme cases perhaps John,like Joker and the Taxi driver, came from a string of unsuccessfull attempts at love and felt that violence wasn't just the answer,but also the question and the desired result.

[@John-mz8rj]

"The last murder will be the finest murder"...Ego!

[@razkable]

i feel john doe was not working alone an found some crazy person to take the fall for him...there were 2 john does

[@TheBlackLobo]

Loving the Silent Hill 2 music

[@VAVORiAL]

Great analysis, as always. Just saw it a few weeks ago and it definitely aged very well. I'd still love to hear your thoughts about Eraserhead (or Lynch in general) and Mr. Robot tho.

[@atacina]

S.ns. ^^

[@nervoushabit4634]

In every video I watch you say some profound paragraph that expresses those inward feelings we can't always articulate. Its very easy to see how we normalize the abnormal and immoral. I never wrapped my head around it growing up. Even now at 29 I find myself becoming that accepting type to normalize my vices as you say. Only over the past 4 months have I come to realize I lost that part of me who refused to accept things as they are. Its hard being alive sometimes, its always so nonsensical. Sometimes we cant always fight and retreat within. Its so strange.

[@monsiuersmartypants3391]

You even sound like Kevin spacey

[@hugh_jasso]

Wow! Didn't notice until your comment

[@niro56]

9:03 It's not faulty reasoning. Sometimes you uncover what you have to really do in this life, every person's path is different. Most will never even spot it, let alone understand and act.

[@nimeshjeyarajasingam7791]

soo true, most people are just being delusional in the comment section by asserting their moral superiority.

[@alexroselle]

Your description of John Doe sounds like Rorschach from "Watchmen" also

[@HeatherHolt]

Detectivvvvvve! Ugh. So good.

[@niteowl9491]

hahaaa "in a certain light" over that shot of the UV light illuminating HELP ME on the wall was *chef kiss*

[@6reen6uy]

Please more Max. This is the way.

[@TristanPR77]

An interesting point is that in the time of Jesus Christ, there were these religious leaders who had a dead religion and got Christ killed because Jesus exposed them as being empty on the inside. Jesus teached that he came so we could learn to have a relationship with God and not a religion. If you are married to someone, you pay the bills and behave but your heart is not with that person, can you really call that a marriage? Yes, on the outside but is dead in the inside. There is no connection and so you live a dead marriage/religion which is the case of John Doe... Claiming to have a religion and be chosen by God and yet his relationship and his heart was with darkness.

[@user-mr3eq3bj5e]

Seven is one of my favorite movies.

[@birddoug8297]

He’s just a more moralistic, self righteous version of Travis Bickle mixed with Holden Caulfield.

[@WhyTho525]

Travis Bickle would be disgusted by this guy .

[@sabrinajoanne6788]

thank you so much for including holden cauldield in this, back when we read the book in english class i was the only one who thought he was a psychopath or at least has sociopathic tendencies

[@prettypleasewithsugarontop4858]

@@sabrinajoanne6788 i thought he was at minimum a total jerk as well

[@user-fy3nf3lg2j]

Holy fuck this blew my mind, amazing analysis.

[@illumialter8755]

mans played fnaf without getting spooked by a jumpscare, very cool 0:16

[@retroneko2705]

This character reminds me so much of Mr Glass even though they have different motives

[@kennymichaelalanya7134]

*why is Jon Doe narrating*-. I'm scared😰😰

[@alexander9264]

JD was mad at not having cable

[@schneir5]

The show "Disappeared" used to scare the shit out of me!

[@callofdutychile]

Batman: the enemy within's Joker Is called "John Doe" lol

[@ball2144]

And then there’s the actual Batman villain called John and or Jane doe

[@GamesCooky]

Because the Joker's real identity is unknown.

[@justinfalzon6854]

This moron doesnt know John Doe is the name given to unknown persons. Hahah.

[@ck891]

Justin Falzon I know yeah hahah. He should take a look at murder boards for places like Detroit, Baltimore and Philadelphia.. Most of those murders just go down as John and Jane Doe’s. Really sad actually.

[@354Entertainment]

another instant Classic Video thanks Derrat 4 your toughts! + Silent Hill 3 Music on the Video! :-D

[@user-cz9rq5cp4i]

You should really cover the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series of games. I think it would make a very interesting video.

[@franco912]

I prefer this quote "If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use of the rule ?"

[@ClaraLemlichRules]

Mind-blowing theory wow... it makes so much sense...

Two minutes in and I was broken trying to keep up with the narrators script. Way too deep and meaningful.

[@UltimatePerfection]

Okay, I think I will stop right there. Not because I don't want to feel disturbed or am afraid of it, but I haven't seen Seven and want to avoid spoilers before I do.

[@jonathanremruatkima5776]

John Doe is the physical embodiment of human's justice

[@romkew472]

Yea pretty much.

[@arnowisp6244]

Correction. Justice without Mercy.

[@giantsalsa3977]

The narrator sounds like Kevin Spacey himself

[@masterzombie161]

I think what would’ve made the end scene so chilling is that is Brad Pitt sat in the opposite direction of John and says “Your Sin isn’t envy, it’s Hubris. I’m going to make you Pray for Envy every single day of your life.”

[@plasticweapon]

cringe.

[@HeebieKikeberger1025]

John Doe would’ve had a great time in prison. Imagine se7en 2? Doe becomes a shot caller of his own crazy ass religious gang that’s reach extends well beyond the walls of the prison. And succeeds in bringing on the apocalypse. I’d watch that.

[@shadowman2192]

Great analysis! You ever sound like John Doe.

[@timsusss]

Your analysis is amazing!

[@QuantumTelephone]

Imagine thinking the universe is acting through you, like you have no agency

[@kimmyfreak200]

So many parts were left to the imagination. The first victim, gluttony, was a shut in so theres no way john doe would ever run into him so I think this is how he encountered him. I think he delivered his groceries to the home, saw him at the door to get paid and saw his condition physically decided he'd be the first vic and then bought the spaghetti on the day of the murder. We know john had many jobs he was like a chameleon. Such a great movie.

[@kimmyfreak200]

I love the dark lit gloomy cloudy rainy cinematography in this movie..it matches the mood throughout the film very atmospheric...kind reminds me of The Crow from 1994 but less dramatic

[@blaz4333]

you say we don’t know anything about John Doe’s life before the movie, but aren’t the comics about the movie considered canon as well?

[@nanananananananananananana9430]

No. It isn't. It wasn't made by the original writer/creator of the movie itself. It's more of a spin-off rather than a true prequel.

[@renzokata]

What if John Does woke up and found himself in a Saw trap? I think John Kramer would own this guy. But anyways you should read the graphic novels for it shows more about the victims and the murders. I really feel sorry for the fat man. He was alone, in the grips of depression, and had no one to love him, which is why he ate so much, his feeling of emptiness. And he was struggling to loose weight too. John Doe terrorized that innocent man, encouraged and forced him to eat himself to death at gunpoint. When he passed out, John kicked him, which is what killed him.

[@syko2530]

0:52 it was literally in my up next list im scared

[@bbloomfield6497]

Quality video essay. The like count was 665 before I clicked it.

[@kenthefele113]

6:37 Spec Ops The Line background music?

[@Kommandor942]

The only John doe movie I've watched was an Australian one that was a mix of vigilantism and vengeance.

[@josefkonderla8947]

This is an outstanding video essay! Wow! It’s the first time I’ve seen the human side of John Doe.

[@mastereppsreturns6586]

You do not sound like Kevin Spacey. I have no idea what these people are talking about

[@iWillWakeYouUp]

I know you apologized for those white flashes, but was there really no other option than that? Maybe black frames? Sudden flashes of light aren't exactly the safest thing to randomly put in your video. Some people have epilepsy or are just sensitive towards this kind of thing. I'm not trying to be a dick, but just genuinely trying to find another solution. IF black frames would have served the same purpose, I would urge you to do that in the future instead of white flashes.

[@lzeph]

Well said.

[@QuantumCat107]

Oh stop, only 3% of people who have epilepsy even get triggered by flashes of light. Can't adapt for the weakest links, I mean that with all respect. That's shitty thinking

[@lukedoyle3002]

People seem to put up clips like this for the purpose of analysis all the time and it’s totally fine, they just need to put a little disclaimer thing at the start. Look at literally any YMS review/analysis

[@lzeph]

@@lukedoyle3002 Doesn't seem too much to ask for a slight change in future videos to accommodate a not-uncommon condition, but yeah in the meantime a disclaimer would be a great addition to any video that might trigger a seizure.

[@lukedoyle3002]

lzeph That’s not what I meant. People put clips from movies up uncut, without the flashes, just as they are. The disclaimer prevents them being done over for using them

[@KnjazNazrath]

I always thought that Doe was led by Satan in his "God uses Satan to burn sin" angle in his own mind. I also find Eckhart's angle of "Christianity w/o Christ" to be an interesting one. I mean the YT commenter Eackhart and not the writer, obviously.

[@Sam_Pillay]

You ironically sound a lot like Kevin Spacey in this video

[@jasonmuse9554]

That was the first thing I noticed. I was legit creeped out for a second.

[@hilmir]

Yes, sounds like it was narrated by Burnham from American Beauty

[@CoolDrifty]

I was about to say that lol

[@Gyork_]

where's the irony?

[@CoolDrifty]

Gyorkland You really can’t see the irony...?

[@dettlaffvandereretein4251]

Well technically it wouldn't be crazy to say he was chosen by God. Because this is the same god that had Moses "kill every first born of Egypt".

[@ivansotelo4622]

max, i know this isn't exactly related, but i think i could say it here, there's a series of novels called leyend of the galactic heroes, it's so god damn good, it has an anime adaptation of the 80s/90s and a newer one with better phasing now ending it's second season, the series is pretty much what most could say "a game of thrones anime", but it's kinda of an adaptation of the big wars of the xviii and xix centuries, it's really good and realistic, and so many themes are explored, altough it is mostly a political series, i think it does nail it in that aspect, i recommend watching the old anime, but i recommend far much more to read the books, for reasons i think are unnecesary to explain, good video man

[@thomasc2680]

I didn’t know Kevin Spacey had a KZbin channel and commented on his own movies

[@maxderrat]

Hehehe You're not the first person to say that. :P

[@512TheWolf512]

I'd love for you to read "master and Margarita" by Bulgakov and to analyze the character of Voland

[@sethleoric2598]

You should do one on the game BBlasohemous, the miracle is literally Karma a choose your own ending thing, the ruling powers believed their country must suffer and so the miracle made them suffer.

[@Gadowscar]

As a born-again Christian who is quite sensitive and could probably rightly be said to have Savant syndrome, I found the middle of the video quite disturbing. I see way too much of myself in John Doe despite being completely different than him morally speaking. Chilling stuff. :O

[@timsusss]

Dang I wanna know every movie shown at the beginning. I recognize all of them but can’t figure out what they are. Except Shining of course

[@kameelahd7914]

Forgive me but have you read the Seven prequel comic book by Zenescope? It is a very interesting look about they way and who he picked for each sin. A very good read ad hits on some of your points.

[@smoking1212]

he sounds just like Kevin spacey

[@tzzzzt6857]

why did you have to quote joker man

[@Belarus2012]

Fuck me that's horrifying...

[@wyattisrite5153]

I recognize that Yamaoka track.

[@GoldenAgeMx]

Great content!

[@Xehanort10]

I think the alias John Doe is because of the fact that the character's a mysterious blank slate we know nothing about. Just like if someone who's lost their memory gets found they get labelled John or Jane Doe until the police or doctors find out who they are. Same with unidentified dead people.

[@galacticplastic1741]

Just properly realize that we live in a world where, killing is almost _"always"_ allowed & slipped away from proper judgement We needs rules that has proper judgement, what you broke will has its cost

[@kimmyfreak200]

I've seen this movie like 200 times and just now noticed the lust "john" has bright red ligature marks around his neck like huge red rings around it and bruising... I love that they did not show that part and left it up to our imagination and own horror thoughts. But I CAN picture john doe choking and strangling him with a gun to his head forcing him to kill the woman

[@hellwithit]

You do a good job of narrator. More people should learn how to do it.

[@baamnight6878]

The flashing lights.... i my eyes

[@elphaba4674]

He said that he also enjoyed it, something along the lines of shouldn't a worker be proud of his work?" Serious paraphrasing here, but he liked it, he enjoyed what he was doing, chosen or not.

[@IllaLuna17]

What is scary is when people like JD don’t see that what they are doing is wrong. People easily forget, that’s why cancel culture never did really work. JD thought what he did would change the world. Even if the world would Start again you will always have the one who would want to be a leader and people will follow because like sheeps to survive we need leading., and we would get that one who would start to envy that power and leadership, envy will over power other feelings and will want to do evil things and will derail and start to lead does who think like him/her. The story of God and the fallen Angel always repeats. Envy, Greed, Wrath, Pride.

[@user-kb1yo2ny8e]

But we dont even know who he is.

[@BinaryDood]

I remember this show but don't remember this show.

[@elupus01]

Welcome to being a high functioning autistic. Growing up in a Red State I would get sick to the point of vomiting constantly around others and when I settled enough to be alright the teacher changed everything or it was end of the year and I was back to the cycle's beginning. Teachers used me as buffer between trouble kids then punished me for their talking when not trying to put me in special education classes despite a nearly 150 IQ and high test scores. Even in middle school and high school I had to find ways to isolate myself to not get physically sick. I had to read what I could to understand things others take for granted like eye contact and was legal drinking age before I could drop counting in my head how long to hold eye contact. I wasn't even diagnosed till 30 just knew before then it was something I had to hide because the stigma around mental health issues. Even now look at how Fox News and conservatives attack Greata Thunberg because of her autism instead losing an argument on climate change

[@elupus01]

@Aus Tronaut True but I think I made it sound more as a generalization than intended. The US has been so mindf××ked most people don't see how varying levels of rebellion are all part of the system now. Political leanings as well as location leads to more predictable behaviour as people are placed on a scale of full automaton to a true individual. Red State was more of a comment on healthcare statewide being more likely sabotaged to make a virtually lawless for profit free market look better with public awareness less likely or slow due to lack of funding and interesting. Although, again not always the case as seen in the Red States that put citizens over party's views on perceived socialism and expanded public programs, it's a safe bet most still believe in the rugged individualism of the 1800s is the only legitimate way as if the last century didn't change how the world works, or completely lack understanding how much a billionaire needs workers for success

[@dragonknight1297]

the killing of another is not the worst sin - the envy is.

[@faithfuljohn9836]

If we are logically consistent, there cannot be mercy in justice, for mercy is the suspension of justice. Now, the way god is depicted in the bible makes him neither just nor merciful (as far as human morality is concerned. Lev. 21 being an awesome example) but this is another matter. On top of this: can anyone prove gods exist? Any gods. I'll wait.

[@colinkeane7539]

Verbal Kint tells us about on of his alter egos

[@brianmerritt5410]

He wasn't scary, he was annoying.

[@bornjusticerule5764]

great analysis

[@NarwhalSweat]

i'm 14 and i think this is deep

[@wynellferguson8979]

I wasn’t chosen

[@Shmarful]

What’s the movie shown at the near very beginning with the kids running away in terror

[@Orgotheonemancult]

Max, have you ever watched George Sluizer's "The Vanishing"? I think you would like it. Probably the single most chilling fictional work of cinema I've ever seen.

[@kimmyfreak200]

great movie...keifer sutherland

[@SquareDates]

I thought this was about the John Doe tv show. Still a good Movie Character analysis.

[@kaiguynicky7317]

9:35 - 10:01 uhhhhh... sums up 2020 alright...

[@Joxman2k]

Is it me or does Max have a slight John Doe accent? :O