Why Mace Windu Refused to Train Anakin Skywalker in Lightsaber Combat - Star Wars Explained

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[e-mail] Donate to Help Improve Frequency and Quality of Content: / user Why did Mace Windu refuse to teach Anakin Skywalker in Lightsaber combat? In this video we explain why Mace Windu refused to train Anakin how to use his 7th lightsaber form Vaapad and why from the beginning he believed Anakin dangerous.
I believe all content used falls under the remits of Fair Use, but if any content owners would like to dispute this I will not hesitate to immediately remove said content. It is not my intent to in any way infringe on their content ownership. If you happen to find your art or images in the video please let me know and I will be glad to credit you. Business e-mail: [e-mail] Tweet me your questions and suggestions: / stupendouswave Twitter: / stupendouswave End Song By WhiteSand "Eternity" • Whitesand - Eternity (...
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Year: 2017
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[@14Darius28]

I had a problem. padme helped anakins fall. she had 6 years to get anakins mother off of tatoinne she did nothing. she had all of that money and did nothing.

[@James-xx8up]

10* she had 10 years

[@Darkkent83]

Jordon Cole-Samuels good point, never thought of that lol

[@jrokur551]

good point, lol

[@3_0_0_0]

Jordon Cole-Samuels Holy shit

[@14Darius28]

***** your telling me that she couldn't get her money traded in during any of the years before anakins mother died. Cause someone on or near that planet takes money. Hell she could have at least kept an eye out for her.

[@ForgottenHonor0]

What if the council had accepted Anakin for training but denied Obi-Wan to be his teacher? Who would have trained the brash Tatooinian, and how might it have worked out?

[@staticshotaop561]

Nick Craig TheLegend27 would train him

[@losbjornos5214]

YodaWithASoda the use fucking ad block would have teached him

[@J.4855X]

YodaWithASoda ughhh

[@colefilms]

+LosBjornOs no don't use Adblock it's a terrible program that hurts content creators

[@PHillchillll]

I think ki adi mundi, kit fisto or plo koon, maybe mace.....

[@zacharybrown1486]

Bens ghost: How's it going Anakin? What're you up to? Vader: I'm supposed to be ruling the Galaxy, but this one Jedi keeps... Kicking my ass.

[@terminator9348]

Zachary Brown Supposed to be playing game of war, but this one player keeps licking my ass

[@fili0938]

Zachary Brown Is it TheJediMaster27?

[@terminator9348]

Filip Holm Yes! JediMaster27

[@thankyou4742]

don't you mean "hello there" ! you are so uncivilized =)

[@OrchestrationOnline]

I still don't quite get this. Mace Windu was vaping? :P

[@alanwang9732]

lel

[@derekholton9314]

Ya he invented the vape-pen

[@stregannesseb8524]

OrchestrationOnline all bosses vape

[@PunchianThe3rd]

the tobacco was bad for him

[@arturkvieira]

LoL

[@ItsMichaelReid]

Because his lightsaber doesn't say "BMF" for nothing

[@BarbaHectic]

ItsMichaelReid Blowing Money Fast?

[@Diegbone]

ItsMichaelReid it doesn't Samuel L Jackson just asked if it could have that

[@Speetlebeetle]

ItsMichaelReid BAMF

[@callumleaning8828]

Diego Rodriguez it does he said he wouldnt film if the lightsaber wasnt purple and had BMF on it

[@brentgay5122]

Speetlebeetlejt

[@theultimatedoleseeker9206]

Mace flew out the windu

[@J.4855X]

The Ultimate Dole Seeker BADUM TSS haha

[@J.4855X]

The Ultimate Dole Seeker no but that is a good joke well done 😂

[@martintooswoovy573]

The Ultimate Dole Seeker lol

[@fatleg1000]

The Ultimate Dole Seeker That's the name of Sidious' autobiography

[@aggroknight4259]

The Ultimate Dole Seeker I guess he finally decided it was time to open some windows?

[@hermanasparagus172]

I think starkiller could handle it considering he is both dark and light

[@petehansen8116]

u mean snoke??

[@sonarbuge7958]

Pete Hansen is that a spoiler for rogue one?

[@sonarbuge7958]

Pete Hansen actually don't answer that i haven't seen it so I don't want to know

[@terminator9348]

Pete Hansen No, he isn't refering to episode VII and the starkiller base but to a very powerfull dark side apprentice from the videogame "The force unleashed" which unfortunately isn't canon anymore.

[@coolnobodycares]

Herman Asparagus Darth Revan could handle it better. lol

[@jaeusa160]

Even for Windu, Vapaad didn't work out against Palpatine. When Windu had downed Palpatine and Anakin came upon them, Windu was clearly overwhelmed with the Dark Side, insisting that Palpatine be killed on the spot, and refusing to listen to Anakin's objection that it isn't the Jedi way. I would argue that Windu's act was yet another straw that broke Anakin away from the Jedi, cementing his view of the Jedi as hypocrites, and that Vapaad utterly failed its truest test.

[@PDZkrew]

Jaeus A it's arguable. If windu let his guard down to try and arrest palpatine he would've just zapped his ass like he did anyway. I don't think Vapaad failed. Palpatine manipulated sky walker to stepping in and cutting windu hand off and while windu was vulnerable he got zapped and killed. Palatine was an immediate threat and caused so much bullshit in the first place, it's like finding a leech on your body. It has to go immediately. (My opinion)

[@jaeusa160]

Like any good fan also of zombie movies and such, I agree that it's the practical solution. But it's still not the Jedi Order's preference. Revan is probably one of the biggest examples of the Jedi wishing to capture and even possibly redeem a defeated Sith, but they even wanted to do so with Vitiate as well. So pushing to slay a presumably defeated foe is definitely not Jedi-like and screams of Dark Side.

[@v3rdigo]

if you factor in all the manipulation that sidious has done, i personally think that mace was in the right....no coming back from the level of darkness and power sidious had obtained. mace's flaw was in that he just didnt end it.

[@Xenlacasa45]

Jaeus A he's too powerful to be kept alive !

[@larshenry242]

What if stupendous wave never posted his Rogue One review..? would his fans refresh youtube every 3 minutes while waiting? YES!!!

[@TheStupendousWave]

lol, long podcast like spoiler review being recorded tomorrow. Still haven't seen the film to my everlasting shame.

[@ozzy7102]

Shame Shame Shame

[@Vilppy]

+The Stupendous Wave Saw it today, and I LOVED it. Im surprised you're here in the comments when theres surely people spoiling the movie.

[@Chuckiele]

I havent seen any of the Rogue One or Episode 8 videos because of spoilers. ^^

[@rayaanhasan2446]

The Stupendous Wave just a quick question is Mara jade canon I think she isn't but I don't know

[@Lord_Foxy13]

I actually kind of disagree I believe that Mace teaching Anakin could have provided him with a healthy outlet for his emotions and thus possibly preventing his turn that's just my thoughts

[@asadadon]

TheCoool31 I agree too. But I believe that it was actually his jealousy for Anakin. For the reason as to why he didn't want to train him.

[@Corristo89]

Good point. The way the Jedi trained Anakin ultimately caused him to explode with rage, since everything that drove him was considered negative and wrong. They never really let him be a human being and forced him to bottle up his emotions to become a Jedi. All Sidious really had to do was open the lid a little bit.

[@9791mij]

TheCoool31 He needed therapy in the largest order

[@hylianchriss]

Thing is though Anakin was always destined to fall to the darkness. And then find his way back before it's too late. It would have happened regardless. I absolutely love The Clone Wars General Anakin Skywalker, but I despise all other forms. A character with such potential

[@LaitoChen]

I thought so too but remember Anakins core weakness was his insecurity concerning the death of love ones. Anger, frustration, etc, these are all symptoms of an underlying problem and why the Jedi order was hesitant to teach him. Vepad , anger management, a few rounds in the boxing gym wasn't going to fix that

[@IsmaelCiulla]

Galen Marek could learn Windu's form because he was able to balance both sides of the force before he died

[@IsmaelCiulla]

As well as Revan

[@Cameza444]

Starkiller's powers were stupidly inconsistent so he may have been able to use it to some affect and in regards to Revan he only momentarily managed to achieve dark/light side balance on a few occasions before the mess that is is SWTOR story happened and using vapaad would probably have made this happen even faster. Sad to say even if these two were still cannon they probably wouldn't be able to use vapaad very successfully and almost definitely wouldn't be able to achieve a mastery like Windu's although i'm a pretty big fanboy of both.

[@IsmaelCiulla]

Cameron Young I'm a fanboy of Galen Marek, Starkiller, Revan, and Kira Carsen

[@Cameza444]

To be honest I never really played through the Jedi knight class all the way so i didn't experience her whole story but Kira Carsen seems pretty cool I guess.

[@IsmaelCiulla]

Cameron Young I have played the Jedi knight full and Kira is amazing

[@diekritik3939]

I think Anakin could've managed to master Vapaad, as in my opinion it'd help him, embracing his emotions but also not be consumed by them. I think if Anakin had been trained in the ways of this form by Windu, he would've eventually reached a point, where turning to the dark side would've been impossible, due to him already having dark side emotions but knowing, how to use them for the purposes of the light side.

[@shawnwolf5961]

No. Anakin's personality type just wouldn't allow it. He probably shouldn't have even been trained in the Jedi ways at all, if we're going to he real about it

[@williamhoang4077]

Shawn Wolf The Jedi way doesn’t even make sense. They still need a lot of change. Luke’s Jedi Order is far more realistic.

[@MattFyrm]

@@AH-ng7zt but how is that different from mace before he created the form?

[@MLGProTroller]

@@thomassumner6274 Anakin agreed to not have attachments, and also took an oath to the Jedi Order, and how did that work out?

[@alorhabaga5592]

I believe Luke would be able to train in that form

[@caseyheath8131]

Very good point, I didn't think of that. Luke is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who could have potentially mastered it

[@betaraybillfan1750]

Alorha Baga all records of the form were probably lost

[@bimbocindy]

Alorha Baga What about Dooku when he was the Master of Qui-gon could he have possibly mastered it?

[@caseyheath8131]

Dooku eventually turned to the darkside. It's reasonable to say vaapad would have turned him sooner because he could not have maintained that delicate balance between the light and the dark without crossing over.

[@bimbocindy]

The only other person I think that might have a slim chance to master vaapad is Starkiller (Galen Marek) as he was able to bring himself back from the darkside

[@daemonblackfyre3238]

Mace never taught Anakin vaapad because he planned on killing him if he turned. xD

[@Joey-db8bv]

I think many other Jedi could master it like Windu did, but most did not want to even try! Most Jedi clearly saw the danger with the Vaapad form and the danger in using it. I don't think Mace could just train anyone he wanted! He most likely had to get permission from the council or Yoda, because of the danger with this fighting style!

[@Ebroglio2]

Luke would be the perfect candidate to learn Vapad - if there were a master alive who knew it, or a Holocron from MW. Too bad they're all dead and destroyed.

[@zaxophne]

Force ghost?

[@silviafox78]

I think the only force ghost who could teach that would be Mace himself... although Mace may actually be Snook...

[@tonywright9906]

Not true there is a Holocron or two, With Vaapad on it.

[@dazdavis7896]

Silvia Fox HAHAHAHAHAHA. My god please tell me you didn't actually believe that when you wrote that comment.

[@yoshiyrn7272]

@@silviafox78 snoke is Palpatine

[@hamza7206]

if mace windu did train him he would be so op

[@ItsDazzalad]

he is op you mad guy, was op hes dead af now

[@unknown404x]

Loved the Snoke cameo in Rogue One

[@starwarsking4505]

ToxicDubZ where

[@juri5624]

ToxicDubZ funny

[@DarrielOni]

We are all Snoke... in our 𝒽𝑒𝒶𝓇𝓉𝓈

[@craigm2520]

Spoiler alert he is not in the film. I saw it last night so everyone calm their panties.

[@stayfrosty3720]

ya me too NO SNOKE

[@saintpaix9529]

I feel like Qui Gon would be the best candidate for learning Vaapad, Obi Wan seems like the type who could have learned the form, but had no reason to. I also feel that Luke might be a good candidate, but if you placed him in a setting where the Jedi order was still a thing and Mace was around to teach then I don't know if that would be the case.

[@samkutana925]

Wow, great channel! Everything is well researched and well-presented, hats off you

[@robertagu1866]

Well since you asked, true Va Padd could've turned him BUT since you have to master both loyalty and emotions particularly those that turned lightsiders dark it could've also been the think to teach Anakin how to control everything that would've kept him potentially the most powerful Force user the Jedi ever had if he'd learned to control and beat his emotions, flaws and darkness that ultimately made him Vader. As the journey to learn and then Master it could've been what taught him to correct all these flaws. Including to teach Mace to not be so fearful, mistreating and perhaps even in a few ways even seeing Anakin as a rival as then he could've personally seem to it that Skywalker remained good. An also personally shaped Anakin into the ultimate anti Sith that could've even went head to head against even Palpatine 1 on 1 and won. But that all would be hinged on keeping Anakin good and him learning to master himself and everything that eventually caused his fall.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

I agree, but I feel like if Anakin had been trained by Windu from the beginning your completely right. I'm not faulting Obi-wan here, he was a great master. But not the master that Anakin needed. As for why Mace didn't like Anakin from day one he could sense the darkness and what he would do (as well as Anakin being an arrogant little prick, from the time he started because of his natural aptitude.)

[@Xenlacasa45]

mozart mario what I have I done !?

[@jedistudios19]

Stupendous I think if Qui Gon Jin was still alive he could have mastered it but, he would have probably refused to. Qui Gon was more on the passive side of fighting and not very agressive. I feel that if he had trained and mastered vapaad before his duel with Darth Maul he could have won or at least held off until Obi-Wan could have joined in to help. This would have saved his life and possibly prevented Anakin from turning to the dark side. P.S. - Do a video about what would have happened if Darth Maul had lost the duel to Qui Gon Jin.

[@baileymoore7779]

I'm not even all that into Star Wars but I find myself binge watching your videos. Great job.

[@EwingAmaterasu]

"To confront a person with his own shadow, is to show him his own light" Carl G. Jung This is the essence of Vaapad!!

[@Phantom4Flyer]

3:57 Windu almost seems to be saying "Bring it, bitch!"

[@fujiapple9675]

If only Anakin was trained by Master Yoda.

[@martintooswoovy573]

fugiapple96 no ...

[@Loqueteron]

dooku sends his regards

[@MMZERO9]

fugiapple96 Not a good idea.

[@moonreaper83]

Uh the whole reason Anakin went dark was Yodas teachings... The whole thing is Yoda teaches the basics at a young age before you've developed any of your own personality traits or early enough to alter them. Anakin would been a sith by episod 2

[@fujiapple9675]

I thought the most crucial aspects of Anakin turning to the Dark Side was the death of his mother, killing Count Dooku, and the visions of Padme. I also think Obi Wan being Anakin's master was harmful to Anakin because they were a similar age and Anakin felt like he was being held back. I do agree with you in the sense that Yoda's "let go of your feelings" philosophy would have clashed with Anakin's personality. Qui Gon may have been better for Anakin than Yoda, Mace, or Obi Wan. Just as long as he didn't end up like Xanatos.

[@alancharles6513]

Your video quality never ceases to amaze me, keep up the great work Stupendous you're truly one of the best Star Wars channels on KZbin!

[@Jamahran]

timeline and continuity aside; here are excellent candidates for Vaapad: Kotor: Zayne Carrick, Meetra Surrik (Exile), Jolee Bindo, Ngani Zho, Revan (maybe). (ABY): Kyle Katarn, Jaden Kor, Luke Skywalker, Finn (TBD), Ray (TBD). (BBY): Tholme, Dass Jennir, Quinlan Vos, Kanan Jarrus, Ezra Briger (TBD). My decision comes from the fact that Vapaad exist in the grey area of the Force. as such, most of these candidates live and operate in the neutral spectrum of the force; another fact is that they find creative or out of the box for solving solutions (innate or by circumstance) their is also the fact that they carry a bagged past but most seem to be capable of overcoming their Personal Issues.

[@shiningstar6659]

I believe Plo Koon would have thoroughly mastered Vaapad had he chosen to study it under Mace. He has the wisdom, calmness, and understanding that allowed him to be fully anchored in the Light Side of the force while also enjoying a good and challenging fight himself.

[@vynonyoutube1418]

From what i've heard, Plo did want to learn Vaapad at first, but he considered it too dangerous, so he went for Djem So instead.

[@shiningstar6659]

Interesting, I had not heart that. If that's true, I wonder if he felt that way early on in his training to become a Jedi Master. He eventually was the only Jedi who used what is considered a dark side ability, aside for Windu's use of Vaapad, in his variant of force lightning, Electric Judgment. And he mastered this ability without sensing any dark side energy flowing thru himself.

[@thedarkknightdetective2559]

revan would be perfect for this

[@bonzwah1]

pre tor canon maybe. but tor's development of revan's character made him someone who desired power and control, for good ends maybe, but ultimately a power seeker. so much so that a side of him refused to accept death and became an embodiment of darkness.

[@DangeRoss_]

Daniel Mann truth!

[@frankieleigh1625]

bonzwah1 e

[@DarkKnight52365]

revan at the end of kotor i agree with but the version of him from after 300 years of torture wouldnt be a good fit

[@Abysia]

But tor is shit and ruined kotor so fuck it. Its writing is like a bad fanfiction.

[@Realbobo]

dont usually watch these, but i payed close attention to all of it. keep it up man, you got a future

[@michaelcoon3075]

I have watched most of your videos.

[@alexkuhn5188]

Mace Windu was the most powerful Jedi when it came to emotional stability by accepting his darker emotions which would include fear thus his darker emotions never hindered him once and he only lost due to interference in the fight by others. I personally like him the most as a Jedi because his form of saber fighting made him the Jedi with near INFINITE potential due to including darker emotions rather than suppressing them!

[@AlexYBITW]

Please, do a video on what if Jar Jar really was a Sith Lord, at least what if he was really working with Sidious in the shadows, how Episode II and III would have turned out

[@mwaryan1998]

Thanks for doing this for me!!!

[@sugarking12]

Reven probably could of pulled it off had it existed

[@muscularclassrepresentativ5663]

Ocazzar Ehh, depending on which Reven at which time, he didn't exactly have a good history in terms of not swinging to the darkside, but I guess at the end there was a chance. I'd love to see Starkiller learn the form somehow because after a full swing to the light side and eventual willing sacrifice to save the rebellion he still used force lighting just fine, so he obviously found a balance within himself. It would be fun to see

[@Silverhawk100]

I dunno. Revan was motivated by important Light-side principles (defend the weak, etc), but his approach was about exerting his own will on the galaxy. He didn't have to use the Star-Forge, a known Dark-side artifact, but he did in order to try to rebuild the galaxy to defend it, bully any who got in his way.

[@Cameza444]

He never really found balance though except temporarily. He was forever flipping the switch of light and dark and occasionally finding balance until eventually the toll of his inner struggle fucked him up majorly. He probably could have used vapaad for a time but it would likely have sped up that process. Revan was no doubt very skilled in the light and the dark but he was most definitely not incorruptible.

[@cw8803]

Cameron Young I really dont think he thought of it as light and dark. Ive always found his actions to be centered on what was for the greater good of the galaxy and what he needed to do to achieve it. At least pre-death split personalities anyways.

[@moonreaper83]

Personally I think Reven would have learned and then adapted it. Reven was never one to just do something. As far as his switching sides. Heres the thing about Vaapad I don't think the light and dark side works the way the Jedi explain it. Many people are sensitive to the force and never fall yet they violate jedi law. I think the force is like our world just that power currupts and the force is power. Reven only did what he believed was right. He was uncurruptable. His inner justice never strayed just is his lean in the dark side and remember the Jedi LIE A LOT. Vaapad would have been dangerous for the universe had Reven known it but has so many different skills to utilize that Vaapad would only tilt him to being more OP not make him OP.

[@chriswedemann8599]

I wonder how Yoda would handle Vapaad. Little and quick, he is.

[@damenwhelan3236]

Chris Wedemann and insanly against the dark. to thebpoint it clouds his mind.

[@chriswedemann8599]

Yeah, no doubt about that.

[@bashmeehan5561]

yoda is a master of Vapaad and all forms of lightsaber combat

[@hectoraliegbe9429]

@@bashmeehan5561 Yoda neither learned both the classical style of Form VII Lightsaber Combat (Juyo), nor its modern variant co-created by Mace Windu and Sora Bulq (Vapaad).

[@sadketchupg]

god jedi are so fucking indecisive. honestly the amount of people they lost because of just bugs me.

[@brcha]

religious zealots, basically.

[@autumrose1]

Yea and their indecisiveness and staleness was their downfall.

[@calcmandan]

This is the best description of the vaapad mythos I've ever heard.

[@calcmandan]

I agree that Anakin was likely the worst candidate to learn Vaapad. He hungered for the power and it would've triggered his fall to the dark side. Perhaps that should've been the story arc that led to his fall versus the horrendous arc of episode 3.

[@rugal00030]

Dude i love you channel its awesome

[@AzraelJericho]

You should do a video on what if Mace Had trained Anakin. It could be interesting to hear whether it countered Anakins darkness or did indeed make him spiral more quickly and also if it would change things such as his encounter with Obi Wan when he got injured. Would the outcome be the same? would Anakins dsrkside powers have been stronger? etc.

[@agustinbaletti]

if Anakin stsyed in the temple windu would have trust him and teach him harder about the dark side and how to avoid It while teaching him vaapad

[@luckysnipergamingftw7270]

Agustín Baletti but if he tought him vapad sidious would have turend him to the dark side esier

[@agustinbaletti]

luckysniper Gaming ftw maybe not. Maybe Anakin would have been trained VERY STRICT about the dark side and the light and how to stay out. Maybe the thing IS not about if he learned vappad por not. The thing IS that he would have to choose: padme or vappaad. If vappaad IS so restricted even when you dont have so powerful attachments as marriage, WELL... He should have to choose, if not, It would have been waaaay easier for palpatine as you say

[@kylescoolclips]

So interesting! It's just so good!

[@chainsawpanda2]

I have another suggestion Stupe! As we all know the battles in stars wars could end in thousands of different ways. Now while you excel at looking at the big picture I implore you to look into the following topic and perhaps use it to make some videos. Star Wars The Clone Wars: War-games Example: How could Ima Gundi Hold ryloth using the forces he had at the beginning of the invasion? Was there some way for Gundi to establish a defensive position using ryloths geography? What tactics could he have employed to stall the separatist advance? Was it possible to hold Ryloths Capital city of Lessu with the meager planet based republic forces? This exercise will be treated as a classroom style thought based war game in which we will take the role of Jedi Master Ima Gundi. The forces available to you will be the Republic clone Garrison of 30 - 60 Troopers (including Captain Keeli) with weapons ranging from standard blasters and detonators to limited anti-armor weapons (rps6's) and tripod mounted medium blaster cannons. Your garrisons ground and air vehicle compliment will consist of 2 fully crewed AT-TE walkers, 6 Barc Speeders, 4 ATRT Scout Walkers, 1 Flight (5 aircraft) Of Ground based V19 Torrents and 1 wing (3 bombers) of ground based BTL Y wing Fighter Bombers. You will also have 2 fully kitted Ground attack Variant LAAT gunships complete with Composite beam lasers. The Torrents and BTL's will become unavailable quickly due to the Separatist the blockade and subsequent lack of resupply from the retreating Republic ships. The Droid invasion forces will consist of 500 B1 Battle Droids based out of Landers and MTT's, 250 Super Battle Droids based out of MTT's, Landers and HMP Gunships, 100 Destroyer Variant Droidekas and 50 Dwarf Spider Droids (both via Lander Reinforcement). The enemy vehicles will consist of 10 MTT Troop Transports, 20 A.A.T's. 20 Stap Speeders and a compliment of 10 Heavy Artillery Cannons. Enemy Air support will consist of 1 squadron ( 21 aircraft) of Vulture droids, 3 flights ( 3 per flight) of Hyena Bombers and 2 flights (3 per flight) of HMP Droid Gunships fitted with Droid racks. For the purposes of this scenario your food, fuel and ammunition will dwindle at an increased rate due to the swift sacking of the republic defense fleet and loss of supply lines. The objective is to hold Ryloth for 3 days against an invading droid force. Just to clarify the Win condition is to delay the Seperatist advance on Lessu long enough for relief to arrive. AGAIN YOU HAVE 3 DAYS TO HOLD OUT. You will be receiving consistent support from Syndulla and his militia however the militia is a lightly armed group of relatively untrained soldiers. Syndullas fighters consist of 150 militiamen and 50 beast riders armed with small arms and detonators. I look forward to your thoughts on doing videos which focus on an analyses of Clone Wars battles and their outcomes.

[@Channelx503]

Mace Windu was one of the best Jedi ever!

[@Channelx503]

liked the video♡ thanks

[@RawkL0bster]

WAS!

[@39Hundred]

LUVnu Trebor Coleman was better than Mace Windu.

[@clydemarshall8095]

Looking back at his experiences, I think that Kyle Katarn has the potential to master Vapaad.

[@darthportus]

Too bad that he is no longer canon. Not even possible canon.

[@clydemarshall8095]

My headcanon is pretty much Legends Continuity. I honestly don't like the new "Canon" Continuity. I did not enjoy The Force Awakens that much. To me, Kyle Katarn and not this Jyn whatever is the one who really stole the Deathstar plans.

[@darthportus]

Clyde Marshall Did you watched the Rogue one movie ? It is actually good.

[@clydemarshall8095]

I have not seen it because I have no interest. Based on what I know of it this film is a bit of a final retcon of the events of Star Wars Dark Forces. For that reason I have little interest in it.

[@darthportus]

Clyde Marshall You should stop being so close minded. You shouldn't judge movie that you didn't saw yourself.

[@TheToolinator]

It's an interesting question. We know that part of Anakin's turn was because he felt betrayed and untrusted by the Jedi. We also know that Mace in particular was very wary of Anakin. In the ROTS novelisation, during his duel with Dooku, we see Anakin embrace his darkness and he still (sorta) resists the Dark Side way until Sidious tells him to kill Dooku, so I think if he had been guided the other way, he probably could have managed Vapaad. I think if the Jedi Order had done a lot more to make Anakin feel welcome, his turn probably wouldn't have happened at all. So I also think that if Mace had willingly- warily perhaps, but willingly- taught the form to Anakin, it actually would have helped.

[@zoribelrivera-lopez9780]

I like your videos. And I believe that to fully understand The Force, you should have knowledge of Ashla and Bogan and decide your path. But I want to add something about the training of Master Vos in Vaapad. After loosing his memory, he was retrained by various masters. Master Sora Bulq, without the knowledge of the council of his defection to the Dark Side, was at the Jedi Temple. While there, he was instructed to retrain Master Quinlan Vos in Lightsaber Duel Forms. He trained Master Vos in the 7th form without the knowledge of Master Windu or any of the Masters of the Council. This was dicovered by Mace Windu when he was in a friendly combat with Master Vos and Vos, not remembering this form was not to be teach to any padawan and moreover after what happend to Master Billaba, asked Vos how or where he learned that movement. Master Vos told Windu that Sora Bulq taught him.

[@Obiwan1994Kenobi-iv4jf]

Anakin may have been able to master it, or at least learn from it. If he was allowed to learn Vaapad, he probably would understand everything a whole lot better, he probably wouldn't strike down on Windu after his fight with Palpatine, having learned so much from him on how to properly keep the dark side away.

[@seeker4it]

:D He actually made a video on the topic I brought up!

[@d.dementedengineerc99isurf26]

Good job with that suggestion!

[@fergusb]

Hey love your videos. Don't know if you ahve done this already but could you do a video on the deathstars? Like how many the empire planned on building. If you ahve already done something like that can you link me to it? Keep up the great work.

[@johnhamilton7603]

Love your comments it helps me since i cannot access the comic books

[@tayetrotman]

I wonder why Yoda never tried it. He knew that when the Sith master was revealed, it would most likely be him, mace or Anakin facing the Sith, that he would make sure all three were prepared to fight a dark lord. Both Anakin and Yoda learning Vapaad would be a good idea. But I guess that maybe Yoda just didn't have the darkness in him to effectively use Vapaad. I guess I just don't see how Vapaad must have been the reason Windu succeeded against Palpatine until Anakin arrived, since Yoda was definitely stronger and more skilled.

[@bagamoyosandisland]

Taye Trotman pretty sure yoda did in his own way. When he goes toe to toe with sidious in a force-lightning duel, you can see that yoda at first is a bit overwhelmed but then...... he turns on vaapad mode and starts rechanneling the lightning towards sidious. Yoda's expression is one of confidence, as he may have just acquired a new skill in the heat of battle. Sidious' face looks worried, right before......... yoda loses that battle

[@TheLeon17_]

bagamoyosandisland Yoda never nor knows vapaad he knows Ataru and Juyo Juyo is a grandpa version if you can call of vapaad

[@TheLeon17_]

Taye Trotman Yoda is very in depth with the lightside of the force and is very strong with it anyways yoda uses the grandpa like version called Juyo which is the grandpa of vapaad

[@tayetrotman]

tutuip1 Vapaad is a variation of juyo. But juyo does no allow you to use one's dark side power against them, or to use your own emotion. Juyo would be no more affective than any other form against a powerful Sith, and juyo is also the only incomplete form, so it is often used in conjunction with Djem So or Atari. However, the different variations of juyo like Vapaad complete the form.So what I said still stands. Besides, if any Jedi could use but resist the dark side it's Yoda, I mean he has had to control darkness within him for over 800 years. And he even says in the clone wars that he accepts that there is darkness within him, and that is the first step of Vapaad. All he would need to do is use it, as he already has control of it as we see in the clone wars season 6.

[@tayetrotman]

tutuip1 Juyo is not a grandpa version either, it's the form. Vapaad is a variation of it. Like how Djem So is a form, but Vader created a variation of it to overcome the shortcomings of his suit, or how Yoda made a variation of Ataru capitalised on all airborne fighting to overcome the weakness of his short stature

[@hasoonnine]

what if the stormtroopers did not miss

[@totalawesomeness2310]

Hasoon nine then the rebels would be screwed

[@athibi9461]

I feel like Mara Jade could have also mastered Vapaad seeing how she was not only familiar with her own darkness but also achieved the rare feat of actively rejecting it's influence.

[@MrYeodaddy]

Great video. This is the first time I've heard of Vaapad. Question, if this form draws from the darkness of the user and their opponent, would it be ineffective against a light-side user

[@Tomato1224]

Mace Windu was pretty ... dark >:)

[@theSamaraie]

Tomato1224 raciest

[@FenixF03]

hahaha!

[@CoolMoeDea21]

Mace is the ace with the helpful hardware blade.

[@Sam-im5tc]

Heres an interesting little scenario. What would have happened if someone other than Obi-Wan took Anakin as their apprentice such as Kit Fisto,Plo Koon,Ki-Adi Mundi,Yoda,or Windu. I'd like to see a video on those scenarios.

[@endershepard7117]

Great vid bro! I would definitely make mastering the 7th Lightsaber Form: Vaapad. A top priority if I was force sensitive. Along with becoming one with the Force, in the flesh. And returning to life from being a Force Ghost like Obi-Wan Kenobi. By possessing a tabula rasa, clone body of myself. I think that might work as a true resurrection, actually...

[@gilbertoserrato1000]

Can you do a what if on if Anakin never told mace that the Emperor was a sith

[@Blazeblitz9000]

I'm early :0 hi stupendouswave. your videos are awesome

[@Okochaida]

your*

[@alex70531ify]

+Okochaida you're

[@JunaWaAmin]

Just hit the subscribe button. Thanks for every video you've done, bro.

[@JunaWaAmin]

*past, present and future.

[@TheStupendousWave]

Thanks so much!

[@maximosmausten7668]

stupendous wave please do a video on the malevolence or any other starship so that were like it

[@BlackWingedSeraphX]

Anakin would have turned evil faster, then (as Vader) he'd have been even HARDER for Luke to beat.

[@TheZombielayer]

i mean, if he turned fast enough there might not of been a luke, not to mention he might not of ended up as a giant black dildo either

[@This_is_Fah]

BlackWingedSeraph luke never defeated Vader, vader didn't use full force he was toying with him every encounter

[@SaberFate]

BlackWingedSeraph yea and another thing to consider when they first fought, luke copied his lightsaber firm as he never learned any other one. luke copying vapaad could've been deadly for luke.

[@Lynchotype]

Luke did defeat Vader

[@alphathefearlessgamer5054]

anybody else waiting for part 2 of what if Obi-Wan Kenobi joined Count Dooku ?????????????????????? seriously I can't wait for part 2

[@abazabaabazaba4177]

What an interesting video!

[@overmind521]

If qui-gon weren't so old i believe he could have mastered vaapad. He was noted as having a deeper connection to the force than most of his peers while staying rooted in his personal beliefs. Dukou said in episode 2 that he believed qui-gon would have joined him, but i don't think that is true, because dukou was blinded by his disdain for the jedi order and qui-gon would have sensed that. Jinn only ever wanted to what was more or less "right" and fully believed that the force always guided him.

[@Quesly1]

of course the only black jedi is the one whos the master of tapping into darkness

[@TLedoux-px4xl]

can you please do a therory video on what if mace was anikens master

[@Tesladavid]

I'd say that Qui-Gon Jinn could master it(being a semi-grey Jedi), but considering his first Padawan turned to the Dark side, he'd be wary to use any style of fighting that mixed with the Dark side. He also was more focused on actually using the Force in a balanced way rather than combat.

[@orangemaster345]

Hey Stupendous Wave, your next video should be what would happen if Darth Vader & Captain Rex meet again. It would be a cool thing to talk about given their history in clone wars

[@JEBLego]

Rogue One was spoiled for me before I could see it...I wanna die I've been so excited for that movie for over a year now only to have it spoiled the day I was going to see it-literally 6 hours before I was gonna see it. I'm SOOOOOOOO pissed.

[@mrgibbets34]

JEB Lego dude, that's absolutely blows. People need to learn to be more considerate.

[@BunkJunkinsJR]

JEB Lego that sucks man, I'm sorry. I would however suggest leaving the internet in the time that you haven't seen a film. I had Han Solo's fate spoiled for me for TFA and I've vowed to go to midnight releases for all the future films.

[@lukemorosini4]

That's why you should always stay away from things related to that movie on the internet if you don't want the movie spoiled on you.

[@mrgibbets34]

Yankee Fan101 sometimes people are assholes and just talk about it anywhere. When TFA came out, people commented pictures of Han's death on Facebook posts that had no relevance whatsoever to Star Wars.

[@JEBLego]

George Harvey same thing happened to me

[@RPDSurvivor]

I don't what it is about 3:36 but the way you say "Dark Side" is oddly satisfying.

[@robsmith4824]

After reading shatterpoint Mace was a bad ass!!! I would be totally shocked if he didn't live after revenge of the sith. Was Yoda so close to the light that he would never use Vaapad? Great video, as always, love to hear more about scourage, lol. I know I've asked already, I thought I read he eventually help bring down the sith emperor and kind of tip toed around the light side which was strange for a pure blood sith.

[@dannymerfeld7711]

I think that the philosophy of Vaapad would need to not only be explained but understood at a person's core before even attempting to learn it. Those that seek to use it for power would certainly get what they want, but in the end it would be at the cost of their humanity. Perhaps Anakin would be able to use it effectively without succumbing to darkness, but then again he didn't understand or feel what Vaapad really was.

[@bigjake360t]

Riku from Kingdom Hearts

[@MoRoKeiFrOd]

bigjake360t omg, now everything fits!

[@callmeinstead]

I have a feeling that if Mace did teach Anakin Vaapad, Anakin likely might have been able to use it much in the same way Mace did: to quell the pull of the dark side within him.

[@truesoulghost2777]

Yup

[@mageolight5258]

A lot of people keep mentioning Anakin, saying that maybe if he had learnt it, he'd have found a way to vent his own inner darkness, much like Mace's reason to develop it. The difference lies in the fact that Mace Windu didn't crave power. He was just an aggressive person, so he tried to vent it all out by developing Vaapad. Anakin wanted to be stronger to prove himself because he was fed the idea that he was the chosen one from the start. He also had attachments that Mace didn't have, in the figure of both his mother and Padme. Also, many mention Qui-Gon Jinn as a possible candidate, but his problem is that he did crave power and was curious enough to delve into the dark side. Vaapad is not the use of the dark side, but the expression of violence as a natural defense. Qui-Gon was susceptible to the dark side as Gandalf was susceptible to the One Ring. I believe the best candidate for learning Vaapad would be Luke, although I don't know whether he'd find a way to learn it. Like Mace, he has that inner darkness within himself, manifested through anger and resentment from a life as an orphan in a barren land, but he doesn't crave power for himself. He also abhors Sith and the dark side, much like Mace does.

[@Intreductor]

Stupendous Wave. What do you think about Admiral Trench? I see him somewhat as a underrated character who had a certain power of strategy like Grand Admiral Thrawn.

[@sherrattpemberton6089]

nah, Mace was right - Anakin was to unstable to learn his form

[@jonshreve3257]

I think Yoda could have learned it

[@Ghillieguy117]

Mace Windu is my favourite character so naturally I had to watch this

[@vandarik5766]

The Stupendous Wave please make a video on what if Anakin remembered his time on mortis!!!

[@BlakPanthaa]

I think he would have mastered it if both Mace windu and Yoda trained him. I have to things you should discus. 1) What if Mace windu trained Anakin. 2) What if Yoda trained Anakin.

[@TheSunStudio1]

Qui Gon would've master it if he wanted to, he was well known in the Jedi Order to be a Grey Jedi.

[@vynonyoutube1418]

Probably not. Qui' Gon was about to lose himself to the Dark Side at some point.

[@legomoviesstudios8822]

Stupendous wave when will you make a rogue one review?

[@zacharyrose7217]

A Skywalker using vapad?? Sounds GLORIOUS.

[@elvinsmatthew]

jainia solo coould have mastered vappad

[@randomelk9801]

i think anakin could have trained in vapad and learn to control hes dark side

[@d.dementedengineerc99isurf26]

At the worst, a healthier outlet to his passion beats the crap out of no outlet at all, which is what the Order forced upon him. Pitiful...

[@LawrenceCaldwellAuthor]

Cool video.

[@maximosmausten7668]

stupendous wave please do a video about who's cybernetics work better Vaders or general grievous's

[@christaggart5687]

And yet, the fight between Sidious and Windu sucked in the movies. It had so much potential to be a good one

[@Chuckiele]

It was very good, just too short.

[@diesenutss]

It was an absolute joke

[@reniam]

Ian McDiarmid looked like he had never held a baseball bat in his life. let alone a sword.

[@giggityguy]

Lucas decided relatively close to the shooting date that he wanted the fight to have a lot of close ups on the characters' faces throughout and during the fight, which made the use of stunt doubles unfeasible. They were limited by the fact that Ian McDiarmid was rather slow moving and had no experience with saber combat. I guess I understand the desire, as a director, to dig into the emotions of a scene, but honestly it was a bad way of interpreting the scene. For one, Mace doesn't have a huge personal emotional stake in the battle, so focusing on the emotions on his face doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Windu and the three other masters who came with him represented the most powerful of the Jedi's protectors. Their defeat should have conveyed just how powerful and menacing Sideous truly was, and how even the strongest of the Jedi couldn't stand against him. An intense and flashy battle would have gotten that across much better. Then again it might have been hard to reconcile that with Sideous' act of defeat and forcing Anakin to make a choice

[@JohnathanBowser]

could have been worse tbh u do remember the "I hate sand"

[@Sithwithaps4]

shrek could master it tbh

[@bricktamland9367]

Sith with a ps4...I miss the donkey😭

[@Sithwithaps4]

Brick Tamland it's okay shrek... :(

[@AgentRedgrave]

I could see two ways of thinking for this. On one hand, Anakin had a temper, so yeah it could have made him turn much sooner. On the other hand, it could have provided a healthy outlet for his anger. You say Mace's apprentice was even-tempered? Well okay then, Anakin already has a temper, and is more use to dealing with it. Least he was. Luke could have made one hell of a Vaapad duelist though

[@matthewfinch421]

I believe that Quigon Jin could have mastered vapad because he only listened to the force so was completely set on the light side of the force

[@AllieZelda]

mara Jade could have mastered it

[@terminator9348]

Nice Link The dark woman probably

[@terminator9348]

and Vygere

[@richardnammour8962]

Nice Link ashoka could master that form

[@AllieZelda]

hmmm...Ahsoka...possibly

[@ye7170]

Richard Nammour ...... remember what happened to her she turned dark so she could turn again but.......... now she can she is very wise

[@rekonkill7530]

It was too much effort for him lol

[@FunClockwork]

lmao

[@N173M43R]

I have to call you out man. While Depa's brief turn to the dark side was likely aided by her use of vaapad it was more by circumstance. Departure was sent to act as a general to a key planet that would root out the separatists out of an entire system if it could have been taken. (it was also Mace's home Planet.) Once there, she slowly turned to the dark side after being constantly exposed to the fact that no matter what choice she made, people would die, and that for the sake of the war, she was going to have to choose who died to advance certain strategies or goals. As a jedi, raised believing that all life is sacred and worth saving, that was devastating.

[@roserichards1460]

Potential Vaapad practiners? I think you'd have to go back to some of the characters from the Old Republic. Namely anyone who was ever given permission to learn Juyo. One example coming to mind would be Revan. Now I well aware that he didn't show up till after Mace died but I believe, based off the lightside ending of the first game, Starkiller might have been able to. I also believe if he could learn it would actually helped to more completely come to the light. That being said I haven't played the second one so I don't know everything about him. However I believe he had the potential.